Guild Wars 2

It is a feedback topic, so lets give some feedback.
Feedback: Please change Ashes of the just to work like venoms, let it be based on guardians stats. A change that benefit dps and support firebrands

In end, quickfire can beat loremaster already, but ofc it depends on group setup. Thing is fixed it to be a good choice, should be easy as hell. Since they already did devlop this type of interaction with venom.

You are undervaluing quickfire way to much. This things puts out 10 burns at 3 sec.
While tome of justice does 1 sec of burn every 3 hit(If traited.). Can you do 30 ToJ proce every 10 sec, on figths that aren´t AoE.
And i was being nice there using traited ToJ. Since quickfire build can drop virtues for zeal and get even better dps output. Since only good dps trait in virtues is last one.

Quickfire should be the go to option for bosses and single target. Loremaster is option for AoE or enough mobs that it can outperform quickfire.

Max all condi:
Vipers + mad kings rune + smoldering + malice with food = 100% burn and 95% bleed. Though not sure if bleed duration is worth it.

Burning focus:
Sinister + balth +smoldering = 100% burn duration with a rune set we can take advantage off. Long cooldown maybe, but if health falls low we get 5sec quickness and quickness is “free stats” from Imbued Haste and if you run with mantra heal you can proc a 3sec burn on 12 sec cooldown from balth set bonus. In otherwords your manta heal almost got equal power to Mantra of Flame’s 2 first ammo uses.
That just made me notice how weak Mantra of Flame really is……

Burning focus + another stat. (Some this might never happen, depends on new sets in PoF)
Same as before here you just replace sinister with something that also add ferocity, healing power or concentration.
Healing: depending of what you doing at times, having stronger tome of resolve can be usefull. But i don´t expect this to happen much, but in future there could be new raids or fractals where losing a bit dps for survival is worth it.
ferocity: fury and 25% from traits, you already have ok crit. So just extra damage, some else can do the math if it beats sinister.
concentration: We always have to remeber quickness = 250 condi damage thanks to Imbued Haste. So keeping quickness up is important and we still put out some other boons. Hopefully they listen to feedback and found nice boon for axe symbol so this would be even better.

Those where my sets ideas for PoF dps builds. Going for max dps i would most likely go with burning focus stats, radiance, zeal and firebrand quickness build.

Support stats
I had problem finding a good stat set there. Because you want healing power, condi and concetration. Depending on things, expertise could also be ok depending if ashes of the Just works off our stats like venoms.

First so happy i kept firebrand wiki tab open, because been looking up numbers so much after writing in this thread :P

Anyway
I would have no problem with replacing burn on last hit of axe chain. Aslong overall condi dps is fine i will be happy. So not like i have something against your suggestion, just i kinda like it at 1sec, because it lower focus on the passive.

But removing 4sec of burn from axe and givng 4 sec of bleed. Then adding 0,5sec to ToJ. That means axe now on full chain would do 3sec of burn and 12sec bleeding. While old was 6sec of burn and 8sec bleed.
Fast math put my guess as 2sec of burn is lost, since 1 burn is something like 4 or 5 bleeds worth of damage but then later made up for with fact we have higher HoJ damage from using other attacks. So yes it could work.

My personal opinion in a older thread was Unrelenting Criticism bug should stay. Since bug makes it work with any attack. Has same result of upping condi on all weapon, while keeping HoJ low. Overall there is other option then buffing Hoj duration. (Unrelenting Criticism would also be easier to controll condi dps on other weapon, since each bleed stack is alot less damage then 1 burn stack)

All i know is. ALso if stays like now with no change i got 3 firebrand spec i am happy with, but they will most like work just as well with yout change. So i am ok with it, but it isnt first thing that need fixing for firebrand (Cast times, cooldown on tomes and ToR needs a good healing buff!! All those are far more important to me)
FB, Virtue and radiance AoE burn for stuff like pve maps
FB, radiance and zeal for quickness burn build. single target burn build
FB, virtues and honor for a pure support spec (this one needs testing)

EDIT: Found a guild, so jsut ignore

Hey,

I been back in GW2 for a week or 2 now, just enjoying season 3 maps. But i am slowly noticing the lack of not being in a guild, since missing people to talk to and being able to join events.

I am mostly doing PvE maps right now, but love finding some good people that can help me get into fractal (or small chance on trying a raid every now and then).
I do a bit of spvp for fun every now and then.
Never played WvW.

So would prefer a more casual guild that not scared of trying stuff. Have been hardcore raider in another game before and i really don´t want that “It is work” feeling back, i just want fun now!

Short info on me:
EU player and on desolation(not to interrested in WvW, so shouldn´t matter much)
Played since start, with breaks here and there for different reason.
Mostly playing guardain and looking forward to firebrand.

Feel free to leave a message here, in game or even a whisper.

You comparing weapons in a vacum and putting the blame on firebrand and axe. But when you look at whole kitten picture, this is not a firebrand problem, but a core guardain problem, that people been complainig about since release.
Why does core guardian lack a condi weapon?
Why is core guardian movement so slow?
Why is core guardian range options so lackluster?

Nah you can´t judge damage from options we had in beta testing. Nobody perfects their rotation that fast when new stuff to test and some of it is even bugged.

I did say sorry, and just said that how you comment felt to me. They still had that “the sky is falling” feeling. Also the higher they put ToJ damage, the more Permeating Wrath and Loremaster becomes must have, which then just lowered build option big time. While HoJ with weaker burns means losing passive isn´t a huge dps lose, so if you know now go for quickfire instead and virtues trait line is no longer a must have either.

I think quickness doubles attack speed and axe skill 1 highest amount hits we got without cooldown(6 hits per attack chain). 2,5s for full chain, though can´t seem to find this info again. So that 1,25sec with quickness that 8 attack chains. So 48 hits, 48/3 = 16 HoJ procs. so 16sec of burn
Sword would be 40hits, 40/3 = 13,33. That would be 26,66s of burn
Quickfire is 2 burns every 10 sec on 5 people. thats 10 burns of 3sec. So 30 sec of burn
EDIT: better add i was comparing damage output over 10sec, since thats cooldown for quickfire.

Hmmm just dawned on my quickfire might actually be stronger then both HoJ and VoJ in group settings. Hmm dropping virtues and going zeal for quickness dps build sound tempting now.

Brutaly.6257:

The burst specc is speccing tomes, the sustained specc is speccing quickness and melee. In melee setups there are two weapon sets.

Sure it could be on purpose but seriously what is the purpose of having one build that has lower dps, worse utility, lower survivability and has a much higher skill cap?

Please refrain from making stuff personal, like me being negative, it just removes credibility. If we dont express our opinions now nothing will change, its before release we can change stuff, Anet has a very distinct track record that they dont change stuff in any major fashion after release, just numbers and not features. I think Fb is a great design and has also stated that but some stuff is just messed up and i think we need to state that. The fact is that no other weapon has a place in a condi FB-build.

The fact is that all other weapon sets has 50% lower condition damage but if you find that balanced (i dont) its fine and if you find ToJ-builds being balanced with melee builds that is fine and i can only say that we have very different perspectives on balance.

Again you comparing damage of spec we have no idea how good the overall the dps will be, since it is still being changed. And you been so focused on you favorit weapon being nerfed becuase of ToJ change that you not looking at other stuff much.

Fair enough, the “negative” was maybe a bit over the line. But honestly thats how you comments sounded to me.

But here is the thing, yet again. I am not looking at each weapons damage by itself, i am looking at overall damage.

Also ToJ being low duration actually opens for MORE build options. Now it isn´t so powerfull, using tome and losing passive isn´t as bad as it was before.

Brutaly.6257:

Btw i noticed the axe and almost any clip with FB has an axe in it which is more on point tbh.

Ok, you can’t be that …….

Ofc they do, it was a beta test, axe is new, main weapon for FB and has alot of condi on it. Most people are going to focus they testing on axe, becuase all old weapon are the same as before, and even a bit weaker becuase ToJ passive…..

Brutaly.6257:

I think you missed the point, compare axe with scepter/sword/great sword in an FB build. What will the second weapon set be. Its a a matter of build diversity.

Good luck with spamming auto alone on your FB, the rest of the weapons are useless for damage.

The only thing extra FB brings in is ToJ, the rest of the toys can be swapped for already existing utilities that work better, no one will use mantra for burns when SoJ and medis deal more damage and bring more utility.

I imagine most will play tomes because it easy/cheesy but if you trait 1 (bad design) or 2 for quickness the nerf to VoJ is a big deal and not called for and the ashes isnt an option as a trait in quickness builds. You need the passive to much.

Can you stop looking at each weapon in a vacum?(think thats the right wording).
ToJ seems focus on high amount burn burst. When you make a spec with high burst that spec often also ends with an time where it goes into low damage mode, to balance out the dps. So having 2nd weapon set being a bit lower on condi damage could be on purpose.
Though i stand by a comment made about FB before “Unrelenting Criticism bug should not be fixed. feels good when ALL weapons can proc bleeds”.

Normal maps, ToJ will be resesting all the time, so i never touched my 2nd weapon set.
For pvp, ToJ was also being reset enough with my build, so my 2nd weapon set was used more for utility then damage.
WvW, yeah not played that enough to judge it.

And then you go into talking about build that been out and tweaked for many years, comparing to new stuff that still seeing it’s first rebalancing from community feedback. Giving feedback is always good, but come on always going with the “its the end of the world” scenario without thinking about the whole picture, when giving the feedback, It must tiring to be this negative.

Tome of justice is 1 sec of burn. When virtue of justice is 2 sec.

Short version: few condi skill = higher condi output per skill. Alot of condi skill = lower condi per skill, to keep balance. (That should be common sense)

Longer version:
Only reason Virtue of Justice was as good as it was, was because it was only real condi output guardian had, with some symbol burn and spirit weapon. But always seems like Voj was main one for guardian condi damage.

So if you went for condi spec, you where more or less only buffing very few skills, no matter what burning build you went for, which meant those few skill where allowed to output higher damage overall.
Firebrand is the other extreme, a spec filled with option for burning, so if you go for condi stats it needs to balance out over alot of skills. So making ToJ weaker makes perfect sense, now we got a good condi weapon, new burning utility and tome of justice.

Since you where talking about sword earlier, I startet to compare sword vs axe to get a idea of what difference is. Since i forgotten the numbers for sword (Doing LS3 maps i prefered greatsword with Procession of Blades, that just melts groups of mobs)
Skill 1: attack chain takes same amount of time, axe hits 6 times vs swords 5, and full axe chain is 4 bleed and 2 burn on top(can even be traited to around 2 more bleeds per full chain with Unrelenting Criticism!)
Symbol wise, sword is easy to hit with and does 6 hits. Axe is kittens +4 bleeding + counts as axe skill for Unrelenting Criticism procs. Will admit casting speed on axe symbol is annoying.
Zealots defense is only real advantage over axe, since that 8 hits, where last damage output left on axe is the pull that does 1 burning.

VoJ sword is 19 hits with all skills. so 6 burns at 2 sec(VoJ procs)
ToJ axe is 12 hits with all skills. So 4 burn at 1 sec(ToJ procs)+ 2 burn at 1 sec(Axe 1) + 1 burn at 2s sec(axe 3) + 4 bleed at 1 sec(axe 1) + 4 bleed at 4sec(axe 2) + 4 bleed at 4sec(Unrelenting Criticism)
=
12sec burn vs 7 sec burn + 36 sec of bleed. Just comparing those 2 weapons.
And those are base duration and without me looking at cooldowns, So they both build are about equal in condi out put. Now add in all other burning toys firebarnd is getting, if it is still hard to see why ToJ is 1 sec, i dunno what to say.
Just remeber they balancing stuff right now, so they could up ToJ passive duration if they feel firebrands dps is to low, if dps is fine they could up ToJ passive but lower burn duration on skills inside tome. THink positive we are more or less at lowest possible duration, so it can only go up! :p

For grinding/pve maps i will be pairing virtues and radiance with firebrand. Also same time i will start with celestial gear, balth runs and smoldering sigil with axe and torch for weapons. Waiingt on new stats before deciding what to go with, since a stat set with condi main, power, vit and maybe healing, sound like could be a good stat set for firebrand.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAr9fElDhRARlTwHcCtBwD8mA-TxhAABRfCAgZ/hF17ApSQTV/BNlfA8QAAA-e

Traits would be
Virtues: 1,2,1
First one is undecided for now
Absolute Resolution: my passive will always be active and i do have small bit healing from my gear, so sounded like a ok choice. Though i noticed the healing amout is so bad for FB, i am reconsidering if i should change this choice!
Permeating Wrath: yeah this trait is just to powerful not to take. axe is 2 hits per attack and alot attack are AoE, so this should be a huge damage boost.

Radiance 1,2,1
Inner Fire: Will be easy to keep up and thanks to virtues each boon is adds 1% damage, which is why i did take this over Right-Hand Strength
Renewed Justice, ToJ puts out alot of damage, so getting it back often will only help with killing.
Radiant Fire: I am running torch, and this trait just does so much for my build. First it gives me another Zealot’s Flame/Zealot’s Fire use, which actually is a good bit of damage. Already happy with it just there, but it also add 20% burn duration and faster torch skills. So much from 1 trait.
Amplified Wrath. up’s burn damage and sends out burn when blocking which ins´t a uncommon thing for a guardian to do.

Firebrand
Unrelenting Criticism: i like the bleeding and since axe hits 2 times it procs a ok amount. I hope it stays bugged and works for ALL abilities like last beta :p Though tempted to go for 3 more pages.
Legendary Lore: This was a easy choice, this more or less jsut doubles the damage output of ToJ.
Loremaster: Yeah i wanna use my tomes but do not wanna lose my passives. So this is a must have. Though always thought this should be a core guardian thing, just to make class more fun and interactive!

Short mantra stuff: Had to add this before going into skill choices. After playing around with mantras i found them to actually make firebrand a far more active playstyle, since ammo system and ok low cooldowns. Same time this bit from wiki is main reason they fit so well with axe/torch "used freely, even in the middle of other actions without interrupting them. "

Healing:
Mantra of Solace: This is maybe only mantra i will feel ok with putting on full cooldown. But the healing is ok and can be used even when doing other stuff. And each heal comes with a aegis, so a bit of burning thanks to traits.

Utility:
Judge’s Intervention: Burn, movement skill and stun break. Always love this skill and can´t stop myself from taking it. Also had alot of fun doing a burn suicide bomb attack in beta pvp. activate ToJ, use skill 5, start skill 4 and just before that cast time is done, i would teleport in and jsut aoe burn everywhere.
Mantra of Flame: i wanted some more burning on command. This fit well and again short recharge time for ammo.
Mantra of Lore: Felt build needed some on command condi removal. So added this, and a bit regen can never hurt, even if i still believe regen should be changed to stacking instead of increase duration it is now.

Elite:
Mantra of Liberation: Never really liked any of guardians elite. Here i get a 15 sec elite that stun breaks, gives Stability and Retaliation as a Cone AoE. Never felt bad using it, since cooldown on ammo was so short.

Now here is what made this build so fun for me, both in beta pvp and pve maps. Thanks to ToJ, Radiant Fire proc and mantras fast ammo recharge, you always doing something active with this build. I never really had any reason to swap to scepter, other then if there was a place where i couldn´t melee.

Honestly i think i will have great fun running around new maps with this spec, and from testing i did. Mount will only help overcome that slowness of guardian.
But i will also admit firebrand is not perfect, and could use alot of imporvement on tomes like cast time, long CD and Tome of Resolve being weak as hell(Legendary Lore doesn´t even help much. Make regen stack and Legendary Lore would be a good healing support trait to. But that needs redesign of regen, so doubt that will ever happen)

This need to be said, what happen to passive of this skill. with absolute resolve it only heals for 100?

EDIT: Just noticed i lost my whole post other then bit above. Guess i will have to rewrite it when i wake up ><

Honestly, i can agree with you about the 3 last trait. I ended up with heavy light because knocking away mobs that comes closehas helped me a few times. Otherwise i would most like be running the condi removal on block one.

I can understand wanting defensive stuff. So i can see idea in getting that over zealot’s- But you prefer ranged combat and don´t like traps. I am not seeing how this trait is gonna help you much, since the CC will still take effect and all you did was gain 1 aegis and a trap that might never do anything, since you prefer ranged. So you giving up a 10% modifier and cripple for a aegis every now and then on a gear set that has a lot health and vitality?

I know traps are not for everyone. I just wanted to show you the power of procession of blades(and greatsword whirling wrath) for burn builds.

Sorry for next part sounding a bit more harsh then i wanted it to be. But English is not my main language so not sure how to write it better, and it is just something you always should think of when making a build for pve.
This is very personal opinion and am of the opinion that people should play the way they find most fun. But tanking/bunker build do not have much use at all in PvE! You scaling a event up and do almost no damage at all. This doesn´t mean you should be going glass cannon meta, because people in downstate or death, are even worse then bunker/low damage.(not counting raids, since you do need some punching bags there from what i seen)
But let me end with this, having fun always comes first. Though for me failing a event because me, is never fun(i wiped to much on 1% in other mmo’s raiding!).

I need to ask something about that optimal build, because few choices seem bad to me (Just wanna hear reason, since there could be a good one) and also hope you don´t mind long replies, because i ended up writing far more then i expected.

Lets start with traits. You radiance and virtues i agree with, since i run em the same way. But your dragonhunter line makes no sense to me
1: You invested so much into spear of justice passive part and want burning, yet you went for big game hunter, which deals out far less burning the passive would ever do. And the 10% modifier only active when you tethered a target and doens´t work for condition either.
Even so, i went to pvp and test how 100% burn duration would be (viper amulets help get the % up :P). Single target auto attack passive can keep 1 burn running with hitting 2 every now and then, while the tether can get up to 3 burning with every 4 every now then, this only last around 3 sec’s. But thing is this is without any additional hits you do that can proc the passive with AA, symbol and deflecting shot, i can actually do more burst burn damage then tether, and yes i didn´t count in the burn from symbol. And i haven´t even talked procession of blades being able to stack up 4 burn single target.
And if we come to anything with with 2 or more target, bows AA will proc passive even more(If they close enough, it can do a 3 stack solo). Now comes fun part, on big group with permeating wrath, symbol of energy can get to 6 stack alone, while procession of blades can go to some like 10 to 14 stack if 5 targets stand in it!
Ok i wrote more about that part then i expect and i even went to pvp to test things out. But I can´t see advantage if running big game hunter with that spec and that gear.

2: you skipped zealot’s aggression. If you really wanted a 10% modifier this is where you should get it. Even though if you going for that gear, the 100% modifier won´t do much and having a defensive option is never bad. But this is ok, though i can’t live without cripple anymore, it just helps so much in pvp and pve(Teragriff can´t even charge me anymore!). But the build you linked already has high health and toughness, so defensive option get even less usefull.

3: Soaring davastation, seems like weak in your build to. You got low power, have to tether for the last 10% damage modifier and you lose 6% damage from pure of sight, for going close ranged. Now if you take zealot’s aggression and add in dulled sense, you now get vulnerability that actually buff your condition damage, and on solo target that 3 vulnerability. While in AoE situation you can get up to 13 stack vulnerability with bow auto attack alone! (For me this is a hard choice here is i prefer piercing light, since i run traps). Also remeber cripple and vul will help cover you burning.

Fast about those utilities you choose.
Heal: I agree with shelter, since that in itself can do burning thanks to amplified wrath.

Utilitys: Judge and the fire ring, are also great choices for burn damage and also gives a you teleport and condition removal. overall those are good choice.
I can understand why you want the signet for passive, but you should take a look at procession of blades, this is maybe strongest AoE utility there is for burn build. The amount burning this can throw out in a group is insane. Honestly this trap by itself can make me hit 6000 burning damage on some groups (Used silverwaste middle lane last night when doing kudzu collection)

Elite: This one makes no sense to me either, yes i know it can throw out a tiny bit burning but the cooldown. 240 sec cooldown, when you got option like dragon maw, renewed focus and feel my wrath.
Dragon maw would give you control/CC with damage and damage buff off 300power and 300 condi for 10 sec. 75 sec cooldown, which means it will reset 3 times in same time hounds does 1 reset.
Renewed focus, actually can make big game hunter useful for burn build, since it gives you the passive back and gives you a strong defensive option. 90 sec cooldown, means you get to use 2½ times more then hounds
Feel my wrath: This is the pure damage option, and benefits the group. you and 4 others will attack faster and get fury, so doing more justice procs and in general more damage. This can be done 5 times in before hounds is back.

Your gear for PvE i feel is overkill in defensive stats and woulnd´t work with burn dragonhunter. We aren´t a pure condition build, we do need power in the build. For me that means the new viper stat is perfect for us, good power, condition damage, crit and condition duration. So can´t disagree much with weapon, though for now i am using the free viper´s bow i got from doing story.
Do you really feel you need that much health and toughness for PvE? I am running with celestial armor as only thing that gives vit and toughness, i have done all pve maps and story. But if you feel that it is needed then keep it, but remeber dragonhunter works better as a mixed power/condition build if you are going burning route for damage.

My personal goal for burning trap DH, is go vipers with celestial. Enough celestial to keep my hp as it is now. And for spots i can´t get vipers(looking for trinkets!) i will go with sinister. This gives me power, condition, crit, tiny bit crit damage and will take me even closer to 100% burn duration that also increase my cripples duration, which also opens up for use of other sigil and runes, since i get duration from my gear now.

This was justice passive heavy build i am using in PvE(i only get downed because i get greedy with traps or screw up):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVEQNAT7fnsABlDhVdCekittendilAiSe77+03KAeg3MLBbwJE-TxhAABCcRAgZ/hrV+BpSQAeCAmq+T06GIEgi1A-e

Use same build in PvP, with only difference being i run celestial amulet and judge is changed to wall of reflection.

celestial armor with sinister trinket(Berserker weapons since i didn´t have time to farm celestial or sinister version). But my build focus on a lot of burning.

Plan is to replace sinister with new viper set and keep celestial armor, since i feel base health pool is to low. this will up my power and lower my crit and condition for nice duration bonus on burning.

I did story and open maps with sinister trinket, celestial armor and berserker weapon(This was later changed to a vipers longbow i got from story!) and balthazar runes(So condition damage and burn duration).

If you fell you can do fine with a very glassy build, sinister works fine and procession of blades does more burning stack then whirling wrath with AoE burn trait. But you do need micromanagement of position and where skill hits for bounce and piercing so you can get even more justice procs out of it.

My opinion after playing with burn heavy build, is i am keeping this build and replacing my sinister trinket with vipers(Or whatever ascended version is called) and my weapon will also be turned into vipers, while keeping celestial armor for a little bit heath and toughness.

EDIT: it just dawned on me you could meant pve and pvp. For pvp i prefer celestial, since i hate guardians low health pool, and i want both power and condition.

After seeing so much complaining about dragonhunter since it was announced. I just wanna give a thanks to Arenanet for making this elite spec. Since my biggest problem with guardian was always the ranged option, scepter just never felt fun and didn´t really feel long range with slow projectile speed.

First i need to ask something to see if i am remembering wrong, has wings of resolve gotten a leap finisher added to it since last beta? and also didn´t Procession of blade use to be 25 sec instead of 20 as it is now?

PvE:
This has been done with a celestial(armor)/sinister(trinkets) balthazar(runes) build, with of course with heavy focus on burning.
longbow: I had to change my playstyle a good bit for this weapon. But for me that meant i found a more fun and active weapon for guardian. The main thing i learned is that longbow, needs a good amount thinking on the spot with some micromanagement of targets to get maximum out of it. Because of my spec, i want as many justice procs as possible. So having puncture shot always hit 2 target was important, making sure skill 2 and 3 pierces enough mobs. Same time Deflecting Shot has just so many option, damage, piercing damage, block projectile, chance for boosted damage and blind. And it all end off with having 2 retreating shoot we can use while running to shot behind.
Yeah i am in love with it and my other weapon might end up seeing very little use now.

Virtues
Justice i only ever use the passive, losing the burn and cripple would ruin my spec. and few times i did try it, i never really seen the tether work at all, seems to miss alot?
Resolve on the other hand i love using the active. it saved me a lot of times when just running around maps, since i can get further away from mobs and get healed. Same time the heal is nice and big and i often use it just for the heal.
Courage i do like it. But yet to find a place in pve where it to useful. But i am pretty sure it has saved me a few times.

Traps:
Now this is one of the things for PvE i changed my mind about big time compared to last beta. Back then i liked em already for PvP, but not so much for PvE. I decided to give em another chance, and i am so glad i did. Test of faith and procession of blade turned out to be my favorite, while the last 2 normal utility ones didn´t feel worth using for story or open maps. Test of faith does good opening damage and most time mob will run through it at least ones, so overall damage it does is good. But if you alone with mobs you can make em run in circle in damage part, and that just feels good. While procession of blade is just a whirling wrath on steroids. Does more damage, gives more justice procs, gives fury, can be traited to daze, i can move away(Helps against big bosses) and bigger radius. How can i not like this for my build damage wise?
I still need to unlock dragon maw in PvE(1 hero challenge away)
Also against 1 of the story mode fight, i was glad healing trap was added, that huge amount healed with low cooldown when traited, just helped so much, in longer fights.
Judge’s intervention is a nice way to get in and drop traps. It isn´t need, since bow work fine at close range and you only gonna be there a short time. Traps only helps making dragonhunter even more active.

PvE stats
Didn´t expect i was gonna have to talk about this, but i was positively surprised they added a stats type that might be good for my setup. I am talking about vipers. If replacing sinister with viper’s i would get more power at cost of some crit and condition damage, while getting some nice condition duration. This to me sound like a nice option that could finally make me drop balthazar runes for something else.

I beaten story perfectly fine without to much trouble and yet to find a place in open maps where build didn´t work. Hell i manage to solo a few champion with it, even hero challenges.

PvP
I am not one those super pvp’ er. I am just going in there for fun and do mistake in there. First off all i never felt like i was making my team worse, hell i won far more match’s then i expected, since i was on a new spec and not use to it yet. Spec did fine in 1vs1 and at times i even did rather well in 1vs2. My problems in pvp was never spec, but team mates (not ressing or support points and just going for fights!)

longbow:
Alot of things i said about PvE part still holds true overall. Though since there is at max 5 other people, using bounce and piercing gets alot harder. But i find longbow to be a nice range with good damage to pressure people, which synergies very well with Wall of reflection.

Virtues
Justice: again in pvp for me it see very little use, but i have to admit, i did snipe a kill with pull low health guy into trap and it did feel good. But that not something i will do often, since need my cripples and burn.
Resolve: again leap can get me out tight spot at times and heal is ok size, This sees constant use. Though does kinda suck the heal can be stopped if leap is cut short.
Courage: cooldown is long, yet i keep using it, since in a big battle a perfect use of this ability can be what decides battle outcome. Either be to block while stomping or ressing someone or to control a huge ranged incoming of damage.

Traps:
yeah i am running with same traps in here, just add in dragons maw and changed judge’s Intervention to Wall of Reflection, since it lets me do range pressure without them attacking back, and if they come into close combat i got a 3 trap combo with on em. Same time i run sword to do a teleport trap dropping attack.

Other random pvp notes
Will need to know i actually having huge succes with heavy light in pvp, since if i see some one downed i can go in shot and proc stability and go for stomp. That has been working better then expected, since there is no real control over heavy light

Closing comment: I love dragon hunter with traps. It is a very active elite spec that requires a lot of moving around and thinking if you using both longbow and traps. But it doesn´t mean dragonhunter is perfect. Class still feels slow for a spec that suppose to hunt dragons and defenders dogma needs a change or be removed and still feel we need a condition damage trait (removed defender dogma and make zealots aggression a minor, since all dragonhunter should have it. Now there is a spot free for a new major focusing on condition damage)

The sinister is very close to one i am gonna try running. Only different is, i am running celestial(With sinister weapon, if i can manage to get em before HoT :P). Though i could see myself changing rings and so on, out with sinister if HoT’s new zones if i don´t need the toughness and vit i got from celestial.

But i wanna ask, why flame legion over balthazar? Only reason i could see was that 7% damage, but that only effects power based damage as far i know? Only other difference is low duration burn every 10sec vs a 3 times as long burn when you heal.(in perfect rotation, burn from heal can do more damage) and free quickness with balthazar when your health drop, which just means more justice procs.

Maybe just me that prefer balthazar, since it means i can run with 100% burning duration in pve (20% from trait, 45% from runes and 36% from veggie pizza(they ok priced)), same time it opens up for more fun on sigils like might on crit and might is so good for this build.

In pvp that would be 85% to 95% (20% trait, 45% runes, 20% from 1 sigil + 10% from other sigil)

I was using traps close to same way, though for me adding in wall of deflection was the thing that good trap build work even better. This made alot people either engage in melee and get trap “bombed” or disengage, since longbow putting out pressure and they expected traps.
Also on skyhammer did you ever place dragon mav over one those breaking “windows” on the floor? For me that meant free kill everytime :P (record was 3 people dropping to they doom with 1 dragon mav)

Honestly after playing around with longbow and traps. I am having hard time with normal guardian in spvp

New zones, so i decided i wanted to some mix in some defensive stuff for my dragonhunter(In general i hate the low HP of guardian). So last few weeks i been finishing of my celestial ascended gear and just need to add 2 sinister weapons for it!(Longbow and greatsword)
But if over time i find the defensive stuff isn´t needed, i might change some stuff to berserker again.

This gonna be used with a burn heavy build. (test of faith might get changed to judge’s intervention, will keep Procession of blades because helps with perma fury and should be good for justice passive)
Link to build

Best part of that is that it is a AoE burn, cripple and vul you are throwing out there. (First thing i tested in BWE3 was how permeating wrath worked with dulled sense and Zealot’s aggression combo).

Though i was using radiance and long bow(was beta weekend and i was here to test!). But if you managed to pull off a whirling wrath with more the 1 enemy. The amount stuff i was throwing out was just fun to watch.

Actually with f3 you got block on burning and making justice passive ready on block. We can attack while using f3 active. So f3 can be turned into a burn burst skill if you can time it right. Though i still want defenders dogma changed, hate fact it feels like a weaker amplified wrath! (zealots aggression should take defenders dogma place and then new major trait should be condition focused.)

I did play celestial amulet and balthazar runes with burn traits in BWE3, simply to test it. For me it actually pretty successful for the way i played and one thing i noticed after every match was, i often got “top condition damage”, though my power damage was higher on end screen, condition didn´t lack much behind with general same split. (Think i did one that was 350k power based damage and 300k condition/burning. ). This was with a trap build, since i had to test traps. Damage for this build has only gone up with Procession of Blades doing more damage and giving fury, Dragon’s Maw giving 10 might and Test of Faith doing damage when triggered(Protection is also a added bonus)

But longbow is the weapon that gives most option for use of condition damage, since we get a burning attack and also get projectile finisher (20% skill 1 and 100% on skill 2 and 3). This is a bit more random, but we do see fire fields and other condi fields in spvp. It can still be combo with torch in 2nd weapon set and we have the 2 only burning weapon attacks for guardian.

I will without doubt try celestial balthazar rune build again when hots is released (got ascended celestial set ready for pve and spvp already has amulet for it).

Now to OP comment. If you put good amount burn on it, i could see some people using it. But i would still rather take Procession of Blades which also hits 10 times, since those hits happen faster. Honestly i think we just need 1 little thing to make condition build good. Like condition on traps, justice passive working when on cooldown, a condition on crit/hit, cripple does damage or anything like this.

(Goes back to dreaming about ideas to make condition damage dragon hunter just a bit better!)

spam f1? Defender’s dogma is for the passive part. I will agree it combo’s with F3 on dragon hunter and aegis. That why it would be perfect as a major and not a minor, so you can choose it for a build that does block a lot!

Minor should be something that ok for all build with that said trait line. Defenders dogma biggest problem is it works against both the passive use and active use. And i need to also say, this feels like such a bad trait because we already got amplified wrath that burns on block and aslong you don´t have zealot’s aggression, this is WEAKER!

For people that want the passive part(burn and cripple) we will most likely already have supreme justice, we have very high chance of wasting the proc.
And for people that went for active use of F1(tether, burst and pull), the minor is useless a lot of the time, since justice is on cooldown.

Either change it to something new or make it better like “When you block, you active justice passive on that enemy and this work when justice is on cooldown”. It does the same thing, for passive your we get more burn and cripple, so we are happy and then active users will still see free burn damage coming out of it. BUT it is still just a clone of amplified wrath, and this is not even a cross class clone, both a clone of a trait from guardian itself!

I was running a trap heavy celestial spvp build with 3 traps in beta. For that build these changes are amazing. I will jsut go over changes on things i used alot and give my opion on em.

Procession of Blades: I already felt the damage was bad, yet i still used it. Since worked well combo’ed with dragon maw. All i wanted was a damage increase, though i had hoped it was through condition for condi/burn dragon hunter. But you also decided to throw me a nice fury buff on top of a damage boost, that just a huge bonus. So i am pretty happy with this change.

Test of Faith: This was also part my build. Some people might seen this as useless, but for me it was a insane area control for spvp. So i am getting triggered damage and i am still keeping the “moves through” damage. This trap now actually helps in my “point trap bomb” when defending in spvp and afterwards gives me a nice affect that helps control points. Yet on top of that i also get a nice protection buff. I was happy with this already, yet you made it even better.

dragon maw: you can never complain about 10 might. Also made “trap bomb” even stronger, since some traps damage will be doing more thanks to the might. Yeah i am happy, and looking forward to more free kills on skyhammer with this. (I had people rage when fighhting over skyhammer itself and i had this trap over one those disappearing window and 3 people fell to they death :P)

So i gained more damage, protection, fury and 10 might when i do my traps bomb in spvp. Yeah i am pretty happy overall with traps power now. (Even though nothing was added for condi/burn, which sad since dragonhunter was announced in start to add some kinda condi damage)

For rest:
Pure of Sight: So at close range i will only do 3% less damage compared to BWE3, while if they at range i am actually gaining 3% damage compared to BWE, The difference is 6% for clsoe range to long range. Yes it has gotten far better and now works for both melee and ranged. It is ok now

Hunter’s Verdict: I did not see this coming this way. I know a lot people been asking for a pull, so happy to see you listen to community. Hard to comment this without trying, but i will say i am happy you decided to give it a different cooldown. Though for me i still don´t see justice worth using, since losing passive is not a option for me! (that burn and cripple does alot of work!)

traps i skipped:
Purification: is still a big gamble overall. My opinion was, it is to much of health placed on “trigger” part. I still feel more should be moved to “when placed” part. Yet you decided to do opposite and put even more healing on triggering part. Nah still won´t ever wanna use it
Light’s Judgment: I still don´t care for vul from this, damage is meh and all you did was add swiftness and reduce cooldown. Yes trap is better, but but main thing it does still doens´t really do anything people want. i could see reveal part seeing use now and then in raids (If encounters ask for it)
Light’s Judgment: Some people might be sad about lowered damage. But actually i like the idea of a high defensive focused trap. aegis, stun break and stability(and cripple?) with some bonus damage, seem perfecly fine overall.

Closing comment. I was already ok with dragonhunter. But these changed only made me more happy to go dragonhunter for HoT, but i hope you not done.
I still feel dragonhunter deserve 25% run speed, it fits the theme and something we need. ( a slow hunter that has to dodge big game like dragons, makes no sense!)
Change defenders dogma, still more or less only has usefulness when we use shield of courage, since we can attack while blocking a lot. Change it to something like “when you block trigger justice passive on enemy”, does seem thing, but never feel like we wasted it, when procc when justice passive already was ready.
And last add some condi/burn please!! Make cripple do damage, burn/bleed on crit, let justice passive work when we used the cooldown or whatever(Adding more then 1 option is also ok :P).

For now thank you karl and other devs working on dragonhunter, keep up the good work!

OK after writing that big reply earlier. I decided to give pvp a good go again and this time focus on traps.

Mostly using trap only, i couldn´t get it to work at all. Though adding wall of reflection to the mix seemed to be the thing that made traps work for me. Since wall punished people for being ranged, so a melee would always come charging in. They where actually ok at this point, but not anything that me keep using em.

So i decided to add in piercing light. The cooldown reduction was a welcome thing and worked wonders for a longer fight me and a necro had at enemies lord. Daze is short, even though it effect for combat is hard for me to explain, it did help a lot and keept melee from just jumping in and do instant burst damage.
This also worked for my build, since dulled defense isn´t that good in spvp

Then for last bit i decided to see if i could get better use out of test of faith, since it was already doing good job of controlling the area(people where afraid off it or had to waste more then 1 dodge). Heavy light actually made me knock people through damage part more then i expected.
So yeah i am actually beginning to enjoy traps for pvp

Also finally got around to using shield of courage alot. This skill is amazing, a controlled block cone and still being able to attack. I have start using it a lot now. Still needs a lowered cooldown.

Nah. I am loving it and the more i play around with different stuff, more i am liking it. (There still some flaws overall though!)

Here is my feedback trying to play a celestial dragonhunter PvE and spvp unranked(I jsut pvp every now and then for fun).

Bow:
I actually love the gameplay of the bow and in pve/spvp i actually found it to be my preferred weapon of choice now. Though that could be because of “new shiny” feeling.
My biggest problem with it is, it seems to unable to hit stuff that on a higher ground(Sometimes only tiny bit higher). That Seems like something that needs to change, since a bow that can´t shoot upwards, seems wrong.

Puncture shot Seems to work and damage is fine overall. so overall happy, but if something should be changed i would prefer putting skill at 1/2 instead of 3/4. For reason it just works better for burning on hit and people trying to run burning build. (change to to 1/2 and lower damage, so it is same actually dps)
True shot First of all, the damage seems fine and for PvE the fact it is peircing and finisher actually makes very strong for the open world. I am slowly getting use to the root part. I get idea behind rooting for high damage skill, though does feel like need a bit more oomph. Also LOVE it being 4 cooldown.
Deflecting shot Skill shot idea is amazing. Had to get use to it being aimed ground target skill shot(Which is good, since i can run forward and shoot it behind me without turning!). That simpely makes it more useful. damage is fine, since it is never a DPS lose (small increase since only 1/4 activation) and if you manage to pull skill shot off the damage boost is nice. This skill is it a good spot
Symbol of energy I am glad you decided to up the burning, since this actually made it more useful for my spec. Damage seem fine and added in vigor is never a bad thing for group content. Though wished it could be a fire field instead just to make fit with burning part, But again happy with it
Hunter’s ward This is one is hard. I actually found it useful in pve. When a new wave of mobs come in and aim this just right it has helped me kill groups of mobs very fast. And in pvp i found it to be a good opener if i am late to fight that already started, though if i am in middle of a fight i can´t see myself using it. And also using is a dps lose, so the use for it is very limited. So has some use, but feel like it needs a bit more to it.

Virtues:
I like the idea

Spear of Justice Since passive is the same, nothing to add for that part. I love the idea of this skill, but fast found out, it seem very useless in PvE. I seen it miss way to often and losing passive for nothing is always a bad thing. My main problem is though Justice passive can be made so good, that throwing the spear is a very bad idea. Way to fix this is either add a trait makes passive keep going when on cooldown or make a trait that gives burning on crit. This way condition build will still be able to have some burning running. So for now i will most likely never throw my spear and i really want to, because i find idea of the spear and tether good.
Wings of Resolve i Think enough people have argued for more range, and i will agree more range would be good. Now for what it does, being able to leap and end with a good heal. I been using this on cooldown when playing, since a nice up front heal for me and my group is something i prefer to passive healing. I am ok with this, but more range and/or blast finisher would put this in a good spot. Thanks for cooldown change
Shield of courage I actually haven´t used this skill much. The cooldown is just to long, but i like idea and can see myself using it, i just need to learn it better.

Traps:
I seen big hate for these, in pve they are very easy to trigger and for pvp i had no problem with having em triggered either. I fine with “setup” and trigger time, seem fast enough to me. But i don´t expect ever to see people running more then 1 or maybe 2 traps at max. And i expect they only be slotted in because they really help with a boss encounter.

Purification The idea is fine, problem with this one, is if it doesn´t get triggered, the healing is just to low. higher initial heal and lower trap heal, would make this a good choice if it is turned into the highest healing skill with ok initial heal.
Test of faith The damage is good, and with knock back on bow i can see some nice damage from this in pve against melee mobs. For PvP it is just to easy to dodge out or just stay inside and wait. There needs to be something here that keeps pulsing and makes people wanna leave or make people avoid dodging in when you inside it. Think strong pulsing condition(burning)/damage inside ring, daze or other effect. That would turn this into a very good skill to use with bow.
fragment of faith This one i am fine with. Has good damage and gives a lot of aegis. I have yet to see a time i wanted to drop it, so never used it much. Though could be nice for 1vs1 with having 5 aegis for myself!
Light’s judgement Low damage, so nobody will ever take this for damage. Reveal could maybe see some PvE use if future bosses call for it. vul stacking needs to be replaced with something else, since it isn´t that hard to get 25 stack anyway and dragonhunter already can stack it fairly ok with traits. Other then a pve encounter that calls for it, i don´t see this trap being used much and i don´t like it.
Procession of blade Ok this is the trap i used most. Since it is the damage trap and hits more then ones (Justice passive burning). It is ok, but the lose of bleeding trait made this go from very strong to barely ok with burning build. Put some bleed, burning or torment (Torment makes sense, Walking through blades should hurt!) on it as standard.
Dragon maw It is a elite skill, yet does less damage the fragments of faith. The slow is nice and all. Can´t explain my dislike for this and how to make it better from my view. Maybe i should just force myself to try it some more.

Traits:
There has been some good changes here and getting close to being happy. But still some problem left.
Minor:
This part is where dragonhunter has most problems and it really needs some good changes.

Viruous action Nothing here, since that what enables spec.
Defender dogma This one seems useless, since some of us are traited for every 3 hit or we don´t block enough for it to be any good. Hell this is just amplified wrath over again and actually worse. Other block traits works because they can be use with multi block abilities(shelter and shield of courage). All this does it give us more burning, so changing to something like burn on crit would result in trait doing same thing, just working better. Other option would be “blocking causes justice to trigger on enemy”, but this also kinda a bad option because that just amplified wrath over again.
Pure of sight I do use bow, so it does work for me. But it just such a limited trait and with dragonhunter bow being only real range we got. This should just be added base to bow and then changed to 25% run speed increase or something else that.

Major:
Line 1:
This part is ok. Though one of the trait seems useless and another 2 traits are forced to certain spec, 1 for condi/justice user and other for power/none justice user.

piercing light Good to have trait for traps. But like i said earlier i never expect people to run with more then 1 to maybe 2 traps. Daze is good, but it is short and people get out traps fast, so as it is now i don´t see this trait as worth the time.
Dulled sense This one i really like. But it is because of a later trait i like it. Without Zealot’s aggression i wouldn´t even consider this trait. So this needs another trait to be worth it and doesn´t stand on it´s own.
Soaring Devastation putting some ok damage on wings of resolve, seems fine option for power build or people that doesn´t wanna go whole justice route with dulled sense and zealot’s aggression. Having immobilize on top, can be useful. Ok option overall.

Line 2:
This line i am actually ok with, The traits are fine, but because of the the skill itself cooldown, one these trait won´t be touched much.

Hunter’s Determination Having a anti-CC option is good. aegis can be made strong with traits, so getting aegis is fine. But getting a trap that does ok damage and drops 5 more aegis. This is actually pretty good. If zealot’s aggression wasn´t here, i would love to take this.
Zealot’s agression 10% damage buff is never bad, though it needs cripple for it to work. Thanks to bow 1 and trait itself, putting cripple on people is pretty easy. Now cripple on each justice proc is just a nice bonus, which also ends up being vul with every justice proc because of dulled sense. This + dulled sense + Permeating wrath + supreme justice = AoE burn, cripple and vul on very 3 hit. Love this synergy
Bulwark Idea is fine, but the trait gets very weak because of only working on a skill that has a 75sec cooldown. Either skill needs a way lower cooldown, or this trait needs to do a lot more.

Line 3:
This part is actually for me always been most boring part of dragonhunter and find this is what needs most work overall. Though it did get better with this beta.

Hunter’s fortification Condi removal was something dragon hunter lacked and with fragment of faith, trait that drops free “aegis trap”, shelter, shield of courage(passive and active) it could be a viable option and i could see myself run in pvp if it goes condi heavy.
Heavy light Knock back is not bad, problem is, that we can´t control it and seems to have 10 cooldown. Stability is never a bad thing, but feels strange to get stability just after i knocked someone else back. Seems like a weak option.
Big game hunter This is the dps trait, or should have been. Sadly vul we got better option for already. 10% damage is nice, but we need to tether people to get the bonus, so bonus last for 6 sec. So anybody that put points into improving justice will never touch this, and i expect it is these build that want something like this most. This needs a change or we need to get “justice passive works will on cooldown” somewhere.

Ok this ended up being a wall of text. But this is my honest opoin on dragon hunter and what i tried. I end bow is good enough for me to actually go with dragon hunter for release.

Since you talking about condi cleanse. Would longbow projectile finisher through light fields not be good condi cleanse, or am i remebering wrong on how projectile finisher works(Mostly play guardian, so never used that finisher type much)
We good at putting down light fields, skill 1 has 20% to be finisher, skill 2 is on 4sec CD with 100% chance and skill 3 is 100% chance with 10sec CD.

I made a topic a bit ago about same thing. For build this is what i wanna test.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJATRnsABNDhlDBedCEEhlAiSu7L/z3KAeg3MbBbwJE-TBSAABxs/QkKBD4SKcq6PSrrZgnEAAHgg0U+BA-e

Burn comes from virtue, symbol of energy, blocks, purging flames, judge’s intervention and radiant fire trait. Right placement you can also add in burn from projectile finisher on longbow(skill 1 being 20% chance and skill 2 + 3 being 100% chance).

Most thing in build should make sense why they are taken. Procession of blades is taken because i hope it has chance of stacking high burn fast, in same way whirling wrath does on greatsword

But with this build, gives you even less desire to use spear of justice. Since that passive is what keeps you condi going even with everything else is gone and every proc of justice passive = AoE burn, criple and 1 vul (Dream would be AoE cripple and vul. but doubt Zealot’s Aggression works with Permeating Wrath)

Spear of justice: Changes are ok, but i still see the “active” part spear of justice being ignored because you can buff the passive to be so strong and nice, that not having it for for 20 sec is a huge disadvantage. (Cooldown needs be alot lower OR make so passive works when spear is on cooldown. ): Ofc this i jsut view i have from trying to make a condi dragonhunter
Wings of Resolve: I already liked this ability. Lowered cooldown means so more nice healing from it. So pretty happy there.
Shield of Courage: Cooldown is still way to long. Though blocking everything could make it fun for dragonhunter that burns on block to turn it into a damage ability when timing it right.
Random Idea: for one major row of traits put in a trait for each virtue(bulwark/Zealot’s Aggression/soaring devastation) and then add “passive work when this is on cooldown”. This way dragon hunter can choose they favorit virtue for build and use it alot. While other 2 virtues need more thought about if they worth using.
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Longbow
Puncture Shot: Faster speed is never bad. But dunno how good this is to i try it out.
True Shot: More damage is always good
Deflecting Shot: I love this idea of double skill shot. First it can be used to block high damage range attack. But if you also hit target same time, you getting a nice damage boost.
Symbol of Energy: Thank you for keeping burn and even adding more on. I was sad when i heard the burn was going away, since was more or less only thing dragon hunter had for a condi/burn spec.
—————————-
Traits:
Piercing Light: I will miss the bleed for procession of blade. Faster recharge is always good and i could see daze being usefull at times.
Hunter’s Fortification: Some condi cleanse never hurts and has synergies with other stuff.
Dulled Senses: This by itself seem rather lackluster. But but then it comboes so great with next trait, i am actually perfectly fine with it!
Zealot’s Aggression: This trait i like. First it gives us good amount cripple that can be trait to proc even more often and we get more damaage to crippled targets. But what makes it shine for me is that with dulled senses we also applying vuln every proc.

My only problem with dragon hunter now is, for condition builds. I wish there was more then 1 condi output for dragon hunter. so they had burn and 1 more damaging condition (Making cripple do damage and scale of condi, would work perfect with new traits and give condi DH the 2 damage source for condition.). But hell this is me dreaming because of promise of more condi stuff for dragon hunter!

Just my input on what it is planned. I am starting to like dragon hunter more and more.
( though this build is sounding better now http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJARTnsABlDhNDBedCEEhlAiSu7L/03KAeg3MLBbwJE-TxhAABCcJFgZ/B0U+BpSQAeSBmq+T06aCAgAsbdju1Ni3i7W3Gv4Fv4Fv4Z36W36W36mUAKq2C-e )

I have no doubt the old build going for highest possible burn damage is better if you want pure burning.

But for my case, i liked longbow idea and wanted to do a longbow build that worked with burning. Also going into dragon hunter means each justice passive proc adds cripple and Vulnerability if you take right traits. On top longbow is a finisher(1 has 20%. and i think skill 2 and 3 are 100%?), so that gives a tiny bit more burning procs. But yes build is missing a few burning traits since you have to skip one line for dragon hunter.

This is why i want for a more celestial build (need to test it first test it next BWE, it could end up being very bad or really amazing)

Instead of writing another insane long reply or copy pasting same reply into 2 topic. I will just link you to my idea for burning condi dragon hunter. Also the important part to read is my number 2 post where i go over trait choices.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragon-hunter-for-a-burn-condition-build/first#post5470609

Always good to see i am not only one trying to find a nice condi dragon hunter.

Random note:
Anyway, making this post was a good idea. Made me think far more about my build and got me to add in the promised changes. This could work, but i will stand by making justice work 24/7!
——————————————————————
Honestly the build i was thinking off was something like this (Yes i like idea of celestial, but in end, i will need to test it with a power heavy, a condition heavy and a celestial build and see what works best. Hopefully i can afford Hots before next beta and then test there)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsfTlsAhyhYzQwXIQQELBElc3X+rvVA8AvZWC2gTIA-T1hAABCcKF+U9HY2fANlfLqvBSlgA8kCEFAYB-w

Biggest problem for this build is you will NEVER want to active justice, since you be losing burning, cripple and Vulnerability. This is main reason i wish they would make justice passive work while justice is on cooldown. Since the cool uses of virtues is one ideas i love of dragon hunter.

Traits and reason for em
Radiance:
Minor:
Justice is blind: Blind when we use justice is never bad. But later i will go into why this trait isn´t to good with the build
Renewed Justice: getting justice renewed after kill is good, works well with justice is blind and other later traits. So it makes possible for justice active to be used now and then when you sure something is dying
Radiant Power: Yeah i am running celestial for now and crit is a bit lower, this trait helps fix that a good bit.
For majors.
Inner fire: is kinda self explain, i am celestial and need more crit. With burning and my elilte, that should pretty good up time on fury and bring my crit to a ok place.
Radiant fire or wrath of justice: This is a choice thing, but prefer radiant fire, since help with getting burns on and with torch i can also do a nice attack with it now and then. But if you do alot using jsutice active, then getting signet of wrath effect everytime, could add nice amount damage and another immobilize. And if you don´t use torch radiant power loses out a tiny overall. (Since zealot fire is good damage and nice burning!)
Amplified wrath: More burn damage and free burn on block, build might not be high on block. But with shelter, courage and aegis that still some free burning now and then. But mostly taken for more burn damage

Virtues
Minor:
Inspired Virtue: I do expect to use my virtues at times, so getting a few boons at same time is never bad
Virtue of retribution: More boons when using virtues. Not much to say here
Power of the Virtuos: a bit more damage for each boon, is not bad, though build isn´t one with alot of boons, in groups you always get free boons anyway. But virtues recharge is also lower, so still has a positive effect other then minor damage buff
Major:
Unscathed contender: Now this tier is harder for me to decided. But This trait means you can often start with a nice opening attack and at random times mid combat get a nice combat boost. But master of consecrations of also ok if you like me like running wall of reflection and purging flame. Last one can also be used if you pvp and want something to help with CC. So there is some choice here.
Supreme justice: This one for me is one of the main traits for the build. Since i means more burns and works well with some stuff in dragon hunter. But it is one main things that make using spear of justice almost not worth it!
Permeanting Wrath: Again a buff for justice passive, that allows me to do a bit AoE damage with my justice burning. I like it, and greatsword is works far better for this one. (So greatsword attack 2 is very good for using passive of justice. So there is some choice in weapons)

Dragon hunter:
Minor:
Virtuous action: this says itself. Turn guardians virtues into new dragon hunters ones. I like idea behind em, but they aren´t perfect. They need lowered cool down and justice could use a “passive works when justice is on cooldown”, because tethering seems far to weak when looking at what justice passive can be buffed to! So please add that trait to dragon hunter!!(Or put on a another trait, like big game hunter. Where it would fit perfectly with build!)
Defenders dogma: This one is kinda meh to very bad, but now and then it ends up give free burn( + crippt and vul)
Pure of sight: Again a bit meh, but i am using longbow, so still usefull atleast.
Major:
Dulled Defense: The knock back part isn´t to use full in my build. But giving Vulnerability on each cripple, that is very use full and combo very well with next major trait (This is based of the promised change for next test)
Zealot’s aggression: More damage to cripple target is good, we just need more ways to add cripple. Oh wait each justice passive proc also adds cripple now. So every time Justice passive hits, we do AoE burning, that add cripple, that then add Vulnerability. Biggest problem here, this means you never want to use justice, other then when you sure they die and you can get it back with renewed justice.
Last trait: This one is undecided. hunter’s fortification give a bit condi removal and we do get random blocks from aegis and healing skill every now and then. Can be use full. Heavy light give knock back when people are close, adds stability at same time and add cripple and Vulnerability onto enemy. Not bad overall and can a ok option. And last we have big game hunter, this was one i was looking forward to. But after making my build i found out use spear of justice is more of a punishment for build then a nice boon/burst of damage.

Edit: I forgot 1 important thing, longbow 1 to 3 are projectile finisher, so even more chance for burning. Means purging flame has chance to make attack do burning from comboing.

This build is made with thinking about new change they talked about, which why zealots agression and dulled defense is used. Since Justice passive now cripples and cripple adds Vulnerability with dulled defense.

Arenanet please atleast think over idea of adding “justice passive work while justice is on cooldown” so we can make a good dragon hunter condi build. Biggest advantage of this is we now can both tether and get passive at same time. If you added this part i am actually fine with justice original cooldown.

kitten this turn into a long reply about build and my idea for a build. ><

When dragon hunter was announced, i like the idea of it. And then i read description saying “Guardians will find that the new elite specialization gives them access to some conditions and functionality normally reserved for professions of a more physical nature” and that we will be getting bleeds on traps.

But slowly reading info that comes from Arenanet, seems like my dream of a celestial burning(+bleed) dragon hunter is dying?
First bleed is removed(i understand the reasoning) and then they are also removing burn from the longbow symbol. So in other words anything that actually added to condition damage from dragon hunter has now been removed?
So does dragon hunter still work ok for a fun burning build? Since i kinda have to give up either zeal, virtues or radiance to get hands on dragon hunter and the longbow.(i will be giving up zeal). Same time tethering people also ruins the passive burning that very important.

And for fun i just came up with a trait i wished Arenanet would make.
Holy fire(best name i could come up with!)
“Justice passive also works when justice is on cooldown. crit has chance to burn” put into dragon hunter somewhere.
But hey that just a dream i have for future. Because this for me sound like perfect solution to a burn spec, since now we have 3 things that will keep burns going while fighting.
1st: Justice passive is always on. That passive does wonders on live already(when traited for every 3 hit). Where i never press f1, since that passive is what puts out most burning and helps me to get to 3 stacks needed to proc inner fire for fury.
2nd: Justice active that keeps pulsing some burn on to people when they got tethered.
3rd: Other classes can get bleed on crit from traits and a sigil. This is last of dragon hunters sustain burn output.

Since burning dragon hunter/guardian, is using only 1 damage condition. There needs to be ok amount output that can keep out going with some bonus damage now and then (When tether, justive and crit all hits same time). And other good part about this trait is it is not weapon depended, but favors weapons with a lot of hits in short time (GS 2, scepter 2 and sword 3 and Procession of Blades). Also with this we kinda got condition back on traps, just burning instead of bleed.
In end most important thing for making a good burning build work is just have justice passive work all the time, since it is the main burn output right now.

I hope that was readable and made sense.