Let me get this straight, OP’s bunker build got busted by an S/D thief because all he knows is to stand rooted to the ground and hold a point? Larcenous Strike is not even that hard to avoid to begin with, the cast time is half a second with a pathetic range of 130 which is very hard to connect if the opponent is constantly moving. Perhaps you can learn to press the W key or the V key to avoid it? Also, you dont just spam 3 to win, the fact that you died to a spam 3 S/D thief, you have some serious l2p issues. A FS/LS initiative regeneration build has very little condition cleansing power and dies very easily from condition heavy classes. Thief is not a spam X key to win class and skill is required to make full use of all your spells as you have limited amount of initiative. Before you start QQing about thieves, how about you start reflecting and learn a way to actually counter them? Sick and tired of all this QQ.
I honestly don’t think the mortar would be unbalanced even with 3000 range, especially if it keeps this projectile speed. And good luck firing out more than 2 rounds before some random AOE land on top of you quickly destroying the mortar.
You don’t lose a skill slot by using a kit. You have the toolbelt skills for that.
You are failing to get the point. We are sacrificing a utility slot for what should be a “secondary weapon.” Eles have 4 attunments and can freely select their utility skills; every other class (except us) has access to 2 weapons, and they do not have to sacrifice a utility slot for it. We are penalized for something that every class has access to in some way shape or form. The tool belt is not all it is cracked up to be. Yes we do have the tool belt, but we are not able to select those skills, they are based off the skill in the corresponding utility slot. This creates a lack of options, a lack of options creates a lack of builds.
This is why the Ele is so powerful in comparison, they have access to not only every attunment by default, but can freely select their utility skills at the same time. Could you imagine if the Ele had something similar to what we Engineers have to deal with? What if Eles had to equip their attunments on their utility slots? So if they wanted every attunment, they would have to use all their utility slots for their attunments, and not have access to a weapon swap. This is exactly the kind of asinine crap that we have to deal with.
end rant
I like the OP’s suggestion, in fact I have seen this mentioned before on reddit and these forums.
Here is a counter suggestion:
6 classes share weapon swapping with a unique trait for each, Eles have Attunment swapping. Why not make the Engineer’s “attunments” our kits? Our traits will have to be reworked for this, but since most of our traits need to be reworked anyway, I fail to see any reason why this couldn’t be done.
Off topic but… combine turrets to make a turret kit.
kthxbye
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
(edited by Specterryu Quipter.8412)
Anyone having any luck with this utility? Seems highly unreliable to me, messed around with it for 30 minutes in WvW and the pathing is so pathetic that if you aren’t on flat ground then it isn’t going to work at all. Hell it didn’t even break stun for me when I actually shadow stepped…
Aaand the curse of ‘venomshare’ strikes again….
Seriously, Anet, just give thieves functional venoms and screw up venomshare. No one in his right mind will sacrifice an utility slot and a trait for a skill that needs 4+ people around you to work properly.
Recharge rate means the speed at which it recharges, so it recharges 30% faster not 30% shorter recharge. Think of it this way.
New recharge time = (old time / 1.3) not (old time* 0.7)
Why have 2 different ways of calculating cooldown changes in the first place?
Some traits use cooldown reduction and others use recharge speed increase. Cooldown reduction is additive and much more intuitive to calculate, so why not translate all recharge speed increases to cooldown reduction and adjust the numbers accordingly?
God knows we could use some more consistency in this game.
The problem lies in absurd choices made when the class was designed. Our main weapons are nerfed due to the existence of kits.
(https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247)
Thus we’re basically being nerfed for a choice we can make. And it doesn’t make sense. The kits already have a cost, the utility slot (and despite some what may say, the toolbelt slot isn’t comparable at all at an utility skill – area buffs have got small radius and often they must be AoE targeted, making them very unpractical; other skills have simply got poor effects, save for a few exceptions).
such as what?
Control effects and defiant stacks, for example.
Hammer is too much like toolkit for my taste, I’ll take a chainsaw however.
I main mesmer, and my first thought seeing that we get the new condition was thakittens an added perk that I’d probably never notice. Thieves seem to be saying the same thing. It got me thinking about the intended use of the condition. To me, it sound like a condition that should be given to non-mobile classes to punish mobile ones..and yet they gave it to two of the most mobile classes. It also probably should have been given to classes that were designed with conditions in mind. Necromancer is perfect for this – they have some real mobility problems, and can make good use of condition damage. Engineers, I think are very similar in those respects.
I’d like to know what experience engineers think about this. Is there something I’m not considering? Because I think engineers once again got socks and sweaters for Christmas, while thieves and mesmers are just going to throw out that shiny new toy truck that engis would kill to have.
“Torment. This condition is designed to play around with movement, one of our fundamental combat mechanics. Enemies under Torment will take damage periodically; as they move, they’ll take even more damage. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.”
First if all, we didn’t need any more diversity in our condition builds, we needed a fix to those we already had. We slice n dice our enemies, causing bleeds and we coat our weapons with poisons to weaken them even more. This is how a thief should be in my opinion.
Now for the real reason I made this thread:
Giving the thief a condition that will actually punish our enemy for moving around, really? This condition fits a necromancer perfectly, but not a thief. To survive against a thief you’ll have to stay mobile, or it’s just way too easy. The thief is supposed to be the class that really need to stay mobile to have any chance of surviving – therefore should this condition be our enemy, not our friend.
How this sounds is like: pop a huge backstab, add some torment and vanish in stealth: now just watch your enemy die as they run around swinging their sword and trying to hit us and avoid a new backstab… Sounds like we’re going to get even more hate from the crowds now.
I can’t wrap my head about the Last Refuge trait, lots of thieves are asking for a change for it, as it’s proc can mean 4s of revealed when the Thief is below 25% health, in other words, certain death. And then they think that it should proc more? I expected better from Anet.
Tarnished Coast
Traits are the main problem that venoms have currently. Venom traits should be removed, not added. Venoms will never be useful to a majority of thieves when they’re balanced around taking every venom trait and building around them. I’d rather see malleable and useful venoms that every thief can integrate into their playstyle than a single viable venom build that loads up on them while everyone else ignores them.
Why not just have venoms as f2 f3 and f4 with separate obviously more powerful ones in utilities and traits. Steal has got to be the most boring simple class specific mechanic in the game. Adding venom’s as a class mechanic could spice things up.
so the best case scenario is 561 × 5 which is 2800 damage total (every 45 seconds). WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPIE thats literally less than a dagger auto attack crit that has a 1/4 second cd. Were do I sign up for this awesome ability?
The new torment condition gives an unfair advantage to ranged classes. They should have just kept the way things are right now and stick with buffing confusion instead, since confusion is non-discriminatory among classes and melee/ranged
[Currently Inactive, Playing BF4]
Magic find works. http://sinasdf.imgur.com/
All I remember is them saying the were looking into adding more weapon options for those with a less variety of weapons, though that was posted some time ago. Anyways I would prefer greatswords, if only for the reason so I can use my chainsaw on engie
They’ve never said, as far as I’m aware. The only explanation I’ve ever been able to come up with is that we’re supposed to use Kits. Every single one of us. Regardless of preference for, say, other utility skills or specialization. As far as I can tell, we’re supposed to be perfectly fine having Pistol, Rifle and Shield being our only weapon choices because we’re supposed to all like using Kits.
I’m not a fan of this decision, as you can probably tell.
310 Zhaitaffy
4 to 8 of other various types of Candy
15 Fireworks
It is time we stop this. I thought maybe south sun would have been a turning point. I will be on the phone with NCSoft tomorrow after work.
Dragonband
(edited by Moderator)
I like the “Blow everything out of proportion until something breaks” method of fixing problems. Not only does it get people in the proper frame of mind to tackle a situation, but once everything is kittened the only direction anyone can go in is up.
I say we all go to every other forum and kitten about the best parts of every other class until they get nerfed to hell.
This is why thief community is so harsh and desperated at the moment. We have already been nerfed and other nerfs are on the way, still silly people complain and whine about us.
Do you think we’re OP? Roll a thief and let’s see if we are really OP as you say. People in wvwvw die because of thieves because EVERY thief is built for dueling and 1v1 while 80% of the wvwvw people are built for group fights. In fact in sPvP we are the most “meh” class after warriors.
WvW is a real mess right now for everyone.
Over and over again.
And only adapt to the fewer and fewer choices we have left. In 3 months I bet you every thief has been forced into a bunker/condition build.
2 months later after massive QQ from people “they have so many bleeeeeeeds”, the thief class is deleted and all characters converted to warriors.
Seeing as I have a thief (changes between S/D and D/P, always with Shortbow) and am quite happy with his performance… I maintain my point.
The “I have a thief” argument is null and void when I can have a bunker build and laugh all the way to the bank vs spike builds.
But I do run a spike build, because it is fun. I can escape sometimes, but when I screw up, it’s a definite death sentence.
Outside of all the thief nerf problems and kittening our class up, this recent change makes me not want to play with people. I DON’T WANT to be near ANYBODY, when all it takes is for an ally to step on a trap and I am kittened for 30 seconds. They’re absolutely fine, but it says to me: you want a chance of surviving, don’t play near teammates. Which saddens me, because I love chatting with small groups of people while capturing small points and helping cover people with my thief. If I land a backstab on someone harassing a teammate, they aren’t harassed for much longer because people seem to have this innate rabid dog syndrome, where they see a thief they go for it and nothing else.
GG Anet, I can see why NCSoft are constantly trying to reign you in.
Those eyeball weapons sure look like the revealed icon. There is a celebration in Southsun! Go get your “thief is dead” swords and daggers to celebrate the end of your class!
1 heal, 3 utilities, 1 weaponskill, and 1 weaponset combo (technically 3, but 2 of them are fairly rare, so we’ll exclude them for now). That’s what 30 seconds of revealed effectively renders nearly or completely useless (HiS isn’t “nearly useless” since it still heals, though it is severely UP without the stealth). Also of course, stealth attacks.
I don’t even WvW; kitten, I don’t even run a stealth build anymore – this is just a really, really poor precedent to set. I’m not interested in traps that deny stealth for 30s, or renders protection/regen/stability null and keep the target from gaining them for 30s, or locks adrenaline skills, or despawns a pet, or locks an attunement…
Don’t have effects that specifically target a class to the point where you almost completely nullify an entire traitline, numerous traits outside that line, utilities, weaponskills, and combos. It’s poor, lazy design that makes a playerbase lose confidence in you.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
(edited by evilapprentice.6379)
I don’t like the evasion thief. I prefer stealth.
Ill continue to spvp but I am not setting foot in wvw only to give free points to players with traps that kill my entire 30 points in shadow arts.
I’m tired of “adjusting” every patch and learning to play my class a different way. I just want to be able to login and have fun. I feel like my class is being persecuted. I used to play wvw almost exclusively until you nerfed revealed to 4s. Since then it has been all down hill for me and my fun in wvw. This patch just killed it.
If these traps make it to spvp, I will quit the game.
This is possibly the worst addition this game had ever seen.
It was never meant to target the veil Zerg.
Clearly meant to target solo thieves in wvw.
Any solo player can easily drop it in a 1v1 battle.
Soon all roamers will be carrying them and shadow arts will become pointless…
Anet has just forced all thieves to drop stealth in wvw because it too much risk to run into one if these traps.
Good job anet! I tried to warn you. Further removing any build flexibility thieves once had.
Some modifications that would make the traps feel more worthwile,
and even though these buffs, the traps would still not feel good enough to be worth
filling an utility slot for. Also I’d like to see a master perk for prolonging the
duration of the traps uptime effect, preferably in 10 trickery.
And also the traps should be slightly wider.
Ambush Trap: More hp to the thief spawned by it.
Tripwire: Should stay up for about 2-3 seconds after triggered to knock down additional targets that tries to pass it.
Needle Trap: Should immobilize and poison when triggered, and for 6-8 seconds afterwards cripple and poison additional targets that walk over it.
Shadow Trap: When triggered it should make you able to shadow step to its
location rather than target, should ignore pathfinding (like mesmers port),
longer uptime on the shadow pursuit.
(edited by Ghostwolf.9863)
When they first announce the anti-stealth traps and now reading how they work in the patch notes it really does come off to me like A-Net is trying to add a counter to stealthers inside keeps/towers. Which I’m glad to see given the plethora of stuff a thief can CnD off of in a keep. It can be incredibly frustrating to try and chase one down that’s inside. Plopping a stealth trap on top of a dead mesmer is going to be at least one place I always drop them among other places.
That’s my perceived intent as well, and it’s well intentioned.
However, this solution is misguided even for that problem. They have also stated that corpse scouting is a problem they intend to solve. Just make dead characters automatically waypoint rez after 15s or 30s and then dead mesmers in keeps are no longer a threat…then a stealthed thief is no longer a threat either. Fixes corpse scouting, too. sPvP already forces waypoint rezzes.
This trap is just more bad side-effect than it is actual cure.