Guild Wars 2

I’m disappointed with mirage too for a lot of reasons.

I haven’t had a chance to play it in the open world stress tests, but I thought the super speed made up for the distance pretty well? But maybe it only felt ok for PvP.

I’m with Refia that “punished” is subjective.

But I think we all agree that the “punishment” doesn’t fit the crime?

40% drop isn’t exactly a fair trade for the first two shatters. Although, I do agree with the “Panic Button” from distortion, and to a lesser degree break bar damage from diversion should come at a cost.

But much like warrior getting max adrenaline and sitting there, that is the exact situation we have now.

I agree that if you want to spec for shatters you should be able to, but making shatters viable PvE is going to be hard, and I doubt A-net would rework them to do it.
Unless we either passively gain illusions at little to no cost like thief ini, or like hitting/getting hit like warrior, or perhhaps spend them a lot slower as a resource like: one illusion = full shatter effect. Which as Esplen mentioned could be added through a shatter based trait. It is doubtful a power based buff to mind wrack, or cry of confusion will ever be worth while compared to phantasms…
(Unless maybe you give them enough baseline utility or functionality so the cost is going into something other than damage, which is why distortion doesn’t feel as bad in PvE.)

So assuming we are staying phantasm regardless, I don’t think it’s reasonable to tell us to never use our F skills, and half our weapon skills, and it be called “fine”.

In addition, even if you can argue that other classes are (subjectively) punished for using their class mechanic, none are punished for using their weapons skills. Which OP’s suggestion would fix.

The idea that you can Illusionary leap for whatever reason, or illusionary riposte, lose 25 stacks, then re-summon, to then have to re-ramp the one phantasm again is pretty unacceptable to me. Losing the phantasm until you have to resummon it should be enough “punishment” for that action, and is a “punishment” on par with what everyone else has to give up for an action.

Esplen.3940:

Mikkel.8427:

I know how well power Mesmer is performing post balance update. I agree that the suggested changes to this trait are unnecessary.

You shouldn’t be out-performing the other DPS by such a large margin, though. It appears as though your DPS meter is not picking up all the data.

In most encounters, you need to ramp up (summon phants, build up adrenalin/rage, precast overloads, etc). However, there are many encounters where you can ignore this as a Mesmer and hold the same 3 Phantasms up for the entire fight (VG, Sloth, KC, Sab) which allows you to have peak DPS (assuming buffs are being spread to you) at all times.

Additionally, ~40% of your DPS is always hitting, which means if you go down, need to move, or have to focus on a mechanic, you’re still hitting for 40% of your DPS whereas other classes are sometimes doing nothing.

And on fights like Sloth where he goes to sleep, he also dispels all conditions on him, which eats pretty heavily into condition damage output, whereas the Phantasms are still out and ready to continue the punishment when he wakes up.

This is a pretty reasonable argument.

But the problem remains that at least half of our shatters feel bad to use.

Maybe our damage post patch is better and I may have overstated my claim earlier.
However even if we can say the output we currently do is relatively balanced in the context of the content, and we are able to achieve this with a fully supported group; given it’s very restrictive, and kind of limited(?) nature, why would reducing the unwieldy re-ramp be such a big deal? Why is that OP?
OP’s suggestion nets the same thing just less restrictive.

We cannot re-summon without dropping DPS, we cannot create a clone without dropping DPS, both of which take up half our weapon slot skills (excluding auto attack), and as established we cannot shatter without losing our DPS… So all we can do is drop wells? Frankly this seems like poor design.

If our current possible supported output is OP then balance needs to be done sure, but actively removing counter intuitive design isn’t a bad thing and would just make playing it more fun.

I like this suggestion a lot, I don’t understand the comments on how or why this would be OP?

Even if you let us ramp up faster, and reduce how quickly we have to re-ramp, our DPS is still not great compared to everyone else; it’s just easier, less fickle, and ultimately would be a much more fun way to do the exact same job we already do.

Did you mean to “only” increase to the duration of the phantasm’s conditions?
If so that might be fine. Otherwise I’d object for PvP.

I concede that he didn’t do a very good job, and he should never have made comments regarding balance. There is no problem calling him out on that.

However I still think there is a little to much shade being thrown, but it’s fine I guess, if a bit toxic…

Esplen.3940:

Daishi.6027:

Maybe don’t assume bad intentions over ignorance and neglect?

Either way he doesn’t explode my “bias against mes” meter.

The problem is that he’s become a “pillar of the community”. His core community believes what he says, so if he says that Mirage is OP and the fastest wildest spec in the eastern deserts, as fast as mounts, then people will believe that.

As to whether or not the devs take his opinion into question is completely conjecture on our part, but misrepresentation by ignorance and neglect is worse than no representation.

Is it? If that was the end of it then yeah, maybe.

But I mean… I don’t doubt the damage, however in the end we got a more accurate claim regarding mirage that was broadcasted to those same masses who hang on his word. Shouldn’t there be at least some leeway to redeem or correct a mistake?

He also got a lot more than just mirage wrong, so I think the shade we throw is a bit to indignant, it’s as if he made an intentional slight against only us.
(Plus the claims of him being a shill for A-net are likely wrong.)

I guess you could argue he shouldn’t do coverage if he’s just going to get it wrong? But personally I’d rather some expac content than none at all.

It’s his first time doing this and having early previews from A-net, so maybe he’ll be able to analyze it more critically next time?

Also I wouldn’t put to much stock into that toy axe thing, Even if it worked and if it turned out we were the fastest, it’d be nerfed anyways.

Not sure if just trolling, but I feel like there might be a little to much shade being thrown. :/

He did an update video and amended his statements to somewhat closer resemble the communities concerns. If he was truly 100% in A-nets pocket and his channel was a ruse, and marketing plot, then I doubt that would ever have happened.

He’s just a youtuber who tries to be diplomatic with his core community, the developers who give media passes, and the games core community.

So he tried to do a showcase, and some of it turned out a little misrepresenting… Well hes not a mesmer main, and majority of his videos are about lore. Any experience with mesmer has likely been “Hey! this build works!” and doesn’t over think it.

Maybe don’t assume bad intentions over ignorance and neglect?

Either way he doesn’t explode my “bias against mes” meter.

Hot Boy.7138:

I always thought confounding suggestions was blockable until today.

Uhhh it really should be. Unless something triggered your block and you were stunned following it, the evade is only 1/2 second… If it’s a bug might need further testing… that said you might want to double check the evade on offhand sword because that could be bugged too.

I’ve never been fond of conquest, personally I’m not even going to touch this season until elite specs add something new to it. And I’m not alone in the boat of displeasure that is current sPvP.

Everyone has their own reason though:
Many might just hate their teams.
Others might just want good 1v1 fights.
People like me just don’t like the format.
Some including me might just enjoy murdering players.
Many of us absolutely want to cut out the fat with 2v2 and 3v3 arenas.
And some might just be super salty, while others don’t want to deal with other peoples salt.

So I propose a new game type that will let you no longer have to rely on anyone but yourself. You can do what you want, play how you want, and the only impact is on yourself. It’s not quite the glory of arenas so many want, but it definitely fills a niche that I’m sure many of us solo players might be into:

Lone Wolves

Players: 6 – (8)
Teams: FFA
Time: 15 min.
Score to end match: 30
Winner: Top 3 – (4)
—————————————
Downing a player = 1 point.
Stomping a player = 3 points.
Killing a downed player without stomping = 0 – (1)
Assists = 0.5 points (2 assists = 1 point)

Maps would probably need to be designed with this game type in mind. But there should be plenty of places to use the terrain. Including use of the Z axis, Pillars and Walls to play with LoS, and a few key clearly marked “No valid path to target” (anti blink) zones.

The criteria for an assist tagging should probably be substantially increased from what normal kill credit is. Also you should not be able to tag assist on a downed foe. I’m on the fence with if it would be a good idea to include blocked or evaded damage for assists.

Victory condition is top half of the players, and rewards/rating/ect. Should reflect the disparity and perhaps some lenience on 4th (5th) slot as if no hit to rating unless consistent placement?

(This is all inspired by the Halo 3 Lone Wolves game type, hence the name. I don’t care what we actually call it in the long run.)
_______________________________________________________
There are concerns with balance for play types, and builds. For example just having Deadeyes camping for free points. But if there are enough walls, most of them should have enough counter play. It’s also the type of thing that forges temporary alliances in the heat of battle, or perhaps it’s a situation where they can down players but from the lack of stomps fall short? I think in terms of balance it’s at least an environment worth testing (with a queue.) Perhaps unique to the game mode if things like stealth become an issue, then a whiffed stealth attack could reveal.

Either way I think this game type would be a much more fair to a wider variety of builds than conquest.

Do you guys think this would be something interesting to have?
I doubt it would garner viewership like the way team e-sports do, but it could be something that pushes the solo streamer popularity.

What are your thoughts on this? Please discuss.

Not much of a side grade when Inferior to Chrono in almost every way but mobility, and on a whole inferior to core thief, and DD when trying to encroach on their archetype.

They portrayed their God Krytan cuz their racist against Elonians.

Sorry, Elo-Krytans.

I like wings, if you don’t like wings don’t wear them.

It’s fashion wars 2 and aesthetics are a personal taste.

If you really can’t stand people with them, get good at PvP or WvW and kill only people wearing them for catharsis.

Ambush Skills

Sword – I really like how you can use the ambush without a target, that in itself offers utility regardless of the low damage. The cast time is to counterproductive, meaning that you can’t make a safe leap, which is important when:
1. you are not running infinite horizon as it singles you out, which directly breaks the design of what mirage intends. And
2. it fails to serve as a reactive interrupt.
You can score incidental ones, or super hard read something but most of the time it can in no way be used truly reactively, which is something we should get for the cost.

It’s functional with confounding suggestions, but the internal c/d really limits it. Also pretty sure it’s bugged for a lot of daze traits especially for clones.

Greatsword – Damage is awful, there is no utility, it applies no pressure in pvp or wvw, half the time it bugs and cancels, no one wanted to cleave on a GS once we got out of Orr back in 2012, and even if we did we did no one wanted to trade a doge for a single auto attack cleave that our clones contribute nothing to.
It needs:
a solid damage of at least a 2.2 – 2.3 coefficent plus one of the following soft cc: 3 sec slow, 5 sec blind, or 5 sec weakness, or 1 sec immobilize. (actually wouldn’t even mind if this was random for every pulse/hit even with lower durations.)
Or
Keep current damage, 6-8 stacks of vulnerability, 1 sec daze.
Or
Keep current damage inflict “Launch”.

Staff – Power wise I think is fine, could use some CC. The cast time is awful and the projectile speed is worse.

Axe – I have no real opinion I honestly didn’t use it much,

Scepter – This this is great, and should be a standard other weapons should follow. Illusions can pressure with it, it has a good coefficient for power sitting at 2.0.
Some people don’t like the root, but I think it’s fine with the blink.

I don’t want it to be some sort of self fulfilling prophecy, where we expect nothing will happen, so A-net does nothing on the justification we’re expecting nothing anyways.
It might be a bit slippery slope, but with literally no contact, and a general history of how our development has gone down, it’s not unexpected to just get one or two underwhelming changes as the expansion drops.

But there has always been dev bias against mesmer. Even back when all we had was Power Shatter for PvP lot of them thought we were broken af.

musu.9205:

Daishi.6027:

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

thats how i feel . but well .wish anet could come to reddit or forum and talk about their plan for elite spec especially "weaker " ones

Problem is I don’t think they actually view mirage as one of the weaker ones.

Was most of my weekend, it was fun for 1v1s but honestly Condi is just going to be superior in the end.

Mirage is supposed to juke, leave people guessing, and evade.

To bad our jukes are “meh” and more limmited compared to what core thief can do.

No one is going to actually fall for illusions even with a target drop, and the sheer amount of AoE just renders the concept useless in the few instances it could have mattered.

And we don’t even have that much doge, half of it they expect us to run around and grab mirrors before they expire despite their short time.

Not that I don’t think you can get kills on mirage, the demo weekend was clearly contrary to that, and the kills great like the rush old power shatter used to give. But it feels like Chrono, and Thief are just better long term options unless clone hiding becomes a real thing. But no one has time for that off point, and on point it’s just a good way to get decapped.

Minor Traits

• Mirage Cloak – Pretty fine, should have “speed of sand” baseline to it, if “speed of sand is left” untouched.
• Nomad’s Endurance – 3 seconds of vigor for a shatter doesn’t amount to much on a doge class. We need more quick and reliable ways to access our doge, and this trait seems like it’s trying to be it, but doesn’t accomplish it.
• Speed of Sand – This just needs to do more. It blows a GM minor fixing an issue the elite spec creates. I would be fine with it’s existence this far down the line is to serve a PvE progression purpose. But for a complete build it’s like not getting a GM minor unless they add something to it.

Adept Traits

• Self-Deception – Should always grant a clone, or be buffed in another way. The asking price of already having 2 illusions up, to get a clone when using a relatively long cooldown, isn’t very good and almost not worth the slot.
• Renewing Oasis – This is fine.
• Riddle of Sand – I really of like how it uses shatters as it’s cooldown and want more of this.

Master Traits

• Shards of Glass – Remove random chance, if mirrors last longer so you can use multiple that will allow us to mass ambush on a set c/d, would offer us more reliable doge that is sorely needed for a doge spec, and be a decent trade off for axe users, or the easy consistent defensive option from a buffed mirage mantle.
• Mirage Mantle – Increase base duration of protection. OR apply AoE weakness at 180 radius when mirage cloak ends, and double the weakness range of Mirage Mirrors.
• Mirrored Axes – Fine.

Grandmaster Traits

• Infinite Horizon – This is fine. But if it wasn’t for scepter, and my hope for GS ambush viability, I’d say this should be part of Speed of Sand.
• Elusive Mind – This is actually pretty great. <3
• Dune Cloak – I don’t have enough experience with this to give solid feedback.

His vid wasn’t that bad, it was less complainy than the forums which is to be expected esp when he gets favorable treatment from A-net and doesn’t want to kitten them off.

But only thing I have a problem with, is him saying things are overturned when they are not. Especially when you consider what all elite specs (Both HoT and PoF included) are capable of.

His claim GS ambush wont do the numbers because hes not in the right set up, without knowing or representing that it does awful damage either way is a problem.

More regarding GS ambush he pointed out that it gives it a bit of cleave. Well he failed to represent that no one wanted GS to cleave since Orr events 2012, and if they did they wouldn’t want something as ineffectual as an auto attack, on something as limited as a doge. (Yes we get more doge than core, but it’s still very limited. I don’t care how much vigor you give us core thief, hell even core ranger can doge more within a shorter period of time. Then DD exists…)

To his credit I feel he tried, and is over all less ignorant than most non mesmer mains, of mesmer’s situation.

Only played mirage, it was underwhelming even as condi compared to chrono, and power was dismal.

Mirage Ambushes needs buffs for everything that isn’t scepter, and maybe staff. But Greatsword needs it the most. (Sword needs less delay)

Ambushes and mirrors should have a longer window, or Mirage should be given more doge without vigor.

False oasis has to long a cooldown for what it offers.

Mirage Advance respects LoS contrary to every other shadow-step or targeted teleport, and the 3/4 cast time on such a skill is awful.

Jaunt needs a bit more range, or proc mirage cloak.

Speed of Sand should be part of the minor adept. Infinite Horizon should be minor Grandmaster. (might have to nerf scepter a little)

Self-Deception is a bad trait.

Shards of Glass needs to be more frequent.

Mirage Cloak Functionally I think was actually done pretty well. Baseline super speed (apart from taking a minor slot, as opposed to just being naturally part of the effect.) makes it feel as natural as regular doge while moving.

The added utility of safe stomps in PvP since the quickness nerf is welcome, and clutch doge casting is nice. But outside of that I find it’s inconsequential if it wasn’t absolutely required to make ambushes work.

It’s added (and arguably marketed) intention to help fool players is unrealistic, no one is going to fall for clones even if you drop target which is something incredibly limited anyways. Until we can subtly swap places with an illusion, while changing their target to the illusion you swapped with, and our illusions always reflect our health bars, AND had some mechanic where they had a static kitten to die thing, no one is truly going to fall for it, outside of the players who get lost in illusions anyways… But nothing screws with that more than Mirrors.

Mirage Mirrors
These are petty bad. It’s like telling dare devil “run here if you want your 3rd doge!” I’d be willing to accept them more if they 1. Lasted longer. 2. Spawned closer. and 3. enemies couldn’t see them. It’s bad enough we need to go out of our way to get our 3rd doge, and to gain access to underwhelming skills but nothing says “HEY I’M THE REAL ONE!” louder than being the only thing who is moving in it’s direction.

Also we don’t even generate them enough. You “maybe” get “1” every 20 seconds on shatter when traited. You get one at the end of two utilities, only one of which is competition to other utilities, and it’s a tough sell. Then finally we get one at the end of a mediocre at best heal, that you need to use preemptively to damage that isn’t a large burst to be effective. (this one bothers me to no end, our heal should have been in the vain of Withdraw with Trickster for thief.)

Utilities

Illusionary Ambush This is probably my favorite. It’s a relatively safe engagement. It drops target, it brings all your illusions with you, the safety of it also comes from mirage cloak to proc your ambush right off it. This was great and a ton of fun, would have had good synergy if all ambushes that weren’t scepter were good with event horizon. But that’s ok, I just took elusive mind and loved it. This is the instant through walls blink I’ve envy’d for years and we now have it.

Mirage Advance Having a shadow step/shadow return skill was great, I simply loved that it existed! But that got shattered pretty quickly. It comes out too slow… It should have been instant like it’s big brother Illusionary Ambush, and it adhering to line of sight was the worst for many triggering reasons I will not elaborate on right now.

I was willing to accept the shorter distance for a blind and no target drop, but with the added effect of a return. But no, the line of sight issue, and cast time ruin it. No other shadowstep or teleport has to put up with this amount of crap.

Sand Through Glass This one was ok. A doge and a mirror for 30 seconds is a bit of a hard sell. If this was given two charges and they make mirrors less unwieldy I would consider it a lot more.

Crystal Sands The damage it does if everything hits is decent, but it’s easily screwed by terrain, and it’s unlikely to land every hit. It might turn out to be okay dps in some (probably more casual) PvE content. I’m kind of indifferent to it, I’d like it buffed or reworked but I wouldn’t know how to fairly suggest it form such little use.

Jaunt Not a “utility” but I might as well include this. Gotta say I can’t help but compare this to a Blink cut into 3 parts. But I find it a little clunky. 600 Range each would be nice but I can understand the hesitation on that. Removing the 1/2 cooldown between use would go a long way to streamline it, and make it a decent cluch condi clear. If the cooldown can’t fully be removed perhaps a quick global like we have on shatters to avoid bugs. The damage is inconsequential unless you are a condi build. It’s alright to secure kills which mesmer sorely needed, but that is mostly due to re-positioning than the damage. I think it would be better if each use proc-ed mirage cloak after getting a rework to our ambushes, and the damage was removed. If it has to proc a condition for the sake of utility, weakness would be a good one. Ultimately this skill should be safer and less clunky to use than it is.

I share a lot of the same sentiments, especially with 5, 9, and 10.

I am a bit worried it will go complacently unchanged in all honesty, but that’s not too much of a deterrent for me.

I feel we could use a little more doge, or at least safer and more impactful ambushes depending on the weapon. Along with traits that could offer a bit more (self-deception, and Shards of glass in particular. Also if it wasn’t for Scepter, I’d be in the camp saying Ambushes should be baseline to mirage.)

If A-net just said: “Hey we recognize the dissatisfaction. Although we may not 100% agree with the feedback versus our vision for the game, it is clear there are some objective points and we are working to improve on it.” Or at least something along those lines, then we’d stop… Maybe not entirely, but there would be significantly less.

If they wanted the above to be more constructive they would directly communicate the aspects they are looking at changing. (I think back to HoT and the discussion we had with Robert about Wells…)

But since A-net is probably not sure what they are even going to do yet, and there has been history of of dev bias against Mesmer because they consider it OP as hell, they are unlikely to actually say anything and just assume we’re just being hyperbolic. So the only likely response from the players is to flood the forums so it is made clear.

As a Mesmer main would you consider getting a refund, or refuse to buy PoF if no good Mirage changes came before release?

http://www.strawpoll.me/13753838

For the sake of discussion, if the vote was overwhelmingly strong do you think it would incite change? (albeit temporary considering to them it’s literally a light switch.)

:/ chrono has better survivability than mirage and other than jaunt all of the teleports are toward your target, with mirage advance not being useable without line of sight.

And if you don’t count stealth thief is artificially way to low.

If you want to quantify something attempt to look at how safe a class is to achieve their goal or damage, and include their follow up.

If I had to quantify where most of my disappointment does comes from:

It would be that other than utilities and a choice of A. Stun Break/Condi clear on doge, or B. Illusions do Ambush.
We really don’t get that much compared to things like Holo, Scourge, or Spell breaker.

We’re pretty much core with more mobility options, cast flexibility, and a bit more vigor. (Which I honestly think is the worst since it’s an unreliable precursor to our mechanic and survival.) and this is in a world where core kind of sucks.

For a doge class we still doge less than core thief, and our ambushes are not only underwhelming offensively across the board, but are often unsafe.

I am somewhat pleased with the direction but the problems are evident, and we’re only a month away.

Since the Patch yeserday during play my screen goes black, it’s still responsive and I can hit F11-12 to pull up menus. F-12 although giving me the option to log out or go to character select will not do anything when selected.

I have tried to repair the client to no avail.

I have upgrading my graphic drivers in case that is the issue.

I have attempted Port forwarding, and the “-clientport 80” – 6600 options in case this was a network related issue, despite this being the only game suffering from.

Since yesterday I have had some issues with the login where, frequently it did not accept my authentication code but would work after a couple tries.

Today I have had to change my password twice due to it not recognizing my password, despite my “current logins” showing the same IP I am normally on.

As a precaution I have changed my authentication as well, but through all this I still get the same black screen issues.

I’ve noticed after logging out, and back in (without a black screen crash) on certain characters it would put me in Lion’s Arch, just west of the Traders forum way point.

I made a ticket last night regarding these issues, but I see a lot of people complaining about ticket queue times, but considering this problem has gotten worse, I thought I’d ask in case the community has any solutions, in depth information, or to see if anyone has had the same or similar problems.

Esplen.3940:

Daishi.6027:

But in regards to sword ambush would it not be good vs break bars? I could almost imgine a sw/sw + sw/focus set which was pretty common and with energy runes you could spam those dazes pretty quickly without relying on mirrors. (not to say that is an efficient thing to do, but wouldn’t at least one 3 clone sword ambush do a number on the bar?)

With 3 sword clones (lolwat?) you’ll be doing 400 breakbar damage. If you trait stun, you’ll do 400 breakbar damage.

Moa does 1000 breakbar damage, Graviy Well does 550 breakbar damage, Magic Bullet does 200 breakbar damage to 2 targets, Sword4/Scepter2 do 100 breakbar damage.

The only use I see for it is a quick 800 breakbar off of Sword ambush -> Diversion but that’s… never going to happen because the setup and execution mean you’ve done nothing for quite a while.

I haven’t raided so I don’t know how in depth the numbers get and the nuances of what is viable and what isn’t. So forgive my ignorance as a player murdering pleb.

But 400 on something relatively spammable doesn’t sound awful? Even a 2 clone ambush at 300 + diversion for a quick 700 seems alright by comparision when Gravity well is 550, and Moa is 1000. Plus I’m still under the impression that with mirrors you can do this multiple times, so like a two clone 300 ambush x 2 gives you 600 with little investment.

I don’t know how high Raid bosses get but isn’t the average boss monster out side of raids (including fractals) about 600? So even without doing it twice that is half the bar for at worst the cost of a doge?

What am I missing?

@Jojo I’m pretty sure they just said "Hey! Let’s give mes more teef things!

Which to be fair, apart from auto attack damage and skipping content what role did core thief ever have back in the day when warriors and eles were speed running dungeons?

Esplen.3940:

I’m a PvE player, I do raids, fractals, dungeons (those still exist?) and honestly I can’t see myself using Sword on Mirage because you’re losing out on so much for a daze and a clone. If you want clone gen, you can use Deceptions and Deceptive Evasion. if you want dazes.. F3, Moa, MoD, SoD, Pistol5, Scepter2, Sword4, Focus4 all do the same job but better.

It doesn’t have to be godly damage, but if your class mechanic is weaker than an auto attack, there’s something wrong. (Also GS ambush is weaker than a GS auto attack, and Spear ambush is weaker than a spear auto attack.)

I’m not going to quit saying it: All the ambushes are scaled as if we have 3 clones with Infinite Horizon. That’s the only way any of the ambushes do anything significant. Even Scepter Ambush is basically a mini Scepter3 merged with Phase Retreat (without any clones).

As for False Oasis I think people are just knee jerk reacting. The only dilemma I see with it is the Mirror being placed where you cast it. I would like to see it become a ground target so you can predict or even set up something.

From a PvE persepctive I totally get it, and again I 100% agree that the damage should be higher, but does infinite horizon cause illusions to do decent damage beyond w/e their effect is? The damage is so low so I’ve never payed attention, and since I haven’t been running it I haven’t had much opportunity to notice.

But in regards to sword ambush would it not be good vs break bars? I could almost imgine a sw/sw + sw/focus set which was pretty common and with energy runes you could spam those dazes pretty quickly without relying on mirrors. (not to say that is an efficient thing to do, but wouldn’t at least one 3 clone sword ambush do a number on the bar?)

One thing I also don’t get is the hate on False Oasis. It only heals slightly less than Troll Urgent (8496 vs 8100), While oasis is faster to hit it’s cap, gives vigor, and the opportunity to doge+ambush. With the amount of doges and mobility we have I’ve found it to be pretty good even if it could use some tweaks. (I’d prefer flat endurance than vigor) Also btw you don’t need to be near the oasis to get the healing.

@Esplen No I agree it should be stronger. However I think we might be falling into some trap believing that all of them need to be powerful in terms of damage. I mostly care if they are useful. Greatsword Ambush for example is anything but. All it offers is damage, and the damage is negligible.

glenndevis.8327:

Im somewhat pleased too. I really like the idea of Mirage and the scepter ambush feels great. The Mirage Cloak mechanic is quite nice.
Casting while dodging, Dodging while stomping,… quite nice.

But yeah it has a lot of problems.
-All ambush skills other than scepter suck.
-Mirage Mirrors are a bad idea and they’re annoying.
-Traits are a mess (mostly that all of the shatter traits, which mesmer has a LOT of, contradict what Mirage is supposed to do. They do nothing for the spec.
-Some of the utilities aren’t useful at all.
-Axe skills are a mess. #1 & #2 are good for PvE but aren’t useful at all for PvP while #3 is good for PvP. (or it’s supposed to be but it’s not coz the confusion never lands because people run out of it before it lands.)
-Nothing changed for our shatters/no new F skill that works witht our Mirage Cloak/Ambush mechanics.

In the end I do find some fun in playing with scepter though.

I’ve actually been warming up to sword ambush. With Domination line having an easy access stun from just doge has been kinda cool. and the untargeted mobility has been really handy. Even off confounding suggestions the daze has been more reliable than I initially thought. I’m clearly not running infinite horizon though. Elusive mind with Jaunt and inspiration line is tons condi clear and easy access stunbreaker/sudo stunbreakers

I hated how sword ambush looked on paper, but in practice the 3/4 cast feels about normal, even tho I do wish it was faster.

Mirrors are a pain I agree 100% they should last for at least double their duration.

and yeah Axe does feel like a bit of a mess in PvP.

I feel like I’m the only one relatively pleased with this spec.

It will not do as well as condi chrono especially on point. It strait up lacks the same output, and close quarters/bruisery-ish surviability.

But in terms of just out playing opponents, and giving us more options to hide our burst in a PvP/WvW setting, and giving us even more mobility than before, I think it has potential at it’s skill ceiling.

I don’t deny it NEEDS some buffs, GS Ambush being a prime example, and Jaunt definetly needs to be a bit further. Also yeah, in PvE it brings literally nothing to the group. But it’s not like we don’t still have chrono, and when we finally do get the ability to DPS really hard like the way holo can, we probably wont be constantly evading, dropping target, and juking.

So sure, Condi Chrono will be stronger head to head. Condi Mirage will probably still be better than power, other than the gap left from giving up shield. But Power Mirage is like old power shatter, but with the mobility to actually do things it only wished it could do before.

I realize I’m the outlier, and it wont impose on chrono’s spot, and to be honest I kind of like that Chrono is keeping it’s place. I would have liked more Raid/Fractal vaiablity, and it may be incredibly subjective; but I’ve been having quite a bit of fun with what it offers so far.

Edit: Brought up controversy of False Oasis in 3rd post. Will copy here for discussion sake.

“One thing I also don’t get is the hate on False Oasis. It only heals slightly less than Troll Urgent (8496 vs 8100), While oasis is faster to hit it’s cap, gives vigor, and the opportunity to doge+ambush. With the amount of doges and mobility we have I’ve found it to be pretty good even if it could use some tweaks. (I’d prefer flat endurance than vigor) Also btw you don’t need to be near the oasis to get the healing.”

At least Defensively it would probably be objectively better than sword if it did that, while being an easier shatter set up tool, with only slightly less damage and prob pretty similar to power after you calculate the condi ticks… Not that Sword does all that much damage to begin with.

Axe 2 if it kept it’s animation it would be a mobile evade even if it had less frames compared to blurred frenzy’s root. Not to mention Axe 2 get you two uses, and two clones.

While Axe 3 puts your illusions right at your target with only a 3/4 cast, and forces target drop. Compared to Illusionary leap sending a clone after 1/2 cast, that puts a visible little foot notification, that after swapping sends the illusion all the way to where you were, presuming the clone even lives.

I agree the only defensive mechanic for that weapon (being that it drops target) is a bit lacking, but I would rather not see it get buffed that far, and it keep it’s identity separate.

Embolism.8106:

Why must Elite specs change the profession’s F mechanic?

Scrapper’s doesn’t. Daredevil’s doesn’t.

They don’t need it, but moving the ambush to button separate from our attack chain can have it’s benefits.

People asking for a completely new mechanic at this point is a bit unrealistic. It’ll never happen.

Really we got mobility and flexibility it’s kind of hard to deny how powerful that is in PvP and WvW, when it comes to covering ourselves, and hiding our bursts. But
this won’t matter at all in fights that require us to DPS, but that’s nothing’s new.

TBH I honestly wouldn’t mind if our Ambush triggers lasted 2 seconds and was in the f5 slot with a buff nice enough to do substantial damage at least split for PvE.

Skills:

False Oasis – Remove Vigor. Restore a flat 50% endurance amount on cast (25% in PvP). Reduce cast time from 3/4 to 1/2. Reduce cooldown to 25 seconds from 30.

Axes of Symmetry – Will now consistently place you at the same level as your target on the Z axis.

Illusionary Ambush – Will now consistently place you at the same level as your target on the Z axis.

Mirage Advance – Now breaks stun on initial cast. No longer requires line of sight.
(OR, the healthier thing for at least PvP and WvW. Require line of sight for: Steal, Infiltrator’s Signet, Infiltrator’s Strike, Judge’s Intervention. Symbol of Blades, Axes of Symmetry, and Illusionary Ambush. Including any other “Targeted” teleports/shadowsteps.)

Sand through glass – Changed cooldown to charge system. 2 charges Count recharge 30 seconds.

Jaunt – Range increased to 600.

Split Surge – Damage coefficient increased to 2.2. No longer counts as “Spatial Surge” with Imagined Burden, and instead stacks cripple per hit. (currently only puts one stack of_ might)

Traits:

Self-Deception – Will now create a clone as long as you do not have 3 illusions active.

Nomad’s Endurance – Now adds an additional attribute adjustment of 150 to power.

Shards of Glass – (PvE Only) Reformed mirror cooldown reduced to 10 seconds from 20.

There is probably more that could be done, and in all honesty I’m pretty happy with the amount of mobility we got, But we do at least need good and consistent spike on power builds regardless of range in PvE and PvP, and since power synergizes better with greatsword, it makes sense to buff that ambush in a way that utilizes the core trait of the weapon, as well as it’s base power.

The most important one of these suggestions is the change to split surge and second being Jaunt.

Mirage Advance should follow the standard regardless of which way the the standard is decided to go.

Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush just need polish.

This issue just started happening to me today with the update. Same as OP were I can access some of the menus when on black screen.

Sword ambush actually pleases me for PvP, and the fact you can use it without a target is added mobility. I’ve wanted a leap for years!

Do the clone dazes not proc Dazzling? Because I’m not getting the stacks I should.

Yup Mirage GS ambush is awful on a power build. There is no vulnerability or anything to go with it either it’s light the auto attack with a flashy animation.

Back to sheer disappointment.

Nope.

During the stream they summoned a phantasm and did a Ambush attack right next to it, and it just stayed on its normal routine.

As long as it is not imposed as a mesmer elite spec… Sure, why not?

It’s also going to have these useless replies to the early posting of the early thread.

equip tin foil hat I guess in the event A-net decides to merge all the threads anyways you might get top slot.

Curunen.8729:

Well GS ambush visually looks impressive for sure.

I’m going to have to rewatch that because I wasn’t sure where all that vuln was coming from.

I just made a thingy regarding that and noticed they had exposure sigils. but that’s a lot of vuln, and I don’t think it would trigger on illusions, also not 100% sure if that was after a swap. If it does natively stack some vuln that’d at least be better than flat 1.2.
(and yeah it looks realllly cool)

Also confirmed no ambush attacks on phantasms. (which we kinda already figured right?)

Curunen.8729:

Eponet.4829:

Daishi.6027:

glenndevis.8327:

I had Infinite Light for ages. Love it.
Considering getting Shining Blade though but that’s not gnna be anytime soon.
Never been much of a fan of Bolt.

I’m in this camp. Bolt is a wallhanger with a rat tail tang! Shining blade and Infinite light are real swords.

The Shining Blade is about as ridiculous as Bolt. Infinite Light is nice though.

Agreed, the Shining Blade is a hideous model.

The only things I like about it are the compacting on stow (feels like Mass Effect style weapons and also means it doesn’t clip through the ground which is kind of important on asura) and the purple/yellow visual effects.

The footsteps look like disco floor lightning and the excessive structures around the hilt area turn me off.

I can fully appreciate why it is designed like that – representing the symbol of the Shining Blade, but skins like Infinite Light or Gold Fractal Sword are far more appealing as “normal” fancy weapons.

Hey, it’s not about the aesthetic design or the ridiculousness of it. It’s that bolt has a a small tang (where the blade extends into the handle) and looks like it would snap if I tired to use it. (and thus should be hung on a wall to display… cuz it is pretty.)

I agree tho the foot falls on shining blade are pretty silly.

Gold frac sword isn’t bad, but it’s hard sell vs infinite light which is longer and has a nice thicker blade. Beautiful trail effect tho <3

as Musu said Holosmith lightsaber sword is a good pick, and the mastery completed version (The Cutting Edge) is shorter for some reason? So original light saber ftw!

They are coming out with the Luminous Weapons and the sword isn’t a bad cheaper alternative (or even an off hand of same length) to infinite light. [&CpsdAAA=]

If map design is the lowest level of “not catering to casuals” because 2/4 maps were a bit complex… I don’t really want to be elitist here and say the problem is you, but there is some base level of aptitude you should expect to bring to the table. I can’t go into something like bejeweled not understand the game, or be frustrated at the level of investment to reach certain levels, and then say it doesn’t cater to people on a casual level. I don’t think that is really a fair claim against the game.

That being said the new map designs seem to just be wide, long and relatively flat which shouldn’t be difficult to figure out. If you are bad at combat there will always be groups to pick you up and get you through it. If story is a problem surely you can get some assistance. Which I think on a whole does cater to a casual experience, since in away everyone wins.

If you were put off by the investment needed in the mastery system to progress, you probably will still have to do that here. Like any MMO there is some time investment expected to be made. To my understanding they are cutting down how long it takes to max elite specializations so you can play more of the new content with it. I do believe we will unlock the new mounts pretty fast, so you’ll probably be able to finish story with minimal investment.

It is true Mirage Thrust will probably be useful against break bars, and will synergize with things like Dazzling to stack vulnerability. But the 3/4 sec cast is to long to be a reliable reactionary interrupt, and Confounding suggestions will be redundant with infinite horizon.

This isn’t to much of a problem other than the fact we will be proc-ing our ambush a lot and it will do very little of consequence against anything without a break bar (including players) unless running domination. I’m not that upset with it, given it has some utility. But I am a bit disappointed

Greatsword on the other hand! To quote myself:

Split Surge sitting st 1.2 is awful. It should have been at LEAST 1.9 – 2.2 to be decent. Which is dumb since Eather Barrage is the same channel time, same range, has a defensive blink, applies torment and confusion, and is 2.0

Not that I’m knocking scepter but who thought this is ok for GS? I guess you can argue it can point blank cleave… but a one off point blank cleave for awful damage isn’t worth anything.

It’s dumb and should be buffed before release.

glenndevis.8327:

I had Infinite Light for ages. Love it.
Considering getting Shining Blade though but that’s not gnna be anytime soon.
Never been much of a fan of Bolt.

I’m in this camp. Bolt is a wallhanger with a rat tail tang! Shining blade and Infinite light are real swords.

Get bolt so you can stick it in the punch bowl. ;3

Title is pretty much par for the course with this game.

Mirage Thrust is pretty disappointing 3/4 cast for a 1/4 daze and damage similar to our already awful auto attack? Lol okay… Could have been cool with confounding suggestions, but it’s useless with infinite horizon.

Split Surge sitting st 1.2 is awful. It should have been at LEAST 1.9 – 2.2 to be decent. Which is dumb since Eather Barrage is the same channel time, same range, has a defensive blink, applies torment and confusion, and is 2.0

Not that I’m knocking scepter but who thought this is ok for GS? I guess you can argue it can point blank cleave… but a one off point blank cleave for awful damage isn’t worth anything.

Would have been nice, but I bet they just made it harder for themselves having to now work around multiple weapons on one class that can, or cannot be used with a specific elite spec.