Guild Wars 2

So let’s assume we know the origin story of the Sylvari (regarding Ronan, Ventari, and the Pale Tree). Despite this cute story, a lot of people have declared that we have too little information on how the Sylvari came into existence.

The Sylvari themselves believe that they were brought into existence by the world of Tyria to fight and kill the Elder Dragons. However, it’s possible that this belief has been heavily influenced by The Dream, which is given to them by Mother Tree, who was greatly influenced by Ventari’s Tablet.

I’ve heard one theory which places the Pale Tree as a champion of an unnamed Elder Dragon, with the Sylvari being the spawn of that champion, born with an inherent knowledge of the world to more easily kill the other races of Tyria. Somehow, the Tablet’s teachings may have transformed that purpose into one of killing the dragons. If this is the case, it is possible that the [SPOILER ALERT] other Sylvari (such as Malick) are pure dragonspawn and will become central enemies.

Can we start a thread of other ideas about the purpose of the Sylvari and their origin or future?

i have heavy doubts that a Sylvari is a dragon champion and that the Pale Tree is a champion because she has no ability to fight.
it takes her alot of energy to make a sword so fighting i have my doubts.
i hope their story won’t change to an evil side because its a pretty romantic story even though alot of people claim that they have a very fanatic lore in an innocent way

One of the secondary racial story arcs involves a sylvari who was not born from the pale tree. I havn’t run this one myself, but apparently there is another tree that makes sylvari, and it does not have a dream. I believe it’s the “Where life goes” choice.

First off, the dream is not something that was created or given to the sylvari by the pale tree, she even says so herself, she does not control the dream she is merely its caretaker and conduit. Secondly, I highly doubt that the pale tree is and elder dragon, I don’t see that fitting into the story very well. What would happen to our playable race later in the story?

Actually it does kinda fit, there are a variety of similarities. I still believe its more of a natural defense to Tyria and the Nightmare Court is more of something gone wrong.

However the Infinity Coil… Now I have not done the dungeon but I noticved when getting the POI’s that every point was related to a dragon(forgive my spelling), Black Zhaitan, Red, Primordus, White Jormag, Violet Kahlkratorak, Blue (unfinished so who knows), and then there was green. Undoubtedly they were all related to the dragons, so which dragon was green and full of plant life? Honestly the only thing that fits is Sylvari, and even more specific, the plant life there was not the norm for the Nightmare Court, not thorns or anything. Again, haven’t done the dungeon, I hope it explains things like that, what the inquest is doing with these places of power they have.

Rylla.8475:

One of the secondary racial story arcs involves a sylvari who was not born from the pale tree. I havn’t run this one myself, but apparently there is another tree that makes sylvari, and it does not have a dream. I believe it’s the “Where life goes” choice.

I can attest to this, I just completed that story arc on my sylvari. Very interesting. It does prove that somewhere out there (beyond the currently explorable bounds of Tyria) is another “pale tree”. The sylvari you discover from this other tree reveals that they do not share in a dream, and by extension do not suffer from nightmare court style rebels. Despite this he is morally quite aligned with the ideals of the dream and at the conclusion of the story arc leaves for his home tree both to hide its existence from the nightmare court and to try and rally his people to aid the pale tree in fighting the dragons.

jakep.9572:

theory which places the Pale Tree as a champion of an unnamed Elder Dragon

This “theory” seriously needs to die. :|

I really don’t think that the Pale Tree is any way connected to any of the Elder Dragons other than wanting to kill them and being immune to their corruption.

The Sylvari where made from a Elder Dragon what and how and maybe even when we do not know both the Asura and the Inquest have done test and looked into it tho.(even gone as far as dissecting them) They are the only Race that is resistant to the corruption of a elder dragon(only tho’s made/from/spawn/etc of another elder dragon have this trait)

The story around the unknown Sylvari is a big one not only does it confirm more then one tree it also plays into more then one lore behind each tree as the “dream” and the “nightmare” that haunts tarnished coast Sylvari.There is little info on the Nightmare to have the lore on where and how it manifested.

With such wide lore/story openings and the Maguuma falls Sylvari born without a dream and with free will that is another large topic that may come into play with a later chapter alongside the Tengu and other instances.And even alowing them to add other trees within the same story.

Without a solid post by the Devs tho this will most likely be debated but that’s doubtful as it would spoiler future plans and other subjects

The Sylvari where made from a Elder Dragon what and how and maybe even when we do not know

Except we don’t know this as fact, and people need to stop presenting it as such.

We could even go so far as to say their being immune to corruption could be because they’re plants. Or that they’re connected to the dream. Or because the Tree grew on top of a graveyard. Or because we’re just awesome like that.

We don’t -know- any of this. There is no proof of any point brought up with them being an Elder Dragon creation or even related to the Dragons in any way.

The top inquest and asura scientist in-game have proven it also the dream and graveyard are both illogical as there’s other sylvari city’s that have nether also proven in-game by both story and other NPCs.

The Inquest and asura are both highly interest in the sylvari for that reason and have been sence there awaking and even gone as far to prove there magical flow is related to that of a dragons magical energy and thus why the sylvari structure’s later near the end of the current chapter/story have been infused with asura magic and technology with little effort.

I would suggest going through and talking to NPCs across Inquest asure and sylvari zones and late game zones and gathering some of the lore given to us along with reading books/etc in said zones.

TheKow.7604:

The top inquest and asura scientist in-game have proven it also the dream and graveyard are both illogical as there’s other sylvari city’s that have nether also proven in-game by both story and other NPCs.

The Inquest and asura are both highly interest in the sylvari for that reason and have been sence there awaking and even gone as far to prove there magical flow is related to that of a dragons magical energy and thus why the sylvari structure’s later near the end of the current chapter/story have been infused with asura magic and technology with little effort.

I would suggest going through and talking to NPCs across Inquest asure and sylvari zones and late game zones and gathering some of the lore given to us along with reading books/etc in said zones.

It’s a -theory-. There is no proof. Anywhere.

And I was making a silly argument to poke fun at how silly the “Oh, the Sylvari are related to dragons we know this for sure” argument is.

I know you where but the silly argument isn’t the point the point is what the in-game NPC have said. last I checked a in-game NPC may as where be all the proof someone should need being created by the devs them self unless one of them got bored and did it just to mess with the players.

And being created by the dragons means nothing about being related as the Asura have found no Sylvari has even high or hair of being under any dragons impression. witch goes back to the Inquest theory on how old the race truly is as the seeds to form a pale tree could have been made long be for the waking the the current “evil” elder dragons or even made from the dragons from a outside event as far as we know there’s a cave full of magical seeds that spread across the world and created pale trees(such as the Maguum falls Sylvari that have nothing to do with the “Dream” and have free will)

so as it stands unless some who worked on the sylvari comments on the subject(witch other then in-game npcs probably wont happen as it would be a spoiler of all sorts of lore/story/future plans/etc)we can only gather what NPC in-game have said.

But we know that Asura often posit a theory as fact before fully testing it.

Maybe they read a magical signature as being similar to an Elder Dragon and all of a sudden “OMG SYLVARI ARE ELDER DRAGON SPAWN”. They don’t really need proof if they believe it’s true. They’ll keep trying to make it true. They jump to conclusions a -lot-.

If a Sylvari straight came out and said they were related to the Elder Dragons, then sure.

But Asura, when we know for a fact that they have been wrong, often, and jump to conclusions, often, and work without proof, often, I’m going to take that with a grain of salt.

The Inquest would no more on the subject as they gone as far as dissecting them but being hostile there’s not many you can talk to sadly and very little in-game objects to talk to from them.There magical signature tho is similar to the elder dragons and they are resistant to the dragons touch(as far as Zhatian goes)making them the only other being to resist it other then the already undead.(and the stone Dwarfs)

TheKow.7604:

The Inquest would no more on the subject as they gone as far as dissecting them but being hostile there’s not many you can talk to sadly and very little in-game objects to talk to from them.There magical signature tho is similar to the elder dragons and they are resistant to the dragons touch(as far as Zhatian goes)making them the only other being to resist it other then the already undead.(and the stone Dwarfs)

The Inquest would be even more suspect as they have no qualms about doing anything to achieve their ends. Up to and including misleading others to throw them off of their trail.

Just because the magical signature is similar though doesn’t mean they’re dragon spawn. It could just be similar magic involved.

Illushia.3721:

The Inquest would be even more suspect as they have no qualms about doing anything to achieve their ends. Up to and including misleading others to throw them off of their trail.

Just because the magical signature is similar though doesn’t mean they’re dragon spawn. It could just be similar magic involved.

That goes back to what I was saying the events and the magic used to create the seeds of the pale trees is unknown but its related to the Dragons magic be from a dragon its self or a outside source.

It’d be somewhat interesting(But at the same time cliche) if the dragons were some kind of corrupted guardian or something.

Glint was a corrupted dragon/guardian so it would fall under current lore
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glint

well, I meant like the Elder Dragons were corrupted Guardians of Tyria or something in a similar vein of how the Aspects of Warcraft were supposed to guard Azeroth. Not the same, but would probably end up being similar.

Maybe they were corrupted by the same force that creates the Nightmare in the Dream.

Yashimata.2986:

jakep.9572:

theory which places the Pale Tree as a champion of an unnamed Elder Dragon

This “theory” seriously needs to die. :|

Can’t agree more there! It really needs to die.

Like c’mon people, why would they let us play a race that’s going to be an enemy sooner or later? That will put all the other races of Tyria into a dilemma, do they have to kill all sylvari and all pale trees since there’s proof that they were breeds or offsprings of an ED?

So no.

I’ll give you guys a + if you change your theory that one particular pale tree was being manipulated and deceived (or is in the process), but saying sylvari as a whole and the pale trees are offspring or whatever of an ED or his minions can not and will never fly.

Just look at WoW, they have to create a huge lore to support why there are playable undead race – the Forsaken, a splintered group. The splintered sylvari group or a corrupted pale tree may fit, but never the current “theory”.

Sylvari cannot be corrupted by the Dragons, they simply die and rot away if they’re infected by it. That doesn’t sound like something an Elder dragon would want in his minions, I do suspect Sylvari emergence is linked to the Dragons. I like the idea of Tyria creating natural defenders, and hope they don’t deviate from that.

MotionBlue.9687:

Sylvari cannot be corrupted by the Dragons, they simply die and rot away if they’re infected by it. That doesn’t sound like something an Elder dragon would want in his minions, I do suspect Sylvari emergence is linked to the Dragons. I like the idea of Tyria creating natural defenders, and hope they don’t deviate from that.

This would be my ‘pet’ theory if I had one.

The timing seems convenient enough for this to be the case. The right people(Pale Tree) in the right place(Ventari’s Tablet, seed being planted in a safe place, etc), at the right time(Dragons rising) creating something beautiful~ in the form of the Sylvari.

Perfectly formed to combat the dragons and growing by the day.

MotionBlue.9687:

Sylvari cannot be corrupted by the Dragons, they simply die and rot away if they’re infected by it. That doesn’t sound like something an Elder dragon would want in his minions, I do suspect Sylvari emergence is linked to the Dragons. I like the idea of Tyria creating natural defenders, and hope they don’t deviate from that.

The Elder dragons can not control or corrupt champions or spawn of other Elder dragons they are just as much enemy’s to each other as they are to us making the Sylvari prime race to fight both the dragons and other races of the game. If I was a Elder Dragon that would be the best thing for my minions(no one wants there minions to come back to fight them)

Shael.4703:

Like c’mon people, why would they let us play a race that’s going to be an enemy sooner or later? That will put all the other races of Tyria into a dilemma, do they have to kill all sylvari and all pale trees since there’s proof that they were breeds or offsprings of an ED?

So no.

I’ll give you guys a + if you change your theory that one particular pale tree was being manipulated and deceived (or is in the process), but saying sylvari as a whole and the pale trees are offspring or whatever of an ED or his minions can not and will never fly.

Just look at WoW, they have to create a huge lore to support why there are playable undead race – the Forsaken, a splintered group. The splintered sylvari group or a corrupted pale tree may fit, but never the current “theory”.

This is silly for one the is plenty of supporting Lore that the spawn and or dragons control can be broken as Glint was a prime example also even if the Sylvari where made from a Elder dragon there would be no reason behind fighting them as they are not controlled by one and have free spirit and the Pale tree has nothing to do with this as there’s more then one group of sylvari each with very different from the last (no plae tree no dream no etc).

Would help if more people read and followed in-game lore and stop comparing anything related to Guild Wars Lore to WoWs

As stated in more then one transcript and Lore has stated this as well based of Guild Wars beliefs/science a Dragons spawn can easily be born free from the dragons will or become freed and turn against the Dragon who created them/it as proven with Glint and work done by Snaff and even the forgotten.

Witch as the creation of the Seeds within said Cave no one knows anything about its very very easy to fallow this theory(witch is stated even more so in-game by NPC) making it almost fact(think about the 99.9% likely hood that tengu will be in upcoming chapter)

TL:DR Sylvari was created by a elder dragon but was broken free from the dragons will be for they could form(possibly by Ventari’s Tablet)or other unknown source and scattering there seeds from within a cave(more then one Sylvari city is known atm 4 are known 1.Tarnished coast(player sylvari) 2. Magus Falls 3.Maguum waste 4.Magical cave and guardians of said cave(unknown location)Thus have cant not be effected by the Dragons touch but retain vast knowledge of the land(again by humans and Ventari’s Tablet)and even passably by the Elder Dragon who created them itself(think of it like Pandora’s box,they want to find there origin as much as the Inquest does).

For tho’s who hate the dragon theory so much,Fact 1.they where created by magic extremely close to that of a Elder dragon by what when and how is unknown but both Asura and Inquest beleave it to be by a Elder dragon itself stated by Illushia.3721 they do jump to conclusions a lot,but they do share the same magic(even if it was purified by the tablet or other source, thus masking it from the pure elder drgaons magic) Fact 2. There is more then one Sylvari Culture and Pale trees/cities The Dream and Nightmare and Current Pale tree have nothing to do with the theory’s as there not shared by other Sylvari(the magic they com form is shared)

Note* Pale trees have nothing to do with the Sylvari race other then as a guardian of the spawning tree and bares no relation to being a champion as the seeds where created be for the trees by a unknown source.

Note*As the seeds where created first and the cave is still hidden its all likely they where made from a elder dragon but backfired/purified from unknown source be for being planted(again supporting the dragon theory as its one of the only supported theory’s In-game)

Man thats a long post/read

This is silly for one the is plenty of supporting Lore that the spawn and or dragons control can be broken as Glint was a prime example also even if the Sylvari where made from a Elder dragon there would be no reason behind fighting them as they are not controlled by one and have free spirit and the Pale tree has nothing to do with this as there’s more then one group of sylvari each with very different from the last (no plae tree no dream no etc).

Glint needed outside help to break free, s/he didn’t do it on their own.

The Sylvari not connected to the Grove/Dream/Ventari’s tablet actually held ideals very close to those on their own, independant from Ventari’s tablet. So maybe Ventari’s tablet having ideals like theirs is coincidence. Maybe there’s something else connecting the Trees. We don’t know.

As stated in more then one transcript and Lore has stated this as well based of Guild Wars beliefs/science a Dragons spawn can easily be born free from the dragons will or become freed and turn against the Dragon who created them/it as proven with Glint and work done by Snaff and even the forgotten.

It was not ‘easy’ and Glint needed outside help to break free. None of the dragon’s spawn are ‘born’ or created free. They broke free later.

Witch as the creation of the Seeds within said Cave no one knows anything about its very very easy to fallow this theory(witch is stated even more so in-game by NPC) making it almost fact(think about the 99.9% likely hood that tengu will be in upcoming chapter)

Tengu are about as likely at this point as Quaggan, Kodan, Hylek, or Skritt are for being a playable race. We actually see LESS Tengu ingame than we do any of those races, meaning they’d be harder to fit in as a playable race.

This theory is nonsense with almost no evidence at all to back it up, but apparently endless speculation that goes nowhere.

TL:DR Sylvari was created by a elder dragon but was broken free from the dragons will be for they could form(possibly by Ventari’s Tablet)or other unknown source and scattering there seeds from within a cave(more then one Sylvari city is known atm 4 are known 1.Tarnished coast(player sylvari) 2. Magus Falls 3.Maguum waste 4.Magical cave and guardians of said cave(unknown location)Thus have cant not be effected by the Dragons touch but retain vast knowledge of the land(again by humans and Ventari’s Tablet)and even passably by the Elder Dragon who created them itself(think of it like Pandora’s box,they want to find there origin as much as the Inquest does).

There’s so much wrong in this.

1) Stop stating speculation as fact.
2) We -know- of TWO Sylvari cities. In total. You are again presenting speculation as fact when by definition speculation is not and cannot be fact.
3) The other Sylvari city has never heard of Ventari or the Tablet or the Dream, and yet still holds similar ideals to the Sylvari of the Grove, implying that they hold these sorts of ideals baseline.
4) Stating speculation as fact again.

For tho’s who hate the dragon theory so much,Fact 1.they where created by magic extremely close to that of a Elder dragon by what when and how is unknown but both Asura and Inquest beleave it to be by a Elder dragon itself stated by Illushia.3721 they do jump to conclusions a lot,but they do share the same magic(even if it was purified by the tablet or other source, thus masking it from the pure elder drgaons magic) Fact 2. There is more then one Sylvari Culture and Pale trees/cities The Dream and Nightmare and Current Pale tree have nothing to do with the theory’s as there not shared by other Sylvari(the magic they com form is shared)

1) The magic is stated to be ‘similar’, not extremely close.
2) The theory about them coming from a Dragon is an ingame theory with less ‘facts’ behind it than this nonsense has.
3) The tablet couldn’t have purified anything. It’s not magical. It’s words on a piece of mundane stone.
4) The other Sylvari culture we know of(Which is only one at this point) doesn’t have a Pale Tree or a Dream or anything.

Note*As the seeds where created first and the cave is still hidden its all likely they where made from a elder dragon but backfired/purified from unknown source be for being planted(again supporting the dragon theory as its one of the only supported theory’s In-game)

You seem to forget that the seeds that the Pale Tree was found among existed long before the Elder Dragons awoke to threaten Tyria. This alone is more evidence that they have nothing to do with the Dragons than this entire theory about them coming FROM dragons has.

No one knows the age of the seeds or the dragons and this is turning more into who has read all the current lore and who has not and who disagrees with that current lore if they have or have not even read it…

Keep in mind also that while there may be magical signature similarities between Sylvari and the dragons, it is not currently known if the dragons’ power itself comes from the dragons or whether they are feeders on something else still.

Therefore it is totally possible that the Sylvari and the Pale tree are tapping into and/or manifesting from deep power currents of Tyria itself, power currents which the dragons are merely borrowing and twisting for their own purposes. It would be these underlying power currents which the Pale Tree can tap into in the form of the Dream. The Dream is not from her, she merely taps in and tends it as best she can.

In that case, rather than the Sylvari coming from Elder Dragons, the Elder Dragons could be seen as coming from the source of the Dream. As they attempt to twist it to their own purposes, the Pale Tree attempts to preserve it.

This also ties in nicely with the human gods themselves, since they also could have merely been beings who previously tapped into these same underlying power-currents. As the Dragons rose and began exerting their influence others who were previously using this power have waned.

/end sylvari durmand priory mode

TheKow.7604:

No one knows the age of the seeds or the dragons and this is turning more into who has read all the current lore and who has not and who disagrees with that current lore if they have or have not even read it…

We don’t need to know the ages of the seeds and the dragons, because we know when certain events happened.

The seeds existed during a time period the dragons were inactive and sleeping, and not affecting the world of Tyria at all, at least above ground. (I’m not clear when the Dwarves started fighting Primordius.)

The seeds were planted long before the Dragons became active.

The Pale Tree was already blooming and growing by the time the Dragons awakened and started enforcing changes on the world.

Therefore by that chain of thought, the can’t have had anything to do with the Pale Tree of her development, other than possibly being the catalyst for the Sylvari being born, in that they need to protect her or the other trees.

Jenosavel.1756:

Therefore it is totally possible that the Sylvari and the Pale tree are tapping into and/or manifesting from deep power currents of Tyria itself, power currents which the dragons are merely borrowing and twisting for their own purposes. It would be these underlying power currents which the Pale Tree can tap into in the form of the Dream. The Dream is not from her, she merely taps in and tends it as best she can.

In that case, rather than the Sylvari coming from Elder Dragons, the Elder Dragons could be seen as coming from the source of the Dream. As they attempt to twist it to their own purposes, the Pale Tree attempts to preserve it.

This also ties in nicely with the human gods themselves, since they also could have merely been beings who previously tapped into these same underlying power-currents. As the Dragons rose and began exerting their influence others who were previously using this power have waned.

/end sylvari durmand priory mode

I actually like this. It makes a lot more sense and fits together timelinewise, as well as with what we currently know about the Dream/Tree/Sylvari/Dragons better than anything else.

Jenosavel.1756:

Keep in mind also that while there may be magical signature similarities between Sylvari and the dragons, it is not currently known if the dragons’ power itself comes from the dragons or whether they are feeders on something else still.

Orr

hide spoiler

In the later story you learn that Orr’s corruption is not due to Zhaitan, though he is using that corruption as if it were his own power. Cleansing Orr is a separate matter from defeating/destroying Zhaitan.

Therefore it is totally possible that the Sylvari and the Pale tree are tapping into and/or manifesting from deep power currents of Tyria itself, power currents which the dragons are merely borrowing and twisting for their own purposes. It would be these underlying power currents which the Pale Tree can tap into in the form of the Dream. The Dream is not from her, she merely taps in and tends it as best she can.

In that case, rather than the Sylvari coming from Elder Dragons, the Elder Dragons could be seen as coming from the source of the Dream. As they attempt to twist it to their own purposes, the Pale Tree attempts to preserve it.

This also ties in nicely with the human gods themselves, since they also could have merely been beings who previously tapped into these same underlying power-currents. As the Dragons rose and began exerting their influence others who were previously using this power have waned.

/end sylvari durmand priory mode

This is a really good Theory as well as it links the Inquest findings and the dragons magical connection to the sylvari as well giving the dragons another reason to take over the world(gaining full control of the magical flow)and why the dragons even tho having the same goals are against each other

I still think you’re reading too much into the Dragon’s goals.

ANet stated the Elder Dragon’s goals are basically “Convert everything into more of my minions, eat magic, kill everything else”.

That theory’s in line with their goals but don’t turn them into masterminds or imagine they’re plotting or something. As far as we know, they aren’t and don’t.

The only one that even started planning anything was Zhaitan and that was only when he was directly threatened.

Trock Bronze.9625:

Actually it does kinda fit, there are a variety of similarities. I still believe its more of a natural defense to Tyria and the Nightmare Court is more of something gone wrong.

However the Infinity Coil… Now I have not done the dungeon but I noticved when getting the POI’s that every point was related to a dragon(forgive my spelling), Black Zhaitan, Red, Primordus, White Jormag, Violet Kahlkratorak, Blue (unfinished so who knows), and then there was green. Undoubtedly they were all related to the dragons, so which dragon was green and full of plant life? Honestly the only thing that fits is Sylvari, and even more specific, the plant life there was not the norm for the Nightmare Court, not thorns or anything. Again, haven’t done the dungeon, I hope it explains things like that, what the inquest is doing with these places of power they have.

Or the infinity coil could be related to Human gods (the orginal 6 including abadon) Black – Dhuum, Red- Balthazar, White – Dwayna, Violet – Lyssa, Blue – Abbadon (god of magic/knowledge), Green – Melandru

Makes more sense to me than being related to dragons.

It could really be anything. Dragons is just one of the possibilities.