Guild Wars 2

Why do orbs of power in WvW give the team holding them buffs?

At the moment if one server steals an orb then suddenly they are much stronger and have a better chance of taking a 3 orb. Then when they do it is pretty much over for the other two servers for an entire week.

It would make much more sense for them to give you points without buffing the team, or even weaken the team that is holding them. That way you would have a much more balanced, fun fight because all the servers would be on even ground and servers that were heavily WvW focused wouldn’t have an even greater advantage.

I have to agree that the reward for winning being the ability to win even harder and the underdog bonus being a PvE buff is a little backwards and needs to be looked in to.

Orbs need to do what the outmanned buff does and the outman buff needs to do what the orbs do. Someone in charge of that got very confused.

Outmanned? HERE HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE FROM NOT BEING ABLE TO CAP ANYTHING. HAVE MAGIC FIND FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO KILL ANYTHING. NOW YOU CAN HAVE 1.5x MORE OF ZERO.

Orbs? OH YOU’RE TOTALLY DOMINATING? HERE HAVE SOME BOONS TO DOMINATE SOME MORE

Stupid.

What were you saying about losing for an entire week?

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

How about you can only have one Orb at a time however you can fight/defend/prevent others away from the Orbs u don’t have.

Igolbug.7295:

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

Wait, the same relics that also made guards weaker? The guards that are completely ineffective in WvW so that can’t be implemented?

People serioulsy need to stop comparing WvW to DAoC. If you want to make these unfounded comparisons, you need to look at the advantages that GW2 already gives to the team with numbers that were not provided to the DAoC zergs.

-Most AOE’s have a 5 target limit. No more rolling around in 8 man squads like you could in DAoC and wrecking unorganized zergs.

-Downed state. Nothing to say here, really. If you can’t see how this scales well with numbers and makes it hard to fight outnumbered, you probably shouldn’t be commenting on the issues at hand. At the very least rallying to NPC’s should probably be removed.

-Playerbase. I’m sorry, but in DAoC most people actually enjoyed the PvP and the competition. At least on the server I played on. Alb was a zerg and Mid and Hib were complete underdogs, but you never really saw Alb gate camping for days on end like you’re seeing the ET players doing. People actually wanted a good fight, maybe because there wasn’t a points system. (Note: I’m not playing against ET, just commenting on the screenshots). In DAoC you couldn’t really “win”, unless you cared about controlling a farm zone. There were no points, there was jut PvP for the sake of PvP, and relics.

-Timed matches. It’s much harder to organize a multi-server organization in one or two week matches. In DAoC your realm tended to be the underdog—permanently. In this game, not so much. When do you choose to break off an alliance? How do you get every guild to agree to one? What happens when servers get mixed up and you’re now the top dog?

Basically, they aren’t the same game. My server is currently winning WvW (Dragonbrand), but I still feel that the orb buffs should be removed. Orb buffs are not only a huge bonus, but you also get another bonus for having the most points (?!?!?!). Why get a 15% HP bonus and 150 stat bonus for the orbs, on top of the 10%ish robust bonus when you’re winning. I just… don’t understand.

The relic system in DAoC is the same as the Orb system in GW2.

The stronger realm(server) ended up being stronger.

I wonder what their rational was for this. Its a mistake as old as the MMO genre and has always been corrected. Why did they make the same mistake in this day and age?

So many threads on this just seen one get deleted that was demanding them to be removed.

Funny thing how wvw players emphasize playing on teams of ten taking out 60.

Yet they complain about such a small bonus.

You had an orb and lost it, that was your bad.

I 2nd the OP

NomNomNomNomNom on anvil rock

The orbs are a pretty large bonus, and they are a problem.

Like you say OP…just switch orbs and outmanned. Done.

This really a simple fix, instead of giving stats or hp boosts. The orbs should just be another (+15) points to the WvW score.

Having +150 all stats and 15% hp over your enemies is just dumb. This is compounded greatly on glass cannon builds. Example: A glass cannon thief can go from maybe 2v1 to upwards of 10v1 with a +3 orb differential. Orbs adds too much passive survivablity.

Yet another agree to swapping the buffs. Never ever understood giving power buffs to an already winning team. Give them gold/xp/magicfind etc, but give the underdogs a buff to fight back a little.

The problem isnt the orbs, its the unfair match ups. once the servers are matched up better, (few more weeks) the battle field will become alot more fair for each side. this is where the orbs will become goals and accomplishment. but still be able for the other side to take them back.

Changing the orbs would be silly and a very bad idea. Give the side without the orbs the bonuses…..? why would anyone want to take them then, no one would want to “WIN” because no one would want to lose their “losing buff”. the orbs are a reward for winning and it should be that way.

like i said wait for the server match ups to be EQUAL, which they will be after some time

No, I’m pretty sure the orbs are a problem as managing to nab all three is a pretty ridiculous combat effectiveness boost. (If you manage to lose anything with +150 all stats and +15% HP, you deserve to lose EVERYTHING)

So one server having 3x more people in WvW isnt the real problem….?

Once the servers match ups are equal you will see a fair fight and it it will be very hard for one side to take the orb from another let alone all 3. and when a server does take an orb it will be alot harder for them to hang onto it. but you wont see this UNTIL equal power servers are matched up.

I understand people are looking for a quick fix but changing the way the orbs work like suggested will cause more problems than fixes

Lets say each server is matched up equal in power and numbers….

the home place for each orb has very powerful guards and has close quick access for players from that side. When the server match ups are actually equal in power it will be very easy to defend your home orb. if an enemy side does manage to grab one they can not keep it protected nearly as good and will mostlikely lose it right away.

But this syetem wont work until the servers are matched up in equal power. the problem right now is the powerhouse servers can run over the weak servers and take all 3 orbs easily because of shear numbers.

Ok let me break this down for you.

If we have a ten vs ten going on and one side owns all the orbs.

What they get when combined is about the equivalent to having one extra player on their side. However, his damage and hp/stats is split throughout the group instead of being a player.

Now when you have a 10 vs 60, the “buff” this would be considered is nearly a 600% increase.

Now, how is it that players who brag about being able to kill with the odds being 600% out of thier favor, complain about it when it is 15% out of thier favor?

From now on, please don’t give me the stories of you out armoring, and outgearing your opponents by nearly the largest gap possible and pretty much being an unkillable machine to 60 people who are pretty much smacking you pillows while you sit there and cut their heads off with swords while confusing this with actually playing better aka skill. I know doac had to have a gear based system just by reading what players wrote, along with also having some other things to clearly imbalance the game if this was happening as often as it seems, enough to be a selling point for wvw by the players that play it.

& until they scale armor and weapons for wvw as well as level, you can also be SoL here, while it probably isn’t as bad as most games due to the scaling until level 80 and have money for rare/exotics.

With this being said, I agree with the buffs being switched (outmanned and orb bonuses). I just do not understand the wvw community from other games AT ALL. I wouldn’t be even talking to you in this section right now, if guildwars was guildwars & this was the side format for you guys. However this is almost the only format I can really talk about.

Here’s the best way I can put it imagine daoc 2 with no motherkittenin wvw or any of the other pvp formats it had. Instead the format they give you, is capture the flag from the enemies base and bring it to your base as pvp.

How would that make you feel? Would it make you want to teleport to [Murdered Dreams Waypoint]? I’m actually on my way there right now.

Igolbug.7295:

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

Shhh…apparently we are supposed to forget that game existed! Didn’t you kow, all these issues are new and unique to GW2 so, obviously, the developers MUST address these issues!

MrPicklez.6473:

Igolbug.7295:

Why did relics in DAoC give the team holding them buffs?

Wait, the same relics that also made guards weaker? The guards that are completely ineffective in WvW so that can’t be implemented?

People serioulsy need to stop comparing WvW to DAoC. If you want to make these unfounded comparisons, you need to look at the advantages that GW2 already gives to the team with numbers that were not provided to the DAoC zergs.

-Most AOE’s have a 5 target limit. No more rolling around in 8 man squads like you could in DAoC and wrecking unorganized zergs.

-Downed state. Nothing to say here, really. If you can’t see how this scales well with numbers and makes it hard to fight outnumbered, you probably shouldn’t be commenting on the issues at hand. At the very least rallying to NPC’s should probably be removed.

-Playerbase. I’m sorry, but in DAoC most people actually enjoyed the PvP and the competition. At least on the server I played on. Alb was a zerg and Mid and Hib were complete underdogs, but you never really saw Alb gate camping for days on end like you’re seeing the ET players doing. People actually wanted a good fight, maybe because there wasn’t a points system. (Note: I’m not playing against ET, just commenting on the screenshots). In DAoC you couldn’t really “win”, unless you cared about controlling a farm zone. There were no points, there was jut PvP for the sake of PvP, and relics.

-Timed matches. It’s much harder to organize a multi-server organization in one or two week matches. In DAoC your realm tended to be the underdog—permanently. In this game, not so much. When do you choose to break off an alliance? How do you get every guild to agree to one? What happens when servers get mixed up and you’re now the top dog?

Basically, they aren’t the same game. My server is currently winning WvW (Dragonbrand), but I still feel that the orb buffs should be removed. Orb buffs are not only a huge bonus, but you also get another bonus for having the most points (?!?!?!). Why get a 15% HP bonus and 150 stat bonus for the orbs, on top of the 10%ish robust bonus when you’re winning. I just… don’t understand.

First, let me go ahead and get this out of the way. You and I have had this discussion in the past and for the most part agree that there are mechanics in place in GW2 to affect the comparison between it and DAoC.

I agree with the AoE difference, and it needs to be changed in GW2, at least in WvWvW.

I agree with the Downed state issue, and it needs to be changed in GW2, at least in WvWvW.

I both agree and disagree with the player base issue. However, I saw plenty of PK and MG camps in DAoC. This was especially true during a relic attempt. It was advantageous to bottle up the home realm when you were making a relic attempt. This leads us to GW2, where due to the supply mechanic it is advantageous to bottle up an enemy for as long as possible.

I agree with the timed matches being an issues, and while I personally would rather have permanent matching I understand why ANet chose to do it this way. When the matches go to two weeks it should alleviate this issue somewhat.

However, unless something changed in the past few years (after I left the game) relics did not make RK guards weaker. You have a fixed number of guards, and if you split you relic types (tried to keep both Strength and Power relics) then your guards were split between both RKs. However if you focused on one type only it made no difference if you had 1, 2, or 3 (from the stand point of guard strength).

Having said all this, I will repeat what I have said in other threads I have replied to you in, these are not reasons to dumb down the mechanics of GW2 (removing/altering Orbs of Power in this case), but rather reasons to alter the mechanics listed above to facilitate a stronger/better WvWvW experience.

They dont need to change or remove the orbs. They do need to rework the outmanned buff its just completely useless. As others have said once the servers are matched up a little better the battle for the orbs will even out and all will be well. Orbs should be the 2nd goal in WvW next to capturing keeps/tower/camps and should require organization and effort to be obtained. After all attaining such a bonus after it was well fought for is what its all about.

The difference between DAoC and GW2 is that in DAoC, cross-realm would team up routinely against the winning realm to steal the orbs back (numerical and tactical advantage). That type of coordination doesn’t happen when you have a new “companion” server world every day/week in GW2.

ANet needs to intervene where consistent server coordination is impossible and quite frankly, highly discouraged anyways and viewed as a form of ‘bad sportsmanship’ by the winning server.