Guild Wars 2

All these complaining/whining berserker thieves can feel free to roll a berserker ranger if thieves are no good anymore.

Oh wait.

Seriously though, at least let things be tested out a bit before complaining and asking for buffs. Certain thieves will just have to pick their engagements more wisely than before, the real pro thieves probably won’t be too phased by this patch after a little practice.

Im actually really happy about this change….

Its not going to change anyone’s playstyle that actually played the thief and didnt just sit around Cnd’in groups of people just to do so..
MuG nerf doesnt suprise me..

But what really interest me is ..

Increased mobility..and sword buffs..and condition thief buffs.

It’s a nice compromise. Thief class has always been too forgiving, now Thieves actually have to play a little rather than spam Heartseeker and C&D when it doesn’t work.

It’s a sPvP disscussion i may have missed it but i never heard them mention WvW once,does this even affect WvW?

Not every thief out there abuses culling, this change won’t affect my playstyle at all.

This should not nerf the average Thief at all. It will work pretty much like it always has. Thieves stealth, then attack from stealth in most scenarios; this always gave us the Revealed debuff at any rate, so what’s nerfed? The only difference is that you can’t let the stealth wear off, then re-stealth instantly. While this was a good survivability mechanic, that part I’m personally fine with, as we have plenty of other utilities that can help us survive for 4 seconds if we need to get away, and let’s be honest, it was a semi-OP get out of jail for free card to have as-is currently. It can definitely be countered, but it’s mainly Thief player that really knows how to counter a stealthing Thief player.

This nerfs the ability to throw down Veils in succession, through a small army of co-ordinated Mesmers, and that is a good thing in my book. I guess I should point out that I also play a Mesmer (and every other profession for that matter), not just Thief.

I’m happy to hear about this change, even though I understand that there will be a lot players that are on the other hand, not happy with it.

Anet finally realized that you can’t have a stealth this powerful in a game without detection counters to it. Early on in development they talked of not even having stealth (should have went that way), but then end up putting one of the most potent stealths of any game in recent memory in. Was a pretty WTF move.

So to fix it you can either make it less powerful or leave it but introduce new detection methods. The latter solution obviously requires more dev time and creating new mechanics and abilities, so they went with the easier solution.

Oh I know what will not be affected. 25/30/0/0/15 gc zerkers that run around blowing ppl in 2 seconds with googled combo. GG anet.

Esprit Dumort.3109:

It’s a nice compromise. Thief class has always been too forgiving, now Thieves actually have to play a little rather than spam Heartseeker and C&D when it doesn’t work.

You see theres a difference between HS spaming and CnD chaining. Stealth thieves do not spam HS and those who do fail at it.

In smaller fights and Spvp the revealed change won’t be that bad it will suck however in the bigger fights, as thieves don’t have the range other classes have, nor have the hp, tankyness, immunites or buffs the frontline have, so they now simply can go in once and run away, or stay and die, while before you could harrass in the backline, and chain a stealth to get that aggro off and go again.

Also if they do remove Mug in it’s current form they take a big part of the thief burst, while the burst perhaps could use a little damage nerf overall, removing a big part of the burst on a 36-45 sec cd, while mesmers engi wars etc can still spam for these amounts on aoe every 10 seconds at least is rather silly.

I thought the Devs would assume just culling fixing regarding stealth would be enough for now but seems they have given in to the Columba’s on the forum, enough people could and knew how to deal with it but instead they now choose that it’s not the enemy that has to deal with it but the thief simply has to decide to run now and not have any form of substain like other classes have.

Overall a bit dissapointing with these upcoming changes but let’s see how it is when it’s there.

Heh, does this mean Infiltrator’s Strike gets another free pass? I’ll laugh if Anet buffs it because you know…theres no distance limit on its shadow return.

Bads being dominated by thieves before nerfs, will be dominated by thieves after nerf. If not thieves, then the bads will turn their attention to some new class that aggravates them, because there always has to be a QQ class for bads.

You are totally right Niim

Great posts in this thread. I completely agree that this will have minimal impact for Thieves who have good timing and situational awareness.

Who knows, maybe it’ll help boot some of the players from the Thief class who fall into the HS-spammer-skill-tier, which might cut down on the Thief QQ threads.

Karolis.4261:

Oh I know what will not be affected. 25/30/0/0/15 gc zerkers that run around blowing ppl in 2 seconds with googled combo. GG anet.

they said, they want to look into mug and maybe rework it, cause it doesnt play well with the idea of stealth. and they know it does way too much dmg for a 10-trait.

There are some other stealth issues that will be helped by these changes that have nothing to do with combat strength. Stuff like a thief tying up an entire team post keep capture because of near permanent stealth builds, and you can’t stop searching for them or they go and rez their mez buddy and flip your keep back 5 or 10 minutes later.

Or even something like Dolyak hunting, you want to be able to give 1 or 2 defenders, which is a thankless job, an even chance to protect supplies without needing so many people around to AoE dump to kill them in one off blast. With reveal popping on any destealth, it will make it a bit easier to defend that immediate area around an escort.

What’s really going to be funny is when people realise that this nerf won’t do kitten to protect them from that burst rotation.

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

1 is ridiculous

2 and 3 would have to be applied across all classes, like the impending stealth change is.

Also, I am glad you are not in charge of class balance / mechanics.

Xirin.8593:

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

1 is ridiculous

2 and 3 would have to be applied across all classes, like the impending stealth change is.

The opposite is true.

1. Its ridiculous to get hit from a target you cannot see.
2. Its ridiculous that a downed thief in SR stays invisible for a gazillion seconds.
3. Its ridiculous to get stomped from a target you canot see.

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

teg.1340:

The opposite is true.

1. Its ridiculous to get hit from a target you cannot see.
2. Its ridiculous that a downed thief in SR stays invisible for a gazillion seconds.
3. Its ridiculous to get stomped from a target you canot see.

Ah, okay, I see now. You’re just ranting. I thought you might be like most of the other level-headed people who have thus far posted in this thread. Your post history should have tipped me off.

Carry on.

teg.1340:

Xirin.8593:

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

1 is ridiculous

2 and 3 would have to be applied across all classes, like the impending stealth change is.

The opposite is true.

1. Its ridiculous to get hit from a target you cannot see.
2. Its ridiculous that a downed thief in SR stays invisible for a gazillion seconds.
3. Its ridiculous to get stomped from a target you canot see.

1. If you cannot see them, then they are getting the reveal buff now anyways

2. The downed system in general is ridiculous, unbalanced and a major crutch of bads. If you cannot kill someone downed in a big red circle with a house above it, then the problem is yours.

3. What about haste, stability, bubbled, etc, etc. You know that very few attacks actually require a target and that them being stealthed does not change the fact that they are standing right there and hittable? Considering all the issues with the downed system, like the fact that they lose all their conditions when they go down, that they have a silly amount of health to whittle through, being stomped when stealthed is the least of my concerns.

I feel many people who role thief for the gimmicks like Mug and take advantage of culling and even worse, the D/P Perma stealth crap will move on to something else, bc they have no skill. My main is a thief, and I expected Mug to be nerfed a long time ago which caused me to try several other builds so I don’t depend on gimmicks. Personally I have more fun with my condition thief than my backstab thief. My guild leader has always used a S/D build that heals him as he attacks and every patch so far has made him stronger. This one is no exception. He is going to have a field day with these new changes. lol

Soon.5240:

Chainspell.5697:

Ironvos.9014:

wish.3102:

Ironvos.9014:

If this does indeed happen and thieves start dropping dead everywhere cause they can’t chainstealth and can’t abuse culling anymore, i sure hope they wait about 6 months aswell before buffing the thief

That sounds like a good way to lose whatever percentage of your player base plays THF.

It would give them time to L2P

You don’t understand, Thief and Mesmers are the pros of this game obviously the people who plays the other classes was the ones who needs to l2p. Now this nerf will make it so the pros would leave since the other classes are too noob and therefore lack any skills at all to play whatsoever.

LOL, Thief is a mindless build that takes no skill.

“LOL, P/D Thief is a mindless build that takes no skill.”

Fixed…..

-PS: I wanna see you pull off S/D or S/P, buster.

Eles can use mist form to stomp, engineers can go tiny and be completely untouchable to stomp, warriors and guardians can use stability to stomp. All of these are more powerful than invisible stomping.

Anyway, this isn’t going to fix the problem the whiners have with thieves. Want to know what’s going to happen now? Instead of relying on stealth to stay in a fight, every thief is simply going to run full out damage spec (which most don’t actually do right now) with shadow refugee. Fights against thieves are going to go like this: Thief uses Baskilisk venom and hits you from behind while you’re not looking then burns their burst cycle of CnD and backstab and then wastes all initiative on heartseeker. If at any point the person they are fighting stun breaks and moves away, they will drop shadow refugee and just leave. If the person they are fighting does not die, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If someone else shows up mid fight, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If anything at all happens that is not exactly as the the thief wants, they will drop shadow refugee and leave.

Do you all really think this is going to be better than having someone who will give you at least a chance to fight back even though theyre invisible 75% of it? It’s really not, this will be worse than before. Have you ever been hit by a true glass cannon thiefs skills? I do this once in awhile now, and I’ve dealt bunker classes damage of 25k+ in about 3 seconds. But anyway, if you hated thief before when theyd stay around to fight and wouldnt just crap on you in 3 seconds and kill you, just wait, cause it’s about to get a lot worse.

The only other option available to them is the sword/dagger perma stun lock build, I can’t wait to see the complaints about this one.

wish.3102:

Anyway, this isn’t going to fix the problem the whiners have with thieves. Want to know what’s going to happen now? Instead of relying on stealth to stay in a fight, every thief is simply going to run full out damage spec (which most don’t actually do right now) with shadow refugee. Fights against thieves are going to go like this: Thief uses Baskilisk venom and hits you from behind while you’re not looking then burns their burst cycle of CnD and backstab and then wastes all initiative on heartseeker. If at any point the person they are fighting stun breaks and moves away, they will drop shadow refugee and just leave. If the person they are fighting does not die, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If someone else shows up mid fight, they will drop shadow refugee and leave. If anything at all happens that is not exactly as the the thief wants, they will drop shadow refugee and leave.

OMG I beg you, NO!
Just reading this it’s revolting. This is the dead thief breviary.

Nuvo.5014:

Any1 know if this will affect the Mesmer Stealth

Prolly but even then… We don’t can’t really stack stealth anyways… sooo meh.

Anatolian Turk.4057:

why not remove stealth from the game completely? Thief’s are the only class who has been nerfed so much since launch to the point that now they became a joke. Well with this nerf, i would end my days in gw2 for good. RIP Thieves. RIP GW2

yea, engineers didn’t get nerfed

iorlas.6721:

It’s a sPvP disscussion i may have missed it but i never heard them mention WvW once,does this even affect WvW?

This.

When I see the notes I’ll believe it effects WvW.

But right now? Yet another thread about how much people hate thieves.

I give it a few hours before it derails and gets shut down.

Like groundhog day.

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

Are you referring to caltrops and sb 4? if so I agree… IF the thief does any form of damage SB 4 or Caltrops.. Stealth should break.

Hmmh, a bit boring. This does damage my s/d build. Means I need to buy my thief new gear and just spec for glass cannon or nooby, completly broken troll build p/d. My mesmer benefits from this though, as skilled, semi-tanky stealth specced thieves were strong opponents against my build. Well, p/d ones still are.

This nerfs only affects cloack and dagger and some zerg builds that used veil to mantain stealth. Mesmer should never use stealth repeatetly anyway, so it’s not an issue for us.

ps. Its a shame to see that Anet balances according to noob-skill level. All good players know that apart from p/d build, thief is fairly balanced in high-skill level fights.

jportell.2197:

teg.1340:

They are also mentioning a possible nerf to Mug damage.

The proposed change to revealed is fine, but IMO revealed debuff should also be applied:

1. when thief uses any damage skill
2. when thief get downed
3. when thief use stomp

Are you referring to caltrops and sb 4? if so I agree… IF the thief does any form of damage SB 4 or Caltrops.. Stealth should break.

Agree with this.
1. when they do damage (not use a damage skill)
2. not needed
3. no, this would just be stupid.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Hmmh, a bit boring. Means I need to buy my thief new gear and just spec for glass cannon or p/d then. My mesmer benefits from this though, as skilled thieves were the only counters for my build. :P Well, p/d ones still are.

Skilled thieves don’t need to chain stealth, sry you’ll still have problems with us. :-P

That’s pretty much one of the few changes I’d have requested. Stealth has always been hard to tamper with.

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

LionZero.3479:

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

yes, that’s correct.

LionZero.3479:

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

Speaking of mesmers, when are all of us thieves going to get together and make 5000 threads talking about how clones are unfair because we can’t tell where the mesmer is, and it gives them an unfair advantage, and complain til clones are taken away? After that I say we should team up and go after guardians and rangers and their super protection buffs.

Adaneshade.2409:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Hmmh, a bit boring. Means I need to buy my thief new gear and just spec for glass cannon or p/d then. My mesmer benefits from this though, as skilled thieves were the only counters for my build. :P Well, p/d ones still are.

Skilled thieves don’t need to chain stealth, sry you’ll still have problems with us. :-P

Yes they do when they fight against me. :P Now I can just dodge / pop invulnerabilities / whatever until you get that revealed debuff, and then burst you down.
Of course I still don’t win against p/d, but then again, nobody does.

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

wish.3102:

LionZero.3479:

If one of your Illusions does damage then i also want your mes to be revealed out of stealth, it’s the same logic you apply on choking gas and caltrops as both are indirect damage.

Speaking of mesmers, when are all of us thieves going to get together and make 5000 threads talking about how clones are unfair because we can’t tell where the mesmer is, and it gives them an unfair advantage, and complain til clones are taken away? After that I say we should team up and go after guardians and rangers and their super protection buffs.

Thieves act in a different way. We will silent adapt any situation and achieve our goal, no matter what.

All I have to say is YAY!

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

I would just like to point out that the perma stealth thief who fights groups of enemies is far more skilled than the guy who simply 1 shots 1-2 guys then hides and waits for all his cooldowns to come back.

The only Thieves this is going to effect are the QQers who re-rolled Thief. I’ll take my higher mobility and boon hate and be happy to add Eles and Guards to the “easy out” list.

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same. This game is noob friendly beyond belief. I quess the carebears are better customers when it comes to the Item Mall.

I still think that stealth doesnt’ bring that much to the game, noticely in WvW, this is still the same : a rogue hides and backstabs you, you escape or not anyway he dies most of the time 30sec after so both loose some coins on repair and that’s it.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same.

They said they were going to re-work Mug as well. It probably will be replaced with the boon hate mechanic or turned into some sort of synergy instead of raw damage. It will be a nerf to that combo.

Stiv.1820:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Karolis.4261:

Cirax.9231:

This is a good change that won’t impact good thieves, and only the bad ones that rely on chain stealthing (repeated CnD on PvE mobs, blackpowder/HS spam).

So tahts what I said, this wont impact GC zerker 1 combo kill builds ( which you are refering as to “skilled thiefs”), but will fk up stealth builds that relly on CnD or Black powder/hs combo to survive till their next opening who are completally skilless compared to google copied gc zerker 1 combo thiefs. Yea, thats about it.

Yah, this. This nerf only touches the skill based builds, but the gimmicky instagib crap remains the same.

They said they were going to re-work Mug as well. It probably will be replaced with the boon hate mechanic or turned into some sort of synergy instead of raw damage. It will be a nerf to that combo.

Then everyone just rolls a p/d (I certainly will), which is currently by far, the most broken build in the game.

Anyone complaining about this is a bad thief. End of story. What is it that all of you told everyone else? Oh that right, now you can go roll whatever class you can’t beat and learn to play. You abused this terribly broken mechanic for far too long. Get over it and L2P.

The good thieves won’t care at all about this.

So how exactly is this a nerf? You just won’t be able to chain stealth anymore.

Only affects mass PvP where you chain multiple veils.