Guild Wars 2

How come I died so much quickly as Bear than in regular shape?

I’m a Norn Warrior and whenever I switch to Bear form not only I loose my utility skills but also I recieve more damage, loose all my regens and mitigation and my HP Pool (even thou its bigger) drops considerably faster…

If Norn Racial transformation are as useless as they are, and just there for cosmetic,… can ANet please move them to Social Clothing instead of elite skill and let us have fun with them?

Also, all Norn NPC transforming and charging into battle (during personal quests and promotional videos) are nothing but false advertising.- you have worst dps, worst mitigation, worst movement,… you get a bigger clumsy weaker form and die almost instantly as you use it…. having it in an elite slot is a huge trap!

Oh man, thanks for the warning! I was so excited to turn into a bear and wreck my foes, but I’ll put my points elsewhere.

try wolf form… its actually very good

I really enjoy bear form. What were you fighting? I’ve had no trouble using bear form solo against Veteran mobs, or anything else I might solo. I even use it in big group fights against champion mobs in events, and have never died, or had to worry about my health. It’s a little sketchy in dungeons, but I’ve used it vs a solo dungeon silver/gold non-boss effectively, as well.

If you’re going in expecting to do more than you can in your normal form, maybe that’s not a great idea. I certainly wouldn’t call the forms useless, though.

The shape shifting was pretty emasculated in GW2. It was originally important & purposeful, now it’s barely mentioned in the Norn Culture, it’s useless as an elite & makes all Norn look exactly the same.

Super disappointing.

Wolf has self-healing (good because the forms block your 6-0 skills), and two nice interrupts, grants Fury and Regeneration, and inflicts bleeds. It’s probably the best fighting form. You can’t move while using the 1 skill.

Bear has one interrupt, Might, and boosts your HP. Mostly, however, it just looks impressive.

Raven has two interrupts, and some movement altering abilities.

Snow Leopard has a weakness granting debuff (nice for reducing incoming damage), can cripple, and can move while using the 1 skill. The real power is in its stealth ability, which is huge in some areas in PvE. Stealth will (almost) instantly drop aggro of any mob on you, and makes it much easier to get past a group of mobs to reach a skill point or point of interest.

I got Wolf just for fun, and beacuse it is my guardian spirit, but it is almost useles… I prefer to keep my utilities skills…. but Leopard has some nice advantages, stealth is great for PvE.

Malorg.1846:

I really enjoy bear form. What were you fighting? I’ve had no trouble using bear form solo against Veteran mobs, or anything else I might solo. I even use it in big group fights against champion mobs in events, and have never died, or had to worry about my health. It’s a little sketchy in dungeons, but I’ve used it vs a solo dungeon silver/gold non-boss effectively, as well.

Im a lvl 80 warrior with mace, shield, 30 defense 30 tactics and I can solo veterans plus 3 to 4 mobs my own lvl. I rarely get killed in PVE; but whenever I see my health poll dropping at, lets say, a 5% per second rate because I have many conditions/mobs on me and pop the bear form, it automatically starts droping at a 10%-15% per second.

Malorg.1846:

If you’re going in expecting to do more than you can in your normal form, maybe that’s not a great idea. I certainly wouldn’t call the forms useless, though.

Of course I expected it to be better than what I can regularly do. It’s an elite skill that removes everything I can do for a new set of skills (and no utility or healng skills) with short duration and looong cooldown. It would be wrong to expect otherwise.

Point is, the skill is not raising my stats but giving me a fixed set of stats weaker than myself. For that, it’s useless.

I just use the forms for fun and if I really need my elite I swap to my profession skill. My biggest gripe is that they aren’t unstoppable like Orrion Brutes. It’s so pathetic when your form spends most of it’s 30 seconds being knocked around by KD/KB.

Last night in an explorable dungeon, wolf form did last longer in a swarm of ghosts tanking than anyone else in the team though, he would have killed a few if they didn’t knock him around.

Bear form is purely for mauling something
Go fast hit em hard and keep on going
The MINUTE you decide to second guess consider yourself dead.

How do I get bear form? I chose bear at character creation and now lvl 43 and just realised I haven’t got it!

MaceUK.4589:

How do I get bear form? I chose bear at character creation and now lvl 43 and just realised I haven’t got it!

It’s an elite skill. Bear, Wolf, and Raven cost 10 skill points, and Snow Leopard costs 30. The forms are not restricted to your biography choices, you can pick up and use all four of them if you so desire.

Thanks

After posting that I went back into the game and realised where it was. I was waiting for the yellow ‘down’ arrow to move me to the Elite skills and didn’t realise I could use them, doh!

I was an avid Ursan Blessing user in GW1, so I thought Bear Form would be equally as formible.

Let’s just say there is many a GW1 boss who went home with Bear Scratches and headaches.

Pretty much, for 60 seconds, I was unstoppable with Ursan Blessing.
Between the Clawing, the Knockdown and the High Health, they couldn’t do very much to me.

And that’s what I expected, only more so with Bear Form, since we’re not “borrowing” the blessing, we’re doing the actual transformation, which should be more powerful then simply “echoing” the power.

And also, 30 seconds is too short.

I fought the Veteran Shiny King, transformed right at the start of the fight and had to end the fight in my normal form.

In Guild Wars 1, I’ve seen Norn mantain the transform for much longer, maybe a minute, could even be 2 or 3.

In some circumstances, the transformation was permanent until they chose to transform back!

All the racial Elite Skills are intentionally weaker than the Class based Elites, the devs have said this before. They did this to provide less incentive for people to pick a race based solely on overly powerful racial abilities. They are fun skills but not game changers.

Really?
That’s disappointing.

I chose Norn because I liked their Lore, not because I wanted to be an Uber stomping werebeast.

That’s just a bonus!

But let’s be clear, these forms are powerful indeed and the game should reflect that.

I don’t want to turn into a Bear or whatever just for novelty value.
It should be practical to use, like the Norn equivalent of “emergency save move”.
I.E: You’re in a tough fight, invoke the Bear and finish your enemy fast.

I’m pretty sure my Bear form can take on hard enemies, but the DPS isn’t enough to do it quickly.
So the timer expires before I get a decent usage of it.

In contrast, the Asura Hazmat Golem suit, which is a similar transform doesn’t have a timer. At least, I didn’t see one.

Graven.9462:

All the racial Elite Skills are intentionally weaker than the Class based Elites, the devs have said this before. They did this to provide less incentive for people to pick a race based solely on overly powerful racial abilities. They are fun skills but not game changers.

This was already replied before. Even it is weaker than a regular skill it can’t be weaker than the same character without using it.

Character A > Character A (transformed).

This is the issue. While transformed you are weaker than normal. Its not a dps boost, its not a mitigation boost, its not a movility boost, its nothing special but the look.

I love useless lore skills, I even enjoyed my Shaman skills in Wow like water breathing, water walking, farsight, etc… but in this game sacrificing an elite slot just for the lore it’s a bit too much.

Id rather have it as a costume, leave my char stats and skills unmodified and just give me the bear look for 30 secs! that would be something better than what we have today.

I know some may say that they can Maul things but honestly,… lvl up, get some gear.. you will see what I’m talking about. Unless the transformations are just for elementalist wanting to melee for the lulz

Well I still kickkitten in bear form, there’s a nice might buff and the charge is hilarious, you get two knockback/downs. And your main attack hits pretty hard.

It’s not as powerful as Rampage As One (Ranger), but it’s still faster to kill a veteran than my normal skills by a slight margin and its loads of fun.

Rampage (the Warrior elite one) share the same problem as Bear… both are horrible in the way of boosting your character… I myself feel weaker and die so much easier using transformation skills that its kind of pointless… Only use is to showoff to newbies.

It’s frustrating how I spent 110 skills points in my Norn Warrior elite skills are the only one that its really elite is the banner… all the rest feels like a waste of skill points.

Is it bad that I only use my bear form to run fast at this point?

the Transforms need to make you 1.5x as powerful as your current stats

Or at least by pass bosses Defiant boon so we can push them or knock them now that we are “equal” size.

I mean anything that would justify sacrificing your character for!

Anet needs to allow us to use our utility skills while we are in bear form (or other transformations) Let us keep our buffs like bloodlust and masters bond, and let us keep our ranger pets active while in transformation!

Hi, Sorry for asking a very simple question, but I just dont have enough time to play this game yet

anyway, how can i go to animal form? Do i need to complete a specific story quest first??

thanks!

Eboz, once you reach level 30 you unlock your elite skill slot. At that point, you can choose one of the elite skills which you would like to unlock using skill points. After you unlock the skill, you are ready to use it. The “animal forms” are only available as elite skills to the Norn race.

Yea I dont get it either, why would I use an elite to become weaker? If the transform actually lasted as long as I liked maybe I could use it more.

I’m glad to see confirmation of the Bear Form weakness; I thought it might have been my imagination.

If the form must be weaker than our standard character, it would be nice to get something else to compensate us, like removing conditions, boost health regen — something else to encourage its use. Otherwise, it’s just a throwaway vanity skill.

I really hope they fix this soon,… as a Norn Warrior I only have one!!! out of 7!!! elite skills that is actually worth using and its a banner ¬¬

In GW1 it was all about elite skills! I feel under developed without having a real-elite elite-skill.

“Point is, the skill is not raising my stats but giving me a fixed set of stats weaker than myself. For that, it’s useless.”

Hmm, Mesket I’m not really sure that this is true?

I went through and tested all the forms for any statistical bonuses they provide and they are actually quite substantial.

I am a level 80 ranger with the following base stats:

Power: 1821
Precision: 1016
Toughness: 2019
Vitality: 920

Following are the stat bonuses that each of the forms provided to the above when used.

BEAR FORM

Power +674

Precision +0

Toughness +782

Vitality +2768

WOLF FORM

Power +1132

Precision +938

Toughness +782

Vitality +936

RAVEN FORM

Power +674

Precision +938

Toughness +782

Vitality +1852

SNOW LEOPARD FORM

Power +674

Precision +2770

Toughness +0

Vitality +936

As you can see the stat bonuses vary based on the form used, but in no case would I consider these bonuses in any way insubstantial and my stats are certainly not worse whilst in any of the forms.

The biggest issues I have with the shapeshift forms are the duration (I think it could afford to be significantly longer or have a MUCH shorter cooldown) and the fact that you lose access to your healing/utility skills for the duration. I think this second point is largely what contributes to the forms feeling weaker/being less effective. Due to losing access to these skills (6 through 9), using a Norn shapeshift ability is rarely even an equal trade and often tends to come out at a net loss in terms of effectiveness.

With some small tweaks I think the shapeshift abilities could be a lot more useful without being game breaking.

I really haven’t noticed any issues when I transform into bear form. Seem just fine. In fact one time I was nearly dead then went bear and beat the swarm of mobs that were on me and didn’t loss any additional health

I tried them and found no real use for them as an Eng my supply drop and mortar help me much more that those forms. I was very disappointed

Nepocrates.3642:

I tried them and found no real use for them as an Eng my supply drop and mortar help me much more that those forms. I was very disappointed

I only have a warrior high enough to use it. I have a couple of more Norn, but they are not that high yet to make the type of call you are referring to.
I would suspect that if you drop a turret before you change it would remain, but I think you are correct supply drops would no longer work while transformed.

The shapeshifting forms would be much more useful if they were immune to CC for their duration. Or even if each one had 1 CC immunity. Nothing is more lame than transforming, then getting continually knocked down while in bear form like I was a soccerball. It just puts the norn bear god to shame.

agree, i think all forms should have a signature ability that cant be removed.
Bear = stability
wolf = heal debuff.
raven = retaliation
snow leopard = frenzy (more damage take more)

edit : my norn is a guardian.

I use snow leopard for Wvw to stealth or bear to interupt/charge
In pve iv never found a use for any form, and here i thought they were for pve since they are DISABLED in pvp.

At the very least they need to reduce the cooldown if they don’t want to buff it.

In the other thread about Norn animal forms people have been complaining about the lack of mobility and utility skills, I think that is where the major problem lies, we loose our mobility which is a huge part of the game and we loose our utility/healing skills causing us to be weaker in the long haul. If what you say is true about gaining stats, it doesn’t feel like we actually gain them and that’s a problem. The elite skills should be for those “oh kitten” moments where we need something to save ourselves. My Flesh Golem is much more effective than my animal forms since it has high constant damage output and can knockdown, and on top of that it’s cooldown is under a minute if I use traits. almost every profession has at least one Elite that outshines the Norn animal forms by leaps and bounds.

aeonZgamer.5307:

the Transforms need to make you 1.5x as powerful as your current stats

It does boost your stats by a bunch. Look at your stats before and after and tell me they arent given a huge buff.

Because they are.

Wolf mode has been awesome for me as a thief. It gives a nice HP boost, increased crit chance, and the lifesteal on 1 and 2 make sustain a BREEZE on elite mobs for the entire duration its up. Plus it has the aoe crit shout, and leap for distance closing and a cone fear for cc. Its pretty awesome. Bear I have too and dont like as much, but it is beastly for the raw HP bonus it gives.

I just think the CD’s on the transform elites are a bit excessive to justify picking any of them. I’d like to see a 30 second up time followed by a 30-60 second down time. These skills ask us to sacrifice a lot for 30 seconds (utilities, any other elite, our traits) for what I consider a flavor skill. I think with a 240 down time they are relatively weak compared to the other races racial elites.

The first time I used my Bear elite is unforgettable., my friends were on Skype with me so I transformed and managed to stay knocked down and immobilized for almost all of it’s duration, it was shameful…I don’t even consider Bear Form an elite if I can’t get at least stability.

The only form I use on my Thief is Bear Form, and only sometimes. But I love it. It lets me be something else than my Thief due to the stat buffs, some kind of Tanky Beast with knockdowns and a charge.

And in WvW, going stealth and coming out as a Bear, then chasing down your foe with the charge and destroying them has to be quite an experience for the enemy.

My only concern about the forms as a norn ranger is that you can’t have pet out at the same time.

Yeah, Shapeshift i heard from many forums, my conclusion is thakittens better to be used when we play Ranger, have a pet fight with us then we go to form to attack melee, of course pet will disappear, i just use shape shift if i need to encounter melee. Thats better than Norn warrior or guardian, warrior should use signet of rage as elite and not shape form skill cuz signet of rage is kinda sick