Guild Wars 2

With a rune set and sigil this class is able to build and maintain 25 stacks of might thats 875 power 875 condition damage through out a fight resulting in the most over powered dps in the game.

Necros are scarce in the spvp because HGH has taken their place why have boon stripping along to counter bunkers when you can bring a class with such strong dps that you can just burn through their boons with dps alone along with any reinforcements.

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

Do necros need a buff sure, but this is our real balance problem.

IMO, red circles should appear to show where the nades will land. I just see explosions come out of nowhere and can’t tell if they are friendly or not. If there are already red circles and I just can’t seem to see them (which is possible) then nevermind.

I think that you go down from one grenade shot is an overexaggeration. They sure do huge damage but I think dont think they´re hard to counter.

But the discussion was already there a few hundred times… Just do some search on the forum and revive a thread.
There you can already find people saying that engi damage is op because of their 25 might stacks and others who say they´re easy to counter because of grenades travel time and projectile reflects and their lack of stability.

Cero.5132:

I think that you go down from one grenade shot is an overexaggeration. They sure do huge damage but I think dont think they´re hard to counter.

But the discussion was already there a few hundred times… Just do some search on the forum and revive a thread.
There you can already find people saying that engi damage is op because of their 25 might stacks and others who say they´re easy to counter because of grenades travel time and projectile reflects and their lack of stability.

Yes there is one already and he had posted in it. He just felt the need to have multiple threads about it.

well nobody whant hear, but also
engi has taken the place of trapper rangers :P

but dont think hgh engi ist to strong, good assist on him
and he will die fast enough

HGH has no survivability outside of Elixer S and two dodges…….just call a target on the engy and put pressure on him and he’ll go down fast. Theyre no harder to deal with than backstab thieves imho….

Thesilentflute.8761:

With a rune set and sigil this class is able to build and maintain 25 stacks of might thats 875 power 875 condition damage through out a fight resulting in the most over powered dps in the game.

Necros are scarce in the spvp because HGH has taken their place why have boon stripping along to counter bunkers when you can bring a class with such strong dps that you can just burn through their boons with dps alone along with any reinforcements.

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

Do necros need a buff sure, but this is our real balance problem.

HGH condi engies are not spikey at all, even with full might stacks they need to wear you down with condis their direct damage is only moderate. If you save your condi removal to get rid of burn/high stacks of bleed (instead of just hitting it whenever you see any condis up on you) you cancel out a lot of their damage. They also have little to disengage with and generally only one defensive CD which means they are fairly easy to lock down and weak against focus fire. Grenades are hard to land at range unless the target is bad and doesn’t know how to look up and get out of the way, the arch is fairly slow at range distances. They’are also much weaker in team fights against enemies that know to keep spread out while grenades are flying not allowing nades to hit multiple targets at once. They’are also very weak against anything that removes or steals boons (which in tourneys is includes thieves and mesmers, which are very common classes). I’m not saying the build is UP but it’s not OP it has plenty of counters and weaknesses. It’s actually a good example of a balanced build.

xantosnightwish.5438:

HGH has no survivability outside of Elixer S and two dodges…….just call a target on the engy and put pressure on him and he’ll go down fast. Theyre no harder to deal with than backstab thieves imho….

Most hgh engies run elixir r instead of s. If people imob an hgh engie they have no defence except toss there elixirs to remove one condi(which might have been used to stack might). If it removes something other then the imob the engie’s pretty much going down.

I feel it is topical to state that Engineer is my favorite (most played) profession, the following is my opinion.

If nerfing HGH would result in serious positive attention to current Engineer traits, gadgets, turrets and Kits I would be the first to volunteer a reduction in HGH’s incredible prowess in Structured PvP. But currently, viable builds are far and few between in the end game meta. Every decent gimmick build you can imagine is simply tipping the scales in one direction while sacrificing effectiveness in another, where HGH has so much versatility in Tournament play and very little weaknesses particularly with a team that is aware of how to compliment this build. There for my point:

By all means Nerf the fire out of HGH but please create some build diversity (sorry, broken record) by making some changes to the other abilitys.

I was dueling with a kit engi on my ranger and they seemed pretty good sure not hgh good but there is nothing that matches their dps class/spec. Also bunker engi is both effective and easy to play.

About my thief being one shot and dodging slow moving grenades, they are not slow moving when the engi is tossing them at their feet and with elixir s and protection the engi is not squishy at all.

Edit: Elixir S = transform. drink elixir s to shrink yourself , recover from stun and evade attacks
Duration 3s
Breaks Stuns

For the love of christ people, the build is hardly run anymore except for the occasional noob. If almost every single person who plays engi at a decent level has given up on HGH, why the hell does it need to be nerfed?

The simple truth is that it PREVIOUSLY was incredibly overpowered and I was the first one to scream it on the highest mountain tops. I was the guy who popularized the standard variation and back in the day it simply over the top. With the changes to both incendiary powder, elixir S and the popularization of classes with lots of boon hate it’s extremely difficult to justify any nerfs to HGH.

At the end of the day it won’t matter to me, anyways. But your hatred is misplcaed for sure. If you’re having trouble with HGH engis then you seriously need to take a look at yourself rather than the build. Knowledge of the build itself is the greatest asset to beating it.

If you didn’t know what a thieves strengths and weaknesses were, how can you expect to beat him?

Thank god they dont balance based on hotjoin QQ.

While I do not have as much exp as some 800 tpvp matches is more than enough to point out obvious imbalances. The only thing I QQ about in hot join is when people take the time to kill my mortar lol.

The golden age of HGH is gone.

I am tired of people claiming that engineers are omgzord good at bunkering, so they still have a role if hgh gets smiters booned.

They are tanky sure, and they can backup bunker a close (bunkering close is basically a consolation price for not being a proper bunker, not to mention a mesmer can handle close while being an asset to the team somewhere else, somewhere important.) Engi bunkers can tank out single players for long periods (thats why they are close) but bunkering the center? Nah let the real bunker guardian or ele do that, we haven’t even got any decent stability (lolstandyourground&co) and if we go for a boon build we usually miss a lot of the tools from kits that we really, really need. It’s not a bad bunker, we got some nice amount of control with bomb kit and toolkit and its ridiculous how many i see who do not know how to cope with elixir R (knock him out of it) but usually your group would pick an ele or guardian for bunkering if it wasn’t because you are a guildie or something.

It would ironically be the position necros are right now thanks to engies- goood, but if you aren’t the best go home.

We are able to bunker any point, we have stability from one of our f1-4 skills and 3 push backs as a bombkit bunker. I have seen some guys go elixergun I have never done it myself so they may not have them.

Where we surpass guards is our immunity to condi dmg at 25% I might go down a lil fast but ill stay at 25% or just below for an eternity. This also makes us a lil more resistant to corrupt boon.

Thesilentflute.8761:

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

News flash: HGH engineers have already been nerfed in several ways.

One grenade killed you and your health was?

Look at this skill:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade

The damage multiplier is 0.31, unadjusted damage at level 80 is 107. Even with grenadier grandmaster trait and all 3 grenades hitting the same target nobody goes down from full health from 3 grenades using pvp gear.

Compare this e.g. with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab
unadjusted damage at level 80 is 806.

So assuming that your thief and engineer have exactly same power rating your backstab will still do 2.5 times more damage than 3 grenades combined. Then there are traits like hidden killer or the executioner.Talk about overpowered…

If you want to beat HGH engineers, I would advice to avoid fighting in medium or melee range unless you play a perma dodge build. Grenades rarely hit past 750 range unless you stand still, thus staying at longer range most of the combat is your best option. Wait for the right moment and then engage. With shadow’s embrace adept trait you can remove a condition every time you enter a stealth and every 3 seconds while you stay in stealth.

I don’t think that HGH is op by any means. I don’t have problems dealing with them on my warrior so go figure.

Cero.5132:

I think that you go down from one grenade shot is an overexaggeration.

An engi with 15 stacks of might, flamethrower and grenades throwing a single Shrapnel Grenade can deal 17s of burning and 3 15s stacks of bleeding, resulting in ~15.5k damage if not cleansed.

Does that happen all the time? No. Can this happen? Yes.

As long as hgh engis stay at ranged, they aren’t OP. but once they close with you (or you them) it is game over. They can stack a lot of conditions on you and the grenades don’t tickle either. Oh and they can throw them all at their feet in 2 seconds.

It would be fine if it was single target stuff, but it’s a fairly large AoE.

Also, does anybody’s fps drop to the floor when they unload their grenades at the same time?

Thesilentflute.8761:

With a rune set and sigil this class is able to build and maintain 25 stacks of might thats 875 power 875 condition damage through out a fight resulting in the most over powered dps in the game.

Necros are scarce in the spvp because HGH has taken their place why have boon stripping along to counter bunkers when you can bring a class with such strong dps that you can just burn through their boons with dps alone along with any reinforcements.

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

Do necros need a buff sure, but this is our real balance problem.

I have no pity at all for you. You play a thief. If there is something that can rofl you, stopping you from perma stealthing your way around, executing victims then HOORAY.

Varonth.5830:

Cero.5132:

I think that you go down from one grenade shot is an overexaggeration.

An engi with 15 stacks of might, flamethrower and grenades throwing a single Shrapnel Grenade can deal 17s of burning and 3 15s stacks of bleeding, resulting in ~15.5k damage if not cleansed.

Does that happen all the time? No. Can this happen? Yes.

This topic is about HGH engineer. I think it should be clear by now that the usual HGH engineer doesn´t use flamethrower.
So you´re off with your estimated burning duration which should result in a damage loss of 8.4k.

I´ll give you the real numbers of the full damage of one shrapnel grenade, including condition damage. And I´ll be generous and say all 3 grenades are crits… which you´ll find wont make much difference overall.
I rounded some of the numbers up.

Shrapnel grenade crit with 15 stacks of might ~620*3 = 1860
Burning damage with 15 stacks might ~ 700 * 5 = 3500
Bleeding damage with 15 stacks might 120 * 3 * 15 = 5400
1860 + 3500 + 5400 = 10760

Sure that´s a kitten lot of damage but it takes 15 (!) seconds to do all the damage and only 5 seconds to do ~ 75% of its damage.
So it is possible to oneshot guardians, thieves and eles who didnt invest one point into vitality and got no condiremove with them… Which is unlikely for 2 of the 3.
I´ll be honest here and say that I´ve never oneshotted anyone with a shrapnel grenade before.
It´s possible, sure. But unlikely to happen.

By the way, I´d really love to know where your estimated 15.5k damage come from.

This is funny because the OP is a thief. And thieves can rip into HGH engineers, even pre-nerf. They are so squishy, all you had to was get a good burst on them are they pop. That’s all you still need to do, if anyone still plays it.

I think grenades should move as fast as thief cluster bombs, after all it’s the exact same thing but one is infinitly spammable, goes insanly fast and has 1500 range.

The bomb has been planted.

/runsaway

AmuseDarkly.2430:

Thesilentflute.8761:

With a rune set and sigil this class is able to build and maintain 25 stacks of might thats 875 power 875 condition damage through out a fight resulting in the most over powered dps in the game.

Necros are scarce in the spvp because HGH has taken their place why have boon stripping along to counter bunkers when you can bring a class with such strong dps that you can just burn through their boons with dps alone along with any reinforcements.

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

Do necros need a buff sure, but this is our real balance problem.

I have no pity at all for you. You play a thief. If there is something that can rofl you, stopping you from perma stealthing your way around, executing victims then HOORAY.

:D I play around on thief a bit for the title along with a few others I main ranger/mes and play around on thief/engi/necro for titles and group comp, that way I have boon striper/bunker/roamer toons when needed for solo que comp. Title prog R 100% M 100% E 50% T 30% N 5-10%

Hgh nade engi isn’t that great really. Honestly I barely see any engi run it anymore.

Thesilentflute.8761:

We are able to bunker any point, we have stability from one of our f1-4 skills and 3 push backs as a bombkit bunker. I have seen some guys go elixergun I have never done it myself so they may not have them.

We haven’t got any reliable means of getting stability. Toss elixir S can give either that or stealth, and both have got quite different uses.

Thesilentflute.8761:

Where we surpass guards is our immunity to condi dmg at 25% I might go down a lil fast but ill stay at 25% or just below for an eternity. This also makes us a lil more resistant to corrupt boon.

Conditions already applied continue to cause damage anyway. They just have to dps us. Not too difficult, since we also lack reliable means of getting protection – we’ve got skills that can give that as random effect, or major traits that must be activated (by disabling us or with a critical hit – still, the first one is too situational – we don’t get disabled every 5 seconds – and the second one has a 20s cooldown for 3s protection).
So, no. We aren’t on par at all with guardians as bunkers. And neither with eles, anyway.

Resouled.5614:

Hgh nade engi isn’t that great really. Honestly I barely see any engi run it anymore.

And aren’t d/d ele’s still the original hgh engy? In terms of might stacking.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

IMO, red circles should appear to show where the nades will land. I just see explosions come out of nowhere and can’t tell if they are friendly or not. If there are already red circles and I just can’t seem to see them (which is possible) then nevermind.

/thread

this NEEDS to happen

shockwave.1764:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

IMO, red circles should appear to show where the nades will land. I just see explosions come out of nowhere and can’t tell if they are friendly or not. If there are already red circles and I just can’t seem to see them (which is possible) then nevermind.

/thread

this NEEDS to happen

/signed

Also, that 25% hp immunity to conditions is a bit stupid to me. It’s the best defense against conditions in the game and most condition builds aren’t carrying enough attack power to out heal protection/regeneration and to completely stop damage (using elixir to convert all conditions to boons = gg) is just too much. If it’s a condi necro, it’s a death sentence because we can’t disengage so you will either outlast us or burn us down with nade spam from all the might stacks that we can’t control any longer. Basically it makes us completely void and I don’t think any trait should totally cancel and entire build. I can’t speak for anything but Condi Mesmer and Condi Necro, but condi necro is basically a wet noodle at that point.

Chesire.9043:

… If it’s a condi necro, it’s a death sentence because we can’t disengage so you will either outlast us or burn us down with nade spam from all the might stacks that we can’t control any longer. Basically it makes us completely void and I don’t think any trait should totally cancel and entire build. I can’t speak for anything but Condi Mesmer and Condi Necro, but condi necro is basically a wet noodle at that point.

Playing Condi Necro is a death sentence in and of itself in tournies at this point. Until the rework there isn’t really a reason to use one where so many other professions are better at producing condition pressure. Sure Epidemic can flip a fight, but unless you are landing a clutch Epidemic every 20s or so you are hurting your team by running the necro. If you are landing a good Epidemic that often, then you are just playing against baddies, so you may as well have brought a D/P thief to farm them more quickly.

Anyway, on topic, HGH isn’t useless, but it isn’t out of control like it was pre-nerf. I think it is in an ok spot, but I do endorse the “red circle implementation”. Most of the value in condition damage at present is derived from high burning up time, and Engi can do that, but so can others, so meh. I expect there will be more boon strips added in the coming patches anyway, so HGH will be even less of an issue as more builds come into existence that can easily counter them.

are people really still running this?

you are proposing changes to nades in general to nerf 25 stacks of might? ohh nice good idea lets nerf grenades to DUST even more

are you aware this build pooped out because engi is so terrible at anything that he has to stack might like a kittentard to be semi-viable?

Srsly though – if you have an issue with might stacking the MIGHT STACKING needs to be addressed! Other Classes have massive might stacking potential as well (Necro, Warrior, Ele , Thief might->BS build) Honestly if grenades will start having red aoe rings they might as well be removed from the game. Its hard enough to hit these kitteners against decent players as it is. Luckily enough there arent many good players around (hi @ OP)

Personally i think as soon as your opposing team has a S/D thief you`re a liability to your team so i dont run might stacking.

Pretty much the same thing with mesmers – as soon as your enemy team has a boon removal shatter mesm HgH becomes sub par – not longer dangerous to your own team but still. If the mesm knows what hes doing you`re not going to have all that much might (which you need btw cuz you`re giving up a lot of other kitten obviously)

also its funny how in this thread again the class in question is able to do EVERYTHING at once and get all traits at the same time

Massive HgH aoe condi burst + condi application immunity at 25%hp – sure thats going to happen ./facepalm

RaynStargaze.6510:

are people really still running this?

you are proposing changes to nades in general to nerf 25 stacks of might? ohh nice good idea lets nerf grenades to DUST even more

are you aware this build pooped out because engi is so terrible at anything that he has to stack might like a kittentard to be semi-viable?

Srsly though – if you have an issue with might stacking the MIGHT STACKING needs to be addressed! Other Classes have massive might stacking potential as well (Necro, Warrior, Ele , Thief might->BS build) Honestly if grenades will start having red aoe rings they might as well be removed from the game. Its hard enough to hit these kitteners against decent players as it is. Luckily enough there arent many good players around (hi @ OP)

Personally i think as soon as your opposing team has a S/D thief you`re a liability to your team so i dont run might stacking.

Pretty much the same thing with mesmers – as soon as your enemy team has a boon removal shatter mesm HgH becomes sub par – not longer dangerous to your own team but still. If the mesm knows what hes doing you`re not going to have all that much might (which you need btw cuz you`re giving up a lot of other kitten obviously)

You are proposing that the highest dps spec in the game is some how under par, but the only viable build. That the counter measures for this dps class are that of a bunker classes counters, but it is balanced… these are contradictions; and your belief that HGH is the only viable spec for an engi speaks for your own skill lv not others friend.

Thesilentflute.8761:

With a rune set and sigil this class is able to build and maintain 25 stacks of might thats 875 power 875 condition damage through out a fight resulting in the most over powered dps in the game.

Necros are scarce in the spvp because HGH has taken their place why have boon stripping along to counter bunkers when you can bring a class with such strong dps that you can just burn through their boons with dps alone along with any reinforcements.

When faced with any melee opposition they just grenade their feet and kill them in seconds. My thief can withstand 1k blades from a war, but one grenade shot from HGH engineer and he is down.

Do necros need a buff sure, but this is our real balance problem.

You must be a baddy to play a mesmer/thief and still get owned. Guess OP classes can’t carry everyone. Mayhaps you should familiarize your self with common tactics and other classes abilities.

HGH Engi are just fine..
A strong build,so what?

Guardians since day one is an unreplaceble proffession in any team..Now thats an issue

Thesilentflute.8761:

RaynStargaze.6510:

are people really still running this?

you are proposing changes to nades in general to nerf 25 stacks of might? ohh nice good idea lets nerf grenades to DUST even more

are you aware this build pooped out because engi is so terrible at anything that he has to stack might like a kittentard to be semi-viable?

Srsly though – if you have an issue with might stacking the MIGHT STACKING needs to be addressed! Other Classes have massive might stacking potential as well (Necro, Warrior, Ele , Thief might->BS build) Honestly if grenades will start having red aoe rings they might as well be removed from the game. Its hard enough to hit these kitteners against decent players as it is. Luckily enough there arent many good players around (hi @ OP)

Personally i think as soon as your opposing team has a S/D thief you`re a liability to your team so i dont run might stacking.

Pretty much the same thing with mesmers – as soon as your enemy team has a boon removal shatter mesm HgH becomes sub par – not longer dangerous to your own team but still. If the mesm knows what hes doing you`re not going to have all that much might (which you need btw cuz you`re giving up a lot of other kitten obviously)

You are proposing that the highest dps spec in the game is some how under par, but the only viable build. That the counter measures for this dps class are that of a bunker classes counters, but it is balanced… these are contradictions; and your belief that HGH is the only viable spec for an engi speaks for your own skill lv not others friend.

No i proposed nothing of the garbage you imply having “read”. You did not ACTUALLY READ what i wrote at all. In fact there are other strong counters to HgH engis but if you cant figure them out im not going to tell so you keep losing.

Your arguments are horrendous and ridicolous. Bunkers may be countered by boon removal (even though thats kinda not true – see BM ranger).

But having your bunkers protection buff stolen vs giving the opponents SD thief 20 stacks of might for 20+ seconds is a HUGE game defining difference which you might not be able to pick up with your sub par intellect.

Talking about sub par intellect i tried looking you up on gw2 shack to see where u rank on leaderboards and tadaaaah no entries have been found.. honestly i made it to top 1000 with SoloQ on 2 Accounts because top 1000 is easy. If u cant even do that you probably shouldnt call other ppl bad.

DPS also means nothing in a game that is not about hitting immovable target golems (or bad low rank players like silentflute who stay stationairy and dont see the obvious engineer skill cues) who never cleanse condis. Burst is way more useful in pvp for obvious reasons…

Edit: I ended up googling “silentflute.8761” by accident instead of thesilentflute… guess what the top result was

I dont even play a HGH Engi..Why ppl want so much every class be easy killable from their own favorite class..Why dont you just enjoy the game with what every class can bring on the table?
When i play with my Mesmer i cant beat BM Rangers in 1v1 but i can contribute more to team fights than when i play with Ranger.Sure i would like to be able to join team fights with my Ranger and BM Ranger becomes weaker in 1v1 and stronger at teamfights,Sure some things need to be toned down but why every thing that is killed us some times need to be nerfed to the ground so we wont lose again…
OK I LOST,SO WHAT???

and just an fyi, You can’t run condition immunity under 25% and HGH at the same time… so you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

RaynStargaze.6510:

are people really still running this?

you are proposing changes to nades in general to nerf 25 stacks of might? ohh nice good idea lets nerf grenades to DUST even more

are you aware this build pooped out because engi is so terrible at anything that he has to stack might like a kittentard to be semi-viable?

Srsly though – if you have an issue with might stacking the MIGHT STACKING needs to be addressed! Other Classes have massive might stacking potential as well (Necro, Warrior, Ele , Thief might->BS build) Honestly if grenades will start having red aoe rings they might as well be removed from the game. Its hard enough to hit these kitteners against decent players as it is. Luckily enough there arent many good players around (hi @ OP)

Personally i think as soon as your opposing team has a S/D thief you`re a liability to your team so i dont run might stacking.

Pretty much the same thing with mesmers – as soon as your enemy team has a boon removal shatter mesm HgH becomes sub par – not longer dangerous to your own team but still. If the mesm knows what hes doing you`re not going to have all that much might (which you need btw cuz you`re giving up a lot of other kitten obviously)

lolwut.

Engi is probably the strongest class by far, even more than guardians (altough guardian is unreplaceble).

You can basically put points at random and still have a decent build: the engi is the class with the better selection of traits, better sinergies, with only gadgets being heavily subpar.

People like to complain, just like they do with warriors simply because the can only run GS and like to play selfish without teamplaying.

HGH is fine, in high end PvP i see only Mouby still playing it: engies already moved on from that build.

Just put red circles for the AoE and it’s done.

/thread.

@raynstargaze aka:???
Lol I didn’t say you were bad, just that your perception was off. You have a nice rank in eu. I am sure you farmed allot of solo quers to get it, but win/loss of 267/180 isn’t a lot of exp I am just glad you were not one of the guys that are 12/2 and in the top 50 I mean something like that would kill any validity you might have had.

…But with your superior intellect I am sure you already knew that. : )

As for my own record you could have just asked, keep in mind I play all the time guild mates on or not, good teams on or not. Win/loss 412/388 it is a pretty good record for a mostly solo que, but maybe the player base is better in eu you will have to fill me in on that one.

@Dardamaniac
The posts I make have very little to do with my personal win/loss verses any class I look at things mechanically and explain the imbalances the thief example was meant to show the severity of the problem the reason I made the comparison with 1k blades. I have no favorite class I fill what ever roll is needed for my group, though I do consider ranger/mes my mains. only because they have the best prog in pve world. They actually get the least play of my toons lol.

capnkewl.5019:

and just an fyi, You can’t run condition immunity under 25% and HGH at the same time… so you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.

Fyi we were talking about bunkers in that post re-read

like i said, it’s just an fyi.

red circles would be less effective than you’d think. Not only that but grenades themselves also spread while they’re in the air so the “circle” an engi throws down expands and ends up creating a unique bulls-eye that, when not hit, lands only 1-2 grenades instead of 3.

I personally don’t think the circles are needed and would greatly add to the clutter that people already complain about. It would be an unnecessary nerf to nades.

Mrbig.8019:

lolwut.

Engi is probably the strongest class by far, even more than guardians (altough guardian is unreplaceble).

You can basically put points at random and still have a decent build: the engi is the class with the better selection of traits, better sinergies, with only gadgets being heavily subpar.

People like to complain, just like they do with warriors simply because the can only run GS and like to play selfish without teamplaying.

HGH is fine, in high end PvP i see only Mouby still playing it: engies already moved on from that build.

Just put red circles for the AoE and it’s done.

/thread.

Lol, no.
Turrets are crap. We have to deploy them on wall to hope they won’t be killed…and even then, often their shots will be blocked by the wall themselves. Still, any enemy that will target them or use an aoe will obliterate them. Even when fully traited.
Kits? Half of them need to be traited to be decent. Still, we will take those…cause the other traits are a waste of points. Autodefense bomb dispenser?Lol. Coated bullets? Double lol – we have, like, two skills that work with it; one of those is the weak autoattack;Adrenal implant & Armor Mods? Triple lol.
We can’t put points at random at all…we’re basically forced to take the traits relative to the kits we’re using, cause they’re kinda poor otherwise.
Grenades without grenadier (and steel-packed powder) would be usekitten mbs need the larger explosion radius to even try hitting someone. Flamethrower’s damage is so poor that even the might provided can’t make up for the damage. The others haven’t even got grandmaster traits. And only true multi-kit trait we had has been reduced to utter crap (Kit Refinement).
Not to talk about the placement of the traits themselves. Rifle traits? All in the precision/cond.damage tree…but just a single skill there does condition damage (4 stacks of bleeding in the best case. Elixir gun? Same tree as before; 2 skills who do condition damage (it also affect flamethrower, so three conditions affected in total). The other one is in the alchemy tree…vitality and boon duration; neither flamethrower or elixir gun give boons – just a toolbelt skill does, 10s regen, 40s cooldown.
50 points alone are necessary for bombs. 30 of those just for a grandmaster trait – there is nothing else in that tree, regarding bombs; and the healing provided is quite poor anyway.
Grenade kit is the only one who has got a good sinergy, basically. All the traits are in the explosives tree. Albeit, they’re useless without traits, so you’re basically forced to take those.
And elixirs, all the useful ones are in the alchemy tree, so you have to spend just 30 points to set them up. But they give boons and they are in the boon duration tree, so it works well.
We should be versatile. Instead, we must overspecialize just to be decent.
HGH build is the apotheosis of that: stacking lots and lots of might to make up for the poor damage, in a build that can only do damage and nothing else.

Manuhell.2759:

Mrbig.8019:

lolwut.

Engi is probably the strongest class by far, even more than guardians (altough guardian is unreplaceble).

You can basically put points at random and still have a decent build: the engi is the class with the better selection of traits, better sinergies, with only gadgets being heavily subpar.

People like to complain, just like they do with warriors simply because the can only run GS and like to play selfish without teamplaying.

HGH is fine, in high end PvP i see only Mouby still playing it: engies already moved on from that build.

Just put red circles for the AoE and it’s done.

/thread.

Lol, no.
Turrets are crap. We have to deploy them on wall to hope they won’t be killed…and even then, often their shots will be blocked by the wall themselves. Still, any enemy that will target them or use an aoe will obliterate them. Even when fully traited.
Kits? Half of them need to be traited to be decent. Still, we will take those…cause the other traits are a waste of points. Autodefense bomb dispenser?Lol. Coated bullets? Double lol – we have, like, two skills that work with it; one of those is the weak autoattack;Adrenal implant & Armor Mods? Triple lol.
We can’t put points at random at all…we’re basically forced to take the traits relative to the kits we’re using, cause they’re kinda poor otherwise.
Grenades without grenadier (and steel-packed powder) would be usekitten mbs need the larger explosion radius to even try hitting someone. Flamethrower’s damage is so poor that even the might provided can’t make up for the damage. The others haven’t even got grandmaster traits. And only true multi-kit trait we had has been reduced to utter crap (Kit Refinement).
Not to talk about the placement of the traits themselves. Rifle traits? All in the precision/cond.damage tree…but just a single skill there does condition damage (4 stacks of bleeding in the best case. Elixir gun? Same tree as before; 2 skills who do condition damage (it also affect flamethrower, so three conditions affected in total). The other one is in the alchemy tree…vitality and boon duration; neither flamethrower or elixir gun give boons – just a toolbelt skill does, 10s regen, 40s cooldown.
50 points alone are necessary for bombs. 30 of those just for a grandmaster trait – there is nothing else in that tree, regarding bombs; and the healing provided is quite poor anyway.
Grenade kit is the only one who has got a good sinergy, basically. All the traits are in the explosives tree. Albeit, they’re useless without traits, so you’re basically forced to take those.
And elixirs, all the useful ones are in the alchemy tree, so you have to spend just 30 points to set them up. But they give boons and they are in the boon duration tree, so it works well.
We should be versatile. Instead, we must overspecialize just to be decent.
HGH build is the apotheosis of that: stacking lots and lots of might to make up for the poor damage, in a build that can only do damage and nothing else.

O_o

Flamethrower is used by most top engies in EU.

Ostrich eggs uses bomb and nades togheter and is the king of condi AoE ( bunkers literally MELT, like any other class) .

elixir gun is a blast for bunkering and i’ve seen tons of top engies trying it ( even ostrich eggs if i recall correctly).

Toolkit is also very strong for power nades engies, a very underrated build, especially if you have a good team supporting your damage ( and defending you, since you’re very squishy).

The engie has one of the best traits out there, in a single tree there are MAYBE 2-3 bad traits out there ( aside the tool tree, which has 4-5) .

take a look at other classes: all classes traits, aside guardians’, are in the opposite situation; 3-4 traits PER TREE are good while all the rest is utterly crap.

The engi is in a great place regarding balance and HGH is by no means engie strongest build: in fact it offers only damage, has no CC, is easily coutnerable, goes down like a fly if focused.

As usual my advice is to learn your profession better and take a look at other classes instead of crying on forums.

Mrbig.8019:

You can basically put points at random and still have a decent build: the engi is the class with the better selection of traits, better sinergies, with only gadgets being heavily subpar.

AHAHAHAHAHA

i should screenshot this and post it to the engi board

RaynStargaze.6510:

Mrbig.8019:

You can basically put points at random and still have a decent build: the engi is the class with the better selection of traits, better sinergies, with only gadgets being heavily subpar.

AHAHAHAHAHA

i should screenshot this and post it to the engi board

According to forums, all classes suck balls, all classes should be nerfed, all classes should be buffed, all players should L2P.

The engi is one of the profession in the best place, has more than 2 viable builds, is top tier.

Cry as much as you want, this is a fact.

And all engi builds are perfectly fine, neither OP nor UP.

Try to play a condi thief, a condi mesmer, a power necro, a glass cannon guardian, a power ranger, A WARRIOR in tPvP then come back.

/rant

Ostricheggs.3742:

For the love of christ people, the build is hardly run anymore except for the occasional noob. If almost every single person who plays engi at a decent level has given up on HGH, why the hell does it need to be nerfed?

The simple truth is that it PREVIOUSLY was incredibly overpowered and I was the first one to scream it on the highest mountain tops. I was the guy who popularized the standard variation and back in the day it simply over the top. With the changes to both incendiary powder, elixir S and the popularization of classes with lots of boon hate it’s extremely difficult to justify any nerfs to HGH.

At the end of the day it won’t matter to me, anyways. But your hatred is misplcaed for sure. If you’re having trouble with HGH engis then you seriously need to take a look at yourself rather than the build. Knowledge of the build itself is the greatest asset to beating it.

If you didn’t know what a thieves strengths and weaknesses were, how can you expect to beat him?

Just kind of curious as to why you think HGH is unplayable at the moment. I have beaten Booty Bakery and both SOAC teams while on HGH and I can even remember beating you 1v1 a few times.

That said i’m sure you are a better player than me and more experienced. When I killed you there were complains of you having no condition removal yet HGH has ok condi removal. So why is HGH trash now? Is it because of the s/d theifs? Because I will admit the good ones do give me trouble. Other then that though I feel like I can basically 1v1 anything in the game if I play well. Not counting good necros since they don’t exist of course.

OP: I don’t think HGH needs a nerf. A few other things just need a buff to get them into the meta. Oh and grenade circles would be stupid for many reasons.

Mrbig.8019:

Flamethrower is used by most top engies in EU.

Mostly for control purposes -air blast and smoke vent. The autoattack is an harm for the user.

Mrbig.8019:

Ostrich eggs uses bomb and nades togheter and is the king of condi AoE ( bunkers literally MELT, like any other class) .

More like, we only have those kinds of attacks. We’re kinda lacking in the single target department. Oh, it is fine if you are against some groups – as long as they aren’t focusing on you (you’ve got just a single utility slot left, so either you get a condition removal or a tool kit for the gear shield; either way, you haven’t got much to defend yourself).
But versus an ele or guardian bunker? No way. We haven’t got reliable ways of getting protection or stability and neither their healing capabilities.

elixir gun is a blast for bunkering and i’ve seen tons of top engies trying it ( even ostrich eggs if i recall correctly).

There are two skill there that helps bunkering, super elixir and healing mist.

Toolkit is also very strong for power nades engies, a very underrated build, especially if you have a good team supporting your damage ( and defending you, since you’re very squishy).

Mostly because we aren’t that good as far as direct damage go.

The engie has one of the best traits out there, in a single tree there are MAYBE 2-3 bad traits out there ( aside the tool tree, which has 4-5) .

take a look at other classes: all classes traits, aside guardians’, are in the opposite situation; 3-4 traits PER TREE are good while all the rest is utterly crap.

As i said above, a good amount of the traits is located basically in the wrong tree, according to what the weapons affected really do.

The engi is in a great place regarding balance and HGH is by no means engie strongest build: in fact it offers only damage, has no CC, is easily coutnerable, goes down like a fly if focused.

I did say the same above as well. Overspecialization, to make up for the poor base damage – since are basically hybrid weapons as far as damage types go. All the traits are aimed on powering up grenades/explosions or on optimizing elixirs.

As usual my advice is to learn your profession better and take a look at other classes instead of crying on forums.

I would rather advice you to learn the engineer profession better instead of giving misinformation.