Guild Wars 2

“Many skills, items, and traits were applying healing to an infinite amount of targets and have now been limited to 5 targets.”

Ouchies, wonder how this will affect W3.

Yes now unskilled players cant turtle.

Surprised. I can see why they did it, but as most healing is rather small per individual i’d have expected a higher cap, maybe 10.

Arg… and I just respecced as a healing shout warrior. -_-

Katsumoto.9452:

Surprised. I can see why they did it, but as most healing is rather small per individual i’d have expected a higher cap, maybe 10.

Agreed. My aoe shouts only heal for about 1.5k. 5 cap seems pretty low.

aleran.2018:

My aoe shouts only heal for about 1.5k. 5 cap seems pretty low.

Agreed. Disappointing.

I crafted cleric jewelery and now those crappy shouts only heal 5. Gotta love these nerfs which makes your exotic gear almost useless.

that would be ok if they fixed the buffs’ priorities, 99% of the time you heal/buff the wrong target (npc/pets/minions) , and some skills like orb of light require an ennemy target to cast so the healing part isn’t really about your “skill” but about chance

So what is the idea behind limiting healing to 5?

Was 5+ heal not working as intended?

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

It’s probably because of turtling, since AOE damage skills had a cap of 5 but healing aoes didnt have a cap, 10 is still a significant amount in turtling in WvW

Cat Amiss.9463:

It’s probably because of turtling, since AOE damage skills had a cap of 5 but healing aoes didnt have a cap, 10 is still a significant amount in turtling in WvW

Yeah, I think it’s just to provide parity – the AOE damage and ally buffs have the 5-person cap, now healing does also.

Yeah, the only other option would’ve been to put aoe heals at a set number and increase aoe damaging effects to same number, makes turtling a lot less effective which is nice

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

I’m excited to see this lame tactic eliminated. Hope this change does it.

I’d like to see the 5-cap get removed completely, for healing AND damage skills. No limit. If everyone wants to stand in a red circle, they should all get hit.

I want to launch a whole kitten zerg with my warrior stomp!

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again instead of yelling “FOR GREAT SHAKE IT ON MY MARK” and auto-attacking gates down.

Haldunius.7864:

I’m excited to see this lame tactic eliminated. Hope this change does it.

Why? So defenders can now trivialize the defense of towers/keeps with multiple seige weapons?

With a max limit of players in a map but no max limit on seige weaponry, it will boil down to who has the biggest arsenal of seige weaponry.

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again.

I don’t think you fully understand the situation, if you can’t get to the seige weapons, how do you kill them?

Every siege weapon has a counter, no matter where it is placed. If your enemy placed siege in a strategic location, so you’re supposed to either go to a more vulnerable area or figure out how to counter it.

Maybe you forgot you have Arrow Carts, Ballista, Catapults and Trebuchet at your disposal. Turtles didn’t need to do that after all; they just auto-attacked gates and won.

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again.

I don’t think you fully understand the situation, if you can’t get to the seige weapons, how do you kill them?

May I suggest a well placed ballista, trebuchet or catapult to fix this situation?

Hrist.8972:

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again.

I don’t think you fully understand the situation, if you can’t get to the seige weapons, how do you kill them?

May I suggest a well placed ballista, trebuchet or catapult to fix this situation?

Again, if a zone is controlled by alot of seige wepons it won’t matter where you place anything, you will be ethier treb’d, carted, ballisted or zerged.

If your zerg cannot turtle up a bottle neck which in most cases is almost every keeps design, how are you suppose to counter that?

You can’t, stop pretending there is some magical location to set up seige weapons that turn a fight, because there is locations in keeps that Seige weapons cannot access from outside, but can be controlled fortified near on invinciable on the inside.

Saying give up and go to another area is out of the question if there is only 1 or 2 areas left which may very well be a keep is not an option.

I see this becoming a serious issue when it could only take 6 – 7 people to lock down a zerg of 50 people into a bottleneck.

It’s funny how you think the keeps are entitled to you already when you set out to assault them. This is how it should be, keeps shouldn’t be easy targets.

Raksha.8049:

Again, if a zone is controlled by alot of seige wepons it won’t matter where you place anything, you will be ethier treb’d, carted, ballisted or zerged.

If your zerg cannot turtle up a bottle neck which in most cases is almost every keeps design, how are you suppose to counter that?

You can’t, stop pretending there is some magical location to set up seige weapons that turn a fight, because there is locations in keeps that Seige weapons cannot access from outside, but can be controlled fortified near on invinciable on the inside.

Saying give up and go to another area is out of the question if there is only 1 or 2 areas left which may very well be a keep is not an option.

I see this becoming a serious issue when it could only take 6 – 7 people to lock down a zerg of 50 people into a bottleneck.

An enemy Trebuchet takes time to turn. You can spike build one from a location it isn’t facing and kill it very quickly. A Trebuchet hits enemy siege for 18,000, so it takes only four shots if you have a skilled driver on it. Once you destroy their Trebuchet, it’s just a matter of picking off their siege inside.

Your enemies spent money and supply to set up siege in their Keep. Why shouldn’t you? Correct me if I’m wrong, but a Keep (or Tower) is supposed to offer advantages over defending from it.

And stop complaining about choke points. You also have a large arsenal of abilities at your disposal to move through them. Players can go Immune, Block, reduce damage via Boons, Teleport, Portal, Stealth, etc. You have an Endurance resource which allows you to Dodge, which is even more immunity.

Sorry, but you have to win with more than just spamming, “FOR GREAT SHAKE IT ON MY MARK!!!” I know, it’s crazy right?

Nokaru.7831:

Sorry, but you have to win with more than just spamming, “FOR GREAT SHAKE IT ON MY MARK!!!” I know, it’s crazy right?

It’s harder push 1, 2, 3 24/7.

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

lol wait wait…what? why would you try to go through a bottleneck as fast as you can

turtling isnt a strategy, its a way of avoiding game mechanics…real strategy would avoid dying to that stuff AND not require turtling…

its a good fix, you’re clearly relying on that “tactic” way too much

Hrist.8972:

It’s funny how you think the keeps are entitled to you already when you set out to assault them. This is how it should be, keeps shouldn’t be easy targets.

Not my point at all.

You should have a fighting chance.

Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.

If the AoE splash damage on bottle neck points inside a keep outweighs a organized and structured group of players, how is that working as intended?

Healing, was the only little bit of edge we had to push through this onslaught, and while you might loose 75% of your zerg smashing your faces on spalsh damage trying to take a keep, I can’t see it working like that anymore in bottle neck areas.

Raksha.8049:

Haldunius.7864:

I’m excited to see this lame tactic eliminated. Hope this change does it.

Why? So defenders can now trivialize the defense of towers/keeps with multiple seige weapons?

With a max limit of players in a map but no max limit on seige weaponry, it will boil down to who has the biggest arsenal of seige weaponry.

There is a limit to how much siege can be placed in an area, apart from the obvious budget of the placer. After a certain number, no more siege can be placed.

All siege engines also require someone to operate them, cant be carried around(except for the golems), cant be repaired and will despawn after a while.

Cat Amiss.9463:

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

lol wait wait…what? why would you try to go through a bottleneck as fast as you can

turtling isnt a strategy, its a way of avoiding game mechanics…real strategy would avoid dying to that stuff AND not require turtling…

its a good fix, you’re clearly relying on that “tactic” way too much

Hmm, I am starting to wonder how much leading of coordinated WvW you have contributed in.

With your statement, you haven’t seen the bottle neck issues that every keep has due to the design of them. At these points, it took sheer zerg power to push through + what ever healing people could supply.

Now, with this change, I can’t see it happening unless they limit the amount of seige weapons allowed to be deployed inside a keep.

Nidhogg.2950:

Raksha.8049:

Haldunius.7864:

I’m excited to see this lame tactic eliminated. Hope this change does it.

Why? So defenders can now trivialize the defense of towers/keeps with multiple seige weapons?

With a max limit of players in a map but no max limit on seige weaponry, it will boil down to who has the biggest arsenal of seige weaponry.

There is a limit to how much siege can be placed in an area, apart from the obvious budget of the placer. After a certain number, no more siege can be placed.

All siege engines also require someone to operate them, cant be carried around(except for the golems), cant be repaired and will despawn after a while.

Only trebs, which do not work in the bottle necks unless you have a spotter.

I haven’t seen a cap on how much seige can be placed in an area yet and again, further supports my point in regards to how much splash damage can be output from them in bottleneck points at key areas that we needed alot of healing potential to push through.

Steadfast.5827:

Yeah they just took all the skill out of this game today. So enjoy cheering, but now its only about who has more numbers. Tactics no longer matters. Thanks A-net… Casual players are taking over another MMORPG

Yeah that was massive tactic and organization, awesome. Goodbye turtles.

Raksha.8049:

Hrist.8972:

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again.

I don’t think you fully understand the situation, if you can’t get to the seige weapons, how do you kill them?

May I suggest a well placed ballista, trebuchet or catapult to fix this situation?

Again, if a zone is controlled by alot of seige wepons it won’t matter where you place anything, you will be ethier treb’d, carted, ballisted or zerged.

If your zerg cannot turtle up a bottle neck which in most cases is almost every keeps design, how are you suppose to counter that?

You can’t, stop pretending there is some magical location to set up seige weapons that turn a fight, because there is locations in keeps that Seige weapons cannot access from outside, but can be controlled fortified near on invinciable on the inside.

Saying give up and go to another area is out of the question if there is only 1 or 2 areas left which may very well be a keep is not an option.

I see this becoming a serious issue when it could only take 6 – 7 people to lock down a zerg of 50 people into a bottleneck.

Your asking that victory should be attainable in every posibile situation but that is impossible. For one side to win, the other has to lose therefor one sure-win tactic would work.

If the enemy is holed up in an impenetrable one-entry fortress bristling with siege and manned by bloodthirsty warriors there is a very handy strategy. Place your siege around the only entrance, set a few lads on it and make sure your enemy stays where he is while you either go capture something else, go to another battleground or even go to make a cup of coffee.

Time will wear away at your enemies resolve, few people have the patience for extended defense against an enemy that just wont attack. Especially if in the meantime all else is getting taken.

If you already got everything else and its the last stronghold, all other battlegrounds are yours and you just need this last enemy foothold: sorry, your playing below your level and your server should move up a tier, or possible switch to a server where you face more enemies during your primetime.

There usually is a way to work against siege, counter siege, or small stealth groups going in.

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

I love the turtle crying you know how you countered it before? Siege…

Nidhogg.2950:

Raksha.8049:

Hrist.8972:

Raksha.8049:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

That healing was sometimes required due to the amount of seige weapons that plastered you.

Now, this removes all hope if trying to turtle your way up a corridor, bridge or bottle neck area where seige weapons are smashing you down.

You know what you do about siege weapons? You either avoid them or destroy them. You don’t heal through them.

Sorry for not having any sympathy with this nerf, but limitless healing was being abused on a ridiculous scale. Maybe now you will remember the sting of Arrow Carts barrages again.

I don’t think you fully understand the situation, if you can’t get to the seige weapons, how do you kill them?

May I suggest a well placed ballista, trebuchet or catapult to fix this situation?

Again, if a zone is controlled by alot of seige wepons it won’t matter where you place anything, you will be ethier treb’d, carted, ballisted or zerged.

If your zerg cannot turtle up a bottle neck which in most cases is almost every keeps design, how are you suppose to counter that?

You can’t, stop pretending there is some magical location to set up seige weapons that turn a fight, because there is locations in keeps that Seige weapons cannot access from outside, but can be controlled fortified near on invinciable on the inside.

Saying give up and go to another area is out of the question if there is only 1 or 2 areas left which may very well be a keep is not an option.

I see this becoming a serious issue when it could only take 6 – 7 people to lock down a zerg of 50 people into a bottleneck.

Your asking that victory should be attainable in every posibile situation but that is impossible. For one side to win, the other has to lose therefor one sure-win tactic would work.

If the enemy is holed up in an impenetrable one-entry fortress bristling with siege and manned by bloodthirsty warriors there is a very handy strategy. Place your siege around the only entrance, set a few lads on it and make sure your enemy stays where he is while you either go capture something else, go to another battleground or even go to make a cup of coffee.

Time will wear away at your enemies resolve, few people have the patience for extended defense against an enemy that just wont attack. Especially if in the meantime all else is getting taken.

If you already got everything else and its the last stronghold, all other battlegrounds are yours and you just need this last enemy foothold: sorry, your playing below your level and your server should move up a tier, or possible switch to a server where you face more enemies during your primetime.

There usually is a way to work against siege, counter siege, or small stealth groups going in.

No, I am asking that stratergy play a part in overcoming AoE splash damage from seige weapons.

Again, you all seem to be missing the point.

Borderlands can ONLY house a capped number of people.

If that entire borderlands population can be trivialized by choke points due to now not having enough healing to push past the splash area, whats the point?

Alsonia.4753:

Nokaru.7831:

Raksha.8049:

If I wanted to play a 5 player game, I would do nothing but dungeon runs.

Slowly but surely, WvW is getting effected by these changes.

Yeah well, my AoE only hits 5 players per hit in a Turtle, while their Warriors were healing everyone for 1500+. This change was needed.

Blame the Turtles. Let’s see how strong their shell is now without their healing abuse.

I love the turtle crying you know how you countered it before? Siege…

I never lead out zergs in a turtle style, I despised it.

Read the posts before assuming you know what you are talking about.

When you experience this issue, you won’t be here flaming or trolling us, I know that much.

Guy’s there are tactics to beat turtles just need to change up from mindless zerging and the current meta, seems each week there is new tactic that everyone hates and wants removed or changed so its useless.

Guy’s we don’t want easy mode and have faith in Anet to slowly polish WvW into real tactical pvp world. Anet built GW1 into one hell of PvP game and in my eyes they doing same here it just takes time.

Raksha.8049:

Nidhogg.2950:

Raksha.8049:

Haldunius.7864:

I’m excited to see this lame tactic eliminated. Hope this change does it.

Why? So defenders can now trivialize the defense of towers/keeps with multiple seige weapons?

With a max limit of players in a map but no max limit on seige weaponry, it will boil down to who has the biggest arsenal of seige weaponry.

There is a limit to how much siege can be placed in an area, apart from the obvious budget of the placer. After a certain number, no more siege can be placed.

All siege engines also require someone to operate them, cant be carried around(except for the golems), cant be repaired and will despawn after a while.

Only trebs, which do not work in the bottle necks unless you have a spotter.

I haven’t seen a cap on how much seige can be placed in an area yet and again, further supports my point in regards to how much splash damage can be output from them in bottleneck points at key areas that we needed alot of healing potential to push through.

There is a limit on that, Ive often encountered it. I dont know how it calculates it exactly.

But….

For the purpose of your argument, the limit of placeable siege allows for more then enough firepower to cut down any invading force(provided all sieges are manned by people that know how to use them).

Raksha.8049:

Hrist.8972:

It’s funny how you think the keeps are entitled to you already when you set out to assault them. This is how it should be, keeps shouldn’t be easy targets.

Not my point at all.

You should have a fighting chance.

Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.

If the AoE splash damage on bottle neck points inside a keep outweighs a organized and structured group of players, how is that working as intended?

Healing, was the only little bit of edge we had to push through this onslaught, and while you might loose 75% of your zerg smashing your faces on spalsh damage trying to take a keep, I can’t see it working like that anymore in bottle neck areas.

Create two pressure points on the keep, rather than just one. It’s your own fault if you accept that bottleneck, there’s more than one way to outer and inner keep.

does this mean guardian f2 is now ruined?

Hrist.8972:

Raksha.8049:

Hrist.8972:

It’s funny how you think the keeps are entitled to you already when you set out to assault them. This is how it should be, keeps shouldn’t be easy targets.

Not my point at all.

You should have a fighting chance.

Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.

If the AoE splash damage on bottle neck points inside a keep outweighs a organized and structured group of players, how is that working as intended?

Healing, was the only little bit of edge we had to push through this onslaught, and while you might loose 75% of your zerg smashing your faces on spalsh damage trying to take a keep, I can’t see it working like that anymore in bottle neck areas.

Create two pressure points on the keep, rather than just one. It’s your own fault if you accept that bottleneck, there’s more than one way to outer and inner keep.

Hills, one narrow corridor of death followed by the pit of despair if the sides are filled with siege as well. There are more chokepoints, but this is one of the toughest.

Now i wonder how players will suffer due to this 5target heals, because you cant choose who you are healing/buffing: players, pets, summons, illusions, friendly NPCs? While it may be a solution in WvW to counter “turtling” tactic, it will ruin players’ experience in other parts of the game.

Nidhogg.2950:

Hrist.8972:

Raksha.8049:

Hrist.8972:

It’s funny how you think the keeps are entitled to you already when you set out to assault them. This is how it should be, keeps shouldn’t be easy targets.

Not my point at all.

You should have a fighting chance.

Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.

If the AoE splash damage on bottle neck points inside a keep outweighs a organized and structured group of players, how is that working as intended?

Healing, was the only little bit of edge we had to push through this onslaught, and while you might loose 75% of your zerg smashing your faces on spalsh damage trying to take a keep, I can’t see it working like that anymore in bottle neck areas.

Create two pressure points on the keep, rather than just one. It’s your own fault if you accept that bottleneck, there’s more than one way to outer and inner keep.

Hills, one narrow corridor of death followed by the pit of despair if the sides are filled with siege as well. There are more chokepoints, but this is one of the toughest.

What I meant is that you should try assaulting from the other inner gate too. This is seriously way too little used approach. If you have the manpower and outnumber the enemy greatly, but still find it hard to advance because of the chokepoint, why not send portion of the team to try penetrate from the other side? You have the option of making their outmanned team divide and if they don’t, well, you just got your keep.

Turtles were the IWAY of WvW. A way for a group of less skilled players and commanders to win against more skilled players. Playing the turtle is admitting you are not skilled enough to play something else. Complaining about the turtle is admitting you do not have the skill to defeat it.

PvP is a matter of individual skill. WvW should be a matter of individual skill + battle awareness + experience etc. Not about abusing a minor game mechanic.

I can’t believe what I’m reading at times.

“Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.”

No matter how much siege they might have, if you lead a team of 50+ and you cannot get past a group of 6-7 that’s just….sad. Don’t rush in arrow cart range … take them down. There are always ways to do it. Attack in two different spots or lay down your own siege – those 50+ players should have a lot of supplies, right ?

On SBI I’ve been part of hundreds of keep/tower takings. Some were plain brute force but some were beautifully skilled. Spike building ballistas to destroy trebs. Spike building catapults to to take down walls in 1 minutes. Sneaky ninja teams to take down gates unnoticed. Diversionary tactics to lure the enemy zerg out or to take down siege.

I remember once when we wanted to take the orb from a fortified and enemy Hills Keep with a big enemy zerg roaming. For 1 hour we had suicide squads going and clearing the siege on the walls. Then, when scouts spotted the enemy zerg somewhere around the northern camp, we launched the 6 golem, mesmer portalled rush to the now low sieged NW Hills gate. 10 minutes after we were in the lords room. We did not keep it for long, but boy, was it fun. That’s how siege is done.

Not by spamming auto attacks on the gate while stacking 40-50+ people.

Maybe now, those 40+ players will try to learn better ways to fight – ways that involve, moving, location, rolls, wise usage of skills, siege, and overall battle awareness.

vespers.1759:

does this mean guardian f2 is now ruined?

Yeah, I agree with the fields being nerfed but why nerf guardian’s class mechanic

Maybe now, those 40+ players will try to learn better ways to fight

… wouldn’t a tactic that resulted in victory be the “better way to fight”? Any tactic can lead to victory/defeat — it’s just some require better organization. Barbaric “zergs”, for example, are no less viable tactics than “turtles”, but guerrilla tactics (or even skirmishing) could very well defeat them both — it’s just more difficult to properly coordinate.

It is easier, however, to complain (or disagree) about the use of certain tactics, and that’s typically expected by a (gracelessly) defeated opponent. Imagine those, for example, that were defeated by the Romans using their own testudo (“tortoise”) formation — I’m sure they didn’t like losing, but they lost, and that’s all that mattered.

For the record… I dislike the use of turtle-formations myself, but mainly because I rather charge-in as a guardian. :-) I’ve encountered a fair share of these tactics, and without coordination, they are extremely difficult to counter — especially since people enjoy mindlessly shooting into a group (and dying) without thinking.

Great move I’d say. If AoE damage is limited to 5 then heals should be 5 too. It’s only fair that way. For siege, it requires cost of money/badges and supplies. And siege can be use by both attacker and defender. So it’s fair imo.

Telegraph.7509:

Cat Amiss.9463:

It’s probably because of turtling, since AOE damage skills had a cap of 5 but healing aoes didnt have a cap, 10 is still a significant amount in turtling in WvW

Yeah, I think it’s just to provide parity – the AOE damage and ally buffs have the 5-person cap, now healing does also.

Only problem with this logic, is that there are 10x more AoE damage skills than there are AoE heal skills. So having the exact same number of targets, reallly favors the aoe damage. Especially since many races, (ele, ranger, thief, engineer) have more than one AoE damage skill. But healing skills are mostly only 1 per bar.

@Frvwfr.4307
That’s not entirely true. For example, nacro staff skill 2 can heal also ele water atonement skill 4 and 5 if i’m not wrong. I’m sure other class will have those king of skill too. We have more damage then healing because we favor damage over healing. Healing output can also increase to the same level with damage by using trait line and healing power+ attribute if we desire to.

Frvwfr.4307:

Telegraph.7509:

Cat Amiss.9463:

It’s probably because of turtling, since AOE damage skills had a cap of 5 but healing aoes didnt have a cap, 10 is still a significant amount in turtling in WvW

Yeah, I think it’s just to provide parity – the AOE damage and ally buffs have the 5-person cap, now healing does also.

Only problem with this logic, is that there are 10x more AoE damage skills than there are AoE heal skills. So having the exact same number of targets, reallly favors the aoe damage. Especially since many races, (ele, ranger, thief, engineer) have more than one AoE damage skill. But healing skills are mostly only 1 per bar.

That’s a good point I hadn’t considered.