Guild Wars 2

I dont think it will pay off. hammer was a single weapon. It has not changed since its very conception. before healsignet was changed warriors were still rated the worst class to pvp with and it was balanced by its insane telegraphs. then they buffed #4 and added healsignet and kitten hit the fan. all of a sudden it took no brain to chain a CC together and survive doing it. people saw hammer and they gave up, didnt even bother dodging because why dodge when its on a 7 second cd? there are only 2 culprits for the warriors op state.
the first culprit is obviously healsignet. much too powerful in any fight lasting longer than (I think it was 20 seconds but im not sure I remember correctly)
the second culprit is staggering blow. nobody used to use it correctly and therefore hammer was seen as inferior since it only had 1 effective and reliable CC effect.

obviously I can blame people who cant dodge but there really is no point because casuals make up a massive amount of the population and sometimes you cant l2dodge if you have already dodged an even more powerful burst only 3 seconds prior.
there is a reason the hammer was always reffered to as the zergbusting weapon of choice even since day one. It punishes bad players and unlucky ones.
If this gamble fails anet, and warriors are still OP, you will nerf healing signet and then warriors will be back to where they were in release only with less damage (inherently)and more survivability (forced to trait)

I don’t believe it was a gamble I believe it was a mistake to even touch warriors at all. They should have bug fixes only. Buff the other professions and see how it plays out rather than touch the warriors at all.

The logic is by nerfing the warriors and buffing other professions they are fixing a problem that does not exist. Meaning if warriors are left alone and other professions are buffed they are fixing that problem. But if warrior is no longer and issue and the other classes are buffed they have simply fixed a problem that does not exist.

I really don’t mind the hammer nerf at all. I don’t use UF to begin with and at least armored attack is getting a buff from 5-10%, which doesn’t close the gap entirely but at least 1/3 of it.

5-10%. That is only becasue they are buffing other classes damage to 10% So it is not a buff that you will be obvious when a warrior is against another class that has had a damage buff.

This is a power creep only that is going to cause more harm than good.

Warlord.9074:

5-10%. That is only becasue they are buffing other classes damage to 10% So it is not a buff that you will be obvious when a warrior is against another class that has had a damage buff.

This is a power creep only that is going to cause more harm than good.

and every game has proved power creeping doesnt achieve balance, it just flattens classes.

After the hammer nerf, there will be more. The other classes will not stop complaining, and the devs will keep on nerfing warriors. Feel free to quote me in the future.

Heed my words.

With every patch, there comes a new meta, followed shortly to said meta or counters to prior meta counters etc etc and the cycle will always contnue. Warriors became a counter to the counter, and dealt with the condi meta. Now The cycle is starting again. With every new patch, theres always something wrong.

This proves Anet does not know how to balance anything without proper augmentation or acknowledgement or future potential of other classes.

Aaaaaaand this is why they are practically having to give the game away. GG Anet on your whackamole balance philosophies.

There’s no need to “fix” warrior. There’s a need to fix the other classes, though. Nerfing this one class will only lead to more nerfs because they don’t see the bigger picture.

The other thing is the game model of agony and condi mumbo jumbo. Since last patch they added even more CC to the Tower. What the fork,man. This is supposed to be fun.

imo they should of just buffed some other classes more

anywho, every patch like this people will find the next best thing and every other person will use it which will make it feel OP and then it will get nerfed, rinse wash repeat.

while i dont agree it fixes anything, at least it keeps things interesting

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

Every decent player I know says he does not have problems out damaging the healing signet. Think like this: hit a warrior for 8k and it takes him 20s to regenerate it. That is more than enough time to deal another 8k in damage.

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

Zanshin.5379:

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

You don’t, however you can apply your endless protection/regen and spam your 2k healing dodge and to top it off, full heal signet/half hp heal 2 second block. Also, it’s like most mmo’s out there, not all classes can counter one another, it’s just something you have to deal with.

This is also a game with numerous builds, you can’t expect one build to suddenly counter every class, it doesn’t work like that.

Zanshin.5379:

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

Sigil of doom. You can keep poison up 50% (if on both sets) of the time if it is not cleansed. That is without condition duration or added affects.

Ethaine.8419:

Zanshin.5379:

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

You don’t, however you can apply your endless protection/regen and spam your 2k healing dodge and to top it off, full heal signet/half hp heal 2 second block. Also, it’s like most mmo’s out there, not all classes can counter one another, it’s just something you have to deal with.

This is also a game with numerous builds, you can’t expect one build to suddenly counter every class, it doesn’t work like that.

This would be fine if warrior could not run away break combat and heal up (guardian doesn’t have the capability in soft or hard cc to keep a warrior in combat nor the mobility to chase for a long time). The situation isn’t really all that different from DD ele before the nerfs. Like most classes deemed “OP” the nerfs will come in places where they are unnecessary and the nerfs that need to happen will linger until the class is nerfed into the ground.

Anet could have simply said they buffed HS a little to much and didn’t do enough for the active. However that is not what happened. We can complain, counter, discuss, etc. the differences between classes all day long.

In the long run warrior was very UP and needed a buff. The buff and new build discovery led to a delay between stopping buffs and letting the meta settle. Sad part is warrior was a sorry shape for a very very long time. When the buffs were too strong instead of the warrior community trying to curtail the changes they accepted the meta and told everyone else deal with it. Many players who hadn’t touched their warrior in months rushed into the class equipped the new FOTM build and ran rampant in Spvp and WvW challenging every argument that the class might be too strong with the ever classic,“L2P”.

That is the reality.

The class will be nerfed. Some other build on some other class will become the new FOTM and players will flock to that class get their wins. Some players will complain that warrior is UP and beg for buffs. The cycle will go like this until Anet takes a hard look at class balance in all aspects of the game and actually attempts balance.

I don’t agree with your assessment theguy. I don’t think the buffs were too strong. I think people just look for an excuse and something to blame. And ANET LISTENS to them and thats why things keep changing. Many people will agree that gurdians don’t need buffed yet look they are getting buffs. Even warriors that people are claiming are too strong cannot take down a skilled guardian with ease..

Warlord.9074:

I don’t agree with your assessment theguy. I don’t think the buffs were too strong. I think people just look for an excuse and something to blame. And ANET LISTENS to them and thats why things keep changing. Many people will agree that gurdians don’t need buffed yet look they are getting buffs. Even warriors that people are claiming are too strong cannot take down a skilled guardian with ease..

So tell me what proposed guardian buffs are too much? tell me what buffs to guardian are too strong or represent something OP? Even better yet tell me how the guardian community has responded to the proposed buffs? Tell me how they will affect Spvp and WvW? Here is a link read the responses. Unless you play and understand the classes and their builds there is no point commenting on this.

That sort of blind, " You are getting buffed so do not speak" attitude is the same as yelling “L2P”.

So you understand warrior has more mobility and CC (soft and hard) than a guardian. If the 2 meet generally a guardian will not be able to keep the warrior in combat. It is additionally it is much harder for a the guardian to land melee and range DPS due to the current weapon design.

In spvp bunkering situations guardians tend to bunker mid better simply due to better support. In terms of bunkering in general a warrior can do a good job a swell but simply has less group support than the guardian.

Thing will change no matter what. Any game with pvp like this will continually see changes no matter which class is on top. It is a given. Instead of arguing for the sake or arguing re read what I wrote.

Warrior’s have to break combat with signet if they are taking heavy damage, that’s just the way it is with passive regen, with a guardian however, you have access to many big burst heals and protection which let you stay in combat longer.

The signet is only overpowered when paired with Melandru runes and the -condition duration food, now something has come along and countered the condition meta, people start freaking out.

Why are people comparing the Warrior sustain to a Guardian? It’s not news Guardian have the better sustain, but it comes at the cost of hitting like a paper plane, as opposed to the Warrior who can have a slightly weaker sustain, yet capable of still hitting like a truck.

Vanthian.9267:

Zanshin.5379:

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

Sigil of doom. You can keep poison up 50% (if on both sets) of the time if it is not cleansed. That is without condition duration or added affects.

It’s a pretty broken system if you need to be running specific sigils just to counter one profession.

Nothing wrong with HS, but the poison argument is pathetic. Why do other Warriors forget the level of cleansing a Warrior has (Cleaning Ire, mostly, but not to mention the usual rune/food set)?

Ethaine.8419:

Warrior’s have to break combat with signet if they are taking heavy damage, that’s just the way it is with passive regen, with a guardian however, you have access to many big burst heals and protection which let you stay in combat longer.

The signet is only overpowered when paired with Melandru runes and the -condition duration food, now something has come along and countered the condition meta, people start freaking out.

Except for the fact that -condi duration food does not work in pvp other than wvw. Why are people not saying ether renewal is op it removes up to 8 conditions on a 15 second cooldown.

Phillip.6485:

After the hammer nerf, there will be more. The other classes will not stop complaining, and the devs will keep on nerfing warriors. Feel free to quote me in the future.

Lol warriors getting nerfed more then once.

I kinda agree with the OP.
The warriors were nerfed where there were no problem. The warrior’s current OP state is thanks to an accumulation of all the big and small things that were buffed for them. Healing signet, berserker stance and cleansing ire among some minor other things.
They are right with their philosophy that too much damage and too much control should not exist in the same build but the problem is not really too much damage and too much control, as it was already there before they were nerfed (if the warrior chose so). Cleansing ire on really high adrenaline gain builds, berserker stance, lots of access to stability and the highest health regen rate of all classes, when these all become available on the same build, along with the high damage and high control, then there’s the problem.

The solution to the condition meta is not to introduce one or two builds that can heavy counter them. What about the rest? The solution is to nerf the conditions itself. Anet keeps saying that they want players to play what they want and with whatever style they prefer, but their balance philosophy seem to contradict that.

Flissy.4093:

Vanthian.9267:

Zanshin.5379:

MiLkZz.4789:

People seriously still complaining about healing signet? How many months does it take for someone to counter it? Bit of poison and you are done for.

How can I apply poison with my guardian?

Sigil of doom. You can keep poison up 50% (if on both sets) of the time if it is not cleansed. That is without condition duration or added affects.

It’s a pretty broken system if you need to be running specific sigils just to counter one profession.

Nothing wrong with HS, but the poison argument is pathetic. Why do other Warriors forget the level of cleansing a Warrior has (Cleaning Ire, mostly, but not to mention the usual rune/food set)?

Guardians are the one class that have almost no conditions. They also have no bleeds nor torment.

Whereas, the Warrior has no defense boons per say. They have very limited regeneration & vigor and no protection.

Certain classes are restricted to certain rolls but can branch out to new rolls through sigils and runes. I am not saying it is the best out of everything in the game, but 50% up time on poison for having 0 skills that have it is pretty awesome.

can we get off the guardian subject. guardians do different things than warriors much better in support aspects where warriors excel at damage.
and to put this other annoyance to rest. People are trying to justify balance on a specific class based on situational abilities. its like saying earthshaker is 100% balanced because blinds exist. You cannot say oh if x class has 15k heal on a 30 second CD its balanced because you can poison them. Those dont work. Poison is used to gain advantages not completely counter a class just as blinds (as annoying as they are) cannot be a justifiable way to hard counter earthshaker (or all slow cast abilities). In fact the only true hard counter for earthshaker is not being a dodge fiend and an interrupt faceroller. counters exist to stop an entire group of builds such as bunker, burst, or condies ect ect. if a counter is developed to specifically detriment a single skill (with healsignet it is lack of skill) then the balance is not distributed properly and must be changed. Things requiring more skill such as landing an earthshaker on a good opponent are being nerfed where the counter to the entire PLAYSTYLE already exists through skill and practice. (as all burst classes are countered in such a way)

To the people who keep supporting guardians using sigil of doom… what competent guardian would lose out on good sigils just to use poison to poorly counter healing from a profession

Epic.3950:

I dont think it will pay off. hammer was a single weapon. It has not changed since its very conception. before healsignet was changed warriors were still rated the worst class to pvp with and it was balanced by its insane telegraphs. then they buffed #4 and added healsignet and kitten hit the fan. all of a sudden it took no brain to chain a CC together and survive doing it. people saw hammer and they gave up, didnt even bother dodging because why dodge when its on a 7 second cd? there are only 2 culprits for the warriors op state.
the first culprit is obviously healsignet. much too powerful in any fight lasting longer than (I think it was 20 seconds but im not sure I remember correctly)
the second culprit is staggering blow. nobody used to use it correctly and therefore hammer was seen as inferior since it only had 1 effective and reliable CC effect.

obviously I can blame people who cant dodge but there really is no point because casuals make up a massive amount of the population and sometimes you cant l2dodge if you have already dodged an even more powerful burst only 3 seconds prior.
there is a reason the hammer was always reffered to as the zergbusting weapon of choice even since day one. It punishes bad players and unlucky ones.
If this gamble fails anet, and warriors are still OP, you will nerf healing signet and then warriors will be back to where they were in release only with less damage (inherently)and more survivability (forced to trait)

If you think warrior buffs started with the hammer change from a couple months back…you’re missing a lot. Dogged March and cleansing ire changes were the start of the warrior buffs and that happened in June sometime.

It is not just a warrior problem . The issue is that there are classes that get innate sustain . IMHO , you should be able to sustain yourself ONLY if you spec into a defensive/heal oriented build , not just with traits , but with armor , rune and sigil choices .

We have a warrior with free sustain coming from a single signet and 20 into defense . Nothing is given toward healing power stats and everything can go into power and toughness . This is free sustain . Same thing with Elementalist . Free sustain through skills and traits , and a very low investment into HPower . Thief , same deal , spec 30 into Shadow arts and you are good to go .
Being OP or UP at each iteration of the metagame is irrelevant in my mind . The design is bad . If you spec into toughness and healing power with condition removal you should be able to sustain yourself in a fight , but be weaker offensively . If not , you should not be able to outsustain some bunker builds . This is total BS

If A-Net wants to break the condition spam meta, they shouldn’t of nerfed quickness to the ground. Now its just bunker this bunker that and keep dodging until people bleed to death. Nerfing quickness pretty much removed the condition power creep and we’re seeing it full bloom. Go tank and dump conditions, win every fight.

I am okay with Warriors having a healing signet. After all they are not meant to cloak, summon clones, dodge all the time, shadow step, etc. So this has given a good opportunity for warriors to have a surviving chance against those who do.

The signet is not as effective until you add the 20 traits in defense. Which is fine because (keyword: defense) that is their survival trait line. The alternative is that those 20 points basically go into dps (or else more survival), which means more damage. Since warriors cannot sustain themselves (mitigate damage), “more damage” becomes no damage very quickly.

Having high dps and CC I thought was suppose to be their role (guards being the protective type) especially because they were meant to be strong melee fighters. Certainly they are not perfectly in balance, but I do not think there is an obvious solution because each class should be very distinct from each other so as to have a totally different philosophy of fighting. That being said, I think the issue may include that we all want the perfect build that has a winning chance against every other build. I do not think such a thing exist, because every character cannot simply have everything.

To show this more practically: Mr.X gets an new exciting build, beats the majority of the builds out there all week, one build he cannot beat for the life of him. Mr. X concludes they are overpowered, or that something is not fair. Do not get me wrong, I am not saying this is the sole issue, but that it is very possible. There is not a single character+build I have that can beat every single build (not to mention how do I measure skill level).

A possible solution is that they have rated duels. No dependence on team members, just one on one fights. If there is an obvious imbalance with warriors, the top 100 players will be mostly warriors with that certain OP build.

Having said all that, I am glad they nerfed the hammer, maybe it will help make things fair (along with all the other profession changes) maybe it wont. We will see soon.

Furajir.3815:

Heed my words.

With every patch, there comes a new meta, followed shortly to said meta or counters to prior meta counters etc etc and the cycle will always contnue. Warriors became a counter to the counter, and dealt with the condi meta. Now The cycle is starting again. With every new patch, theres always something wrong.

This is only true up to a point.

Yes, with every patch the meta evolves and you get a new FotM. That FotM will sometimes, but not always lead to a counter-meta.

But this process is generally over within a month, 2 at the most.

GW2 just doesn’t have that many classes, abilities or depth to have and extensive meta-game. It’s not like GW1 where every class had hundreds of skills to chose from. It’s not LoL or DotA 2 with their 100 different heroes and dozens of different items.

Step 1: Introduce and excessively buff condition damage skills and introduce armor in the game that allows you to do insane condi damage while also having huge vit and toughness. Practically everyone runs condi-heavy builds and basically no one uses power builds.

Step 2: Buff warriors so they can be a counter to condi-spamming classes with a few useful power builds.

Step 3: Nerf warriors’ main power build so they can no longer effectively counter condi-spamming classes.

Step 4: Arrive at same point you were 4-5 months ago.

I guess everyone really enjoys pressing 12345(dodge)12345(dodge)12345(dodge) while kiting in a circle.

ANet has clearly chosen the round-robin nerf/buff balancing act. They’ve had multiple iterations now on all classes and for all elements of every character…it won’t stop.

What ever group blob of minority forum posters screams loudest will win contrary to whatever data-mining is done and reasonable foresight is discussed. If ANet wanted balance, if they wanted a gameplay that was fair for every type of gameplay mode, they would use some of the better-in-class MMO guidelines on how to get there and they would do it intelligently through player feedback to address prioritization.

Guys/gals of this board, if you truly want to fix Warrior, pick a different class starting tomorrow and play that. The silence will be deafening.

I think that ANet is making the right choice is toning down the Hammer.

Looking at the forums, pretty much all of the complaints about Healing Signet have centered around Skullcrack and Earthshaker. I don’t recall seeing anyone complaining that Healing Signet was too strong with any other weapon.

Reducing the CC with mainhand Mace and Hammer would also be a bad move because that would just leave Mace with nothing interesting and Hammer would’ve become more about damage than teh CC, which is already true for pretty much all the other weapons. I think that having the option for playing CC is valuable.

The thing is, Healing Signet boosts the overall survivability of a Warrior, regardless of their choice of weapon. And being deemed playable with any weaponset is a much bigger impact than being deemed OP with one weaponset.

To the warrior class, how many weaknesses does a warrior have in comparison to other class or to all class combined?

sincere replies only,

thanks

Only problem I have ever had with warriors is their insane mobility. They fix that I’m happy.