Thief: Last Refuge

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

Last Refuge is the first minor trait in the shadow tree and it activates blinding powder at 25%. This trait is extremely frustrating and i absolutely despise it. Been playing thief since launch and i have learned how to play around it, but still it has the same major flaw. Considering thieves are relatively squishy and depend on stealth for survival.. nothing hurts more than a 4 second reveal at 25% hp because last refuge proced at the wrong time. This issue keeps popping up especially when ur health drops quickly while in the middle of action… for example when using cloak and dagger. With a 3 second reveal it was manageable, able to use evade twice in a row to kill some time, but with 4 seconds you are screwed. I ask this trait to be fixed, ideas would be that it shouldn’t proc reveal or that it causes invulnerability similar to eles’ mist form or completely remove it.

(edited by RoldyV.9876)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

While that Trait is buffed, I would like to ask that Shadow Refuge be nerfed to the point to where it doesn’t heal, and doesn’t allow you to stealth downed players to Res them.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Kline.9561

Kline.9561

Last Refuge is the first minor trait in the shadow tree and it activates blinding powder at 25%. This trait is extremely frustrating and i absolutely despise it. Been playing thief since launch and i have learned how to play around it, but still it has the same major flaw. Considering thieves are relatively squishy and depend on stealth for survival.. nothing hurts more than a 4 second reveal at 25% hp because last refuge proced at the wrong time. This issue keeps popping up especially when ur health drops quickly while in the middle of action… for example when using cloak and dagger. With a 3 second reveal it was manageable, able to use evade twice in a row to kill some time, but with 4 seconds you are screwed. I ask this trait to be fixed, ideas would be that it shouldn’t proc reveal or that it causes vulnerability similar to eles’ mist form or completely remove it.

make it proc at a higher percentage of health prolly help a bit

And before says my build doesn’t work, when Ele’s get nerfed it will be -Schwahrheit

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Kline.9561

Kline.9561

While that Trait is buffed, I would like to ask that Shadow Refuge be nerfed to the point to where it doesn’t heal, and doesn’t allow you to stealth downed players to Res them.

pigeon hole a thief into one trait for survivability while striping a skill that ensures they have group utility and a reason to bring them into tpvp.
no thanks

And before says my build doesn’t work, when Ele’s get nerfed it will be -Schwahrheit

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

lets not get side tracked with shadow refuge… lets focus on last refuge
// but i dont think shadow refuge is a big issue: push backs, fear, cc, or nuking are all great counters

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Noctis Assassin.4035

Noctis Assassin.4035

I’m just waiting for them to nerf sword thief more, cause they’re op, right? Or for anet to “buff” them and by buff i mean nerf and to give the actual buff to dagger/pistol.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

The real issue is reveal from the terrible last refuge proc

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

Last Refuge is the first minor trait in the shadow tree and it activates blinding powder at 25%. This trait is extremely frustrating and i absolutely despise it. Been playing thief since launch and i have learned how to play around it, but still it has the same major flaw. Considering thieves are relatively squishy and depend on stealth for survival.. nothing hurts more than a 4 second reveal at 25% hp because last refuge proced at the wrong time. This issue keeps popping up especially when ur health drops quickly while in the middle of action… for example when using cloak and dagger. With a 3 second reveal it was manageable, able to use evade twice in a row to kill some time, but with 4 seconds you are screwed. I ask this trait to be fixed, ideas would be that it shouldn’t proc reveal or that it causes vulnerability similar to eles’ mist form or completely remove it.

make it proc at a higher percentage of health prolly help a bit

That’s still avoiding the issue … 50 or 25% its still hard to predict when its going to proc especially when you’re being hit hard

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: pullnointer.1476

pullnointer.1476

lol @ people completely failing to read & process

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Kline.9561

Kline.9561

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

subjective opinion is subjective

i’ve never had problems with a thief using shadow refuge to rez and countering it

trying using knockdowns and knockbacks there not immune to getting hit while in stealth

so as a necro save your number five on your staff for fearing them out of it or call it out and have someone on your team use there knockbacks

And before says my build doesn’t work, when Ele’s get nerfed it will be -Schwahrheit

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Kline.9561

Kline.9561

That’s still avoiding the issue … 50 or 25% its still hard to predict when its going to proc especially when you’re being hit hard[/quote]
the issue is not the trait itself but the game and that little thing we call client server latency if higher health wont suffice then all i can say is don’t get hit cuz i cant think of a way to make it proc passively that would be optimal

honestly though they do need to rework the stealth debuff in general because it hurt a lot of builds that are not perma stealth

or make the trait ignore stealth debuff

And before says my build doesn’t work, when Ele’s get nerfed it will be -Schwahrheit

(edited by Kline.9561)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: EoNxBoNx.9213

EoNxBoNx.9213

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

I lol’d

“You’re either a Noob or a Pro your entire life, that’s life”
IGN – Kinjax // World – Anvil Rock
IGN – InTheseDays // World – Anvil Rock

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: NevirSayDie.6235

NevirSayDie.6235

Create an option to disable minor traits. There are others that are honestly a handicap and if I could turn them off, I would.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

Create an option to disable minor traits. There are others that are honestly a handicap and if I could turn them off, I would.

Or have minor trait options (choose 3 from a set of 6) … but thats never going to happen

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Opc.4718

Opc.4718

I think people are getting confused about the issue here. Last refuge =/= shadow refuge and I absolutely agree with OP. Lets keep it on topic.

Kehlirixx Q | Nixx Q | Classic Bunker

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

Except that SoU is a… Signet. What did you expect, that you’d get both the passive as well as a superior active? Also, SR doesn’t get an insta-res. In fact, you’re often lucky to pull off one res in SR. AoE and CC make SR ridiculously difficult to rez in. It’s crazy.

Also, SR is our only real direct defense ally support.

The cooldown still makes this a very difficult skill to time properly.

The heal really isn’t that much. I’m pretty sure eles heal for more just by switching to their Water attunement for three seconds.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

Is there anything else to you not OverPower??? I truly believe hey Necro is so bad ATM… Can you please at least think before you post. Thanks. And if you don’t know, don’t say anything as if you understand the matter. much appreciated

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Except that SoU is a… Signet. What did you expect, that you’d get both the passive as well as a superior active? Also, SR doesn’t get an insta-res. In fact, you’re often lucky to pull off one res in SR. AoE and CC make SR ridiculously difficult to rez in. It’s crazy.

Also, SR is our only real direct defense ally support.

The cooldown still makes this a very difficult skill to time properly.

The heal really isn’t that much. I’m pretty sure eles heal for more just by switching to their Water attunement for three seconds.

Signet of Undeath is a crappy signet, with virtually no point in it having a passive. The LF gain is virtually nonexistent to justify it being a signet. I understand that SR is your only real defensive support option, that doesn’t mean it needs to be strong as sin. No, I’m not QQing because I can’t defeat it, I’m irritated because too much reliance is put on that. I can’t go 30 seconds in a game with a Thief without seeing either Heartseeker, Deathblossom, or Shadow Refuge. What I want to see is more diversity in Thief, so they don’t have to rely on such gimmicky and rather annoying things.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Raptured.9307

Raptured.9307

you realize shadow refuge is one of the few actually useful group utilities a thief brings to a team atm and they’re still UP for tpvp.

Rank 37 spvp, dungeon master
[HL] Deadly Protection @ Sanctum of Culling

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Empathetic Fighter.2065

Empathetic Fighter.2065

you realize shadow refuge is one of the few actually useful group utilities a thief brings to a team atm and they’re still UP for tpvp.

Actually it’s the only one they can bring.

Read It Backwards [BooN]

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Which is why, if you read my post, I don’t want them to rely on it. I want Thieves to have access to different things to use, and diversify their skillsets.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Which is why, if you read my post, I don’t want them to rely on it. I want Thieves to have access to different things to use, and diversify their skillsets.

Please enlight us Mr..Pro. What can you suggest if that is all VIABLE stuff we can use to be able to Competitively PVP? We need more action,more constructive idea, not some baseless Claim. Cheer

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

ignore the troll and focus on last refuge..
picture two scenarios .. the first one is your coming out of stealth, you have a 4 second reveal, and you just hit 25% hp … last refuge procs but does not nothing b/c youre immune to stealth
The second scenario is you are in the middle of an action, in this case you are using cloak and dagger on a half second cast (p/d), while being quickly hit to 25%… Last refuge procs first and your cloak & dagger hits late, taking you out of stealth with a 4 second reveal -> so you have wasted both actions, wasted 6 initiative, and left no chance of surviving at 25%
For those of you who do not know what reveal is … it doesnt allow you to stealth at all, making you immune to all stealth

(edited by RoldyV.9876)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: thechamp.3092

thechamp.3092

Last Refuge is an extremely usefull trait, just learn to play with it.

Shad

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

Last Refuge is an extremely usefull trait, just learn to play with it.

Traits are supposed to be beneficial, but in a stealth oriented build (p/d) Last Refuge is an extreme disadvantage.

If you “just learn to play with it” then LR would require you to disengage combat before 25%hp … With thieves having a low hp pool and being relatively squishy, you can maybe squeeze in 2 p/d rotations ( which gives 8 seconds of reveal) before having to disengage AND thats only in 1v1 situation.

(edited by RoldyV.9876)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Kaon.7192

Kaon.7192

Last Refuge is an extremely usefull trait, just learn to play with it.

Traits are supposed to be beneficial, but in a stealth oriented build (p/d) Last Refuge is an extreme disadvantage.

If you “just learn to play with it” then LR would require you to disengage combat before 25%hp …

Not to mention you’re going to have to “learn” when your opponent (or opponents collectively) are going to use their big bursts to bring you down to 25% in an instant and plan your moves pre-emptively.

I suppose we should all just “learn” to read minds over the internet like Mr. Champ over here.

(edited by Kaon.7192)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Blackhat.4016

Blackhat.4016

Last Refuge is the first minor trait in the shadow tree and it activates blinding powder at 25%. This trait is extremely frustrating and i absolutely despise it. Been playing thief since launch and i have learned how to play around it, but still it has the same major flaw. Considering thieves are relatively squishy and depend on stealth for survival.. nothing hurts more than a 4 second reveal at 25% hp because last refuge proced at the wrong time. This issue keeps popping up especially when ur health drops quickly while in the middle of action… for example when using cloak and dagger. With a 3 second reveal it was manageable, able to use evade twice in a row to kill some time, but with 4 seconds you are screwed. I ask this trait to be fixed, ideas would be that it shouldn’t proc reveal or that it causes vulnerability similar to eles’ mist form or completely remove it.

Since when does Mist Form cause vulnerability? oO

Imo they shouldn’t remove the trait. Instead they should change it to a major Adept trait. This way the problem would be fixed and people who actually like the trait are still able to use it. There would be a new minor trait needed though (obviously).

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: RoldyV.9876

RoldyV.9876

Last Refuge is the first minor trait in the shadow tree and it activates blinding powder at 25%. This trait is extremely frustrating and i absolutely despise it. Been playing thief since launch and i have learned how to play around it, but still it has the same major flaw. Considering thieves are relatively squishy and depend on stealth for survival.. nothing hurts more than a 4 second reveal at 25% hp because last refuge proced at the wrong time. This issue keeps popping up especially when ur health drops quickly while in the middle of action… for example when using cloak and dagger. With a 3 second reveal it was manageable, able to use evade twice in a row to kill some time, but with 4 seconds you are screwed. I ask this trait to be fixed, ideas would be that it shouldn’t proc reveal or that it causes vulnerability similar to eles’ mist form or completely remove it.

Since when does Mist Form cause vulnerability? oO

Imo they shouldn’t remove the trait. Instead they should change it to a major Adept trait. This way the problem would be fixed and people who actually like the trait are still able to use it. There would be a new minor trait needed though (obviously).

Thanks for the note.
Fixed the INvulnerable.
Changing it into a major trait would be an easy solution..

(edited by RoldyV.9876)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: swinsk.6410

swinsk.6410

After getting a last refuge any skill the gives stealth needs to ignore revealed…

So, if you get last refuge right before hitting a CnD the CnD will just add more stealth time to your last refuge.

But this bonus to not getting revealed needs to only last for like 5s or 4s or something, not the entire duration of your stealth.

Just another noob thief…

(edited by swinsk.6410)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Xsorus.2507

Xsorus.2507

When i played my thief, Last Refuge ended up killing me more times then saving me.

This makes it a worthless talent

http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Natures Ninja and Pain Inverter – Ranger PvP movies
http://www.twitch.tv/xsorovos

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: garethh.3518

garethh.3518

At the moment, Shadow Refuge is an overpowered skill. It’s more effective than my Signet of Undeath, as it has a shorter cooldown, stealths, and heals. I’m fine with buffing some other Thief skills, as long as that one is toned down. Alot.

It’s essentially an “All in one” skill. Which is dumb.

Aoes, people can still swing and chuck stuff at the spot where the downed person is.
Signet of undeath bypasses that and is ranged.
Shadow refuge has more overall utility though, which does make it notably better.

Rezzing while stealthed probably should reveal you.
Besides that the only thing I don’t like about shadow refuge is how long the duration for stealth you get from it is, ideally the refuge would have a bit larger area and last 8~ more seconds but only apply 2.5~ seconds worth of stealth every 2s your in it. It’d be cool if the thief would only get stealthed by it if he clicks the shadow refuge button while in it, so it just doesn’t accidentally burn revealed timers.
It’d be less of a ‘long stealth chareup’ and more of an offensive threat as the thief can pull out more stealth openers or stall if he stays in its area.

(edited by garethh.3518)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

Except that SoU is a… Signet. What did you expect, that you’d get both the passive as well as a superior active? Also, SR doesn’t get an insta-res. In fact, you’re often lucky to pull off one res in SR. AoE and CC make SR ridiculously difficult to rez in. It’s crazy.

Also, SR is our only real direct defense ally support.

The cooldown still makes this a very difficult skill to time properly.

The heal really isn’t that much. I’m pretty sure eles heal for more just by switching to their Water attunement for three seconds.

Signet of Undeath is a crappy signet, with virtually no point in it having a passive. The LF gain is virtually nonexistent to justify it being a signet. I understand that SR is your only real defensive support option, that doesn’t mean it needs to be strong as sin. No, I’m not QQing because I can’t defeat it, I’m irritated because too much reliance is put on that. I can’t go 30 seconds in a game with a Thief without seeing either Heartseeker, Deathblossom, or Shadow Refuge. What I want to see is more diversity in Thief, so they don’t have to rely on such gimmicky and rather annoying things.

So, you’re suggesting we nerf thief to make its skills crappy as well? Why not give SoU a boost, then?

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Stealth.9324

Stealth.9324

Which is why, if you read my post, I don’t want them to rely on it. I want Thieves to have access to different things to use, and diversify their skillsets.

Please enlight us Mr..Pro. What can you suggest if that is all VIABLE stuff we can use to be able to Competitively PVP? We need more action,more constructive idea, not some baseless Claim. Cheer

You are absolutely dense. For the 20th freaking time. I stated: “Buff other things. Nerf 3 things Thief has. BUT. Buff. Other. Things. They. Have.”

So that they actually can be useful, rather than heartseeker monkeys.

Oh sorry for not being as smart as you,Mr Pro. As far as I know, you are one the of the few that got the problem with SR. Second thing,you call for nerf in Stealth area and yet you don’t want Thief ad H’s monkey.Woa, a “Wonderful” Idea. My suggestion, learn to play Mr Pro.,calling For nerf Wont make you Better.FEAR him when he go SR, try it see How it goes for you,Mr Pro.
P/s Reported for offended language.
Cheer

Kaane Moka – Champion Magus. Loola Illuma – Champion Genius.
Proud player of : team [uA] – team [TGI]. Australia base, now recruiting.

(edited by Stealth.9324)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

You do realize. That I easily, and unrelentingly dominate Thieves? Stealth, why do you think that I want to nerf Thieves or Elementalists because I can’t beat them? I can beat them. I can beat you, and I can beat every other Thief out there. I’m calling for a Nerf to the things they are forced to rely on, and a buff to their other skills.

I want Thieves to be better. Nerfing SR, nerfing HS, nerfing DB, and buffing some of their traits/weapon sets will help them.

I want Thieves to be buffed in ways that allow them to be more viable. I want them to be nerfed on the things that every thief on the planet relies on.

Please, do read comments more effectively before basing your biased opinion or reporting. Nerfing something doesn’t mean “omg i cant kill them nerf dem nao” as much as you think it does. My suggestion to you, Mr Stealth: Learn to read.

Now, if he doesn’t understand this point for the 4th time, will someone who understands my point please be so kind as to explain to him exactly what I’m saying, as I do not want him to report me again because the only way I could get my point across to him otherwise is with a series of expletives, as he’s beginning to frustrate me.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: ensoriki.5789

ensoriki.5789

You do realize. That I easily, and unrelentingly dominate Thieves?

Say word.

The great forum duppy.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

I want Thieves to be buffed in ways that allow them to be more viable. I want them to be nerfed on the things that every thief on the planet relies on.

1. You haven’t played a thief that much, apparently. We burst, bunker, support, apply conditions, slay groups of enemies, heal like crazy- whatever.

2. “Oh, thieves should be buffed so that they can be more viable, so that’s why we should nerf all of their good abilities”. That’s honestly what you sound like.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

I want Thieves to be better, not worse. However the only way for them to get better, is for a series of nerfs and buffs. No one seems to understand that though.

Arganthium, Thieves rely on those things because they are their ONLY good abilities. Nerfing them, and bringing other skills up to an equal level will open more viability, just like Necro, just like Ele.

How many D/D Elementalists do you see in PvP? Essentially what you just said is “Buff all of Elementalist’s other stuff but also keep D/D builds because that contains all of their good abilities”. No.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

You do realize. That I easily, and unrelentingly dominate Thieves?

Lol. I’d challenge you to a duel, but I get the feeling that it’d be a waste of my time.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

I’d fight you in a duel, but I feel the same. You’d probably just run off to reset every 5 seconds. Not that it matters.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

I’d fight you in a duel, but I feel the same. You’d probably just run off to reset every 5 seconds. Not that it matters.

Please. I run a bunker. I regenerate, I blind, I deal heavy damage, and best of all- I designed it all by myself.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Neat. I run a bursting Necro (or 34 of my other self made builds), that blinds, regenerates, and crits upwards of 4k DPS.

The only reason why any such Thief build is viable, is specifically because of their godlike regeneration/cleansing properties while stealthed (A poorly thought out mechanic). Although I am intrigued, I am also not surprised.

Essentially if I could regenerate and passively cleanse while in Deathshroud (and my Deathshroud regenerated itself passively while not in use) I might be able to compete with such a capability, despite still being targetable.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

The only reason why any such Thief build is viable, is specifically because of their godlike regeneration/cleansing properties while stealthed (A poorly thought out mechanic). Although I am intrigued, I am also not surprised.

See, this is why all of your arguments are terrible. You’re telling us that you want more thief builds to be viable, stating that we need to have more of our abilities buffed. And yet, here you are telling me that we need to get our best form of defense nerfed so that bunker thieves are no longer a thing. And they aren’t the meta, I’ll tell you; we’re more of an unknown group in the thief community still, compared with, say, burst thieves.

You’re told me that you want to see HS, SR, and DB (whatever that stands for; not going to look it up right now) all nerfed, but the only forthcoming reason that you give for this is that you want to “boost our viability”. Nerfing these abilities is basically your way of saying “I don’t like the thief community, I don’t like the way they play, they should change to the way I want them to play”. I can tell you that we love SR, HS, and all that other nonsense, and that the thief community, as a whole, thinks that after a few bug fixes and a few buffs to some weapon sets- specifically, P/P- that we’ll be totally fine. You come here and say that we need to have our whole class rolled over into dust, and then we have to go restructure it all by ourselves. We’ve spent countless hours researching and testing, and now you’re basically telling us to go kitten ourselves.

You don’t want more viability, you want to be able to play against a profession the way that you think you should play against them. And that makes me very angry.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

Essentially if I could regenerate and passively cleanse while in Deathshroud (and my Deathshroud regenerated itself passively while not in use) I might be able to compete with such a capability, despite still being targetable.

Oh please. Deathshroud is a second lifebar for necros that automatically regenerates without having to go through an intense string of tricks left and right to maintain it. Our stealth lasts for a very short time. We don’t get an additional lifebar. We don’t have nearly as much health as you do. Our direct defense is awful. We have very limited ways to get into stealth, and many of them involve attacks that can either be countered or evaded. Thief movement in stealth is predictable. Don’t whine to me when you’re the most/second most survivable profession in the game.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

So essentially you want the current meta to continue. Heartseeker x20. Generic backstab meta builds that barely succeed in killing any good player. You want Thieves to be only brought into high level tournies specifically for Shadow Refuge, as usual?

Alright, fine. Let’s keep D/D Elementalist too, since they Eles are quite fine with their single overly-viable build it seems.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

Essentially if I could regenerate and passively cleanse while in Deathshroud (and my Deathshroud regenerated itself passively while not in use) I might be able to compete with such a capability, despite still being targetable.

Oh please. Deathshroud is a second lifebar for necros that automatically regenerates without having to go through an intense string of tricks left and right to maintain it. Our stealth lasts for a very short time. We don’t get an additional lifebar. We don’t have nearly as much health as you do. Our direct defense is awful. We have very limited ways to get into stealth, and many of them involve attacks that can either be countered or evaded. Thief movement in stealth is predictable. Don’t whine to me when you’re the most/second most survivable profession in the game.

That post tells me you know nothing of Necromancer.

Try keeping a constant 50% Lifeforce up in a tournament. I would trade Deathshroud in a heartbeat(seeker) for Stealth access. Deathshroud is awful, purely, simply. It acts as a second lifebar about as much as an Snickers bar counts as an 3 course meal.

Here’s how to use Deathshroud properly:

  • 1: Spend 5 minutes building it up at the start because you start with 0%.
  • 2: See a Thief
  • 3: Use your Deathshroud to eat 1 Thief backstab
  • 4: Fight Thief with no Deathshroud remaining for the rest of the fight unless you successfully manage to hit him with 5 of the slowest moving projectiles in the game (Just for a tiny 2 second Deathshroud) or waste a slot skill for a 7 second protection that grants lifeforce when you take damage. On a 90 second cooldown.
  • 5: Win or lose against the Thief
  • 6: Spend 5 more minutes building it up again

We can’t just walk around Deathshrouded soaking up damage, the only effective way to use it is to flash in and out of it for the Fear, or perhaps 1 hit. Or the AoE if you’re outnumbered. That’s it. Period.

I’m not going to argue with you about viability of Necro, but you obviously don’t know anything beyond Thief, so… yeah.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

So essentially you want the current meta to continue. Heartseeker x20. Generic backstab meta builds that barely succeed in killing any good player. You want Thieves to be only brought into high level tournies specifically for Shadow Refuge, as usual?

Alright, fine. Let’s keep D/D Elementalist too, since they Eles are quite fine with their single overly-viable build it seems.

HS 20x is easily counterable, and if you can’t defeat it yourself, that’s too bad for you. This method of play is literally one of the few things I see agreed upon by many people across all of the professions; we all agree that it’s worthless and easily defeated.

This isn’t a problem about the thief, this is about the thief community. The thief community metas a BS burst thief right now. I’m in the works of getting them to slowly but surely change their mind about that. Anyhow, it’s their choice to choose such a kittening bad thief build, I don’t know why you should have the right to change that.

Again, not a problem with the thief, that’s a problem with peoples’ subjective points of view. Like you, apparently.

I think that they should be kept. They are easily counterable, and I’m surprised you haven’t learned how to play against them yet. I played a S/D ele for a while, and although it isn’t quite the same as a D/D ele, I’ve learned the rhythm of the ele enough to be able to counter D/D eles. All they are are annoying pests that try to play aggressively against you, and the way to counter that is to play aggressively against them in return. Against the best D/D eles, I’d say a good battle against them might be a split 50/50, but eles have a high learning curve cap. I fully support keeping the D/D ele. That doesn’t mean we can’t buff their other weaponsets, like staves.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

Essentially if I could regenerate and passively cleanse while in Deathshroud (and my Deathshroud regenerated itself passively while not in use) I might be able to compete with such a capability, despite still being targetable.

Oh please. Deathshroud is a second lifebar for necros that automatically regenerates without having to go through an intense string of tricks left and right to maintain it. Our stealth lasts for a very short time. We don’t get an additional lifebar. We don’t have nearly as much health as you do. Our direct defense is awful. We have very limited ways to get into stealth, and many of them involve attacks that can either be countered or evaded. Thief movement in stealth is predictable. Don’t whine to me when you’re the most/second most survivable profession in the game.

That post tells me you know nothing of Necromancer.

Try keeping a constant 50% Lifeforce up in a tournament. I would trade Deathshroud in a heartbeat(seeker) for Stealth access. Deathshroud is awful, purely, simply. It acts as a second lifebar about as much as an Snickers bar counts as an 3 course meal.

Here’s how to use Deathshroud properly:

  • 1: Spend 5 minutes building it up at the start because you start with 0%.
  • 2: See a Thief
  • 3: Use your Deathshroud to eat 1 Thief backstab
  • 4: Fight Thief with no Deathshroud remaining for the rest of the fight unless you successfully manage to hit him with 5 of the slowest moving projectiles in the game (Just for a tiny 2 second Deathshroud) or waste a slot skill for a 7 second protection that grants lifeforce when you take damage. On a 90 second cooldown.
  • 5: Win or lose against the Thief
  • 6: Spend 5 more minutes building it up again

We can’t just walk around Deathshrouded soaking up damage, the only effective way to use it is to flash in and out of it for the Fear, or perhaps 1 hit. Or the AoE if you’re outnumbered. That’s it. Period.

I’m not going to argue with you about viability of Necro, but you obviously don’t know anything beyond Thief, so… yeah.

I have played every single class in the game over and over and over again. I’ve played against hundreds of different builds, with many different self-designed builds. I’ve found myself frustrated with the thief, going off to play another profession, and then coming back to the thief with newfound knowledge that makes me better able to counter other professions, and have fun with my thief. I’ve played necros that could easily build up their lifeforce to the max in, I’d say, at least a fifth of the time that you just stated that it took. You’re making a choice to play the build that you’re playing, and that doesn’t justify nerfing other professions. Play another build that fixes your complaints, or stop complaining.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: TheMightyAltroll.3485

TheMightyAltroll.3485

So you want to keep the most overpowered build in the game, D/D Elementalist (Best bunker, support, and strong bursting), whilst buffing the Ele’s underpowered weaponsets.

Impressive. Would you like Thieves to have a pistol that fires nuclear weapons as well?

I bet you also want to keep Trap Ranger and Regenning Beastmaster too while buffing their Longbow to shoot flaming Chuck Norrises.

While Warrior sits at the bottom of a barrel getting 3 hit killed by Bunker Elementalists.

Thieves ladies and gentlemen. The words “Fair” and “Balanced” hold no meaning to them.

Contact me ingame for Necro, Ranger, Mesmer, and Thief advice.

(edited by TheMightyAltroll.3485)

Thief: Last Refuge

in PvP

Posted by: Arganthium.5638

Arganthium.5638

Thank you for finally showing me the limit of your logic. You’ve decided to stop resorting to arguments that make even the slightest bit of sense, and instead just take everything for a given. You assume that D/D ele must be OP, even though they’re easily killed with correct play. You assume buffing other weapons makes the profession as a whole more powerful. You assume that I think that we should make weapons “OP”, even though I not once stated that. You assume that I think warr shouldn’t be buffed, which is completely contrary to what I believe in and makes no sense whatsoever; I have no idea where you got that one.

Then you finish with a senseless insult and stereotype. At least I don’t need to insult others to show that my profession is, if nothing else, decent.

Thief|Mesmer|
Theorycrafter