Guild Wars 2

I highly doubt the culling issue can be fixed easily since it’s more like a game engine problem. Therefore, skill/trait change sounds more doable to fix the unbalanced situation right now especially in wvw.
Main complain comes from thief’s benefit/risk ratio which caused by stealth.
How about this way:
1, nerf all thief’s skills damage (e.g. 50%);
2, change trait skills and increase trait bonus (e.g. 200% if you max it to balance the skill damage nerf).
So if a thief want to get the deadly power to burst someone down quickly, then he has to go for high damage trait, but consequently he won’t get out of battle easily. It’s more like an assasin-like build — you die or I die.
And if thief want to get out of battle easily, then he shouldn’t have enough damage to take someone down. So it makes thief-like build — I come and go when ever I want, but what I do is just annoying you but not killing you.

Should fix it so they cant go just invisible if you are attacking them

1) Okay, but increase our conditions by 100% to compensate. We Condition Thieves would love to bleed you folks out faster.

2) I wouldn’t mind this. Make us faster, give us more might, increase stealth time, let us heal faster, caltrops on dodge == real caltrops and not one-hit wonders, poisons do more damage…

Have you ever fought a condition thief before? They eat glass cannons for breakfast.

I say — they can go invisible when u atk them, but not with deadly power at the same time.
So nerf the base skill damage but increase trait bonus to balance it(so thief can’t get both deadly power and escape ability at same time). That’s the point.

Should fix it so they cant go just invisible if you are attacking them

My issue with thieves is:
High damage
Mobility
Stealth

Somethings gotta go, because they’re really annoying to fight.

Of coz condition can be increased, but any damage oriented will be focused on certain trait only, to get high condition, you need to sacrifice mobility/escape skills.
P/D thief is replacing GC BS thief more and more in wvw, yes they kill slower , but they will get the job done in a even safer way. There is basically no counter against P/D thief in wvw now. For bunker class, u can just ignore and run away, but for some squishy classes, they have nothing to do but die.

Suralin.3947:

1) Okay, but increase our conditions by 100% to compensate. We Condition Thieves would love to bleed you folks out faster.

2) I wouldn’t mind this. Make us faster, give us more might, increase stealth time, let us heal faster, caltrops on dodge == real caltrops and not one-hit wonders, poisons do more damage…

Have you ever fought a condition thief before? They eat glass cannons for breakfast.

Fix rendering, then if thieves still stroll through PvP without a care in the world, then think about what needs to be nerfed and whatnot.

I’m sure they do need tweeks even if rendering is fixed but currently with the rendering issue its hard to say.

The biggest issue I have with them right now is they have complete control of any fight, the being able to just end combat and run away anytime the fight is not going their way is rediculous.

Multiple vanishes coupled with speed boosts to run away anytime something is not going completely in their favor is just poor design. Hitting hard and fast then escaping is one thing, hitting hard and fast and continue to hit hard and fast without a worry of danger because if all else fail they can just run away is utter BS.

This class is the most difficult to discuss when it comes to fixes. The reason? Thieves are annoying. I think that is what generates a lot of the hate towards the class. Let’s look at a thief in each scenario:

1. sPVP- They prey on those with no stun-breakers or low health
2. WvW- Usually ranged attacks unless they find someone who isn’t paying attention. Thieves die quickly.
3. Dungeons- I hate when a thief is on my dungeon team. They are virtually always the class that spends the most time in the down state

Like I said earlier, thieves are annoying. That said, if I am playing on my warrior, thieves are my first target because they die the fastest. Also, no thief will ever beat me 1 on 1 if I see them coming. They definitely need the stealth.

Overall, I’d say the thief is an average class and needs buffs in some areas. If I had to make some changes to the class, I’d suggest the following:

1. Reduce the damage on backstab by 10%
2. Increase the damage on cloak & dagger back to what it was before the last nerf
3. Decrease the initiative required for dancing dagger by 1
4. Reduce the amount of endurance needed to dodge
5. Change the sound for heartseeker and death blossom. It is annoying.

There only needs to be one fix to thieves that is fair:

1. Place a ten second cool down on ALL stealth abilities.

Right now they can go stealth three times in a row using different skills. They need to change this so the stealth portion of those skills cannot be active if they were just stealth. As of now a thief can pretty much stay stealth all the time during battles.

Fix perma stealth exploits. Simple

Maybe make it that when a Thief gets damage, it actually breaks stealth?

I have a thief. I’m nowhere near as good as some of the ones I see.

I will say, I am surprised that we can stealth while in combat. I’d be fine if we lost that ability. Or put combat stealthing on a cooldown. Once every 5 or 10 mins.

The repeated stealthing in combat over and over is bizarre to me, though.

FireRunner – 10s cooldown? Alright! Give us a 10s buff on stealth. Let’s balance it out.

Columba – Perma stealth exploits? You mean the one where we have to keep using CnD or chain our skills without attack or we have a 4s revealed debuff? Perma stealth takes a lot of dodging on our part. I prefer running to a zerg myself and just dropping caltrops with CnD.

Aveneo – Which makes any thief useless since glass cannons will just use stealth to get that backstab on the first run and all other thieves will die rather quickly because of our already low vit and toughness.

How about some real balancing suggestions rather than nefts, eh? Has anyone tried to play a thief without stealth at all? I’d love to see how you managed that in PvP.

I’ll take the 10 second CD on stealth but I’ll need something in return.

1. When a thief stealths….its Perma until you attack
2. All alpha stealth strikes receive damage boost of 50%

I’ll take it.

Give pets the ability to attack stealthers.

I think this sounds pretty reasonable.
for 1, perma stealth is too much, I would say 10 sec stealth is enough, 10 sec is absolutely enough for you to decide what to do next (start fight or escape).
for 2, 50% damage boost is reasonable, make thief assassin-like, coz if the primary atk failed, thief can hardly last 10 sec w/o stealth. (this can also solve thief 1vn problem – yes you have the power to get 1 down, but u will be killed by other next in return, which is much more balanced. )
This will make thief’s play style more tactical .

Jinks.2057:

I’ll take the 10 second CD on stealth but I’ll need something in return.

1. When a thief stealths….its Perma until you attack
2. All alpha stealth strikes receive damage boost of 50%

I’ll take it.

I just wish the nameplate showed up at the same time as the character.

Columba.9730:

Fix perma stealth exploits. Simple

This ^^ x 1000

Thieves SHOULD have stealth, but to be able to slip into a tower or keep and stay there permanently stealthed needs to be seriously addressed, just like their usual partners in crime (mesmers) shouldn’t be able to switch armour pces/ guild tag in order to circumvent the auto kick on wvw maps so they can lie dead for 30-40 minutes while a perma stealthed thief revives them a tiny bit at a time …. but that is for a separate topic so I’ll leave that.

IMO damage taken whilst stealthed should knock you out of stealth. If a thief has a DoT on them a single tick should knock them out of stealth too)

Ozoug.4158:

My issue with thieves is:
High damage
Mobility
Stealth

Somethings gotta go, because they’re really annoying to fight.

There’s got to be more give and take, if they want stealth then they have low damage.

morrolan.9608:

Ozoug.4158:

My issue with thieves is:
High damage
Mobility
Stealth

Somethings gotta go, because they’re really annoying to fight.

There’s got to be more give and take, if they want stealth then they have low damage.

As much as I dislike thieves in wvw, if you took away their stealth they would be worth less than a ranger trying to hit a moving target with a bow. The class makes sacrifices in survivability in exchange for high dps, the only thing they have to offset that is stealth.
Having said that stealth has big issues with it, and its not just the culling that causes them. Surprising you out of stealth and hitting you with burst damage I am fine with, the ability to re-stealth and run away if that burst doesn’t kill you and keep coming back to try again is more of a problem, along with the perma stealth issues.

Just erase backstab bonus from thief and nerf thief’s crits.
That’s all…
That way they will need to get out of stealth more.

I love hearing about how thieves need to be nerfed and changed when there is really nothing wrong with them. I main a Necro, and I come across 1v1 scenarios with thieves from time to time. There are three types of scenarios that I typically see play out.
1. I get hit off guard by a glass cannon, and I’m down and dead in a matter of seconds.
2 and 3. I see the thief before the attack initiation and I am prepared for combat. The thief either ends up downed or running away with little to no health remaining, whether perma-stealth built or not.

The classes are well balanced and don’t need changes. The culling is an issue that needs to be addressed, but that will help everyone out. Learning to play your class better and or staying in a group will help you counter glass cannons any day as they sacrifice HP for DPS.

split.3659:

I love hearing about how thieves need to be nerfed and changed when there is really nothing wrong with them. I main a Necro, and I come across 1v1 scenarios with thieves from time to time. There are three types of scenarios that I typically see play out.
1. I get hit off guard by a glass cannon, and I’m down and dead in a matter of seconds.
2 and 3. I see the thief before the attack initiation and I am prepared for combat. The thief either ends up downed or running away with little to no health remaining, whether perma-stealth built or not.

The classes are well balanced and don’t need changes. The culling is an issue that needs to be addressed, but that will help everyone out. Learning to play your class better and or staying in a group will help you counter glass cannons any day as they sacrifice HP for DPS.

It seems like you didn’t get the problem with thief. Just read all thread again pls…

Avalon.4809:

split.3659:

I love hearing about how thieves need to be nerfed and changed when there is really nothing wrong with them. I main a Necro, and I come across 1v1 scenarios with thieves from time to time. There are three types of scenarios that I typically see play out.
1. I get hit off guard by a glass cannon, and I’m down and dead in a matter of seconds.
2 and 3. I see the thief before the attack initiation and I am prepared for combat. The thief either ends up downed or running away with little to no health remaining, whether perma-stealth built or not.

The classes are well balanced and don’t need changes. The culling is an issue that needs to be addressed, but that will help everyone out. Learning to play your class better and or staying in a group will help you counter glass cannons any day as they sacrifice HP for DPS.

It seems like you didn’t get the problem with thief. Just read all thread again pls…

it seems like you dont get why only a select few cough casuals cough have a problem with thieves. these same rogue QQ threads pop up in every MMO and it’s sad players refuse to learn how to counter a stealther.

stun, snare, root and kite them

the only issue with thieves right now is the culling bug

Change the invisibility. This is how I see it working better. Invis out of combat (5sec global cd). Any attack from behind will have 100 percent damage bonus on initial attack ability with 30 percent damage bonus for the next 3 seconds. There will be only one stealth ability in combat. This will be on a 60s cd. All movement bonuses apply.

FourTwenty.4268:

Avalon.4809:

split.3659:

I love hearing about how thieves need to be nerfed and changed when there is really nothing wrong with them. I main a Necro, and I come across 1v1 scenarios with thieves from time to time. There are three types of scenarios that I typically see play out.
1. I get hit off guard by a glass cannon, and I’m down and dead in a matter of seconds.
2 and 3. I see the thief before the attack initiation and I am prepared for combat. The thief either ends up downed or running away with little to no health remaining, whether perma-stealth built or not.

The classes are well balanced and don’t need changes. The culling is an issue that needs to be addressed, but that will help everyone out. Learning to play your class better and or staying in a group will help you counter glass cannons any day as they sacrifice HP for DPS.

It seems like you didn’t get the problem with thief. Just read all thread again pls…

it seems like you dont get why only a select few cough casuals cough have a problem with thieves. these same rogue QQ threads pop up in every MMO and it’s sad players refuse to learn how to counter a stealther.

stun, snare, root and kite them

the only issue with thieves right now is the culling bug

Culling is the thing I’m already talking about…

Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with thieves. The issue is people not knowing how to counter them. Someone gets rofl-stomped by a thief, and all of a sudden the class is OP. FYI, AOE hits stealthed thieves whether they are culled or not. The OP called for a nerf on Thieves, and that just makes me laugh. I guess the difference between me and the complainers is that I expect to find the thieves in a downed state when they reappear. That, or they are crippled and hobbling with a sliver of health remaining.

Honestly the worst part imo is their ability to escape which negates any consequence for their actions.

Invisible for 99% of any fight (annoying as hell but not their fault)
Extremely high damage output (difficult to deal with but its what they do)
Very mobile (also difficult to deal with but doable)
Being able to sprint away without a care in the world when their outplayed/skilled (pure BS)

I have a thief and I agree that stealth needs to be changed. No other class can run around the map without fear of being killed. Yes there are ways to counter stealth like looking for smoke fields and stun + burst damage but these only ever applicable when the thief is attacking you or some other objective. A good thief can always pick a fight on their own conditions, something which no other class can do. It’s like playing Dota 2 against Rikimaru but you can’t buy wards or a gem.

Nuzt.7894:

Honestly the worst part imo is their ability to escape which negates any consequence for their actions.

Invisible for 99% of any fight (annoying as hell but not their fault)
Extremely high damage output (difficult to deal with but its what they do)
Very mobile (also difficult to deal with but doable)
Being able to sprint away without a care in the world when their outplayed/skilled (pure BS)

This captures it well. I’ve never seen another game where stealthers can remain stealthed while being attacked or attacking others. It’s a terrible design choice.

Best to post in this thread, Arenanet is actively looking for feedback on the thief since the last major new build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/page/19#post959057

When rendering issues are fixed, Thieves will be fixed.

HeeHee.5208:

Best to post in this thread, Arenanet is actively looking for feedback on the thief since the last major new build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/page/19#post959057

Unfortunately, the thieves are drowning out any complaints with the L2P mantra.

The dmg output is very high in this game. the healing power, vit (hp) and toughness (armor) are just next to useless. Maybe they should buff that or nerf all the other
classes DPS by 50% as well and remove their class advantages too like remove illusions+shattering, long range+pets, heavy armors+op stats. lol so funny crying about thieves when there are only 2 classes out there that doesn’t deserve nerf Necro and engineer.

CRrabbit.1284:

I highly doubt the culling issue can be fixed easily since it’s more like a game engine problem. Therefore, skill/trait change sounds more doable to fix the unbalanced situation right now especially in wvw.
Main complain comes from thief’s benefit/risk ratio which caused by stealth.
How about this way:
1, nerf all thief’s skills damage (e.g. 50%);
2, change trait skills and increase trait bonus (e.g. 200% if you max it to balance the skill damage nerf).
So if a thief want to get the deadly power to burst someone down quickly, then he has to go for high damage trait, but consequently he won’t get out of battle easily. It’s more like an assasin-like build — you die or I die.
And if thief want to get out of battle easily, then he shouldn’t have enough damage to take someone down. So it makes thief-like build — I come and go when ever I want, but what I do is just annoying you but not killing you.

You just broke PVE, but whatever – I’ll bite, sure lets do it. But I’ll also want warriors HP pool, heavy armor and a couple of defensive cooldowns in to the bargain because I no longer have ways to avoid the fight or mitigate damage and we have the lowest HP in the game.

Then it seems only fair to throw in some more weapon options (dual wield swords and something that hits at 1200 range for a start) and fix pistols.

Finally to round out the class I’d like to be able to choose from new skills that can, say, create clones, drop wells, summon pets, blink etc. And something brand new too.

And THEN… I want to drink everyones tears when all the QQ merchants are still coming on here to complain about thieves whatever happens to them:)

Main problem I have with thieves are that they can finish while stealthed. As a warrior the most I can do is interupt you ONCE. If you give me enough time to get back up you are doing it wrong, but good grief you dont have to stealth to get the kill. If I had an escape abillity while downed you would still miss the finish, so why bother? Grumble grumble.

Other than that, burst thieves and glass cannons typically just splat against me and melt unless they actually have skill in what they are doing.

FourTwenty.4268:

Avalon.4809:

split.3659:

I love hearing about how thieves need to be nerfed and changed when there is really nothing wrong with them. I main a Necro, and I come across 1v1 scenarios with thieves from time to time. There are three types of scenarios that I typically see play out.
1. I get hit off guard by a glass cannon, and I’m down and dead in a matter of seconds.
2 and 3. I see the thief before the attack initiation and I am prepared for combat. The thief either ends up downed or running away with little to no health remaining, whether perma-stealth built or not.

The classes are well balanced and don’t need changes. The culling is an issue that needs to be addressed, but that will help everyone out. Learning to play your class better and or staying in a group will help you counter glass cannons any day as they sacrifice HP for DPS.

It seems like you didn’t get the problem with thief. Just read all thread again pls…

it seems like you dont get why only a select few cough casuals cough have a problem with thieves. these same rogue QQ threads pop up in every MMO and it’s sad players refuse to learn how to counter a stealther.

stun, snare, root and kite them

the only issue with thieves right now is the culling bug

This is just straight up denying a problem. They are currently a LITTLE too unbalanced compared to every other class, maybe save DD eles. I lock them in place a lot to keep them where I want them, and swing around like a mad man when they stealth and watch for chains. It typically works out for me and I havent had a big problem other than what I have already posted about personally, but the idea that they can do the damage they do and be able to take the amount of beating they can makes it a little off to me.

Also sorry if this double posts

ViRuE.3612:

CRrabbit.1284:

I highly doubt the culling issue can be fixed easily since it’s more like a game engine problem. Therefore, skill/trait change sounds more doable to fix the unbalanced situation right now especially in wvw.
Main complain comes from thief’s benefit/risk ratio which caused by stealth.
How about this way:
1, nerf all thief’s skills damage (e.g. 50%);
2, change trait skills and increase trait bonus (e.g. 200% if you max it to balance the skill damage nerf).
So if a thief want to get the deadly power to burst someone down quickly, then he has to go for high damage trait, but consequently he won’t get out of battle easily. It’s more like an assasin-like build — you die or I die.
And if thief want to get out of battle easily, then he shouldn’t have enough damage to take someone down. So it makes thief-like build — I come and go when ever I want, but what I do is just annoying you but not killing you.

You just broke PVE, but whatever – I’ll bite, sure lets do it. But I’ll also want warriors HP pool, heavy armor and a couple of defensive cooldowns in to the bargain because I no longer have ways to avoid the fight or mitigate damage and we have the lowest HP in the game.

Then it seems only fair to throw in some more weapon options (dual wield swords and something that hits at 1200 range for a start) and fix pistols.

Finally to round out the class I’d like to be able to choose from new skills that can, say, create clones, drop wells, summon pets, blink etc. And something brand new too.

And THEN… I want to drink everyones tears when all the QQ merchants are still coming on here to complain about thieves whatever happens to them:)

Funny, under most circumstances, this post would be kind of cute I suppose, but not this time. Honestly, look around…there are SO many posts about Thieves in WvW/sPvP, it seems kind of ignorant to simply label it QQ. The amount of mobility (best in the game), survivability (give me an example of another classes survivability that rivals or bests the ability TO NOT BE SEEN), and damage output (among the best burst in the game), is simply too much to be rolled up in to one class. For those defending all of this, honestly, you really should try and look at this from an objective point of view. Mesmers have been ‘adjusted’, and so will Thieves, no two ways about it. Please, Thief players, stop being so obtuse and own up to some of this.

crewthief.8649:

Mesmers have been ‘adjusted’, and so will Thieves, no two ways about it. Please, Thief players, stop being so obtuse and own up to some of this.

The problem is that these posts are not engaging and honest discussions of the class. They are generally uninformed drivel with little basis on reality, filled with suggestions that have no interest in a playable class as the outcome. You expect an honest discussion while throwing a mountain of trash on the forums to talk around. Surprise, you get trash posts in response.

I see little value in posting intelligent, well thought out views on what should be fixed with the thief class, both good and bad, when it is generally just a witch hunt.

Hitting a full toughness character in pvp for 12.5k+ is what has to go. And, of course, culling. I would say 8k (from all classes) max hit against any class in full toughness would be reasonable.

Highest dps, permastealth, best mobility, decent ranged dng. What’s balanced about this? Thieves are in abject denial of god mode.

Columba.9730:

Highest dps, permastealth, best mobility, decent ranged dng. What’s balanced about this? Thieves are in abject denial of god mode.

What needs fixing is peoples perception on thiefs

Highest DPS, Stealth and mobility. So thats a 30/30/30/30/30 build your talking about then. When can I spec like this? Because im limited.

And the OP is a warrior. Warriors, full glass cannon, invunrability and 20khp and massive leaps and good duration blocks, 6sec cooldowns. Yea ok. I rolled a warrior and laughed at the power compared to a thief

People need to learn to make proper pvp builds if they want to pvp and win

Webley.1295:

Columba.9730:

Highest dps, permastealth, best mobility, decent ranged dng. What’s balanced about this? Thieves are in abject denial of god mode.

What needs fixing is peoples perception on thiefs

Highest DPS, Stealth and mobility. So thats a 30/30/30/30/30 build your talking about then. When can I spec like this? Because im limited.

And the OP is a warrior. Warriors, full glass cannon, invunrability and 20khp and massive leaps and good duration blocks, 6sec cooldowns. Yea ok. I rolled a warrior and laughed at the power compared to a thief

People need to learn to make proper pvp builds if they want to pvp and win

The difference is you can see a warrior coming, and if he starts losing mid fight, he doesn’t have the option to disappear and reappear 10 seconds later for another attempt. Likewise if he runs away you can see him do it.

Thieves ARE OP in their current state, but until the culling issue is addressed no-one can look subjectively at thieves to see if something needs toning down.

people cant count to 4 and dodge/blind/immobilise/block/teleport/leap/trap/fear/daze/stun when the next perma-chained “cloak and dagger” is due. Thats what tops up stealth

its clear that when culling is fixed they will still complain

culling was fixed in spvp. if you cant kill a thief there you cant in WvW

simple

I seriously hope anet does not listen to all these trash ideas. TPvP is the top of the game. They only make changes based on what “GOOD” players are doing

I cant wait till the bads leave GW2 and leave us all alone to have good fights

Below is a more realistic fix for thieves. But before we get to that. Folks lets remember that your seeing different types of thief builds..stop lumping them all together as if they are one type of thief. Also, Anet has openly stated that the thief is the class that “gets away”. They intentionally made it that way so get used to it. The problem with thieves are a mixture of the glass cannon backstab builds with culling and cloak and dagger. Now here’s the copy of my post from the thieves thread:

“Seriously all the changes that are needed for a thief without massive overcorrection is to A) fix cloak and dagger so it can’t be chained with steal. Longer cooldown on C&D (the source of the false claims of perma stealth thieves..there is no such thing as ‘perma’ stealth) and C) A short cooldown on backstab (like 1s). See how that goes first. Glass cannon thieves would still kill fast..but at least it would give folks time to react.

Rest of it is definitely a L2P issue. If your running into thieves consistently in WvW maybe you should be using that 20% dmg trait that just screams “thief protection”. And perhaps you should drop one of your ‘l33t’ utilities to carry a pull/knockdown/knockback etc. Or hey if your running into thieves consistently maybe you shouldn’t be running glass cannon “drop at the sound of a fart” builds. The smart players can handle theives because they use those as soon as a thief stealths. It amazes me how folks still can’t even TRY to aoe a shadow refuge despite the fact it has a big ole graphic and you should know thieves have to stay in it for 4 seconds or are immediately revealed."

So any idea how to fix thieves so you won’t destroy the rest of the builds that use, for example, sword and pistol?

I see a lot of mediocre people crying about thieves and demanding what they think is a good “fix” when it actually is a nerf and a crippling nerf to other builds.

AN decided to nerf PW (Pistol Whip) without any good reason because people whined about it. So yeah S/P thieves had to bite the kitten so the complainers would feel like their long rivers of bitter tears accomplished something.

How about buffs? I want my PW buffed. Should I start crying cause playing S/P is more difficult?

What about engineers? They are kitten, CRAP, CACA in PVP.

What about warriors? 1000 2h noobs running around thinking they are touched by GOD. At least playing a thiev requires a bit of effort, OP or not, but a dead-brain build like the 2h sword warrior is fine?

So please feel free to make suggestions, but use your bloody heads before you make them. Which whould require you to actually understand how thieves work and not just in the build you want nerfed. Or just shut up and learn to deal with them, cause it’s very, very much possible (except when the culling bug occurs).

They should remove the stealth when thieves are damaged kinda like the stealth you get in EB fountain. Either that, half the stealth duration, which takes into account that the culling kinda increase the duration artificially

Also, reduce thieves damage across the board by 50%. No other class can kill ppl with 2-3 hits without giving opponents a chance to respond. Thieves damage are too high.

Nemo.6295:

So any idea how to fix thieves so you won’t destroy the rest of the builds that use, for example, sword and pistol?

I just did the post before yours…..unless of course your a vomit inducing Cloak and Dagger abuser.

The biggest problem is invisibility. An elite thief can pretty much invisible 24/7. This combined with their 4-8k a hit damage makes them very deadly.

It is very common for an elite thief to 1v3 guys, go invisible, look for softest target, and down him. Then he invisible again and “finish him”.

Even 1v6 an elite thief can often hold his own until reinforcements arrives.

I’m all for thieves being looked at in regards to stealth issues, but to call for their damage to be reduced by 50% across the board by people is the reason why thieves are coming to this thread and being so defensive or accusing people of being on a witch hunt.

A nerf of that size to the class would render them next to useless. They are SUPPOSED to have high burst dps. Should they be able to drop a player with 20k+ hp in 2 seconds with 3 or 4 skills? No, not in my opinion, but they should have the highest dps of all the classes because they sacrifice other things for it.
The problem is with the culling issues and the ability to chain stealth, they aren’t making those sacrifices because its random guesswork if you hit them, and if you do hit them you don’t know because they are stealthed.