Reported Win Trading today

Reported Win Trading today

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

I reported two commanders for WvW win-trading today on my server to farm WvW ranks. This is not fun for those of us who enjoy WvW.

I’m not going to say which server, but I sent screencaps of them explaining the plot to other players in chat. Basically they were working with the other server over voice chat to farm WvW ranks by trading keeps, towers, etc. clockwise around the map. One commander was boasting about the number of ranks he’d earned. They were telling other players not in on the fix to stop repairing and stop attacking.

Again, this is not fun or fair and I hope ArenaNet puts a stop to it.

(edited by LeCreaux.3087)

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Posted by: Rennoko.5731

Rennoko.5731

Okay?

But how do you control this? If people are more controlled and careful about how they do this instead of obvious, the difference between “karma train” and “win trading” is negligible.

How about you designed the system better, so that defending is actually a worth-while cause, and that flipping and re-flipping is worth less and less wexp?

The problem is the system, not the people. If the system allows for the abusive behavior, and encourages it… people will do it.

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

The Rules of Conduct forbid “match manipulation”. I know that currently refers to sPvP, but this affects the experience of other players and WvW matchmaking.

“…you will not participate in any form of match manipulation. Match manipulation is defined as any action taken to fix or manipulate the outcome of a match or alter or manipulate the rankings or ratings of the ladder. This also includes disrupting other people’s game experience by not actively participating in matches in good faith, a.k.a leeching.”

A lot of us enjoy WvW purely for the fun of it. From what I’ve seen so far, ArenaNet is pretty good about keeping the game clean.

(edited by LeCreaux.3087)

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Posted by: Chris.3290

Chris.3290

They will probably just claim that each was just setting up the other or keeping them on that map to so that the rest of the server can take all of EB, etc.

If you have an organized server community it’s best you take it up with them and get that commander “pariah” status.

Likewise, try to inform someone on the other server of this, if they are known to have any respectable guilds.

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

They will probably just claim that each was just setting up the other or keeping them on that map to so that the rest of the server can take all of EB, etc.

If you have an organized server community it’s best you take it up with them and get that commander “pariah” status.

Likewise, try to inform someone on the other server of this, if they are known to have any respectable guilds.

The screencaps are pretty clear about what they were doing. I stumbled upon them when I started running supplies to close the door to a keep. I got messages to stop. When I started killing enemies I got whispers to leave them alone. Then they explained the plot to get everybody to understand and cooperate. I screencapped it all and sent it in with a ticket.

My hope is to prevent this from getting widespread like some of the other exploits and it breaks the WvW skill point system and the matchmaking.

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Posted by: Krakah.3582

Krakah.3582

LuLs it’s Illum all over again.

-KNT- BG

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

Just wondering are you still on TC?

Fyi Thanks for not calling out the servers directly but with the ability to search past posts, it’s quite easy to narrow down whom you may be talking about. Assuming this is true…with out proof, your post is moot.

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

(edited by Zikory.6871)

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

Just wondering are you still on TC?

Fyi Thanks for not calling out the servers directly but with the ability to search past posts, it’s quite easy to narrow down whom you may be talking about. Assuming this is true…with out proof, your post is moot.

The ticket has the screencaps, that’s in ArenaNet’s lane now. My post is not a call-out, it’s a stand against the exploit. Hopefully other players recognize the plot when they see it and help control it instead of going along with it.

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Posted by: Liquid.9672

Liquid.9672

I’m not condoning the behavior, but I’d bet it was a side effect of the new matchmaking system. On reset day of a boring blow out mismatch, player frustrations can lead to this sort of stuff.

Zend(ario/imas/iana/ango) – Engi/Ele/Necro/Guardian
[KnT] – Blackgate

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Posted by: Feed Me Change.6528

Feed Me Change.6528

Was it a tower or keep? Isn’t karma training better WXP than flipping towers every 5 minutes?

Side note: it’s Friday so who cares?

NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

Just wondering are you still on TC?

Fyi Thanks for not calling out the servers directly but with the ability to search past posts, it’s quite easy to narrow down whom you may be talking about. Assuming this is true…with out proof, your post is moot.

The ticket has the screencaps, that’s in ArenaNet’s lane now. My post is not a call-out, it’s a stand against the exploit. Hopefully other players recognize the plot when they see it and help control it instead of going along with it.

I think it was the right thing not calling out the servers but sadly I’m not sure anet can do much about it in the larger scheme of things. With the way a lot of these server community are constructed, they wouldn’t want this type of propaganda to reflect the server as a whole and thus be forced to take care of it on a player level. Then again if it was being done by a “premier” guild then, shame on them

Edit: Propaganda might not be the right word for it but its fun to say out loud and I’m sticking with it

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

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Posted by: TyPin.9860

TyPin.9860

I reported two commanders for WvW win-trading today on my server to farm WvW ranks. This is not fun for those of us who enjoy WvW.

I’m not going to say which server, but I sent screencaps of them explaining the plot to other players in chat. Basically they were working with the other server over voice chat to farm WvW ranks by trading keeps, towers, etc. clockwise around the map. One commander was boasting about the number of ranks he’d earned. They were telling other players not in on the fix to stop repairing and stop attacking.

Again, this is not fun or fair and I hope ArenaNet puts a stop to it.

Just make recapping almost worthless. I can think of already several ideas to do that:

  • Put a not visible boon on the keep/tower giving a super low ammount of event and WXP revard for the 30 min or so.
  • Let players get with each captured keep/tower less WXP and event rewards.
  • devide the event reward and WXP gained by capturing a keep or tower between the ppl doing that.
  • make constantly flipping keeps/towers with each flip have less HP on walls and gates (leading to quicker reflipping) but after some flips the walls and gates have no HP and the NPCs abandon the keep/tower for some time, making it unflippable and basicly a ruin.
  • in the scenario described above, repairing and holding the keep agains attackers, when already damaged due to a high flip rate, awards a higher ammount of WXP and event rewards.
[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

I reported two commanders for WvW win-trading today on my server to farm WvW ranks. This is not fun for those of us who enjoy WvW.

I’m not going to say which server, but I sent screencaps of them explaining the plot to other players in chat. Basically they were working with the other server over voice chat to farm WvW ranks by trading keeps, towers, etc. clockwise around the map. One commander was boasting about the number of ranks he’d earned. They were telling other players not in on the fix to stop repairing and stop attacking.

Again, this is not fun or fair and I hope ArenaNet puts a stop to it.

Just make recapping almost worthless. I can think of already several ideas to do that:

  • Put a not visible boon on the keep/tower giving a super low ammount of event and WXP revard for the 30 min or so.
  • Let players get with each captured keep/tower less WXP and event rewards.
  • devide the event reward and WXP gained by capturing a keep or tower between the ppl doing that.
  • make constantly flipping keeps/towers with each flip have less HP on walls and gates (leading to quicker reflipping) but after some flips the walls and gates have no HP and the NPCs abandon the keep/tower for some time, making it unflippable and basicly a ruin.
  • in the scenario described above, repairing and holding the keep agains attackers, when already damaged due to a high flip rate, awards a higher ammount of WXP and event rewards.

If its unflippable why would people be attacking it? Also adding a event with a higher WXP rate would just make something new to farm no?

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

I think is totally wrong to not give info about who is doing it. You should definitely post here the Commander’s name, Guild names and Servers, even post the screencaps. If Anet can’t do anything about it(wich they could, if they have proof like the screencaps, everyone involved should get perma-ban) at least a lot of people get to know who are they.

You’re actually encouraging them to keep doing it by hiding they faces, if there’s no sort of punishment, there’s no problem on keep going. Its like arresting someone for robbery but instead of put him in jail you let him go, he will continue robbing tomorrow, cuz its ok. :/

Its against the CoC to call out individuals publicly so he would end up getting the thread closed. I asked him if he was still on a server to give an idea of what servers may have been involved and they can take care of it them selves.

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

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Posted by: bhagwad.4281

bhagwad.4281

I’m surprised more people are not doing this. The point of play is to maximize your returns. Not to have fun. The ideal is to have fun while maximizing your returns. Anything else is setting the system up for failure.

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Posted by: TyPin.9860

TyPin.9860

[…]

  • make constantly flipping keeps/towers with each flip have less HP on walls and gates (leading to quicker reflipping) but after some flips the walls and gates have no HP and the NPCs abandon the keep/tower for some time, making it unflippable and basicly a ruin.
  • in the scenario described above, repairing and holding the keep agains attackers, when already damaged due to a high flip rate, awards a higher ammount of WXP and event rewards.

If its unflippable why would people be attacking it? Also adding a event with a higher WXP rate would just make something new to farm no?

1st: they won’t attacking it, that’s the point.
2nd: I described it badly, I mean of course defending only damaged keeps/towers, due to frequent flipping. And abandoned keep/tower can not be defended or flipped of course.

However, an increased reward for broken keeps might actually lead to more abuse, you are right. Making 2 servers quickflip a fortification and then one earns the extended defense rewards, so that actually might be a bad idea…

[ROSE] – Fissure of Woe
Chronomancy works, I am proof of it. Now stop asking me questions. Time must be preserved!

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

[…]

  • make constantly flipping keeps/towers with each flip have less HP on walls and gates (leading to quicker reflipping) but after some flips the walls and gates have no HP and the NPCs abandon the keep/tower for some time, making it unflippable and basicly a ruin.
  • in the scenario described above, repairing and holding the keep agains attackers, when already damaged due to a high flip rate, awards a higher ammount of WXP and event rewards.

If its unflippable why would people be attacking it? Also adding a event with a higher WXP rate would just make something new to farm no?

1st: they won’t attacking it, that’s the point.
2nd: I described it badly, I mean of course defending only damaged keeps/towers, due to frequent flipping. And abandoned keep/tower can not be defended or flipped of course.

However, an increased reward for broken keeps might actually lead to more abuse, you are right. Making 2 servers quickflip a fortification and then one earns the extended defense rewards, so that actually might be a bad idea…

Honestly I think they need to increase the rewards for defending allowing more WXP/XP ect per repel ticket. Also give more ways to gain that WXP while in that keep. Honestly after a few repel force ticks you should gain more then the team attacking and taking it.

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

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Posted by: Devanuze.8734

Devanuze.8734

I’ve just logged in to this happening in SM for the last 2 hours or so. Teams just standing in the top level of SM as the other caps it, personally i find the whole thing complete BS. I understand that the winners of the matchups wont be changed buts it just the principle that might grow.

One guild thought it would be nice to give away all of our EB last weekend (sunday) just so they could take it back for the wvw xp…

Moose Mickelson. Golfing at its finest

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

I think is totally wrong to not give info about who is doing it. You should definitely post here the Commander’s name, Guild names and Servers, even post the screencaps. If Anet can’t do anything about it(wich they could, if they have proof like the screencaps, everyone involved should get perma-ban) at least a lot of people get to know who are they.

You’re actually encouraging them to keep doing it by hiding they faces, if there’s no sort of punishment, there’s no problem on keep going. Its like arresting someone for robbery but instead of put him in jail you let him go, he will continue robbing tomorrow, cuz its ok. :/

Its against the CoC to call out individuals publicly so he would end up getting the thread closed. I asked him if he was still on a server to give an idea of what servers may have been involved and they can take care of it them selves.

Correct, I have no intention of doing a call out. Right now our WvW map chat is in shambles over this. The players cheating are cursing out the players telling them to stop. ArenaNet needs to get involved, they’re openly farming WvW talent points.

(edited by LeCreaux.3087)

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Posted by: Velzer.1325

Velzer.1325

I think is totally wrong to not give info about who is doing it. You should definitely post here the Commander’s name, Guild names and Servers, even post the screencaps. If Anet can’t do anything about it(wich they could, if they have proof like the screencaps, everyone involved should get perma-ban) at least a lot of people get to know who are they.

You’re actually encouraging them to keep doing it by hiding they faces, if there’s no sort of punishment, there’s no problem on keep going. Its like arresting someone for robbery but instead of put him in jail you let him go, he will continue robbing tomorrow, cuz its ok. :/

Its against the CoC to call out individuals publicly so he would end up getting the thread closed. I asked him if he was still on a server to give an idea of what servers may have been involved and they can take care of it them selves.

Correct, I have no intention of doing a call out. Right now our WvW map chat is in shambles over this. The players cheating are cursing out the players telling them to stop. ArenaNet needs to get involved, they’re opening farming WvW talent points.

Lol, OP is one funny guy.

Phasor Domain [TSYM]
Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

I think it was the right thing not calling out the servers

Says the person who was the first in the thread to name the server…

Hypocrite much?

Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

I think it was the right thing not calling out the servers

Says the person who was the first in the thread to name the server…

Hypocrite much?

Not directly, I looked at his past posts and saw that he referred to him self being and TC. I asked him if he is still on TC and he didn’t respond. Neither him or myself called out a server. Just because I asked a question with “TC” in it you assume that’s the correct answer and the server hes referring to.

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

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Posted by: lovand.6958

lovand.6958

It is TC where this is taking place. And I can tell you there is no secret plot or alliance. This started with a few people trying to decide how to spend the day. SoR has been trampling all week. TC for the most part has been getting Trampled along with SoS. The scores are 100% set in stone. Nothing anyone can do will change there place at this point between these 3 servers. TC, SoR and SoS at this point are trying to make the best of a bad match up. I am not one of the ones who started this nor have I been there the whole time but I do know why it got started which was stated above.

For those who are upset by this, I do humbly apologize.

~Lovand[MLPT]

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Posted by: Omnitek.3876

Omnitek.3876

Calling out servers isn’t against the CoC is it? I do it all the time.

So, TC and…. SoR or SoS? I wish I could control an EB zerg into not charging red names… Whoever the commander is, pls tell me the secret.

A L T S
Skritt Happens

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Posted by: Mif.3471

Mif.3471

I think it was the right thing not calling out the servers

Says the person who was the first in the thread to name the server…

Hypocrite much?

Not directly, I looked at his past posts and saw that he referred to him self being and TC. I asked him if he is still on TC and he didn’t respond. Neither him or myself called out a server. Just because I asked a question with “TC” in it you assume that’s the correct answer and the server hes referring to.

You can spin it any way you want, you’re still a kitten.

Tarnished Coast | Best cookies in all of Tyria

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Posted by: Zikory.6871

Zikory.6871

I think it was the right thing not calling out the servers

Says the person who was the first in the thread to name the server…

Hypocrite much?

Not directly, I looked at his past posts and saw that he referred to him self being and TC. I asked him if he is still on TC and he didn’t respond. Neither him or myself called out a server. Just because I asked a question with “TC” in it you assume that’s the correct answer and the server hes referring to.

You can spin it any way you want, you’re still a kitten.

Thanks! Can I be a tabby kitten though?

Edit:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/TCBL-before-reset/first#post2215836

Also here’s a new thread started on the same subject. That clearly calls out the server. At least I was a kitten about it. <—really wrote “kitten”

[KnT] – Knight Gaming – Blackgate
Zikory – Retired Thief
Zikkro – Zergling Necromancer

(edited by Zikory.6871)

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Posted by: lovand.6958

lovand.6958

Calling out servers isn’t against the CoC is it? I do it all the time.

So, TC and…. SoR or SoS? I wish I could control an EB zerg into not charging red names… Whoever the commander is, pls tell me the secret.

This was started as a mindless zerg. Not lying, when I first got started around 11 am server.. maybe a bit earlier, There was no Commander. At this point everyone is turning on there comms, well they were. I stopped about a hour ago.

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Posted by: Blackbeard.8510

Blackbeard.8510

I also reported the situation and send screenshots it did seems like a mindless zerg until they start saying otherwise and they also briefly spoke of doing this 7/7 – 24 a day… Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind this happening once out of luck however I fear without actions this could escalate into mere pve zombie grinding in a few weeks.

(edited by Blackbeard.8510)

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Posted by: ykyk.2740

ykyk.2740

It’s like…1 hour before reset in a match that was decided by the last weekend. Slippery slope doomsayers need to calm their kittens.

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Posted by: Esprit Dumort.3109

Esprit Dumort.3109

So do you punish just the commanders or everyone who is following?

Such a scheme can’t be done without the support of at least a few people to build the rams.

Jessamine [SNOW]
Gandara

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Posted by: dani.1956

dani.1956

Ban the abusers and players will stop doing it !
Who will risk a ban for 10 wvw lvls ?

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Posted by: Terrahero.9358

Terrahero.9358

Ban the abusers and players will stop doing it !
Who will risk a ban for 10 wvw lvls ?

A lot of people. Because WvW levels are something you grind, a mechanic that should never have been introduced, and grinding is boring. People would happily risk walking the shady side of the rules if it dramatically speeds up the grind.

Hammering down on people setting up WXP trains is just a temporary and rather poor solution. Infact, its not even a solution at all, people will just be smarter about it in the future.
The whole grind behind the WXP needs to change. I’d take the sledgehammer to the system and drag the broken pieces back to the drawingboard.

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

Ban the abusers and players will stop doing it !
Who will risk a ban for 10 wvw lvls ?

A lot of people. Because WvW levels are something you grind, a mechanic that should never have been introduced, and grinding is boring. People would happily risk walking the shady side of the rules if it dramatically speeds up the grind.

Hammering down on people setting up WXP trains is just a temporary and rather poor solution. Infact, its not even a solution at all, people will just be smarter about it in the future.
The whole grind behind the WXP needs to change. I’d take the sledgehammer to the system and drag the broken pieces back to the drawingboard.

yeah.. isn’t this WXP grind exactly what Anet said that we wouldn’t have to do in GW2… that grind would only be for aesthetics?

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Posted by: WitM.2308

WitM.2308

Umm… Friday karma trains are nothing new. Now they are of course Karma/wxp trains.

All you need is two servers who can’t be bothered defending and you can swap bls all day long. This was par for the course on a couple of servers a while back.

W.r.t. to the poster who said you can’t defend a point and get more for it than the attacker. Seriously? I’ll gladly trade wiping your zerg 5+ times in a 3 hour defense of our garrison to your 1 cap. In fact after about 15min of defending I will have more loot, and more wxp than you will get from the cap (I think it’s 9min before the defender wxp has ticked over, not counting kills, but my memory is crap and I can’t be bothered to check the numbers).

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Posted by: LameFox.6349

LameFox.6349

It must be complicated to introduce a grind in a system where the mobs can co-operate.

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Posted by: kurtosis.9526

kurtosis.9526

The whole grind behind the WXP needs to change. I’d take the sledgehammer to the system and drag the broken pieces back to the drawingboard.

Same. I’d love to see wxp awarded once a week on reset, based only on how your server did. You got 3rd? You get X wxp. 2nd? You get 2X wxp. 1st? You get 3X wxp. Plus a bonus of Y wxp per player based on how many WvW events/kills/achievements/metrics you completed that week. Have it come in the mail, soulbound but you can apply it to whichever character you want.

(edited by kurtosis.9526)

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Posted by: kurtosis.9526

kurtosis.9526

yeah.. isn’t this WXP grind exactly what Anet said that we wouldn’t have to do in GW2… that grind would only be for aesthetics?

For sure. Unbelievable how they’re managing to take what promised to be a groundbreaking game and make it just like the tired old crap they said they were trying to transcend. Ascended, WxP, what next.

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Posted by: kurtosis.9526

kurtosis.9526

Umm… Friday karma trains are nothing new. Now they are of course Karma/wxp trains.

It’s not just Friday anymore, it’s starting to happen even on reset night.

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Posted by: LameFox.6349

LameFox.6349

Have it come in the mail, soulbound but you can apply it to whichever character you want.

Why soulbound if you can apply it to any character anyway? Seems like account bound would be simpler, like the karma from dailies.

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Posted by: kurtosis.9526

kurtosis.9526

Have it come in the mail, soulbound but you can apply it to whichever character you want.

Why soulbound if you can apply it to any character anyway? Seems like account bound would be simpler, like the karma from dailies.

I meant account bound till applied – like Karma jugs basically. I just meant that WxP itself should stay character-based, not account-wide.

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Posted by: Aylaine.1036

Aylaine.1036

Have it come in the mail, soulbound but you can apply it to whichever character you want.

Why soulbound if you can apply it to any character anyway? Seems like account bound would be simpler, like the karma from dailies.

Absolutely ridiculous. This is NOT what TC should be doing, or any server for that matter. It’s makes me feel like WvW is turning into some crappy PvE farm train where no one actually does the content as intended, and simply exploits it to get items and experience in the most optimal way.

ANet, please adjust the matchmaking system. Give us T2 servers next week so we can make sure this habit dies. This only happens because of lop sided matchups. While I salute CD and SoS, I don’t think it’s fair to them either for us to not try & simply goof off in this manner either.

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Posted by: Thrumdi.9216

Thrumdi.9216

yeah.. isn’t this WXP grind exactly what Anet said that we wouldn’t have to do in GW2… that grind would only be for aesthetics?

For sure. Unbelievable how they’re managing to take what promised to be a groundbreaking game and make it just like the tired old crap they said they were trying to transcend. Ascended, WxP, what next.

Actually, it’s worse than the tired old crap.

What other AAA game awards endgame gear through daily quests? (Because that’s currently how WvW’ers get their Ascended gear).

Couple that with endless, endless WXP grind for skills that are now necessary in the siege-heavy environment, and you have a recipe for abuses.

Thrumdi, Captain of The Tarnished Coastguard

The ultimate GW2 troll.

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Posted by: VOLKON.1290

VOLKON.1290

Have a group that doesn’t approve drop a handful of ACs in a tower and wait for the loot bags to arrive.

#TeamJadeQuarry

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Posted by: Cameron.2315

Cameron.2315

Calling out servers isn’t against the CoC is it? I do it all the time.

So, TC and…. SoR or SoS? I wish I could control an EB zerg into not charging red names… Whoever the commander is, pls tell me the secret.

hahaha ALTS you know him well probably the best scout in the game

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Posted by: Mooodster.3470

Mooodster.3470

trading wins……could you explain how you trade wins when the points gap on friday was ohh something like 75k between 1st and 2nd? so no madder what happened at the time the score was only going to change by maybe 5k tops if one side managed to tick at 600+…also wanna know the difference between what they did and what havoc groups do idk every day of the week…

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Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Since the other thread was deleted, I’ll just say I agree with the player who said that anyone doing this should be reported and banned. It completely exploits the intent of WvW and turns it into a mindless grindfest, without any strategy or finesse. And if it’s to the extent that it’s coordinated with the other server involved via teamspeak, it’s even more heinous. Was very sad to hear this was happening on TC.

I agree with the poster a couple up from me though. If you are against it, get some friends together and build a dozen ACs and just farm these guys who come in expecting an empty tower. Coordinate. That will nip this inter-server farce in the butt quick when one side appears to be not “going along with the plan.” (Note: I suspect if they plan on doing this again, they won’t be so free in map chat about it. You can still get the ac’s together and farm them … the more often the “allied enemy” meets resistance, the quicker this alliance will fall, because the “agreement” will be voided, and there will be no guarantee of an empty tower to farm.)

L’enfer, c’est les autres

(edited by Jayne.9251)

Reported Win Trading today

in WvW

Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Calling out servers isn’t against the CoC is it? I do it all the time.

So, TC and…. SoR or SoS? I wish I could control an EB zerg into not charging red names… Whoever the commander is, pls tell me the secret.

It wasn’t SoS.

L’enfer, c’est les autres