Guild Wars 2

Aodh.6418:

None of that works on P/D? If they can’t stealth they do literally no damage. Even if they DO stealth they are so easy to beat it’s funny. One condition removal will beat 80% of P/D thieves. You seem to forget that a good player on ANY class will beat most people. I can run and reset a fight with any of my characters, that’s not exclusive to thieves.

Right, because bleeds can’t be reapplied and condition removals aren’t on cool downs and once you’re unstealthed none of your 1 – 5 abilities work anymore (really? “literally no damage”? :P ). Also, Thieves aren’t one of the highest mobility classes in the game and can catch up to anyone outside maybe a D/D ele.

This conversation has gotten to the point of being surreal.

brogarn.8723:

Aodh.6418:

None of that works on P/D? If they can’t stealth they do literally no damage. Even if they DO stealth they are so easy to beat it’s funny. One condition removal will beat 80% of P/D thieves. You seem to forget that a good player on ANY class will beat most people. I can run and reset a fight with any of my characters, that’s not exclusive to thieves.

Right, because bleeds can’t be reapplied and condition removals aren’t on cool downs and once you’re unstealthed none of your 1 – 5 abilities work anymore (really? “literally no damage”? :P ). Also, Thieves aren’t one of the highest mobility classes in the game and can catch up to anyone outside maybe a D/D ele.

This conversation has gotten to the point of being surreal.

I’m giving up on you, there is no convincing someone that utterly believes they’ve been wronged in some way.

Anyone else reading this, know that thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill. It takes one dodge and one immobilize/knockdown/blowback/daze/stun to completely shut them down.

brogarn.8723:

Aodh.6418:

Anyone else reading this, know that thieves are one of the easiest classes to kill. It takes one dodge and one immobilize/knockdown/blowback/daze/stun to completely shut them down.

Also know that it’s coming from someone who plays a Thief. So take that message with an entire truck load of salt.

This thread has turned from something quasi-positive into a bickering argument between us. I’d rather keep that off the forums so if you really feel the need to continue attacking my statements do it through PMs please.

My statement of thieves dying is coming from a thief player. I make mistakes often and get blown up for them. That’s a truth coming from experience. Also, guardians eat thieves for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

No need for IMs. I’ve said my piece.

Aodh.6418:

This thread has turned from something quasi-positive into a bickering argument between us. I’d rather keep that off the forums so if you really feel the need to continue attacking my statements do it through PMs please.

My statement of thieves dying is coming from a thief player. I make mistakes often and get blown up for them. That’s a truth coming from experience. Also, guardians eat thieves for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

There’s really no way this thread can be positive. No one will acknowledge anyone but themselves or their guildies as being the best and just like all those Simpsons Comic Book Guy’s bashing any gameplay video, people will bash any recommendation on this thread. Plus, it’s about thieves, you know?

Yishis:

http://www.youtube.com/user/bemeric1/videos?view=0&flow=grid

Seren.6850:

havn’t seen any thieves (literally)

Actually I checked my combat logs, his/her name was “Unknown”

Yep I’ve seen this too. Just a sign that the game can’t handle thieves right now and they should be nerfed to the kittening ground until stealth is fixed.

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Yep I’ve seen this too. Just a sign that the game can’t handle thieves right now and they should be nerfed to the kittening ground until stealth is fixed.

You mean you can’t handle thieves, unless you would like to revise your post a bit. If you can’t handle my sword/dagger thief who is mostly P/T/V and other cheap gear who almost never stealths and actually uses Flanking Strike often then there is no class you will handle. Or you could say there’s a certain powerful build compounded by a game design flaw which is currently being dealt with, and overbalancing it right now could render it unplayable after the culling fix.

I have to say you all have it wrong. The best player of any class including thieves is the one who makes the most youtube videos showing all their good plays while editing out all the bad ones.

I like the editing in that video, it was well done.

Edit: The video disappeared!

Me, of course.

15 characters.

I’d have to say best thief I fought against was a JQ thief using P/D or D/P not sure which it was. But they put alot of bleeds on me and I didn’t have conditional removal at the time so it was harsh. I was able to get up again though and finish them off. Flame thrower don’t care about stealth =) So there’s ways/builds to defeat thieves, many people just don’t use them.

Hard to define “best thief” without defining the role a little more narrowly. Yes, there’s a lot of lolburst thieves who jump in, kill one person, then sit around doing nothing for 45 seconds before trying to contribute again. Is the person best at doing that the “best wvw thief?” There’s many options for thieves to actually be useful to a group instead of just solo. Those players tend to not get much attention because while they’re often being far more useful to the WvW effort, it’s from synergy, support, and pressure instead of in one giant show of force.

Personally, I think my condition thief is more useful than any burst or perma-stealth thief. Then again, there’s almost certainly dozens of people with better builds and playstyles than mine besides. On that note, at the risk of making myself less potent, don’t any of you people know how to use condition removal? I really shouldn’t be getting full duration poisons and bleeds, but that seems to be what happens 95% of the time.

The one that hits 1,1,2,1 and wins 90 percent of their fights, wait that is all of them.

I agree with the useful in WvW comment, as most glass cannon backstab thieves don’t do much in-between kills. I personally use a S/D balanced build and will jump to the back of a group and try to cause some commotion. I don’t get a bunch of instagibs like some guys, but if 3-5 guys are chasing shadows while I immobilize/daze my parties target then that’s 4-6 guys that aren’t hitting my team. That being said, I’m below average.

Ok I think I should shed some non-sarcastic light on glass cannon thieves. When I am spec’d glass cannon my attack chain looks something like this. steal/mug 4-8k, Cloak and Dagger 4-8k, followed by backstab 5-10k and good luck pulling that off on a mobile target. After the backstab auto-attack until you can use Cloak and dagger again. If your under heavy attack stealth/heal and maybe even call upon the thieves guild for assistance. heartseek when their life is below half so you have the executioner buff. Also Heartseeker is a great gap closer.. you guys know what a gap closer is right? Obviously if they are sitting point blank and hitting heartseeker on a target with more than half health they are playing bad.

A good glass cannon thief doesn’t need to wait 45 seconds to engage again look up Cloak and Dagger please lol. The hardest part of playing a glass cannon thief build if not getting hit, warriors that root and use hundred blades or whatever its called and then hack you up are a nightmare for a glass cannon thief. I think this is why most people switch builds, it is easy to press the dodge key but pressing it at the right moment to actually dodge an incoming attack is another story. There is almost zero room for playing bad on a glass cannon. kitten around and get rooted in the wrong group and your dead.

Also, I switch to shortbow often when I’m up against large groups of players, glass cannon thieves hit real hard with their shortbow. With all that said I use all my abilities and both weapon slots when I play glass cannon, how on earth do you guys play with only steal, backstab, and heartseeker?

I think most of you have no idea how to play a glass cannon build or what it takes to actually do well on one. You know how many “immortal” builds that can’t be killed like a perma stealth thief or a D/D ele that I kill? Many I am the sole reason they die most of the time when I’m on the field.

brogarn.8723:

Aodh.6418:

They will stealth. Either use a long CD utility, their heal, or they will hit you with CnD. Learn to count to 3 because after 3 seconds you’re going to get hit. Here’s the big secret: DODGE. It’s really easy. Press your dodge button on 3 and watch as the thief comes out of stealth and does 0 damage! Now hit him twice and press F stomp him. Congrats, you killed your first thief.

Done. None of that works on P/D thiefs that aren’t glass canons. And the ones that are and have 2 brain cells bouncing around in their heads, will just reset the fight. Plus they can “DODGE” as you put it. Then there’s caltrops. Then they shortbow or whatever away, stealth again and come back at you with full health. Nice try though. I also like how you added your other classes to your sig since you last posted I’m guessing so you can come off as more legit. Whatever. Thiefs need serious work regardless of how much you try to defend them.

Pack condition cures, and learn to dodge cnd. If a p/d is moving up into melee range, he’s going to CnD. Dodge it two and it will be hard for him to recover. Most p/d thieves use wild bill, meaning devourers, scale, and signet of shadows. Few pack utility skills for stealth because the build utilizes venoms(wild bills at least, which is horrible yet 99% of p/d use it.) You also want to dodge his unloads from stealth Use a good dodge keybind, and with decent reaction you should be able to dodge most CnDs, and if you fail but still have endurance, 3/5 unload shots. Do’nt bother trying to dodge his other attacks. Focus on the two i described. That is the ultimate p/d counter.

Forsaken.2167:

A good glass cannon thief doesn’t need to wait 45 seconds to engage again look up Cloak and Dagger please lol.

Look up Steal please lol.

A good glass cannon can occasionally still contribute some small amounts of value to a teamfight between uses of steal. However, against decent players (except rangers*) a glass cannon thief needs to spend most of that time mitigating damage and cannot get into position to make another strike without the use of steal/mug. CnD is trivially easy to avoid without the Steal synergy so unless you’re playing against the kind of people who just sit there and let you hit them, you’re not going to contribute any meaningful amount to a fight between cooldowns.

• Rangers are the exception here because of the ease of using Cloak and Dagger against pets.

Syeria.4812:

Forsaken.2167:

A good glass cannon thief doesn’t need to wait 45 seconds to engage again look up Cloak and Dagger please lol.

Look up Steal please lol.

A good glass cannon can occasionally still contribute some small amounts of value to a teamfight between uses of steal. However, against decent players (except rangers*) a glass cannon thief needs to spend most of that time mitigating damage and cannot get into position to make another strike without the use of steal/mug. CnD is trivially easy to avoid without the Steal synergy so unless you’re playing against the kind of people who just sit there and let you hit them, you’re not going to contribute any meaningful amount to a fight between cooldowns.

• Rangers are the exception here because of the ease of using Cloak and Dagger against pets.

So your saying CnD is useless without a gap closer? Look up heartseeker please, and yes you can heartseek while stealthed. I already said if you play glass cannon you have to be super mobile, which means you have to be good at closing gaps. My auto-attacks hit for 2k a piece, please don’t tell me I can’t do anything without steal and backstab. Also how is a melee character or ranged that likes to get up close and personal going to avoid my CnD so easily like you say? They aren’t trying to kite me. There is also a weapon swap for a reason, if you are getting hammered and you already burned your stealth/heals then yes you need to back out for a few but you can switch to ranged attacks and kite in the meantime instead of just sitting there which I guess is your strategy.

Forsaken.2167:

Syeria.4812:

Forsaken.2167:

A good glass cannon thief doesn’t need to wait 45 seconds to engage again look up Cloak and Dagger please lol.

Look up Steal please lol.

A good glass cannon can occasionally still contribute some small amounts of value to a teamfight between uses of steal. However, against decent players (except rangers*) a glass cannon thief needs to spend most of that time mitigating damage and cannot get into position to make another strike without the use of steal/mug. CnD is trivially easy to avoid without the Steal synergy so unless you’re playing against the kind of people who just sit there and let you hit them, you’re not going to contribute any meaningful amount to a fight between cooldowns.

• Rangers are the exception here because of the ease of using Cloak and Dagger against pets.

So your saying CnD is useless without a gap closer? Look up heartseeker please, and yes you can heartseek while stealthed. I already said if you play glass cannon you have to be super mobile, which means you have to be good at closing gaps. My auto-attacks hit for 2k a piece, please don’t tell me I can’t do anything without steal and backstab. Also how is a melee character or ranged that likes to get up close and personal going to avoid my CnD so easily like you say? They aren’t trying to kite me. There is also a weapon swap for a reason, if you are getting hammered and you already burned your stealth/heals then yes you need to back out for a few but you can switch to ranged attacks and kite in the meantime instead of just sitting there which I guess is your strategy.

Try reading, you might learn something. If you’re living long enough while being aggressive after being revealed in a teamfight, the group you’re fighting is awful. Again, you can’t get into stealth without CnD (which is trivially easy to dodge, but you’re apparently unaware that there’s even a dodge button) or wasting a long cooldown utility. Even if you do get back into stealth, at best your damage output is dropped to approximately one-third going by your own claims.

So your options against a group that’s not incredibly terrible at this game are either to blow cooldowns and run, or to swap to a weapon set that drops your damage output to just a tiny fraction of anything else you could put out. I’m sure you think you’re the greatest ever, but the reality is you’re just playing against low quality competition or abusing culling issues. There’s plenty of ways to actually contribute to quality fights, but some can only ever reach for the low hanging fruit.

Syeria.4812:

Try reading, you might learn something. If you’re living long enough while being aggressive after being revealed in a teamfight, the group you’re fighting is awful. Again, you can’t get into stealth without CnD (which is trivially easy to dodge, but you’re apparently unaware that there’s even a dodge button) or wasting a long cooldown utility. Even if you do get back into stealth, at best your damage output is dropped to approximately one-third going by your own claims.

So your options against a group that’s not incredibly terrible at this game are either to blow cooldowns and run, or to swap to a weapon set that drops your damage output to just a tiny fraction of anything else you could put out. I’m sure you think you’re the greatest ever, but the reality is you’re just playing against low quality competition or abusing culling issues. There’s plenty of ways to actually contribute to quality fights, but some can only ever reach for the low hanging fruit.

Try not to take it too personal that I don’t agree with you and still don’t. I don’t think I’m the greatest ever and I would not choose to bring a glass cannon build into every fight. I mention the need to be mobile and use dodge effectively multiple times in my posts, maybe you should learn to read? And again, how are you going to know when a CnD is coming to dodge it? It is instant cast without a long animation, you have no idea what your talking about. My shortbow does 4-8k cluster bomb damage and 1.5k auto-attack, it’s not as big as a drop in damage as you claim it is especially if your hitting the group with your aoe’s. Anyway if you back off to recover you shouldn’t be able to do as much damage, how would that make sense? Why not just stay shortbow if that were the case.

Also, how would it be wasting a utility to get back into stealth and try and win the fight? When is it ok with you for me to use my utilities? Shadow Refugee, CnD, Smokebomb, and Hide in Shadows can all get you back in stealth if you do not have the reveal debuff.

Doomdesire.9365:

brogarn.8723:

Aodh.6418:

They will stealth. Either use a long CD utility, their heal, or they will hit you with CnD. Learn to count to 3 because after 3 seconds you’re going to get hit. Here’s the big secret: DODGE. It’s really easy. Press your dodge button on 3 and watch as the thief comes out of stealth and does 0 damage! Now hit him twice and press F stomp him. Congrats, you killed your first thief.

Done. None of that works on P/D thiefs that aren’t glass canons. And the ones that are and have 2 brain cells bouncing around in their heads, will just reset the fight. Plus they can “DODGE” as you put it. Then there’s caltrops. Then they shortbow or whatever away, stealth again and come back at you with full health. Nice try though. I also like how you added your other classes to your sig since you last posted I’m guessing so you can come off as more legit. Whatever. Thiefs need serious work regardless of how much you try to defend them.

Pack condition cures, and learn to dodge cnd. If a p/d is moving up into melee range, he’s going to CnD. Dodge it two and it will be hard for him to recover. Most p/d thieves use wild bill, meaning devourers, scale, and signet of shadows. Few pack utility skills for stealth because the build utilizes venoms(wild bills at least, which is horrible yet 99% of p/d use it.) You also want to dodge his unloads from stealth Use a good dodge keybind, and with decent reaction you should be able to dodge most CnDs, and if you fail but still have endurance, 3/5 unload shots. Do’nt bother trying to dodge his other attacks. Focus on the two i described. That is the ultimate p/d counter.

I’m assuming you mean Sneak Attack and not Unload. Unload requires a P/P weapon set. Also good luck timing the dodge on a Sneak Attack.

I’m the best ever! Thread over.

Boulderbolg.3460:

Yishis:

http://www.youtube.com/user/bemeric1/videos?view=0&flow=grid

I am sorry. Aodh has corrected me, he is the best thief in WvW.

Honestly though, Aodh IS the most important person in our guild.

Supreme.4051:

A dead one…..

I couldn’t agree more. In fact, some sort plague, which was thief-specific, would be lovely.

I never see them and the combat log shows them as unknown. So I don’t know.

I dont know any good thiefs,imo they all play the same,and rarely use anything different then the same skill over and over.Sure there are a few that are good,but i still have to find them though,most just copy/paste googlebuilds and think theyre actually any good while using 1 skill while in stealth,they bore me tbh.

my vote goes to Wild Bill[HAHA]. Faced him on wvw before, not sure if he still plays though.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SlicGW/featured

Yishis:

Also this guy from guildwars2guru (dont know the name but i know hes drom Deso, doesnt have more videos sadly)