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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

Ok. I know this is going to sound extremely simplistic but I’m honestly confused here.

So, largely most people I encounter claim the largest weakness warrior has is staying power. Sustained healing, condi removal and such.

They give us Dotted March (One minor buff-as far as I can tell right now-to sustain, that’s extremely situational and more an anti CC than anything.)

And the rest is more DPS buffs?

DPS was never the issue with Warriors, boon hate or not, you could easily overpower bunkers with the extreme damage, it was just hard to stay while doing so without getting downed. Even blocks didn’t matter, because when they didn’t block, their HP melted.

Warriors need sustain, Anet gives them DPS? Don’t get me wrong, its great they finally acknowledge it needs improvement, and we haven’t got it bad this patch at all… I just…I’m confused.

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Posted by: Bearhugger.4326

Bearhugger.4326

Agreed. Warriors need better survivability, not better damage. We really should be able to bunker like guardians and elementalists if we want to trait that way.

To be honest though, Dotted March could be a step in the right direction if the healing is good enough. Also, if the increased passive effect of signets mean that Healing Signet heals more now, that could also be good news for survival.

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Posted by: Daecollo.9578

Daecollo.9578

I think they are buffing healing signet to 400.

Hero {} Roleplayer {} Friend {} Professional Princess Saver
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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

I wish warrios had a trait like selfless Daring :X

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

It will be interesting to see how what the regen proc is like on the dogged march trait and what the ICD is on it.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

Agreed. Warriors need better survivability, not better damage. We really should be able to bunker like guardians and elementalists if we want to trait that way.

If you bunker like elementalist, you get nerfed.

Frankly, I think they did give Warrior a form of sustain. Mobility is huge in keeping you alive and Dogged March sounds like it could really help you out. That plus Mobile Strikes, Restorative Strength or Warhorn and you’re pretty slippery. With confusion not being quite the instant death sentence (although the times I tried a few hotjoins I still got ate up by it), some endurance refills from sigil/bursts and you could do some great roaming. With War ranged options you can be deadly from a distance. If you had trouble nailing down elementalists before, you may have an easier time now.

I say you have to take in what you get and what everyone else gets too. What I’m more excited about is their mention of looking at other uses for adrenaline and bursts. Or did you forget they mentioned that? War needs more tricks, IMO, rather than sustain.

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Posted by: Dolan.3071

Dolan.3071

The regen will be garbage, we’re warriors, just look at shout healing, I get healed more whenever a passing Elementalist feels me up.
Spearing through people’s blocks sounds good but sacrificing a utility just doesn’t seem worth it, I’d rather watch for the blocks, bait them out if need be, and strike when they are vulnerable.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a step in the right direction, a very, very small step. I can only hope that in a nearby patch they go through and read the tooltips and understand just what it is these skills are meant to do. Endure Pain, Shield Block, Rush – to name a few, none of these do what the tooltip indicates.

Uriel Asther ~ Warrior | Kaya Lereau ~ Elementalist | Natalie Fox ~ Thief
Skye Eterna ~ Mesmer | Arya Slade ~ Charrdian | Kiera Thine ~ Ranger
Oceanic ~ [LOD] [Noob]

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Posted by: Sannhet.8745

Sannhet.8745

What is dogged march? I must have missed this.

Also @ Dolan – If your shout heals aren’t outhealing a random Elementalist with equal levels of healing power you’re doing it wrong. Elementalists sustain isn’t from burst heals (i.e. Shout heals) it’s from constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration. You’re comparing apples to bananas.

EDIT: Nvm found Dogged March. Seems pretty good but would be better with no ICD.

(edited by Sannhet.8745)

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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

@Leo G

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t know yet because we haven’t tried. I just found the additional damage to be useless somewhat. I’ve never in all my time playing a warrior thought “Hmmm. You know, I need more damage.” Whether fighting a full boon bunker or not.

I hope some of the coming changes are really good. I’d love to have warrior stand up as a duelist class now because of the cool tricks they could add to adrenaline like you said.

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Posted by: Lalangamena.3694

Lalangamena.3694

I wish warrios had a trait like selfless Daring :X

there is, it just does 1K damage on dodge instead of 1K heal

also, the OP is correct, this is the reason i don’t get Anet…. warrior damage is fine, really…
“boon hate” why warriors need it?

they better implement a trait which have more sense for a discipline tree. that goes something like that:

“walking on the edge”
burst skills damage increased for each condition the warrior have (3% for each condition)
burst skill removes the conditions and grant 1 sec of stability for each adrenalin bar (1/2/3 ) etc

this is a good grand-master trait with new meta of adrenalin and conditions management
the warrior will have a new choice: use burst now make small damage and clear one condi, or wait for more conditions and adrenalin and do the “big hit”, risking your life….

(edited by Lalangamena.3694)

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Posted by: Forestgreen.7981

Forestgreen.7981

I wish warrios had a trait like selfless Daring :X

there is, it just does 1K damage on dodge instead of 1K heal

also, the OP is correct, this is the reason i don’t get Anet…. warrior damage is fine, really…
“boon hate” why warriors need it?

they better implement a trait which have more sense for a discipline tree. that goes something like that:

“walking on the edge”
burst skills damage increased for each condition the warrior have (3% for each condition)
burst skill removes the conditions and grant 1 sec of stability for each adrenalin bar (1/2/3 ) etc

this is a good grand-master trait with new meta of adrenalin and conditions management
the warrior will have a new choice: use burst now make small damage and clear one condi, or wait for more conditions and adrenalin and do the “big hit”, risking your life….

This would be very interesting change but atlas a-net doesn’t care, they made it 100% clear that warrior is their beat up class. They’ve made sure every other class can and will always beat a warrior and outclass him in every single way. From the responses we’ve gotten from them compared to the other classes is a joke. After this slight buff that won’t change a kitten thing except widen the margin in which a thief can now destroy a warrior by taking his SoR boons and walking all over him, expect the warrior untouched and left to die for the next 5 months.

I just want to thank A-net for making it clear from their half kitten responses that I should be playing an engineer not a warrior.

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Posted by: Bronther.7864

Bronther.7864

What is dogged march? I must have missed this.

Also @ Dolan – If your shout heals aren’t outhealing a random Elementalist with equal levels of healing power you’re doing it wrong. Elementalists sustain isn’t from burst heals (i.e. Shout heals) it’s from constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration. You’re comparing apples to bananas.

EDIT: Nvm found Dogged March. Seems pretty good but would be better with no ICD.

yea when i heard ICD i was like are you kidding me regen is still not good for us do to our health pools it should stack per CC or at least not five sec. But since you can with buffs you can get the reduced CC down to 98% it may be too much.

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Posted by: Sannhet.8745

Sannhet.8745

This would be very interesting change but atlas a-net doesn’t care, they made it 100% clear that warrior is their beat up class. They’ve made sure every other class can and will always beat a warrior and outclass him in every single way. From the responses we’ve gotten from them compared to the other classes is a joke. After this slight buff that won’t change a kitten thing except widen the margin in which a thief can now destroy a warrior by taking his SoR boons and walking all over him, expect the warrior untouched and left to die for the next 5 months.

I just want to thank A-net for making it clear from their half kitten responses that I should be playing an engineer not a warrior.

You do ofc realize that you’re complaining about engineers right? What’s next, necros?

Engineers finally have a halfway viable build and you’re honestly going to start QQing? Maybe MMOs just aren’t your thing.

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Posted by: Sami.1560

Sami.1560

My guess is that they don’t want Warriors to be a combat-sustainable class. If you look at the Warrior’s skills, the emphasis is very much “get in, burst, withdraw” (said the actress to the bishop). We get lots of stability (gets you in, keeps you in and allows you to run off), movement skills (get you in/out), traits which remove movement impairing effects (get in, get out) and of course balls-to-the-wall burst damage.

The issue was, getting in and getting out went up the kittenter when spam cripples are about and the burst damage isn’t anywhere near as good in PvP as it is in PvE/WvW due significantly reduced crit damage multiplier on PvP gear, so those defensive abilities/boons like blocking and protection cut out a lot of our damage, and the hits that do get through don’t hit hard enough to compensate.

Dogged March will let you get in/out easier. We asked for Mobile Strikes to remove all movement-impairing conditions, but instead we get a reduction on their duration instead (which is fine as Mobile Strikes still exists AND Dogged March will benefit weapons without movement skills).

Boon Hate will give up to a 27% damage increase (assuming everything hits), which is HUGE.

And finally, Signet of Might will allow you to burst super-defensive builds with more success. Of course SoM has a cooldown, so you’ll need to make sure you save it for the right fight.

Warriors won’t get sustain as that’s what Guardians and Necromancers are for. Remember: Get in, burst, withdraw. And try not to skitten.

Just expect more crying when people start posting even bigger Kill Shot numbers (in all seriousness, Boon Hate probably shouldn’t apply to the burst skills).

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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

Wait… So warrior is supposed to be the only class that can’t 1v1 because they’re supposed to go in, and get out? and can’t stay in a fight for too long.

That hardly seems fair, but maybe its just me.

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

Don’t worry OP, you’ll only be taking half damage now.

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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

Really? How?

/15 chars

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

Really? How?

/15 chars

You said you were confused…

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

Don’t worry OP, you’ll only be taking half damage now.

Really? How?

/15 chars

You said you were confused…

Applaud and salute well done!

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

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Posted by: Sami.1560

Sami.1560

Wait… So warrior is supposed to be the only class that can’t 1v1 because they’re supposed to go in, and get out? and can’t stay in a fight for too long.

That hardly seems fair, but maybe its just me.

Consider it more hit and run tactics. If it’s 1v1, you need to unload as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time. If it works, great. If it doesn’t, run. Some 1vs take ages to resolve. Warriors will be decided one way or another pretty quickly.

And of course, this game isn’t about 1v1s. Get a couple of Warriors working together (coordinating unblockable bursts) and things will drop very quickly.

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Posted by: AlBundy.7851

AlBundy.7851

warrior damage needs to go up then lol if we’re never going to see any type of sustain improvements which in turn will just upset the community more which is how we got nerfed in the 1st place lol

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Posted by: Lyonell.1753

Lyonell.1753

I been rolling warrior since beta times and I am very happy with the extra damage we are getting. I find warrior’s survivability to be spot on. We aren’t absurd like guardians and elementalist but we don’t die like paper either. Well this comes from my point of view which doesn’t include berserk builds. I think that’s exactly why most people complain about warriors, every warrior I seen as of late rushes me with a great sword and attempts to take me down in one hb/whirlwind combo, then when that fails and they die within seconds they blame the class lol.

I find myself living through hella damage in WvW, spvp wise some builds completely counter me but that’s mainly because warrior lacks mobility so more mobility = more success as a warrior and more damage = way more success as a none glass cannon warrior.

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Posted by: PistolWhip.2697

PistolWhip.2697

Really? How?

/15 chars

You said you were confused…

LOL! Wow. Well played sir.

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Posted by: gfox.6501

gfox.6501

been playing a PVT hammer warrior since the first BWE and I wish we had more sustainability in combat (In the beta, 25 sec CD shouts was 20 sec CD, and shout healing felt sustainable, when traited, though I don’t want shout healing to be the mechanic for sustainable defense, that would be stupid). I don’t mean ‘toughness’ or damage reduction, but recovering hp. I see all other ‘bunker’ builds being able to keep their HP topped up in fights and prolong fights as long as they want. Heck, thieves who are pure DPS builds can keep their HP topped up in fights if they really play defensively. But us warriors will eventually see our HP hit 0 regardless of whether we’re built for DPS, Defense, or Healing, unless we decide to just disengage and runaway completely.

This is just my opinion, though.

(edited by gfox.6501)

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Posted by: TheGuy.3568

TheGuy.3568

been playing a PVT hammer warrior since the first BWE and I wish we had more sustainability in combat (In the beta, 25 sec CD shouts was 20 sec CD, and shout healing felt sustainable, when traited, though I don’t want shout healing to be the mechanic for sustainable defense, that would be stupid). I don’t mean ‘toughness’ or damage reduction, but recovering hp. I see all other ‘bunker’ builds being able to keep their HP topped up in fights and prolong fights as long as they want. Heck, thieves who are pure DPS builds can keep their HP topped up in fights if they really play defensively. But us warriors will eventually see our HP hit 0 regardless of whether we’re built for DPS, Defense, or Healing, unless we decide to just disengage and runaway completely.

This is just my opinion, though.

Honestly I feel what your saying since I play shouts As far as bunkers go you are right. However, most do have to create some type of separation to keep going. The somewhat sad part is that our bunker really isn’t there. In S/T pvp its just not possible. In Wv3 there are ways to get up there but none of it is sustainable. The main thing i took away is that the dps heavy conditions we cant deal with now we won’t be able to deal with later. Our actual condition management has been wept under the rug yet again.

Kor The Cold Heart War
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele

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Posted by: gfox.6501

gfox.6501

been playing a PVT hammer warrior since the first BWE and I wish we had more sustainability in combat (In the beta, 25 sec CD shouts was 20 sec CD, and shout healing felt sustainable, when traited, though I don’t want shout healing to be the mechanic for sustainable defense, that would be stupid). I don’t mean ‘toughness’ or damage reduction, but recovering hp. I see all other ‘bunker’ builds being able to keep their HP topped up in fights and prolong fights as long as they want. Heck, thieves who are pure DPS builds can keep their HP topped up in fights if they really play defensively. But us warriors will eventually see our HP hit 0 regardless of whether we’re built for DPS, Defense, or Healing, unless we decide to just disengage and runaway completely.

This is just my opinion, though.

Honestly I feel what your saying since I play shouts As far as bunkers go you are right. However, most do have to create some type of separation to keep going. The somewhat sad part is that our bunker really isn’t there. In S/T pvp its just not possible. In Wv3 there are ways to get up there but none of it is sustainable. The main thing i took away is that the dps heavy conditions we cant deal with now we won’t be able to deal with later. Our actual condition management has been wept under the rug yet again.

I haven’t played shout warrior for a while, because it really doesn’t seem to work for what I want it to do, but part of a warrior’s survival and sustainability seems to come from putting pressure to the enemy, while other bunkers can keep their sustainability up just by playing very defensively (creating separation).

Now, the problem this creates for us is it becomes increasingly difficult to deal with more than one opponent, defensively, because there’s really no way we can put pressure on 2 or more targets to prolong our survival, compared to the more ‘reactive’ strategy other bunkers employ, where they simply look at what’s being thrown at them from whichever source, and activate the appropriate defensive move.

(edited by gfox.6501)