Guild Wars 2

inb4 someone says just dodge it

“Just dodge all LB skills while staying in LB burst, dodge pin down, then dodge eviscerate, what’s your problem???”

Ario.8964:

I’d say as a class w/o comparing to others, warriors feel pretty balanced

Andorra is a pretty big and influential country w/o comparing to others.

Legendary grawl shaman

But I enjoy this fight so much! It’s the best designed encounter in the whole game

Edit: or more exactly the only encounter that has a design

I predict an expansion’s worth of communication!

No you do not understand. It is not about you or your tournament. It is about the community and what the community wants to see.

I thought it was obvious, really. I thought everybody knew that PvE had been stale for too long, that Anet was undermining us, and that any possible way out of the dark pit the game had fallen into would have to involve the community as a whole.

This is how gwscr approached the problem. Rules were discussed publicly so that the entire community would feel involved. Any form of individualism would have thwarted the project. Only thanks to this community-driven approach was the speed clear competition successful.

Before you launched your first tournament, we had a thread on the forums. We were doing exactly this. We were discussing formats, as a community. Then you made your public announcement, using ideas developed in the aforementioned thread, and it was a great success.

I can imagine that you needed to generate fame for your guild and bypassing the community was a way to get a first-mover advantage. I can also imagine you may think I am discussing this only because I – as an rT member – would be envious of the attention your project attracts. Please believe that it is not the case.

I am convinced we get one shot. One shot at making tournaments that are engaging for the community, one shot to attract attention to PvE before it is doomed for ever. I want to make this right.

Therefore I believe that we have to engage the community as a whole in order to achieve long lasting success. Could we put individualism and personal interest aside for a while? DnT launched two tournaments, KING launched one, all these without community involvement. Okay, I guess we could all launch our own tournaments. The consequent chaos would certainly be entertaining, for a while. But do you really think we can get long-lasting support from Anet if we do not get organised?

As I said, we get one shot. How about we took the time to sit and discuss things?

We could act as a community, to survive as a community. So you see it is not about your tournament, even if I would have some criticism for it, it is about the way we get organised in order to make competitive PvE happen.

Lishtenbird.2814:

Confirmed to be working as intended by a Dev:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Can we have a minute of silence in memory of the only dev that actually cared for dungeons?

tear in my eye

Ah for those who did not forget, remember the time when we could do fractals level 80 with almost no AR? Ahh the good times when skill prevailed over gear (or hammer guardians)!

But nope, now we have scripted agony.

AAAAAAAAHHH no. Don’t do that.

It is far better to use defensive traits until you learn how to survive better or until you find better teammates, and keep using zerker gear in the meantime!

Ele community:
Hey anet, we want Blinding Ashes with a per-target ICD

Anet:
we are reducing the ICD of Burning Ashes to 3s, omg this is so crazy! xD lol giggles

Ele community:
Hey anet, we want Blinding Ashes with a per-target ICD

Anet:
Burning Ashes now has a 5 second ICD.

Ele community: ?

I like how Anet is better than any villain in any superhero movie: instead of talking before killing, they kill us first then talk. That’s actually quite professional!

Kiriakulos.1690:

Shaogin.2679:

They are working on making less used traits, weapons, and abilities more desireable. Don’t see what the big deal is. They took forever to fix a tooltip you deem useless, so what? Last I checked this game was free for me to play, so I have no intentions of holding Anet to some silly schedule.

I remember paying for a copy of the game.

You did not. You paid for the manifesto. Then they gave you gw2 instead.

Taku.6352:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18IHVJao5j85KOp6lBTOgO8qs4VYD3Xty-jKPZo8o-Q4/pubhtml

Oh yeah that
We have had to do our own loot recording to show Anet that they had been doing something wrong. We had to make the proof.
Because simply telling them to look at their loot tables was not enough.
Meanwhile they hid behind their RNG excuse.

This looked dramatically like when the playerbase cried at the ectoplasm “nerf”: they devs did not believe their customers, until proof was made.

It’s really interesting to look at how anet deals with RNG. It gives them a very convenient excuse to hide and tell us that we are wrong and blablabla … meanwhile we grow more and more dissatisfied.

Yep, that’s the power of RNG: you can’t have much rational expectations. Therefore you have no expectations. Therefore Anet can do whatever they want. But their customers do care enough to show the devs that they are wrong. It’s painful but we do that.

I am pretty sure the devs at Anet also use RNG to do their daily work: they must two lotteries, one that produces at ramdom an aspect of the game, and the other that produces at random an action:

Ecto – Nerf => done!
Fractals 50+ – Remove => Done, yihaa!
Fractal skin boxes above 50+ – Implement => Nice!
TA foward up – Remove => Woohoo fun!
Dailies – Rework => Done!
Dailies – Rework => Re-Done!
Dailies – Rework => Again? Ok done!
Zelyhn – Ban => Ohh no, but done anyway!

All hail GReNth

It was never the worst class in the game.

Warriors are not exactly OP, it’s more like it takes zero skill to do what they do.

You can see that from my example of me creating a warrior (never played this class before) and winning 90% of my duels without looking at the screen.

Warrior is not OP, it’s automatic:
-Longbow burst= easy cheap and strong way to win in conquest
-stances= one-button perfect counters
-signet= we gave you the highest health and armor so we though it would only make sense to give you the best regen skill with zero drawback
-eviscerate= leap, homing, low cd, hurt like hell, no resource cost on miss, enormous synergy with traits … yeah why not a hamburger and fries with that as well ?

Warrior is not fair.

The thing is, at high level of gameplay warriors are not that strong because players will have trained so much to counter them. But one moment on inattention and you are dead.

Lawful.5314:

Nothing changed, that is how Elementalist is, the damage is rather low compared to other classes, but you have a more skills to spam, to compensate with quantity over quality.

…. or we have one of the highest potential damage output of the game, awesome group utility, and wonderful group support? But maybe we are not playing the same game!

Kodiak.3281:

That’s actually the right answer Taiyetos.

Then if they want something different THEN we get into imperfect answer territory because you’ll have the drone swarm will come out and poop on anything not meta.

The only person talking about the meta is you Kodiak.

We are the most advanced class with the highest variety of builds and tons of variations. I have almost never seen anyone from this educated community say “your build is not meta enough so you will perform poorly” but I have seen you crusade upon every single PvE thread and copy-paste your usual rant against anyone who would advise efficiency. You name me as the evil mind behind this “drone swarm” of people who want to perform well. Yet the D/F build for which I am known has never been considered as “meta”. However this build is efficient, and this is why it has gained unprecedented popularity. So you see, it is perfectly possible, and perfectly acceptable to be different. In fact it is encouraged. Therefore you should relax, Kodiak. Your inquisition against the people who give clever and efficient advice is pointless.

Well the correct solution is: don’t have alt accounts, Anet does not deserve the money anyway

(Yes I am writing this on my third alt account)

Neko.9021:

I’m sure they’ll nerf it rather than solve the real problems of dungeons.

And you know what the worse is? The people asking for the nerf are those who consider themselves as elite and previously said that any elite player should learn to adapt to the best meta, instead of attempting to change the meta.

They will nerf FGS because a minority of stubborn warrior players are asking for their toys to be the best again like it was before. Of course, as we all know, everything was better before. And then, dungeons will be even more boring than they are now.

What can we do about this? Nothing. I have attempted to talk sense into the said players, but they are really hermetic. Those guys have no long term vision… it’s hollowing me.

And also to tone down our mobility!

Bugfix: if RTL hits a target in dodge/aegis then it properly goes on quadruple cooldown.
New: Lightning flash damages you if you do not hit a target.
New: burning speed now goes backward.

Play turret engi, it’s auto-win

Well they mentioned the manifesto, first and foremost. I think that this is a sign anything they said would have to be taken with the same mindset as the manifesto had to be understood, that is: it’s just words.

I feel very communicated

FGS’s tooltips are pretty strong though

If only they would communicate with us here on the forums ….

MyPuppy.8970:

Mesmers needed a buff, they got a big one. Eles didnt need a nerf, they got a big one.

But the worse is that I don’t really mind a nerf but I really have a problem with losing a playstyle that I have enjoyed for so long

Milennin.4825:

If you don’t stack Might before a battle you’re a bad Elementalist

Today is the day I learned I am a bad elementalist

Lawful.5314:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

It was never the worst class in the game.

About a year ago, or more, elementalist was the officially worst class in Guild Wars 2 for PvP and it was mediocre for PvE.

Only true loyalists would play it, that liked the mage class in general.

Is it good in PvP atm?

About a year ago, we were using FGS everywhere so the ele was king in PvE.
In pvp, the ele got a few well deserved nerfs because it was obviously too good, and after this it fell in line with other classes.
But yep, the general opinion of the public did not reflect the actual state of the class

Anjoys.5367:

fifth attunement

All I see is warriors asking to go back to a meta where they were considered the best. They want their toys back!

Would that meta really be more interesting? I doubt it. It won’t change strats. Fights will just take more time.

But yeah sure, DnT asked for it, DnT made some theorycraft for the hypothetical future when conjures would be gone, let’s have it the DnT way, it sounds fantastic!

I’m pretty sure the same people cried when Anet announced the ferocity nerf, you know, the nerf that was made to make dungeons take longer

Better ask for things like this than to ask for interesting gameplay. You got it guys! -.-

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/A-solo-arah-run-ruined-in-less-than-10sec/first#post5104093

The dungeon forums do provide counselling from 9am to 3pm, anger management lectures are available from 3pm to 7pm and we dedicate the rest of the evening to resolving the social issues of our patients. Welcome!

There is a difference between “meta” and efficient. All meta builds are efficient, but not all efficient builds are meta.

So thanks to our vast building possibilities we have a lots of efficient builds. We have three main build archetypes for PvE and each one of these have many variations. In fact advanced players do not even limit their minds to those archetypes and they constantly innovate by combining assets from each builds. It is their ability to efficiently innovate that makes them outperform the competition.

Two builds for PvE you say? And the rest is bad? When I wrote my D/F guide many people thought it was bad. Then they tried it, and they realised that despite the build being unorthodox it is efficient, good, and wonderful. So there is not “one most efficient way to play”, but there are inefficient ways to play and these will not be given any attention.

I am getting tired of repeating the same things to you on every single thread Kodiak. I understand that it must feel good to be the one standing up against the accepted way of thinking, to be the one challenging this inhuman system. But despite your will to be different you have not contributed any build that has helped the community so far.

So keep trying to be different if you will, but stop antagonizing those who want to be efficient.

Last time we asked for communication we were told it is absolutely doable and then nothing happened

But sure let’s write pages of feedback so at least you have something more organised to ignore!

They want to make IB and LH more in line with the other conjured weapons, ok.

Devs if you are reading this you need to understand that the only reason we are using IB and LH in PvE is because of their damage. Reduce their damage and we won’t use them in PvE anymore than we use them in PvP, that is, we will not use them at all.

Conjures need to be “broken” for us to use them, because otherwise they are almost completely useless.

It is time to face the truth guys. In fact I do not want conjures to be “broken”, but I want even less to fill my utility bar with useless tools.

The problem with conjures come from their mechanics: we give up all our weapon skills, we give up most of our class mechanic, we give up the effect of many traits (alacrity traits already affect so few of our spells, with conjures they affect nothing), and as soon as we want to retrieve any of the many things we give up to use conjures then we completely loose the benefits of the conjured weapon. It simply does not work.

And no, getting a fire aura on grabbing a conjure will not change a thing. Although I applaud the fact that you finally understood we need traits that affect conjures.

Conjures need a buff, not to their damage, but to their mechanics.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Example:

three different tasks:

1, cherrypicking
2, lawnmowing
3, truffle harvesting

Castings:

A: the Cherrypicker
B: the Lawnmower
C: the Harvester
D: the guy in a green T-Shirt

situ 1: the A uses ladder because this is the META for picking cherries. D asks some friends to lift him up. A gets more cherries but D is still happy.
situ 2: B gets it right away…. Mowmowmow, D has some fun with the friends picking up flowers and some kind of weed… A has some issues because of the ladder…
situ 3: C runs out with a few tamed dogs and pigs… TruffleTruffleTruffle!
A joins with a ladder… Well played..
D gets his friends again and they are digging in the mud…. No truffle? Still fun!

TruffleTruffleTruffle!

Sounds like you did a bit more than just harvesting them

Gaile Gray.6029:

definitely on their radar.

you mean … table?

Kodiak.3281:

I was sure this was going to say, “Increase base Ele HP” or “Stop designing/balancing our class thematically and instead balance or class like every other class in the game.” because those are both things that are simple and would totally fix everything.

If the Ele theme and attributes are you problem then maybe an other class would be better suited for you

I just hope that forum specialists are properly compensated for doing a job that Anet has failed to do since ever.

I would prefer if we stayed clear of ad hominem arguments Kodiak, not only for the health of the discussion but also because such tactic often reveals a lack of proper arguments from the perpetrator.

Efficiency does not mean maximum DPS. I thought we had covered this: my DF build is not maximum DPS (not far though!) but it is very efficient. Efficiency is maximum output, considering the goal the player wants to achieve.

In the video I linked, the players are actually very efficient, considering the goal they have chosen. Yet, some of them die, and the fight takes ages. This is fine because this is exactly what this group of friends had in mind, so they had fun. But now, if a random person would join the group without prior knowledge of their goals this person would have a terrible time. So if the players from the video would come on forums and say this is how to kill Lupicus the community would be right to point out the inefficiencies in their method. This is what this discussion is all about.

I think unless the players who come on the forums clearly state their perspective then it is normal that their ideas are judged from the perspective that is common to the majority of the community. The community wants to complete content smoothly, they want to feel potent, they want to achieve more. I find it quite normal that they dislike advice that gets content completed less smoothly, advice that makes players less potent, and that ultimately prevents the community from enjoying the game as much. It is a matter of common sense, and common good

_
Now a few clarifications:

Kodiak.3281:

I’ll never accept that Berserker is the only way to play.

You are right, it is not. It is the most efficient though. You are free to chose how efficient you want to be, and people are free to enjoy playing with you or not.

Kodiak.3281:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

If everybody went with some build they like that was completely inefficient then no group would ever succeed. A certain level of efficiency is required to complete content.

This is a faulty and misleading premise.

To state that alternative methods are incapable of downing content is simply, factually incorrect.

Indeed, and that is why I am not making such statement. My statement is that a certain level of efficiency is required to complete the content, a certain level is required to complete it smoothly enough for your team to have a good time in this social game. You deem this point faulty but you have failed to explain why. And seriously good luck explaining: you would have to argue that making purely bad decisions gets the content completed

Aggrostemma.1703:

Zelyhn: sorry to say but meta is META… what you wanna say is the FotM. FotM is changing constantly it keeps evolving but there is only one MOST effective tactic available… Most means there is only one…

… at any given time. And time flies!

Meta really does not stand for most effective tactic. I mean, it’s not even a tactic

The meta comes from the top players, the flavour of the month is just some weird concept adopted by casuals because they believe that one profession on its own is better than all others, which is a huge misconception.

But maybe this is all because of the truffletruffletruffles?

WvW is still as bad as ever, PvP has barely moved, PvE is agonising in pain, and the Living Story child birth is so bloody that is may kill its already sick mother.

I hope this answers your questions

I don’t understand why you are all complaining about this change. It’s a buff, not a big one but a buff nonetheless. Also it will make life easier for FA eles, because managing ICD while managing all the usual ele business is quite something. I say be grateful! It’s a sensible change. Reward the devs with your gratitude when they make sensible changes and we may see more of these

dlonie.6547:

Makes sense. It isn’t really “collaborative” when it’s just us talking at a wall anyway.

Is FDI ok? Futile Discussion Initiative?

Or TIAD?

This is absolutely doable

That is completely untrue: if you “ignore” skillful gameplay you will die. Bunkers are strong because they can withstand some small damage pressure, but there is no magic. At the same time, bunkers deal low damage. Therefore people attacking bunkers are under low pressure … just like if they were bunkers.

Besides who said you need to be skillful to kill a bunker? Take an axe/sword-LB warrior and the bunker is dead by facerolling.

Let’s try to defuse the tension here
Yeah I am from rT, we got rektaliated in the tournaments, and some of us speak out when it comes to organising competitive PvE, alright.

I am very grateful to those who took their time, energy, and resources to organised tournaments.

Now let’s put petty rivalries aside and let us work together to give competitive PvE a bright future!

Miss a dodge against a warrior = you are dead

Warrior stands still without dodging = signet will heal it up without you having to do anything

There is as much skillful play at healing yourself as there is in damaging the opponent. It’s all about HP differential. Everyone has his mean.

A lot of players who fight bunkers simply think they can win because they deal high damage. This is a strong misconception. Even if the bunker deals low damage you will need to dodge its key spells like against any other class. This is generally the reason why people say bunkers are too strong: they underestimate it and think that the “superior” power of their own glassy build will be enough to overcome the “unskilled” tanky build. It’s not. Builds simply help you play, but in the end it is all about how good you are a making efficient use of your assets.

Now you could say that it is easier for bunkers to make efficient use of their assets and I would agree. But this is nothing related to how forgiving a build is.

RegnorVex.4071:

I’m currently using D/F but after reading all the comments in this thread about D/F Fresh Air never becoming this “meta”, I decided that, as good as it is, I would like to try out whatever the meta builds are and see how they feel for my play style.

The thread about DF not being meta is about PvP. In PvE DF is definitely part of the meta. It is not the best for optimal speedruns, but it excels in everything else

As cursE explained, do not worry about the meta while you level up. Instead take this time to experiment a lot, and most importantly train to dodge perfectly. Have fun!

Everytime I see a warrior in PvP I sigh a little:
“oh no, boring 45 second fight incoming … again ….”

Most warrior don’t even know how to play, they just spam their skills. If you get hit by a little more than one of them you are dead. Most skills are not too hard to dodge, but it requires a lot of attention to dodge them all, therefore fighting a warrior is like soloing Lupicus all over again: it takes a lot of mental energy!

I hate warbots.

Most groups are really ignorant

I’d take a good mesmer over a guardian any time.