Guild Wars 2

Lighter.5631:

who cares about healing, the point of this game is to prevent from getting hit not healing..

I absolutely agree with this. People need to realize that healing is only to fix the mistake you have done not the core of the combat itself.

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

Daecollo.9578:

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

I would definitely agree on that, but you must also consider that both guardian and thief have low health which is being compensate by healing for guardian and evading or stealth for thief. Guardian also die very quickly from condition.

As far as I play my warrior, as long you are not running on full zerker and without any descent condition removal skill the healing never been any problem to me. Every other profession will also die very quickly if you use full zerker, even guardian due to their low health. Also as far as I know warrior has the best combination of high health and high defence at default.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

I would definitely agree on that, but you must also consider that both guardian and thief have low health which is being compensate by healing for guardian and evading or stealth for thief. Guardian also die very quickly from condition.

As far as I play my warrior, as long you are not running on full zerker and without any descent condition removal skill the healing never been any problem to me. Every other profession will also die very quickly if you use full zerker, even guardian due to their low health. Also as far as I know warrior has the best combination of high health and high defence at default.

And Guardian and Thief have better traits. Thieves can get 18% critical chance from being behind the target, Guardians can get 15% from just having a one hander equipted, they also have way better class abilities.

To get 30% Critical Damage, Guardian only has to put points in there Survivability tree, so they pretty much get best of both worlds. Thieves have it stuffed in there best tree as well.

They also both have way better condition removal traits as well, Thieves can remove 2 conditions every 5 seconds with stealth, and Guardian can remove 2 every 10 seconds passive, with better traits.

8k Health does not make up for 600-800 in other stats. Warriors do not have good traits, and we have the worst class mechanic (brawn.)

That one trait thief has can equal 378 precision. The one trait guardian has can equal 315 precision. They simply have more powerful traits.

A Warrior “Must have” 20 points in there discipline tree, this may as well be -200 stats because brawn is worthless.

Daecollo.9578:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

I would definitely agree on that, but you must also consider that both guardian and thief have low health which is being compensate by healing for guardian and evading or stealth for thief. Guardian also die very quickly from condition.

As far as I play my warrior, as long you are not running on full zerker and without any descent condition removal skill the healing never been any problem to me. Every other profession will also die very quickly if you use full zerker, even guardian due to their low health. Also as far as I know warrior has the best combination of high health and high defence at default.

And Guardian and Thief have better traits. Thieves can get 18% critical chance from being behind the target, Guardians can get 15% from just having a one hander equipted, they also have way better class abilities.

To get 30% Critical Damage, Guardian only has to put points in there Survivability tree, so they pretty much get best of both worlds. Thieves have it stuffed in there best tree as well.

They also both have way better condition removal traits as well, Thieves can remove 2 conditions every 5 seconds with stealth, and Guardian can remove 2 every 10 seconds passive, with better traits.

8k Health does not make up for 600-800 in other stats. Warriors do not have good traits, and we have the worst class mechanic (brawn.)

That one trait thief has can equal 378 precision. The one trait guardian has can equal 315 precision. They simply have more powerful traits.

A Warrior “Must have” 20 points in there discipline tree, this may as well be -200 stats because brawn is worthless.

You mentioned the thing that I hate about the current trait system since BWE. The fact that they lock attribute points with trait skill tree is very stupid, it limits the potential of a build because some of the attribute points will go to waste. For example, if you are running a zerker build warrior 300 condition point will not be able to improve you in any chance if you take 300 points in the second trait skill tree to get more precision for trying to get the benefit from the trait itself. They should separate attribute points from trait skill tree so we can spend it in the area we actually need.

But I won’t agree with you with guardian having better trait than warrior. You have a trait that can convert condition into boon with your warhorn and they even have low cool down and affect ally as well. Also getting might from getting crit from great sword is ridiculous, you can get an uptime 25 stack of might with little effort especially with the help of sigil of strength.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

I would definitely agree on that, but you must also consider that both guardian and thief have low health which is being compensate by healing for guardian and evading or stealth for thief. Guardian also die very quickly from condition.

As far as I play my warrior, as long you are not running on full zerker and without any descent condition removal skill the healing never been any problem to me. Every other profession will also die very quickly if you use full zerker, even guardian due to their low health. Also as far as I know warrior has the best combination of high health and high defence at default.

And Guardian and Thief have better traits. Thieves can get 18% critical chance from being behind the target, Guardians can get 15% from just having a one hander equipted, they also have way better class abilities.

To get 30% Critical Damage, Guardian only has to put points in there Survivability tree, so they pretty much get best of both worlds. Thieves have it stuffed in there best tree as well.

They also both have way better condition removal traits as well, Thieves can remove 2 conditions every 5 seconds with stealth, and Guardian can remove 2 every 10 seconds passive, with better traits.

8k Health does not make up for 600-800 in other stats. Warriors do not have good traits, and we have the worst class mechanic (brawn.)

That one trait thief has can equal 378 precision. The one trait guardian has can equal 315 precision. They simply have more powerful traits.

A Warrior “Must have” 20 points in there discipline tree, this may as well be -200 stats because brawn is worthless.

You mentioned the thing that I hate about the current trait system since BWE. The fact that they lock attribute points with trait skill tree is very stupid, it limits the potential of a build because some of the attribute points will go to waste. For example, if you are running a zerker build warrior 300 condition point will not be able to improve you in any chance if you take 300 points in the second trait skill tree to get more precision for trying to get the benefit from the trait itself. They should separate attribute points from trait skill tree so we can spend it in the area we actually need.

But I won’t agree with you with guardian having better trait than warrior. You have a trait that can convert condition into boon with your warhorn and they even have low cool down and affect ally as well. Also getting might from getting crit from great sword is ridiculous, you can get an uptime 25 stack of might with little effort especially with the help of sigil of strength.

Yes, but you mentioned Stats in itself, if we get the greatsword tree for example we spar 25 trait points into it. That is also 250 condition damage. This stat is absolutely useless to a greatsword warrior.

Also we need 20 in discipline, since its a requirement, that is another 200 in stats lost.

That is -450 stat points. 250 condition damage is useless to a greatsword warrior/2% brawn is useless.

That is 4500 in health if you think about it, Guardian traits are set up well enough where almost no trait point is wasted.

Daecollo.9578:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Daecollo.9578:

This isn’t about evades, this subject is about Warriors needing better healing. Which many agree with because we currently have horrible means to sustain ourselves.

We are not an evade class and we do not have access to a lot of dodge moves and Vigor or blinds. So we do not have that option of evading damage.

I would definitely agree on that, but you must also consider that both guardian and thief have low health which is being compensate by healing for guardian and evading or stealth for thief. Guardian also die very quickly from condition.

As far as I play my warrior, as long you are not running on full zerker and without any descent condition removal skill the healing never been any problem to me. Every other profession will also die very quickly if you use full zerker, even guardian due to their low health. Also as far as I know warrior has the best combination of high health and high defence at default.

And Guardian and Thief have better traits. Thieves can get 18% critical chance from being behind the target, Guardians can get 15% from just having a one hander equipted, they also have way better class abilities.

To get 30% Critical Damage, Guardian only has to put points in there Survivability tree, so they pretty much get best of both worlds. Thieves have it stuffed in there best tree as well.

They also both have way better condition removal traits as well, Thieves can remove 2 conditions every 5 seconds with stealth, and Guardian can remove 2 every 10 seconds passive, with better traits.

8k Health does not make up for 600-800 in other stats. Warriors do not have good traits, and we have the worst class mechanic (brawn.)

That one trait thief has can equal 378 precision. The one trait guardian has can equal 315 precision. They simply have more powerful traits.

A Warrior “Must have” 20 points in there discipline tree, this may as well be -200 stats because brawn is worthless.

You mentioned the thing that I hate about the current trait system since BWE. The fact that they lock attribute points with trait skill tree is very stupid, it limits the potential of a build because some of the attribute points will go to waste. For example, if you are running a zerker build warrior 300 condition point will not be able to improve you in any chance if you take 300 points in the second trait skill tree to get more precision for trying to get the benefit from the trait itself. They should separate attribute points from trait skill tree so we can spend it in the area we actually need.

But I won’t agree with you with guardian having better trait than warrior. You have a trait that can convert condition into boon with your warhorn and they even have low cool down and affect ally as well. Also getting might from getting crit from great sword is ridiculous, you can get an uptime 25 stack of might with little effort especially with the help of sigil of strength.

Yes, but you mentioned Stats in itself, if we get the greatsword tree for example we spar 25 trait points into it. That is also 250 condition damage. This stat is absolutely useless to a greatsword warrior.

Also we need 20 in discipline, since its a requirement, that is another 200 in stats lost.

That is -450 stat points. 250 condition damage is useless to a greatsword warrior/2% brawn is useless.

That is 4500 in health if you think about it, Guardian traits are set up well enough where almost no trait point is wasted.

I still prefer thief trait skill tree though.
Per+crit dmg how good is that?

Tough+crit dmg actually doesn’t work really good if you don’t have sufficient precision, especially on pure guardian tank build.

PistolWhip.2697:

@osif

Honestly, If warriors could have nearly as much sustain and staying power as a guardian, I’d gladly sacrifice Killshot. Please, take it. Its terrible in a lot of fights in my experience, then again I find it easy to evade because I’ve played warrior enough to know the animation to the teeth even in group fights, in zergs I get caught yes, but if all you’re using is rifle in zerg fights, that is questionable I’d say.

So honestly, take my kill shot, and give me some of what Guardian’s have thank you.

The only terrible situation for kill shot is 1v1. I never run in zergs, I run with a 5 man group for the most part. Nothing will match a rifle warrior in burst damage in a group setup. I don’t disagree with the OP, I think warriors could use a better heal. Maybe a % of our hp since we run such hi hp. But, warriors are a very strong class which some people in this thread seem to think differently.

*New Healing mechanic: *
Healing per damage done. 1% of damage done to targets converted to healing no your self/group then take it from there to achieve a good balance.
This way you utilize the warriors dps into something useful and help us last against condition classes.

Introduce gap closing mechanic:
Thieves have shadow step with no cooldown on their sword though they don’t need it with the stealth mechanic and 25% movement speed. The least that can be done is give us a fast gap closer on all melee weapons. The buggy GS 5 won’t do. It is very slow, can be interrupted or dodged. It is also buggy. Give us a ground target AOE gap closer like shadowstep. Introduce pulls such as scorpion wire.

*Introduce Warrior forms: *
Being Able to switch forms during combat helps with increasing complexity to class and rewarding skilled play.
Suggestions off the top of my head for forms:
Will revitalize the class increasing its player base.
Form X: increasing all damage dealt and reducing all damage received by X%.
Form Y: increasing all condition damage dealt and reducing all condition damage received by X%.
Form Z: Helpful for ranged or helpful for being mobile.
Or just defensive form, offensive form, mobile form.

Add useful reactive buffs: Stability or protection:
We need protection. Toughness/vitality melts against burst dps/condi as opposed to protection. Eles, guardians and rangers are more tanky than us. Don’t be afraid to balance the scales.

New Debuffs:
Your criticals immobilize. Snare is useless as it can be dodged out of etc. Chill as well. Weakness on critical.

I’d honestly just be happy with Mending on 20 seconds.

But if I were to add a new healing skill, it would probably be:
[Enrage] 20 second cooldown
Heal yourself for X and gain 2 stacks of might (5 seconds) for each condition you posses.

If Anet’s goal isn’t to make Warriors better at removing conditions, at least let us turn it against our opponents.

Daecollo.9578:

I actually think Guardian has more unpredictable easier to hit offense and outshines warrior in PvP for Damage, they’re damage is mostly unavoidable whereas warriors can be avoided by a simple blind or moving our of the way.

Then that should be what is improved on the Warrior, not face-roll healing. Give Warrior more cases of tougher to avoid counters and active defenses and you relieve some of the need to heal more and you suddenly have a class with a higher skill ceiling.

- kill shot same animation as auto-attack, no crouching and can be done on the move
- hundred blades causes distortion like blurred frenzy
- mending removes all conditions, rest same
- trait for +50% damage on immobilised targets for that “burst class” feel

xiv.7136:

- kill shot same animation as auto-attack, no crouching and can be done on the move
- hundred blades causes distortion like blurred frenzy
- mending removes all conditions, rest same
- trait for +50% damage on immobilised targets for that “burst class” feel

That wouldn’t be imbalanced at all haha.

@osif

I’ve never been caught with a Killshot on my squishy classes. Most I’ve had done to me with one was about 7k I believe, long ago, on my guardian nonetheless. I suppose its down to most groups my guild group coming across not being pressuring enough to use up our evades to avoid Killshot, but generally most warriors become useless for 2 seconds and sit there crouched, get evaded then switch sets. Its subjective sure, but then Kill shot isn’t an inherently good, or bad skill, its just the application of it. Warrior sustain is inherently bad due to reasons you’ve stated yourself, that is all that is being discussed here I believe, or the intention after all.

There are probably reasons most people don’t consider for why warriors are so easy to counter. But that’s the thing, they are a strong class… But every class just has such nice counters to them, that it is almost like they cater to countering them specifically.

nicknamenick.2437:

XII.9401:

*New Healing mechanic: *
Healing per damage done. 1% of damage done to targets converted to healing no your self/group then take it from there to achieve a good balance.
This way you utilize the warriors dps into something useful and help us last against condition classes.

1%? so if i use a full 100b (spend bull’s charge + frenzy) and i do like 10k damage.
I will get 100 health in total.

Lol yeah that would save us :-P
Maby 5%? and than it’s still low. (edit: would be too OP btw if you count more targets, in PVE this will be too OP i think)

The mechanic is what I’m suggesting. The percentage is valid if you have dots ticking continuously. SWTOR had only 1% healing from bleeds up all the time and the player was difficult to take down.

Suggest a low number>>devs think its smarter to go for a high number>>what I wanted originally :p. But thanks for ruining my evil plan.

But I think that mechanic would be the most valid. If its based on regular damage from melee it would be useless due to the fact that you have to land those attacks. Condition builds might benefit more form it. That would make the sword builds more valid.

I don’t want to add any new ideas but this is why I think Anet hesitates to buff the warrior sustain (healing skills, traits, etc):

If warriors would have as much sustain as let’s say an ele (percentage wise) they would be the ultimate tanks and that’s something they don’t want after all the complaints about bunker eles.

Why would a warrior be that good then?

You can’t burst him since he has a really high HP pool and toughness (that’s how you can counter ele/guardian bunkers).

You can’t kill him with conditions since this would take ages and he can remove them (that’s how you can counter most other bunker builds).

If you somehow manage to get him low he could heal back to full HP (like an ele) and you would need to burst 20k+ HP with high toughness again. Good luck doing that.

Healing skills which scale with HP are a terrible idea imo because it would not make sense.

• If you have low HP and a lot of healing power you can be bursted but if you don’t die fast you will have a lot of sustain. (low HP = high sustain)

• On the other hand if you have high HP and low healing power you can’t be bursted but you don’t have sustain. (high HP = low sustain)

• If Anet would implement a healing skill which scales with HP it would be too strong. You can’t be bursted and you have the sustain for long fights which means you won’t be killed on equal skill level. Besides that healing power would have no use for those builds. (high HP = high sustain)

Don’t get me wrong. The warrior definitely needs more sustain. Healing skills scaling with HP won’t happen though imo because of the reasons mentioned above. You can’t expect them to have as much sustain as eles/guardians but I think slightly better sustain (which also includes condition removal) would improve their current PvP situation a lot.

Toughness doesn’t matter much past 2750 (Armor.) Protection more then doubles your damage reduction.

2750 Armor = (33% Damage Reduction.) Protection = (33% Damage Reduction.), Signet of Judgment (10-15% Damage Reduction.)

Guardian may have 10.2k base HP, however they have better traits (Much better traits that make up in stats for more then the health they lose.) Plus they have better trait allocation. There toughness tree gives them pretty much everything they need, there toughness tree alone is better then all 5 warrior trees combined for trait power/trait allocation.

Guardians can spent all there points into DPS and have 6/8 the DPS of a Zerker Warrior, however Warrior can spend all points into survivability and only have 1/4 the sustain a guardian can.

This isn’t fair. Warriors need more options for healing/condition removal. Such as: Convert One Condition into a boon when you gain a BAR of adrenaline: This promotes active and smart play, something the dev’s like and want.

Warriors may have a 700 Vitality difference, however if you take into the account the warrior /must/ sacrifice 20 points in discipline (-200 in stats because brawn is useless.) and has worse traits. (The warrior has a trait alone that gives +15% Critical Chance, that is 315 in precision. one of there traits, altruistic healing heals for almost 400-500 HPS, that is a /trait/ that heals for almost 2-3x more then our healing spells per second.) They also have virtues and way better boons and group buffs.

Would you rather have high healing/high armor/low health. Or low healing/low armor/high health?

Lets just say both had 2750 Armor.

Warrior:
Damage Reduction: 33%. (Traited Maximum.)
Health: 18,372
Healing: Low-Med
Condition Removal: Poor, must use outside sources to compensate. (Gear/Runes/Sigils.)

Guardian:
Damage Reduction: 81% (Traited Maximum.)
Health: 10,805
Healing: High-Very High.
Condition Removal: Very High, does not need anything else to compensate.

Who wins?

I know about the protection problem but I didn’t want to mention it here since it is a trait problem instead of a healing skill problem.

Maybe you should create a thread for the problem (just in case nobody did that yet) to keep the 2 topics separated.