Guild Wars 2

Seriously, this is getting beyond stupid. All I see is stunning hammer trains, everywhere. Remove the stun from earthshaker? Not sure if this is the way to go but a train of stun hammer is getting at the point of people leaving your game.

Make a boon that prevents you from being stunned. It’s just so simple!

move out of the hammer train direction it’s pretty simple, better guild still beat worse guild every single time, if you can see the deept of the combat it’s not other fault, there is count to hammer train both full melee group and splitted group with 50% melee, 50% range, learn more, get better, beat them.

Indeed, avoiding the stuns from the hammer-train is already quite easy, so don’t really see why they would need to do anything about it. Just use the hammer-trains weakness to your advantage.

Renny.6571:

Make a boon that prevents you from being stunned. It’s just so simple!

If they do that, they need to spread the boon around A LOT. Several classes don’t have their own form of stability while several others only have it in their elite or on a long cooldown.

If you want stability to be the counter to the hammer train then you need to give more stability. That or you do what every other MMO has done because they have a balance team worth two [censored]… simply remove the ability to counter CC for the classes you give the insane amounts of CC to. This is a group game, another class can provide it.

- Move out of the train (left or right of them)
- Dodge straight through the train
- Stability
- Stay at max range
- Spread out, if you all stop balling up the hammer train becomes ineffective.
- Spam clones. Nothing funnier than watching clones get earthshakered

To many people complain about things in this game that can be countered by playing better, instead they just scream for nerfs.

Atherakhia.4086:

Several classes don’t have their own form of stability while several others only have it in their elite or on a long cooldown.

…

This is a group game, another class can provide it.

/thread

aspirine.6852:

Seriously, this is getting beyond stupid. All I see is stunning hammer trains, everywhere. Remove the stun from earthshaker? Not sure if this is the way to go but a train of stun hammer is getting at the point of people leaving your game.

Really..we’re at this point now ?

" I have no clue what stability is..let’s just remove the stun from hammer"….

Strange, I don’t have issues with hammer trains. Just move out of the way, dodge through it, or pop stability. I’ve seen hammer trains get wrecked by engie comps, so stability isn’t required by any stretch.

Meh earthshaker stun isn’t problem. Problem is that warriors and guardians can take too much damage and warrior doesn’t care kitten about cc.

Fix retaliation (post crit lifesteal/heal changes) so that hammertrains can be aoe’d without the ranged being forced to stack to try and heal the perma ret. Unstacked ranged should be the answer, but horribly designed retaliation mechanics and uptime prevent the natural counter from being possible.

Kalan.9705:

Fix retaliation (post crit lifesteal/heal changes) so that hammertrains can be aoe’d without the ranged being forced to stack to try and heal the perma ret. Unstacked ranged should be the answer, but horribly designed retaliation mechanics and uptime prevent the natural counter from being possible.

There should never be an “answer”. Hard counters make life boring.

A well co-ordinated melee train should be able to defeat a less well co-ordinated group of ranged players.
And a well co-ordinated group of ranged should be able to defeat a badly co-ordinated melee train.

It should not be the case that melee can always be defeated by ranged players spreading. Not should it be the case that melee can always defeat ranged. Hard counter = bad.

As the game currently is, a well co-ordinated group of ranged players can definitely defeat a less well co-ordinated melee train.

I still wonder why they nerfed the damage instead of the stun… Anyway they could nerf both.

- Increasing Aoe limit to 10 or 15 for light classes would be a way to stop the perma WvW stacking
- Increase Meteor Shower damage by 25-33% would be another
- Reduce the HP differences between Light-Medium and Heavy classes.
- Stun Shield aoe skill for Guardians would be nice but then why would commanders use any other classes?

Here’s a novel idea that pretty much every MMO in existence has managed to figure out, hows about Diminishing returns and we could go a step further and make it so stuns stop stacking. CC should be used Tactically and shouldn’t have long durations, they should be used more like a hiccup to gain an brief advantage to help turn the tide of battle. Theres no need to remove the stun factor from Warriors, but the stacking part of it has gotta go, its not like Warrior will suddenly become useless and players will stop WvWing.

I know, common sense, who woulda thunk it.

The main issue with DR on CC is that most CC in this game already have very short duration. Adding DR on top of that would make people more or less totally immune to said CCs after just one or two hits.

There is more than enough ways to avoid/remove the CC, no need to make it useless.

They reduced the AoE limit to 5 targets due to technical limitations.
Maybe they could look into if it would be possible to raise it a little bit.
to get some counterplay to this tactic. If they could also make it so you may only revive downed players when out of combat.
And if you die force respawn in 10 seconds.
Then wvw could had been more about tactics than numbers.
Without the AoE limit 3 engineers could wipe an entire map blob with grenade barrage. To be honest that would had been much more fun.
There would be a reason to spread out. And think about what skills you are using.

I completely Disagree Krall, I to play a Warrior and there is NEVER a need for CC to last longer than a second or two, as I said above it should be used tactically to gain and edge in battle, it should not determine the battle. I know its a hard concept but players would actually have to think about when and where to use the CC rather than just smashing their faces on keyboards. Lets stop trying to water down MMO’s and bring some skill back to gaming.

Nuzt.7894:

I completely Disagree Krall, I to play a Warrior and there is NEVER a need for CC to last longer than a second or two, as I said above it should be used tactically to gain and edge in battle, it should not determine the battle. I know its a hard concept but players would actually have to think about when and where to use the CC rather than just smashing their faces on keyboards. Lets stop trying to water down MMO’s and bring some skill back to gaming.

And as I stated, most CC already have just a second or two duration, and thus, adding DR on them would make them completely useless almost at once.

Removing or increasing the aoe limit would force people to use strategy instead of stacking like a blob. It would make the battles seem more epic and fix a number of current issues that occur with stacking (perma stun, perma heal, battles where only the numbers determine the winner instead of the most skilled, etc).

I proposed in another thread that it be proportional to the class armor type.
Heavy armor: aoe limit: 5
Medium armor: aoe limit: 7
Light armor: aoe limit: 10
That would be a good place to start… 5-10-15 could be more interesting however.

Lol at the get out of the way comments. A train of 30 just is everywhere and yes I can dodge but only so much.
And my necro has so much access to stability of course.

Don’t like hammers/heavy trains? You should watch what VR does my brother.

aspirine.6852:

Lol at the get out of the way comments. A train of 30 just is everywhere and yes I can dodge but only so much.
And my necro has so much access to stability of course.

You can gain 50% uptime on stability from 1 trait line. That’s more than nearly every other class.

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

“Can’t fight back”

You can blind, block, dodge, evade, counter-CC, use stability, avoid with leaps/teleports.

You’re right, you’re utterly defenceless.

Ragnar.4257:

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

“Can’t fight back”

You can blind, block, dodge, evade, counter-CC, use stability, avoid with leaps/teleports.

You’re right, you’re utterly defenceless.

Of course they can use several other option to avoid the CC, that still doesn’t justify a stacking CC. WTF are players always so eager to make MMO’s ez mode, so you can’t stun someone for long durations … try using any of your other abilities you have available. There is never a good reason for stacking CC, if you can’t win without it then its a player issue not a game issue. Its not like all of a sudden your team can’t stack immob and theirs can.

buff the other classes to have viable builds for zergs and larger groupfights( some might will need a tone down in the 1v1 department in order to get the buffs),
make immobilize non stackable, get rid of perma fear, perma stun, perma interrupts, perma cc,
make warriors less godlike in wvw,
separate spvp balance from wvw balance
give every class viable aoe dmg
give other classes some love!

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

Your only focus is on the warrior. Lets add DR to CC only because of warrior and really because of 1 weapon. Hammer isn’t even a problem and merciless hammer promotes that you chain CC with the trait.

If you have a a problem with the CC in guild wars 2 its because your in a outnumbered situation alot. You do have to pick your battles. Immobilize is much worse if you don’t have the condi clears.

oZii.2864:

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

Your only focus is on the warrior. Lets add DR to CC only because of warrior and really because of 1 weapon. Hammer isn’t even a problem and merciless hammer promotes that you chain CC with the trait.

If you have a a problem with the CC in guild wars 2 its because your in a outnumbered situation alot. You do have to pick your battles. Immobilize is much worse if you don’t have the condi clears.

My only focus is on Warrior in this thread because the title is directed at Warriors, I’m all for DR on all forms of CC. I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been caught off guard and hit with a stacking CC, I still don’t believe there is a need for CC of any form to have extended duration’s.

Nothing needs done, this is just a learn to play issue.

the cc isnt problem. the problem is other things and classes are weak

Play a ranged class and kill them before they get to you. Hammer train = free kills.

Those of you who are getting smoked by these; I thought at the beginning of these fights you generally would pop some sort of stability so your not getting stunned.

Ragnar.4257:

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

“Can’t fight back”

You can blind, block, dodge, evade, counter-CC, use stability, avoid with leaps/teleports.

You’re right, you’re utterly defenceless.

I can blind, I can do most things. Well not teleport or block. The thing is you cannot blind a hammer train. You can dodge a few but as soon as you have dodged the rest comes in.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Play a ranged class and kill them before they get to you. Hammer train = free kills.

Those of you who are getting smoked by these; I thought at the beginning of these fights you generally would pop some sort of stability so your not getting stunned.

How you plan to kill them when you can only hit 5 and and even full glass cannons doesn’t really hurt full defense warriors and guardians that badly + train heals like crazy.

Next Thread: Too Many Mesmer Clones! Stop the Mesmer Train! I Can’t Find The Real One!

MMnecrospiritrangermesmertrain.

It may be that we’ve been matched against less than stellar guilds/groups, but I find that simply getting out of the way works pretty well. Most of those players just follow the tag/driver and a lot of times don’t even main warriors. They just follow and faceroll most times. So you can just get out of the way and get completely ignored, and blast them from the sides. The biggest reason these trains work – that I’ve seen – is people being unaware or simply don’t get out of the way and instead take a hammer to the face.

This is mostly an issue of learning how to counter. Anet has already dumbed down this game enough to the point where player skill doesn’t matter nearly as much as it should. If you can’t figure out how to avoid/counter a hammer train, you deserve to get smashed.

If you would have posted a thread asking how to counter it, instead of coming from the assumption that it cant’ possibly be you, but a broken mechanic, you would have received a lot more help.

Ragnar.4257:

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

“Can’t fight back”

You can blind, block, dodge, evade, counter-CC, use stability, avoid with leaps/teleports.

You’re right, you’re utterly defenceless.

yeah i’d like my godmode class to be implemented in my game it seems i dint get it due to some error i ll be waiting for it kthx -.-

snacktime.1082:

This is mostly an issue of learning how to counter. Anet has already dumbed down this game enough to the point where player skill doesn’t matter nearly as much as it should. If you can’t figure out how to avoid/counter a hammer train, you deserve to get smashed.

If you would have posted a thread asking how to counter it, instead of coming from the assumption that it cant’ possibly be you, but a broken mechanic, you would have received a lot more help.

the same is to be said backwards what skill is required when you’re in a group and they all are spamming the same 3-4 skills = AoE stun+knockdown+knockback+immobilize
and behind every warrior wall lies a necro wall stripping boons away and slapping dozens of AoE conditions

fact is the game got terribly unbalanced

options roll a new class or quit or wait for next patch and then choose class or quit

Make 1 million of these ridiculous forum posts and it matters not. Warriors are frontline melee and are structured to do just what they are doing, steamroll your face.

Warrior survivability is too high if you think how much dmg they can do. I don’t really want that they nerf hammer dmg or stun because i use hammer too, but they need to do something about survivability. It’s kind of boring when you don’t even need to dodge at all.

You want to stop hammer trains? Let’s handicap zerging as well, I like killing two birds with one stone.

Two words,

“Player collision”

Do it Anet! Do it!

Caliburn.1845:

You want to stop hammer trains? Let’s handicap zerging as well, I like killing two birds with one stone.

Two words,

“Player collision”

Do it Anet! Do it!

Hmm my overweight norn warrior would be so op. Swiftness on he would run through 30 asuras just like that.

Evertime I pug around in wvw my bearbow ranger keep getting wrecked by organized guild groups. I don’t bring stability or stun break because I play how I wan. Anet pls nerf

The solution is obviously to give all the other classes hammers as well. Necro with hammer, Mesmer with hammer, hell even thieves with hammers.

Oh except Engineers, who ever heard of Engineers using hammers haha… That’s just silly.

Renny.6571:

Make a boon that prevents you from being stunned. It’s just so simple!

huehuehue

Revolutionary. Anet, hire this guy!

I don’t mind hammers or CC’s in particular, but the general proliferation of heavy classes has gotten pretty noticeable. I’ve seen a number of guild groups run 90% warriors/guardians in their zergbusting and do it fairly effectively. The zerg vs. zerg meta right now is a bit too focused on tankiness and survivability, and it’s usually a battle of attrition/res banners. I wouldn’t mind a change to the dynamic that focuses a bit more on backline dps and group synergy (something beyond guardian, warrior, ele, and necro).

Stability,block,blind,dodge those are just 4 simple things to do when you spot earthshaker animation, but naaah you want to get away without pressing any button, sorry but you have to use your brain at least a little bit.

Be careful when mentioning AOE cap and how it relates to balance. People have been banned for talking about it.

AoE stuns should be well-telegraphed and on lengthy cooldowns.

Unfortunately they aren’t in GW2.

ANet can either reduce the amount of CC Hammers can apply, say by changing on the the stun-attacks into something else, or they can make Stability the only counter to CC more available to ALL classes (including Thieves).