Learn 2 Play Mesmer Here! || Lookit! Gots me a youtube!
Mesmer Personality Quiz! Exclamation Points!
You don’t want to see any good news here. The changes to traits are excellent for Mesmer.
For example?
Edit: Nevermind, I have seen your thread and its just your obsession with a lockdown build that is always going to be niche and outclassed by hammer warriors.
Owch, getting a bit abrasive there dude. What build do you currently run, and tell me how it’s not getting buffed?
Currently toying around with a 4/4/0/0/6 Maim build still trying to customize it to my liking.
At the expense of some power, crit damage and condition duration I get two filler Grandmasters.
See, now you’re just actively trying to hate on the changes.
If you honestly don’t see the potential this change offers Maimed builds, then we could get some great theorycrafting in and I’d be happy to elaborate.
If you do, and just don’t care because “wahhh offhand shield” then you’re only screwing yourself.
As has been pointed out countless times since it was shown off, shield is just the perfect representation that Anet just doesn’t listen to us. If they can’t get that right why should we have any hope they know about any of our other problems?
But go on how will it help maim builds. Off the top of my head I’ve considered swapping dom for Chaos and doing a PU/Maim build but then you lose Shattered concentration which is one of the best parts of shatter.
Also I find it pretty telling how everybody is deflecting away from the main point of the thread, at least fay gave an answer so thanks for that.
This is a cry thread.
You’re not looking for constructive feedback, because that’s been given to you by multiple people. You’re not interested in theorycrafting new builds. What you want is someone to complain with.
I tried to reason with you, and used actual facts to prove that the information that we’ve been given is good news so far. Even despite your silly little ad hominem, I offer possibilities.
The simple fact is this: All we’ve heard of so far are buffs to many established builds, including shatter mantra and yes, lockdown.
But you don’t care about any of that. You’re too salty over the offhand shield. Obviously specializations aren’t going to remake the class: Mesmer is still going to be Mesmer and play like Mesmer. But to ignore all the new possibilities and potential because you didn’t get exactly what you want and to go “omg anet sux” when its been stated that more specializations/new weapons are on the way (in like 2018 lul) is ridiculous.
So what is it you really wanna hear? “ya anet sux mesmer sux they don’t know what to do with us. Expansion gonna suck.”
There. Feel better?
Technically.. since Ben Franklin invented the lightning rod, wouldn’t that make him an engineer? =P
Also, this article reminds me as to why I feel like one of the most underestimated human resources is our imagination. Imagination guides our focus, our ambition, and even our ability to learn and remember. People often underestimate “imagination” as being only for games and children, but our ability to imagine things has helped us overcome massive obstacles, invent amazing technology, and apparently even cure diseases through sheer willpower.
The one thing I think most schools fail to teach is how to properly utilize this.
Happy to help bro!
(Please note, I wanted to make this comparison thread sooner, but I was afraid of getting either Eles, Mesmer, or any other class nerfed. Its a kitten shame that people are scared to make informative threads for fear of nerfing, Anet.)
Hey guys,
Guardians and Elementalists have been lauded as the best support classes in the game, and I was curious as to what makes them so special? This isn’t really a challenge as much as a comparison of what support Elementalists bring to a group and what makes them so valuable compared to other classes’ supportive abilities.
In case you don’t know, support Mesmers can bring:
- Up to 25x Might / Fury (AltruismRunes, Signet) / Perma Swiftness / Perma Regen / Perma Vigor / Aegis / Protection (a bit unreliably) / Perma Retaliation / 2.9k AoE burst heals every 3 seconds.
In addition to the usual Portals, Reflects, Rezz, blah blah…
Would anyone knowledgeable on support Elementalists be able to enlighten me a bit? I’d like to work on making a comparison of all the different classes’ support abilities.
Chaos:
Minor:
Adept:
Master:
Grandmaster:
Inspiration:
Minor:
Adept:
Master:
Grandmaster:
Who cares, honestly?
Yeah Mesmer is in a bad place, and thats why a few of these tear-filled threads are good to make sure the devs notice, but how many of you here play the class for a statistical advantage over other classes?
…
Exactly. We play the class because it’s fun, everything else is noise.
Replying from phone so I can’t yet update the OP but these are all fantastic suggestions, please keep ’em coming!
Very good episode, gentlemen!
Regular featured build segment would be great.
Some things I have on mind:
- PvP corner – What are weaknesses of other professions and their builds and how to exploit them on your mesmers. What builds/utilities are well suited for that, etc. What should be a mindset of a less experienced mesmers when fighting them. Something like one enemy “build” a episode, for example: hammer/longbow warrior, dagger/pistol tieves, spirit rangers, etc.
- PvE corner – Each episode go through a specific encounter and describe how to fight it from the mesmer’s point of view. What are the tips & tricks, what weapon to use, what utilities, etc. You can discuss dungeon encounters, fractal ones, Tequatl, some farming techniques and places (Orr?). We have a host with a lot of PvE experience and we should put it to use.
- Featured forum topic(s) – What were the topics to read, if there were any, of course. Just a few people should really not pass. They may be only recent ones or a older gems you have bookmarked. Maybe there is not much to discuss on the show itself about them, but at least putting them into shownotes would be great for people who don’t have time to read forums daily.
- Community highlight – Each episode you will select a mesmer streamer/blog writer/youtube channel owner/forum poster that should people check and why. It will support them and also help to build the community. This can be also part of show notes without a lot of text in case there won’t be space for it in the podcast itself.
I think all the ideas can be supported by a forum topic where can people put down their ideas and after the show provide a feedback.
So we will have:
- Topic where can people advertise their mesmer streams, youtube channels, sites, blogs, etc.
- Topic for interesting discussions/posts in the mesmer (or other) forums. If somebody found something interesting (builds, dungeon tactics, ..) they can put it there.
- Topic discussing upcoming PvP corner episode. Let’s say you want to discuss D/P thieves so you will create the topic days before the show and people can provide their knowledge.
- Same thing as above but for the PvE corner.
I’m really digging that format, I think everyone would like that.
There’s also another factor: There’s no reward for supporting.
Out of curiosity, I made a healing-focused staff Ele at one point, and up until then I hadn’t even known that a title like “Chaos Archangel, Combat Medic!” had even existed. It actually felt pretty good to be recognized for the heals I was dealing out, but at the same time my damage was ungodly dismal. The tradeoff barely felt worth it.
Its a lot easier in PvE where support falls under heals/boons/reflects/CC and other things that prevent damage. I’m making it much more difficult for mobs to hit my allies, much more difficult for my allies to fall, while simultaneously increasing their damage output. One way to look at it is that I’m making each ally atleast as effective as 1.5 people. My team of 5 is more or less as strong as a team of 6.5, assuming I manage to do no damage. Its rewarding and I can immediately see the effectiveness.
In PvP, this isnt as much the case. Each person is too important for one to sacrifice their damage output for higher levels of support and control. You do not gain points for healing, and people putting together teams are more likely to overlook you in favor of what’s predictable and tried-&-true.
I think a step in the right direction would be to increase the effective scaling of healing power while lowering the base restoration of self-heals this way Guardians, Warriors, Mesmer, Elementalists ect who focus on healing power and support play a more critical role. Neverwinter has an interesting system where the Clerics’ heals are 60% less effective on himself than allies, eliminating the redundancy of having 2 Clerics on a team.
Hey dude, I don’t play Necro like … at all, but I think I could give some tips on versing a Mesmer.
The thing to remember is that not every Mesmer that uses stealth is a PU Mesmer, and nearly every Mesmer has a vulnerability to condition damage. Even if you’re not specced for conditions, poison HURTS and the rest of the conditions will often cause a bit of panic in your opponent. When fighting a Mes, one of the best things you can do is look at the weapon they’re wielding before deciding to engage.
Greatsword – They’re intending on keeping you away at range since the closer you are, the less damage the GS does. The main burst comes from a combination of Mirror Blade, Shatter, and MindSpike (essentially you’ll see them unceremoniously pitch their GS at you which does damage/summons a clone next you and then spike it into the floor + Shatter for a nutty wombo-combo burst) If you can dodge that, then all they have left is spamming autoattacks at range, summoning a phantasm and they’re vulnerable.
The other thing to keep in mind is the GS phantasm is one of the most deadly phantasms we have, when you see the Mesmer summon (raising the greatsword to the sky) try to jumpdodge (jump + V) the initial hit, and kill it before it has another chance to strike.
Scepter – They’re likely a PU Mesmer. Their main source of damage will come from Torment via scepter’s counter attack. If you have minions, let the minions do the work, unblockable wells work well too. Like most mesmer, PU Mesmer are much more vulnerable to condition damage than power damage. If you can manage to kite the clones and cleanse the torment they won’t be able to kill you.
Sword – If they’re wielding a sword, they’re going to try and shatterburst you. This means that they have to get into melee range to do damage, and that’s where you’ll excel. Don’t be afraid to drop marks on yourself or near you, rather than trying to catch the Mesmer with them. Make it nigh impossible for them to approach and when they do, if you can dodge the Illusionary Leap, you can render most of their burst useless.
Stealth – Yeah, stealth sucks but it has a couple noteable weaknesses. For one, stealth does NOT mean invulnerability: Wells, Marks, Life Siphon can still give away the Mesmer’s position or eff them up.
For another Mesmer stealth only lasts 3 seconds (4 if using PU). Counting down the time really helps predicting when the Mesmer is going to attack and when to dodge.
Oh.. and most mesmer only carry 2 forms of stealth. Only one is a stunbreak, and the other is either an Elite (5 second mass invis) or attatched the the Torch.
Pistol/Sword/GS Phantasms Kill them! Kill them asap!
… Ah man. I am such a traitor.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
That’s kind of the beauty of the upcoming Chronomwncer tweaks. We now have enough meaningful support abilities that you can ask the question:
“Are we going for defensive support or offensive support?”
I’m focusing specifically on bunkering here, which is why mantra heals are so crucial. The build I have in mind is pure defensive sustain, and so there’s no real need for boonsharing if it comes at the cost of our defense.
I entirely agree. That would be a much better change. Though 10s feels a bit too long, 5 too short. Something like 7-8s would be a nice sweet spot.
Wow that master of damage should be in both PvP AND PvE
Who has a new computer? THIZZ GUY!
After a bit of a hiatus I shall be back on GW this weekend, and as always I’ve got my sights set on PvP. Just giving a heads up that I’ll be sending out mass w/ for some duels and some team matches around 8pm EST saturday and/or sunday.
Also, Sunday, lets make something happen. Dungeons anyone?
UPDATE: This will now be an event that we’ll go for every Saturday and/or Sunday.
OTHER UPDATE: Since I spent the majority of my time on NA last weekend, this weekend I shall be getting smacked up in EU. =P
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Unfortunately Diversion won’t strip the stab AND daze them. Your best bet would be to chain daze (sending 2 or 3 clones at different distances to shatter via Diversion) or to F3 shatter two clones at once on the opponent.
Personally, I make Cry of Frustration my boon-strip shatter of choice, and don’t forget sword autoattack also strips boons.
Hey Lieb, sorry about the last thread. I meant to get back to you on it but.. sidetracked. x_x But alas, I make up for that here!
So lets see… Pistol/Focus means most likely they’ll be sword involved. Both offhands are good for interrupts, and you want something a little challenging, hm..
- Since Focus is so much better when traited, and reflects are hella useful, that’s 20 into Inspiration right there. If we trait Pistol, we’re looking at 20 in dueling. And the better mainhand for this setup would definitely be Sword.
So how about Sword/Pistol – Sword/Focus. Very melee-oriented, with a good amount of enemy control via reflects, focus pull, and pistol shot. The question becomes, would you rather be more damage-oriented or control-oriented? I see a couple possibilities.
For example… – 0/20/0/20/30 – I’d take Deceptive Evasion over traited pistol, and go sword+pistol/scepter+focus. (or sword/focus.. whatever floats yer boots) and Imbued Diversion (Illusions XII). Keep Scepter clones at ranged and sword clones in melee to get the most out of Diversion. Trait the sword, and I’d probably go with Glamour Mastery (thinking Feedback & Portal fun) but it depends on whatever utilities you choose.
Lemme know how you feel about that setup and I’ll list a few alternatives based off your preferences. A couple ideas come to mind.
Shouldn’t you call the build… clockdown? I’m sorry.
Alacrity + Blink + Kyhlo = Shameless porting!
Skip the vid, explain to me what happened at 7:57!?
BUILD
Sword + Shield / Staff or Greatsword (Runes of Hoelbrak ; Sigils of Fire, Energy, & Hydromancy )
Domination: Confounding Suggestions / Furious Interrupt / Power Block
Chaos: Master of Manipulation / Chaotic Dampening / Chaotic Interruption
Chronomancy: Slow-on-interrupt / Clone-on-shatter / Phantasms Resummon on Shatter
THOUGHTS
Overall Chronomancer Lockdown is great. Very distinct from shatter due to the lack of DE and still strong and effective. Played properly the amount of control you have over the entire battlefield (of.. 10 people) is phenominal. Not just because of interrupts, but Well of Calamity’s AoE weakness and area denial and Tides of Time’s projectile absorption.
This is going to sound odd, but the biggest thrill of Chronolockdown was the immersion. You can tell how much fun I was having in those clips (especially the “crushing it with chronomancer” clip) and it was largely due to feeling both challenged and unique. No one, not even a shatter Mesmer could do what I did, I felt such a high level of control and that was without even being fully proficient with the build yet. It’s also challenging, with new things to learn and master and a definitive role to play. Looking forward to the next beta!
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Oh my god. HYPE!
Illusions:
Minor:
Adept:
Master:
Grandmaster:
Shatteroar? Shimmerfang? Uh.. Telepanther? Pride of Mirrors? Chaotic Claws?
Dreameater? .. I’m lousy with Charr. X.x
I play the same game as you and I have my own experience with it, I’m allowed an opinion without it being called nonsense. It makes a lot of sense to me.. after all I’m sure there’s some out there who agree with me. Some people in my guild do, one of them is a Mesmer!
I agree. But look at the topic of your title and how angry your original post seems. From the perspective of a veteran player, this looks like mindless and stubborn whining.
The people saying L2P aren’t trying to just be jerks, what they’re saying is that what you’re experiencing is actually rather common at first but becomes a non-issue as you improve. The fastest way to do that is to change your perspective on the class:
Stealth is an advantage of the class, we’re not “abusing” it and we’re not being “cheap.” We have one/two forms of stealth in a 30 second period and each only has a 3 second time. Usually within that time we’ll dance around behind you. It shouldn’t take you more than a moment to retarget the real Mesmer.
If you’re seriously not trying to be a troll, then the best thing you can do to deal with Mesmer is to change your perspective on them. We’re not fun to fight when you don’t understand us, but once you do things become a lot more level.
Just be more open-minded in the future, man.
I think I’m gonna cry, it’s so beautiful.
I believe in Geesus!
Dude.. I… I don’t even know what to say.
Its all so perfect! Thanks for listening to us!
Too lazy for words.. so here’s an awesome vid!
First thing is first: Traits are being reworked so that you must pick 3 traitlines to specialize in and can go all the way to grandmaster for all three lines. This means we can easily have a build specced in Domination, Dueling, and Chaos.
Halting Strike, Shattered Concentration, Confounding Suggestions (or Power Block), Deceptive Evasion, Furious Interruption, Bountiful Interruption, & Chaotic Interruption all in one build!
So from the get-go we’re seeing a massive buff to Lockdown build versatility without even having to grab the expansion. This also means that Shatter builds can now grab some lockdown traits. Your standard 4/4/0/0/6 can now also grab Confounding suggestions/power block, and Furious Interruption.
Considering our Chronomancer* tree is almost guaranteed to have some nice new lockdown/interrupt traits involving Slow/Quickness, I’m seeing the potential for atleast three viable lockdown build specializations:
Dom / Dueling / Chaos – Dueling / Chaos / Chrono – Dom / Dueling / Chrono
And that is just considering what we know now. We’ve been told about some traits being merged, which opens up opportunities for Manipulations, Glamours, Signets, and Mantras, and some traits may become baseline abilities. If DE becomes baseline, I see no reason not to spec into Chaos, Chrono, and Domination.
As of now, I see the trait changes being a bigger buff to Lockdown than shatter. Since most builds end up going 4, 4, 6 it is pretty awesome that we’ll be able to fully max out these skill trees. With traits no-longer granting stats I have no idea what is going to happen to boon/condition duration, since both our 4/4/6 lockdown and 6/4/4 builds benefit greatly from the duration increases but all in all I’m seeing a lot of potential for lockdown to rise in prominence in the future.
One thing that does kind of bother me, though, is that I’m thinking we’ll see a large influx of lockdown players. While the style getting more representation is awesome, a small selfish part of me always enjoyed the uniqueness that comes with playing lockdown, being so different from shatter and condi. On the bright side, with so much potential build diversity down the road I’m hoping (or pipedreaming) the meta expands to allow for more build variety, even among similar builds.
Personally, I’ll be running with the Dueling, Chaos, Chrono specs first. What are you looking forward to most as a lockdown Mesmer?
(* = There has been no official confirmation that Mesmer specialization is Chronomancer, but judging by the abilities teased it is highly likely.)
Robert Gee please listen to this man.
Edit: Or woman.. Or strangely-computer-literate amoeba.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
All the elites are actually good now.. I’ve grown so used to mass invis that its going to be odd using this signet.
@tetrodox: All glamours got their cooldowns reduced in this patch, it will be 144 base.
Levetty.. What exactly where you expecting?
They’ve only teased a bit of info. Nothing much on new content for PvE/PvP ect. No info on our new traits, skills, utilities, elites.
I can understand bitterness about us only getting an offhand, but to take any good or fresh news and turn it into something sour because it’s not exactly what you wanted to hear.. Well that’s a bit silly.
We simply don’t know enough yet.
But we do know we are getting a sup standard weapon that will lock us into using Sword or Scepter, and we all know very well what Sword and Scepter are like.
And now we have confirmation that we are keeping illusions (don’t know why people expected any differently) and we all know how they preform in different areas.
What exactly is going to vastly change Mesmer gameplay when we have the same weapons and are still having to manage illusions?
Why wouldn’t we be keeping illusions? Why exactly is that a bad thing? Sword is meta for PvE, and still pretty good in PvP. Scepter is much better than it used to be, and while awkward still, makes for an effective condi weapon.
Calling our new weapon sub-standard without knowing anything about it is a bit much…
What exactly is going to vastly change? Builds, traits, utilities, elites, a new heal, and the fact that this is one of several specializations to come.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
I think it depends heavily on your goals.
Personally I think the safest bet would be either (Dom/Duel/Chrono) or (Duel/Chaos/Chrono) for PvP/WvW
For “pure” lockdown I’d bet: (Dom/Chaos/Chrono) but it remains to be seen if we can make it without the clone production of DE.
For support: (Chaos/Inspiration/Chrono), again depends on how well we can manage without DE.
At this point, I see little reason not to be excited. Sure there will be bugs, but if what’s been advertised is delivered then we’ve got a lot more than most of us expected coming our way. I still needa make that “I told you so” thread on Pyro
Or atleast monetary rewards. It sucks to know that while I’m PvPing and recieving little reward I’m falling behind on the things I wanted to get in PvE. Why not win gold in tournaments?
He’s been playing the game for over a year, doesn’t mean hes been playing PvP that long.
… Regardless, that first post is adorable. OP, the longer you play PVP the more you’ll look back at this thread and LOL at yourself.
Domination:
Minor
Illusion of Vulnerability: Interrupting a foe inflicts 3 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds.
Dazzling: Dazing a foe inflicts 5 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds.
Fragility: Deal 0.5% more damage to foes for each stack of vulnerability on them.
Adept:
Confounding Suggestions: Increases daze and stun duration on foes by 25%. When you would daze a foe, you stun them instead, with a 5-second internal cooldown. Fixed a bug that caused this trait to not update the skill facts for the racial skills Technobabble and Raven Shriek.
Empowered Illusions: Your illusions deal 15% more damage.
Rending Shatter: Shatter skills inflict 1 stack of vulnerability for 8 seconds on foes they hit.
Master:
Shattered Concentration: Shatter skills remove 1 boon from foes they hit.
Blurred Inscriptions: Reduces recharge of signet skill by 20%. Gain distortion and remove 1 condition when you use a signet.
Furious Interruption: Gain quickness for 3 seconds whenever you interrupt a foe. This trait has a 5-second internal cooldown.
Grandmaster:
Imagined Burden: Reduces recharge of greatsword skills by 20%. Gain 2 stacks of might for 5 seconds whenever you or an illusion uses Spacial Surge. All of your other greatsword skills inflict crippled for 2 seconds upon hit.
Mental Anguish: Shatter skills deal 15% more damage. This bonus damage is doubled on foes that are not activating skills.
Power Block: Interrupting a foe inflicts damage and causes weakness for 5 seconds. Additionally, if the interrupted skill has a recharge time greater than 0, it is put on a 15-second recharge.
Dueling:
Minor:
Critical Infusion: Gain vigor for 5 seconds when you critically hit.
Sharper Images: Your illusions inflict 1 stack of bleeding for 5 seconds when they critical hit.
Master Fencer: Gain fury for 5 seconds when striking a foe below 75% health. This trait has a 5-second internal cooldown.
Adept:
Phantasmal Fury: Your phantasms gain 10 seconds of fury every 10 seconds.
Desperate Decoy: Cast Decoy when you are struck while below 50% health. This trait benefits from the recharge bonus provided by Illusionist’s Celerity.
Duelist’s Discipline: Pistol skills recharge 25% of their full recharge when you interrupt a foe. Pistol attacks from you and your illusions have a 33% chance to inflict 2 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds.
Master:
Blinding Dissipation: When using a shatter skill, blind foes around you for 3 seconds.
Evasive Mirror: Whenever you successfully evade an attack, gain a projectile-reflecting barrier for 1.5 seconds. This trait has a 1.5-second internal cooldown.
Fencer’s Finesse: Reduces recharge of sword skills by 20%. Whenever you or an illusion hits with a sword attack, you gain a stack of Fencer’s Finesse that grants 15 ferocity for 6 seconds (maximum 10 stacks).
Grandmaster:
Harmonious Mantras: Mantra skills can be activated 3 times before needing to be channeled again. Whenever you use a mantra skill, gain a stack of Mantra Strength for 8 seconds, which increases your damage by 4% per stack (maximum 5 stacks).
Mistrust: Whenever you interrupt a foe, inflict 2 stacks of confusion for 6 seconds to foes in a radius around your target.
Deceptive Evasion: Whenever you use a dodge roll, you create a clone.
Almost all of them. People are exaggerating left and right, Mesmer is more difficult but most builds are still intact.
This isn’t specifically geared towards PvP, but all modes, even PvE.
There once was a time wayyy back before confusion was so foolishly nerfed that I ran a condi build that I love, but since then I’ve become so used to running power builds that I simply can’t find a reason to run condition damage for any build anymore.
So I extend the question out, for PvP, WvW, or even PvE, why do you choose condi over power?
When you log in and reply from your cellphone just to avoid socializing with the lames you’re surrounded by.
Well, you’d be right…except that you, like the devs, have a drastic lack of basic knowledge about how this game functions. Allow me to enlighten you so that you might be less prone to embarrassment in the future.
Pyroathiest.. Always making friends. xD
Sounds like Druid is for you.
Mage strike has been video documented missing a slowly moving Dolyak.
Staff phantasms attack gains a 10% damage boost based on how many conditions are on the target. Chaos storm + winds of chaos + shatter would stack a pretty decent amount of condis (bleed, burn, blind, vuln, confusion, poison, chill)
A 9k mage strike is a rare, beautiful thing.
I’ve been running with Sword-Focus & Staff since launch almost religiously. I’ve dabbled with other weapons, gained a profound respect for the greatsword, and even tried to force myself to run Sword/Sword because of how sick it looks…
…But I always inexorably go back to my main set.
Yet despite that I never really noticed something until very recently; Sword-focus/Staff seems to perform best when used as a practically full-melee spec. If that sounds odd, it’s odd for me to type as well since staff and focus work at 1200 range, but it seems to be true.
I previously stated why I like Chaotic Interruption over Chaotic Dampening with Staff & Focus (link) but I finally have a video to prove it, which also happens to partially demonstrate why the weapons get stronger the closer you are to the opponent, as opposed to the Greatsword and Scepter(autoattack notwithstanding).
Keep an eye out for 4:06 for the Focus immob into Warden+blurred and a little around 6:50 for the 1v1s.
Chaos Storm, Winds of Chaos, Warden, all three sword attacks, and Warlock all perform better the closer you are to your opponent. While staff is generally defensive, it also allows for a stronger offense with the sword (and it’s surprisingly decent autoattack). Staff’s autoattack is more likely to bounce it’s Might/Fury to you the closer you are, iWarlock is more likely to hit at closer ranges. When it’s not used for defense, Chaos Armor seems built for melee, giving cripple/swiftness/blind/protection in an engagement.
In this duel with a thief, (link) I kill him almost entirely with melee damage.
Has anyone had any different experience/perspective with this spec? Am I crazy?
Duel/Chaos/Chrono – Lockdown
Can’t see why this isn’t Dom/Cha/Chr. Dueling doesn’t add nearly as much to your lockdown as CS+PB.
Are you taking the line just for Duelist’s Discipline? We should compare Dom vs. Dueling as see if the former really lags behind the latter that much, as far as Magic Bullet’s cooldown goes. Alacrity/F5’s effect on optimal builds is the biggest question mark for this BWE.
Do we have any testers besides Tobasco, NICENIKESHOE, Jurica, Skcamow and Messiah?
I volunteer to try out Support/Bunker builds, since I’m curious about how effective those will be. Not sure exactly how much time I’ll have available, though, so make sure somebody else covers them as well.
You’re right, Dom/Chaos/Chrono is much more ideal for Chrono lockdown. I’m still in that “omg DE must have!” -mentality. The thing is, Dueling also offers perma fury. Combined with [30% crit chance on slowed targets] we could have an opportunity to trait tankier amulets like valk and still deal high damage. (Jurica actually put me on to the idea.)
But as for the purest form of lockdown, dom/chaos/chrono for sure. I’ve got blink, calamity (damage) well, and mantra in mind for this. Immobilizing enemies inside a well is gonna be sweet. Though I really don’t think the shield will outperform the focus here.
So, I log into the patch and I’m greeted to tons of people in the mists and a new sick looking finisher. Awesome!
I knew that PvP was going to have some “unlocks” so newer players to the PvP scene could have some sense of progression, what I did not realize was I’d end up going from 101 gold to 70g just off unlocking runes/sigils/traits alone! Wtf anet?
PvE players generally have more gold to spend than PvPers, and now any Joe Dungeonmaster can waltz in and unlock everything by spending a few coin and skillpoints?
Speaking of skillpoints.
Again, I don’t PvE often, so none of my alts have any map completion and my ele got power-leveled to 80 so I have few skill points. I fail to understand how making PvP progression more inconvenient for PvPers than PvEers was a sound decision.
Why not have put a Rank requirement instead?
That seems infinitely more reasonable and more rewarding for those who actually dedicate the time into PvP. Is there something I’m missing?
You forgot the new schtick, the ever-condescending:
“What do you suggest would be good improvements?” /trololol
I miss Allie. At least she made it seem like she actually cared after asking a question like that with some decent feedback.
Alright guys, today is the day. I’ll be working on compiling the questions on this thread and builds requested. Currently I’ve 3 builds of my own to try out.
Dom/Duel/Chrono – Shatter
Duel/Chaos/Chrono – Lockdown
Chaos/Inspire/Chrono – Support.
Do we have any testers besides Tobasco, NICENIKESHOE, Jurica, Skcamow and Messiah?
@keenlam: ooh yeah, Blurred Inscriptions is a good one worth mentioning.
@xaylin: arghh I’m gonna prove the greatness of this trait when chronomancer drops. Now you’ve got me determined!
FI works great on… Scepters? What am I missing, because last I checked Scepter had no interrupts… or are you just saying the Quickness benefits Scepter in general?
Last I checked mainland sword didn’t have interrupts either. =P all depends on your choice of offhand.. Like pistol, for the bleeds and it’s sweet interrupt trait (25% cooldown reduction on interrupt)
But yeah, scepter auto and confuse ray benefit highly from quickness.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Whoa. o_O I know the sword 3 change was harsh but jeez, Swish.
@Veruah: Lockdown Mesmer used to be the top Mesmer build in PvP for a short time, after the recent changes it’s no longer at the very top because of, as usual, Thieves being a hard counter to Mesmer. Lockdown Mesmer are still a strong choice in the right hands, but are also still one of the hardest Mesmer builds to learn to play properly.
In WvW there’s different types of players: Solo Roamers (lone players running around making a difference), Small Group Roamers (Group of players running around making a difference), and Zerglings (Large blobs) pretty much. Lockdown Mesmer fit in best with a small group, but can solo roam decently depending on the build.
In PvP lockdown Mesmers work well when played well: singling out the right targets, interrupting heals and channeled skills, boon stipping/vuln stacking, ect. They’re very strong in 1v1 fights but work well in groups. You can and definitely should still shatter, but wherekittenter Mesmer shatter primarily for damage first/utility second, your shattering is aimed to strip boons first/damage second. Depending on the build you can aim disrupt groups or focus on locking a single target out of the fight. To answer your questions specifically:
Swish brings up a good point: “Mesmer Interrupts are easy to chain and then all stuck on very long and inconsistent CD’s themselves.” This is one of the biggest mistakes a new lockdown Mesmer can make. It’s really fun and pretty rewarding to chain together your lockdown skills to keep an opponent stuck for an aggravatingly long time, but try not to get into such a habit. It’s better -but of course more difficult- to space out your interrupts and hold on to some (like a charge of Power Lock) to snuff key skills.
Shatter is the go-to build if you’re looking to be as meta-friendly and straightforward as possible and PU (defensive stealth-focused) builds can also work if you play intelligently. Lockdown Mesmer are uncommon, and good lockdown Mesmer are even less common, but the style is still fun and effective and can definitely be made to work when used properly… just not in Zergs or PvE. x.x
oh look another 20/20/30 build with a new name. its been the 10th?
Nothing personal, so sorry, don’t want to read any further. I’m somehow tired of this setup.
Dude, that’s straight ignorant.
Why would you judge a build based off the trait spread without actually looking into the spec? Hell, why judge anything on the surface when you have no knowledge of it’s contents?
This build is literally nothing like Blackwater, and if anything it proves that not all 20/20/30 builds have to be the same. Hell, there’s not even any trace of stealth in the build.
@StickerHappy: You should enter the build into the BoTM dude, it looks really interesting and very solid.
I like how all three of your Chaos traits are defensive/lockdown-oriented, yet you still manage to add some damage/control from Domination. I’m starting to feel like 20 Dom/30 Chaos is a strong core setup for a control build and this build furthers that theory.
.. Though, could you explain the gear choice? I saw that and went cross-eyed.
It’s a shame when someone comes here looking for advice and the first response they get is “Give up and look somewhere else.” That’s the kind of thinking that kills innovation.
I’d say to check out Kylia’s youtube channel, he’s a Mesmer commander(AVTR) with some nice videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVTkurHVFlQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUYESF4zSxwU9u2_VTE1EQVg
He also was giving advice as a WvW commander on the Mesmerized podcast .
http://sittingonacouch.com/the-gw2-mesmer-podcast-mesmerized-special-lessons-from-a-wvwvw-commander/
Power Block is currently bugged. It affects skill auto-attacks and can put thief skills on cooldown. Additionally, it punches through Defiant and puts boss skills on cooldown.
Right now, this trait is awesome and actually grandmaster-worthy. But in order to really build around it, you have to sacrifice 30-50 trait points (sorry, “old-school”) to really make it effective. This trait isn’t nearly as “exceptionally broken” as people feared it would be, even with the bug.
PVP
Right now Mesmer are struggling to find a place in the meta. We’re often outclassed in roles by other classes and are no one’s first choice for a dedicated tpvp team. Power Block, in it’s current state has some potential to change that, especially now that it can counter thieves.
Lockdown Mesmer are officially a thing. The 20/20/30 build has swelled in popularity and some say it’s the most viable Mesmer build currently (As supcutie says “most viable” doesn’t mean “currently viable”). If you really want to keep the flavor of GW1 lockdown Mesmer, you should keep the trait the way it is and at least explore the effects and really watch if it’s that “broken.” Power Block’s original incarnation is simply inferior to Chaotic Interruption and Confounding Suggestions.
PVE
Right now Mesmer are the only class that can interrupt a boss through Defiant. Seeing as how Mesmers are currently butchered lackluster in PvE (iWarden is bugged worse than before and doesn’t properly reflect // Mantra traits got switched for no apparent reason and badly damaged Mesmer dungeon specs) this opens up a potentially new build that may actually be extremely effective.
INSTEAD OF NERFING HOW ABOUT…
If Power Block must be changed, I think the best thing to do right now is add an ICD of around 5 seconds rather than reverting its functionality. 10 seconds or more would make the trait useless again, but 5 would be a nice “shave” (like how warriors got) to explore how the trait evolves.
TL:DR – If you revert Power Lock to it’s original incarnation it’ll be useless. Instead, hotfix it locking out rezzes and stomps and see what happens, MAYBE add an 5 second ICD if it’s necessary and see how it plays out till next patch, or simply fix it stopping rezz/stomps. This is an awesome opportunity to explore a potentially awesome grandmaster rather than neutering it into uselessness.
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Yeah azizul, that’d be considered a PU build the same way nearly any build that goes 30 Illusions for iPersona is a shatter build. He’s referring to the PU playstyle in general. Stealth, defensive boons, pop out to attack retreat into stealth.
PU has it’s uses, and can do some things that other Mesmer builds can’t (dat zerg-tickling), but fighting it is a pain. It’s simply not very fun to fight against since stealth is such a powerful defense, AND Aegis/Protection ontop of it. You begin to feel like “ugh, no matter what I do hes/she’s gonna just run and hide.” I’m fine with this only because I know that this game isn’t balanced on 1v1s and theres plenty of other things I could be doing rather than trying to engage in a 5 minute deathmatch. This is no reflection on the skill level of the build or of the person behind it, it’s exactly how it sounds: PU Mesmers are simply a chore to fight against.
“You’re not supposed to enjoy it. This is the entire point of my personal objection to these sorts of threads.
The mesmer is meant to be an illusionist/mage-trickster class. The mesmer, as the wiki puts it, “confounds, controls, or evokes emotion”. Clones are part of that. Shatter mechanisms are part of that. And yes, stealth is a part of that, which is why we have a half dozen ways of obtaining stealth.”
I disagree. I can enjoy fighting a thief because despite their stealth they’re risking their lives to try to fight me. We all can relate to the satisfaction of having a good fight, where you won because your reflexes were a little sharper, you picked the right ability at the right time, or you capitalized on an advantage and never let it go. The game, when broken down, is pretty much strategy vs strategy and if fighting other classes wasn’t enjoyable then… well there’d be no point.
Mesmer is a fun class to use, and can be a fun class to fight against stealth or not. Trickster or not. Quaelyn you and I have had some really fun duels, PU or not, but it wasn’t always that way. At first it was “Ugh this guy’s using PU, toughness gear AND Illusionary Defender in a duel. Win or lose this is gonna be such a drag.” because slowly tearing through defense after defense isn’t as rewarding/engaging as a higher paced more dangerous fight.
I began having fun when I changed my perspective. I told myself “PU is gonna be really prevalent and I needa learn how to counter it. Learn from each of my mistakes and and improve every duel.” and I did. And I began having fun seeing myself grow and get better fight after fight until after that day I never looked at PU Mesmers the same. They were demystified. I knew how to beat them because I had put myself through that exercise but even still… it’s just not nearly as fun as fighting any other build.
All the OP was doing, I think, is giving props to the people that haven’t jumped on the PU Bandwagon simply because of how easy it is to use. Hes not saying PU Mesmers don’t deserve respect, but he applauds someone taking the bigger risk of a more engaging build (which is likely being used for a different purpose than the PU build)
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
(Note: There’s some excellent discussion about my badness in the comments. Read on for more stuff to learn!)
Wow, so I didn’t realize I could just add notes IN the youtube video. I know it seems obvious to most but… idk.. I’d always overlooked that kind of stuff, still not use to uploading. Nonetheless some new vids up with notes and combo info and a guest appearance by Tealots!
THINGS LEARNED FROM THE COMMENTS
- Don’t attack an engineer on far. Let them die of old age.
- Stop spending dodges too liberally, especially not for the sake of mobility.
- Do not tunnel vision tankish opponents.
- More map awareness!
(edited by Chaos Archangel.5071)
Was hoping saying it once was enough but I’ll say it again. This is a work in progress. Try to give feedback based on the utility and synergy of the trait instead of the numbers. Slow every 3rd critical hit could also be every 10th critical hit. It could be 8s of slow instead of two. Obviously these numbers are an attempt to be accurate otherwise we wouldn’t even give them but a lot of this stuff will go up and/or down before HoT is released.
Jon
Hey Jon, with respect I think us giving feedback on the proposed numbers should also be valid. Most of us Mesmers are judging the value of the numbers (such as 1 boon removed per well) based on comparative traits/utilities such as Menders Purity or the reworked signet trait.
As far as the wells go, I think the trait should either reward being able to stay within the well (since combat is very active/mobile. And just about every class, including rival chrono can drop an AoE on it) or give a greater reward for the final pulse. Perhaps resistance.
As suggested, nay, demanded by NICENIKESHOE who’s up for some collaborative chronomancy this weekend?
I’m actually considering trying to get a little Twitch going, though I’ve never done that before, but it seems worth it for our first taste of Chronomancer!
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.