Guild Wars 2

Thaddeus.4891:

Sorry, but that’s a complete lie. I respect you dusk, but that’s just non sense.

I have a number of raid-primary friends and their guilds who grind to 100 shards and then do other things with their week and time. They’ve repeatedly told me that if the shard cap were higher, they’d feel ‘compelled’ to do it. It’s the same reason why so many people like the 15k daily AP cap; when they hit it, they feel able to do other things.

Let me reiterate, though: The shards are not the rewards, the once-per-week chests are. The shards are simply so people who have bad RNG can still get shinies eventually. Obtaining shards is, by design, not supposed to be a grind or something to be farmed. It’s supposed to just happen so that over multiple weeks you’ll be able to buy your item. If you want to repeat bosses multiple times per week, that’s your prerogative. If the sole reward of helping a friend beat a boss isn’t good enough for you to help your friend, then that’s that.

I strongly feel that this is one of those cases where people who want higher Magnetite Shard caps don’t properly understand the intent of the system and the psychological impact on the players that comes from increasing it. The entire purpose of the 100 shard cap is so that completing 2 of the 3 wings with no failures will cap you out, and so that if you struggle a bit and need extra tries you’ll get it on just 1 wing. Those numbers are very specifically chosen, and they’re working as-is.

Once we have another expansion and another raid, it will use a different currency and have its own shard cap. When we get to that point, people who want to raid exclusively in GW2 will have even more option for rewards before capping for the week.

EDIT:
@ deSade: I do agree that having no other means for Viper’s trinkets (or other HoT-exclusive stat combinations) is garbage. Raids should not be mandatory for purposes of gearing out a character.

HoT sigils and runes. I don’t want to farm Auric Basin for hours to get another set of Durability runes…

Commonly used WvW food and oils. I probably spend about half of the money I earn in WvW on the food I use and regularly see people just not using any.

+1 on it being WvW only, we should start separating WvW and EotM so there’s less incentive to just karmatrain that map for rewards.

Ohoni.6057:

Those players, need to grow up. Realize that they actually have to work for something and go do it. Anet doesn’t need to and should never cater to that playerbase or they’ll do irreparable damage to their own game again.

Again, “those players don’t get to be happy,” but what if ANet wants then to be happy?

If Anet want’s anything it’s for you to play the content they make. Thought this was obvious. The content has hit its success mark, ergo the minority who want to get the loot without the work are not the target audience and need not be considered when we are talking about raids and improvements.

In other words, you want to be happy ? Go Raid.

Ohoni.6057:

You seem to think there’s this magic bullet that solves the problem in an easy mode. Sorry you’re just flat out wrong here. If they want the items, they need to go do raids as they are.

If they want easier content, the rest of tyria exist and living world 3 is coming Soon™.

Yes, but what about the ones that don’t want to do the raids in their current form, but do want the rewards? Your solution is “those players don’t get to be happy,” but what if ANet wants those players to be happy?

Those players, need to grow up. Realize that they actually have to work for something and go do it. Anet doesn’t need to and should never cater to that playerbase or they’ll do irreparable damage to their own game again.

You want rewards, go earn them like everyone else.

I think it is time to get this thread back to the basics: Are raids good for GW2?

Answer: Yes

Explanation: Pre-raids there were 2-3 threads a month talking about the game lacked end game content and that there was no repeatable content to do that kept players interested in the game in between content droughts. You’ll notice that in the last 6 months not a single one of those threads has popped up because we now have raids to fill that gap. This is a huge boon to Anet since it takes a lot of the negative pressure off of them in terms of endgame content and allows them to focus on appeasing the casual players.

Reducing the difficulty of raids or putting in an easy mode would defeat the whole premise of raids and bring back the multiple complaint threads about how there is nothing to do since everyone will just farm the easy mode and be done with it in minutes. In conclusion:

Raids = Good
Easy mode Raids = Bad

Ashen.2907:

I would rather see the resources spent on dungeons.

same, rather than useless easy mode raid…

Ohoni.6057:

Saying “I don’t know about the community” is a copout. Tell us what you want. It’s your easy mode, it’s your baby, you tell us.
Yeah like I said, CoF1 pre-nerf. 1g. People ran that in that time and got that reward and were happy with it. A bit more in reality, but I can’t be bothered doing the rounding.

Well I said that, I would play it with relatively minimal loot to progress towards my legendary armor, and once I had no need for that anymore, I’m not exactly sure how much generic loot would be necessary to keep me running it regularly, it would really depend on what else is going on at the time. I can say what I would want, but I’m not the only factor to consider, and as someone who doesn’t regularly Fractal or Dungeon, I’m not the best audience to target those factors towards.

That’s beside the point. If the raids need their rewards buffed beyond the legendary items, raids will get their rewards buffed. But it’s irrelevant for the sake of the comparative reward rates.

Well, it’s relevant when we’re comparing easy to hard rewards. If the argument is that raid rewards have to be X amount better than easy or nobody will run hard, and also factor in that the rewards to each would need to be strong enough to justify running them even after achieving all the unique loot, then the system must be viewed as a whole, not each segment in isolation from the rest.

That’s true, it could be moved into fungible assets, but that does not change that this group of people would be given a pretty huge economic benefit for the sake of enabling an easy mode.

No. They do not need to be given any benefit for the sake of enabling easy mode. They are not “owed” anything for “allowing” easy mode to happen, that is not their choice. Now I think it is reasonable that they can have a certain higher level of reward, but if a reasonable amount of reward is not sufficient, if they are given enough that they make significantly more than in any other activity and they’re still like “I’m going to need more than that if you want me running hard mode raids,” then clearly there’s no actual audience for hard mode raids in the first place and they’re just chasing the best possible loot. If that’s the case, then why bother bribing them to do content they don’t want to do?

No, have the reward payout for hard mode be FAIR, have it so that if there were no loot in the game at all, if every activity were purely “what do you want to do today,” then players who chose “raid” under those conditions would also choose “raid” with the loot being offered here, but there’s no need for more than that, no need to convince people to raid who would at all prefer to be doing something else.

No, I don’t necessarily think that people need to be bribed that heavily into doing hard mode raids. YOU think that people need to be bribed that heavily into hard mode raids. You have made these projections yourself; you thought 25s was a reasonable reward for an easy mode raid while 2g is the current reward. 1g is an actual reward that people will run for; you carry the numbers forward, 2g per kill becomes 8g per kill. It gets doubled during CE. Full clears with more wings increase the total amount of money earnt.

What is this CE you speak of? In any case, I staked out “three times the loot” as the target, so even if easy mode offered 1g per kill, that would make hard mode 3g per kill, not 8g. Still, I think even less could keep easy mode rolling for quite a while, as player chase the legendary components for the better part of a year or more (like dungeon tokens), and the novelty of the new content. The generic rewards aren’t encouragement to do it like in dungeons, they are just a token payment to keep the work/time balance.

People talk about the demise of dungeons as if it’s some great shock or tragedy, which it was neither. This is three year old content we’re talking about, the shock is that they remained active for so long, not that they’re dead lately. I don’t expect raids of any difficulty to remain high demand content indefinitely, I just expect it to remain in high demand over a reasonable period of time to properly return on the investment.

Again, any problems easy mode would have retaining players would only be WORSE if only hard mode existed. The players capable of it would earn all the unique rewards much faster than in easy mode, and the players who were not capable of it would never engage the content at all.

…Anybody who likes dungeons?
I’d choose otherwise. I think a lot of people would choose otherwise. I’ve already explained the damages that irrelevant dungeons cause.

I’d take that bet. I bet if you asked people who ran dungeons regularly before the nerfs: Which would you prefer, that they take the time to make an easymode version of the raids that is comparable in difficulty to dungeons, or that they spend that same amount of time updating the existing dungeons in some way (which would amount to basically tweaking some damage numbers on the bosses of 1-2 existing dungeons, tops)?

I bet they would choose the new raid experience over tweaking some numbers on the old dungeons.

Now, if you offered them meaningful upgrades to the old dungeons, like entirely new paths, with entirely new combat mechanics, that they might want, but that would be magnitudes more work than anything I’ve suggested involving raids, even for one dungeon, much less all of them.

Again these projections of how much work it takes are completely off base. Gaile’s already told you that you don’t know what you’re talking about if you aren’t an ANet dev. That you previously said “well just ignore the QA work” is exhibit A-Z.

And Gaile still hasn’t gotten back to us with QA different figure on how much time it would take. All she said was that on a completely different game that she was following, a completely different process than what I was talking about might take more time than I was assuming. And why not ignore the QA work? I mean, that’s work, it needs to take place, but it’s a separate team, it doesn’t slow down the efforts of the people actually building and tweaking gameplay systems.

I would rather see the resources spent on dungeons.

Ohoni.6057:

Because “service” and “favor” are not synonyms.

DICTIONARY: the action of helping or doing work for someone.
“millions are involved in voluntary service”
synonyms: favor, kindness, good turn, helping hand

Ohoni.6057:

True, a favor can be a service and a service can be a favor, however, if you request and receive payment for something, then it can still be a service, but can no longer be a favor.

Please, show me where you are finding a favor can not be enacted with the grounds that the favor will be returned. This is getting ridiculous. Ever hear the phrase “return the favor.” You’re literally arguing against a dictionary at this point.

Ohoni.6057:

Again, a mechanic in the real world is not immoral, he is providing a service that people require. If, however, it were possible to build a car that NEVER needed repairs, and auto-mechanics were actively fighting to prevent that from happening, then they would be the bad guys. Service industries are fair when they provide a service that absolutely needs to be provided, not when they perpetuate a broken system so that they can benefit from it.

A system deemed “broken” by you. One that requires work you are not willing to put forth. This system is not broken. You are simply refusing to be a part of it.

Ohoni – “I will admit there were some surprised reactions when I let everyone know my tempest had 1600 toughness.”

Ohoni.6057:

But you understand that there are many people who never want to be good at the existing raids, that “git gud” is actually NOT the best outcome for every player, right?

Sure, and what this essentially means is you will not experience the content and you will not reap the rewards. You can apply this line of thought to almost anything in the same sense.

Astralporing.1957:

TheRandomGuy.7246:

From their AMA on reddit.

The same AMA that said they have stable development situation and don’t need to reshuffle devs to put out fires anymore, a week before they dissolved legendary team?

(it was also the same AMA where MO did everything he could to persuade players that Raids are a completely inconsequential side project they use only a tiny fraction of resources on, which suggested he does not consider them that a shining success. If he did, he’d not have been downplaying their role)

“Dev data says that raids are successful and target audience loves them. But I dislike them! They are lying!”

Ohoni.6057:

We know how big the jar is, and we know it contains jellybeans, because, to break the analogy, it’s a game, so it obviously doesn’t contain car parts, it contains bits of a game. The jar is:
-Take The existing raid wing.
-Copy and paste it.
-Use the existing “which raid wing do you want to enter” UI to allow choice between -Spirit Vale (hard) and Spirit Vale (easy).
-Take that second one, and tweak it down a bit. Reduce boss HP by 5-10%, reduce the damage of certain “highly likely to down you” attacks by around 20% or so.
-Remove enemy skill affixes like “automatically defeats you” and replace them with “automatically downs you” or just “deals unblockable damage sufficient to down most basic builds”, perhaps reduce certain attacks from “unlimited targets” to “five targets,” allowing them to down half the party while allowing the other half to get them back up. None of these effects would be new, they could all be borrowed from existing attacks, and should be in the GW2 toolkit. Changing them should be as simple as selecting them from a drop-down menu in their toolkit, or at most deleting and retyping a reference to where that move is stored in the existing code. It’s like removing one lego brick and replacing it with another.

Gaile Gray.6029:

At this point, I need to interject. I am familiar with the process of changing to a multi-modality system of game presentation, having written about it long ago, when I was a journalist writing about another company and another game. For that game, too, players said “No big deal.” And they were absolutely wrong. They said, “Just tweak a few stats, lower a few spawns, and voila, you’ve got it!” No, that’s not how it worked.

You have absolutely no idea how things work/are set up in the game; you can ramble on with changelists or “simple ways to do it” but you have no idea if they apply in the slightest. At the end of the day, you’re just pulling guesses out of thin air and for some reason you’re assuming they’re correct.

Astralporing.1957:

That’s only what you think. Because you like raids.

No. Completing more difficult content will always be more impressive- and more difficult- then slogging through easy content for a couple weeks longer.

Were you reading Ohoni’s post, or their strawman representation by other posters? Because it seems the latter.

Have you read his posts? Because that’s exactly what I’m going off of.

Ah, but we have considerably more than zero informations. We, for example, know that one wing takes around 4 months to make, and most of that is creating assets. Yes, those assets that the easy mode would not need to create. Most of the remaining work wouldn’t need to be created from scratch either.

Except we have no idea how things are coded/configured in the raid. Who knows, making their easy mode could easily require recreating the entire thing from scratch.

[/quote]Sure, it wouldn’t take hours, like Ohoni claims, but saying that it would take many months is an even more ridiculous claim.[/quote]

Except, based on the information we have, they’re both completely equally valid numbers. They’re equally ridiculous claims because neither of them are backed up by any real information or facts.

Ohoni.6057:

They didn’t tell you that they were looking into it like Gaile did earlier.

Which means… nothing? What Gaile actually said was:

[/quote]I will ask about this, and if we’re prepared to say something official, one of us will do so.[/quote]

So if they want to share they’re tell us something. Exactly like they always do. Just because they haven’t said anything doesn’t give any information about your made up numbers.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make, you’re just making “I know you are but what am I” sort of arguments that don’t actually make any sense.

The point is, your numbers are completely unfounded and trying to use them in any sort of argument is useless since they have no proof to back them up. However, if you keep insisting that your made up numbers are for some reason valid,

Not to mention the fact that Gaile also said:

But it’s counterproductive to have a discussion head down the path of misinformation and what seems to be a growing error in assumption. With all due respect, unless you’re a developer for GW2 you are not qualified to make a statement about the time needed, difficulty involved, or feasibility of such a feature.

Yet you still continue to guess and make up random numbers, then you start pretending that they’re 100% perfectly correct.

Torolan.5816:

Hypairion.9210:

you won’t have it because you refuse to adapt and put some effort in raid, that’s all. And since it’s Anet decision, i guess they were thinking that legendary armors were a proper reward for challenging pve content, aka raid, and that people who mastered raid would deserve legendary armor. How is it unfair? we play the same game after all. The difference is that some people don’t mind putting effort in raiding, with countless wipes, changing stuff, buying expensive foods etc, while others want to do nothing and have the reward. Who do you think deserve the reward? the lazy one or the worker? I have the answer for you, if you want…

Here you really lost me.
GW2 is a game. Not a exercise, not a job, not a sports club. A game. I said it when the fractal backpiece was introduced for Fractals only, I said it when the backpiece for PvP was announced, I said it for legendary armor:
Gating content behind game modes is plain and simple wrong and bad for the game. It breeds exactly the discussions we are having here right now.

I know that many people think that people are looking up with envy and want on your efforts, but I stand on the firm believe that nobody remembers the name of your toon after he has passed them in Lions arch with your Eternal title and your grinded Astralaria. So the number of people that maybe care for that is in your closest group, aka your raiding team and your guild, and a few people that write you PMs about how that looks on you.

Regarding the question who deserves content X more, I would be with you if this was one of the activities I mentioned above, aka work, sport, exercise. I believe that first and foremost effort and dedication by playing the game should be rewarded in a game, not skill or reflexes and effort for builds which is a non-game activity anyway in my mind. Skills and reflexes should net you more, but a less skilled person should not be forced to go out emptyhanded off anything.

tl:dr Gating is wrong, and nobody cares if you have the Eternal title or Astralaria.

Here’s the big thing, this is extremely important.

You can’t think of an MMO like just another game. You are correct that in general games like Call of Duty, or a board game like monopoly, or a casual game of football once you win that’s it. No one cares if you beat everyone once or got a really good score.

An MMO however does foster some long-term rewards for playing, treating it like every other kind of game out there is going to naturally give you a bad time. Reward structures in all MMOs have to give short-term rewards, and long-term rewards to encourage you to play. To encourage you to improve at a certain area and eventually get the reward you do not see everyone else have. This goes back years of MMO reward structure as back then MMOs needed to keep players around to make money, regardless of how little you think of other players and what they have on their person, there will always be someone else who does care.

In fact, the biggest reason we are having these conversations now rather than years ago is because a certain population this wonderful game attracted is under the presumption that they can treat this game like a normal game of kickball or some trivial activity. It’s not quite that simple for a myriad of reasons. I’ll follow up on this more later after work, but ultimately creating rewards divided into content sections is actually healthier for the game and population than catering all the rewards for everyone’s interests.

They’re really not that difficult. It’s just random each day for which zone that you have to do those tasks.

For example, today I finished W1Z3, destroyed the honeycomb in W1Z1 (slingshot and around 50ish baubles kills the bee), and then broke 10 pieces of furniture in W2Z3. The achievements are really no more difficult in one zone than another. One exception could be the chests but I skip those because they’re annoying to me to get no matter the zone.

Ohoni.6057:

None, there doesn’t need to be any, some exclusivity in a game isnt a bad thing. if everyone can just get it by grinding theres no point.

The point is to have them. If you eventually have them, then point accomplished.

In pve, yes. But in other game mode, it would be logical to have it.

Why should PvE players be left out, but PvP or WvW players get a glide path?

PVE players are not left out. Raids are pve content. It just happens you don’t like this content, that’s all.

Gene Archer.8560:

Speaking as someone who has done World 1 Trib Mode at least 16 times (as I have the collection achievement), I would be okay with this happening. I want people to be in the Super Adventure Box because they enjoy it as much as I do. Not because they feel forced to in order to get access to something they want. I don’t want people to come to resent the glorious box of adventures.

If that means sacrificing my prestige, so be it.

That’s fairly humble of you, but others would disagree with wanting to ‘give up the prestige’. They have a right to ownership when they worked hard for their success.

Nevertheless, going to re-iterate my previous point here:

What it comes down to is that rewards are seen at face-value (appearance) and to what extent they are within your (or anyone else sharing this same view) reach. I see rewards, all rewards, in this game as a carrot on a stick to do that content, however easy, hard or accessible it is, and to some extent it’s appearance. Some rewards gain a kind of merit from this either through time, difficulty, or exclusivity.

Which of these two views on rewards is healthier for an MMO? Would an MMO last long if all future content could have those new rewards offered by something in previous and known content? Would spending time and resources on drafting up an ‘easier version’ or an ‘easier content type’ be worthwhile in keeping veterans interested in that mode around?

Currently their are achievements tied to 4 boss encounters which can be considered “hard mode” (Sabetha, Slothasor, Trio, Matthias). In their best case they add a new mechanic (Slothasor), in their worst they don’t do much of anything (Matthias). Nonetheless, as is, most groups will do these achievements only once, and then never run them again as there is no real incentive to rerun them, making them both difficult to find groups for, and somewhat a waste of developer resources. This waste in resources is especially apparent from the the drastic difficulty drop from Trio being hypothetically tied to balancing for this “hard mode”, a mode people will rarely ever run (though honestly I think don’t fully believe this excuse as evidence points otherwise).

Proposed below are suggestions which will increase the prevalence of “hard mode” being run.

1. Add in repeatable achievements based on “hard mode” achievements:
This can be approached several ways, with the achievement being completed every 1-3 times you kill a specific boss on “hard mode”, or every time you kill the entire set of bosses on “hard mode” for that wing (the latter would need to exclude Spirit Vale, as Sabetha is the only one with a “hard mode”). This repeatable achievement may need to be restricted to a weekly basis to prevent reward farming.

2. Add desirable rewards to these achievements which won’t greatly hurt the economy: The easiest solution would be to give X amount of magnetite shards after the completion of the repeatable achievement. These magnetite shards would not be affected by the cap. This would provide an incentive for raiders to do the hard mode (as they are limited in the ways they can get shards after they cap), with minor affects to the economy. A potentially more economically harming reward would be a “Box of Raider’s Supplies” after killing the set of 3 bosses on “hard mode”, which would be a better long-term reward, but would need to be heavily limited to once a week.

Adding a simple repeatable achievement with proper rewards would go a long way in giving this already implemented difficulty setting more prominence in the current raid setting.

Astralporing.1957:

Fermi.2409:

Astralporing.1957:

Fermi.2409:

Astralporing.1957:

Fermi.2409:

Astralporing.1957:

CasualWanderer.5824:

The player HAS to make effort in order to get cool stuff, kill the baddest bad guys in this bad*ss instance and show it all off.

Why?

Why should you be rewarded for not putting in any effort?

Because it’s not work? I have enough of this in RL already, don’t need to repeat it in a kitten game.

So you shoud be able to just log in and buy anything from an NPC for 1C because it’s a game, not work, and you shouldn’t have to work for anything?

I have no problem putting an effort for something… as long as it’s fun. It’s just some people seem to think that having fun in a game is somehow a crime and getting anywhere should be as painful as possible.

Other people’s definition of fun just differs from yours, clearly.

Clearly. Problem is, those other people seem to think theirs is the only definition.

You don’t need to find raids fun, other people do. Your definition of fun should not be used to endanger a game mode people already enjoy.

I find that it’s more useful to have multiple sets of Ascended armor on different characters rather than several sets on just one. In the current balance of for PvE, the most I’d do with Legendary armor on a class like Guardian or Elementalist is slightly adjust the stats between Berserker and Assassin attributes depending on whether or not I have a Drud in my group. (for Spotter) I can’t change my Scholar Runes out easily, so the set is going to keep fulfilling the same role for direct damage either way.

It might be more useful for a class like Chronomancer to adjust the amount of toughness you have between raids for tanking. There just simply aren’t many opportunities to make full use out of this system though, not without templates and the ability to change our runes easily and cheaply.

cranos.5913:

This big kitten discussion.

It’s not really that big. One person is making up about half the replies in this thread by repeatedly restating their opinion and dismissing anything to the contrary.

And let’s be clear, I’m not asking for Infantile mode here, that’s just the slander others have accused me of. I’m asking for Normal mode, when the only option currently available in raids is Tribulation.

No, your asking for raids where builds and team composition don’t matter at all. No possibility of wiping too, because you’re finding that too stressfull. That’s infantile mode for me…

Nope. From the very start I’ve been asking for less reward. I mean, don’t get me wrong, if they offered identical reward I wouldn’t put up much of a fight, but I get that hard mode should offer more reward and that’s fine. For now I’m at around 1/3 reward for easy mode, but my position has never been the exact same reward.

Yes, you want the armor, that is the exact same reward…

Ohoni.6057:

I disagree with that. I raid with my guild several times à week, and given the choice between actual raid and your infantile raid mode, we’ll still do the hard mode, even if the rewards are the same.

Ok, let’s make it so, problem solved

But, Ohoni, there is no problem in the actual situation
there is a shinny you want, but you are not skilled enough to have. For me, and many players, it’s not a problem at all.

Furthermore, your infantile mode is not a good solution for your reward problem. Again, you want the same rewards as us, but with no effort (spam 1 is not an effort). And your claim about “it would take 3 more times” is quite entertaining. After all, your easy mode is not 3 times easier than normal mode, but much more easier.

If it’s just for teaching mechanisms, and with almost no reward, I will be behind you.

Ohoni.6057:

The divide Ohoni between what we are saying and what you are saying is honestly how rewards are viewed in this game.

I understand that, and I have no problem with you viewing rewards differently than I do, so long as you don’t then attempt to use your views to justify controlling my access to the rewards I’d like to have. I mean, if you want to view your armor as some Mark of Merit, and imagine people fawning over your enormitude, that’s your business, just don’t say “no, you can’t get that reward unless you jump through the hoops I’m comfortable jumping through, because mah enormitude.”

Your desire for me to NOT have something does not have as much value as my desire to have it. They do not cancel out, because yours is about controlling others. You worry about the rewards you get, and your reasons for doing that, I swear I won’t get involved at all, just you don’t worry about the rewards I’m going for, or the way I’d like to access them either.

I think your view of rewards differs massively from the average player.

Let’s look at game modes that do have easy modes. (But, again, for the record, I’m against easy mode raids as a waste of developer resources).

So SAB has an easy mode, normal mode, and hard mode. Green and yellow SAB skins are exclusive to hard mode. The new auras require you to complete the hard mode collections. No way to get them through easy or medium modes.

It’s been a while since I’ve done easy mode SAB. I’m not 100% on whether you’re awarded a bauble bubble at the end of each zone, but I don’t think you do. Thus, blue weapons would be out of reach for easy mode players.

You must play normal and hard mode SAB to get the skins.

Let’s look at fractals. Before HOT, you could not get a fractal weapon until after a certain tier (I think 20). And now, I’m pretty sure you can’t get a golden fractal tier from the lowest fractal levels.

Exclusive rewards in this game is nothing new. Not everything needs multiple paths towards acquisition. If you’ve truly held this view about rewards, then you’ve been suffering for 3 years.

Just look at WoW LFR.
It has disincentivized casual players to progress to higher difficulties. They’ve seen LFR (which is an afk-fest), they’ve seen the story, the end-game, they’ve done it all, so why try harder?
Blizz has even removed good tier gear from LFR, and people still go there, faceroll that, and forget about the raid.
I say there shouldn’t be an easy mode, haven’t played the gw2 raids yet, but as far as i can see they’re much easier than most mythic encounters (and fewer) in WoW’s current raid dungeon.
The player HAS to make effort in order to get cool stuff, kill the baddest bad guys in this bad*ss instance and show it all off.
So plz no, pretty plz

Oh, I don’t give a kitten about Person A or his shiny medal. Person A is irrelevant to me. I do want the armor that I want though.

Oh but you do though! Just to clarify if it wasn’t clear enough….Person A are the people currently doing raids, the shiny medal is the unique rewards from raids (skins and currently legendary armor). You wouldn’t even be on this thread arguing if you didn’t!

Btw calling everyone who aspires to do anything challenging a waste of human tissue doesn’t exactly seems like a very reasoned argument does it?

Why study for an exam and get an A? I could just as easily take 3 easy mode exams and that should give me the same A grade right!

Why be promoted for being good at your job? I should be given a promotion for going on reddit for three times as long as that guy did his job for!

Guy 1 goes to a river and sits for two hours before catching a fish. Guy 2 comes along and wants a fish. Guy 1 tells Guy 2 that it took him 2 hours to catch the fish. Guy 2 says kitten that, I cba with that and goes and demands the river deliver him a fish whilst he goes to watch tv for 2 hours.

Frankly you are just an entitled brat who thinks they deserve everything without actually doing anything.

Ohoni.6057:

And btw, each week with my guild we carry unexp people, and we mostly succeed. So the content is not that hard, assuming you’re willing to put some effort in it. If you don’t want to do it, that’s fine, but then stop asking for the same reward as us.

I do not want to be carried

Yes you do, you just want Anet to do the carrying.

Ohoni.6057:

Person A feels really happy and rewarded for her hard work and shows the medal to her friends down the pub. It just so happens that Person B sees the medal and is overcome by envy. She then goes to the mayor and demands that an easier race be made (lets say 5km) with the same medal as the marathon being given as a reward for completing the easy race 3 times.

This is where the analogy breaks down, Person B would not give a kitten. Person A would just be so full of himself that he would assume that Person B must care about his shiny medal.

You are Person B and you clearly give a kitten, no assumptions need be made.

But I’m not taking ANYTHING from you! You have no justification to complain! It’s like you have a $100 bill, and I say “Can I have a $100 bill too?”
“Mine? No.”
“No, not yours, a new one will be given to me, you can keep yours.”
“Still, no, I like that you don’t have one.”
“Well how about a $20 bill?”
“Nope, I can only be happy if I have this $100 bill and you have nothing.”

I’m sorry, but that is not a reasonable position to hold your ground on

.

I love how you used the specific part of the analogy and left out extremely relevant parts.

Here’s an analogy that describes the situation better:

Analogy:

There is a city with a number of people living there. There is lots to do in the city, lots of places of eat, cinemas, clubs, leisure centres, something for everyone. One day the mayor sets up a city marathon for those people that are very keen for a challenge. In order to attract attention to the marathon and reward the citizens taking part he decides to give a shiny medal to those that complete it. Person A and B both hear this news and tell their friends that they like the medal and decide they want it. Person A goes to the sports shop and buys running shoes and goes to the gym for a month to train in preparation for the marathon. Person B feels like this is too much effort and goes to the cinema with some friends to watch a film and relaxes for the month.

It’s marathon day. Both Person A and B are at the start line ready to go. The whistle blows and they both head off. At the start there seems to be no difference in terms of position between both Person A and Person B. 2 miles into the marathon however Person B discovers that it would take a lot more effort than she’d anticipated and so decides to call it quits. Person A however is really determined to achieve the goal that she set. Person A, after a long and difficult time finishes the marathon. She is greeted by the mayor at the finish line and is given the shiny medal.

Person A feels really happy and rewarded for her hard work and shows the medal to her friends down the pub. It just so happens that Person B sees the medal and is overcome by envy. She then goes to the mayor and demands that an easier race be made (lets say 5km) with the same medal as the marathon being given as a reward for completing the easy race 3 times.

Hypothetical 1 – The mayor caves in to Person B’s demands.

The mayor then arranges a number of easier 5km races and after completing three of them the participants get the same shiny medal as those who completed the marathon. Person B does three of the easier races, gets the medal and goes to the pub to show off the medal. Person A sees the medal and realises that it is exactly the same medal that she got from the marathon. Person A now feels cheated out of her accomplishment and has nothing to prove how much effort it took to complete the marathon. Person A now no longer feels like the medal is worth showing off and puts it in the attic.

This is your wish Ohoni, it ruins the enjoyment of those people who like challenges just because of your seething jealousy.

Hypothetical 2 – The mayor compromises.

The mayor then arranges a number of easier 5km races and after completing one of them the participants get a certificate saying that they did so. Person B does the easier race, gets the certificate and goes to the pub to show off their accomplishment. Person A sees the certificate and congratulates Person B. Person A and B talk about their running experiences and became friends. Person A still feels good about completing the marathon and feels that sense of satisfaction every time she looks at the medal. She puts the medal in a cabinet in the living room of her house. Person B does the same with her certificate and feels proud of her achievement.

This is actually the compromise, not your self-centred proposal. This is what should happen if there is enough interest from people who can’t complete the marathon.

Hypothetical 3 – The mayor refuses entirely.

The mayor tells Person B that there simply hasn’t been enough requests to warrant arranging easier races. Person B remains unhappy and jealous.

This is what should happen if there isn’t enough interest from people who can’t complete the marathon.