Guild Wars 2

adozu.6398:

i hear thieves were also supposed to be Squishy McBurst and mesmers were originally intended to work.

when people make threads about warriors being OP, you have a lot of warriors who trip out and rage like they have no idea why someone would post that (or assume the answer is the poster must be bad). it seems to elude a lot of wars that healing signet and cleansing ire are not okay.

when people make threads about the state of p/d thieves, even thieves agree that spec needs to get nerfed. same goes for PU mesmers (just look at all the mesmers AGAINST improving scepter with torment).

Raven.9603:

adozu.6398:

i hear thieves were also supposed to be Squishy McBurst and mesmers were originally intended to work.

when people make threads about warriors being OP, you have a lot of warriors who trip out and rage like they have no idea why someone would post that (or assume the answer is the poster must be bad). it seems to elude a lot of wars that healing signet and cleansing ire are not okay.

when people make threads about the state of p/d thieves, even thieves agree that spec needs to get nerfed. same goes for PU mesmers (just look at all the mesmers AGAINST improving scepter with torment).

This. ^

Again, I -main- a warrior.

I’m fine with actually doing damage with a burst for CI.

I also think HS is in a good place.

I can’t see why a hambow warrior should be allowed to reset every 7ish seconds for absolutely no reason other than he chooses to, even if he cant tag his opponent. This branches to other builds of course, but this is a glaring issue to me, in terms of that particular build.

The adrenaline rework is a HUGE blow.

I think warrior will be balanced, if not really weak, with this update.

“I can’t see why a hambow warrior should be allowed to reset every 7ish seconds for absolutely no reason other than he chooses to, even if he cant tag his opponent. This branches to other builds of course, but this is a glaring issue to me, in terms of that particular build.”

except hambow is still going to reset pretty easily, but what about warriors whitout longbow or that use hard bursts like skull crack? what, no one runs whitout longbow or with a mace? exactly my point, the nerf is fair but it just shoves longobws even deeper down our throats. nerf adrenaline? ok, then compensate the already underpowered builds or we’ll end up with even less build diversity in pvp.

i used to play another game which i won’t mention where rogues were hated for their “perma stealth” builds in pvp. devs nerfed rogues so hard and so wrong that months later perma stealth was the only viable build left.

I’m a little lost as to how hard Skullcrack is to land compared to other bursts, given it has the shortest cast time of any of them. Maybe that’s just because I don’t run mace on my warrior (I prefer axe or sword). Does it root you in place while you’re casting it? If not, I don’t see how it’s so tough to land.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’m a little lost as to how hard Skullcrack is to land compared to other bursts, given it has the shortest cast time of any of them. Maybe that’s just because I don’t run mace on my warrior (I prefer axe or sword). Does it root you in place while you’re casting it? If not, I don’t see how it’s so tough to land.

Fight better players. Really.

it’s got a tell so obvious people could see it coming from the previous match.

and it’s not so much that it’s hard to land, that isn’t changing. it’s that it’s already pretty crappy whitout needing to build up your adrenaline back everytime you miss it (which is most of the time with decent opponents). some weapons simply deserve some compensations for the nerf.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

1. shrug it off
2. shake it off
3. Trooper runes (which turns FGJ/fearme/OMM into condi removal)
4. Melandru runes

1. Removes 1 condition on a 30s cooldown. Also it’s very easy to force Shrug it Off to trigger since it will automatically trigger if you have 2 conditions.
2. 25s cooldown for 1 condition doesn’t help.
3. Trooper Runes are only useful if you’re running a full shout build. And this means you have no Stability and no Berserker Stance. And running Trooper runes means you don’t get Melandru or Hoelbrak.
4. What do you think most people are already doing? Also it’s not a condi removal, just a flat damage reduction.

There’s lots of condi clear. There isnt much condi clear that lets you build full cc spec but the options are there.

More like there isn’t much condi clear that isn’t ridiculously easy to shut down by applying more than 1 condition.

There is just pretty much two problems with warriors and that is Berserker Stance and CI with LB.

The feature patch is going to put warriors in line in my opinion, at least in most parts. They just need to adress the problem with CI + LB.

And what comes to Berserker Stance. Complete immunity to condition for 8(10)s is too long. Either make it a bit shorter or make it like Endure Pain. You can still hit them with the conditions but they don’t have effect.

What this would mean is that you could still overload the warrior with conditions while warrior is in berserker stance, but warrior won’t take any damage from them or be hindered by the conditions. After the stance runs out they start to tick and effect like they should. This would probally be kinda hard to code, but could be interesting change to the mechanic of Berserker Stance.

It’s an utility that does nothing else than prevent new condis to be applied on you for 8 seconds every 60, you still take damage from anything you had already ticking. It used to be 4 seconds and it was entirely useless.

What’s the problem with it?

Besides endure pain is 4 seconds because burst builds attack on small windows of time and the harder they hit the more likely it is 4 seconds are enough to kill them if they don’t kite. Your average condition build should have no issues surviving 8 seconds if they don’t expect to facetank.

Is it a strong utility? yes, OP is kind of a stretch.

adozu.6398:

It’s an utility that does nothing else than prevent new condis to be applied on you for 8 seconds every 60, you still take damage from anything you had already ticking. It used to be 4 seconds and it was entirely useless.

What’s the problem with it?

Besides endure pain is 4 seconds because burst builds attack on small windows of time and the harder they hit the more likely it is 4 seconds are enough to kill them if they don’t kite. Your average condition build should have no issues surviving 8 seconds if they don’t expect to facetank.

Is it a strong utility? yes, OP is kind of a stretch.

This wasn’t probally ment towards me, but just to clarify I didn’t say that BS is OP, I was just saying it’s a bit problematic skill as is and it’s getting a small nerf (the adrenaline gain). And I don’t even personally use BS when I’m roaming in WvW.

And my change would make it work a bit different. With the said change you could deny the current conditions as they would not tick anymore, so it would make the activation more powerful but it would be more hard to leave it as you could be getting stacked with conditions during and they would all start to tick on you after the stance is over.

And I agree, 4 seconds duration would make the skill useless, but if it was 6 seconds it could be a bit more balanced if the mechanic is not changed.

balance:

high damage / high health, armor, sustain / slow as balls and easily kited
high damage / high mobility / low health, armor, sustain
high mobility / high health, armor, sustain / low damage

imbalance:

high damage / high mobility / high health, armor and sustain.

with melandru/holebrek, food, dogged march, healing sig, disproportionate base stats, eviscerate, CI, you really have to have your head in a hole not to create a warrior without drawbacks.

Paavotar.3971:

There is just pretty much two problems with warriors and that is Berserker Stance and CI with LB.

The feature patch is going to put warriors in line in my opinion, at least in most parts. They just need to adress the problem with CI + LB.

And what comes to Berserker Stance. Complete immunity to condition for 8(10)s is too long. Either make it a bit shorter or make it like Endure Pain. You can still hit them with the conditions but they don’t have effect.

What this would mean is that you could still overload the warrior with conditions while warrior is in berserker stance, but warrior won’t take any damage from them or be hindered by the conditions. After the stance runs out they start to tick and effect like they should. This would probally be kinda hard to code, but could be interesting change to the mechanic of Berserker Stance.

I don’t agree with the zerker stance nerf yet, in light of the new mesmer buffs. Let’s hold off on addressing that for now, there seems to be a gradual buffing to other classes to bring them into balance with what was considered “op” for warrior.

I’m also reconsidering the Longbow/CI synergy because of these buffs, as it will be the only viable means the warrior class has for surviving against a PU-build mesmer that skirts out of range.

The scales have shifted, slightly.

Raven.9603:

balance:

high damage / high health, armor, sustain / slow as balls and easily kited
high damage / high mobility / low health, armor, sustain
high mobility / high health, armor, sustain / low damage

imbalance:

high damage / high mobility / high health, armor and sustain.

---

with melandru/holebrek, food, dogged march, healing sig, disproportionate base stats, eviscerate, CI, you really have to have your head in a hole not to create a warrior without drawbacks.

Let me modify this a little and see what you think.

high damage / high mobility / high health, armor and sustain/ perpetually visible

med damage / med health/ high+ armor, sustain / slow as balls and easily kited/ perpetual visibility

high damage / high mobility / low health, armor, sustain / low visibility

high mobility / high health, armor, sustain / low damage / low visibility

I’d like to add that while the Warrior has:

• a high base pool
• a high armor class
• High damage in melee range
• High mobility

They also fight like blind elephants against anything that can disengage by stealthing.

Visibility is a combat advantage in this game, so at least in that area, disadvantage is ingrained.

With Eles having high sustain, Guardians having high sustain, other warriors having high sustain, and Necros having… urr… lich form, for 1v1s, I suppose, there’s a kind of complex balance going on that doesnt just boil down to armor class and how strong someone hits.

Does that make sense?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Paavotar.3971:

There is just pretty much two problems with warriors and that is Berserker Stance and CI with LB.

The feature patch is going to put warriors in line in my opinion, at least in most parts. They just need to adress the problem with CI + LB.

And what comes to Berserker Stance. Complete immunity to condition for 8(10)s is too long. Either make it a bit shorter or make it like Endure Pain. You can still hit them with the conditions but they don’t have effect.

What this would mean is that you could still overload the warrior with conditions while warrior is in berserker stance, but warrior won’t take any damage from them or be hindered by the conditions. After the stance runs out they start to tick and effect like they should. This would probally be kinda hard to code, but could be interesting change to the mechanic of Berserker Stance.

I don’t agree with the zerker stance nerf yet, in light of the new mesmer buffs. Let’s hold off on addressing that for now, there seems to be a gradual buffing to other classes to bring them into balance with what was considered “op” for warrior.

I’m also reconsidering the Longbow/CI synergy because of these buffs, as it will be the only viable means the warrior class has for surviving against a PU-build mesmer that skirts out of range.

The scales have shifted, slightly.

With almost any other company, I would say that Longbow+CI needs to go anyway and Warriors could take a short period of being a little weak while other anti-condition options get some buffs.

With ANet’s glacial balance speed, though…

I don’t really play warrior; my main is a mesmer. Also, I play shatter (20/20/0/0/30) with the staff/ sword+focus. The only issue I ever had with fighting warriors in spvp is that they could passively heal most of my damage without resorting to using endure pain pretty much ever. I can avoid the majority of the hammer skills, except the bursts skill, as long as I was in staff or had most of my skills off cooldown. However, once I start kitting with staff, they switch to LB destroy me with burns, my illusions die and they remove all of the conditions I put on them.

I think that healing signet should take a slight nerf to the passive effect and that the other healing skills need to be buffed to make them more viable compared to HS.

Tbh, I never really noticed how strong CI is since I play a burst build, but not being able to kill someone because they passively out-heal all the damage I throw at them needs to be addressed.

Raven.9603:

balance:

high damage / high health, armor, sustain / slow as balls and easily kited
high damage / high mobility / low health, armor, sustain
high mobility / high health, armor, sustain / low damage

imbalance:

high damage / high mobility / high health, armor and sustain.

---

with melandru/holebrek, food, dogged march, healing sig, disproportionate base stats, eviscerate, CI, you really have to have your head in a hole not to create a warrior without drawbacks.

What is this 30/30/30/30/30 build you are talking about?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Does that make sense?

Don’t scare them man.

Deano.5047:

I don’t really play warrior; my main is a mesmer. Also, I play shatter (20/20/0/0/30) with the staff/ sword+focus. The only issue I ever had with fighting warriors in spvp is that they could passively heal most of my damage without resorting to using endure pain pretty much ever. I can avoid the majority of the hammer skills, except the bursts skill, as long as I was in staff or had most of my skills off cooldown. However, once I start kitting with staff, they switch to LB destroy me with burns, my illusions die and they remove all of the conditions I put on them.

I think that healing signet should take a slight nerf to the passive effect and that the other healing skills need to be buffed to make them more viable compared to HS.

Tbh, I never really noticed how strong CI is since I play a burst build, but not being able to kill someone because they passively out-heal all the damage I throw at them needs to be addressed.

what does your build look like? I’ve met some mesmers that hit like they’re wearing pillows on their hands, and then some that absolutely melt my HP pool.

Certain it is the healing sig alone and probably not a very tanky build? Was he able to kill -you-?

I don’t mean to imply that your build isn’t what it should be, and passive outhealing is an issue, but we need to consider any factors we can before jumping to a nerf thatll affect warriors across the board.

Also remember that you guys will be buffed next patch and PrisUnder Mesmers are the bane of our existence

make stances 50% effective instead of total immunity that is all that is needed really then they cant go oh look im half health and you are half health pop stance now you cant do anything I can do everything and you cant stop me while I heal up. win

almost every other immunity has a downside apart from ranger (also needs to be looked at tbh) they usually prevent you from doing anything while they are up or block you from using your heals/utilities.

Raven.9603:

balance:

high damage / high health, armor, sustain / slow as balls and easily kited
high damage / high mobility / low health, armor, sustain
high mobility / high health, armor, sustain / low damage

imbalance:

high damage / high mobility / high health, armor and sustain.

---

with melandru/holebrek, food, dogged march, healing sig, disproportionate base stats, eviscerate, CI, you really have to have your head in a hole not to create a warrior without drawbacks.

Please, pleaseeeeee!! let me know which build is this so I can play GOD mode.

the main reason warrior is allowed to have such a high hp pool is because in the absence of blinks, blinds and stealth the warrior mostly finds himself eating a lot of hostile skills.

the main reason warrior is allowed to have such powerful skills is because he can’t cast multiple skills at the same time like most other classes can. additionally the very powerful skills like backbreaker, skull crack, hundred blades, eviscerate, earth shaker and final thrust have large wind ups and tells.

people say healing signet is overpowered, but i say it’s our only balanced healing skill. for a long time warriors were crying that the class had no sustain, and it didn’t. warriors were free kills to any class that could sustain in a fight for longer than 30 seconds. the only problem with healing signet is that the other heals warrior has didn’t get the same treatment.

my final note is that the warrior isn’t overpowered, certain other classes are just underpowered or underutilized.

not happy right now this patch is going to make things worse ALOT worse. having ad process even on a miss now means EVERY BURST NO MATTER IS NOW COMBUSTIVE SHOT.

what is saw fixed nothing but will create a big problem unless something has changed since I last played.

I also think the impale nerf is too much I don’t like the wait and see approach because next feature patch is a long long away.

I also think warriors are going to be in bad shape later. maybe i’m over reacting but it’s not like we’ve not see anet go overboard with the nerf hammer.

>What’s needed to make Warriors “balanced?”

Give it turrets, minions, pets, invisibility, conjured weaps, illusions, and delete all other “classes” (or, rather, those poor substitutes for warrior) from the game.

Balanced.

unlucky.9285:

make stances 50% effective instead of total immunity that is all that is needed really then they cant go oh look im half health and you are half health pop stance now you cant do anything I can do everything and you cant stop me while I heal up. win

almost every other immunity has a downside apart from ranger (also needs to be looked at tbh) they usually prevent you from doing anything while they are up or block you from using your heals/utilities.

All of them have downside, even ranger and warrior.

Ranger: Your pet takes the damage. Pet has no health left = no immunity

Warrior: Very specific immunities. Where as other professions have to click one skill to become immune to pretty much everything, warrior has to use 3 utilities for the same effect. I think it’s only fair that if you pop all 3 stances you are able to swing your hammer 3 times for free.

dooger.2640:

troll thread for bad players of other classes to “discuss” how they want to nerf another class.

In game where thief is a ultra heavy duty double duty evasion tank, plenty of stuff to fix first

This.

Also, if you honestly think Hambow is the only viable build, you’re just another typical trashy Warrior player and you should stop voicing your opinion.

Ergolicious.1507:

dooger.2640:

troll thread for bad players of other classes to “discuss” how they want to nerf another class.

In game where thief is a ultra heavy duty double duty evasion tank, plenty of stuff to fix first

This.

Also, if you honestly think Hambow is the only viable build, you’re just another typical trashy Warrior player and you should stop voicing your opinion.

^Also this.

Is hambow going to be hitted on warrior changes?

Aeolus.3615:

Is hambow going to be hitted on warrior changes?

Only with the adrenaline nerf making missing Earthshaker more punishing. Other than that, not that I saw.

I still feel they should change the CI/Combustive Shot interaction to be in line with the other burst skills, as that will help open up build variety again. This would probably leave Warriors a bit underpowered, but will open them up to new, healthier buffs.

Ergolicious.1507:

dooger.2640:

troll thread for bad players of other classes to “discuss” how they want to nerf another class.

In game where thief is a ultra heavy duty double duty evasion tank, plenty of stuff to fix first

This.

Also, if you honestly think Hambow is the only viable build, you’re just another typical trashy Warrior player and you should stop voicing your opinion.

@ first quote:

In game where thief is a ultra heavy duty double duty evasion tank, plenty of stuff to fix first

^ Wat?

@ Second quote:

Not a troll thread. Check the actual post history, there are some good points being made and then things that should outright be ignored.

Also note that buffs are being discussed as well.

Fiorrello.8126:

the main reason warrior is allowed to have such a high hp pool is because in the absence of blinks, blinds and stealth the warrior mostly finds himself eating a lot of hostile skills.

the main reason warrior is allowed to have such powerful skills is because he can’t cast multiple skills at the same time like most other classes can. additionally the very powerful skills like backbreaker, skull crack, hundred blades, eviscerate, earth shaker and final thrust have large wind ups and tells.

people say healing signet is overpowered, but i say it’s our only balanced healing skill. for a long time warriors were crying that the class had no sustain, and it didn’t. warriors were free kills to any class that could sustain in a fight for longer than 30 seconds. the only problem with healing signet is that the other heals warrior has didn’t get the same treatment.

my final note is that the warrior isn’t overpowered, certain other classes are just underpowered or underutilized.

This is pretty much my view.

I would just say “Hammer” and be done, but 15 limit

dooger.2640:

troll thread for bad players of other classes to “discuss” how they want to nerf another class.

In game where thief is a ultra heavy duty double duty evasion tank, plenty of stuff to fix first

Aww, you poor underpowered oppressed warriors!