Guild Wars 2

Please note that the recipe “transmogrify: silver doubloon” is missing in the artificer crafting window. On the other hand, the recipe “transmogrify: gold doubloon” is available in-game.

Silver doubloons are required in crafting the gift of The Juggernaut. A total of 250 of them are needed. Currently, it costs 475 gold just to obtain the silver doubloons.

I cannot imagine that this was intended game design. Due to the level of the item, it cannot reasonably be acquired through normal, intended game play at level 80.

I kindly ask you to please add the missing recipe “transmogrify silver doubloon” to the artificer craft, where it belongs. I note that some posters have gone at great lengths to guess the reason behind this missing recipe. No poster, however, addressed it on the bug forum, where I believe it belongs.

Info: The current total cost of crafting the Juggernaut is roughly 2027 gold.

Its intended. Live with it.

Info: The current cost is 1900 gold 10 silver 50.33 copper, 500 Badges of Honor, 500 Manifestos of the Moletariate, 1064000 karma, and 354 skill points.
The OP overstated the gold cost by ~ 7%
The price drops another 45g (~2.3%) if they spend additional skill points in promoting materials.

If anything, the complaint is that there is a balance issue at stake between the Juggernaut and other legendaries, I’m not seeing it: Allowing for promotion, prices of Legendaries cover a spectrum from 909 gold on up to the 1850 of the Juggernaut (ignoring the Eternity, which is made from 2 legendaries).

I’ll grant that the price difference between it and the Twilight is not insignificant, it still represents what is a small investment for a player that wisely amasses 1500+g in assets to make a legendary. (Eh, if pressed, I could bridge the gap in a week, but rarely do I put that much effort in making gold)

Malediktus.9250:

Its intended. Live with it.

I refuse to believe that Anet intended and would actively promote unintended gameplay.

It’s also unfortunate that this thread has immediately been overtaken by power traders with vested interests in a status quo.

Actually I am by no means a powertrader, but I would hate to see my juggernaut devalued. Considering its one of the best looking legendaries it is well deserved that it has this pricetag.

Buttercup.5871:

I refuse to believe that Anet intended and would actively promote unintended gameplay.

It’s also unfortunate that this thread has immediately been overtaken by power traders with vested interests in a status quo.

Eh? They would intend to promote gameplay that they did not intend?

I am not a power trader. I have done power trading and its rewarding in gold only. It’d kitten boring. I hate boring, but it got me my commander tag, and various bonus items for the guild. Exciting – that’s what I want. Trading is not exciting, but if I need the gold, I can earn it fast enough.

So, here’s my deal in this. I’m a devils advocate here. You feel justified in the price being wrong for the silver doubloon. You have a long post in the crafting forum that goes over that pricing in detail.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/crafting/The-Silver-Doubloon-Debacle
(Would it have killed you to link this thread when making the original post?)

I think you have a legitimate point, but I don’t know that its enough of one to merit a change to the game. I do know that simply arguing that ‘a recipe is missing, please fix it’ won’t change anything when game balance is on the line. If you want something to change, argue at game balance being off. Use pictures.
Heck, use my pictures. Prices fluctuate, I deliberately gave a shot of all legendary prices for a fixed price on the market. Use it. Don’t get emotional, yes, emotions are tied in, but we have rational people working at A-net, present rational arguments if you want them to listen.

Or do I need to be the devils advocate to my devils advocacy, and argue your side for you too?

Let me start:

• ‘over-stated price by 7%’ – that may be normal day-to-day price shifting, and the method I use to calculate prices may take advantage of buy-later pricing where others use but-now prices. – (part of why I provided snapshots, so that shifting prices can temporarily be ignored.)

• The Juggernaut is twice the price of other legendaries.

There are better arguments to be made. The pricing of doubloons across tiers, the current sources of doubloons, the demand for the legendary vs other legendaries…

That last one I think may be a very important, if I follow the supply/demand picture well enough (I might not…)

First, I did not comment on the price in that topic. I didn’t write a long response either. I commented on a proposal made.

Second, I’m saying the missing recipe is a bug/oversight which leads to unintended gameplay due to the level of the item (which cannot reasonably be obtained as a drop through intended gameplay at level 80), and that therefore it should be fixed.

Third, my post is far from emotional. It’s stating the facts. The 7 percent deviation you refer to probably comes from the site that I used against the spreadsheet you used. My figures were merely demonstrative of the result of the issue though, they do not constitute the core of it. That is, that the item cannot be acquired through normal gameplay at lvl 80.

Malediktus.9250:

Actually I am by no means a powertrader, but I would hate to see my juggernaut devalued. Considering its one of the best looking legendaries it is well deserved that it has this pricetag.

A great American judge and former Nuremberg Prosecutor once said the following about conscious continuation of a flawed policy:

Under these circumstances, except for any personal humiliation involved in admitting that I do not always understand the opinions of this Court, I see no reason why I should be consciously wrong today because I was unconsciously wrong yesterday.

Robert H Jackson, Massachusetts v. United States, 333 U.S. 611, 639-40 (1948) (dissenting).

Don’t defend flawed design just because it serves you or because “it’s always been like that before”. It’s not intended; it never was, and you know it. And don’t argue that others should bleed from a mistake just because you had to, too. It’s bad form.

That quote seems out of place here and I do not see him as a great judge. But I will not go into reasons why on these forums.

@Mal: The quote is surprisingly apt, considering that its source is highly academic for this type of forum. (o.O) However, even if you don’t like the quote, read the last paragraph, which expresses Buttercup’s stance, and really couldn’t be stated any more clearly.

Kudos, Buttercup, and I agree that hopefully this recipe will be added/fixed, as I can’t see any good reason why it shouldn’t be.

(Yay – not instant defeat at the hands of the ‘power traders’ whoever those might be. Job done)

One last item, a graph with the cost of the precursor on the X axis and the cost of the legendary on the Y axis. The Juggernaut is the high one at 100% on the Y axis. (Chart excludes the Eternity, and the Howler for which I cannot get a price currently – no Howls for sale) Mind, I am using the ‘best to obtain at’ pricing out of my crafting tool, which has it’s own ideas of whether to use the buy-now or buy-later pricing.

Don’t go arguing for massive changes, and please be aware that we might simply be ignoring the content with all the doubloons in it.
//Portable Corpse