Guild Wars 2

I’ll start by saying that I’m posting on behalf of some friends of mine who joined the game recently, as well as my partner, who started playing in the Beta before we had to take a break from the game for a little while. (I’ve had my map finished for a while, but they deliberately about forum interaction.)

The fact that World Vs World maps are part of map completion combined with how relatively stagnant the current server ranking system has become makes it very difficult for many individuals to complete their world maps.

Back in the early days when match ups basically changed weekly, the rotations were not only more dynamic, but also had a tendency to mix up the color your server would represent. Our server has been stuck as the “red” server for two months and counting (if not more than that,) and certain points of interest and vista on the map have remained very difficult to capture.

Whether this is because the servers we’re up against are too challenging or that we’re not organized enough to take the towers isn’t really what I’m trying to address – I’d rather address the relative ease one used to have in getting to those locations on the map. If it was too rough to get one week, you could wait a week or two for the colors to rotate in your favor. Now the advice other players offer is either “pay some gems to transfer servers” or “buy a commander tag and lead an assault on where you need,” neither of which are easily accessible or desirable for most casual players. (Please don’t tell me that gold is “so easy” to get in this game, either – I’ve heard it, and am also conscious that not every player has the same experience regarding in-game wealth.)

I’d like to see a weekly rotation of colors within tiers, and / or a different scoring system that would allow for more dynamic match ups. The current system encourages server transfers, which I understand is a gem / gold sink, and thus might be intentional, but is not very player-friendly. Hopefully this is in the works, but more importantly I hope these changes are coming soon if they are indeed coming at all.

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

They’re already putting in color rotation, which has been said LOADS of times in the past few weeks on these forums about this same whining.

But yes, I agree, the current system hampers world completion, I mean, I have to get the over 95% in PvE zones which interferes with my WvW. And let me tell you..thats a much bigger number than the WvW map completion…

From my experience every tower/keep on the map flips at least once, if not ,just wait and chill until they update it. Until then, just remember this: every time someone comes in whining about a few percentage points for map completion, while dedicated WvW’s have to get the rest of it, an angel loses its wings!

If it wasn’t meant to be for alleged “carebears” then it shouldn’t incorporate PvE elements. I don’t think it’s the intention of ArenaNet to make parts of the game inaccessible for certain styles of game play yet force players to complete them if they want to achieve something in another part of the game. (Well, maybe Fractals, but they’ve since broadened access to Ascended Trinkets)

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

SvenskiNavi, not everyone cares about Legendaries, contrary to popular belief. Some players just want map completion for map completion’s sake. They’re the same players that try to unlock 100% on Super Mario World or whatever. If the argument is that someone should have to participate in WvW in order to earn a Legendary, there’s already the 500 Badge of Honor requirement. Map Completion should either be separate or easier, whether by changing the color rotation or removing the WvW map points of interest / vistas as necessary for completion.

Valik Shin, there’s WvW / PvP players who have complaints about the current system apart from the map completion issue, myself included. I don’t appreciate your tone.

Sinaya.4201:

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

This statement right here only proves my point. You’re saying you don’t want to have to do WvW stuff since you don’t want to play WvW. However, there are quite a few WvW’ers who don’t like doing PvE map completion, grinding dungeons endlessly, etc. It really stuns me that PvE’ers come in here and make this argument, then go against their argument by saying that it’s not the same the other way around.

That being said, I agree, if you don’t want to WvW, you shouldn’t have to, so, like it has been said on the forums many times, the devs are working on introducing color rotations. SO, you’ll just have to wait, or go play some WvW.

Handin.4032:

But yes, I agree, the current system hampers world completion, I mean, I have to get the over 95% in PvE zones which interferes with my WvW. And let me tell you..thats a much bigger number than the WvW map completion…

I don’t think that’s really the point. Players who don’t want to participate in player vs player play must play in PvP in order to complete their map. I don’t think that this is particularly fair. MMO’s can be entirely about cooperative play, a play style that this particular game caters to very well – up until this point of map completion. It’s frustrating for a completionist to earn 95% of their map completion only to find that they have to subject themselves to WvW in order to earn their map achievement.

Players who only want to participate in PvP exclusively can PvP all day with minimal or no PvE exposure, more so now than ever with additional gear being available in exchange for Badges of Honor and WvW-specific Daily Quest options.

I personally enjoy WvW for the most part, but I empathize with my friends who don’t want to participate in PvP for any number of reasons but feel the need to in order to complete their maps. I feel even more sorry for them when they find that they can’t complete their maps because of relative server strength in PvP.

Handin.4032:

Sinaya.4201:

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

This statement right here only proves my point. You’re saying you don’t want to have to do WvW stuff since you don’t want to play WvW. However, there are quite a few WvW’ers who don’t like doing PvE map completion, grinding dungeons endlessly, etc. It really stuns me that PvE’ers come in here and make this argument, then go against their argument by saying that it’s not the same the other way around.

That being said, I agree, if you don’t want to WvW, you shouldn’t have to, so, like it has been said on the forums many times, the devs are working on introducing color rotations. SO, you’ll just have to wait, or go play some WvW.

What would a WvW’er have to do PvE for other than… well, I can’t think of anything other than a Legendary or Back Items honestly. Ascended Trinkets (Except for back items) are available via Laurels, which are available to every play style. (Even sPvP) All of the armor and weapon stat combinations are available via Badges of Honor. Unless you’re looking for a specific Skin or something, the WvW-shouldn’t-have-to-PvE argument doesn’t really stand up.

A purist in WvW probably wouldn’t care about armor skins or a legendary weapon as they don’t have any impact on actual PvP.

Also, the reason people keep complaining is because nothing has changed yet. Meanwhile, WvW continues to see changes every update, if not every month (however small or controversial)

I think wvw being included int he world completion is a great idea. If you care for the completion – get your feet wet enough to see if you like it. Who knows you just might. The real problem would be the fact that without color rotation it is not about getting your feet wet, it’s about being on the right server. Once the rotation is added it should only take something like a month of casually getting into wvw and getting completion of the right color. Since you can do it from the get go, that is probably about the amount of time it will take to complete the rest of the PVE map, get the required materials and what not.

Ikarushka.9564:

I think wvw being included int he world completion is a great idea…

I agree, after all, it is not really “World Completion” if you leave out a part of the world is it? I think there are some options for players to get WvW maps completed. Gather up some friends and pitch in and help your server open the POI’s you need. If your server can’t open up one of the colors, pick a server that is dominating that color and transfer. Go here to help your research: http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/#NA

I don’t think that expecting a player to pay gems in order to change servers simply for world completion is an acceptable solution, especially if said player has no desire to leave their current server, in which case they’d have to pay the gem fee again in order to come back.

I hope the in-tier color rotation change comes soon, and that the amount of compassion on the forums isn’t always this shockingly low. I’m beginning to understand why they’re avoided by some.

I think you should change the title of this thread to “I want World Completion to not be challenging”.

Also, there are a lot of these complaint threads existing already. You should join the chats in those threads instead of making duplicate ones.

@Sinaya, to mimic and twist your argument,

Why do PvE’rs have to have map completion? Other than legendaries I can’t think of much, unless you like having the nice star icon next to your name that proves you’re well travelled – does this make you more effective in PvE? Not really.

WvW players should obviously not care to want Legendaries or map completion stars, seeing as having awesome aesthetics adds nothing statistically to our playstyle, we shouldn’t want them. I think tbh that I should be allowed to ‘want’ nice things, without having to jeopardise my ‘pure WvW’ playstyle, but still I have to dip myself into the unpleasant business of CoF farming to make ends meet. If we want to go do map completion for a legendary or a star icon, let us, because we have just as much entitlement as you do. We should really be complaining louder than you because we need to go for 80% to boring generic PvE zoned and slap this monster with this sword, or press F on this thing, to get those awful heart things done.

To get your legendary or your completion star, you have to work for it and dip your feet into every part of the game – complete it, some might say. That involves actually playing it, not waiting for a week so you can stroll into a tower instead. Go and fight and die for your server like the rest of us, work for your tower, capture it, fight, kill, win, make an effort; play World Versus World.

We have to press F on interactive objects all day like you PvErs, should we dare to want a nice weapon.

Sinaya.4201:

Handin.4032:

But yes, I agree, the current system hampers world completion, I mean, I have to get the over 95% in PvE zones which interferes with my WvW. And let me tell you..thats a much bigger number than the WvW map completion…

I don’t think that’s really the point. Players who don’t want to participate in player vs player play must play in PvP in order to complete their map. I don’t think that this is particularly fair. MMO’s can be entirely about cooperative play, a play style that this particular game caters to very well – up until this point of map completion. It’s frustrating for a completionist to earn 95% of their map completion only to find that they have to subject themselves to WvW in order to earn their map achievement.

Players who only want to participate in PvP exclusively can PvP all day with minimal or no PvE exposure, more so now than ever with additional gear being available in exchange for Badges of Honor and WvW-specific Daily Quest options.

I personally enjoy WvW for the most part, but I empathize with my friends who don’t want to participate in PvP for any number of reasons but feel the need to in order to complete their maps. I feel even more sorry for them when they find that they can’t complete their maps because of relative server strength in PvP.

can i ask why people play a game called Guild Wars and don’t participate in pvp?

Lightsbane.9012:

can i ask why people play a game called Guild Wars and don’t participate in pvp?

I’ll play PvP when Anet brings GvG and HoH to GW2. Untill then, I’ll stick to Pve/Dungeons. I’d yather see WvWvW be HoH oriented than how it is now. And give us a reason to do it. Back in GW, whoever held HoH opened up FoW/UW for there side. No reason they can’t do this but make it between 3 servers instead of between continents.

Galphar.3901:

I’ll play PvP when Anet brings GvG and HoH to GW2. Untill then, I’ll stick to Pve/Dungeons. I’d yather see WvWvW be HoH oriented than how it is now. And give us a reason to do it. Back in GW, whoever held HoH opened up FoW/UW for there side. No reason they can’t do this but make it between 3 servers instead of between continents.

This would actually be cool, but favors population too much unfortunately. In GW1 it worked because of fixed team sizes, but we wouldn’t want this to end up being “Whoever has more people gets to play this cool PvE content on their server”. Talk about a fast way to empty out servers that can’t hold the point that rewards the PvE content, though.

Immolator.5640:

@Sinaya, to mimic and twist your argument,

Why do PvE’rs have to have map completion? Other than legendaries I can’t think of much, unless you like having the nice star icon next to your name that proves you’re well travelled – does this make you more effective in PvE? Not really.

WvW players should obviously not care to want Legendaries or map completion stars, seeing as having awesome aesthetics adds nothing statistically to our playstyle, we shouldn’t want them. I think tbh that I should be allowed to ‘want’ nice things, without having to jeopardise my ‘pure WvW’ playstyle, but still I have to dip myself into the unpleasant business of CoF farming to make ends meet. If we want to go do map completion for a legendary or a star icon, let us, because we have just as much entitlement as you do. We should really be complaining louder than you because we need to go for 80% to boring generic PvE zoned and slap this monster with this sword, or press F on this thing, to get those awful heart things done.

To get your legendary or your completion star, you have to work for it and dip your feet into every part of the game – complete it, some might say. That involves actually playing it, not waiting for a week so you can stroll into a tower instead. Go and fight and die for your server like the rest of us, work for your tower, capture it, fight, kill, win, make an effort; play World Versus World.

We have to press F on interactive objects all day like you PvErs, should we dare to want a nice weapon.

You forgot to add how screwed PvP players are for Guild events. Most PvP players do not have the way points to participate.

Not to mention how PvE players screw the maps by being in the JP.

@Sinaya
Your 5% is a much smaller barrier than the 95% of hoops PvP players would be forced to jump through.

Krakah.3582:

You forgot to add how screwed PvP players are for Guild events. Most PvP players do not have the way points to participate.

It would actually be really sweet if there were WvW Guild Missions. Something like “Take a certain point!” would be awesome, or, well, I have no idea what they could do, but it’d be cool if they did it.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently in the process of taking some steps to alleviate this. Both on the stagnant match side and on the server color side.

Glad to hear it, thank you!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think you should change the title of this thread to “I want World Completion to not be challenging”.

Also, there are a lot of these complaint threads existing already. You should join the chats in those threads instead of making duplicate ones.

Because there’s no duplicated threads about anything anywhere else on the forum, right?

Any WvW junkie will tell you that World Completion is plenty challenging, since they don’t want to deal with the other 95% of the map, apparently. A few of them posted here.

Immolator.5640:

@Sinaya, to mimic and twist your argument,

Why do PvE’rs have to have map completion? Other than legendaries I can’t think of much, unless you like having the nice star icon next to your name that proves you’re well travelled – does this make you more effective in PvE? Not really.

WvW players should obviously not care to want Legendaries or map completion stars, seeing as having awesome aesthetics adds nothing statistically to our playstyle, we shouldn’t want them. I think tbh that I should be allowed to ‘want’ nice things, without having to jeopardise my ‘pure WvW’ playstyle, but still I have to dip myself into the unpleasant business of CoF farming to make ends meet. If we want to go do map completion for a legendary or a star icon, let us, because we have just as much entitlement as you do. We should really be complaining louder than you because we need to go for 80% to boring generic PvE zoned and slap this monster with this sword, or press F on this thing, to get those awful heart things done.

To get your legendary or your completion star, you have to work for it and dip your feet into every part of the game – complete it, some might say. That involves actually playing it, not waiting for a week so you can stroll into a tower instead. Go and fight and die for your server like the rest of us, work for your tower, capture it, fight, kill, win, make an effort; play World Versus World.

We have to press F on interactive objects all day like you PvErs, should we dare to want a nice weapon.

Map Completion and gaining a Legendary are different animals.

A Legendary requires 500 Badges of Honor, which means that a player would have to dip into WvW anyway.

I don’t really appreciate the implication that PvE players are lazy or have it easy. If that were the case, then WvWer’s would have anything to complain about regarding the other 95% of map completion.

Seriously, the animosity some players feel towards other players is startling. I’ve already finished my map completion, and participate in WvW because I have fun with it sometimes. Other players don’t feel the same way, and I don’t think it’s fair that they be forced to deal with, for lack of a better term, the likes of PvPers.

Y’all don’t really seem to want them on your precious map anyway, filling up your queues and taking up space.

It’s sort of moot anyway since changes are apparently coming – I just hope it happens soon.

You guys have it easy but boring, in my regard, I don’t want to spend a few weeks spamming F on everything to get map completion, so what? If that’s PvE and I want game completion, that being part of the game/map, I’ll go do it; Legendary peoplez more often than not just port themselves up the JP every day religiously. Map completion and Legendary are the same animals in that they both require map completion. If you just did completion like ANet probably wanted it to be done, i.e. actually got involved and played some WvW, then you could get your 500 badges in no time, just by doing that. For me WvW map completion is just something that happens, you don’t need to think about it, I just play mah game normally and it’s done within a few days. I think I got EB completion the first day of release on my old main. I don’t have to go out of m way to grind things or anything, just play WvW. Surely that would be easier than making the devs cater to your ‘I just want to walk in and walk out’ point of view, which is highly hypocritical in all fairness.

Sinaya.4201:

If it wasn’t meant to be for alleged “carebears” then it shouldn’t incorporate PvE elements. I don’t think it’s the intention of ArenaNet to make parts of the game inaccessible for certain styles of game play yet force players to complete them if they want to achieve something in another part of the game. (Well, maybe Fractals, but they’ve since broadened access to Ascended Trinkets)

Not everyone wants to play in WvW, but not wanting to play there shouldn’t limit one’s access to Map Completion.

SvenskiNavi, not everyone cares about Legendaries, contrary to popular belief. Some players just want map completion for map completion’s sake. They’re the same players that try to unlock 100% on Super Mario World or whatever. If the argument is that someone should have to participate in WvW in order to earn a Legendary, there’s already the 500 Badge of Honor requirement. Map Completion should either be separate or easier, whether by changing the color rotation or removing the WvW map points of interest / vistas as necessary for completion.

Valik Shin, there’s WvW / PvP players who have complaints about the current system apart from the map completion issue, myself included. I don’t appreciate your tone.

I don’t really care if u like my tone or not. I don’t like having to wait in a que to get into a map that has a bunch of people in it who don’t care about winning. As for the color changes they are that way for a reason. SM is balanced to give red an edge. If u give a server that is already clearly better than the other 2 it will create a massive imbalance in wvw. I’ll take red spawn anytime over the other 2

Sinaya.4201:

What would a WvW’er have to do PvE for other than… well, I can’t think of anything other than a Legendary or Back Items honestly. Ascended Trinkets (Except for back items) are available via Laurels, which are available to every play style. (Even sPvP) All of the armor and weapon stat combinations are available via Badges of Honor. Unless you’re looking for a specific Skin or something, the WvW-shouldn’t-have-to-PvE argument doesn’t really stand up.

A purist in WvW probably wouldn’t care about armor skins or a legendary weapon as they don’t have any impact on actual PvP.

Also, the reason people keep complaining is because nothing has changed yet. Meanwhile, WvW continues to see changes every update, if not every month (however small or controversial)

So WvWers don’t need legendaries or map completion because they’re just pointless shinies, but the same thing can be said about PvE players. Ultimately, shinies are shinies, no matter what game mode you are playing in. One of the best parts of this game is that all the cosmetic crap in the game is almost entirely optional. If I don’t want to grind my way through 4 Arah runs every day for a week to get the skin, I don’t have to, because the exact same stats on that armor are available elsewhere. If your friend doesn’t want to actually play WvW, then they don’t have to, but they don’t get their precious star.

I think you’re opperating under the assumption that certain things that are optional in WvW are not optional in PvE. How is getting map completion somehow an integral part of the PvE game mode. Are you unable to do dungeons without map complete? are there dragon bosses that cannot be done without 100% map complete? No, on both accounts.

In fact, gear is even less “Optional” for WvWers because if I am wearing all Masterwork gear, and I meet an equally skilled enemy wearing all Exotics/Ascended, he’s going to stomp me in to the dirt. On the other hand, i know for a fact that almost every dungeon run and even chain in the game can be completed with a skilled party even if they are all wearing masterwork items.

So please, I understand your argument, I understand that people might have to participate in a part of the game that they do not enjoy to get something cool. WvW players don’t (or if they do, rarely) come in to the PvE forums asking for entirely optional titles and items to be handed to them on a silver platter. So please, do us the common courtesy of not doing the same thing to us.

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

There has been no hostility, just people showing you the OTHER side of these arguments. Often enough people who do PvE forget that their arguments go both ways. So, don’t try to put all this off as hostility. There’s been no name calling, etc…just showing you how your argument is flawed, and pointing out the flaws and our reasoning.

Handin.4032:

That being said, I agree, if you don’t want to WvW, you shouldn’t have to, so, like it has been said on the forums many times, the devs are working on introducing color rotations. SO, you’ll just have to wait, or go play some WvW.

The lack of understanding in these forums is astounding some times. I mainly WvW but I can see how map completion would be almost impossible depending on the server you’re on because certain locations hardly ever become available.

Its not a matter of having to do some WvW they would have to be doing it for a large proportion of the time, which is clearly not reasonable. And its not their fault, its the way anet have set up the game.

Sinaya.4201:

Y’all don’t really seem to want them on your precious map anyway, filling up your queues and taking up space.

It’s sort of moot anyway since changes are apparently coming – I just hope it happens soon.

Well to pop you off your high horse for a bit. No one said ban all PvE players from PvP to lock em away in care bear land and throw away the key.

Many PvP players advocated JP’s be moved to private instances that are not linked to PvP map ques, so it would be a win win for everyone. WvW players and guilds want the PvX player for their map milita.

Also with the 10:1 or greater ratio of PvX players you’d think there would be some support from that player base. Like help us help you and all, but nope.

I can also claim the WvW community is far more accepting of fresh bodies than the majority of dungeon groups. You know biased PoV and all.

Most people saying that ‘legendaries’ requires ‘world completion’ should know, that mayny players buy their legendaries from the Trading Post. They earn the most of their money by trading, and not by pvp, nor by wvw, and not by pve’ing.

So saying that map completion is ‘required’ to get a legendary, is not entirely true.

morrolan.9608:

The lack of understanding in these forums is astounding some times. I mainly WvW but I can see how map completion would be almost impossible depending on the server you’re on because certain locations hardly ever become available.

I have to agree, I’m from Furguson’s Crossing; us and ET have a horrid time of things but we will prevail, rank#22 here we come.

morrolan.9608:

Its not a matter of having to do some WvW they would have to be doing it for a large proportion of the time, which is clearly not reasonable. And its not their fault, its the way anet have set up the game.

Yes this is exactly the point. I love WvW, its all I play now that I’ve done the “borring” part of PvE but once you need to get that 1% on a “stagnent server” it just becomes a waiting game, this is needlessly frustrating and disheartening. I help our team, I fight but overall what most players are up in arms about is the fact that their personal world completion depends on other players getting up off their kitten and doing things. As Morrolan said its not the players fault its they way ANet have designed it.

Sinaya.4201:

I’ll start by saying that I’m posting on behalf of some friends of mine who joined the game recently, as well as my partner, who started playing in the Beta before we had to take a break from the game for a little while. (I’ve had my map finished for a while, but they deliberately about forum interaction.)

The fact that World Vs World maps are part of map completion combined with how relatively stagnant the current server ranking system has become makes it very difficult for many individuals to complete their world maps.

Back in the early days when match ups basically changed weekly, the rotations were not only more dynamic, but also had a tendency to mix up the color your server would represent. Our server has been stuck as the “red” server for two months and counting (if not more than that,) and certain points of interest and vista on the map have remained very difficult to capture.

Whether this is because the servers we’re up against are too challenging or that we’re not organized enough to take the towers isn’t really what I’m trying to address – I’d rather address the relative ease one used to have in getting to those locations on the map. If it was too rough to get one week, you could wait a week or two for the colors to rotate in your favor. Now the advice other players offer is either “pay some gems to transfer servers” or “buy a commander tag and lead an assault on where you need,” neither of which are easily accessible or desirable for most casual players. (Please don’t tell me that gold is “so easy” to get in this game, either – I’ve heard it, and am also conscious that not every player has the same experience regarding in-game wealth.)

I’d like to see a weekly rotation of colors within tiers, and / or a different scoring system that would allow for more dynamic match ups. The current system encourages server transfers, which I understand is a gem / gold sink, and thus might be intentional, but is not very player-friendly. Hopefully this is in the works, but more importantly I hope these changes are coming soon if they are indeed coming at all.

No not every player buys their legendary stop your complaining. First of all you don’t need your map completion if your not going for legendary so stop making a fuss. Wvw is part of the game and is pve content too. So as long as its not added on anymore it be fine.

Sorry not every has 2500 gold. We actually take time to craft out legendaries. Like I said, you don’t need map completion if your not going for legendary.

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

Immolator.5640:

@Sinaya, to mimic and twist your argument,

Why do PvE’rs have to have map completion? Other than legendaries I can’t think of much, unless you like having the nice star icon next to your name that proves you’re well travelled – does this make you more effective in PvE? Not really.

WvW players should obviously not care to want Legendaries or map completion stars, seeing as having awesome aesthetics adds nothing statistically to our playstyle, we shouldn’t want them. I think tbh that I should be allowed to ‘want’ nice things, without having to jeopardise my ‘pure WvW’ playstyle, but still I have to dip myself into the unpleasant business of CoF farming to make ends meet. If we want to go do map completion for a legendary or a star icon, let us, because we have just as much entitlement as you do. We should really be complaining louder than you because we need to go for 80% to boring generic PvE zoned and slap this monster with this sword, or press F on this thing, to get those awful heart things done.

To get your legendary or your completion star, you have to work for it and dip your feet into every part of the game – complete it, some might say. That involves actually playing it, not waiting for a week so you can stroll into a tower instead. Go and fight and die for your server like the rest of us, work for your tower, capture it, fight, kill, win, make an effort; play World Versus World.

We have to press F on interactive objects all day like you PvErs, should we dare to want a nice weapon.

In pve mobs aggro is caused by toughness, in wvw aggro is caused by commander tags and legendarys. There is some merit to a bunker having aggro in wvw

Here’s a thought – rush the points you’re missing on reset night. Set something up so a bunch of you all hit the same map that night with the sole focus being to capture objective X, Y, and Z, just so you can complete your maps. Everything is paper at reset.

I do recommend exotic toughness gear though…no sense getting steamrolled by a force half your size because you’re all running around in glass cannon yellow gear

Who knows – you just might actually ENJOY yourselves while doing it, too.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

I think my favorite part of this whole thread , (Which I’d intended to ignore, but it just got so many comments…) is that I actually do actively participate in World vs World. I was just posting on behalf of people who would prefer not to, and also prefer not to post on the forums.

In any case, thank you for the support.

Lightsbane.9012:

Sinaya.4201:

Handin.4032:

But yes, I agree, the current system hampers world completion, I mean, I have to get the over 95% in PvE zones which interferes with my WvW. And let me tell you..thats a much bigger number than the WvW map completion…

I don’t think that’s really the point. Players who don’t want to participate in player vs player play must play in PvP in order to complete their map. I don’t think that this is particularly fair. MMO’s can be entirely about cooperative play, a play style that this particular game caters to very well – up until this point of map completion. It’s frustrating for a completionist to earn 95% of their map completion only to find that they have to subject themselves to WvW in order to earn their map achievement.

Players who only want to participate in PvP exclusively can PvP all day with minimal or no PvE exposure, more so now than ever with additional gear being available in exchange for Badges of Honor and WvW-specific Daily Quest options.

I personally enjoy WvW for the most part, but I empathize with my friends who don’t want to participate in PvP for any number of reasons but feel the need to in order to complete their maps. I feel even more sorry for them when they find that they can’t complete their maps because of relative server strength in PvP.

can i ask why people play a game called Guild Wars and don’t participate in pvp?

Why do people play Guild Wars and not pvp?

Because it’s a beautiful world and the PvE is fun.

I don’t pvp, I will freely admit that I’m simply not a good enough player to do so and I don’t enjoy grinding for items that pvp seems to require.

I will spend quite a bit of money for gems for fluff and it’s people like me who help to support Anet and GW2 with our credit cards.

So whilst many pvpers look down at those of us who do not like their game style, we are still supporting it by buying pet hippos and I do hope there is a kitten for sale today!

Back on topic, my dislike of pvp will possibly prevent me from completing the map, unless I can find pvpers who will carebear me around the wvw map.

Edit: some weirdness seems to have occured with the post above. I apologise to the person who posted it

As a competitive wvw player, and an occasional player of spvp I do not personally feel that doing pvp of any sort should be a requirement for getting a legendary, or for that matter any generalized items within the game. I can understand that some prefer strictly cooperative play.

I do, however feel that those of us who spend most of our time in wvw and spvp should be provided with the same level of rewards as those who strictly pve, which is currently not the case. Alternatively, I feel pve should not be a requirement for the legendary.

Join a zerg/army, wait for the borderlands to flip. Even if you’re not a pvp’er, joining a zerg and spamming 1 isn’t all that difficult. Servers usually have strong times— find yours. Earn that world completion.

Monotonous and boring? I’ve heard wvw’ers say the same of pve— an element that comprises 94% of this particular achievement— currently a requirement for the legendary.

~ Kovu

I think the status quo is pretty okay. I mean, if you’re going to address something along the thought train of “shouldn’t have to do specific content for completion”, then address Ascended gear first- Something which actually has real ramifications.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

As a WvW player myself, I have to agree. The amount of exclusion and arrogance in the community is quite sickening. Unfortunately you see this all the time, especially towards PvE players or casual gamers. :/

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

That’s why you’re prolly being called a care bear. Nobody’s being hostile, or flaming you at all. As stated before your arguments are pretty biased and then when you don’t get what you want to hear, you turn yourself to some sort of a victim.

bravoart.5308:

SvenskNavi.9378:

Yes, let’s hear another post about how legendaries need to be easier to get.

Valik Shin.9027:

You don’t like too bad. This is wvw its a form of pvp not some place for all the carebear pve players to hang out

Make a well thought out post on the WvW forums, first two replies shows you exactly why most casual PvE players don’t want to enter WvW.

So you’re taking the first two comments and generalizing the rest of the communities? So if 2 foreigners spoke badly and belittled you and your people are you going to forever dislike them and their whole community? Very very narrowed minded.

I remembered some of our guildmates needed world completion cuz they just felt like getting it. But due to the hardships of being #3, we didn’t have the luxury and they even contemplated switching servers to get the world completion. Switching world isn’t just betrayal to our server, but to our guild as well and thoughts like those are not tolerated. But that being said sympathy and feelings of inferiority showed and helped us became a stronger guild. We rallied everyone, and went on a expedition to get everyone in guild who wanted world completion to get their legendaries. We killed, we looted, and destroyed everything infront of us. Wasted ridiculous amounts of gold for all those golems and misc weapon seiges and took everything we wanted to. We gained the respect of our server, role played the ideas that Anet had for players who seeked their legendaries, some of our pve guys were respected by pvp players for throwing it down in wvwvw, and in the end some of us made our legendaries.

If you’re not willing to get your guild to participate in tower seiging, Not willing to play the hard times w/ your pvp community and not willing to invest time to help take that tower, why should you deserve a legendary?

This is not coming from a pvp player to a pve player, this is coming from a person to another person: IF YOU WANNA TAKE THE EASY ROUTE AND WAIT FOR SHlT TO HAPPEN SO U CAN GET IT IN THEN YOU BETTER THINK TWICE. MAN UP, STOP CRYING, AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF MAKING USELESS POSTS LIKE THESE. IF YOU CAN’T TAKE THAT TOWER, CAN’T GAIN RESPECT OF OTHER PLAYERS AND RALLY THEM TO CONQUER, THEN GTFOUTTA HERE WITH OWNING A LEGENDARY. Cuz then you’d just be a fake legend. An anounymous money spender or something along the line. Wake up, and plan for your legendary. Because TRUST me, if you do it the right way… The weapon is not the legendary, but the character, the name and the player behind the screen becomes the legend… Which imo is the ulitimate reward. That’s why we pvpers pvp, that’s why we sit for hours and hours to wvww. It’s to get that recognition. We don’t do it to look cute, we dont do it for the money, we do it for respect. My guildmates are lvl 80 running around with 10-20 gold only. It tells a lot (other from them being poor).

I didn’t read the full thread but you people who are saying “why play a game called guild wars if you’re not going to pvp” are making yourselves look like compete kittens…. might want to read some lore on the game before making silly remarks… It’s about the story line guilds primarily…

DevonCarver.5370:

We are currently in the process of taking some steps to alleviate this. Both on the stagnant match side and on the server color side.

Thank you for looking into this. For everyone saying that WvW is just 5% of world completion so it is not that bad….. well try this one.

Your server is outnumbered most of the time in WvW and stuck at blue color for like months now, and actually never got to be green since September last year. You can only play around prime time, and the only thing you need to get is the eternal battlegrounds green corner keep which is fully upgraded, full supply and like the rest of the whole map… green. It is also well defended lots of siege inside (which stays due to not despawning/refreshing) and has at least one scout around the whole time who can call in a lot of defenders who will outnumber you in no time, as soon as you start attacking. O and last but not least, you don’t have an massive zerg of over 50+ players to help you, let alone a well organized one

Good Luck, its almost impossible to pull off. We managed to do this with an guild event (before the new arrow carts upgrade) but we had to play until about 2 am (thursday evening not during holidays) and fist get the rest of the map to get it done. When we got it at least 5 guild members got their world completion finished all at once. (And it costs us a ton of siege to pull it off as well)

Trust me that 1 % left in a keep like this can take you way longer to get than the whole 95% of the rest of the PVE maps… why? because you can always go there and get all those points in PVE (ok some are bugged from time to time and you need to complete an event for some, but you can even guest for that). In WvW guesting is not possible. Transfering cost a lot of gold as you also need to transfer back again, to continue playing with your guild mates and friends. And some points are inside structures that have to be taken over first to get them.

If your last point is inside a keep like the vista in the green eternal battle grounds keep you are so unlucky as there is almost no way to get it without taking the keep (with towers you can run in while the third server has just broken down the door, but with this vista that usually is no option because you need to jump up there as well, which is not the most easy thing to do specially if you do it for the first time. So either the defenders or the attackers will come after you soon and kill you.

And if your server and or guild is unable to take the point at any time that you can play……. well You are just stuck then.

Color rotations would indeed Really Really help for this specially now that the reset comes at about prime time for most players on Friday. Next to that its also a lot easier to get a group together and take the keep that is right in front of your spawn than that you can take one that is on the other side of the map.

I’m from FoW and we actually lost a lot of players who changed servers just because of this world completion issue, while we were able to get hold of all point usually around at least once a week during a late night battle and the following early morning we would still have them until the other server woke up and took it all back. So you could get the point during early morning or late night time, but still we lost lots of players….. i don’t want to know how this affected the vabbi community who have an even harder time to get all the structures in WvW…. (as far as i remember i did not see vabbi own the eternal green keep since vabbi became red… and that was last year already… (with one week of blue in between)

I don’t know how it is in other rank servers as i don’t play there, but i can imagine that with an large zerg before the recent arrow cart update you could manage to get a hold of it…….

So yes to color changes, the sooner the better to help fix this world completion problem and stop players from leaving just to get their world completion.

That’s what makes your legendary even more special. Your guild can never always be there, it’s your duty to bond with other pvp players and get the crowd moving. That’s how it was in Ferguson’s Crossing all the time.

Back in September I had 1 and a half PvE zones to complete and all of wvw so entered the borderlands for the first time since my mate had dragged me kicking and screaming as an uplevelled to show me what fun it could be (I died lots, it wasnt fun). I started wondering aimlessly around getting vistas and pois and then saw people were sieging the starter tower. I joined in to get the poi and had an alright time. 3 months later I realised I’d never actually finished those PvE zones because I had become so hooked on the wvw side of the game.

Now I rarely ever go into PVE. I feel bitter that without crafting the best way to level my alts is to drag myself through the tedious grind of heart quests in the starter zones until I can get enough utilities to make wvw karma training plausible.

In short, I’m grateful for world completion in wvw. Without it I’d probably never have given it a chance and would have given up with the game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think you should change the title of this thread to “I want World Completion to not be challenging”.

There’s nothing challenging about getting WvW part of world completion. It never was. You either are on the right server, and you get PoI’s/Vistas easily, or you are on a wrong one, and you just don’t get them at all, and have to wait.

Handin.4032:

Sinaya.4201:

I’m deeply shocked and appalled about the general hostility within this part of the community.

I’ll be happy to let this thread die at this point. I got my concern for other players across, got my Staff answer, and opened my eyes a bit about how little I have in common with many fellow WvW players.

Hope to see you on the battlefield.

There has been no hostility, just people showing you the OTHER side of these arguments. Often enough people who do PvE forget that their arguments go both ways. So, don’t try to put all this off as hostility. There’s been no name calling, etc…just showing you how your argument is flawed, and pointing out the flaws and our reasoning.

The flaws, actually, were in the WvW’s side of reasoning. Mainly, in the part where WvW players silently assume that PvE players have any problems agains there being WvW-only way to legendaries.
I, for one, find it entirely reasonable that WvW players should be able to get their own equivalent of “world completion” – an alternative to Gift of Exploration, that can be acquired through purely WvW gameplay.
I don’t see however any WvW players asking for that – what i see is people trying to use an example of poor game design to justify even more of it. Not because it helps them in any way, but because it would hurt others. Which, i’d say, fits well under “general hostility” tag.

Sinaya.4201:

What would a WvW’er have to do PvE for other than… well, I can’t think of anything other than a Legendary or Back Items honestly. Ascended Trinkets (Except for back items) are available via Laurels, which are available to every play style. (Even sPvP) All of the armor and weapon stat combinations are available via Badges of Honor. Unless you’re looking for a specific Skin or something, the WvW-shouldn’t-have-to-PvE argument doesn’t really stand up.

Laurels have only been available to WvWers for 1 week. I am not even sure that you can always complete the daily in WvW either, although it seems like it.

Exotic accessories are only available in the PVT combination in WvW. There are also runes that can only be attained with dungeon tokens.

Additionally, it is ridiculous to expect WvWers to attain ascended gear through laurels alone, when PVErs have laurels, fractals, and guild missions at their disposal as viable avenues.

Astralporing.1957:

There’s nothing challenging about getting WvW part of world completion. It never was. You either are on the right server, and you get PoI’s/Vistas easily, or you are on a wrong one, and you just don’t get them at all, and have to wait.

You either have it good or you have it bad. Sucks doesn’t it. If there’s nothing challenging about wvww world completion then why do people have to “wait”? They wait because they want it to be handed to them. It’s not impossible to take over that tower or even harder, SM or Keep. It’s how you have your mindset on wvwvw. You’re fighting against players, not NPCs. So a group of 5 cannot go and complete the quest of World Completion. If you’re making a legendary, and you don’t want anything to do with pvp, dont care about it, then why don’t you just use gold to transfer to a more prominent server and transfer back? Surely someone who’s making their legendary have gold or the time to make gold to spend on this journey of world completion?

But it’s whatever, Fortunately Anet stated that they’re going to do something about world completions in WvWvW for the pvers.

Astralporing.1957:

I, for one, find it entirely reasonable that WvW players should be able to get their own equivalent of “world completion” – an alternative to Gift of Exploration, that can be acquired through purely WvW gameplay.
I don’t see however any WvW players asking for that – what i see is people trying to use an example of poor game design to justify even more of it. Not because it helps them in any way, but because it would hurt others. Which, i’d say, fits well under “general hostility” tag.

So from this quote I can safely assume you’re not one of the many “WvW players”? We don’t ask for a separate world for world completion because it doesn’t work to our advantage. World completion doesn’t involve killing other players, so we don’t do it. Simple as that. General hostility? nah.. Perhaps you just get offended a little too easily. From what I’m seeing, you come to a wvwvw section, post your complaint, have an aura or belief that all wvwvw players are mean and haters, and then express your hardships of being a pve player (in a WvWvW section).

Some of us pvp players (not all) may look down on pve players, but it’s safe to say the feelings are vice versa.