Guild Wars 2

They won’t admit that their Esports concept is flawed, for the same reason anyone would deny that a pet concept of theirs has failed/will fail/is failing. A rather simple, one-syllable word, known as one of Christianity’s Seven Deadly Sins. Y’know, Pride.

And, yes, lordkrall is completely right that WvW was originally treated as a “casual” game mode. However, the major issue there is that it has since expanded beyond
anything the folks behind the server-racks could have predicted. It also doesn’t help
one whit that one of the first honest changes (namely, a reasonable-scale map alteration) has met with terrible flack.

Past that, it is an absolutely fair question to ask, RE: how much frigging pull certain pvp’ers have on the game’s direction entire. I’ve said for months, that the realistic order of who gets what should be:

1. PvE
2. WvW
3. PvP

Regardless of my personal conceits or foibles, that’s the most “fair” spread of population numbers in-game, and should serve as the benchmark. However, refer back to my original comment about Pride.

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

I didn’t like that que manipulation trick. I will never do it and will be at a disadvantage. I hope Anet fixes that exploit :/

Laurelinde.4395:

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

This exact line of thought it was causes a lot of the toxicity within the MMO industry. When community managers and developers decide to maintain their ivory tower approach those who have the same greviences as the most vocal of the community also tend to feel left out.

As you can see on these very forums this is not an isolated incident, there is a general feeling of uneasiness in the World vs World community at the moment and this will degrade over time to a form of loathing, it has happened in many other games.

The only way to counter this is with a forthright discussion with developers regarding the issues that are on the table at the moment – The other problem here is that companies generally tend to only invite nodding dogs to these kinds of discussions as they dont want to take too much stick or flack or sometimes don’t feel the need to broach the real subject behind a lot of the problems…

Well in case anet has any doubts, GW2 appears to be entering a crucial period a mere year after its release with both its competitive communities in crisis.

Aneu.1748:

Laurelinde.4395:

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

This exact line of thought it was causes a lot of the toxicity within the MMO industry. When community managers and developers decide to maintain their ivory tower approach those who have the same greviences as the most vocal of the community also tend to feel left out.

As you can see on these very forums this is not an isolated incident, there is a general feeling of uneasiness in the World vs World community at the moment and this will degrade over time to a form of loathing, it has happened in many other games.

The only way to counter this is with a forthright discussion with developers regarding the issues that are on the table at the moment – The other problem here is that companies generally tend to only invite nodding dogs to these kinds of discussions as they dont want to take too much stick or flack or sometimes don’t feel the need to broach the real subject behind a lot of the problems…

I should clarify, I am not suggesting that Anet shouldn’t address the issue at all. Obviously, WvW issues come up on the forums regularly and it is often the same ones which are repeated by a lot of people (eg support for GvG). I was more responding to the premise of the thread title in that I think their responses should be aimed at the community as a whole (or significant sections thereof) rather than individual players. So I would not expect a response directly referencing Sacrx’s video, but I would hope there would be discussion of some of the issues raised, in a more general sense. (Not that I am holding my breath, mind!)

Laurelinde.4395:

Aneu.1748:

Laurelinde.4395:

I think Anet probably have a policy of not ‘responding’ directly to call-outs of this kind because it could set a bad precedent. While Sacrx may know what he is talking about, I don’t think it would be the best business model to tacitly confirm that ‘sure, just make a video complaining about stuff and we will cater to your wants/needs.’ Just how ‘influential’ or ‘important’ would a poster need to be to merit Anet’s direct attention, to earn a dialogue? Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

This exact line of thought it was causes a lot of the toxicity within the MMO industry. When community managers and developers decide to maintain their ivory tower approach those who have the same greviences as the most vocal of the community also tend to feel left out.

As you can see on these very forums this is not an isolated incident, there is a general feeling of uneasiness in the World vs World community at the moment and this will degrade over time to a form of loathing, it has happened in many other games.

The only way to counter this is with a forthright discussion with developers regarding the issues that are on the table at the moment – The other problem here is that companies generally tend to only invite nodding dogs to these kinds of discussions as they dont want to take too much stick or flack or sometimes don’t feel the need to broach the real subject behind a lot of the problems…

I should clarify, I am not suggesting that Anet shouldn’t address the issue at all. Obviously, WvW issues come up on the forums regularly and it is often the same ones which are repeated by a lot of people (eg support for GvG). I was more responding to the premise of the thread title in that I think their responses should be aimed at the community as a whole (or significant sections thereof) rather than individual players. So I would not expect a response directly referencing Sacrx’s video, but I would hope there would be discussion of some of the issues raised, in a more general sense. (Not that I am holding my breath, mind!)

In every MMO there are “pillars” of the community that should be respected. Even if they may be egotistical crazies, their achievements give them clout and thus their points should be taken far more seriously than that of an “unknown” source so to speak.

Whether anyone wishes to agree with this or not is another topic all together but generally this is how an approach should be made towards these kinds of issues. Sacrx has the ear of a lot of people, he has the respect of a lot of people and even though quite a lot of people dislike him as a person that does not mean they respect him any less nor does it mean his points are any less valid. To not respond to his points is not just an insult to him it is an insult to anyone who puts the amount of effort into the game that he has and spreads the message of “We don’t particularly care about your input or your passion”. That is the wrong message to send.

SmoothHussler.6387:

Well in case anet has any doubts, GW2 appears to be entering a crucial period a mere year after its release with both its competitive communities in crisis.

Who knows? We might get lucky and this will be the wakeup call for their to dislodge their heads from their sphincters. Any company that thinks it knows what its customers want better than its customers is insane, and it’s crazy that Anet’s basically giving the middle finger to what is probably the most devoted casual PvP playerbase they have.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I don’t give a kitten about Red Guard, nor do I see why their opinions matter any more than even the least of any servers militia men, or a dev actually working on the game.

So they made a youtube marking their take of WvW progression. So what.

This.

Since when was ‘Sacrx’ speaking for everyone? Why would they give a response to one guy and not the next? Get over the ego.

Laurelinde.4395:

Like it or not, none of us is on their dev team no matter how good, bad, knowledgeable or crackpot of players we may be.

It’s because we’re not on the dev team that we’re asking these questions. These new buffs coming into play w/ Bloodlust, was it from a suggestion from the community? Do they ever really grab anything from the community? Like the commander tags, why is it that we can’t have it visible to our /squad exclusively per say, since that command is completely useless at the moment, it would give purpose to /squad talk.

Every move Anet has made so far has been in the interest of what they want to do. We’ve all paid to play, a good amount of us have paid gems for small in game luxuries, knowing it’s really to help the company progress. Why CAN’T I ask about a game mode I’m interested in? If there is REAL progress, not some untested patch in that will introduce even more problems, when there we’re many other issues to begin with.

It’ll be sad too, if Anet is really funneling us to play PvP. They have something good in WvW, and GvG. The GvG community organized a system to keep track of matches on their own. Guilds are communicating across servers to accomplish this, and if that isn’t a show of dedication and interest from the community then I don’t know what is. It really is a missed opportunity.

I don’t really expect an official response, but I thought I’d try anyway. At the very least, as a community, we’ve shown our concern and interest in WvW. If that isn’t enough to take us serious, then on to the next game.

Neandramathal.9536:

Ross Biddle.2367:

I don’t give a kitten about Red Guard, nor do I see why their opinions matter any more than even the least of any servers militia men, or a dev actually working on the game.

So they made a youtube marking their take of WvW progression. So what.

This.

Since when was ‘Sacrx’ speaking for everyone? Why would they give a response to one guy and not the next? Get over the ego.

Because he and his guild mates have achieved what you and many others have not and that includes international renown and respect from a vast majority of those who put huge swathes of effort and passion in to WvW.

While you may flit in and out of World vs World on a whim there are guilds that dedicated almost every evening they have to entering World vs World and putting their all into it. Guilds that dedicate their time and effort into creating structures that make it more fun and efficient. Guilds that bring the passion into the game that is missing and guilds that create the competition when there is none. The effort required for any of this is gargantuan and to say that you, or another “individual” who does not put this effort in should be treated equally to those of us who actually do put that effort in is simply a joke.

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

That would take players out of their precious conquest mode so no new modes are going to happen

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Not everyone plays the same. My guild and I enjoy what we do and we do it with just as much ‘passion’ as the next person, it simply is a different way of playing to what you do, that doesn’t make it inferior or deserving of being treated different. We used to go into WvW every minute we were online, not just every night, and we ALWAYS put our full effort into it. We had plenty of ‘respect and renown’ on the servers we played on/against. Difference was that because we are a small guild it was smaller servers, so what? Only reason we don’t go into WvW as much anymore is because these smaller servers suddenly weren’t so small after a lot of server hopping. We played with plenty of passion and had lots of fun, there was no need to make it “more fun”, if anything the players themselves made it LESS fun.

Example, last night we tried to have some small scale fights (2v2-5v5) with other guilds we know on the lower tier servers, only to find every single zone had GvG’s in it and so there was a) queues, and b) no room at the windmill. So we did it round the corner with very little room to move, only to find once the GvGer’s had finished they came and killed us… we respected their GvG, why don’t they respect ours? Their response “We are just having fun”.

Regardless of anything else, we are players exactly the same as the next person. No one should be treated any differently.

People got banned because of the relation with the leaked patch notes. If you guys fail to understand that then that’s your loss.

I really don’t care for Sacrx and don’t put him on a pedestal. 250,000 kills? All you need is
1.) A relatively organized guild to field sufficient numbers (+20).
2.) Time
3.) Be a staff guardian

Now I known of Red Guard since WAR but I’m sure as hell won’t want Anet to pander to one person’s opinion. That’s the worst thing they can do.

I personally don’t care of the GvG but it also doesn’t help that many of the most vocal proponents are immature and annoying. I watching the patch stream and having to deal with well over two dozen people spamming GvG related messages. You think that helps your community? You think you are going to get support from those who don’t care for GvG, let alone get support from the same developers who have the capability of designing something? I sure as hell wouldn’t want to partake in a community that does that. But of course, I’m sure it’s a minority. There are proponents that support GvG. But you guys are totally unreasonable.

Anet has already said that they know there is demand for GvG. They are not ignoring you. But the WvW team is responsible for WvW. Not GvG. They most likely have plans on what is coming out in 6 and 12 months. How disruptive is it to put that aside for GvG? You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is? That kitten doesn’t get built up in a few months.

I agree that the WvW team should design stuff for WvW, not GvG. Even if it comes to the detriment to GvG. Again, it’s not their job to focus on that.

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

Neandramathal.9536:

Not everyone plays the same. My guild and I enjoy what we do and we do it with just as much ‘passion’ as the next person, it simply is a different way of playing to what you do, that doesn’t make it inferior or deserving of being treated different. We used to go into WvW every minute we were online, not just every night, and we ALWAYS put our full effort into it. We had plenty of ‘respect and renown’ on the servers we played on/against. Difference was that because we are a small guild it was smaller servers, so what? Only reason we don’t go into WvW as much anymore is because these smaller servers suddenly weren’t so small after a lot of server hopping. We played with plenty of passion and had lots of fun, there was no need to make it “more fun”, if anything the players themselves made it LESS fun.

Example, last night we tried to have some small scale fights (2v2-5v5) with other guilds we know on the lower tier servers, only to find every single zone had GvG’s in it and so there was a) queues, and b) no room at the windmill. So we did it round the corner with very little room to move, only to find once the GvGer’s had finished they came and killed us… we respected their GvG, why don’t they respect ours? Their response “We are just having fun”.

Regardless of anything else, we are players exactly the same as the next person. No one should be treated any differently.

You can by all means fool yourself into believing that you put the same amount of effort into the game as some of the top guilds. That is down to you, but that is not the way the world works.

This is not to say you don’t put effort in, just by posting on these forums you put more effort into the game than most of its players but being a realist its hard for anyone to say they put the same amount of effort into the game as some of the top WvW guilds, again this is not a time issue, this is about effort. (And even in your signature it states you are “Semi-active” so why should you expect to be treated the same?)

Neandramathal.9536:

Not everyone plays the same. My guild and I enjoy what we do and we do it with just as much ‘passion’ as the next person, it simply is a different way of playing to what you do, that doesn’t make it inferior or deserving of being treated different. We used to go into WvW every minute we were online, not just every night, and we ALWAYS put our full effort into it. We had plenty of ‘respect and renown’ on the servers we played on/against. Difference was that because we are a small guild it was smaller servers, so what? Only reason we don’t go into WvW as much anymore is because these smaller servers suddenly weren’t so small after a lot of server hopping. We played with plenty of passion and had lots of fun, there was no need to make it “more fun”, if anything the players themselves made it LESS fun.

Example, last night we tried to have some small scale fights (2v2-5v5) with other guilds we know on the lower tier servers, only to find every single zone had GvG’s in it and so there was a) queues, and b) no room at the windmill. So we did it round the corner with very little room to move, only to find once the GvGer’s had finished they came and killed us… we respected their GvG, why don’t they respect ours? Their response “We are just having fun”.

Regardless of anything else, we are players exactly the same as the next person. No one should be treated any differently.

I don’t think Sacrx is the one looking for a response. I’m sure a large portion of the wvw community wants one regarding the revelations in his video though…

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

Vol.5241:

You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is?

Given the rate that PvE content gets produced, I would say that infact it would only take about 2 months for them to set GvG up, if they really wanted it to happen.

But they don’t. They want WvW to be a casual zerg-fest, and all the hardcore and semi-hardcore players to go prop up sPvP.

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

^this

I also dont get why anyone even cares about SPVP, i mean both wvw and Spvp r nothing but PPT games, based around tryin to avoid combat so you can get more points and win. The only dif from wvw and Spvp is one is about coverage.

i remember when PVP was all about fighting ppl and not avoiding combat. O how i miss thos days

Vol.5241:

I agree that the WvW team should design stuff for WvW, not GvG. Even if it comes to the detriment to GvG. Again, it’s not their job to focus on that.

The problem stems from them designing things that comes to the detriment of World vs World. Ignore GvG, those who wish to do it will continue to do it no matter a buff or not but the problem remains that the WvW team are showing too much ignorance and a complete lack of respect towards the community by implementing something that was taken out because it created a snowball effect for the strongest servers.

The Orb buff and Outmanned buffs are backwards. We were advised that WXP% buff on the Orb would be inconsequential and wouldn’t affect the “fight” as Devon said it – The problem is that buff shouldn’t affect the “fight” because it allows strong servers to become stronger and what is even more absurd is that the outmanned buff is one that doesn’t directly affect the “fight” when it should!

Is anyone actually asking for a gvg format? What I get from the recent threads and Sacrx’s video is that people want fun, balanced open field fights, less emphasis on siege and more efforts from anet to encourage competitive wvw, instead of casual play.

Ragnar.4257:

Vol.5241:

You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is?

Given the rate that PvE content gets produced, I would say that infact it would only take about 2 months for them to set GvG up, if they really wanted it to happen.

But they don’t. They want WvW to be a casual zerg-fest, and all the hardcore and semi-hardcore players to go prop up sPvP.

Why allocate a lot of resources to the smaller playerbase? It’s not efficient. GW2 playerbase is largely PvE and that’s how they release content for it. I bet they even get most of their money from the PvE crowd.

How can you confirm that GW2 playerbase is largely PvE?

One sure thing is PvE and casual players put more money into gem store.

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

And if they push them out WvW full be empty as they wont go to spvp.
There is where their logic fails

They will not address it. To do so will validate it.

The wheels are falling off this puppy and the pvp community will move to a more welcoming environment. Being funnelled in to a crappy game mode in order to make it popular isn’t going to retain population.

Vol.5241:

Ragnar.4257:

Vol.5241:

You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is?

Given the rate that PvE content gets produced, I would say that infact it would only take about 2 months for them to set GvG up, if they really wanted it to happen.

But they don’t. They want WvW to be a casual zerg-fest, and all the hardcore and semi-hardcore players to go prop up sPvP.

Why allocate a lot of resources to the smaller playerbase? It’s not efficient. GW2 playerbase is largely PvE and that’s how they release content for it. I bet they even get most of their money from the PvE crowd.

I won’t disagree with the comment since we dont know. What I will say is that the living story is finite content, it isnt reused and it takes quite a large amount of time to create content that is generally eaten up by the masses in a couple of days and then ignored. If you feel this is a great prioritisation of work then we can obviously stop this discussion here. Putting even 1/3 of the amount of development into WvW that has been done to the living story would create a thriving WvW community (that is growing even though we are left at the way side). Even if they simply dedicated another team towards WvW updates and content for at least a couple of months this would be a start and an olive branch to show us, the community, that we aren’t the red headed stepchild that we believe we are.

Pryda.8257:

How can you confirm that GW2 playerbase is largely PvE?

One sure thing is PvE and casual players put more money into gem store.

Anet will never confirm the numbers but you can just look for yourself throughout the world @ the # of people in towns, doing metas, doing dungeons, LS, e.t.c.

I’m sure there are PvE players that do WvW on the side (such as I) but I’m talking about hours dedicated. I’m sure there are more hours dedicated to PvE than WvW on each server.

TBH i think Guild wars has a better chance at making the classic 8v8 GvG’s into an Esport instead of Spvp. Anet is putting to many eggs into the Spvp Basket from the first day of the game. All other forms of PvP have suffered. I think getting a GvG system into the game is a smart thing to do, However dont make it 100% Deathmatch make it combo of Capture the flag/ Deathmatch/ and Keeplord Destruction like in GW1. Stop Pushing for Spvp to make you millions Anet your just ruining your community.

Pryda.8257:

How can you confirm that GW2 playerbase is largely PvE?

One sure thing is PvE and casual players put more money into gem store.

Haha, can’t tell if first question is serious…

As for the thing about gems, I’m sure most of the GvG community was also stating they buy the most gems with all their server hopping.

Then again i guess i should have taken it lightly, A lot of them seem to just pull random percentages out of thin air.

Sarrs.4831:

SmoothHussler.6387:

Well in case anet has any doubts, GW2 appears to be entering a crucial period a mere year after its release with both its competitive communities in crisis.

Who knows? We might get lucky and this will be the wakeup call for their to dislodge their heads from their sphincters. Any company that thinks it knows what its customers want better than its customers is insane, and it’s crazy that Anet’s basically giving the middle finger to what is probably the most devoted casual PvP playerbase they have.

Let’s hope so. Right now I see this game going down the same road that D3 was before. Never listening to the community on what it wants. Telling you how you should play the game and ignoring the customer’s concerns. People were leaving in droves and they were losing a ton of money. They eventually woke up and fired Jay Wilson. But by the time that happened, there were very few people left who still cared and the game is pretty much dead now except for a few hardcore fans who stuck through it.

Again, GvG is just a consequence of ridicolous design directions taken during development, never fixed YET pointed back in alpha by testers like sacrx.

PPT, Zerg and Coverage and Siege War aren’t what the Massive World PvP crowd were looking for.
The DaoC and WAR playerbase which was hoping in Gw2 to finally have the first next-gen MMO with 3 way RvR would have never submit to that. Either quitting (the amount of guilds lost due to horrible development directions, especially in first 6 months, is astonishing) or working around that. With things like GvG.

Now, again, GvG is not what the is discussion is about.
But it does have a role in the grand scheme of things – which Anet would actually be better unveil for clarity’s sake.

Sacrx points out that “Anet said that WvW in their eyes not only is meant to be causal zergfest, but actually they want hardcore to stay away from it to funnel them in the esport spvp”.
If that’s even half true, i can tell ya that more than half dedicated wvw guild (at least from my perspective, and SFR do have quite some guilds) would quit altoghether. Because spvp is crap, face it for once, and they would rather quit the game insted of playing it – especially if your tactic is “Let’s destroy GvG dumb down wvw and make it as zergy and siege based as possible to drive them away from it and force them to spvp”.

And even if wvw is a casual zergfest, without the backbone made by dedicated and expert ppl, it will crumble like a card castle.

So actually, Anet troughout this 12 months and more, considering alphas and developemnt, hampered the mode with most potential (WvW) arbitrarly deciding “It’s for causal nothign worth time or money investiment”, to favour instead the one made with esport status in mind (spvp) but so flawed to the core that after BWE1 pvpers verdict was already “It will never make it. Change up mode or gtfo”.
That’s quite sad and disheartning.

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Ragnar.4257:

Vol.5241:

You are asking for an entirely different game mode, probably an entire different map for you folks. And then you’d have to design an entire different interface, probably with leaderboards and such. You know how much of an undertaking that is?

Given the rate that PvE content gets produced, I would say that infact it would only take about 2 months for them to set GvG up, if they really wanted it to happen.

But they don’t. They want WvW to be a casual zerg-fest, and all the hardcore and semi-hardcore players to go prop up sPvP.

Why allocate a lot of resources to the smaller playerbase? It’s not efficient. GW2 playerbase is largely PvE and that’s how they release content for it. I bet they even get most of their money from the PvE crowd.

I won’t disagree with the comment since we dont know. What I will say is that the living story is finite content, it isnt reused and it takes quite a large amount of time to create content that is generally eaten up by the masses in a couple of days and then ignored. If you feel this is a great prioritisation of work then we can obviously stop this discussion here. Putting even 1/3 of the amount of development into WvW that has been done to the living story would create a thriving WvW community (that is growing even though we are left at the way side). Even if they simply dedicated another team towards WvW updates and content for at least a couple of months this would be a start and an olive branch to show us, the community, that we aren’t the red headed stepchild that we believe we are.

I agree about the temporary content, and so does Anet. That’s why they are starting to release permanent content, starting with the Scarlet invasions. We can only look forward now and see what they come up with.

They have done a great job at releasing WvW content and QOL changes considering the size of the playerbase and the dev team. They had an overhaul of the WvW interface, the ranks and rewards, new siege mechanics and skills. Now we are looking at a near overhaul of borderland maps. That may seem like a few bullet points but that stuff takes time.

And that’s why I think the GvG proponents are unreasonable. You don’t just come up with GvG stuff in a couple of months. That takes time to plan out, design, test and make sure that when it’s released, the majority of the GvGers don’t come out and whine how terrible it is.

Sure the best solution is to just keep all the devs as is and hire an entirely new team but in the corporate world that just doesn’t happen unless you’re a blue chip firm.

A lot of people in this thread seem to not have actually watched the video and are falsely making assumptions about its content.

Its not just a piece of opinions. He shares some of his opinions, but he also reveals some events that happend in the past. For example back in Alpha.

These are not opinions, this is stuff that happend and things that were actually said by devs. And even if you completely disregard all his opinions, the facts are pretty disturbing aswell.
How a miniscule portion of the spvp community basicly got elevated on a pedestal, allowed to dictate the meta and given headstarts and early warnings about upcomming changes. To name one.

How devs flat out refuse to take criticism and shove a frontman for the masses to just carrot on a stick players. How there is a constant drive to just get players into spvp. How WvW was deliberately left with many glaring issues, some of which can simply never be fixed anymore.
How arenanet refused to attempt any form of balance for WvW (point in case, perplexity runes for over a month now)

How the devs flat out refuse to acknowledge spvp as an esport has failed, and sacrificed other gamemodes that have proven far more popular for the sake of spvp esport.

These things alone i find very shocking, wether or not i agree with his opinions.

Ross Biddle.2367:

I don’t give a kitten about Red Guard, nor do I see why their opinions matter any more than even the least of any servers militia men, or a dev actually working on the game.

So they made a youtube marking their take of WvW progression. So what.

I wholeheartedly agree with these statements. I couldn’t care less about him and/or his guild, their opinions, actions et cetera.

Why on earth does ArenaNet have to ‘officially respond’?

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

Its too late to go back. Anet had a dream that sPvP would be E-sports. They backed the wrong horse over a year ago. The game has existed for too long to back the right horse.

Vol.5241:

They have done a great job at releasing WvW content and QOL changes considering the size of the playerbase and the dev team. They had an overhaul of the WvW interface, the ranks and rewards, new siege mechanics and skills.

wut?

Adding a few extra tabs to the scoreboard is something an intern knocks up in an afternoon while bored. It can’t even be classed as content, and describing it as an “overhaul” is PR bullkitten.

The new BL-maps do look excellent, and I can appreciate why they take a while to create. But aside from the removal of culling, it will be the only extensive update so far.

Vol.5241:

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

I’m fairly certain you are referring to our GvG’s from the other night. If I remember correctly we were winning by 100k+ at that point, on top of that we sent all our non-participating members/spectators to assist. I fail to see how we would fit as a good example for your post.

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

It’s nice of them as a guild to have contributed to WvW. But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference. You need pugs to do work as well, and scouts. Not to mention all those not in the guild that help with supply/reps. There is a reason SoR TS is open and many guild channels are open for pugs to join in.

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

In the end, at this rate and their timeframe of working on things, they will lose the Top Guilds anyway. Your precious Point Tick, where no one cares about, will be lost nevertheless.

Hoots.9564:

Vol.5241:

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

I’m fairly certain you are referring to our GvG’s from the other night. If I remember correctly we were winning by 100k+ at that point, on top of that we sent all our non-participating members/spectators to assist. I fail to see how we would fit as a good example for your post.

I think it was a Sunday, so the scores were pretty fresh.

If you sent in your non-participating members then I see that as a welcome compromise. I do remember TW(L) coming over and wiping them near the SE gate

Now what if those players were not enough to wipe them out? What if you had to take your whole guild over there to even have a chance at cleaning up the mess? Would you ever put GvG over a keep (even at T1)?

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

It’s nice of them as a guild to have contributed to WvW. But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference. You need pugs to do work as well, and scouts. Not to mention all those not in the guild that help with supply/reps. There is a reason SoR TS is open and many guild channels are open for pugs to join in.

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

here is a question for you

How many hours a day or a week do you put into wvw?? since you said u spend alot of your time doing PVE content. I am asking you this question cause the guild your commenting on puts in 8-15 hours a day, in all timezones.

Just wondering why its ok for you to take hours off to do things to have fun, but its not alright for them to take a single hour and have a open field fight of equal numbers

BTW SOR IS winning by over 100k and will win this match up on coverage alone.So they were not hurting anything

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

It’s nice of them as a guild to have contributed to WvW. But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference. You need pugs to do work as well, and scouts. Not to mention all those not in the guild that help with supply/reps. There is a reason SoR TS is open and many guild channels are open for pugs to join in.

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

Well if its about the server why is it ok for you to go out of World vs World and PVE, why is that ok for you to do? You should be in World vs World representing your server!

Absolute nonsense. World vs World is about my guild. I am the guild leader of VoTF and we go to World vs World for ourselves. We like the community that we are in but that comes secondary. A single guild can also quite easily carry a single borderland on their own, we do it ourselves often.

This is not a personal attack but you need to understand what you are doing here. You are expecting others to do what you yourself will not do. You are expecting them to give up what they find fun in order to generate fun for you, when it is only a single hour in a week long event you complain about it. This is called hypocrisy. You talk about being a community but your actions aren’t one of someone who wishes a community to remain strong and united.

But once again this thread descends into the GvG v WvW discussion when both are part and the same of what this game is. Back on to the topic of getting the WvW points addressed if you please?

Vol.5241:

But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference.

Then having the guild GvG’ing or not shouldn’thave any impact on perfomance, right?
Or, to keep GvG out of this thread: it’s obviously false. Having a raiding guild group on the map can make a massive difference.

Vol.5241:

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

This sounds tbh like the NA view of WvW that somebody brought up few times ago in the “How WvW is seen EU vs. NA”.

And everybody knows that Anet will care only of NA T1 for the WvW stuff.

WvW is the playfield of the whole server, yes, but a server community is a banding of multiple guilds, not a shapeless number of random ppl.
At least, that’s how EU rolls – Vizuna aside.

Ok, i want to give my thoughts on Sacrx video, and on some points he has stated.
His video is quite lenghty, it isn’t really well structured or made. He just rants about several facts and tells some stories back from the alpha days.

He pointed out correctly, that the basic core mechanics are good, maybe the best out there right now. The combat system itself is quite fun, engaging and somewhat competetive (balanced) on a larger scale. But as he stated, the rest is absolute kitten. It begins with inflated armor stats, orb buffs, bad siege mechanics, goes on to massive bugs, flaws and technical issues they failed to fix for a long time and still haven’t (queue issues, group party bug etc etc) and ends with features they add(ed) or promised (commander tag/system rework, the actual orb mechanic (ctf-mode inside WvW) and so on).

Anyone who can add one and one together, sees that ArenaNet not only fails to understand their community, they don’t even understand their own game. They have no idea about large scale combat (20vs20 for example) and its issues, they have no idea about ranking/ladder, they have no idea about wall-to-ground-combat (shoot up the wall vs shooting down) and they certainly don’t know siege weapons. Or has anyone traited oil-mastery yet?
When I see a showcase of some new PvE-content, and I see a dev clicking skills on his skillbar with a mouse, well I certainly don’t see experts doing their job then.
Many great guild and communities already quit WvW or the entire game, not only they had to experience game breaking bugs but also because they felt ignored and overlooked.
So many great suggestions came from within the community, but ArenaNets job of communicating with the community is kitten poor, and all the ideas were just a waste of time.

They desperately tried to bring sPvP up, but with their lack of understanding PvP and what PvP means, they just made fools of themselves, climaxing in that PAX-final. As a WvW-player you see this and ask yourself: “really? all these resources, this whole time and they just made it worse”

What we have right know are some leftovers. People who’re playing the PvP modes (sPvP and WvW) because there is nothing really out there which provides PvP like this.
But instead of improving their game experience where it is actually good, ArenaNet desperately tries to forces us into certainy playstyle, which nobody likes anymore. Once a reasonable alternative pops up, the devs will regret the majority of choices they did over the last year, you can quote me on that.

And of course, we have these people who still haven’t realised that every two weeks they just get another meaningless PvE carrot, on which they can grind their kitten off.
I accidentally participated in the grenth temple event last week, and it was horrible. How people can actually enjoy such “events” for more than 5minutes is beyond my mind. It wasn’t even something I would consider a game anymore.

tl;dr
The devs can’t handle their game.

SykkoB.9465:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

Vol.5241:

Aneu.1748:

UrMom.4205:

I got nothing against GvG, but at the same time if they put in some sort of spvp style gvg arena wouldn’t that take a lot of players out of WvW? That would make WvW worse for a lot of players.

Lets not try to derail this thread. This has very little, if anything at all, to do with GvG.

Of course it has to do with this thread, how can not miss it?

Introduce GvG and the WvW guilds that are into it will probably spend less time fielding the battle and heading over to GvG.

Assuming Anet makes GvG scores separate from WvW then it’s going to hurt your PPT and ranking.

The reason GvG shouldnt be involved in this thread is specifically because of posts like yours. If you understood how GvG worked you would understand that guilds arent exclusively GvG guilds but WvW guilds who do a bit of GvG on the side. No guild will be 100% into GvG as such WvW would not actually see a drop in activity from the guilds that participate in it since 99% of their time is spent playing WvW and not GvGing.

Also I don’t think I know anyone who actually cares about PPT or ranks anymore…

I’m aware of GvG but I do not participate in it (because I don’t like restricting myself to the rules of WvW-only guilds). I’m well aware that many WvW guilds participate in GvG. We actually had the other day one guild on SoR that was participating in GvG asked the other players on the map to protect Bay where we were getting sieged on inner.

That’s a prime example of WvW guilds putting GvG first. It will get worse if they introduce a GvG arena/map separate from WvW with no influence on scores.

So a guild that puts huge amounts of effort into WvW asks for other people to defend a keep that they most likely took while they spend an hour enjoying their time in WvW and you think this is somehow wrong of them. Why is it that they should give up that single hour of fun for themselves in order to support you when you won’t support them in that single hour. This argument is absurd and again one of the reasons GvG shouldn’t be discussed in a topic such as this.

It’s nice of them as a guild to have contributed to WvW. But one guild on one map doesn’t make a difference. You need pugs to do work as well, and scouts. Not to mention all those not in the guild that help with supply/reps. There is a reason SoR TS is open and many guild channels are open for pugs to join in.

WvW is called WvW because it’s about the server, not the individual guild. The server helped as a whole to get to where it is, so I expect the server as a whole to help defend it’s positions.

here is a question for you

How many hours a day or a week do you put into wvw?? since you said u spend alot of your time doing PVE content. I am asking you this question cause the guild your commenting on puts in 8-15 hours a day, in all timezones.

Just wondering why its ok for you to take hours off to do things to have fun, but its not alright for them to take a single hour and have a open field fight of equal numbers

BTW SOR IS winning by over 100k and will win this match up on coverage alone.So they were not hurting anything

I don’t WvW during the week because I have work. Reset nights (if I can get in) I’m in there for 5 hours. Saturdays/Sundays at least 5 hours each.

I don’t care if TW (or any other guild, I’m not criticizing yours or never did I want to identify you guys) decides to do something over than spend time in WvW. If you choose to do sPvP or PvE instead of WvW, by all means.

But if you’re queued up in a WvW zone I’d hope you’d use that slot for actual wvw’ing. Granted, during that time there were no queues.

I don’t think people would appreciate it if I were to waste a spot in borderlands by being afk, farming krait for scales or toiling in the jumping puzzles. Spots are limited and I understand that.