Guild Wars 2

Ty for putting us in an extremely unbalanced matchup again anet. Looks like this is gonna be a good week for pve……….

This is the effect of…
1) free transfers
2) gold league being only 6 servers
3) ratings isolation cause of leagues (servers at the league borders being prevented from fighting each other)
4) slow glicko adjustments for population changes
5) WvWvW’s lack of teams of roughly equal size

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

Chaba.5410:

This is the effect of…
1) free transfers
2) gold league being only 6 servers
3) ratings isolation cause of leagues (servers at the league borders being prevented from fighting each other)
4) slow glicko adjustments for population changes
5) WvWvW’s lack of teams of roughly equal size

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

Yup. I’m done with WvW for a while. I’ll go and try (emphasis on try) to roam, but I find little other than large guilds.

when we finally get to t2, it will be an anti-climax because it has been built up so much now.

Tomas Godlewski.4086:

when we finally get to t2, it will be an anti-climax because it has been built up so much now.

DB was in the same problem. They were there for almost 3 months. Cant remember exactly. DB will have to tank if FA is to come up to T2. Unless the gods of RNG are on FAs side.

Fuzzion.2504:

DB was in the same problem. They were there for almost 3 months. Cant remember exactly. DB will have to tank if FA is to come up to T2. Unless the gods of RNG are on FAs side.

Not really. Everyone knows that the Glicko system is really slow to adjust to population changes. DB didn’t have such population changes as FA has had so no they didn’t have the same “problem”.

I can smell the dirty laundry of www.gw2wvw.net airing into this thread.

Chaba please don’t presume you know everything about a server you haven’t fought in 6 months our rating before SoR was 1740 and after losing the baggage from SoR stabilized at 1840. That 100 rating didn’t come out of nowhere we gained a handful of guilds because of seasons and some of them stayed

Lol did le sexy dance of seduction for the “wvw team” to keep fa here.

FA doesn’t really seem like they want to go back to t2, they aren’t really ppting

XacTactX.6709:

I can smell the dirty laundry of www.gw2wvw.net airing into this thread.

Chaba please don’t presume you know everything about a server you haven’t fought in 6 months our rating before SoR was 1740 and after losing the baggage from SoR stabilized at 1840. That 100 rating didn’t come out of nowhere we gained a handful of guilds because of seasons and some of them stayed

lol @ db defending themselves.

calm down dude, you’ll be back in t3 where you belong soon enough.

echo.2053:

Lol did le sexy dance of seduction for the “wvw team” to keep fa here.

FA doesn’t really seem like they want to go back to t2, they aren’t really ppting

Oh look! Its Chuckles alt account.

Tibstrike.2974:

echo.2053:

Lol did le sexy dance of seduction for the “wvw team” to keep fa here.

FA doesn’t really seem like they want to go back to t2, they aren’t really ppting

Oh look! Its Chuckles alt account.

So close yet so extremely far away. 1 copy of gw2 is already too much

XacTactX.6709:

That 100 rating didn’t come out of nowhere we gained a handful of guilds because of seasons and some of them stayed

The post-season rating difference between ranks 6 and 7 is an artificial creation from leagues. Being the bottom of Gold is like saying the bottom of T8 is great because there’s no one to fight below it.

Chaba.5410:

This is the effect of…
1) free transfers
2) gold league being only 6 servers
3) ratings isolation cause of leagues (servers at the league borders being prevented from fighting each other)
4) slow glicko adjustments for population changes
5) WvWvW’s lack of teams of roughly equal size

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

I have to disagree with you on this Chaba. FA went out, and recruited like crazy when the season was over. You guys want T2, and you will get it. But until then, it is k-train central for you guys, and for SBI (who gets stuck with you because somehow that random number generator knows SBI is really supposed to be 8th not 10th, put us there), and either IoJ or YB, we just have to suffer through another week of 40-60 vs 20-30. It is what it is.

A lot of us on SBI, just go out, and enjoy wiping your HoD transfers

Been some good fights, we know we are gonna lose, so it is just about going out and having fun. No pressure on us.

But, glicko rankings will stabilize, HoD imploded, while FA became the bandwagon they have hated for so long (all them HoD people too). But, in reality, no one should hate FA. They know what they want, they did what it took to get it. They are playing the way they want to, and that is good for them.

And Chaba, I haven’t seen you much in WvW the past few weeks, where ya been?

Chaba.5410:

XacTactX.6709:

That 100 rating didn’t come out of nowhere we gained a handful of guilds because of seasons and some of them stayed

The post-season rating difference between ranks 6 and 7 is an artificial creation from leagues. Being the bottom of Gold is like saying the bottom of T8 is great because there’s no one to fight below it.

Nah, you guys were low during the leagues, because,

1) the glicko system is pure garbage, and while they share their algorithm, it still makes no kitten sense when implemented (kind of like, how reset can’t happen on the hour like it is supposed to)

2) FA lost to HoD a lot, and even to IoJ, plus had a close match against SBI, that lowered their rankings a lot.

3) FA keeps getting a 10 ranked server in their match, with the 8 or 9th server. They have to blow us out by a lot, in order to keep increasing.

4) DB is still close to SoS each match, and Mag, which keeps them from losing a lot of points.

5) Glicko is garbage and it doesn’t make any kitten sense.

Andrew Clear made an excellent point that I’d like to reiterate. “and either IoJ or YB, we just have to suffer through another week of 40-60 vs 20-30” Never mind the fact that DB has a lack of fighting guilds compared to SoS, Mag, FA, it does have t2 coverage. There are 4 servers with t2 coverage. Regardless of who drops down to t3 t3 is going to be very imbalanced as long as DB and FA both have their giant coverage advantage. Having DB and it’s lack of fighting guilds in t2 is a small concern compared to this problem, this problem will not go away if DB drops to t3.

Andrew,
You kind of agreed with my point about population changes causing this and the slow glicko adjustment when you mentioned our numbers ktraining.

Without acknowledgment of the effect leagues have on rating, the conversation doesn’t advance. Pre-season there were essentially 5 T2 level servers with the possibility of ratings between them all to be close enough for matchmaking to change things up frequently for T2 and T3. The artificial division caused by leagues destroyed that because DB could never roll a match with HOD even though they had the population for it. And they would have taken some T2 rating in such a match. That’s rating isolation. FA would not have lost population both pre-season and middle of the season but for that division.

Also, I don’t log on until later.

Well, that would only apply to the 1 week before the season. Their were only 4 t2 servers before that. The drop off between DB and SBI in T3 was huge (and let’s not forget SoR was drowning in that match for weeks). SB was artificially inflated by SoR, and while the glicko points they bleed off of SoR was massive, SoR wasn’t losing them fast enough. That is what hit FA pre-season. FA dropped to T3 for that last match, and there was no chance for them to get back into T3, because of their points vs IoJ and SBI’s points. DB wasn’t going to lose many points, even if they got creamed by SoS and Mag because of the difference between their points and SoS’.

But again, as far as DB rolling a match with HoD, well, HoD didn’t have that population until FA dropped to T3.

Chaba.5410:

This is the effect of…
1) free transfers
2) gold league being only 6 servers
3) ratings isolation cause of leagues (servers at the league borders being prevented from fighting each other)
4) slow glicko adjustments for population changes
5) WvWvW’s lack of teams of roughly equal size

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

Why is Gold League only 6 servers?

That seems a bit crazy – no… beyond crazy to me.

atheria.2837:

Chaba.5410:

This is the effect of…
1) free transfers
2) gold league being only 6 servers
3) ratings isolation cause of leagues (servers at the league borders being prevented from fighting each other)
4) slow glicko adjustments for population changes
5) WvWvW’s lack of teams of roughly equal size

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

Why is Gold League only 6 servers?

That seems a bit crazy – no… beyond crazy to me.

Has to be divisible by 3 or gold is playing silver…. Whoever is 8 and 9 would be creamed as presently constituted. Maybe LIMITED free xfers would fill them enough to be competitive.

Andrew Clear.1750:

But again, as far as DB rolling a match with HoD, well, HoD didn’t have that population until FA dropped to T3.

Before the start of the season, HoD certainly had the population for T2. They were queuing maps all hours of the day and probably would’ve been able to take the sixth spot in Gold above DB. And SoR’s slow decent locking them into the bottom of Silver where they had no business being… All due to glicko being unable to adjust to large population changes quickly enough.

Well, I know server merges will eventually happen, anet can’t turn a blind eye to the problem forever, and every mmo goes through merges. They just merged all of PvE, now all we have left is our “world” for WvW.

They are trying to avoid the press about merges (hey, every troll would be all over that), but who cares at this point. Pay attention to your customers. Question is, how many will they upset. Some lower tier players have pride in their servers, and do not want to leave.

Do they just say “x server will be shut down” or “x server will not be able to accept futures transfers or new accounts” and then allow free transfers off that server til it is empty?

Do they just close some servers and merge those players into other servers?

I personally would just take worlds 13-24 and merge them into 1-12 (24 goes into 1, 23 into 2, etc, 13 into 12) so that the populations are about as equal as you can get them. Sure, coverage would always be an issue. But, that would just upset lower servers that do not want to transfer.

Allowing us to destack isn’t going to work, ever. And it is clear that lower tier servers have die hard players that don’t want to leave their servers. That is very clear.

But, the one thing that is more clear, than anything, is that the wvw population cannot support 24 server BLs, 12 EBs, and multiple EoTM maps.

Chaba.5410:

Andrew Clear.1750:

But again, as far as DB rolling a match with HoD, well, HoD didn’t have that population until FA dropped to T3.

Before the start of the season, HoD certainly had the population for T2. They were queuing maps all hours of the day and probably would’ve been able to take the sixth spot in Gold above DB. And SoR’s slow decent locking them into the bottom of Silver where they had no business being… All due to glicko being unable to adjust to large population changes quickly enough.

That was because of free transfers. They didn’t have those people til then. When free transfers were announced, people looked at who was 13, and just waited to stack it. The free transfers actually went live the Tuesday update before the last week of the season, and that is why they queued maps everyday til the season started.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Well, I know server merges will eventually happen, anet can’t turn a blind eye to the problem forever, and every mmo goes through merges. They just merged all of PvE, now all we have left is our “world” for WvW.

They are trying to avoid the press about merges (hey, every troll would be all over that), but who cares at this point. Pay attention to your customers. Question is, how many will they upset. Some lower tier players have pride in their servers, and do not want to leave.

Do they just say “x server will be shut down” or “x server will not be able to accept futures transfers or new accounts” and then allow free transfers off that server til it is empty?

Do they just close some servers and merge those players into other servers?

I personally would just take worlds 13-24 and merge them into 1-12 (24 goes into 1, 23 into 2, etc, 13 into 12) so that the populations are about as equal as you can get them. Sure, coverage would always be an issue. But, that would just upset lower servers that do not want to transfer.

Allowing us to destack isn’t going to work, ever. And it is clear that lower tier servers have die hard players that don’t want to leave their servers. That is very clear.

But, the one thing that is more clear, than anything, is that the wvw population cannot support 24 server BLs, 12 EBs, and multiple EoTM maps.

Too many people on the top population servers. Solution? Merge the bottom ones, where people already enjoy playing! More misery all around!

sirflamesword.3896:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Well, I know server merges will eventually happen, anet can’t turn a blind eye to the problem forever, and every mmo goes through merges. They just merged all of PvE, now all we have left is our “world” for WvW.

They are trying to avoid the press about merges (hey, every troll would be all over that), but who cares at this point. Pay attention to your customers. Question is, how many will they upset. Some lower tier players have pride in their servers, and do not want to leave.

Do they just say “x server will be shut down” or “x server will not be able to accept futures transfers or new accounts” and then allow free transfers off that server til it is empty?

Do they just close some servers and merge those players into other servers?

I personally would just take worlds 13-24 and merge them into 1-12 (24 goes into 1, 23 into 2, etc, 13 into 12) so that the populations are about as equal as you can get them. Sure, coverage would always be an issue. But, that would just upset lower servers that do not want to transfer.

Allowing us to destack isn’t going to work, ever. And it is clear that lower tier servers have die hard players that don’t want to leave their servers. That is very clear.

But, the one thing that is more clear, than anything, is that the wvw population cannot support 24 server BLs, 12 EBs, and multiple EoTM maps.

Too many people on the top population servers. Solution? Merge the bottom ones, where people already enjoy playing! More misery all around!

T1 isn’t as populated as you might think. T1 now, is the pop T2 used to be last year. They don’t queue all maps each night, etc.

I know, merging those people from t8 wouldn’t make queues pop all the time. But I do see your point, because a lot of people on lower tier servers like the smaller fights. But no matter what tier you are in, zerg vs zerg is what takes place the majority of the time.

On the other hand, you don’t actually have to PvP in lower tiers, in off hours, like you would have to in a higher tier.

Because My server HOD imploded so bad, I did make the jump to FA. The only reason I did so, is I can find others on the map at the hours I play WvW. To say buyer’s remorse is a understatement. I have no desire to be part of a team that simply steam rolls everyone. I want a nice close fight. Blow outs are no fun for anyone. Its a Lose/Loose situation. In my defense, Been more than a few times while in a tower, seen a enemy zerg getting ready to cap it, Not only did not I not defend it, Said nothing to my team mates about it. Its just a game, I want everyone to have fun, I don’t wanna steam roll some small zerg, I been on the other side of that fence, its frustrating and no fun………

tym.3791:

Because My server HOD imploded so bad, I did make the jump to FA. The only reason I did so, is I can find others on the map at the hours I play WvW. To say buyer’s remorse is a understatement. I have no desire to be part of a team that simply steam rolls everyone. I want a nice close fight. Blow outs are no fun for anyone. Its a Lose/Loose situation. In my defense, Been more than a few times while in a tower, seen a enemy zerg getting ready to cap it, Not only did not I not defend it, Said nothing to my team mates about it. Its just a game, I want everyone to have fun, I don’t wanna steam roll some small zerg, I been on the other side of that fence, its frustrating and no fun………

You make me lol.

HoD basically went to what it was before all the transfers. I don’t know if you transferred in during the free transfers, or you were already in HoD before that, but I kept saying that I felt bad for HoD because of the transfers.

Nothing good comes from it. It happened to my server, SBI, for season 1. A lot of guilds joined, we finished 3rd in the season, stayed in t3 (even made it to t2 for 1 week) then we had an exodus. Ironically, we still had our core players, and some of the people that transferred stayed, so We didn’t really drop.

The mass transfers just hurt a server, and FA will be the next to get hit. Drama follows mass transfers, and that is the truth.

If you jumped off because HoD imploded so hard, then you didn’t really know what HoD was. Everyone knew the people that bandwagoned for free 1st place rewards would leave (cough Kome cough but many others have done so as well. Now, a lot of HoD transferred to FA. It is a shame, that HoD had to suffer from the free transfer non-sense.

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

tym.3791:

Because My server HOD imploded so bad, I did make the jump to FA. The only reason I did so, is I can find others on the map at the hours I play WvW. To say buyer’s remorse is a understatement. I have no desire to be part of a team that simply steam rolls everyone. I want a nice close fight. Blow outs are no fun for anyone. Its a Lose/Loose situation. In my defense, Been more than a few times while in a tower, seen a enemy zerg getting ready to cap it, Not only did not I not defend it, Said nothing to my team mates about it. Its just a game, I want everyone to have fun, I don’t wanna steam roll some small zerg, I been on the other side of that fence, its frustrating and no fun………

Oh, I forget to mention….you server didn’t implode that bad. They are still, at least t5, which is where they started.

Imploding bad is HoD after launch, Ebay, and SoR recently. AR last summer. Those were bad implosions.

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

I think I speak for FA when I say we couldn’t possibly care less. FA has a very solid WvW community that isn’t going anywhere. If others want to join and leave, that’s fine, but most of us have been here a very long time.

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

If they joined FA knowing that we’re looking to go to tier 2 and they’d rather bandwagon away, there’s nothing we can do about that. Everyone knows what our goal is. People been worrying about our server’s stability for months now, just let it go. Worst case scenario, people that don’t belong in T2 helped people that do belong in T2 get there. The biggest issue for season 3 is that if it is anything like season 1/2, not just FA but how many people will play WvW period.

Fluffball.8307:

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

I think I speak for FA when I say we couldn’t possibly care less. FA has a very solid WvW community that isn’t going anywhere. If others want to join and leave, that’s fine, but most of us have been here a very long time.

I would also request that seasons bandwagoners & server transferring gypsies not come to FA. This wouldn’t be the right fit for you or us. FA is a very stable server, we have been rank 5-8 for most of if not all of our entire existence. Alot of our people have been here since launch (including yours truly). I would only recommend FA to whomever wants a stable server with great people and community. We do not want seasons trinket hunters or people seeking easy wins. Instead we want loyal, dedicated players to join our family, and to kick kitten in T2. Our server is a true fighting server, we fight the fight!

Chaba.5410:

This is the effect of…

Going to PvE might be a good idea. Wait until the ratings adjustments finally blow over.

This is the issue. If people will be going to do pve or other stuff because they are loosing then there wont be people to fight. So when some random commander finds courage to fight enemies he wont have people behind him so he wont tag up anymore. Guilds will go other server because their server is dead. This is domino effect. The best thing you can do for your server is play. Even its painful and frustating.

3 strikes and you are out! Works in baseball and should work in WvW. If a server lands in 3rd place three times in a row, the engine should send them down a tier. They might bounce back up but at least it would change things up a bit.

At the very least, someone should manually promote FA and demote DB next week regardless of what the randomizer pops up.

Straegen.2938:

3 strikes and you are out! Works in baseball and should work in WvW. If a server lands in 3rd place three times in a row, the engine should send them down a tier. They might bounce back up but at least it would change things up a bit.

At the very least, someone should manually promote FA and demote DB next week regardless of what the randomizer pops up.

This idea seems very reasonable. Win 3x in a row and move up (if possible). Lose 3 x in a row move down. It might even help the case of SOR preseason where they could not drop fast enough. 6 losses and they drop 2 tiers….

There could be something I am missing, but this does seem feasible….

Straegen.2938:

At the very least, someone should manually promote FA and demote DB next week regardless of what the randomizer pops up.

WTB this.

neonreaper.4805:

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

If they joined FA knowing that we’re looking to go to tier 2 and they’d rather bandwagon away, there’s nothing we can do about that. Everyone knows what our goal is. People been worrying about our server’s stability for months now, just let it go. Worst case scenario, people that don’t belong in T2 helped people that do belong in T2 get there. The biggest issue for season 3 is that if it is anything like season 1/2, not just FA but how many people will play WvW period.

Season 1 and 2 brought tons of people out in WvW (some acheivement hunters, some people who were burned out on wvw, and some who just like to compete for the honor of placing high). I would consider that a success for the seasons.

The bad part of them is the mass transfers so people can get an easy win, but it is kind of like free agency in sports (many athletes do that). The free transfers a week before the season, should not be allowed again. That was rubbish.

Bucket Lips.5017:

Fluffball.8307:

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA, I just wonder how many of these guilds will stay with you, when season 3 hits? Will they enjoy last place in gold league, or will they jump ship for first in silver again?

I think I speak for FA when I say we couldn’t possibly care less. FA has a very solid WvW community that isn’t going anywhere. If others want to join and leave, that’s fine, but most of us have been here a very long time.

I would also request that seasons bandwagoners & server transferring gypsies not come to FA. This wouldn’t be the right fit for you or us. FA is a very stable server, we have been rank 5-8 for most of if not all of our entire existence. Alot of our people have been here since launch (including yours truly). I would only recommend FA to whomever wants a stable server with great people and community. We do not want seasons trinket hunters or people seeking easy wins. Instead we want loyal, dedicated players to join our family, and to kick kitten in T2. Our server is a true fighting server, we fight the fight!

See, a man that understands what I was trying to say. Bandwagoners are not good for servers. Getting guilds that want to come to your server, and actual be part of the family is the important thing. Hired mercs, and bandwagoners really hurt a servers stability.

FA does have a great core, and it is that core that has kept them stable. I just don’t want to see that core get rocked some, like HoD just did (and SBI and YB was after season 1).

Chaba.5410:

Straegen.2938:

At the very least, someone should manually promote FA and demote DB next week regardless of what the randomizer pops up.

WTB this.

I would love to see this too. Would like to have a DB, SBI, CD match. That would be interesting.

Andrew Clear.1750:

FA does have a great core, and it is that core that has kept them stable. I just don’t want to see that core get rocked some, like HoD just did (and SBI and YB was after season 1).

I doubt HoD’s core got rocked. They’ll go back to 12th place or wherever it was they came from.

FA’s core is especially immune to bandwagoners because we don’t have much room to go up. We could get a big influx of guilds and move to… T2? We’re often there anyway due to the core FA.

Yes please…maybe tier 3 has players outside of the blob (though I am skeptical).