Guild Wars 2

FrownyClown.8402:

I don’t find pvp fun because I don’t get to use the same gear I do in pve/wvw.

are you talking about looks or stats?!
I hope its looks though…

I remember hearing it wasn’t possible to provide a TDM mode due to no solid healer role but, honestly you could have no solid healer roles in gw1 RA with decent support and a decent team meta/counter and face similar groups with no heals. Besides the additional skills and traits make it completely possible to have both TDM meta/counters that flush versus using conquest meta/counters that flush.

The skills and traits and maps to do so just isn’t here yet but, I’d love to know if Anet has plans to add a TDM.

IDarko.4709:

Give Arena hoster the ability to choose teamsize (5v5 for death match and 20v20 for GvG or just death match madness, haha!). Maybe a way for Arena hosters to toggle food buffs as well?

Foodbuffs

wat

FrownyClown.8402:

I don’t find pvp fun because I don’t get to use the same gear I do in pve/wvw.

Well boo kittening hooo. Guess what, you can be the king of PvE/WvW for all I care, but you come to PvP and you know squat, so why should you be equipped with stuff you gained in a totally different way?

CoF armor in PvE = max 2 days
CoF armor in PvP = good luck getting it atleast after 5-6 monthes of non-stop grinding

This PvE entitlement to get everything annoys me more than anything.

PvErs have UNIQUE SKINS to PVE. [fractal skins, champion loot skins, vision of the mists, etc, Living Story skins (that we need to pve in order to get for pvp)].

PvErs have the best time-reward ratio. You even get more achievement points that gets you more achievement rewards that also include pvp stuff or zenith skins that look amazing and you can use them in PvP.

You walk into PvP and you have no skins.

We walk into PvE and have no skins and stats.

Quit whining about this kitten now.

He probably means stats, which I whole-heartedly agree with. The game plays a lot better with pve gear than pvp gear.

dreztina.4820:

He probably means stats, which I whole-heartedly agree with. The game plays a lot better with pve gear than pvp gear.

More like all the issues are multiplied with pve stats.

ensoriki.5789:

dreztina.4820:

He probably means stats, which I whole-heartedly agree with. The game plays a lot better with pve gear than pvp gear.

More like all the issues are multiplied with pve stats.

Actually no, not really. I don’t know how you spvp only people can go from saying ‘spvp is so unbalanced right now; worst meta ever’ to ‘pve stats are bad because they aren’t balanced’. Balance in wvw is no worse than in spvp. Which is to say it’s kitten in both, but ya.

I would like a pvp deathmatch option for gear I earned through pve/wvw. I don’t care about looks. Adding arenas with our actual gear makes it seem more fun IMO. I’m tired of roaming and getting zerged.

A. Fun is subjective but I have two definitions of fun. Skyhammer is fun when I just want to durdle around and goof off, Skyhammer is extremely unfun when I have to play it in solo queue because it over emphasizes the ability to knock people off. A lot of competitive players that want this to be an eSport find interesting maps that promote some sort of strategy fun. Playing against competent teams is also fun. The big difference between solo and team for me is in most team games the score is fairly close, come solo queue matches a vast majority of the games are a 150-200+ score difference. That’s not fun. Having people rage quit isn’t fun, losing that bad isn’t fun, to some extent winning that bad isn’t fun.
TLDR: Some maps are inherently not fun/poorly designed leads to no fun. Also bad matchmaking.

2) Rewards are pitiful, yes you want this to be two separate games but in reality they aren’t. I’m actually starting to play PvP more and more but while I’m playing PvP I’m missing out on any gold that could be made. People like being rewarded, skins only go so far. Especially skins that can take a while to obtain in PvP can be obtained with ease in PvE. I’d really like to see some sort of monetary reward, PvP in my opinion takes a whole lot more skill than any part of PvE or WvW and I get nothing to show for the most part. You’re also segregating a community. I’m sure more PvE players as they get bored would love to explore PvP, but once they see the return a lot leave. Why dedicate that much time get good at something for nothing in return. You’re also not helping PvP players that want to visit PvE. As it stands if you did PvP all year you don’t have a level 80 (experience in PvP may be too much to ask) you also have a measly amount of gold to get started from the few dyes you got worth anything, you could have put in twice the time as a PvE player with a legendary and show up to PvE with >100g. PSST make Zaishen chest again.
TLDR: I feel the lack of rewards is going to make it hard to convince PvE players to come to PvP and doesn’t really encourage PvP players to ever try PvE.

III- GAME MODES!!! Conquest gets really boring after awhile. Look at Legacy of Foefire, all you have to do is take out the points and make it more of an attack and defend match. You have trebs in Khylo, do something similar to the luxon or kurzick game where you have 3 trebs to take out an enemies keep or something. Deathmatch because most new players think that’s what it’s about anyways. Look at any other MMO even GW1, looks at shooters, fighting games there are endless possibilities just try something new. Start with something safe like deathmatch as a new format then branch out from there.
TLDR: Game mode variety would be great.

D. Standardized models. A lot of people complain about asura because they make them tiny as possible and they’re next to impossible to locate. Seriously in the condition cleave minion meta finding an asura among 4 ranger spirits, a pet, and possibly 1-7 necro minions is the most aggravating thing on Earth. Maybe don’t ban Asura just have each race have a standard size, max height asura, mid height human and sylvari, min height norn and charr.
TLDR: Character normalization wouldn’t hurt.

5) Balance, classes are ridiculously unbalanced. It’s clear, balancing classes is already hard. Balancing them between PvP and PvE is impossible. I think separating PvP and PvE skills isn’t a bad idea, just change up numbers where necessary or change skills to fit into PvP a bit better. Some classes trait lines are horrendous to go along with that. Rangers have precision/crit damage in the same line yet the Grandmaster traits are abysmal compared to the thief’s precision/crit damage trait line.
TLDR: Balance because every team needing 3 classes isn’t fun to play with, against or watch.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, bigger patches don’t always equal better.

You guys always say this, but players asking how big my patch is happens so quickly everytime a new player joins the game. As a..community manager, im sure you can explain this discrepency.

Bah Allie saw this topic going south. When you know people are angry and right instead of answering the community you just hide in your balance world hoping that if you tell us enough times ‘’ it’s ok your just imagining stuff it will go away’’. This denial from anet makes me sad and disappointed.

HPLT.7132:

Inverted.7439:

Wow, i’m shocked. I disagree with so much of what helseth has said in this weeks rant… And i’m the one that posted his first rank on the forums. He’s just stabbing Anet repeatedly and uselessly. It doesn’t take a genius mind to figure out why Anet isn’t completely changing the meta right before PAX. You could say something like “just tweak down necro’s/spirit rangers” But if they did something like that, that could be the tipping point to make other classes viable. COMPLETELY changing the meta and the PAX teams would have what? 2 weeks to practice with a meta that is brand new? No that would just simply be stupid.

Players adapt to the meta and not the other way around. Seriously how hard is it to play spirit rangers and necros effectively? Probably the 2 most difficult classes to master…
This current meta is not showing if they are truly the best players. Take Sync for example apart from that Caed guy they just play ridiculous OP builds…they can be the worst players in the world and still ele’s and mesmers would be melted while 2 rezz spirits are up. If that is whats Anet wants to show…Congratulations they succeeded.

Yeah it’s true players adapt to the meta but you’re not going to be able to adapt to a brand new meta within a Month of PAX which is a huge event for gw2. You judge Sync for being meta but you say players must adapt? you’re contradicting yourself. They’re playing what has to be played for them to win, 10,000$>what you think about them. Yes it’s true that necro’s and spirit rangers aren’t very hard to play and dominate other classes but that’s just how the game is right now. If you think your Whining is going to get you anywhere, you sir are gravely mistaken.

I can say that if we were still going to pax I’d be all for balancing before the tournament. Other games use older patches for tournaments so they can continue balancing even during the tournaments. This game doesn’t have that and continued balancing is far more important than 10 players playing for 10k. This tournament isn’t even really the beginning as it isn’t community driven, it’s just a booster arena net has provided. The community will decide whether this game grows or not and right now the game is not good enough. When it is good enough the community will get behind it and we will have ourselves a supported competitive game.

So while not balancing in the tournament could have helped the teams have a fair game for 10k, I think the teams would realize that the game needs growth and the 7.5k or 2.5k their team will earn is not sustainable without a good enough game.

Inverted.7439:

HPLT.7132:

Inverted.7439:

Wow, i’m shocked. I disagree with so much of what helseth has said in this weeks rant… And i’m the one that posted his first rank on the forums. He’s just stabbing Anet repeatedly and uselessly. It doesn’t take a genius mind to figure out why Anet isn’t completely changing the meta right before PAX. You could say something like “just tweak down necro’s/spirit rangers” But if they did something like that, that could be the tipping point to make other classes viable. COMPLETELY changing the meta and the PAX teams would have what? 2 weeks to practice with a meta that is brand new? No that would just simply be stupid.

Players adapt to the meta and not the other way around. Seriously how hard is it to play spirit rangers and necros effectively? Probably the 2 most difficult classes to master…
This current meta is not showing if they are truly the best players. Take Sync for example apart from that Caed guy they just play ridiculous OP builds…they can be the worst players in the world and still ele’s and mesmers would be melted while 2 rezz spirits are up. If that is whats Anet wants to show…Congratulations they succeeded.

Yeah it’s true players adapt to the meta but you’re not going to be able to adapt to a brand new meta within a Month of PAX which is a huge event for gw2. You judge Sync for being meta but you say players must adapt? you’re contradicting yourself. They’re playing what has to be played for them to win, 10,000$>what you think about them. Yes it’s true that necro’s and spirit rangers aren’t very hard to play and dominate other classes but that’s just how the game is right now. If you think your Whining is going to get you anywhere, you sir are gravely mistaken.

What you’re saying basically is ‘’ top players cant adapt for 1 mount ‘’ amm come on if they are top players they can adapt for one week. We are talking for people who play the same old thing from the beginning of the game .It takes 2-3 days to get a hang of a build and class and 2-3 more to master it. This pax tournament is to show who is bather well there you go we can see who can adapt faster than the other. Giving one month for 10 people to train for 3 games is just wrong.
I play Mesmer as main. I lear how to play spirit ranger for 1 day necro for 2 days burst ele for 3-4 days ( before this insane condi meta ). So I realy don’t see what the fuss all about. Everybody is talking and complying for this pax for weeks and the sad thing is nobody from anet gives a rats a*s

I’d rather they focused on making what we have now really good, for everyone. Then start adding more modes of play. I don’t see a point in adding new modes of play when the core pvp game is slightly underwhelming at the moment.

You’ll just have more places to be annoyed in, but ‘still’ be annoyed…

Don’t think the game is too far way from being ‘fun’ at the core tbh. You know, the subtle things that happen in a fight. The thought processes and the visible decisions people make etc. Just a few things pushed here and there to make that stuff more obvious and chess-like, then they can work on solid balance and adding textural quality to PvP.

I can’t comment on the specifics of the current Meta, but generally, games become ‘not fun’ once they are figured out.

Once it’s “Do <Blah> or be inferior, the end”, well, screw it I’ll go do something else.

Fordel.3208:

I can’t comment on the specifics of the current Meta, but generally, games become ‘not fun’ once they are figured out.

Once it’s “Do <Blah> or be inferior, the end”, well, screw it I’ll go do something else.

The problem is we can’t do something else in PvP. Bored of conquest? Go PvE.

Phantaram.1265:

I can say that if we were still going to pax I’d be all for balancing before the tournament. Other games use older patches for tournaments so they can continue balancing even during the tournaments. This game doesn’t have that and continued balancing is far more important than 10 players playing for 10k. This tournament isn’t even really the beginning as it isn’t community driven, it’s just a booster arena net has provided. The community will decide whether this game grows or not and right now the game is not good enough. When it is good enough the community will get behind it and we will have ourselves a supported competitive game.

So while not balancing in the tournament could have helped the teams have a fair game for 10k, I think the teams would realize that the game needs growth and the 7.5k or 2.5k their team will earn is not sustainable without a good enough game.

+1 Exactly!

It’s absurd we have to wait for balance because of a tournament that should be an advocate for this game.

Stof.9584:

Phantaram.1265:

I can say that if we were still going to pax I’d be all for balancing before the tournament. Other games use older patches for tournaments so they can continue balancing even during the tournaments. This game doesn’t have that and continued balancing is far more important than 10 players playing for 10k. This tournament isn’t even really the beginning as it isn’t community driven, it’s just a booster arena net has provided. The community will decide whether this game grows or not and right now the game is not good enough. When it is good enough the community will get behind it and we will have ourselves a supported competitive game.

So while not balancing in the tournament could have helped the teams have a fair game for 10k, I think the teams would realize that the game needs growth and the 7.5k or 2.5k their team will earn is not sustainable without a good enough game.

+1 Exactly!

It’s absurd we have to wait for balance because of a tournament that should be an advocate for this game.

But is that the reason?

Yes, they are not going to make sweeping changes to balance before PAX. That is not completely because of PAX.

So is PAX 99% of the reason or 2%?
Some transparency sure would be nice…

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

You’re presenting a false dichotomy. You can find all 3 things fun or only 1 of them fun without the others impacting each other.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

1 may find conquest fun, 1 may love deathmatch and 1 has a passion for king of the hill.

That guy who loves deathmatch and the other one who would like king of the hill, leaves GW2. The 1st one, who loves conquest, will get bored after a while, because doing the same thing forever isn’t fun, and he will leave too.

GW2 PvP’s future in a nutshell.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

You act like fun – in this setting – is some incalculable entity that is just some whimsical ideology. You see, that’s not the case at all.

You created a game – which by its very nature is designed for fun – and people buy it or participate in it, based on fun. So, because of that, you can measure it’s level of fun by its participants.

So, I ask you, how is participation in PvP? Since you guys don’t tell anything – numbers, ideas, balance, etc, – one can only speculate based on his/her own experience. So, based on my experience, participation in PvP is abysmal. By that measurement, we find that the level of fun is abysmal.

If Fun = Participation and Participation = crap….what does fun equal?

To draw another comparison and to make my statement clear. I do not think it should be fun for everyone, because that would be an impossibility. For instance, I hate LoL, only because it’s click-to-move. Click-to-move to me is dreadful. Does that make the game unfun? No. It makes it unfun for me. But clearly it’s fun because of people flocking to it in droves. How did LoL succeed? They made a game that was very fun to play (for a large amount of people) and then out of those numbers was born an esport and a thriving community.

You guys invented the game for what is fun for a few developers (and sometimes only for PvE or ONLY esport) and in such, have not created fun at all.

You Sr. Have nailed it!

+1

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

Sometimes on skyhammer I just wait at point C or A looking around the corner with banish ready. And I like players who are better than me since it allows me to become better at my class.

data.4093:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

Sometimes on skyhammer I just wait at point C or A looking around the corner with banish ready. And I like players who are better than me since it allows me to become better at my class.

No you are getting better at pressing 4 on a capture point. 1v1 someone better than you while not on Skyhammer. Btw yeah banishing is fun, but nothing to do with how good a player is.

Gandarel.5091:

No you are getting better at pressing 4 on a capture point. 1v1 someone better than you while not on Skyhammer. Btw yeah banishing is fun, but nothing to do with how good a player is.

If you cannot stand in places to not be banished then you are not a good player. Hence, it has something to do with how good a player is. Cheers.

My dad beats me when my mom isn’t looking :/

Oraith.1732:

My dad beats me when my mom isn’t looking :/

I found this comment strange but the next second I realized this might not be trolling. It is exactly what is happening!

The devs talk down on us like we do not understand their sophisticated design.
We provide ideas almost everyday & ask for balance changes BUT they just slap in our faces saying “feedbacks are not constructive enough to be implemented” blah blah blah because on the outside, Guild Wars 2 is gaining population, it is getting a seat in Electronic Sports League and newcomers to this game do not see the deadly flaws in PvP——yet.

They will see soon enough if you continue to be this stubborn. “Changes are coming” is VERY CHEAP A SENTENCE. That one reads more like “don’t worry we’re not fired yet”.

Many great companies like BioWare fell before you guys because they are prideful and think they do not make mistakes. The fun thing is that even HUGE TYCOON studios like Blizzard make mistakes. Please, help us. Help yourselves.

I agree with signorina Murdock. Feedback should not only be bragging and pointing out what’s wrong, but should also provide solutions. I will try to give constructive feedback here.

CLASS BALANCE IN PVP

Why the current meta isn’t fun:
This meta is the worst because many players are forced into different classes. It has always been that players have to play something else. But when top teams are forced to change 3+ classes in their comp it’s alarming. And not fun!
Mesmer and Elementalist are of no use in this meta (if you don’t agree you did not play the meta!). Mesmer and Ele just get trained! They have the use of “being rezzed” in this current meta. Why do you think does Phantaram play Necro and Xeph Thief? Because if one of them plays his real class they get focused (and eventually die) resulting in a loss for their team (and because the other classes are just better in every way..)
____________________________________
1. S/D-Thief;
Not only is he ridiculously OP, but he also makes Mesmer and Elementalist obsolete. The Problem is, that the perma evade makes the thief a “hard-target” (unlike the backstab thief). In fact every current metaposition is a hardtarget (maybe the necro a semi-kittene). The Problem is, that these classes which are hardtargets do their job better then Mesmer and Elementalist could (S/D thief has more mobility, survivability, sustain, DoT, ele has more singletarget burst tough). Mesmer and Elementalist aren’t hard targets, when they want to provide the same amount of dmg an S/D thief delivers. An Elementalist in the current meta dies instantly, forcing his team to rezz all the time (rezzing with soft targets also a problem). Same goes with the Mesmer. Backstab was strong, but not OP. If he missed his Backstab a good Ele would always own him. He had high dmg, but not that much sustain, that’s why other dmg dealers were an option (slightly less dmg, but more sustain).
So I see 2 Solutions here;
I – The problem of the S/D Thieves are the many evades. Flanking Strike is OK, maybe reduce the time of evade on it. The minor trait in “acrobatics” where your endurance recharges faster gives so much extra evade. It should be turned down or removed, so that an S/D thief can be killed. Another or additional Option would also be, that “Shadow Return” can’t be used while CCed (not only NOT being a stunbreak). So thieves would have to evade the CC rather than having a “break free from prison”-card.
II – The “not so good”-variant. I would prefer you use both (tuning down S/D and this one). The other option would be to give Mesmer and Elementalist more sustain, so that it doesn’t only result in rezzing and they are similar in sustain to a S/D thief.
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2. Elementalist
As said above. He needs more sustain if you want to leave necro like it is at the moment (which would be OK I think.). The mistake you made here is that you nerved Ele hard (and good at that time) after the Elementalist-Meta, then buffed the other classes and still left Elementalist in his weak position. So a few ideas:
I Give elementalist a little more mobility again (so that he can compete with an S/D thief) —> Reduce the cooldown of RTL again
II Change the "dodgeroll --> healing" trait again, so that you can dodge a few times and get healed (more heal is needed in this meta).
III Provide defensive traits in the “Fire-line” and change the Focus skills, so that it can be used. Maybe a little condition hate? (on focus rather condition hate, than Projectile hate)
____________________________________
3. Same with Mesmers. Mesmers were ridiculously strong and got tuned down a lot, while the other classes got buffed. You have to re initiate the pre-nerf state of Mesmer, so that it can be an option rather than an S/D thief. (more sustain)
With thief, elementalist and Mesmer I would prefer it, that S/D thief gets toned down and Elementalist and Mesmer get a slight buff.

4. Warrior
The buff of warrior was good! It made warrior a viable class first time since the start of the game (my opinion). But 2 things are too strong.
- Mace stunlock is too long —> reduce from 3 seconds to 2.
- The 2 new traits build adrenaline too fast (so that you can alternate between spamming hammer-burst skill and longbow-burst skill). --> reduce adrenaline gain a little.
____________________________________
5. Engineer
Elixir-R – I understand the nerf. It was ridiculously strong and eliminated every other option, because of it’s strength. But now it’s needed more than ever! If you leave the stun-warriors etc. you need to give the “Stunbreak” back. Or give real good other options. (the other ones are not good enough..)
Many people stopped playing Engineer, because you can’t really win 1v1 anymore (Against necro, warrior and ranger you have a really hard time..).

6. Spiritranger
The big problem of the Spiritranger is, that he is an equally good bunker and 1v1 class than a beastmaster and also provides a massive bonus in dmg and support in midfights (which the beastmaster didn’t. So you had to choose —> strong 1v1 class or good teamfighter).
- Tune down spirit boni. once every 15 seconds. The 70% chance is a joke, because it always proccs. Just let it proc.
- Spiritcooldown after spirits are dead
- Natures renewal should only be able to rezz once.
____________________________________
7. Necromancer
The problem in my opinion in this meta is not the necromancer per se. It’s him with the other classes combined. He should die a little faster in my opinion so that he has to think if he wants more sustain or more dmg.

GENERAL PROBLEMS OF PVP
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1. The reward and tourney System – Solutions for more PvP modes

In Guild Wars 1 your rank would get higher faster when you played better. In Guild Wars 2 you only have a time factor. More invested time = higher rank.
The solution would be, that you make progressive tourneys (like ha in GW1).
So make a rotation of Maps. Every team starts at the bottom and has to fight it’s way up. Team who wins gets reward chest. The more consecutive wins your team has, the higher the rewards get. The Team in the top map continues playing in it.
—> This tourney should not be rated and not have matchmaking. The good teams will meet on top.

2. Hot join – or getting more players to play pvp. -Solutions for more PvP modes

This may be my opinion, but I think hot join should be REMOVED from the game. The maps are created for 10 people not 16. 16 results in zerg and you don’t learn how to PvP. Hot join 5v5 doesn’t function, because you always have 4v5 and it’s frustrating.
Also a huge playerbase lies there and is also trapped in hot join, because it’s not possible to win in team ladder with a newbie hot join team (I suppose..)
—> Make “single tournament” the new hot join! Maybe also provide a consecutive win bonus like in point 1. for single tournament

3. Create GvG – Solutions for more PvP modes

A GvG mode wouldn’t be that hard to create;
I – Name the PvP maps “Guild halls”. They can be chosen when you create a guild for a little money.
II – Create a Guild based rating not a player based. Also create a Team based matchmaking. —> You can only play GvG when you represent your guild.

The thing about GvG is the feeling of achieving something as a Guild! I think with GvG available more PvE guilds would start to play pvp! With “playerladder” and not team based PvP you don’t get the feeling of a “team”.

NEW MAPS AND MODES
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1. The Problem of Support, or playing alone isnt fun.

Since Guild Wars 2 lacks trinity (and I want to applaud you that you tried this experiment!) a big problem occurs:
“Everybody just plays for himself”. There is no real supporter. No real “helping your teammate”. In fights your teammates eventually die and all you can do is rezz them. That’s the support you have.
In Guild Wars 1 one of the most fun parts was the synergy between teammates. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have this. It’s more of a “5 Players who play alone play besides each other and eventually rezz another”.
This also is a huge limit in game modes! And also the reason why I’m so bored of PvE.

A somewhat radical solution (which probably is unrealistic):

You should look at your experiment (no trinity) and accept that it’s a failure, because it limits the possibility of other game modes. You should abadon the concept and introduce a “protective”-cass (not a healer!). More like the “active prot” in guild wars 1. Since People have selfheal a real Healer is not that important. If you would introduce a “protter” which could safe people from heavy focus forcing the Opponents to switch targets you could make so many more Game modes (in PvP and in Pve!).

And read this thread and many others: People are bored of PvP because it doesn’t have enough game modes! So you need to create more. But you can’t really because you don’t have a supporter.

2. Deathmatch

Deathmatch doesn’t work because of the lack of support. A deathmatch with a protter-class would work tough. You could even make 8v8 again. I’m pretty sure it would be so much fun.

(I could imagine a Deathmatch with the current state of game with respawn and on-kill point system. But I doubt it would be fun).

3. Capture the flag , or relic run

Not possible also because the game lacks a supporter/healer/protter. With a supporting class this game mode would be viable! (don’t talk about spiritwatch please^^)
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4. GvG like in GW1

Not possible, because you would just gank the guild lord due of lack of healer.
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5. Other game modes?

In fact, without supporter no other game mode than capture points is possible. So let’s look at the maps. The solutions seem to be “secondary objectives”, which work like “additional” points.
I think what you do wrong is focusing too much on the secondary objectives.
The good maps are: temple, foefire, niflhel and khylo
failed: skyhammer, spiritwatch, capricorn
Why are the good maps good? In my opinion it’s not because the secondary objectives are better.
—> It is the position and in case of foefire the size which makes these maps interesting and forces other strategies.
The shift in Z axis of Khylo is just so cool and gives many possibilities.
Temple is cool because the distance of the points is so short.
Legacy is cool because the big point forces you to play differently.

—> I can’t really imagine many other maps with “capturepoints” mode. But when you think about other maps try to change; 1. Point size, 2. Point locations and distances, 3. Map Z-axis

@django
i like the idea of a protter (not healer) would be fun to play
/agree with rest of points as well

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

To Allie,

“Fun” is when you see heart of the mists filled with more and more people. Thats when you know you’re doing a good job. Currently the mists are more full then lets say 1 or 2 months ago, so there are positive things happening.

I’ve been playing since game release and I’m still having fun. 1 game mode is not the issue for me. I do miss the incentive for becoming really good or finding a team to play with, so I’m stuck doing soloQ.

The issue for me personally is:
There is no good way for glory to spend and there is no way to show that you’re better then someone else. I don’t want my rating to be seen on internet, I want to see it in-game next to my name. Also, I want other people to see it. This kind of incentive for me, makes a game really fun

Hector.6950:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

To Allie,

“Fun” is when you see heart of the mists filled with more and more people. Thats when you know you’re doing a good job. Currently the mists are more full then lets say 1 or 2 months ago, so there are positive things happening.

I’ve been playing since game release and I’m still having fun. 1 game mode is not the issue for me. I do miss the incentive for becoming really good or finding a team to play with, so I’m stuck doing soloQ.

The issue for me personally is:
There is no good way for glory to spend and there is no way to show that you’re better then someone else. I don’t want my rating to be seen on internet, I want to see it in-game next to my name. Also, I want other people to see it. This kind of incentive for me, makes a game really fun

Agreed on all points. I truly like the moment when I started entering Rank 20 & 30 and I finally could look VERY different from the other players.

Those moment felt very good. Like the whole world just became new BUT

The way we get PvP skins is, like you stated, problematic. We only could show how long we have played the game, not how good we are at it. The only incentive here is that I know the longer I play, the smexier I will look~~~

~~that’s not very nice for a game that is PvP-oriented and supposedly based on player skills.

Akkuma.2501:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

You’re presenting a false dichotomy. You can find all 3 things fun or only 1 of them fun without the others impacting each other.

What this person said. Not to mention “people are telling us different things so we aren’t allowed to do anything!” is completely ridiculous.

Django.5923:

…

Why did you not mention duels? Because duels do work. So do 2v2 or even 3v3 death match. Stealth would perhaps need to be nerffed to prevent certain d/p instagib cheese as seen in WvW, but otherwise I don’t see why it couldn’t work. It would just be differend from the current spam fest.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Arganthium.5638:

In allocating resources to Esports, I think he means the fairly large focus on the PAX tournament (although he might have slightly exaggerated it).

As for fun, I think he just means balance, and, if you saw his post from last week about spam, and the post that was on the same line of thought that I put up recently about skills being used more tactically and strategically than they currently are.

Sure, except the PAX event is being mostly managed by our events, marketing and community teams. No resources are being taken away from development for PAX.

As for fun, we understand that balance isn’t in it’s ideal place. This is why we have a balance team that focuses completely on balance. Time is needed to balance, it can’t be done at the snap of a finger.

Well this is a lie, the pvp can be fixed with a snap of a finger, the problem are the devs that don’t listen to a part of the balance team (the players).

Who has the power to decide on the changes, doesn’t have the knowledge to do so. You ignore the feedback you get from valid players and insist to do the changes you think are ’’right’’.

I will make an example: Once upon a time when mesmers were almost oneshotting with shatters, you guys decided to change a trait that was giving 1 stack of might x shatter, into 3 stack of might x shatter. It was a total disaster, mesmers were running around with 20+ stacks of might all the time, blowing tanks like if they were made of paper.

That change was soooooo bad, everyone told you (the devs) to not do it, you didn’t care and you did it anyway. As a result of that, we played with a broken meta till you reverted the change in the patch after.

There are dozen of players that could fix the pvp with a snap of fingers, without touching the pve balance or wvwvw, but it’s impossible for them to do so, because you are terrible at listening.

4/5 small changes and you could fix 90% of the problems, giving the game a decent lvl of balance. After that you could take a little more time to work on the 10%, polishing the game with some more complex changes.

The devs are impossible to reason with, they don’t listen to anybody. Look at the free/paid/monthly tournament stuff, it was obviously a bad idea for this game, and yet they ignored the feedback, and wasted kittenloads of money and time on it. Think about what could’ve they done with the money and time they spent on that project.

I have moaned about this game for ages just because I feel disappointed to have invested time in a game which is not ever going to be competitive.

I have come to the realisation that we shouldn’t moan about these things because, when it is all decided, this game is an MMO. Not an FPS, not a MOBA, and not an RTS. At the end of the day, this must be remembered.

Sure they should never of even mentioned esports in the build up to the game. I am sure they know that now. But if you think this game is viable from a competitve stand point moving forward then you are deluded.

MMO’s are based around role playing. They are RPG games. And in every case PvP is just tacked on for some light entertainment. The combat problems that helseth talks about are ALL valid. But they will never change. The concept of high aoe and spam are interlinked with the PvE design of the game. They cannot change all the things that need to be changed. It just ins’t possible.

Like all MMO’s this as an rpg/pve game first. You have to accept that. If you want to play a competitive game then obviously dont play an MMO. There will always be huge problems which detract from the enjoyment of the game the higher in skill level you go.

I have no friggin’ idea how you’d make this game ‘stronger’ without changing fundamental basics which are unrealistic…

It’s a difficult situation. A lot of people pine for the old days of GW1 (myself included) but those days are gone and GW2 does have it’s charms. It’s a really good game for what it’s worth. I guess one of the main things I miss about the ‘old’ game was the need for synergy to achieve kills.

People have argued that this exists on some level already and others have argued that isn’t the case, or that the synergistic play is incredibly shallow. I can see both sides… Sure you can work with someone else to push a kill through, but at the same time this is somewhat diminished when someone can get a kill solo.

This is just one issue granted but in a nutshell: Neither method matters as long as the same thing is achieved.

What I think would be a great start to fixing the issues people have is to give more options for custom arenas. Allow players/owners to do things like reduce/increase damage by certain percentages. Allow them to adjust how many points killing awards their team. Even how many points holding a point gives.

This way players can ‘make’ their own deathmatches (by making capping points matter a lot less than killing players). They can see if reducing overall damage by 50% really forces people to coordinate kills and reap the benefits of more synergistic combat.

Instead of players making posts about what ifs’ and if only’s, they could just grab some like-minded friends and go test those theories to a certain degree and Arena Net could see the results. I think that would be pretty awesome…

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

I’d like to present to you a Necromancer named Panzer. Panzer blasts Elementalist Footman in the face. Elementalist Footman’s brains are incinerated.

Elementalist Footman did not have fun.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

if you try to catch all types of players, you will end up with none

Allie Murdock.8152:

Volrath.1473:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Firstly, we have no qualm or rivalry with Helseth.

That aside, I have some questions, and would like to address some other points made.

1. What exactly do you mean by allocating resources to eSports?
2. What exactly is your definition of fun? Fun is subjective, no?

While we definitely appreciate it when players are vocal and provide feedback, excessive hyperbole does not help us to understand the fundamental issue.

Some more points:
1. The current meta is not controlled by the PvP team. Yes, we monitor it closely as balance greatly affects PvP. However, no resources are being taken away from PvP development in order to do balance. So I’d like to just squash that misconception now.

2. Skill effect clutter – another thing not controlled by the PvP team. Another thing that we monitor and provide feedback to the teams that do control it.

3. Sending out in-game mail is not as easy as it sounds. Keep in mind that every message that is sent has to be edited and localized.

• This is, however, something we recognize as an area to be improved. We are investigating ways to provide in-game messaging for events.

4. Lastly, I want to thank you for promoting the guildwars2pvptv channel. I always see a few people on the team with the stream always going on their 2nd/3rd monitors. Once PAX has past, we’ll be looking to better promote streamers from all areas of the game. So keep it up!!

ok so basically everything that is wrong with the game is not your fault. There is nothing at all under “control” you simply “monitor” thats cute!

I guess it is ours then! this meta is the worse EVER and i believe we all agree on that but it is ofc the players fault for playing the extremely OP professions that YOU made.

This is the excessive hyperbole that I mentioned in my post. You have every right to complain, but we can’t really understand your problem unless you actually provide some constructive feedback.

Allie, apparently you don’t read these forums very often, otherwise you would already know what is killing sPvP. It’s not the balance, it’s the kittenty game modes. This has been pointed out by numerous community members, yet you continue to ignore the posts or even in some cases delete the topic (i.e. you got kitten). This is your constructive feedback. Your current game mode is crap.

milo.6942:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, now which is it? I have 3 different people saying that fun means 3 different things. This is what I meant when I said fun is subjective.

To some people, it’s fun to knock people off the edge of skyhammer. To others, it’s fun to be matched up against equally skilled players. To even more, it’s fun to feel like you’re great at the class you play.

if you try to catch all types of players, you will end up with none

Exactly. That’s totall what’s happening. This PvP wants to be too competitive thus giving no content for casuals to play, and the competitive scene is too small to have impact because the game isn’t appailing and ‘fun’.

Gandarel.5091:

Exactly. That’s totall what’s happening. This PvP wants to be too competitive thus giving no content for casuals to play, and the competitive scene is too small to have impact because the game isn’t appailing and ‘fun’.

Starcraft. Dota and LoL. Counter-Strike. Those games are truly ‘too competitive’, with a priority of balancing for the 1% and the competitive scene, yet still are played by massive amounts of casual players that still deem it fun.

Not to mention that GW2 also has more than 1 mode of play, WvW and the overshadowing PvE behemoth that’s already a casual’s paradise.

Yes, people have different definitions of fun. However, if the audience that desires balanced and competitive gameplay over quirky gimmicks or easier gameplay (alternatively read as: low skill ceiling) become ignored even in the game mode meant for them, then they have nowhere to go in GW2. If anything, it’s the exact opposite of that quoted statement; there will be no content for the competitive scene but content for the more casual players.

Bushido.2184:

Starcraft. Dota and LoL. Counter-Strike. Those games are truly ‘too competitive’, with a priority of balancing for the 1% and the competitive scene, yet still are played by massive amounts of casual players that still deem it fun.

This misses the point though, those games balance the game for competitive mostly, but they don’t spend most of their attention for that. There’s still plenty of game modes for more casual etc…

Bushido.2184:

Not to mention that GW2 also has more than 1 mode of play, WvW and the overshadowing PvE behemoth that’s already a casual’s paradise.

GW2 sPvP is a completely separate game than PvE and WvW for all that matters. The goal of paying attention to more casual PvP players is to build a healthy population of potential “pros” and spectators and game interest in general. But since PvE and WvW are SO separate, so much different, they don’t work for that.

Worse, a PvE player will try PvP and will notice he’s “wasting his time” since sPvP doesn’t given anything for him. At most, he can get bags for cheap if he farms a high rank and dyes.

Bushido.2184:

Gandarel.5091:

Exactly. That’s totall what’s happening. This PvP wants to be too competitive thus giving no content for casuals to play, and the competitive scene is too small to have impact because the game isn’t appailing and ‘fun’.

Starcraft. Dota and LoL. Counter-Strike. Those games are truly ‘too competitive’, with a priority of balancing for the 1% and the competitive scene, yet still are played by massive amounts of casual players that still deem it fun.

I miss the point where these games are MMOs. It’s a totally different gametype with totally different desires.

Even FPS games got different gamemodes, actually many.

Strategy games are about personal, ndependent strategy, but here we are locked to 3 cap points all the time, we can’t play as we want to.

LoL has hundreds of ‘builds’ to play with (aka champions), there that gives the fun and diversity factor.

Anet should focus much more on PvP.

Bushido.2184:

Gandarel.5091:

Exactly. That’s totall what’s happening. This PvP wants to be too competitive thus giving no content for casuals to play, and the competitive scene is too small to have impact because the game isn’t appailing and ‘fun’.

Starcraft. Dota and LoL. Counter-Strike. Those games are truly ‘too competitive’, with a priority of balancing for the 1% and the competitive scene, yet still are played by massive amounts of casual players that still deem it fun.

Not to mention that GW2 also has more than 1 mode of play, WvW and the overshadowing PvE behemoth that’s already a casual’s paradise.

Yes, people have different definitions of fun. However, if the audience that desires balanced and competitive gameplay over quirky gimmicks or easier gameplay (alternatively read as: low skill ceiling) become ignored even in the game mode meant for them, then they have nowhere to go in GW2. If anything, it’s the exact opposite of that quoted statement; there will be no content for the competitive scene but content for the more casual players.

But they don’t just focus on the 1%, they also make sure it’s balanced and fun for the rest for the most part.

They also started out as just fun games focused 100% on fun and slowly grew into the esport monsters they are today. Anet is trying to skip too many steps.

3. Create GvG – Solutions for more PvP modes
A GvG mode wouldn’t be that hard to create;
I – Name the PvP maps “Guild halls”. They can be chosen when you create a guild for a little money.
II – Create a Guild based rating not a player based. Also create a Team based matchmaking. —> You can only play GvG when you represent your guild.
The thing about GvG is the feeling of achieving something as a Guild! I think with GvG available more PvE guilds would start to play pvp! With “playerladder” and not team based PvP you don’t get the feeling of a “team”.

LOL what a noob! The game is called guild wars! why would having guild vs guild ever be a good idea?
I can’t think where anyone got the idea from :P

Conan.8046:

3. Create GvG – Solutions for more PvP modes
A GvG mode wouldn’t be that hard to create;
I – Name the PvP maps “Guild halls”. They can be chosen when you create a guild for a little money.
II – Create a Guild based rating not a player based. Also create a Team based matchmaking. —> You can only play GvG when you represent your guild.
The thing about GvG is the feeling of achieving something as a Guild! I think with GvG available more PvE guilds would start to play pvp! With “playerladder” and not team based PvP you don’t get the feeling of a “team”.

LOL what a noob! The game is called guild wars! why would having guild vs guild ever be a good idea?
I can’t think where anyone got the idea from :P

Its Guild Wars because of the historical event that happened, not because you are fighting GvG. Inform yourself before acting kittened.