Guild Wars 2

Dempsey.8760:

Daecollo.9578:

Dempsey.8760:

i just read a couple above posts.

1st Guardian especially 5 is not more dps than even just 3 warriors.
2nd Warriors should already be taking banners as disc provides at the very least a 10% damage buff to the group, while str is around 8-10%. Im not saying that if you’re the only warrior you need to use both, but at the very least disc.

I still disagree with battle standard though, it is mainly a PvP skill for its hard res ability and it generates swiftness a usekitten on during boss encounters. Sure fury and might are great for the group as a whole but again it is not always up for every fight, unless your group has very low dps, in which case standard probably isn’t going to see its full potential anyways.

Think about your statement, then laugh at yourself.

Guardians really arn’t as kitten as you think they are, they can actually have quite scary DPS.

I don’t think guardians are crap, the guild i run with DnT might have heard of us. Runs full zerk guards, because they do have good dps. But they still even at full dps spec only have 3/4 of a warriors, and even then it just comes down to how good the warrior is at his/her rotation.

And really 5 guardians do not have enough fury uptime that 3 warriors do, they might be able to keep 25 might and vuln, but fury would be the biggest killer on their dps.

That’s why you bring one warrior and 4 guardians. Because, you know, warrior is better as support than as raw DPS. No one’s saying to just blindly bring raw DPS with no support.

Look at it this way. Say Guardians hypothetically deals 10k DPS. Warriors deal 9k but also provides a non-stacking 10% to everyone. Now you can either:

1) Stack 5 guardians, getting 10k DPS each and 50k total.
2) Stack 5 warriors, getting 9.9k DPS each, or 49.5k total.
3) Stack 4 guardians and bring a warrior, getting 11k per guardian and 9.9k per warrior. Total: 53.9k.
4) Run with the guys in this thread who refuse to take banners, likely failing the dungeon, so DPS doesn’t matter.

Choice is obvious to me.

i always take banner of discipline in groups and run between fights with it for swiftness also, but i wont take more than 1 banner unless i build around around that concept (and i dont currently) i personally find for great justice to be worth more than a 2nd banner, and then 3rd utility is a stun breaker because as a glass cannon build that can be quite vital

^ Balanced Stance, For Great Justice , Banner of Discipline are the utilities I tend to take. Though I will swap out Balanced Stance if I know there’s no CC in the next battle.

Dempsey.8760:

Daecollo.9578:

Dempsey.8760:

i just read a couple above posts.

1st Guardian especially 5 is not more dps than even just 3 warriors.
2nd Warriors should already be taking banners as disc provides at the very least a 10% damage buff to the group, while str is around 8-10%. Im not saying that if you’re the only warrior you need to use both, but at the very least disc.

I still disagree with battle standard though, it is mainly a PvP skill for its hard res ability and it generates swiftness a usekitten on during boss encounters. Sure fury and might are great for the group as a whole but again it is not always up for every fight, unless your group has very low dps, in which case standard probably isn’t going to see its full potential anyways.

Think about your statement, then laugh at yourself.

Guardians really arn’t as kitten as you think they are, they can actually have quite scary DPS.

I don’t think guardians are crap, the guild i run with DnT might have heard of us. Runs full zerk guards, because they do have good dps. But they still even at full dps spec only have 3/4 of a warriors, and even then it just comes down to how good the warrior is at his/her rotation.

And really 5 guardians do not have enough fury uptime that 3 warriors do, they might be able to keep 25 might and vuln, but fury would be the biggest killer on their dps.

Can you provide some math with that? I’m curious because as I would see it, if a Guardian can get 100% fury uptime and might stackage from his teammates, then his DPS should be on par with a warrior’s, even when taking rotations into account. And if we’re considering perfect scenarios, a Guardian should be able to outDPS a warrior because smite.

I say “should” because I do not have the concrete numbers but rather some rough estimates and educated guesses, if you could provide some hard math that would be great.

lmaonade.9207:

Dempsey.8760:

Daecollo.9578:

Dempsey.8760:

i just read a couple above posts.

1st Guardian especially 5 is not more dps than even just 3 warriors.
2nd Warriors should already be taking banners as disc provides at the very least a 10% damage buff to the group, while str is around 8-10%. Im not saying that if you’re the only warrior you need to use both, but at the very least disc.

I still disagree with battle standard though, it is mainly a PvP skill for its hard res ability and it generates swiftness a usekitten on during boss encounters. Sure fury and might are great for the group as a whole but again it is not always up for every fight, unless your group has very low dps, in which case standard probably isn’t going to see its full potential anyways.

Think about your statement, then laugh at yourself.

Guardians really arn’t as kitten as you think they are, they can actually have quite scary DPS.

I don’t think guardians are crap, the guild i run with DnT might have heard of us. Runs full zerk guards, because they do have good dps. But they still even at full dps spec only have 3/4 of a warriors, and even then it just comes down to how good the warrior is at his/her rotation.

And really 5 guardians do not have enough fury uptime that 3 warriors do, they might be able to keep 25 might and vuln, but fury would be the biggest killer on their dps.

Can you provide some math with that? I’m curious because as I would see it, if a Guardian can get 100% fury uptime and might stackage from his teammates, then his DPS should be on par with a warrior’s, even when taking rotations into account. And if we’re considering perfect scenarios, a Guardian should be able to outDPS a warrior because smite.

I say “should” because I do not have the concrete numbers but rather some rough estimates and educated guesses, if you could provide some hard math that would be great.

I did that crunch a little while ago on Guru. Let me paste it.

The current GS warrior build (20/25/0/10/20) is 10k/s even with literally everything stacked (banner, consumables, might, vuln, etc.). Axe with the same build is about 9k. Plug in the new traits and do 30/0/0/10/30 and you get 9.3k/s for the axe, and about 9.7k for the greatsword if you go 30/25/0/15/0. By comparison, the guardian sits at a cozy 9.5k/s with greatsword and about 10k with scepter. It’s a bit harder to forecast the damage numbers with a swap rotation involved but I can estimate it at around 11k/s for the warrior using the current swap rotation and 10.4k/s for the guardian with a sword offhand.

This means that with the new patch, the warrior’s damage ranges from about 9.3k/s (axe) steady to 9.7k/s ideal (GS against wall), while the guardian pretty much stays constant between 10.4k/s constant (sword/GS rotation) and 11.5k/s ideal (scepter/GS rotation).

Incidentally, I’m getting 9.4k/s across the board for Engineers in the same situation, in case you were wondering why you’d want to take an Engineer, the easy 10+ stacks of might and 25 vuln notwithstanding.

I had a disclaimer last time I posted those numbers, but I can post it again here. About 15% of the warrior’s overall DPS comes from being able to get four hits from Whirlwind Attack (i.e. against a wall or chilled or immobilized) and two hits from Bladetrail (there is enough room behind the target that the projectile can fly full distance and come back. Both of these are actually pretty rare, Bladetrail usually hits some environmental obstruction (usually a wall) and you don’t always have the opponent against a wall to whirl against. That means the average warrior greatsword DPS is actually about 8.5k/s, compared to the guardian’s DPS at a steady 9.5k.

And before you start getting excited about the axe numbers being higher than the greatsword’s, axe is reliant on getting might from external sources, while greatsword builds it up much faster on its own, so the latter is still better in pugs.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Oh, and ALWAYS take Battle Standard. It is worth about 70 seconds of Fury and 3 stacks of might and more imporantly, the boon application stacks.

Oh, and that applies to Empower Allies, too.

i only use battle standard in the ascalonian fractal. just to revive the NPCs wiped clean by the boss.
the recharge timer is far too long.

i can use the discipline banner to give perma fury to my team mates anyway and our guardian, plus warrior long bow combustion shot f1 and various blast finishers can give us perma 25 might.

150 from empower allies is a nice buff though. that is like perma 4 stacks of might minus the bonus condition damage.

I use a disc and/or strength banner only when the fight will be long and confined (e.g. the holding area in the uncategorized fractal and the waves of dredge that spawn from the vehicle in the underground facility fractal). Other than that, no banners.

I play my warrior in big battles against enemyzergs in wvw usually.
If I would waste every skillslot for banners, who would help me out, when I am immobilized, while I’m standing in a storm of damage coming over me? And who could I help with the battlestandart, when I am downed or dead? Beside the fact, that I’m not skilled for banners in any way.
Like every build and every class it depends on the situation we are going to be in. Like I describe it as a waste of skillslots in wvw it might be perfect for dungeons or smallscale pvp.

spoj.9672:

Dolan.3071:

Ironically today I had a Warrior that used all Banners (including BoD which I had already claimed!) After the first mob he started whining at us to carry his banners, to which I responded with /laugh and off I went with my own banner in hand, the team ignoring him also… It is a huge inconvenience and an unreasonable thing to expect from a PuG. On another note, to be Warrior worth taking you should be clad in Berserker’s gear, without any utility you’re just as vulnerable as a rubbish Signet Warrior…
Also I would never touch another Warrior’s banner and it still kittens me off when people pick up mine. It’s like “No no no, you are not helping, look at that you’re doing it all wrong, where’s the swiftness? We’re nearly at the next mob where’s that fury? And you didn’t even use the Rush, see I’d be there by now, useless you are!” …. I can be a very vocal player.

Found it amusing that you act so elitest when using an awful build.

Spoj, Meet dolan.