Guild Wars 2

Quickness
Quickness is simply too powerful. While its somewhat okay in 1vs1 situations it utterly ruins 2vs1. A 2vs1 is an uphill battle, like it should be, but with quickness a 2vs1 is simply impossible. Once a guy with quickness joins a 1vs1 its basically over. Since one probably has used up stunbreakers and other “oh kitten!” buttons already the Quickness attack will hit and kill you. And thats only the most pressing issue of Quickness, there is Quickness stomping, Quickness healing… It has to be changed like yesterday
Suggestion: Change Quickness to +50% attack speed and remove side effects. Also remove Quickness on chance.

Imbalanced downed states
The downed#2 has to be equally powerful for all classes. While its fine to have them being a little different accross professions, its not fine that some downed#2 will prolong your life garuanteed while others might help you against a single guy.

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Form – garuanteed to prolong your life. Invulnerable to damage and heals you back to 50% downed health. The best downed#2
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deception_%28mesmer%29 – second best downed#2. Will buy you a couple of seconds and some are still too stupid to stomp you instead of your clone, despite you having an extra symbol over your head. Can’t be countered but at least one can still be damaged by conditions and attacking thin air at the right spot.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Escape – Third best downed#2. Safes you against a stomp from limitless players. However you are still prone to attacks and debuffs.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap – A very balanced downed#2. Can be countered by blindness, blocking and stability. Might buy you some time but is still counterable. This it what downed#2 should be like.
• The downed#2 of warrior, engineer and necromancer are equally crappy http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear_%28necromancer_skill%29, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Toss, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grappling_Line . One shouldn’t even bother trying to do something while downed against more than one guy, won’t help you much. While Warriors and Engineers at least have a strong downed#3 Necromancers have it the worst and are basically dead after they used their downed#2.

Suggestion : Change all downed#2 to PBAoE stuns/dazes/knockdowns, whatever fits the profession best. Downed#3 should also be about prolonging your life and never about damage.

Access to abilities that allow you to safestomp is uneven accross Professions
While some classes have abilities that allow them to “safestomp” enemies on their Profession mechanic, on one of their weapoins and several choices to “safestomp” for their utility slots (Guardian, Ranger) other Professions can’t even slot a utility skill that would allow them to stomp and need 30 traitpoints in soul reaping to do so (Necromancer). Some Professions even can stomp invulnerable (Elementalist, Mesmer) or invisible (Thief, Mesmer). Its too much imbalance to simply list it here but
that needs to be dealt with in near future.
Suggestion Every class should have one weapon set with an ability that allows safestomping, a utility skill that allows safestomping and stomping while invisible or invulnerable should be impossible.

I’ve said it before and ill say now, quickness needs to be nerfed or removed altogether from the game because 100% increase in dps is just crazy they should make it like 50% increase in speed with a lot of risk and not 100% with little or no risk at all.

I agree that Quickness stomp is way too strong. Especially Rangers with on-demand Quickness on pet swap are god stompers. That probably makes up for being the most underpowered class in the game currently.
I disagree with Deception being the second best. In fact it’s easily countered by interupting the stomp yourself and recast it. Since it has a cast time the Mesmer most likely will use it once you begin to cast the stomp. Since you start casting your stomp again while the Memsmer is casting his downed#2 he will pop up before you finished your cast. In like 80% of the cases he will appear close enough to let the stomp work.

Necro downed#3 is bad I agree. This #2 is strong but can be countered with shadow steps which some classes have access to.
I personally find Guardian skill set way too strong. Guardians are hard to down in the first place. In downed state they get a massive knockback (can be countered with blind/block/stability I know), they got perma retaliation, downed#3 is an AoE heal which heals allies and himself and even #1 is a channeled skill that follows the enemy’s movement. Very strong compared to other classes.

The quickness might make some sense but the rest 2 points of your post can be summarized like this – “Give all classes the same abilities and remove anything that seperates one class from another. Make all classes BORING because that it totally what this game needs.”

“Remove stealth from a class that relies on it for survival due to lack of armor and health.” – A thief in downed state gains stealth for a very short period of time. Not that hard to follow. As for stealth stomp, well stealth is a core mechanic of that class and unless you remove it, there aren’t that many ways to deal with it. If you do look around this forum, there are many threads that try to deal with the stealth issue. No point saying the same thing over and over.

“Remove downed state clones/illusions from a class that is completely based around that concept.” – It buys around 2 seconds tops and anyone stupid enough to stomp the clone has simply not played enough spvp or does not know anything about the class he is playing against. Moreover as the above poster mentioned, the cast time almost makes it completely predictable. Start stomping, press escape when mesmer uses #2, wait for him to show up and then proceed stomping.

“Remove a unique and a pretty easy to follow ability(mistform) from eles.” – For god’s sake, you can see exactly where the ele is going in mistform. How is that hard to follow?

All the above “OP” abilities are almost expected when you stomp them. Just plan for them and you’ll be fine.

It’s funny because after eles whined for months about their downed state, their downed was finally buffed to something reasonable, now you’re saying necro has it bad. Ele still has the lowest hp and the lowest armor. If you can’t stomp on someone, you interrupt the reviver, and continue dpsing. If there are multiple revivers, why isn’t your team working together? Theirs is.

Balance doesn’t have to mean all classes are the same :P

dreamer.1675:

The quickness might make some sense but the rest 2 points of your post can be summarized like this – “Give all classes the same abilities and remove anything that seperates one class from another. Make all classes BORING because that it totally what this game needs.”

“Remove stealth from a class that relies on it for survival due to lack of armor and health.” – A thief in downed state gains stealth for a very short period of time. Not that hard to follow. As for stealth stomp, well stealth is a core mechanic of that class and unless you remove it, there aren’t that many ways to deal with it. If you do look around this forum, there are many threads that try to deal with the stealth issue. No point saying the same thing over and over.

“Remove downed state clones/illusions from a class that is completely based around that concept.” – It buys around 2 seconds tops and anyone stupid enough to stomp the clone has simply not played enough spvp or does not know anything about the class he is playing against. Moreover as the above poster mentioned, the cast time almost makes it completely predictable. Start stomping, press escape when mesmer uses #2, wait for him to show up and then proceed stomping.

“Remove a unique and a pretty easy to follow ability(mistform) from eles.” – For god’s sake, you can see exactly where the ele is going in mistform. How is that hard to follow?

All the above “OP” abilities are almost expected when you stomp them. Just plan for them and you’ll be fine.

Thats a lot of fantasy you put into what I wrote. Maybe you should consider reading it again. I didn’t state anywhere that classes should be the same or even similar for that matter. However the power of downed states has to be similar, anything else is bad for the game or simply put imbalanced.
Never did I say stealth should be removed, never. Stealth stomping however, is almost uncounterable and bad for the game, very bad. If you’re actually too simple to see that… well… I’m sorry for you then!

I think that when GW2 is ready for another game mode besides point capture, then yes, these are the exact issues that will have to be dealt with. In a 3v3 deathmatch, for example, the stronger, movement-based downed state abilities would be ridiculously overpowered. As it is, they are extremely annoying but the point control meta somewhat evens the playing field (i.e. it may take an extra 10 seconds to finish off that thief, but at least he’s not contesting your point and he’s roaming solo so he’s not getting rezzed.)

Same goes with finishing moves balance.

Same goes with quickness—at least with the point control meta, it’s okay if there’s a coordinated quickness/stability pop and they burst down two players in a second each. That’s okay, their quickness is gone, your bunkers hold on, your roamers respawn and take their back point. In a deathmatch, if two of your three players go down within 2-3 seconds of the fight opening, you’re in trouble.

Malicious.6742:

I agree that Quickness stomp is way too strong. Especially Rangers with on-demand Quickness on pet swap are god stompers. That probably makes up for being the most underpowered class in the game currently.

Lol, what a joke. Quickness stomping makes up for all the shortcomings of our class? Lol! Just lol!

Fiesbert.9816:

Quickness
Quickness is simply too powerful. While its somewhat okay in 1vs1 situations it utterly ruins 2vs1. A 2vs1 is an uphill battle, like it should be, but with quickness a 2vs1 is simply impossible. Once a guy with quickness joins a 1vs1 its basically over. Since one probably has used up stunbreakers and other “oh kitten!” buttons already the Quickness attack will hit and kill you. And thats only the most pressing issue of Quickness, there is Quickness stomping, Quickness healing… It has to be changed like yesterday
Suggestion: Change Quickness to +50% attack speed and remove side effects. Also remove Quickness on chance.

How is that logical in any way? You imply that quickness is okay in a 1×1 situation but OP in a 2×1. Well, as far as I know, in a 2×1 all the odds are against you,with or without quickness. Quickness if fine (execpt in Time Warp duration, that needs a revision).

Fiesbert.9816:

Access to abilities that allow you to safestomp is uneven accross Professions
While some classes have abilities that allow them to “safestomp” enemies on their Profession mechanic, on one of their weapoins and several choices to “safestomp” for their utility slots (Guardian, Ranger) other Professions can’t even slot a utility skill that would allow them to stomp and need 30 traitpoints in soul reaping to do so (Necromancer). Some Professions even can stomp invulnerable (Elementalist, Mesmer) or invisible (Thief, Mesmer). Its too much imbalance to simply list it here but
that needs to be dealt with in near future.
Suggestion Every class should have one weapon set with an ability that allows safestomping, a utility skill that allows safestomping and stomping while invisible or invulnerable should be impossible.

In that case, it’s easier to removed downed state from PVP (and no, invi/stability/invunerability stomp is not OP. If you are down, you will probably die, regardless).

Fiesbert.9816:

Imbalanced downed states
The downed#2 has to be equally powerful for all classes. While its fine to have them being a little different accross professions, its not fine that some downed#2 will prolong your life garuanteed while others might help you against a single guy.

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Form – garuanteed to prolong your life. Invulnerable to damage and heals you back to 50% downed health. The best downed#2
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deception_%28mesmer%29 – second best downed#2. Will buy you a couple of seconds and some are still too stupid to stomp you instead of your clone, despite you having an extra symbol over your head. Can’t be countered but at least one can still be damaged by conditions and attacking thin air at the right spot.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Escape – Third best downed#2. Safes you against a stomp from limitless players. However you are still prone to attacks and debuffs.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap – A very balanced downed#2. Can be countered by blindness, blocking and stability. Might buy you some time but is still counterable. This it what downed#2 should be like.
• The downed#2 of warrior, engineer and necromancer are equally crappy http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear_%28necromancer_skill%29, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Toss, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grappling_Line . One shouldn’t even bother trying to do something while downed against more than one guy, won’t help you much. While Warriors and Engineers at least have a strong downed#3 Necromancers have it the worst and are basically dead after they used their downed#2.

Suggestion : Change all downed#2 to PBAoE stuns/dazes/knockdowns, whatever fits the profession best. Downed#3 should also be about prolonging your life and never about damage.

I’ve pointed this out before, and I’ll point it out again. You’re looking at downed states in an entirely selfish fashion. This isn’t Rambo, the MMO – it is a team based game. While Ele, Thief and Mes Downstate 2’s are powerful, they only achieve stomp avoidance for the player using them. There is no way their ability can be used for anything else. Ranger, Necro, Engi, Guard and War Downstate 2’s can be used to interrupt a stomp, interrupt a revival, or interrupt a stomp on a teammate.

It could be that the downstate 2’s are still slightly imbalanced (Ele HP reset after mist form seems a bit silly, but not enough for me to complain about it), but their different strengths and weaknesses are constantly ignored in “Normalize Downstate” posts because people tend to only think of themselves.

While I agree that possibly the elementalists downed state may be a little over the top in certain situations, I can’t say that I see it as the most powerful downed ability. All the different professions have their own perks within the downed state.
Now I’m not saying that it’s balanced, yet to blatantly say that one is better than all the rest is incorrect.

evilapprentice.6379:

Fiesbert.9816:

Imbalanced downed states
The downed#2 has to be equally powerful for all classes. While its fine to have them being a little different accross professions, its not fine that some downed#2 will prolong your life garuanteed while others might help you against a single guy.

• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vapor_Form – garuanteed to prolong your life. Invulnerable to damage and heals you back to 50% downed health. The best downed#2
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deception_%28mesmer%29 – second best downed#2. Will buy you a couple of seconds and some are still too stupid to stomp you instead of your clone, despite you having an extra symbol over your head. Can’t be countered but at least one can still be damaged by conditions and attacking thin air at the right spot.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Escape – Third best downed#2. Safes you against a stomp from limitless players. However you are still prone to attacks and debuffs.
• http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thunderclap – A very balanced downed#2. Can be countered by blindness, blocking and stability. Might buy you some time but is still counterable. This it what downed#2 should be like.
• The downed#2 of warrior, engineer and necromancer are equally crappy http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear_%28necromancer_skill%29, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Toss, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grappling_Line . One shouldn’t even bother trying to do something while downed against more than one guy, won’t help you much. While Warriors and Engineers at least have a strong downed#3 Necromancers have it the worst and are basically dead after they used their downed#2.

Suggestion : Change all downed#2 to PBAoE stuns/dazes/knockdowns, whatever fits the profession best. Downed#3 should also be about prolonging your life and never about damage.

I’ve pointed this out before, and I’ll point it out again. You’re looking at downed states in an entirely selfish fashion. This isn’t Rambo, the MMO – it is a team based game. While Ele, Thief and Mes Downstate 2’s are powerful, they only achieve stomp avoidance for the player using them. There is no way their ability can be used for anything else. Ranger, Necro, Engi, Guard and War Downstate 2’s can be used to interrupt a stomp, interrupt a revival, or interrupt a stomp on a teammate.

It could be that the downstate 2’s are still slightly imbalanced (Ele HP reset after mist form seems a bit silly, but not enough for me to complain about it), but their different strengths and weaknesses are constantly ignored in “Normalize Downstate” posts because people tend to only think of themselves.

Rambo the MMO?! How did you come up with that?
Its imbalanced, as simple as that. Downed state is a core element of combat its very bad for the gameplay for it to be imbalanced. Downed power has to be somewhat equal, currently it isn’t. I wouldn’t mind more complex and interesting downed states. However it should be the priority to balance its current state before thinking about redesigning it.

@OP

Add Kylho and how much of a joke it is in tPvP.

I do not think these are TOP3.

Actually top 3 issues for sPVP for me

1) missing matchmaking
2) missing matchmaking
3) missing matchmaking

… long time nothing

4) any other issues

But anywy i must admid you made a good summary of downed state and how unbalanced it is.
Also you should mention that some clasess are able to kill you in downed mode faster. Like a warrior or Thief hitting you for big ammount, mesmer with his Rogue ilusion etc. Sometimes in close 1v1 or even 2v1 you can´t finish your opponent due to that. In fact i can live with it if its 2v1 but in 1v1 situation.. if i downed my opponent and im low health.. i shouldnt be forced to hide myself till i have my healskill on CD again. So many close fights i have lost just because i downed my opponent first.. a then he used 3 times autoattack (3-4k HP down.. ).

Schwahrheit.4203:

@OP

Add Kylho and how much of a joke it is in tPvP.

Actually I like Kyhlo. The Trebuchet adds a nice twist to the map. MesmerPortalRepair is an issue though.
However I like the concept of vehicles anyway, my favourite shooter franchise is Battlefield, while the vehicles make a player more powerful than a regular soldier, they are also limited and add another layer of gameplay. I consider the trebuchets the same, they add a metagame to the map.

Equalizing the #2s would be one of the most boring things they can do.
If this were to happen, then please absolutely sPvP exclusive. The flavour is quite strong in the Downed states, and I’d rather see them tweaked and shifted than be homogenized.

Carighan.6758:

Equalizing the #2s would be one of the most boring things they can do.
If this were to happen, then please absolutely sPvP exclusive. The flavour is quite strong in the Downed states, and I’d rather see them tweaked and shifted than be homogenized.

They don’t have to be the same but downed states have to become more similar in power. The current situation is unbearable.
Homogenizing downed abilities would be the simplest way to address the issue.
When did homogenization become the devil anyway?! Shooters are fine and as homogenized as they come…

Still the Top 3 issues of PvP

Fiesbert.9816:

Still the Top 3 issues of PvP

it want change this year to be honest..

Biggest issue is the tournament setup imo. Needs to be scrapped completely and made into a ranked queue match setup instead. Waiting for 8 teams is kitten And we need a easy to access ranking system to keep people interested/having a goal. Follow the LoL model. Hotjoin = normals, Ranked solo = ranked solo, Paid teams = ranked teams.

on topic:
i agree with quickness but everything else what you say is just silly… yes, some skills are better then others, but it is VERY SITUATIONAL… and safestomps? hmm, from what you say, i see problem only on Necro, thats not a big imbalance, just Necro being underpowered in that way, oh wait, he have that well which gives blind in aoe over time, it can be sometimes very good to stomp more ppl at once in team fight then other abilities

I thought rangers were one of the least played classes in sPvP yet they have best quickness non-elite skill……