Guild Wars 2

@Forsaker
remove condidamage from mightstacks (so might give only power) would do same thing and would only be fair cause armor,protection dont work on condidamage too

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Blimm.5028:

Senso, I DO time my interrupts. My entire build revolves around shutting down my target not by permanent daze, but by precise interrupts. I do predict casts from time to time, like people tend to mash a skill when they are dazed to use it as soon as daze ends so I do an other daze 1/4 second after the first ends.
The only random interrupt in my build is F3.
I have sword offhand, Greatsword and the daze mantra.

yea but the problem is that such a lockdown build is hardly tourny viable..especially not in the current meta

That depends on how your team is built. Such a build can shutdown a Necro or an Engineer or any class that is a problem for that matter.

yea but those two classes arent really played atm..we see a lot of thieves warris guards and spirit rangers and a lockdown build vs warri is not really effective thats what i meant

….
Diamond Skin is a passive ability but does NOT promote passive play on either side.

Go compare that to healing signet. Diamond skin will easily get off in a group, and to keep it up an ele and his team will have to be pretty kitten non-passive about it.

Duels then? Already a joke, nobody cares. We got some years ahead of us if you guys want epic balanced skill based duels in this game.

That said not a fan of Diamond Skin due to the 100% immunity thing more than its ‘passiveness’ which is leagues below other true passive skills which dont alter gameplay.

Agree with DiogoSilva about diamond skin… Don’t think this trait is so op… And also it requires some skill to be up all the time…

dasmurmeltier.8521:

Well, i’ve read your post. Warrior changes are needed, indeed. Its weird how they can be invincible for a few secs. Though theres a reason why there is smth. like that i guess. Its just like with the condition immunity of the engineer. Try to play vs a good condition class without it. You’ll die. You cant dodge everything. I’d rather do smth. about the condition ‘burst’ of engineers and necros (though it hurts my heart to say that as an engineer player).
Its propably a good idea to start at the conditions itself. You did that too Sensotix. I agree with the criple, fear and propably with the bleeding stuff.
Torment? Hm. I hope you forgot to write there that ppl should only get half of the dmg of what they are getting right now while they are moving. Otherwise, the change of double dmg while not moving wouldnt make that much sense. If you want to punish ppl for not moving around, go all the way :P
Other stuff like burning, chilling and so on… Im not quite sure about that. But its rather possible that all the condition classes would be useless then. Ppl would have to use their conditions more carefully. Propably. Im not sure if ppl would make the effort if you can play on a easier way. Like playing offguard. Or s/d – thief ( that WILL be still kittening strong after the upcoming patch, no worries). Or the god kitten knockback-engi, that seems to be getting popular. I personally dont like the idea of just pushing ppl around and not fighting them, but it seems to be easier. I imagine that the tank/knockback – meta will be getting more popular then too (its already popular though, i know…).

I do fully agree with the OP!

I didn’t read through the full thread; but I’ve got the feeling that those changes would finally write the “go power or go home” PvE-meta in stone.

Conditions doing even less damage overall (also -1 damaging condition) (not talking about condi-bursts here, though powerbased builds can burst you down as well so I don’t really see a problem). With vulnerability giving 2% more damage each stack, it would be possible to have up to 50% more damage on a target.

ITT: CoF p1 in 3 minutes.

I really understand and agree with SOME of your points, but some others… seriously, no. ^^

Remove damage from poison? Remove the slow from… CHILL? Good lord… Also, I don’t think you really get the intention behind torment…

The only part of your post that really made sense to me was your evaluation of Warriors. Other than that, I’m going to have to say your post seems somewhat biased. As a mesmer, I can see you really hate conditions. You also seem to dislike thieves, even though they are stuggling right now in spvp are they not? You didnt even mention the nerf to sword and vigor, which is the nail in the coffin for sword/dagger.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be the “tank” in guild wars 2.

healing signet is working as intended for that purpose.

remember, guild wars 2 is a team game.

A tank that also hits like a cannon and has jet fueled engines! Right.

I see your point though, its a team game so its only fair that a warrior should be outnumbered in order to lose.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be the “tank” in guild wars 2.

… No… An Elementalist can probably tank a lot better than a Warrior. Haven’t really tried out all of the other professions @ 80 and with a semi-defensive build, but I would think that Warriors are not really the best “tanks” in the game, since it would seem that a lot of other professions have a higher skill-ceiling and thus have the possibility to play “better” and therefor get rewarded by avoiding/surviving more damage.

Phadde.7362:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be the “tank” in guild wars 2.

… No… An Elementalist can probably tank a lot better than a Warrior. Haven’t really tried out all of the other professions @ 80 and with a semi-defensive build, but I would think that Warriors are not really the best “tanks” in the game, since it would seem that a lot of other professions have a higher skill-ceiling and thus have the possibility to play “better” and therefor get rewarded by avoiding/surviving more damage.

pve or wvw player?

Sensotix.4106:

Stx.4857:

Remove damage from poison? Remove the slow from… CHILL? Good lord… Also, I don’t think you really get the intention behind torment…

The only part of your post that really made sense to me was your evaluation of Warriors. Other than that, I’m going to have to say your post seems somewhat biased. As a mesmer, I can see you really hate conditions. You also seem to dislike thieves, even though they are stuggling right now in spvp are they not? You didnt even mention the nerf to sword and vigor, which is the nail in the coffin for sword/dagger.

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

That is the entire point of torment, to punish you for moving!

Why would they make a condition that rewards you for doing what you normally do anyway?

We already made 2 ele specs that are going to be pretty much immortal after patch for our guild team…just waiting for 10 dec to unleash them….at least we all know who’s going to be next insane fotm spec…bunker meta is coming, remember those words…

Archaon.6245:

We already made 2 ele specs that are going to be pretty much immortal after patch for our guild team…just waiting for 10 dec to unleash them….at least we all know who’s going to be next insane fotm spec…bunker meta is coming, remember those words…

bunker meta will be countered by spike damage if the right teams play it
but i look forward to playing against your team then

Sensotix.4106:

Stx.4857:

Remove damage from poison? Remove the slow from… CHILL? Good lord… Also, I don’t think you really get the intention behind torment…

The only part of your post that really made sense to me was your evaluation of Warriors. Other than that, I’m going to have to say your post seems somewhat biased. As a mesmer, I can see you really hate conditions. You also seem to dislike thieves, even though they are stuggling right now in spvp are they not? You didnt even mention the nerf to sword and vigor, which is the nail in the coffin for sword/dagger.

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

It adds tactical play, like Retaliation, you see?

Malcastus.6240:

Sensotix.4106:

Stx.4857:

Remove damage from poison? Remove the slow from… CHILL? Good lord… Also, I don’t think you really get the intention behind torment…

The only part of your post that really made sense to me was your evaluation of Warriors. Other than that, I’m going to have to say your post seems somewhat biased. As a mesmer, I can see you really hate conditions. You also seem to dislike thieves, even though they are stuggling right now in spvp are they not? You didnt even mention the nerf to sword and vigor, which is the nail in the coffin for sword/dagger.

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

It adds tactical play, like Retaliation, you see?

what?
i have no clue what you are talking about atm

Sensotix.4106:

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

You are looking at it the wrong way. Torment is not punishing you for moving, it is rewarding you for standing still. The decision is on you to understand when taking advantage of it is actually going to be “advantageous”.

The condition is meant as a deterrent for people who decide to run away from you. Its purpose is for the aggressor to stick to their target more easily, which is exactly what it does. If Torment did less damage for targets who moved, this purpose would be voided.

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

You are looking at it the wrong way. Torment is not punishing you for moving, it is rewarding you for standing still. The decision is on you to understand when taking advantage of it is actually going to be “advantageous”.

The condition is meant as a deterrent for people who decide to run away from you. Its purpose is for the aggressor to stick to their target more easily, which is exactly what it does. If Torment did less damage for targets who moved, this purpose would be voided.

you just can’t stand still in this game it’s your instant death man…the way torment works is just wrong

There may be a few valid points like the warrior for example, but there are too many faults and inane ideas involved that it’s difficult to take seriously.

It’s fine that you suggest things, but some of it just makes no sense whatsoever and appears as random thoughts with no base in reality.

I see several people has pointed out the inconsistencies and flaws of your posts, so I need not bother. Just pointing out that your writing doesn’t come over as objective (biased even), and presents little decent content.

While I think that Diamond Skin is less OP than Automated Response.
Things like Automated Response and Diamond Skin should not exist. You can’t give a player this kind of passive ability. Either give an actual reduced condi duration instead of total immunity, or make it work like Berserker Stance.
Passive play should not be encouraged anyway.

I also think that Settler’s Amulet has a ridiculous stats spread, those 3 stats should never be together in tpvp. Condi bunker is the worst kind of bunker.

Malcastus.6240:

There may be a few valid points like the warrior for example, but there are too many faults and inane ideas involved that it’s difficult to take seriously.

It’s fine that you suggest things, but some of it just makes no sense whatsoever and appears as random thoughts with no base in reality.

I see several people has pointed out the inconsistencies and flaws of your posts, so I need not bother. Just pointing out that your writing doesn’t come over as objective (biased even), and presents little decent content.

what has retal to do with torment tho?

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

You are looking at it the wrong way. Torment is not punishing you for moving, it is rewarding you for standing still. The decision is on you to understand when taking advantage of it is actually going to be “advantageous”.

The condition is meant as a deterrent for people who decide to run away from you. Its purpose is for the aggressor to stick to their target more easily, which is exactly what it does. If Torment did less damage for targets who moved, this purpose would be voided.

you just can’t stand still in this game it’s your instant death man…the way torment works is just wrong

Why bother quoting me, if you do not even make the slightest effort of understanding what I just explained to you. Torment was designed to encourage you NOT to move. It’s like an immobilize that you can choose to ignore for a little extra damage.

For the love of god, take a step back and read, you might learn a thing or two. There are abilities in this game that force you to stand still and take whatever you are about to receive. Do we want to remove these too, because this game is “move or die”? It’s their exact purpose to not allow you to move.

Furthermore, you simply can not advocate an intensity stacking cripple and then proceed to argue that you need to be able to move in this game or you are dead. You demand that a movement-impairing effect should be made stronger, yet you want torment to be changed in its purpose, when the arguments for these individual changes are worlds apart and incongruent.

The ammount of clueless suggestions from op and the rest is incredible.It speaks volumes about the the present and future of pvp sadly.Unfortunately less and less players with wide knowledge about all classes are to be found on forums and" buff my class nerf the other i agree as long you nerf the classes i din’t faceroll" it’s dominating.
Lol at remove slow from chill but give free cripple that stacks intensity to everyone.Where is the logic in that?.And lol to make might give only power damage,condi builds should not benefit from might because?.Only reading threads like these knowing that i would need to write a thousand pages novel just to adress what is wrong with these suggestions, or just get infracted cuz that would be reasonably impossible, makes me feel like switching to pve or just unninstal altogether.

Please Josh continue listening to these sugestions i know they somehow make sense for you exactly like it does for them.Nerfing combustive shot because it replenishes too much andrenaline.

It doesn’t give any omg.Volumes.

A lot of talk has been made about the skill/reward, passive play, etc..Things that are kinda passive and very rewarding.
I dont think that this is the real problem..
There are many games with more passive things going on but still the skilled players shine out.
Im gonna use the example of LoL and moba games..
There are a lot more passive skills that are very effective.But, But, But..there is also farming and gearing progress…
In GW2 is like you take a full lvl – full gear hero..If you had a full gear Tristana and the other dude had a full gear Support, no matter what the support would do, no matter how skilled it would be the Tristana would autohit him to death..

Thats what they need to add in GW2.
Progress during match so the skilled players could outshine and carry the games..
Not in another map.In every map rework the system..

Just my opinion, i may be wrong, maybe its better the way it is now..

The point of the torment is that it gets you in a situation where you have to choose between staying mobile and suffering additional condition damage or standing still and suffering more damage if you are under focus fire. I’ve been in situations that warranted either approach.
What you propose, Sensotix, would change the way torment is used (theoretically, if conditions weren’t for the most part just spammed whenever possible) in which case torment would only work in accordance with hard CC’s.
IMHO, there’s a room for both the way torment currently works and for your proposed change, maybe as some sort of a new condition ?

While I appreciate the hard work, knowledge and ideas you bring to this discussion, I’m saddened by the fact that you only choose to respond to either completely positive replies or useless feedback, while completely ignoring any useful counter-arguments that have been provided several times in the thread and even going further to belittle negative feedback altogether. IMHO this attitude of “my way or highway” doesn’t do any good to your original argument, no matter how much constructive it is.

Sensotix.4106:

Archaon.6245:

We already made 2 ele specs that are going to be pretty much immortal after patch for our guild team…just waiting for 10 dec to unleash them….at least we all know who’s going to be next insane fotm spec…bunker meta is coming, remember those words…

bunker meta will be countered by spike damage if the right teams play it
but i look forward to playing against your team then

We already went for some runs with a lame 5 bunker/condition comp just to have a little test, 4 runs (Even getting vs mmr 100-150 guys) worst match 234-500 for us…bunker meta is already here, spike dmg can do nothing vs 2 bunkers at mid + 2 at close with one roaming…too much healing, blindness, weakness and condition removal to cc someone in order to put out a decent spike (30+ secs restacking stability on everyone…no joke)…and even if someone goes down other 2 ppl with runes of mercy can rez him up in no time (Under dps too)

We know it’s lame and i we all felt dumb for going like that…fact is that it already works, and after condition nerf and some buffs is going to be even more powerful..and even more lame..but as i said to someone (Obviously) complaining bout that…since they had those wars, necros and stuff just spamming around everything is legit…wanna play lame? Let’s play lame then..

Archaon.6245:

Sensotix.4106:

Archaon.6245:

We already made 2 ele specs that are going to be pretty much immortal after patch for our guild team…just waiting for 10 dec to unleash them….at least we all know who’s going to be next insane fotm spec…bunker meta is coming, remember those words…

bunker meta will be countered by spike damage if the right teams play it
but i look forward to playing against your team then

We already went for some runs with a lame 5 bunker/condition comp just to have a little test, 4 runs (Even getting vs mmr 100-150 guys) worst match 234-500 for us…bunker meta is already here, spike dmg can do nothing vs 2 bunkers at mid + 2 at close with one roaming…too much healing, blindness, weakness and condition removal to cc someone in order to put out a decent spike (30+ secs restacking stability on everyone…no joke)…and even if someone goes down other 2 ppl with runes of mercy can rez him up in no time (Under dps too)

We know it’s lame and i we all felt dumb for going like that…fact is that it already works, and after condition nerf and some buffs is going to be even more powerful..and even more lame..but as i said to someone (Obviously) complaining bout that…since they had those wars, necros and stuff just spamming around everything is legit…wanna play lame? Let’s play lame then..

Sounds extremely boring lol.

Stx.4857:

Archaon.6245:

Sensotix.4106:

Archaon.6245:

We already made 2 ele specs that are going to be pretty much immortal after patch for our guild team…just waiting for 10 dec to unleash them….at least we all know who’s going to be next insane fotm spec…bunker meta is coming, remember those words…

bunker meta will be countered by spike damage if the right teams play it
but i look forward to playing against your team then

We already went for some runs with a lame 5 bunker/condition comp just to have a little test, 4 runs (Even getting vs mmr 100-150 guys) worst match 234-500 for us…bunker meta is already here, spike dmg can do nothing vs 2 bunkers at mid + 2 at close with one roaming…too much healing, blindness, weakness and condition removal to cc someone in order to put out a decent spike (30+ secs restacking stability on everyone…no joke)…and even if someone goes down other 2 ppl with runes of mercy can rez him up in no time (Under dps too)

We know it’s lame and i we all felt dumb for going like that…fact is that it already works, and after condition nerf and some buffs is going to be even more powerful..and even more lame..but as i said to someone (Obviously) complaining bout that…since they had those wars, necros and stuff just spamming around everything is legit…wanna play lame? Let’s play lame then..

Sounds extremely boring lol.

It is…it’s boring as kitten and lame, almost never had to use healing skill, just wait for them going down due to continous condition restack and stomp gg…that’s why after positive testing for the lulz we went back to balanced (1 bunker 2 condition 2 dps) comp…not nearly as effective as that kitten…but at least we have fun with it…it’s ok for someone who wants to go “top” (lol) ladder not giving a kitten bout skilled play, but since i don’t really give a single kitten bout ladder (I don’t even know where i am..in both solo and team) i’d rather play high risk stuff…and have fun, maybe losing vs cheese comps too..we just proved that if you want to go top you can go top with pretty much no effort…just go for lame comps/specs and gg, i bet r10s team playing that kitten would be sort of effective anyway…no skills needed going with condition/bunker team, you literally have to do big and continuous mistakes to lose…and i mean really big ones..in a r50-60 team like ours it’s just…overkill, r40-50 ppl just stop playing sitting around waiting for match to end, it’s the anti-pvp…and hell it works…sadly..but i really suggest not to use dat kitten if you want to enjoy the game and improve your skills…at all

Freeelancer.2860:

I’m saddened by the fact that you only choose to respond to either completely positive replies or useless feedback, while completely ignoring any useful counter-arguments that have been provided several times in the thread and even going further to belittle negative feedback altogether.

Now where have we seen that kind of approach before….hmmm!

Sensotix.4106:

Thief: I am not sure how thief will develope so I will try to be a little bit careful here..imo the possibility to dodge a lot even after the patch will still allow very good players to be “beasts” and completely destroy other classes…the unbalanced thing here is that other classes don’t have that possibility which makes it unbalanced imo

I’m not sure of your wording here, yes, thief has access to a lot of dodge, more than other classes, but not that much more than the builds with high vigor uptime (some of which are addressed in the Dec 10th patch), so I assume you’re talking about the combination of evade frames and dodges that the S/D/SB thief has access to. If you put those two together, yeah, thief can be really annoying to play against.

Obviously, other classes have a lot of things for damage mitigation that thief doesn’t have… petting zoos, protection, much easier access to stability, regen and other boons… so removing too much of the thief’s ability to mitigate damage by not being there when it hits will all but destroy it.

I’m pretty confident the vigor and sword 2 nerfs are going to all but wipe the thief out, and you’ll be left with scrubs like me still running the spec in solo queue…

If you haven’t had a chance to hear them, I think Jumper’s thoughts on the Dec 10th nerf are good and would really punish poor play while still keeping S/D thief viable, more viable than the current Dec 10th patch will.

Finally, just a bit of advice, you’re quite helpful for the pvp community, and I’ve enjoyed your videos and insights into spvp, but be careful of the pve/wvw comments. PvX players (like me) have a right to comment on the kind of massive changes you’ve posted here because they would affect their gameplay. Even if you’ve made the suggestions in the spvp forum… Anet has shown a lot of hesitancy toward making a complete split of pvp/wvw/pve skills. I’m assuming this is because of data management and continuity issues, but regardless, the spvp needs more players and their best bet is to get them from the pve/wvw community, so try not to alienate that group by invalidating their opinions simply because they don’t spvp as much as you do. Just my 2c.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Freeelancer.2860:

I’m saddened by the fact that you only choose to respond to either completely positive replies or useless feedback, while completely ignoring any useful counter-arguments that have been provided several times in the thread and even going further to belittle negative feedback altogether.

Now where have we seen that kind of approach before….hmmm!

We’re going off topic, but I’ll bite…
Lets be honest, today’s forums are a cesspool of useless whining.. And while that very well may be the result of what you’re implying (in fact it probably is, since I don’t remember forums being this toxic 6 or more months ago), the fact that you didn’t quote the most important part of that paragraph works no better for the point you are trying to make then Sensotix’s approach.
Lastly, not to be the devils advocate, but CDI is at least an attempt (if not potentially much more) to repair the situation. Shouldn’t we all at least try to make an attempt of our own at being more objective and meaningfully interact with each other and devs ? Not to sound too corny, but isn’t that something we should try to do for the game we enjoy and/or love ?

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

Slim.3024:

Sensotix.4106:

are you serious man? whats wrong with my torment suggestion? do you agree with punishing players for moving lolz

You are looking at it the wrong way. Torment is not punishing you for moving, it is rewarding you for standing still. The decision is on you to understand when taking advantage of it is actually going to be “advantageous”.

The condition is meant as a deterrent for people who decide to run away from you. Its purpose is for the aggressor to stick to their target more easily, which is exactly what it does. If Torment did less damage for targets who moved, this purpose would be voided.

you just can’t stand still in this game it’s your instant death man…the way torment works is just wrong

Why bother quoting me, if you do not even make the slightest effort of understanding what I just explained to you. Torment was designed to encourage you NOT to move. It’s like an immobilize that you can choose to ignore for a little extra damage.

For the love of god, take a step back and read, you might learn a thing or two. There are abilities in this game that force you to stand still and take whatever you are about to receive. Do we want to remove these too, because this game is “move or die”? It’s their exact purpose to not allow you to move.

Furthermore, you simply can not advocate an intensity stacking cripple and then proceed to argue that you need to be able to move in this game or you are dead. You demand that a movement-impairing effect should be made stronger, yet you want torment to be changed in its purpose, when the arguments for these individual changes are worlds apart and incongruent.

i know but why would you like to have a condition that punishes the right decision which is to move…there should rather be something that punishes you for doing the wrong thing..blind: punishes you for attacking while blinded..confusio: punishes you for attacking…but punishing for moving in a game where moving is the most important thing..i really get your point i really do..it’s just the idea of torment that i don’t get..also you can’t really combine it with other skills atm

Thedenofsin.7340:

teogeos.1364:

Sensotix.4106:

Blind: make the skills that apply a blind instant (like we see on ele) but decrease the blind duration
Poison: remove damage
Chill: remove that it slows down enemies
Cripple: let it stack in intensity
Torment: change the skill so it does double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise
Immobilise: max duration 5 sec
Fear: move the “terror” trait on necro to grandmaster
Weakness: let it stack in intensity and reduce the duration of weakness applied by skills a little bit
Vulnerability: Increases damage the target takes by 2% instead of 1% stacks in intensity.

How will that affect the Game:
Conditions will be used more carefully and we don’t see the spam we all hate

I think this deserves more arguments if you want it to be constructive and promote a discussion about it. You can’t just say “change this and that” and justify it with a non so obvious consequence. The torment change is the only argued one.
.

The blind change is clearly intended to make Blind a reflexive trait to avoid incoming damage. In other words, you see an attack coming and use blind to avoid it: rewards timing and counterplay. Good idea.

The poison change is an attempt to dial down condition damage overall and reduce it to a smaller set of sources. Removing the damage component could open avenues to increase its duration, which would make it better counterplay against heavy regen/healing classes. Good idea.

Removing slow from chill is another way to tone down the effects of condition spam. I’m not 100% sold on this yet.

Cripple change is married to the slow change.

Fear – we all understand the Terror argument.

Weakness – it’s insanely powerful (and undervalued by many). This is an attempt to tone it down but at the same time make coordinated use of it more potent.

Blind: yes it was pretty obvious, but this could end making blind a too easy counter to telegraphed skills, knowing that often blind skills have short cds. For instance, the iZerker cast for mesmers is very talegraphed. Sometimes, when I play mesmer, I’m blinded while casting it so I loose the phantasm’s dps plus an illusion to shatter, whitch is annoying. If my enemies were able to easily do this all day long, because of short cds on their blind skills, I would be a bit angry. Another example: personally, as a mesmer, very often when a war uses his hammer F1 without stab, I use my Diversion right before he reaches the ground, so I interrupt him. The only reason why this is fair is that Diversion has a long cd so I can’t just do that everytime. I will not be able to do it twice in a fight, but being able to do it once is enough to balance the fight. You say that it rewards timing and couterplay, but where is the counter to the insta counter? I don’t feel incredibly skilled when I use an instant Diversion to iterrupt a war, and the timing is pretty easy.

Poison: Yes, maybe it could be good to remove the damage, but I disagree with the idea of incrasing it’s duration because:
1) heavy regen/healing classes are also often those that can clean condis often. Maybe they will just cleanse your long duration poison like they cleanse the short duration one.
2) At the end, those that already have difficulties with conditions and that have only one heal will be the more affected ones, being poisoned every time they heal.
Personally, I think that poison is already a spammy condition. Some classes can put very long poisons on you (without you needing to stay on their poison fields), they just put it on you at the beginning of the fight knowing that it will still be there when you’ll heal. I would prefer short poisons having to be timed. 7 sec, for instance, would be a wide enough window of time where you can predict your enemy to try to heal (cause he’s mid life, has a defensive attitude, is hiding, disengaging a bit…).

Chill: chill is very strong but isn’t a spammy condi, you’re rarely chilled twice in a fight, idk if it has to be changed, I don’t see it as a priority.

Cripple: Again, we can’t see what version is better if you don’t give an idea of what a stack would represent in terms of % of reduced mobility. But yes there are a few skills that apply pretty long cripples or that renew them too much, idk.

mini.6018:

The ammount of clueless suggestions from op and the rest is incredible.It speaks volumes about the the present and future of pvp sadly.Unfortunately less and less players with wide knowledge about all classes are to be found on forums and" buff my class nerf the other i agree as long you nerf the classes i din’t faceroll" it’s dominating.
Lol at remove slow from chill but give free cripple that stacks intensity to everyone.Where is the logic in that?.And lol to make might give only power damage,condi builds should not benefit from might because?.Only reading threads like these knowing that i would need to write a thousand pages novel just to adress what is wrong with these suggestions, or just get infracted cuz that would be reasonably impossible, makes me feel like switching to pve or just unninstal altogether.

Please Josh continue listening to these sugestions i know they somehow make sense for you exactly like it does for them.Nerfing combustive shot because it replenishes too much andrenaline.

It doesn’t give any omg.Volumes.

when did i say that might should only improve power damage? and about the chill change..why would you want to have chill and cripple in the game which basically slows the enemy down..chill being more effective here (that was my thought) people are complaining about mindless condi spam..so my idea was to decrease the number of condis and/or make every condi have one specific effect which you use in certain situations

teogeos.1364:

Thedenofsin.7340:

teogeos.1364:

Sensotix.4106:

Blind: make the skills that apply a blind instant (like we see on ele) but decrease the blind duration
Poison: remove damage
Chill: remove that it slows down enemies
Cripple: let it stack in intensity
Torment: change the skill so it does double dmg while the target is not moving (in a game where good positioning and movement is a key to win a fight moving should not be punished) it also can lead to nice combinations with stun and immobilise
Immobilise: max duration 5 sec
Fear: move the “terror” trait on necro to grandmaster
Weakness: let it stack in intensity and reduce the duration of weakness applied by skills a little bit
Vulnerability: Increases damage the target takes by 2% instead of 1% stacks in intensity.

How will that affect the Game:
Conditions will be used more carefully and we don’t see the spam we all hate

I think this deserves more arguments if you want it to be constructive and promote a discussion about it. You can’t just say “change this and that” and justify it with a non so obvious consequence. The torment change is the only argued one.
.

The blind change is clearly intended to make Blind a reflexive trait to avoid incoming damage. In other words, you see an attack coming and use blind to avoid it: rewards timing and counterplay. Good idea.

The poison change is an attempt to dial down condition damage overall and reduce it to a smaller set of sources. Removing the damage component could open avenues to increase its duration, which would make it better counterplay against heavy regen/healing classes. Good idea.

Removing slow from chill is another way to tone down the effects of condition spam. I’m not 100% sold on this yet.

Cripple change is married to the slow change.

Fear – we all understand the Terror argument.

Weakness – it’s insanely powerful (and undervalued by many). This is an attempt to tone it down but at the same time make coordinated use of it more potent.

Blind: yes it was pretty obvious, but this could end making blind a too easy counter to telegraphed skills, knowing that often blind skills have short cds. For instance, the iZerker cast for mesmers is very talegraphed. Sometimes, when I play mesmer, I’m blinded while casting it so I loose the phantasm’s dps plus an illusion to shatter, whitch is annoying. If my enemies were able to easily do this all day long, because of short cds on their blind skills, I would be a bit angry. Another example: personally, as a mesmer, very often when a war uses his hammer F1 without stab, I use my Diversion right before he reaches the ground, so I interrupt him. The only reason why this is fair is that Diversion has a long cd so I can’t just do that everytime. I will not be able to do it twice in a fight, but being able to do it once is enough to balance the fight. You say that it rewards timing and couterplay, but where is the counter to the insta counter? I don’t feel incredibly skilled when I use an instant Diversion to iterrupt a war, and the timing is pretty easy.

Poison: Yes, maybe it could be good to remove the damage, but I disagree with the idea of incrasing it’s duration because:
1) heavy regen/healing classes are also often those that can clean condis often. Maybe they will just cleanse your long duration poison like they cleanse the short duration one.
2) At the end, those that already have difficulties with conditions and that have only one heal will be the more affected ones, being poisoned every time they heal.
Personally, I think that poison is already a spammy condition. Some classes can put very long poisons on you (without you needing to stay on their poison fields), they just put it on you at the beginning of the fight knowing that it will still be there when you’ll heal. I would prefer short poisons having to be timed. 7 sec, for instance, would be a wide enough window of time where you can predict your enemy to try to heal (cause he’s mid life, has a defensive attitude, is hiding, disengaging a bit…).

Chill: chill is very strong but isn’t a spammy condi, you’re rarely chilled twice in a fight, idk if it has to be changed, I don’t see it as a priority.

Cripple: Again, we can’t see what version is better if you don’t give an idea of what a stack would represent in terms of % of reduced mobility. But yes there are a few skills that apply pretty long cripples or that renew them too much, idk.

i agree that the poison duration should not be too long to prevent spamm ! good point!
about cripple i am not set yet on the amount of % and things like that or how to balance certain stuff should be discussed in a state of the game imo with other players as well

Senso u are right in many things but form my point of view (necro) i cant agree with u.

Torment works fine , problem is that thief,mesmer,war have to easy acces to it when necro need to be close range a chanell the skill , its great defensive and ofensive mechanism for necro.

Chill chnage? Never , chill for a necro to slow ppl is a must , if u want to make this change on chill u need to rework traits/wepon skills/utilitis on necro and thats not gonna happen.

Terror moved to GM? Ok i can agree but only if devs gonna rework our adept and master traits , we have a lot of good GM traits and thats the problem becouse most of our adept/master is usless

Autoatack to strong on necro?? Idk. The problem is that our autoatack is our main source of bleeds witch we are getting less on other skills every month so without reworking other skills autoatack need to stay same.

So basicly to make your sugestions work u need to rework a lot of necro things , and its only necro point of view. And its not like i am defending curent state of necro balance becouse necros are in realy bad position atm , thing is that i want to make class that o love to play be at least playble , there is a lot of things to fix/change in the game and it will take months.

Forsaker.9213:

Senso u are right in many things but form my point of view (necro) i cant agree with u.

Torment works fine , problem is that thief,mesmer,war have to easy acces to it when necro need to be close range a chanell the skill , its great defensive and ofensive mechanism for necro.

Chill chnage? Never , chill for a necro to slow ppl is a must , if u want to make this change on chill u need to rework traits/wepon skills/utilitis on necro and thats not gonna happen.

Terror moved to GM? Ok i can agree but only if devs gonna rework our adept and master traits , we have a lot of good GM traits and thats the problem becouse most of our adept/master is usless

Autoatack to strong on necro?? Idk. The problem is that our autoatack is our main source of bleeds witch we are getting less on other skills every month so without reworking other skills autoatack need to stay same.

So basicly to make your sugestions work u need to rework a lot of necro , and its only necro point of view. And its not like i am defending curent state of necro balance becouse necros are in realy bad position atm , thing is that i want to make class that o love to play be at least playble , there is a lot of things to fix/change in the game and it will take months.

hm you might be right actually i will change some things

ExaFlare.1390:

While I think that Diamond Skin is less OP than Automated Response.
Things like Automated Response and Diamond Skin should not exist. You can’t give a player this kind of passive ability. Either give an actual reduced condi duration instead of total immunity, or make it work like Berserker Stance.
Passive play should not be encouraged anyway.

I also think that Settler’s Amulet has a ridiculous stats spread, those 3 stats should never be together in tpvp. Condi bunker is the worst kind of bunker.

Just wait for the Dire Amulet…

Soilder.3607:

ExaFlare.1390:

While I think that Diamond Skin is less OP than Automated Response.
Things like Automated Response and Diamond Skin should not exist. You can’t give a player this kind of passive ability. Either give an actual reduced condi duration instead of total immunity, or make it work like Berserker Stance.
Passive play should not be encouraged anyway.

I also think that Settler’s Amulet has a ridiculous stats spread, those 3 stats should never be together in tpvp. Condi bunker is the worst kind of bunker.

Just wait for the Dire Amulet…

Yeah. I hope they listen to all the players saying that Dire should not be added to spvp

ExaFlare.1390:

Soilder.3607:

ExaFlare.1390:

While I think that Diamond Skin is less OP than Automated Response.
Things like Automated Response and Diamond Skin should not exist. You can’t give a player this kind of passive ability. Either give an actual reduced condi duration instead of total immunity, or make it work like Berserker Stance.
Passive play should not be encouraged anyway.

I also think that Settler’s Amulet has a ridiculous stats spread, those 3 stats should never be together in tpvp. Condi bunker is the worst kind of bunker.

Just wait for the Dire Amulet…

Yeah. I hope they listen to all the players saying that Dire should not be added to spvp

If they do, omg, so many builds would become super op. Think of staff/scepter mesmers, 3 kit engi’s, lb/ dual sword warriors, p/d thieves, necros…

Slim.3024:

You are looking at it the wrong way. Torment is not punishing you for moving, it is rewarding you for standing still. The decision is on you to understand when taking advantage of it is actually going to be “advantageous”.

Like hambow war rewards you for playing pve

Soilder.3607:

ExaFlare.1390:

Soilder.3607:

ExaFlare.1390:

While I think that Diamond Skin is less OP than Automated Response.
Things like Automated Response and Diamond Skin should not exist. You can’t give a player this kind of passive ability. Either give an actual reduced condi duration instead of total immunity, or make it work like Berserker Stance.
Passive play should not be encouraged anyway.

I also think that Settler’s Amulet has a ridiculous stats spread, those 3 stats should never be together in tpvp. Condi bunker is the worst kind of bunker.

Just wait for the Dire Amulet…

Yeah. I hope they listen to all the players saying that Dire should not be added to spvp

If they do, omg, so many builds would become super op. Think of staff/scepter mesmers, 3 kit engi’s, lb/ dual sword warriors, p/d thieves, necros…

hope this will never be implemented in pvp or we will see a condi bunker meta

Sensotix.4106:

Thief: I am not sure how thief will develope so I will try to be a little bit careful here..imo the possibility to dodge a lot even after the patch will still allow very good players to be “beasts” and completely destroy other classes…the unbalanced thing here is that other classes don’t have that possibility which makes it unbalanced imo

Keep in mind all aspects of the Game, there are roles to Play for every class, thats reason why guards dont get a 25% passive Speed, warris dont get stealth(yet ^^) and thiefs dont get a invulnerability skills, the fact they can dodge more then all others is … you know already … avoid dmg …. especially for all thoose thief without stealth or playing with p/x , sh, s/p , you will learn love your dodges when playing some of theese weapons. BUT EVERY other class can have more dodges, too, maybe if there are willing to Play with energy sigils and Rune of adventure.

Anets devs give us advice to wait until the dec 10th, I think there will be more important things comming out, maybe things that havent spoken about yet…. suprises.

The only problem i have with any of this is that it will spill over into WvW killing many many builds . If any of these get through Ranger will never see the light of day in WvW anymore , even as a roamer . Power builds are boring by design as in essence it is a burst concept .

The problem is , conditions do the same damage in PvP and WvW but the total amount of stats in PvP is lower . There is no food to boot . One could easily argue that conditions are not a problem in WvW for many classes .

Point i am trying to make : There needs to be a separation between modes . Many styles and builds were killed in WvW due to PvP changes .

Sensotix.4106:

Tranassa.4968:

I don’t really understand why you want to remove the dmg from poison – because that is actually what a poison does… it kills you!
Same with chill, if i see a condition like “freez”, “chill”, “Forst”… my intuitive understanding of the word tells me that it slows me in some way. If you remove this effect it is some sort of couter intuitive.

But i agree with you, conditions as they are atm are not in a good place. I would prever to have them more weakening the oponent over a long duration, similar to the buffs. For example we got “protection” which is reducing the dmg by silly 33%, while the “counter condition” “vulnerability” is only increasing the dmg by poor 1%. Conditions deal to much dmg and last not long enough, imo. I would rather like to see it similar like in gw1 where conditions where a huge preasure, which killed SLOWLY over time. What we have atm is rather the possibility to ignore the targets armor.
The problem with changing something here is, that it inflicts everything… Weapon skills, healing, condition remove, condition duration, utility skills, traits…

What i also don’t like is the massive ele weapon BUFF, almost every ele i see is running at least ice bow – even in pve

The reason i think dmg should be removed from poison is that we already have bleeding, burning, torment and fear that deal damage so we dont need another one..also poison would be used more specific when it doesnt do any dmg…and i think chill should not slow people down because cripple already does that so why have two condis that do the same?

So chill would do nothing to thieves then?

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dirame.8521:

Halting Strike… not dodgeable?…. WHAT??

Yes. Halting Strike damages an opponent if a Mesmer successfully interrupts their cast. So it requires a precise attack at a precise time to score the damage.

That’s exactly why I am absolutely flabbergasted by the comment that Halting Strike is instant and undodgeable. How the heck does a skill that requires such timing, become instant and undodgeable?

People were complaining that the old shutdown mesmer wasn’t available anymore, it becomes available and all of a sudden, Halting Strike is OP? So what the OP and some of you guys are saying is that you don’t want the Mesmer to be rewarded for successfully timing an interrupt?

well i see your point but no one times his interrupts..because the clones reach the target at random times and chaos storm is also random
you can of course dodge the clones and the knock from time to time and i never said that halting strike is op..its just that it also is instant damage which you cant predict..ofc you need much more skill to interrupt an enemy than just switching to air for the instant lighting strike but still it is instant damage and instant damage as well as too much immunity destroy a balanced game…there is almost no counterplay to a timed interrupt

You time your interrupts for things like stopping a stomp or a heal. If you spec for Mantra of Distraction, you typically try to time your interrupts.

I disagree on your last comment. Counterplay to interrupts is proactive, not reactive. Stability, quickness, stealth, interrupts/stuns/knockbacks/etc are the proactve counterplay to interrupts.

Sensotix.4106:

*Diamond Skin:* this trait is a 100% immunity to condi dmg which is never a good thing in a game (the question if it is good or not is not my main point here) my main point is that it doesn’t take any skill which can actually lead to a lower skilled player winning against a good player since you don’t even have to active it in a perfect moment

Yeah, I main ele, and will probably play with DS after the patch to see if it gives me any kind of a chance against the horrible condi meta.

If damaging conditions exist, they become horribly unfair in a game with varied base HP pools. I try not to play with triple cantrips (love my glyphs too much), and am toying at the moment with not speccing into water magic, but most builds that can apply multiple damaging conditions will just ruin me - they’re reapplied so very frequently, and that war, necro and engi builds tend to come with a bunch of CC on top of that means non-instant cleanses are often rendered useless.

So yeah, I’m looking forward to this skill to see what it does for ele viability and to counter the current urgh... but I still don’t like that it has to exist. I’d much rather a lowering of condition damage across the board, possibly:
- In the manner that Sensotix suggests, so that base damage is much less threatening and players actually have to spec heavily into condamage/conduration to use condi as their primary damage source.
- By reducing durations on a number of damaging conditions (especially autoattack ones), and/or reducing the number of different condis any particular class can apply. I’d suggest more cleanse, but that’s just letting the power creep stand up and start jogging rather than fixing the problem.
- By changing one or two conditions entirely - I love them as a source of control (though stacked immob is stupid now*) and would like more of this in the game. Not sure how this could happen practically with current ones (maybe bleed does less damage but each stack gives a chance of glancing blows?) and replacing then rebalancing with entirely new ones would be even more work. Not really expecting this to happen! :P

*I’d like immobilise to only stack extra over the end of the existing duration, if possible. For example: A player is immobilised and has 3s left, when a new 5s immob comes in. A is now unable to move for 5s. If a 2s immob had hit (instead of the 5s), only the original 3s would remain. Right now, unless you have anti-immob-specific skills in your build, it’s very easy for foes to stack it, use cover condis, and burst a player down who has no chance of reatreat.

Re: Torment, I love Sensotix’s suggestion - most classes really have to move about, and we already have ways to control enemy movement. If we have to keep this damaging condition, flip it round so that it’s no longer completely lethal to someone trying to dodge the next incoming fear.

Sensotix.4106:

Dirame.8521:

Sensotix.4106:

Blimm.5028:

Senso, I DO time my interrupts. My entire build revolves around shutting down my target not by permanent daze, but by precise interrupts. I do predict casts from time to time, like people tend to mash a skill when they are dazed to use it as soon as daze ends so I do an other daze 1/4 second after the first ends.
The only random interrupt in my build is F3.
I have sword offhand, Greatsword and the daze mantra.

yea but the problem is that such a lockdown build is hardly tourny viable..especially not in the current meta

That depends on how your team is built. Such a build can shutdown a Necro or an Engineer or any class that is a problem for that matter.

yea but those two classes arent really played atm..we see a lot of thieves warris guards and spirit rangers and a lockdown build vs warri is not really effective thats what i meant

Then what do you want the reward for timed interrupts to be? You can have damage, buffs, or debuffs, and all of them were considered crappy until the buff choice became easier to grab and the damage choice did more damage.

Aza.2105:

Sensotix.4106:

Tranassa.4968:

I don’t really understand why you want to remove the dmg from poison – because that is actually what a poison does… it kills you!
Same with chill, if i see a condition like “freez”, “chill”, “Forst”… my intuitive understanding of the word tells me that it slows me in some way. If you remove this effect it is some sort of couter intuitive.

But i agree with you, conditions as they are atm are not in a good place. I would prever to have them more weakening the oponent over a long duration, similar to the buffs. For example we got “protection” which is reducing the dmg by silly 33%, while the “counter condition” “vulnerability” is only increasing the dmg by poor 1%. Conditions deal to much dmg and last not long enough, imo. I would rather like to see it similar like in gw1 where conditions where a huge preasure, which killed SLOWLY over time. What we have atm is rather the possibility to ignore the targets armor.
The problem with changing something here is, that it inflicts everything… Weapon skills, healing, condition remove, condition duration, utility skills, traits…

What i also don’t like is the massive ele weapon BUFF, almost every ele i see is running at least ice bow – even in pve

The reason i think dmg should be removed from poison is that we already have bleeding, burning, torment and fear that deal damage so we dont need another one..also poison would be used more specific when it doesnt do any dmg…and i think chill should not slow people down because cripple already does that so why have two condis that do the same?

So chill would do nothing to thieves then?

there i would suggest to slow down the regeneration of initiative a tiny bit

Great suggestions but I doubt anything of this would be considered. Balance team is separate from PvP team so they have no idea of the cheese that their patches bring. They do the opposite thing they should. Conditions in PvP are out of control and conditions in PvE are bottom of the ocean.

Chokolata.1870:

The only problem i have with any of this is that it will spill over into WvW killing many many builds . If any of these get through Ranger will never see the light of day in WvW anymore , even as a roamer . Power builds are boring by design as in essence it is a burst concept .

The problem is , conditions do the same damage in PvP and WvW but the total amount of stats in PvP is lower . There is no food to boot . One could easily argue that conditions are not a problem in WvW for many classes .

Point i am trying to make : There needs to be a separation between modes . Many styles and builds were killed in WvW due to PvP changes .

ok i accept your point but pls, pls, if you wana complain about something related to wvsw dont come to spvp forum go to wvw forum.

Thx a lot