/grumble
Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)
All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.
I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.
There was an excellent debate going on in a locked thread, but I agree that it did derail a bit from GW2. ( Still, I wish Moderaters wouldn’t automatically lock interesting threads rather than politely encourage people to get back on topic. )
So I’ll continue the question here: Is there any evidence in GW2 lore that explain the appearance of Dark-skinned Norn? Perhaps interracial relations with Elonian humans?
…Or was it simply political pressure to include dark skin in the color-slider? =/ If so.. that’s rather lame. As an African American myself I’d rather not be told: “Hey, there aren’t really such things as dark-skinned Norn in any GW2 lore or stories. But atleast now you can pretend there are!”
(That.. and somehow my sylvari looks more like me than my human does. x_x)
With the IP change.. Lockdown Mesmer will overcome shatter in pvp meta. Calling it now.
I know that the title sounds like a continuation of this thread but it’s not.. Sorta.
If you play Mesmer and have crafted your own build then I’m sure you’ve heard it before, whether PvP, PvE, or WvW:
“What is that? Whatever the hell you’re running isn’t viable.”
Many Mesmer players are a creative bunch, and there are loads of traits and utilities that are a lot of fun or highly interesting to use but don’t fit into the meta for one reason or another, and thus get labeled as unviable. As a result, builds that take these traits often too-quickly fall to the wayside.
Lets get something straight: Meta builds are meta for a reason, and that reason is usually because of all the competition, they’re the best at what they do. Shatter is the best in PvP, PU is the best at WvW roaming, Mantra/Phant is the best in PvE. But this does not mean that anything that isn’t one of these specific builds is bad.. quite the opposite.
I often feel that people get too caught up in terms and labels. “Viable” gets misused too frequently, good builds will be labeled “bad” if they are not the the absolute best, and creativity gets stunted as a result. These labels often don’t take one major factor into account: player skill.
Many of us have had instances where we’ve been happily playing our custom-made build and kicking all of the butts until we’re suddenly told that what our trait combo, amulet/gear sucks, even though they’ve worked fine for our purposes. This can often be helpful, and one should always keep an open mind for new information on how to improve but -IMO- one should never simply blindly compromise their ideas.
This is especially important in PvP, where meta builds reign in abundance. You’ll often hear that what you’re running isn’t viable if it is not shatter, ESPECIALLY if it is condition-based, but what is often overlooked is that there are actually a LOT of different good builds that can work very well all the way up until you reach the highest levels. But ask yourself: Are you playing PvP to compete against top tier teams and go to tournaments? If so, then you’re likely already playing shatter or have found a team that you can build around. These people are the few, but for the majority it really matters way less on what build you’re running as much as how well you’re running it.
6/6/0/2/0 can work. 0/4/6/4/0 can work. 4/4/6 condi can work and so can plenty of other combinations as long as the player behind the build is competent enough to make it work.
There’s the argument that if you could make these builds work, then you could make shatter work even better, and this is true to an extent, but again .. if you’re not playing for serious competition, then why shoehorn yourself into a build you don’t actually feel like running?
TL:DR- Don’t be afraid to explore! Your build isn’t as important as the skill of the player behind it, and experiencing different styles of play only serves to improve.
Hide yo’ kids! Hide yo’ wife!
WANTED: Charr Mesmer known as Rylock Dreadstone
OFFENSE: Too good at lockdown Mesmer. Beats up on other mesmer under the false pretense of “training” them. Makes false claims about beating up Aeoldyn.
+Taking StickerHappy hostage!
—-
This name-stealing lock-downing vagabond has gone unchecked for too long, 40g to any Mesmer that takes him down in a best of 5 duel. 20g for any other class!
“If you can’t beat em, spend lots of cash on their downfall” -Rich folk.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Now, let me preface this by saying I’m admittedly pretty lackluster at Ranger. Once longbow is gone I flounder pretty bad, and have ‘meh’ pet management. Nonetheless I was super hype to try out Druid. I’ve always played healer classed in every game they’re available and always loved/excelled in said role.
And Druid was no different.
Astral Force manipulation /management was fairly easy to learn. Healing allies was a cinch. I loved being able to play a viable healer when I got my hands on the spec but after about an hour playing I came to realize.. It’s really rather boring.
I like the concept of the spec, I’m cool with the idea of building life force to go into healer mode but the abilities themselves available to the druid are so bland, both functionally and aesthetically that I didn’t really gain any sense of excitement.
Druid was a bit of a disappointment in that it is so straightforward to play that I didn’t really feel engaged in the game. Even dropping burst heals (Or rather spamming AF 3 & 4) did not feel very rewarding. Am I missing something here? Or does the class lack interesting abilities.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Rob if you make players reflectable I may have to consider a new main. Zerker has already reignited my interest in War.
#asurahandball
@Menaka: Uh, I actually kind of like Winds of Chaos & Magic Bullet. =P
Cast that bouncing attack and if you’re not in range it wont bounce back to you.
This isn’t really a valid point as you wouldn’t get any secondary beneficial effect from an AE, either. You were not in range.
Anyhow, as far as an easily avoided projectile goes, yes, I guess an AE would have a slightly superior… actually no it wouldn’t. Now we’re mixing up buff-requests.
You’re now stating that the projectile nature is bad. I agree, or rather, I think more things need to be projectiles and those need to be rebalanced as a whole.But ignore the projectile vs non-projectile debate for a moment. Compare a single bouncing projectile skill to one which casts a projectile at a target, then on impact projectiles fly out from that target to other nearby friendly and enemy targets to produce the AE effect. I don’t see a conceptual problem, they’re two different ways to do AE (chain AE vs radial AE), and nothing more.
You can do either of those with projectiles, or without.
Yeah, my beef is specifically with abilities that have dual effects on-bounce. If I cast iDisenchanter, its usually because I want condition removal… Not conditional condition removal. An AoE is predictable, I cast it and know when I’m getting the effect. A bounce not so much. Worse, I have no control over which of my allies I can assist with it.
Recently I’ve been running with a 20/20/30/0/0 lockdown build and I’m really starting to believe that this may possibly be the best trait spread for a lockdown Mesmer. I wanted to take some time to breakdown and explain why I think this is such an awesome spread and what to look for when forging your own lockdown build.
CHAOTIC INTERRUPTION
After trying out both traits for months, I now firmly believe that Chaotic Interruption is a superior trait to Confounding Suggestions. While Confounding is my first love, Chaotic is more versatile (works with weapons like Focus and Greatsword) and offers a stronger effect. The immobilize can be increased with condition duration, and the extra condition can be devastating. While Confounding’s saving grace is that it doesn’t require an interrupt, Chaotic doesn’t require a daze, and you have more control over when it procs. Also, you can’t stunbreak an immobilize.
Think about it, in order to set up shatters what’s the one thing that usually comes first: Immobilize. Chaotic Interruption helps take away the need to do the ever-predictable ileap ->swap combo to set up shatters, phantasm hits, or blurred frenzy procs. Combined with things like Halting Strike, Vuln-on-interrupt, and bountiful interruption and you can get some glorious s damage off a single interrupt.
Part of what makes this build so great is the diverse group of weapons it can accomodate. So far every weapon combo but the torch has been tested to work well.
BUILD VERSATILITY
Lets take a look at two very different lockdown builds that both make excellent use of the 20/20/30 setup: Stickerhappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions and Sensotix’s Bountiful Interruption.
Phantasms + Lockdown: The 3 Chaos traits (V, VIII, and XI) all end up helping the phantasm very easily. Keeping an opponent (or multiple opponents) immobilized while Swordsman and Zerker shred them is great, but the bonus of 5x might on interrupt means that the better you play, the more powerful your phantasms become. Debilitating Dissipation plays an interesting part here, as you’re likely only going to have or 2 clones up at a time it’s easier to activate clone deaths via Deceptive Evasion. Sword clones are preferred as they make sure to stick to a target before dying messily all over them.
Boonshare + Lockdown: As a fan of support builds, this is one of my favorite builds of all time. Sensotix marries both concepts wonderfully (though I would’ve chosen offhand focus for more AoE interrupts) and in a way that makes neither feel forced. If you don’t know about how powerful Mesmer boonsharing with signet of inspiration could be, you can check Alissah’s Boonstorm Video. The Chaos line offers an abundance of boons, especially protection. Combined with boonstealing from Arcane, Lyssa Runes, and a little bit of luck and you can offer incredible amounts of boon coverage (even without the signet of you’re using sword/focus-staff).
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Helseth / Supcutie ftw of course.
Dat zombify though “My insanely good looks and rock hard pecks.” Pfft!
/hater
Sometimes. Successful block is also counted as an I tereupt
I.. think not.
TRAITS
Part of what makes 20/20/30/0/0 Lockdown so interesting is the build diversity it allows. You could trait for shatters, Phantasms, shantasm (/barf), condition damage, or even a hybrid build and still be effective. I believe that the most effective playstyle for this spec learns to combine an adaptive shatter/phantasmal playstyle; learning when to shatter and why but not overshattering.
20 DOMINATION – II (or V), VII
3x Vuln on interrupt, 2k+ damage on interrupt (or AoE cripple on clone death), Shatters remove boons, 5xVuln per daze… ’nuff said.
Halting Strike/Crippling Dissipation: Halting Strike is a good damage alternate to Mental Torment and 15% Illusion dmg. Its worth noting that Halting Strike can trigger “on-crit” sigils like Lightning and Fire. Crippling Dissipation is a very strong and very vexing trait. While it works fine when randomly spamming clones, using this trait more strategically can yeild some very impressive results in both solo and team fights.
Shattered Concentration: is a staple of this build. One of the reasons you bring a lockdown Mesmer to a teamfight is because of our ability to strip boons. Shattered Concentration gives us a way to constantly strip boons from difficult opponents like Warriors and Guardians and is one of the greatest forms of lockdown we can offer to a team.
20 DUELING – X
The first dueling slot is extremely flexible and offers a LOT of good choices. Deceptive Evasion, however, is a must for this spec.
Deceptive Evasion: Is crucial to this build. In order to be effective the build requires a high rate of clone production in order to effectively use clone deaths and pump out respectable damage via shatters, strip boons, and stack vulnerability on high-priority targets. It’s also a crucial component to our defenses.
30 Chaos – VIII, XI
Debilitating Dissipation, Master of Manipulation, Chaotic Dampening and Bountiful Interruption are all solid choices in this spec but Bountiful Interruption is arguably the best optional trait to take.
Bountiful Interruption: is a huge boost to the build and should be seriously considered. the 5x might plus a random boon is a boost to all forms of damage; shatters, phantasms, halting strike and condition damage. Practically essential if you’re running Staff, Greatsword, or Focus. It’s also worth noting that since we’re climbing 30 into Chaos we have a 30% boon duration increase. This means that any 3-second boons become 4 seconds, including those from Bountiful.
Chaotic Interruption: As stated above, CI is the focus of this build. Remember that this trait doesn’t just immobilize but also Blinds/Cripple/Chills. Since we’re climbing 20 into Domination, we also gain Vulnerability on interrupt AND have 20% condition duration increase.
UTILITIES
I personally use Blink, Decoy, and Mantra of Distraction. I know this leaves me with absolutely 0 condition removal besides Lyssa Runes, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take. The only required Utility is Mantra of Distraction so the other two can be swapped at will. A solid utility spread would be:
DISENGAGE: Blink / Decoy / Mantra of Concentration
CONDITION DEFENSE: Null Field / Mantra of Resolve
Lockdown Mantra of Distraction (recommended) / Signet of Domination
Between Elites, I prefer Mass Invis for saving allies and proccing Lyssa Runes but Moa Morph is also a viable alternative.
I hope this helps anyone whos looking to forge their own Mesmer lockdown build, and clearly explains why I feel 20/20/30/0/0 may be the best spread for lockdown Mesmer to go. I’m not saying that this spec is entirely superior to other lockdown builds, as each build has it’s own unique strengths and weaknesses and is catered to the personality/skills of their users. I’m saying that as a general template, 20/20/30 has everything a lockdown Mesmer needs to be effective yet is versatile enough to be customized to suit individual needs.
Its kinda lame how in the introduction to the video Joe gives props/respect to RIOT and then they come in to the thread and start flaming him…
With the IP change.. Lockdown Mesmer will overcome shatter in pvp meta. Calling it now.
Except that Mental Torment now turns Mind Wrack into a nuclear explosion…
That’s fine. I may be taking that along with my lockdown. But without needing to go to IP Chaotic Interruption is the next best pvp grandmaster.
Unless the Chrono tree has some crazy awesome stuff (which may still relate to lockdown)
They said multiple times during the stream when a certain trait emulates a skill, that it will be the same as using the skill in question, so that other traits can also affect it. It’s the same as using sig of insp, with the recharge, effect and cooldown reduction from signet mastery.
And besides, that’s also how skill-emulating traits work currently in the game as well.
With the marvelous exception of Medics Feedback
/walks into thread.
So, I think tha-
/sees pyro’s post.
/walks out and shuts the door.
Best bet is to find a thief and duel him, we’ve got a something of an alliance going with [Teef] so you could always feel free to hit up someone from there and make a request for some duels, plenty of helpful players there willing to spend time with ya.
(A little self-awareness game, highlighting your own mistakes. Maybe the flaws in your own play can help someone learn a bit about themselves! While my message to myself is for PvP, the thread is for everyone. )
Dear Chaos,
People call you good at this game, but you know in your heart you’re really not! You still random dodge for the sake of mobility from time to time, despite how much you advise against that very thing! Stop that, fool, no matter how cool jump-dodging may look. Speaking of jump dodging, you make it so easy to get immobilized in mid-air! The immob bug keeps locking you out of your skills!
Remember when you used to pay more attention to your skill bar than the actual fight? That was a bad habit that developed out of when you used to click all your skills. It’s a good thing this game allowed you to use (Shift+1 – 5) to replace 6 – 0 or else you may have had to go back to the clicker-days. When under stress (like when fighting Rylock) you go back to that habit, and when playing other classes (like Ele) you still do it all the time! Its uncomfortable, but keep working on forcing yourself out of that.
Speaking of, habits. Make it a habit to duel other classes more often, you used to suck at fighting other Mesmers until you had supcutie beat you into the ground for 3 hours (Jeezus I didnt realize how terribad my mic was. Supcutie had the patience of an elder dragon for putting up with that!) Spending a little time versing classes you don’t know too well like Engineer and D/D ele would be a massive help. Those ESL Monday tournaments -and all the gems they offer- are calling your name, get in there!
Now lets talk about Mainhand sword… For one, iLeap into Blurred Frenzy has become such a reflex that you keep doing it automatically. There is so much you can do out of iLeap, erase that reflex and start getting creative (at the very least that’ll help you stop wasting blurred all the time.) Blurred is a better defensive tool anyway, which is crucial since you don’t roll with Decoy all the time.
Also.. Get back up on your guide-writing fool!
- Signed, Chaos.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
When I said this, you threw a hissy fit.
That is a totally unfair overexaggeration. I threw no fits. I threw nothing, actually. I only responded with ideas I had. Besides, lookit: from the other post “clockdown”
- Wells are interesting, but only Well of Calamity ( 3k Damage + pulsing cripple/weakness/damage) was the most consistently useful/reliable. The high damage is nice, but pulsing weakness is glorious along with Power Block. Second was Well of Action ( 3s Quickness + pulsing Slow/damage ) which was reliable for making it hard to stomp/rezz due to slow and damage. The other wells don’t seem to have much place in PvP, Alacrity well sucks (/shakefist @ levetty for being right) and Precognition requires extreme co-ordination
See. I give props. =P Ross is just doing some overprotective-big-brother trolling.
@Ross there’s a difference between magic bullet and thief bounces: they only harm the target. You don’t have to worry about it bouncing back to you for a benefit, so even if it misses or is blocked its not a big deal.
Needing something to bounce back to you for a condi cleanse is a bigger problem. Increasing the number of bounces could help, but any enemy that dodges/blocks/reflects the bounce in-transit will still screw you.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
I’ve been wondering about this, I don’t think 5% is too bad. In theory, that’s a lot of reduction with even just one Glamour.
Lets take Null Field. Cast chaos armor 5 sec later drop c-storm, phase retreat swap to sword/torch combo. 5 sec later Null Field, sword combo, phase retreat…
Now in small scale fights, 1v1s or 2v2s this rotation is easy to pull. As things get more hectic it’ll be far less likely.
What’s amazing about that sequence is really the amount of protection you get.
I’m loving how Chaotic Dampening is changed, helps make Chaos Armor more tactical and staff a more interesting weapon in general. I think 3-5% is legit since the times you will be able to rotate a chaos armor chain is actually pretty situational. More PvP and roaming than anything.
Or.. Y’know. Could leave the traits as-is and make Slow half as effective on bosses duration-wise.
“Chaos Archangel (Downed like a scrub)”
I can’t lie. I’d lmao the first time I see that in-game.
.. If you had two Mesmer on a team, and both of them HAD to run different builds, which would you have them run?
(This can be for any gamemode as long as you specify which you’re referring to.)
Personally I’d go with one of tyhe following..
(Sorry for typos. Cellphone)
+Condition Damage/ 40% Burn Duration / Quickness below 20% HP / AoE Burn on Heal (10s CD)
Quite simply, these runes rock! I know they’ve been all the rage with Engineer recently, but I was wondering if anyone had been theorycrafting with these runes.
BUT.. WE DON’T HAVE THAT MUCH BURN APPLICATION!
That’s part of the beauty of it. The torch and staff clones are our only way to apply burns, but since this rune also adds an AoE burn on heal, it should make burning a noticeable added condition ontop of Torment/Poison(Doom Sigils)/ Bleeding, ect.
I don’t play condition Mesmer often myself, but has anyone else tried these?
You don’t want to see any good news here. The changes to traits are excellent for Mesmer.
For example?
Edit: Nevermind, I have seen your thread and its just your obsession with a lockdown build that is always going to be niche and outclassed by hammer warriors.
Owch, getting a bit abrasive there dude. What build do you currently run, and tell me how it’s not getting buffed?
Currently toying around with a 4/4/0/0/6 Maim build still trying to customize it to my liking.
At the expense of some power, crit damage and condition duration I get two filler Grandmasters.
See, now you’re just actively trying to hate on the changes.
If you honestly don’t see the potential this change offers Maimed builds, then we could get some great theorycrafting in and I’d be happy to elaborate.
If you do, and just don’t care because “wahhh offhand shield” then you’re only screwing yourself.
Absconditus: It’s 1s blur per pulse. Each pulse is 1s behind each other like every other well.
@Frenchfry:
Calamity – 5k damage bursts + cripple/weakness
Recall – 7s teamwide alacrity when traited and AoE chill
Action – Decent damage, aoe slow/quickness makes this a mini time warp.
Renewal – Glorious AoE heal and Condi removal (supcutie manipulated this with F5 for double heal bursts)
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Lookit and wallow in nostalgia!
I had thought the map was removed to be revamped and returned in a new form.. but it’s literally been years now and nothing.
Guys, seriously.. A new map is overdue anyways! Can we please get Raid back? Just dry it up (remove the water) a bit.
PvP/WvW
Need a build? Don’t wanna think too hard? Look no further than Domination/Dueling for a quick and effective build with little testing needed! What makes Dom/Dueling all the rage with these hipster millenial Mesmer? Well…
Grabbing Domination and Dueling may make you feel bland. I mean, who wants to walk outside and see someone else wearing the same outfit as them? Luckily for you, you can take this standard setup and add your own sense of style. (Preferably of the Chaos and Inspiration variety. Illusions line can be a bit… lacking without some creativity and skill.)
INSPIRATION
CHAOS
ILLUSIONS
SAMPLE BUILDS/VIDS
… Incoming! (Feel free to post yours!)
TL;DR: For any Mesmer having trouble making a build with the new system. Start with Domination/Dueling as a strong base for experimenting and branch out from there. It helps to have a solid foundation before theorycrafting in order to compare and contrast your work with the established builds.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Dude.. Lockdown isn’t even difficult or unique anymore. Everyone is running the same build. =[ I know I should’ve expected it (hell I even promoted it) but it kind of hurts my heart a bit.
However.. Mesmer is fun as hell. So many new things to play with. #boonshare
The ground shook, and the smell of ozone permeated through the air along with wisps of smoke. There was a circular trench four feet into the ground at the point of impact, and inside of it was not Aeoldyn.The Mesmer had been blown backwards and lay on the ground nearby, trying in vain to fight his electrical twitching. A human stood inside the crater, steam smoldering from his clothes. His breakneck momentum left him in a kneeling, and the electrical filaments that jumped from his eyes left them glowing a bright blue. As he stepped out of the crater, he folded his arms at the sight of the prone Mesmer. “Aeoldyn, I know you didn’t call me from the Mist Wars in order to fold over and die like that.”
Aeoldyn’s body fractured, shattering apart like glass yet drifting off into the air like paper. His voice echoed from behind the Elementalist.
“I know you’re busy, and I appreciate that you came, Na-“
“Gasmic.”
Aeoldyn smirked. “Gasmic. Right. Easier to use a nickname and harder for your enemies to catch you, but ‘Gasmic?’ Seriously? Even for a human that is a bit.. erm. Well, I can imagine the Orr jokes.”
Gasmic smirked. With his arms folded and standing so casually with two daggers belted to his pants it was easy to forget how powerful this mage really was. Gasmic was a guild leader of high renown in the Mists, and a fine fighter; so much so that if he hadn’t studied in the arts of illusions, Aeoldyn was certain he would’ve trained under Gasmic. “Yeah, keep makin’ fun, that’ll just make this all the sweeter.” The human replied.
“I hope so. I really need to clear my head.”
“Well, nothing like an Elementalist to wash away cluttered thoughts, right?”
Aeoldyn stared blankly, then drew both swords. “You fight better than you joke.”
Gasmic responded with a grin. He took one slight step forward before pivoting on his heels, an action that made fiery sparks burst from his feet, and suddenly he was jetting towards Aeoldyn on a column of flame. The Mesmer let his right leg slip behind him for a more solid stance, crossing both his swords up in front of him to block the oncoming Elementalist. Right before the two collided, Aeoldyn disappeared in a sudden burst of dancing lights, reappearing right behind the Elementalist and thrusting both swords into his spine.
But Gasmic had anticipated such a move, and with sudden burst of swirling wind he quickly twisted himself around to Aeoldyn’s side. The Mesmer’s sword struck only dissipating flames, and a smirking Gasmic ended his twist with a sudden backflip as the air that spun him suddenly surged beneath his legs and violently expanded between the two combatants, sending Aeoldyn –the real Aeoldyn-flying a dozen feet away. Not one to relinquish an advantage, the Elementalist already had the beginnings of another spell in his mind as he landed, but Aeoldyn was nowhere to be seen. Gasmic smirked, “You think I need mysight to find yo-Arrghh!” His words were interrupted by something sharp stabbing into his ribs. The Elementalist glanced over to see Aeoldyn, or atleast a transparent ghost-like image of Aeoldyn, standing before him with a sword drawn. Gasmic spared a quick glance at his wound, which didn’t seem too deep, and narrowed his eyes at the phantasmal illusion. It clearly wasn’t Aeoldyn, so if he went to attack it he could still be ambushed by the Mesmer, but if he ignored it…
A sudden ringing in his thoughts alerted Gasmic to the true Aeoldyn appearing at his flank, and he brought a dagger in line to intercept the Mesmer’s sidelong slash at his neck. As they clashed the Elementalist noticed Aeoldyn’s free arm pumping in for another stab, and again Gasmic intercepted the attack, leaving the two deadlocked. Gasmic inhaled, as if nervous, and the perceptive Aeoldyn smirked. He twisted his wrist to try and free one of his swords but quickly realized that Gasmic was subtly using magnetism to keep his daggers locked. The Sylvari lifted a foot to kick his opponent in the chest, but the Human was faster. His inhale drew oxygen down into his body, feeding the flames that roared in his stomach. His exhale blew a steam of fire into the Sylvari’s face! Aeoldyn’s eyes widened, and he leaned back as quickly as he could before finally releasing his swords and rolling away once the blaze singed the side of his head. Gasmic wouldn’t let him go so easily though. As the phantasmal swordsman lunged in for a second stab, the Elementalist closed his mouth and inhaled sharply through his nose, suddenly ducking underneath the stab of the Phantasm and stabbing his daggers into the floor. The magical flames that roared in his chest flowed out through the daggers and burst out in a ring between the two, trapping Aeoldyn inside and the Phantasm outside. Aeoldyn smirked, glancing over his shoulder at the fires and pretending that the sweltering heat didn’t bother him.
What he didn’t notice were the humanoid shapes that were forming in the flames.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Just make it so CS only stuns on interrupt (otherwise, you get a longer-duration daze). That will get rid of the super-easy burst setups that mesmers have. Stealth openers still remain, but they’re on a much longer CD than MoD. And unless the mesmer is point blank, you can still see the mirror blade or ileap coming and dodge it.
I dislike this suggestion, mostly be because I don’t feel like every single lockdown-oriented trait shouldn’t simply be “on-interrupt.” I’d rather see CS moved up to compete with power block again.
And people are jumping to extremes left and right here. I think for most people this isn’t about good players vs bad players; this is about the average player. And this isn’t about being the underdog, though that WAS an allure, I highly doubt the majority of players picked Mesmer specifically because of that. (I personally don’t know of anyone who has)
Games in general are fun because they challenge you. Chess wouldn’t be interesting if one player had a queen that could move in figure 8s and wipe out anyone in her path. Gameshark is only cool for a little while before all your cheat codes start to get boring because the entire game is trivialized.
Shatter and lockdown feel like that right now. And no, it’s not because “of course if you’ve been playing mes so long you feel like a god” nor is it “Mesmer Stockholm syndrome” or whatever else you want to come up with to explaiin away the fact that a 1-week Mesmer can absolutely dominate most of their PvP games.
Helseth and the Abjured make money from this game, so yeah they play to win. The rest of us play because we enjoy the game and particularly enjoy the class/build we run. In truth we’re not playing to win, we’re playing for the thrill. And no, that doesn’t mean you have to jump to the entire opposite end of the spectrum with “is losing fun?”
The fact is there is a wide gray area between playing competitively and screwing around, and that’s where most of us stand. The majority of Mesmers are playing an overpowered build, and it’s really hard to justify playing anything else.
OMG that Confounding Suggestions change.. Look at that, we actually managed to have an impact on our future balance changes. Score one for the Mesmer forums! =P
/grumble
Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)
All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.
I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.
Thanks for the feedback. We had the same discussion internally on that one. Back in alpha/beta, there were lockdown Mesmer builds that COULD keep someone down for 6-7 seconds…and it was brutal.
We’re afraid to go back to that, but as you can tell with these changes, we do want to augment the current Mesmer’s efficacy in regard to shutdown. It can just be scary if we go too high with it…..so we’ll think this one over some more.
SO HYPE! Thanks for the suggestion of posting it in the original thread kubetz. I had typed that reply from my phone, so I wouldn’t have thought to do so if you didn’t suggest it.
I read this whole thing as..
OP – Eles are OP! Nerf! Neerrff!
Forums – Well actually, Eles are OK. Celestial and Might Stacking is a bit OP.
OP – … Eles tho! Eles tho!
Forums – So, you want anet to intentionally “make Eles low tier”, like they haven’t already been for over a year prior to april?
OP – Yes! Exactly that! Shave them! Nerf them! Nerff!
Forums – How about (logical proposition)?
OP – Whatever idc Eles just need to be nerfed they’re overperforming because a lot of people use them and it’s hard to deal with!
Forums …
OP Neeerrff!!
I just.. I can’t.. What?
I kind of hate the term “expert” or “master” that puts certain players on a pedestal.
Everyone has a right to state their opinion, so saying “You haven’t played in X amount of time so your thoughts on the subject are expired” is no better than saying “You’re too new to the game to give your opinion.”
If a person has solid facts to back up what they’re saying then they have the right to say it.
I’d like to preface this by saying that in my opinion, all the wells are great (Kudos to Rob Gee and Team). Each well has an interesting role and is competitive with its counterparts. Each well offers a strong, unique effect and many of them work very well when combined. As a result, it’s really hard for me to list my favorite wells but from least to favorite it goes…
I mostly take this out of obligation. It’s a good heal, not much better than Mirror or Ether Feast except that it grants alacrity, removes 3 conditions, AND heals allies for a decent burst. It’s a powerful ability, especially when double-cast with f5, but if I’m not going supportive (or don’t need the condi removal) I wouldn’t choose it.
It’s not that I don’t like this well, it’s just that I like it less than all the others. I actually love this well, and its extremely useful in all gametypes, though a bit tricky to learn to use properly at first.
As a mini Timewarp, this skill rocks. It’s better dropped defensively on yourself or a downed ally/enemy, though the damage it does isn’t bad. Maybe it’s my love for slow, or how easy this skill makes it to stomp/rezz/prevent stomps, or maybe it’s the nerdy D20 Dungeons & Dragons (Or Pathfinder, if you will) dice for it’s icon but this skill won a special place in my heart.
From my least favorite to one of my most, well of Recall’s very slight adjustment has made it a competitor with Well of Action. Recall now does the same amount of damage as Action per pulse, while striking foes with Chill rather than Slow. The big difference here is the final pulse: 5-7 seconds of Alacrity makes a bigger difference than 3s Quickness.
I’m sorry, but this well is HIL-AROUS to watch. People get lifted dropped, and dragged all while taking heavy damage. It’s very powerful against anyone not smart enough to bring a stunbreak or not able to capitalize on the (very narrow) window of escape. When traited with Power Block this skill is glorious.
My favorite well, though not by a longshot. This happens to be the well that is constantly on my skillbar, it offers defense in the form of Weakness along with massive damage, heavily dissuading melee-oriented classes from stepping into your little circle of misery. The cripple helps keep foes trapped to combo other wells. For me, it’s the combination of a low cooldown, high damage, and plenty of utility (plus dat alacrity) that makes this my top
As a black man I’ve learned plenty about fighting for equal rights and seen more than my share of unfair dealings.
My point still stands: there is usually a plan and usually a goal. People don’t just scream out, there’s is sweat, blood, and tears poured into a unified ideal. Even if the methods are unorthodox, there is still a clear message desiring a specific result in many of the most influential protests
What would you like to see changed? Thieves nerfed? Mesmers buffed? Celestial nerfed? Is the problem really class-specific or an overarching issue with game balance? I’m fine with having a hard counter, but one hard counter doesn’t push a class out of the meta. A lack of defined role does.
Right now nearly all zerker classes are suffering, not just us.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
With the IP change.. Lockdown Mesmer will overcome shatter in pvp meta. Calling it now.
It might, but there is soooo much more viability now for sustain-y support shatter builds it’s crazy. You can take restorative illusions and shattered conditions in the same build while still dishing massive dmg.
oh snap. Alright I’ll take it back now until we see all the changes. Maybe making IP baseline was the “something just as good”
If you wanna frighten me, you’re gonna have to meet me in the arena Smallfry.
Keep in mind that our outgoing boon duration is higher than our incoming (3% for each boon on us, in a boonshare build it averages to 15% boon duration)
Fury it isn’t uncommon to stack 30+ seconds of thanks to the dueling minor trait and bountiful disillusionment. (BD)
Might comes from (BD) and everyone and their momma squirts might all over you anyways.
Retal is a bit trickier, it comes from temporal curtain’s light field and chaos storm (both of which are somewhat unreliable. Retal is the least plentiful boon besides aegis)
Aegis comes up pretty often, surprisingly, but completely uncontrollable. Chaos Storm and Signet of Inspiration combined means aegis every 15s at least.
Perma swiftness, though, is definite. Sigil of Speed grants 20s of swiftness per kill. Combined with chaos storm, chaos armor, and signet of inspiration along with temporal curtain and on average I share 1 minute and 30s of swiftness (not including duration increases). It’s not uncommon for me to give out 2 mins of swiftness on a boonshare.
Perma regen comes from phantasms chaos armor and signet, I never actively attempt to grab this so I can’t explain the mechanics behind it but chaos armor is almost constantly activated on me, so dancing around two of my phantasms tends to be enough.
Edit: And here’s a thread dedicated to the discussion, with builds and all.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Slight necro, but I wanted to ask.. Since the recent patch, how has dealing with this burst felt? Same? Worse? Better?
Also.. The link should have Power Block but I can’t edit that on my phone. X.x
Yeah, on each classes (Necro, Guard, Ele, Revenant) forum there is a sticky for the changes
Rising Lions (LION) is looking to expand its PvP sector, and PvPers of all levels are welcome to join.
Feel free to send me a PM, or shoot a whisper to Knivesbx or Aeoldyn.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
I do wonder what that “special extra” is that Anet promised the classes that only get an OH rather than a 2h or MH. I’m guessing they feel it’s already been revealed, but personally I haven’t seen anything that I attributed to that statement. I expected there would be something special about Shield that would make up for the missing button-abilities the 2h get.
I’m fairly certain alacrity and f5 -which would allow us to do things like put chaos storm on a 15 second cool down and spam it twice- meant to be “just as good.” and in my opinion I prefer continuum shift to three extra skills. Lots more possibilities.
OP is right, unlike other classes which got their mechanics changed, we only got add-ons.
“You know, not all plants are vulnerable to flames. The Eucalyptus, for example, has adapted to actively encourage fires to destroy other competition.”
To Gasmic, the oddest thing about that statement was that it wasn’t Aeoldyn who had said it; his phantasm was speaking as it lunged forward for a second stab. This time the elementalist didn’t dodge away, but flicked his arm forward as if cracking a whip. His fingers and wrist twitched, emitting a static-like noise, before filaments of electricity jerked from his palm. The lightning lashed out, striking the Phantasm in it’s chest, arms, and face with a thunderous boom. The phantasm didn’t jerk or spasm at all, but it’s leading arm dissipated into a thousand purple sparks as it’s blade was inches from Gasmic’s neck. Without stumbling, without missing a beat, the one-armed illusion’s sword appeared in its left hand and it slashed upwards to rip Gasmic open from belly to neck. The surprised elementalist jumped back in time to only receive a slight scrape, but the swordsman pressed him with a heavy chop down onto the mage’s skull. He crossed his electrically charged arms up over his head, taking a slight cut for blocking the blade and surging electricity into the phantasm. The illusion froze in place, staring blankly at Gasmic, before lightning jumped out form it’s mouth and eyes. Fractures raced across it’s body, and in a flash it fell apart into dissipated ether.
At the same time as the Phantasm had first attacked, Aeoldyn had arm extended and swaying rhythmicly. He was chanting something under his breath, over and over, focusing his thoughts on one core concept. “Obfuscate. Disorient. Confuse. Obfuscate. Disorient…” He continued to repeat this mantra, using his phantasm to buy himself some time.
He almost didn’t notice the roar of flames behind him.
The sylvari dove to the side right before something slammed into his back. The creature —a vaguely humanoid-shaped entity composed entirely of fire-- barreled forward past Aeoldyn and with one powerful beat of it’s wing-like appendages it pulled up into the sky and looped around to dive at the Mesmer again. Aeoldyn could feel the vines on his wrist writhing in what could almost pass for fear. Sylvari were naturally attuned to the plant life around them, and though Aeoldyn had boasted about some plants actively encouraging fire, his nightmare swords were not made from one of those plants. Worse, the fire elemental was not alone; the ring of fire that caged him had spawned two more. Seeing no real choice, the sylvari watched calmly as the elementals dove for him, firey claws stretched out to rend his face, and at the last possible instant vanished with a psionic chime.
Aeoldyn appeared outside of the ring of fire.
Gasmic, in a flash of lightning, appeared right behind him.
With a quick pivot and twist, Aeoldyn whipped both swords behind him in a vicious double-slash at Gasmic’s chest and belly, but the elementalist –his eyes still radiating electricity- blocked both with his daggers yet again. Aeol hadn’t put much strength into the attack, making it easier for him to retract and step in with a double-thrust to Gasmic’s midsection. Gasmic, his grin telling, threw his hands down in a preemptive cross-block, the ring of steel chiming throughout the valley. Aeoldyn vanished. Gasmic vanished. Both reappeared with their arms pumping in a flurry of jabs, crosses, blocks and counters. Unable to help himself, Gasmic started laughing, even while not missing a single block. Nothing the Mesmer threw caught him offguard, and no matter how advanced or deceptive the strike the elementalist always seemed one step ahead of the Mesmer.
Aeoldyn just didn’t understand.
… O.o uh, where all the stickied threads are.
Uh.. What is it that makes CS & Power Block combined too much?
The more I play the less I see with CS being a problem. In fact, if Mesmer couldn’t 0-100 burst then there wouldn’t be a problem at all.
The bigger issue here is how effective Mesmer can be versus a stunned opponent. The 1s stun out of power block isn’t nearly enough to be worth grandmaster, even with the daze/stun duration increases. Moving it to grandmaster would be the equivalent of nerfing it, no lockdown Mesmer would take it over power block, and shatter Mesmer would still have their crazy wombo bursts.
I’m really starting to get the feeling confounding isn’t as bad as people think. The stun isn’t so bad, the burst in that 1 second is. I’d rather an ICD increase to 10s (and would really rather see Pyro’s suggestion).
Grenth on a cupcake. xD
This thread made me wanna play a reaper
I like bouncing attacks. I don’t think the bouncing is the problem, I think the problem is several of the bounces are simply lackluster at best.
I will be honest with you, I think the shield phantasm is just fine, but I do agree that the torch phantasm and disenchanter are both extremely weak.
The problem with bounces is that all of the bouncing attacks are two-fold. This means you have to rely on it hitting the opponent in order to have a chance at getting the benefit. So if I want alacrity from iAvenger I need to make sure:
They’re just way too situational, and the odds get lower and lower as more people join the fight.
I was sitting there saying the same thing.
“OMG ileap now indicates range! … Wait.. it still fails miserably when I’m out of range, it just now tells me I’m a failure in big letters. =/”
Purecura you traitor!
And after that motivating rant about how much you love Mesmer! Muh heart can’t handle the stress.
When Staff 4 Chaos Armor gave Protection but you couldn’t gain it from combos?
When everyone had reduced illusion cooldowns from iCelerity only costing 5 points.
When portal was on an (untraited) 60s cool down.
When scepter/pistol offered monstrous Condi (/cough) damage
When the meta wasn’t established and people were free to explore without judgement?
… When people made guides. (/cough x.x)
Jeez.. Has it been 3 years? I’m all old now.
Yeah, I don’t think you should change your build either.
If you’re looking to play seriously.. Eh.. “Seriously” then shatter is considered the best for a very good reason, and that reason is why people who play this game for money do not use lockdown or Condi. Thieves are going to be your counter, and while you can do things to make the fight somewhat more manageable its always going to be an uphill climb that isn’t in your favor.
Changing your build is just going to change your problems. Now you have to learn a different role, playstyle, rotations and such just to be better off against one class? Alright, but now you’re countered by Shoutbow and celestial specs. Now you need to find how to make your condition damage stick through AoE cleanses in team fights.
Its still a tradeoff, and you’re still going to have weaknesses, just different ones.
At the most, maybe switching weapons may be a better bet. I dunno if you’re running sword+torch/gs but maybe staff/gs may suite you better for certain enemy compositions.
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