Engineer is highly comical
wow i just read this whole thread , my conclusion is , a lot of engi defending an OP class and a lot of thiefs crying lol
[WM]give us in game ladder
Hahaha. I don’t even know how I should feel about this thread anymore.
Just freaking admit that Engineers are slightly out of control in casual PvP.
Sure, they are not overly used in high tier pvp, but that does not mean they shouldn’t get balanced. The REASON engineers are unbalanced atm is simply because of the effort they take to be skilled with, which is pretty much none.
Yes.. There are skilled engineers and less skilled ones, but the less skilled ones still benefit enormously in a solo-Q, since you can’t really be useless with an Engi.
The exact same problem we had with Warriors a few patches ago.
And now some engineers start to redirect the discussion onto Longbow Rangers?
Seriously? I don’t think I’ve ever died to a Longbow Ranger in PvP, since there is so much kiting/obstruct potential.
I honestly dont hold a grudge against any class, and try be as objective as possible at any time. It’s getting ridiculous that people always defend their main class. What do benefit from it? I honestly think it’s kittened. If you’re a good player, you’ll learn the accept that the class was out of balance and then adapt. In the long run its much better for the game.
Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Honestly these days I think Engi is fine. If DD ele didnt exist, it would be the top spec, but it can still be beaten 1v1, and can be focused easily. DD ele on the other hand can not e countered in any way, doesnt lose any 1v1s, and has much higher kiting potential due to RtL and LF.
Best Multiclass NA. RIP my beautiful Necromancer, such a shame. Retired, April 2015. GG Anet,
I’m not coming back, not that you care.
I’m not coming back, not that you care.
You can’t watch your back 100% of the time or else you will not be watching your foe.
You should know where the potential problem for you is on the map, plain and simple, and reposition yourself accordingly to better respond where they are going to be coming from. If you’re fighting on one point, you need to be aware that a gank CAN happen. If you can’t see the potential problem fighting on another node, you cannot simply deduce that you’re going to be safe. Nobody can merit being on a point and advocating players to be blissfully unaware of what is going on around them or tunnel-visioning on the guy they might be fighting. In other words, don’t push the lane and put yourself out of position if you think you’re going to get ganked.
Again.
Nobody is saying anything about ganking.
Ganking is a part of pvp.
Owning players unexpectedly from max range is op.
Notice how I’m not complaining about thieves, or mesmers, or enigneers, or necromancers, or elementalists, guardians, or warriors, or even rangers in general.
I’m complaining about one ranger build, particularly power ranger longbow.
You are missing the point entirely.
Edit: removed all of the “kittens”
Again.
Nobody is saying anything about ganking.
Nothing like fighting someone for a point and suddenly having a back full of arrows from 1300 range.
You have already absorbed all the damage before you even realize a ranger has decided to join the skirmish.It is cheap, skill-less, and outright abused in spvp atm.
Actually you are specifically talking about ganking. +1’ing a fight that is already occurring is ganking. If you want to prevent that from happening, you need to stop tunnel-visioning, glance at the map, and position yourself better – plain and simple.
I am saying that, in your very specific example, if you do not want to be 1 shot by rangers like this, then you need to pay better attention to the map.
This type of stuff happens to me all the time, but I don’t blame the other class for it. I blame my forgetfulness.
(edited by Chicago Jack.5647)
Again.
Nobody is saying anything about ganking.Nothing like fighting someone for a point and suddenly having a back full of arrows from 1300 range.
You have already absorbed all the damage before you even realize a ranger has decided to join the skirmish.It is cheap, skill-less, and outright abused in spvp atm.
Actually you are specifically talking about ganking. +1’ing a fight that is already occurring is ganking. If you want to prevent that from happening, you need to stop tunnel-visioning, glance at the map, and position yourself better – plain and simple.
I am saying that, in your very specific example, if you do not want to be 1 shot by rangers like this, then you need to pay better attention to the map.
Nobody is saying anything about getting one shot, either.
You are reading text between the lines that simply isn’t there.
I gave a scenario about how absurdly overpowered longbow rangers are.
They don’t stop being overpowered in a 2v2 or a 3v3, but things get easier as players are free to leave the point and chase down the ranger as a teammate holds a cap/decap.
Bottom line is….. in a game type where you are forced to hold capture points, lb power rangers can stand at max range and essentially pelt players fighting on point with high damage attacks, (with absolutely no fear of losing a max range fight)
When someone leaves a capture point to go fight said ranger, he has a lengthy invulnerability skill, 30 seconds of stability, and the furthest gap closer skill (ranger GS 3, swoop) to turn around and retreat at the earliest sign of confrontation.
Nothing like fighting someone for a point and suddenly having a back full of arrows from 1300 range.
You have already absorbed all the damage before you even realize a ranger has decided to join the skirmish.It is cheap, skill-less, and outright abused in spvp atm.
You are reading text between the lines that simply isn’t there.
No I’m not; these are your words verbatim. You got shot in the back by a ranger because you were trying to pay attention to the fight on a node with another player. If there is any other point your trying to get across, you can’t expect me, or others, to be able to read your mind.
I gave a scenario about how absurdly overpowered longbow rangers are.
That scenario isn’t overpowered. Ganking is part of the game – no matter what the distance.
They don’t stop being overpowered in a 2v2 or a 3v3, but things get easier as players are free to leave the point and chase down the ranger as a teammate holds a cap/decap.
Bottom line is….. in a game type where you are forced to hold capture points, lb power rangers can stand at max range and essentially pelt players fighting on point with high damage attacks, (with absolutely no fear of losing a max range fight)
This is another issue entirely. You need to learn when it is okay and when it isn’t okay to stay on a point, and this includes determining if you should be actively fighting or not. I can assure you, between dieing and holding that decap for a few more seconds, or abandoning the point to stay alive. Almost always its better to abandon to stay alive.
(edited by Chicago Jack.5647)
Nothing like fighting someone for a point and suddenly having a back full of arrows from 1300 range.
You have already absorbed all the damage before you even realize a ranger has decided to join the skirmish.It is cheap, skill-less, and outright abused in spvp atm.
You are reading text between the lines that simply isn’t there.
No I’m not; these are your words verbatim. You got shot in the back by a ranger because you were trying to pay attention to the fight on a node with another player.
I gave a scenario about how absurdly overpowered longbow rangers are.
That scenario isn’t overpowered. Ganking is part of the game.
They don’t stop being overpowered in a 2v2 or a 3v3, but things get easier as players are free to leave the point and chase down the ranger as a teammate holds a cap/decap.
Bottom line is….. in a game type where you are forced to hold capture points, lb power rangers can stand at max range and essentially pelt players fighting on point with high damage attacks, (with absolutely no fear of losing a max range fight)
This is another issue entirely. You need to learn when it is okay and when it isn’t okay to stay on a point, and this includes determining if you should be actively fighting or not. I can assure you, between dieing and holding that decap for a few more seconds, or abandoning the point to stay alive. Almost always its better to abandon to stay alive.
I’m honestly not going to argue with you about any of this any more.
You aren’t refuting any of my claims about rangers, and are instead attributing what I see as overpowered as my lack of understanding game mechanics.
I can tell you right now that looking up your stats, total games, win/loss ratio that you are in no position to accuse me of not understanding how pvp works.
(kitten , I went there)
…and can also make a safe assumption that you are merely defending rangers because you just started playing one after the longbow ranger patch.
Since you’ve resorted to name-calling…
You aren’t refuting any of my claims about rangers, and are instead attributing what I see as overpowered as my lack of understanding game mechanics.
You have made zero claims about rangers other than they can deal damage from 1300 range away. Which is rather an empty statement – nobody cares. A thief jumps onto a target with a full force burst (if a target is at 50% health, no matter how much armor you have, you’re going to die to it) using infiltrator signet and steal for an 1800 range teleport that literally cannot be spotted if you don’t have good positioning. A Mesmer can unload 15 to 20 stacks of vulnerabilty, generate an around an additional 6 mightstacks to the person you’re fighting, boonstrip 2 to 4 boons, has a 1200 range spike similar to Ranger (only with added cleave damage and less projectiles) in virtually an instant. An Engineer can unload all of his grenades from a max range of 1500 and use magnet pull for a burst (the best pull in the game) from 1200 range. A warrior can set up his CC burst from a 1200 range pindown immob that lasts 3 seconds. A necromancer can strip virtually all boons and unload a condi burst without any projectile warning from 1200 range away. The most valuable take away from your post for everyone here was the fact that people tend to spike when people are paying attention to something else. There are ways to prevent this from happening, and the best way to stop this is to just pay attention. So yes, instead of looking at yourself and what you can be doing better (which is what everyone should do constantly), you decided to go onto the forums and complain about what you’re having trouble against.
Then you go on a random tangent and talk about how it’s only one example on why Power Ranger is “op”. And we are supposed to read your mind on whatever THAT thing is.
I’m honestly not going to argue with you about any of this any more.
Lol okay bud.
(edited by Chicago Jack.5647)
Yeah engi basically just made me quit spvp today. The cooldowns are insanely short for how many/how powerful most of their options are. The class has so many “oh kitten” buttons. Supply crate is literally an iwin button in a lot of situations. Just being thrown around like a rag doll, or spammed with ai, or condi bombed (wtb minimum range on grenades) while the engi rotates through channeled blocks, invulns, automatic invulns/automatic full heals at 25%, on demand stealth, in addition to crazy kiting tools. It’s just ridiculous. Anyone who says this classes balancing feature is how skill dependent it is is just deluding themself. It’s got a lot of buttons, but they’re so easy to use and the cooldowns aren’t inflated to make up the difference with having so many options like they are with ele (let alone actually having to worry about getting locked out of a kit if you misuse it god forbid). There’s just no drawback to kittening up with this class while the reward is incredibly high.
I’m perfectly ok with people thinking we’re op. Players hate getting beat, and need excuses, and it makes it easier for me to troll them. This is a discussion that obviously has no room for logic. People say us engineers are just defending our profession, but does anyone stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it’s because we’re the ones actually playing the profession and know what we’re talking about?
Either way, none of this matters. One of two things will happen. Either Engineer remains the same and and some other class gets buffed and becomes the target of hatred, or Engineers get nerfed in the areas people are complaining of, then buffed elsewhere to compensate and remain viable, and everyone finds something new with the engineer to complain about…
ENGI GADGETS BE OP!!!!!!! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
every patch they will always make an op class so fotm rerollers can win with now its engies
action combat made mmos better lol
People please; PvP is NOT based on 1v1.
Thank you.
Denied | 5.9k PvP Games | PvP Rank: 236 | 8.6k hours | 9 Legendaries | Still Bad.
I’m perfectly ok with people thinking we’re op. Players hate getting beat, and need excuses, and it makes it easier for me to troll them. This is a discussion that obviously has no room for logic. People say us engineers are just defending our profession, but does anyone stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it’s because we’re the ones actually playing the profession and know what we’re talking about? !
lol. Anyone reading this?
Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
I’m perfectly ok with people thinking we’re op. Players hate getting beat, and need excuses, and it makes it easier for me to troll them. This is a discussion that obviously has no room for logic. People say us engineers are just defending our profession, but does anyone stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it’s because we’re the ones actually playing the profession and know what we’re talking about? !
lol. Anyone reading this?
Nope, you learn to filter these arguments while browsing these forums.
Players will defend their spec because KiTtEn with active play.
in solo q vs 4 engies did we have a chance to win?
i guess only if they dced.
gg balance
action combat made mmos better lol
(edited by jihm.2315)
another thief got rekkkkt
month ago I dueled same mesmer for maybe 30+ times and i won only 2-3 times, broken class? U can say anything about my skill, but u can’tkittenloose 30+ times in a raw with OP kitten.
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
another thief got rekkkkt
month ago I dueled same mesmer for maybe 30+ times and i won only 2-3 times, broken class? U can say anything about my skill, but u can’tkittenloose 30+ times in a raw with OP kitten.
Then I have to assume it was off-point, and he was probably a PU-Mesmer as well.
Otherwise, well..
Lysis Kawahara – D/D Elementalist
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Zaphiel Faires – DPS Guardian
Engineers only need 2 changes:
1. Nerf to celestial. That will help with the ele problem as well
2. Nerf to turrets. While not effective in coordinated teams, they are OP in any uncoordinated game. That applies to ALL hot join, ALL solo queue, and 75% of team queue. Remember that most team queue is just pug as well.
another thief got rekkkkt
month ago I dueled same mesmer for maybe 30+ times and i won only 2-3 times, broken class? U can say anything about my skill, but u can’tkittenloose 30+ times in a raw with OP kitten.
Then I have to assume it was off-point, and he was probably a PU-Mesmer as well.
Otherwise, well..
shatter….
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
Be patient when fighting shatter. If you’re dp, you have more stealth than they do. If you’re sd, you have more ports.
Dodge at the right times. Remember, they can pull off a 10k combo by using a short range mirror blade, shatter, mind stab – that’s it. No other requirements needed other than get into your face.
You should be able to beat shatter as a thief.
Engineers only need 2 changes:
1. Nerf to celestial. That will help with the ele problem as well
2. Nerf to turrets. While not effective in coordinated teams, they are OP in any uncoordinated game. That applies to ALL hot join, ALL solo queue, and 75% of team queue. Remember that most team queue is just pug as well.
Can’t nerf Celestial without removing the hybrid option for Rangers, Warriors, Guardians, Mesmers. They aren’t even the best at anything right now, but in some cases they do get used once in a blue moon.
Honestly, for the majority of the professions, Celestial is more inefficient than a condition amulet, or berserker. Soldiers amulet often can be made to provide similar levels of offense and defense.
I’ve tried to make functioning hybrid builds on every profession. For it to actually be good, you need: High condition application, well scaling sustain, and high power damage.
I really think that the outliers that make the Celestial builds, are the Elementalist D/D weapon abilities and Engineer Grenade abilities.
Simply adding Celestial Amulet and might stacks on to a profession that has good scaling from healing (see defensively traited Guardian) doesn’t turn it into a good Celestial build.
I defer to Phanta’s take on D/D Ele right now:
Once Drake’s Breath is shaved down from 3 seconds of burning, base, per tick, to a more reasonable 2 seconds per tick, and Lightning Whip is limited to hitting as fast as it’s intended, it’ll be a fair shave to the Ele’s condition application, and sustain.
For Engineer, it’s pretty much the fact that Grenades do everything. The only ranged pressure you’re going to get on the Engineer profession (excluding auto attacks), a huge array of cover conditions, and lots of power damage.
A reasonable shave would be to reduce the conditions, but that messes with the Rabid builds directly, hitting them even harder, in fact. Shrugs*. A shave to the power damage of grenades in PvP would be smarter.
I’d say if a patch came out that:
1.) Reduced Battle Sigil from 3 stacks of might, to 2. (Edit: In PvP)
2.) Reduced Drake’s Breath from 3 seconds burning per tick, to 2 seconds.
3.) Altered Lightning Whip so it can’t be made into attacking faster than intended.
4.) Reduced the damage of Shrapnel and Freeze Grenades by 15% in PvP.
5.) Undo the recent change of making Frozen Burst (D/D Water 3) into a blast finisher.
We’d pretty much see all of the Celestial builds brought in line without neutering the possibility for Celestial stats on any of the other 6 professions.
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
(edited by Chaith.8256)
Be patient when fighting shatter. If you’re dp, you have more stealth than they do. If you’re sd, you have more ports.
Dodge at the right times. Remember, they can pull off a 10k combo by using a short range mirror blade, shatter, mind stab – that’s it. No other requirements needed other than get into your face.
You should be able to beat shatter as a thief.
Pretty sure he meant he’s playing an Engi
yeap.
my build wasn’t good agaisnt mesmer at all at that moment, but i wanted to try it though =)
Handarand – Handacooon – Handa Panda – Handa Genie
Chaith.8256A reasonable shave would be to reduce the conditions, but that messes with the Rabid builds directly, hitting them even harder, in fact. Shrugs. A shave to the power damage of grenades in PvP would be smarter.
Explain this? It’s not like every engineer meta has been primarily strong condition damage combined with either power (hgh) or defense (rabid with backpack regen/shield/toolkit). 100 nades was an unintended game mechanic gimmick.
The fact is that grenades and bombs are our damage kits. Excluding static discharge, power builds rely on grenades just as much as condition builds do.
Woodstock – Engineer
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodstockGW2
http://www.youtube.com/user/WoodstockGW2
Chaith.8256A reasonable shave would be to reduce the conditions, but that messes with the Rabid builds directly, hitting them even harder, in fact. Shrugs. A shave to the power damage of grenades in PvP would be smarter.
Explain this? It’s not like every engineer meta has been primarily strong condition damage combined with either power (hgh) or defense (rabid with backpack regen/shield/toolkit). 100 nades was an unintended game mechanic gimmick.
The fact is that grenades and bombs are our damage kits. Excluding static discharge, power builds rely on grenades just as much as condition builds do.
Yeah .. I really think that Berserker/Power Engineer is PvP obsolete. It’s too inefficient because there is no damage focused kit Engineer has that’s focused on pure power damage. With Celestial amulet to complement the way conditions are inseparable from the PvP oriented weapon sets and traits, it’s…. way too comparable of damage as when building purely for power.
But I do want relatively viable options to complement most amulet types. So I’m aware that nerfing the power component of Grenades would hurt people that wear Berserker amulets and use Hybrid weapon sets that everyone’s forced to run.
I’m not really sure, man.
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
It seems like people who play engi do not understand, or are not willing to admit, that engineer is currently the strongest class in the game. Is it OP? That is arguable either way. Is is the strongest? The only possible argument there is ele.
Engineer needs some fixing.
How to fix the cele problem: hit em in the battle (and maybe doom) sigil. These two, especially battle, over-perform mathermatically. Taking even 1 stack of might or reducing the duration would actually go a long way to normalizing the tanky celes specs to other sustain-ish specs.
How to fix turret lameness: turrets are no longer structures, can now be crit/conditioned.
Chaith.8256A reasonable shave would be to reduce the conditions, but that messes with the Rabid builds directly, hitting them even harder, in fact. Shrugs. A shave to the power damage of grenades in PvP would be smarter.
Explain this? It’s not like every engineer meta has been primarily strong condition damage combined with either power (hgh) or defense (rabid with backpack regen/shield/toolkit). 100 nades was an unintended game mechanic gimmick.
The fact is that grenades and bombs are our damage kits. Excluding static discharge, power builds rely on grenades just as much as condition builds do.
Yeah .. I really think that Berserker/Power Engineer is PvP obsolete. It’s too inefficient because there is no damage focused kit Engineer has that’s focused on pure power damage. With Celestial amulet to complement the way conditions are inseparable from the PvP oriented weapon sets and traits, it’s…. way too comparable of damage as when building purely for power.
But I do want relatively viable options to complement most amulet types. So I’m aware that nerfing the power component of Grenades would hurt people that wear Berserker amulets and use Hybrid weapon sets that everyone’s forced to run.
I’m not really sure, man.
I don’t agree. The problem of celestial engineers did not exist until the patch where celestial and strength runes came into play. Fix what caused the issue, don’t nerf what was fine before. Power nades and SD 100 mines are some of my favorite builds to play for engineer, far and away more fun than celestial or condi. The application of conditions needs to be more skillful. That’s all. We don’t need to nerf power builds on engineer (god that’s a weird sentence to have to say). Nerf IP, Strength runes and some of the sigils. Leave the rest of the fair engi stuff alone.
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
Message me any time in game.
Chaith.8256A reasonable shave would be to reduce the conditions, but that messes with the Rabid builds directly, hitting them even harder, in fact. Shrugs. A shave to the power damage of grenades in PvP would be smarter.
Explain this? It’s not like every engineer meta has been primarily strong condition damage combined with either power (hgh) or defense (rabid with backpack regen/shield/toolkit). 100 nades was an unintended game mechanic gimmick.
The fact is that grenades and bombs are our damage kits. Excluding static discharge, power builds rely on grenades just as much as condition builds do.
Yeah .. I really think that Berserker/Power Engineer is PvP obsolete. It’s too inefficient because there is no damage focused kit Engineer has that’s focused on pure power damage. With Celestial amulet to complement the way conditions are inseparable from the PvP oriented weapon sets and traits, it’s…. way too comparable of damage as when building purely for power.
But I do want relatively viable options to complement most amulet types. So I’m aware that nerfing the power component of Grenades would hurt people that wear Berserker amulets and use Hybrid weapon sets that everyone’s forced to run.
I’m not really sure, man.
I don’t agree. The problem of celestial engineers did not exist until the patch where celestial and strength runes came into play. Fix what caused the issue, don’t nerf what was fine before. Power nades and SD 100 mines are some of my favorite builds to play for engineer, far and away more fun than celestial or condi. The application of conditions needs to be more skillful. That’s all. We don’t need to nerf power builds on engineer (god that’s a weird sentence to have to say). Nerf IP, Strength runes and some of the sigils. Leave the rest of the fair engi stuff alone.
When Celestial stats were rebalanced to match PvE, I consider that an awaited unlock of old content. I think Engineer should have always been balanced around having the proper itemization for its native hybrid damage type.
Also.. With might runes, cele engies get 9 stacks of might. Eerily similar to the 6-9 stacks of might they get without might runes. The runes are hardly a problem.
I think the proper nerfs to cele engineer extend past pillaging the amulets and runes.
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
I’d say if a patch came out that:
1.) Reduced Battle Sigil from 3 stacks of might, to 2. (Edit: In PvP)
2.) Reduced Drake’s Breath from 3 seconds burning per tick, to 2 seconds.
3.) Altered Lightning Whip so it can’t be made into attacking faster than intended.
4.) Reduced the damage of Shrapnel and Freeze Grenades by 15% in PvP.
5.) Undo the recent change of making Frozen Burst (D/D Water 3) into a blast finisher.
We’d pretty much see all of the Celestial builds brought in line without neutering the possibility for Celestial stats on any of the other 6 professions.
Pretty much this.
Possibly the smartest change is the shave of 1 stack of Might from Battle Sigil. An alternative implementation would be to simply make the Sigil proc either 3 Might for 12 or 15 seconds.
- At 15 seconds, 50% Might Duration is still needed to get 6 Might stacks. 75% Might Duration yields 26.25 seconds per proc, which locks out the third proc (and 9 stack breakpoint) at 27 seconds.
- At 12 seconds, again, 50% Might Duration is needed to get 6 Might stacks, but only if the weapon is swapped on cooldown. Has the potential to make the Sigil a lot less attractive to other classes, though.
As for Engineer specific nerfs to Grenades, I don’t think it’s so much of an issue of Grenades being too strong; but that it does everything you need at a much wider set of ranges than other weapon kits. What’s needed here is a clear definition of the role GK is to play, which in my opinion should be Mid-Long range. (500-1400).
There’s a few methods, some more controversial than others:
1: Removing the impact detonation upon striking a Foe.
- This makes GK a lot less favourable in Melee range, which is where GK has traditionally been strong bordering on OP – from 100nades, to triple-stack Poison Grenade, to the HGH days where even the autoattacks were brutal at 1.33 total Power Coefficient.
2: Normalising Flight time for short range as for long range.
- Basically, throwing Nades in melee gives opponents as much time to dodge as they would if Nades were sailing their way at 500+ range. This change emphasises the long range component of Nades whilst again, making them less favourable in melee.
3: Make GK throw a single powerful Grenade; then rework Grenadier to add a Cluster Bomb functionality like Thief SB 2
- This is an extremely deep rework but it addresses a lot of issues about GK – the fact that Grenadier multiplies Crit-proc and on-hit proc chances by 50% compared to baseline; that it makes Steel Packed Powder extremely strong, but weak for Bomb Kit; and that it makes running Grenadier mandatory when using Grenade Kit.
- This enables un-traited Grenades to be workable again. The Cluster Bomb functionality would entail chaining the skill into “Scatter Submunitions” that makes 3 smaller; weaker; shorter condition duration Grenade detonations. Essentially, Cluster Grenadier becomes the “crit-seeker” function for Nades at the cost of random scatter, less damage, and shorter Condition application
- The downside is that it makes Smartcast mandatory for fear of carpal tunnel; but again, untraited Grenades without the crit-seeking component can be run. This is designing for differentiation over augmentation and thus makes the trait’s effects easier to balance.
Iva Malthias – 80 Engineer
Marellune Malthias – 80 Elementalist
Devil’s Dominion [DD] – Yak’s Bend
Marellune Malthias – 80 Elementalist
Devil’s Dominion [DD] – Yak’s Bend
What’s needed here is a clear definition of the role GK is to play, which in my opinion should be Mid-Long range. (500-1400).
That’s entirely the skill of grenade kit though. It’s not challenging to far cast grenades on point. What is challenging is to get into melee range, get off some close range nades for a spike and get out. Besides, isn’t it obvious that if an engineer has grenade kit and is in melee range that they might use nades to get you away from them? It’s part of their defense. If grenades sucked in melee range, engineers would be eaten alive and have no damage to show for it.
Also, I don’t like the idea of a clusterbomb effect on grenades. Clusterbomb is pretty clunky and only really works because you can use the auto attack and poison while that slow kitten skill is working it’s way over. A kit of clusterbombs would feel really weird.
I’d say if a patch came out that:
1.) Reduced Battle Sigil from 3 stacks of might, to 2. (Edit: In PvP)
2.) Reduced Drake’s Breath from 3 seconds burning per tick, to 2 seconds.
3.) Altered Lightning Whip so it can’t be made into attacking faster than intended.
4.) Reduced the damage of Shrapnel and Freeze Grenades by 15% in PvP.
5.) Undo the recent change of making Frozen Burst (D/D Water 3) into a blast finisher.
We’d pretty much see all of the Celestial builds brought in line without neutering the possibility for Celestial stats on any of the other 6 professions.
Nerfing grenade damage just shoves engineers into a condi/celestial box. As an engineer who really doesn’t like playing either of those, I’d probably just drop the class or stick with the outlier builds like 100 mines. Power on engineer is already considered weak in tPvP. We don’t need to make it worse. Change #4 to a rework on incendiary powder and I think you have a much better set of changes. I definitely agree with the ele changes and the sigil of battle change.
Not to mention, why would a grenade kit be pushed out of a power role thematically and instead pushed into a condi role instead? Who hears “GRENADE!” and thinks “Oh, slow death time”. I never understood why a class that is based around explosions and firearms would dominate the condi scene alongside necromancers. It would also still have grenade barrage, which is 100% a power engineer’s weapon, not condi. It wouldn’t make any sense to nerf the damage of grenades.
Main: Raine Avina (Engineer)
Message me any time in game.
Message me any time in game.
(edited by The Gates Assassin.9827)
I think a simple change to IP would do wonders. The one thing I enjoy about fighting Engineer’s is that most of their skills(outside of IP) are easily telegraphed and can be avoided as such. Very few changes to bring some traits/skills inline with this would do wonders.
Edit:
-Bomb kit: could use some slight tweaks to allow players to identify which bomb is being utilized instead of it being RIGHT before the explosion.
-Grenade Kit: Maybe changing up the utility based upon ranged? Not exactly a fan of nading within melee-range. Could make it so the grenades are a lot less accurate the closer you throw them?
Tool Kit: Only change here would be maybe to put the gearshield on a longer cd? Bring it up to par with warrior stance.
These are just general design changes which could do wonders.
Also, I still don’t think that Celestial/might runes are the main issue here but rather the professions themselves that could use some tweaking. Only three professions can utilize them efficiently(Warrior, Ele, Engineer). Make tweak the professions themselves before the items?
(edited by Arken.3725)
Not to mention, why would a grenade kit be pushed out of a power role thematically and instead pushed into a condi role instead? Who hears “GRENADE!” and thinks “Oh, slow death time”. I never understood why a class that is based around explosions and firearms would dominate the condi scene alongside necromancers. It would also still have grenade barrage, which is 100% a power engineer’s weapon, not condi. It wouldn’t make any sense to nerf the damage of grenades.
I’m so tired of the realism logic
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
I assume your talking about celest rile engi with TK, GK and Elixir S? That has good offense but has one stun break on 60sec cd and almost no condition removal. Its survivability is not on same level as ele and without fire fields its doesn’t stack might like an ele either.
It also has counters Necro, sd Ele, and freaking sb d/x condition ranger are good against them aswell. Also I am starting to see condition mesmers doing quite well against them since the buff to torment on shatter.
Did anyone see the game of MiM vs TC at last week ESL? MiM had thief+Mes+Guard+Ranger and beat TC who I think had multipe engi and celest ele. MiM was able to burst down tagerts faster with thief+Mes and they made good use of portals. Also I dont think celest engi are strong than rabid condi ones.
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Also I dont think celest engi are strong than rabid condi ones.
Well I agreed with just about everything you said right before that part. Celestial Engies definitely have a small leg up on the Rabid counterparts due to the far superior CC.
Phanta, Reevz, Backpack, Myself, lots of players on NA who share the opinion that Cele is better in more situations than the condi variant. It’s not a huge upgrade in strength, it’s just the CC becomes far too lethal. Remember on NA we’re fighting a bunch of Eles, Engies, and Necro/Thief. The Overcharged Shot is so deadly.
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Also I dont think celest engi are strong than rabid condi ones.
Well I agreed with just about everything you said right before that part. Celestial Engies definitely have a small leg up on the Rabid counterparts due to the far superior CC.
Phanta, Reevz, Backpack, Myself, lots of players on NA who share the opinion that Cele is better in more situations than the condi variant. It’s not a huge upgrade in strength, it’s just the CC becomes far too lethal. Remember on NA we’re fighting a bunch of Eles, Engies, and Necro/Thief. The Overcharged Shot is so deadly.
hmmm so you think rifle is stronger than pistol/shield?
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Also I dont think celest engi are strong than rabid condi ones.
Well I agreed with just about everything you said right before that part. Celestial Engies definitely have a small leg up on the Rabid counterparts due to the far superior CC.
Phanta, Reevz, Backpack, Myself, lots of players on NA who share the opinion that Cele is better in more situations than the condi variant. It’s not a huge upgrade in strength, it’s just the CC becomes far too lethal. Remember on NA we’re fighting a bunch of Eles, Engies, and Necro/Thief. The Overcharged Shot is so deadly.
hmmm so you think rifle is stronger than pistol/shield?
In the context of having it in a package with Celestial and Intelligence Sigil, yeah! But marginally.
Forum Lord Chaith
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
Twitch.tv/chaithh
New Twitter: @chaithhh
They should delete turrets from the game. Best fix.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
I don’t really think they would, in all practicality, delete turrets.
It is a main feature of the class and featured in the trailers. Given how after 2 years there’s only been the addition of a Heal skill to each class and some mediocre traits, there is just no way they would have the time to remove all turrets and implement something else.
I understand your frustrations, but it’s probably not going to happen. Not even if my daddy has boatloads of cash, six mansions and is about to acquire HSBC.
5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty
I don’t really think they would, in all practicality, delete turrets.
It is a main feature of the class and featured in the trailers. Given how after 2 years there’s only been the addition of a Heal skill to each class and some mediocre traits, there is just no way they would have the time to remove all turrets and implement something else.I understand your frustrations, but it’s probably not going to happen. Not even if my daddy has boatloads of cash, six mansions and is about to acquire HSBC.
Turrets don’t need to be removed. They need to be toned down. As I’ve said in multiple threads, turrets are OP in hot join, all solo queue matches, and 75% of team queue. It is only at the very top end where they are ok, and that is mostly as a result of good team work and coordination.
The two biggest problems in PvP are engi and ele. I’m not sure what is taking ANET so long to fix these classes.
I’m perfectly ok with people thinking we’re op. Players hate getting beat, and need excuses, and it makes it easier for me to troll them. This is a discussion that obviously has no room for logic. People say us engineers are just defending our profession, but does anyone stop to think that maybe, just maybe, it’s because we’re the ones actually playing the profession and know what we’re talking about? !
lol. Anyone reading this?
Nope, you learn to filter these arguments while browsing these forums.
Players will defend their spec because KiTtEn with active play.
So no counter arguments, just two people that hate engineers agreeing with each other in a sad attempt to maintain ego. And as far as your active game play goes, how many times do engineers have to say that none of us like the IP trait and would love to see it changed? Again, logic falls on deaf ears to forum qq’ers.