Guild Wars 2

Recently.1043:

no offense but wvw is pvp for dummies. No one really complains about anything in wvw balance wise (aside from stealth/culling and portal). Any build is viable in wvw cause people there are just plain bad for the most part.

go play some spvp, get to at least rank10 minimum (doesn’t take that long) playing only warrior. Play free tourneys at least also, and watch what happens to a warrior in those fights. You don’t understand until you try it yourself sorry.

Not sure who this response was aimed at, but pvp in any of its forms, is not something I was commenting on. The only thing I talk about is pve. I don’t log on to duel…no matter how many there are to do that with. I’m just talking about the basic design of the warrior class itself. Poor scaling of things like toughness and armor make the absence of protection stand out like a sore thumb imo.

Recently.1043:

go play some spvp, get to at least rank10 minimum (doesn’t take that long) playing only warrior. Play free tourneys at least also, and watch what happens to a warrior in those fights. You don’t understand until you try it yourself sorry.

Level 10? Check.
Played on warrior? Check
Free Tournies? Check

Warriors issues in sPvP are different to WvW. It is hardly “PvP for dummies”, there is more stat combinations available, and newsflash: it’s part of the game so it is still something needing consideration. It’s a different manner of play, sPvP involves fighting over small points which can be easily covered by necro wells or have a guardian push you off constantly.

I have played sPvP, but I play more WvW and it is a different set of issues there. Yes, there is more viability but it doesn’t mean it has problems. I would rather comment on the medium that I know more about. You must also remember that not all WvW combat is a blob, I for one prefer fights to be around 10v10, whilst sPvP I find to be majorly 1v2.

There was another thread, now buried deep in the forums, about a warriors survival issues in WvW. We are a class that spends the majority of its time in the front lines where we are under attack from lots of players, have to stand in multiple AoE’s. Now I don’t expect to survive forever, but generally our survival is well below that of a guardian or d/d ele. We simply do not have any way to mitigate the damage beyond toughness. Burst damage in WvW on the other hand, is mostly easy to land so is in that sense quick opposite of sPvP.

Of course, I am wasting my time here due to the usual implication that players of a different game type are second class citizens. Simple fact is no, not every build is viable, unless of course you run in a zerg.

EDIT: as there has been more posts since I refreshed, @ ODB.
I have not been “gibbed by 100b”, I actually think 100b is utterly terrible and it makes me sad to see how many players swing it at thin air with frenzy on, then do eviscerate straight after like they have it all macroed together. Whirlwind however is another matter, that one is much harder to avoid and still does kitten good damage.

The reason I mentioned 100b is because it is the typical ability that players tend to rate damage with, it is also one of our best burst abilities and as such an example of how hard we can hit when we land it. I don’t think that hitting that hard should come with the level of defense that Protection+Heavy armor+High HP can provide.

At that stage we may as well be a guardian with more hp (Joke of course.. although they do hit waaay too hard for their survival >.>)

Neandramathal.9536:

The reason I mentioned 100b is because it is the typical ability that players tend to rate damage with, it is also one of our best burst abilities and as such an example of how hard we can hit when we land it. I don’t think that hitting that hard should come with the level of defense that Protection+Heavy armor+High HP can provide.

At that stage we may as well be a guardian with more hp (Joke of course.. although they do hit waaay too hard for their survival >.>)

You seem to put a lot of stock into the whole “heavy armor” thing, but I’m sure anyone who has played multiple professions in this game can tell you that that is not a survival factor at end game play. This is especially true when you take some points that you mentioned yourself about “front line” players on a battle field. Being on the front lines/in melee range means that you are going to take extra damage just be having to navigate/run through red circles…just to be able to do your damage. To my knowledge, armor does not mitigate condition damage. Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS) and Heavy armor + high HP advantage just got erased. You should already be familiar with this mechanic as it is the same thing you have to deal with as your bunker build…just imagine that without the extra hp, toughness, and shout healing/regeneration you get. Stop hating on deeps btw…seems to be some issue there lol…reoccurring theme about what you don’t think other players should have.

One buff in common does not equal a guardian btw. I’m fairly positive guardians aren’t the only class that gets the protection boon. Not asking to heal like a guardian, block like a guardian, buff like a guardian….just want to not be squishier than a light armor wearing class.

ODB.6891:

Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS)

You couldn’t be more wrong. I roll a hammer, I find the greatsword boring and frankly overshadows our other weapons far too much in every aspect but CC. I am also not a bunker player, I have high armor but I am not a bunker, nor am I a shout warrior. You are making an incredibly large amount of assumptions.

I agree, heavy armor does not change much. But it is still there, and specced for DPS a warrior can still push numbers higher than the majority of classes. Hating on ‘deeps’? not really, but I am not blind to the damage we can output.

Sigh, all this simply because I said I don’t believe something described as “glass” should have access to one of the best defensive boons available.

Neandramathal.9536:

ODB.6891:

Combine that with weak escape options that don’t involve your favorite weapon (GS)

You couldn’t be more wrong. I roll a hammer, I find the greatsword boring and frankly overshadows our other weapons far too much in every aspect but CC. I am also not a bunker player, I have high armor but I am not a bunker, nor am I a shout warrior. You are making an incredibly large amount of assumptions.

I agree, heavy armor does not change much. But it is still there, and specced for DPS a warrior can still push numbers higher than the majority of classes. Hating on ‘deeps’? not really, but I am not blind to the damage we can output.

Sigh, all this simply because I said I don’t believe something described as “glass” should have access to one of the best defensive boons available.

The favorite weapon remark was about your focus on 100b and it was a bit of sarcasm as you had already said you were just using it as an example…so not an assumption.

Nearly everything you have said so far has been focused on buffing bunker warriors…so anyone reading that would have made that assumption.

One is not a lot of assumptions.

One of a grand total of 3 defensive boons in the entire game…if you count stability as a defensive boon. I will never agree with you that any melee class should be without stability and at least one high uptime damage reducer…those are just logical prerequisites for melee combat in this game design. Guardians currently have everything except stealth and weakness. Thieves have stealth and blind. Warriors have weakness….if they use a warhorn. I’d even be satisfied if they just added weakness to one of our shouts…instead of attaching it to a specific offhand weapon….and let it have decent uptime.

I would be singing a completely different tune if heavy armor type actually made a significant impact on our survival, but we both know that will not be the case because it would further buff guardians.

As my initial post said – was a bit fed up that night :P So sorry if I was aggressive, it was also not helped by the other posts of “sPvP or GTFO” nature. We are coming from completely different parts of the game, as you are a PvE player you said? So naturally we see things differently.

My reasons behind not thinking a predominently/completely DPS focused build should have protection is because at 33% damage reduction, that’s pretty hefty and I fear the class becoming strong survival AND damage – it all depends on how it would be implemented of course. Our survival on the whole does need buffing, but with protection being a ‘defensive’ boon it feels like one logical to be put high in the defense tree, making any build that takes it at least not totally damage orientated.

I do find in WvW I kill classes like thieves faster than Warriors/Guardians but that is also majorly due to Thieves average build being glass. Rangers/Engineers can take a fair time to bring down, so I wouldn’t say heavy armor makes a HUGE difference, but it is noticeable.

I certainly agree with you on stability, I run both Last Stand and Balanced Stance because trying to go into the frontlines only to be knocked around every second, when we have our err… survival issues, is painful. I can see why the dev’s are struggling to decide what to do though, Warriors are amazing for low skilled players to pickup and crush other low skilled players, but in skill vs skill it’s a different story. There will also always be the issue that ranged classes have built in survival, allowing them to spec more offensively but if they slip up and let the melee get close they are gone.

Balance is a really hard task, I kinda thing a reverse trait of Berserkers Power would be nice – % less damage taken for adrenaline level, but that would further increase the sitting on adrenaline issue. I believe that the resource itself should be something you are constantly weighing up holding/spending by it’s very nature, yet that the longer the fight progresses the stronger the warrior becomes… the greatsword has a fantastic trait for this in terms of might stacking, allowing a more toughness specced player to build their damage up as time goes on.

Kinda sucks that weapon swap sigils have that 9s CD too But I know why they did that!

The fact that a single condition – that is to say POISON – can shut us down really frustrates me in both PvE and PvP. The dungeons where I get multiple instances of Poison thrown at me (so the duration is like 45 sec+) completely renders my Healing Signet useless.

CrazyAce.3842:

The fact that a single condition – that is to say POISON – can shut us down really frustrates me in both PvE and PvP. The dungeons where I get multiple instances of Poison thrown at me (so the duration is like 45 sec+) completely renders my Healing Signet useless.

I think Mending removes the conditions before applying the healing (at least that’s my anecdotal experience, need to have it confirmed). Try swapping it in before those fights to see if that helps you out.