Guild Wars 2

RabbitUp.8294:

Your personal story is not parallel to the living world. You spend the whole 10-80 story preparing to fight Zhaitan, when he is already dead.

Proper timeline:

1.We have our personal story concluded with killing Zhaitan. Rytlock is still warrior.
2.Season 1. We start living world, we meet Braham and gang. Rytlock is still warrior.
3.Season 2. Rytlock goes for Sohothin and disappears int the Mists.
4.Personal story 2, Heart of Thorns: Rytlock comes back as Revenant.

With creation of new character, we go through these steps in order 1 to 4. Living World Season 1 is not implemented to be replayable yet, but still this is proper timeline for events. So when i create Revenant, I will kill Zhaitan and talk to Rytlock when he is still a Warrior. My Revenant will even help him when I play Season 2 to deal with ghosts from Ascalon and he will go missing then (to that point he still is warrior and I am already Revenant). He will appear again when my Revenant will start story of Heart of Thorns. Professions have nothing to do with personal/living story. We don’t have separate story for Guardians, Necros or Eles.

MiniEquine.6014:

AikunFelcis.7258:

origin.1496:

Perhaps it’s similar to how Revanants came to GW2 and learned from Rytlock. Maybe, if Braham did become the first Dragonhunter officially, other guardians took the mantle and followed.
Marjory took Belinda’s greatsword, and now Necro’s elite spec is greatsword. These elite specs are story related and I’m guessing the names come from that story.
#onlymyopinionanyway

Rytlock is the first Revenant we know, not the very first one, because we start out personal story when Rylock is still Warrior, we will kill Zhaitan with our Revenants and Rytlock then is still warrior. So it’s not like Rytlock will teach us this profession. This argument is invalid. Personally I don’t like the idea that specializations are named because of story. If so, then gameplay and mechanic of specialization should fit the name and in case of Guardian’s specialization, gameplay and mechanic doesn’t fit the name Dragonhunter.

Well, in that case, then there is already an order or Guardians known as “Dragonhunters” that Braham might decide to follow later on. These elite specs can be unlocked at 80 (I think with a mastery track? I don’t recall), but like how Rytlock wouldn’t be the first Revenant, then Braham wouldn’t be the first Dragonhunter. After all, Zhaitan had been plaguing Tyria for a couple of years now, so it’s not unreasonable to think that these guys could have been around at least since then.

We have Orders like Vigil and there is no profession/specialziation named after them, so I don’t see any reason why to make an exception in this case. BTW, can you link me to wiki to article about Guardian’s Order of Dragonhunters? I’ve never seen any information about it. maybe because such Order doesn’t exist?

MiniEquine.6014:

AikunFelcis.7258:

origin.1496:

I don’t feel like reading through pages of arguments. I read someone’s facebook post about a possible “why” to it being called a Dragonhunter, and figure I’d re-post.

“I believe the Dragon Hunter is going to have a story reference behind it
specifically involving Braham and Eir
Braham will become specialized as a Dragon Hunter after a scenario occurs and he will be taking up Eir’s bow when he does it

the Specifics of the Scenario are not listed because I’d rather people think for themselves plus I don’t want to spoil anything if I happen to be right about what I think is coming

but that being said I think Braham will wield Eirs bow and declare himself a Dragonhunter effectively creating/naming the Guardian specialization…"

Maybe Braham will have a reason to call himself a Dragonhunter, but we won’t.

So those that choose to follow Braham’s path will become Dragonhunters and those that choose not to will not. If you’re a Guardian and don’t feel like being a Dragonhunter, then you don’t have to be. However, if this plays out like the theory states, the only reason Guardians would start picking up the longbows and traps is because of Braham’s influence, just like how Revenants will only start popping up because of Rytlock.

If you’re a Guardian who picks up the longbow and doesn’t feel like “hunting dragons”, then obviously you don’t have to do that either, but ultimately your character would have been inspired by Braham, the Dragonhunter in the first place. It doesn’t seem unreasonable.

I don’t agree with this. Specialization should have name reflecting their abilities, gameplay and mechanic, not because one Norn (possibly) had mommy issues and got new toy from her to play with. Nothing in new specialization says this is Dragonhunter. One elite skill with dragon’s maw animation is not enough to name a spec that way. For now Guardian’s specialziation seems to be a holy warrior shooting light-imbued arrows and setting light-imbued traps ( holy arrows? holy traps?). So there is nothing that fits the spec’s name. There is nothing dragonhuntery in this spec to be honest.

origin.1496:

Perhaps it’s similar to how Revanants came to GW2 and learned from Rytlock. Maybe, if Braham did become the first Dragonhunter officially, other guardians took the mantle and followed.
Marjory took Belinda’s greatsword, and now Necro’s elite spec is greatsword. These elite specs are story related and I’m guessing the names come from that story.
#onlymyopinionanyway

Rytlock is the first Revenant we know, not the very first one, because we start out personal story when Rylock is still Warrior, we will kill Zhaitan with our Revenants and Rytlock then is still warrior. So it’s not like Rytlock will teach us this profession. This argument is invalid. Personally I don’t like the idea that specializations are named because of story. If so, then gameplay and mechanic of specialization should fit the name and in case of Guardian’s specialization, gameplay and mechanic doesn’t fit the name Dragonhunter.

origin.1496:

I don’t feel like reading through pages of arguments. I read someone’s facebook post about a possible “why” to it being called a Dragonhunter, and figure I’d re-post.

“I believe the Dragon Hunter is going to have a story reference behind it
specifically involving Braham and Eir
Braham will become specialized as a Dragon Hunter after a scenario occurs and he will be taking up Eir’s bow when he does it

the Specifics of the Scenario are not listed because I’d rather people think for themselves plus I don’t want to spoil anything if I happen to be right about what I think is coming

but that being said I think Braham will wield Eirs bow and declare himself a Dragonhunter effectively creating/naming the Guardian specialization…"

Maybe Braham will have a reason to call himself a Dragonhunter, but we won’t.

I definitely agree that the name “Dragonhunter” is bad choice. It doesn’t fit at all. I’ll compare it to Chronomancer, to show why I think that Dragonhunter doesn’t fit.

Chronomancer means Time Mage. New skills and mechanics are about time manipulation. Alacrity has an influence on time of skills recharge. Continuum Split & Shift allows to make a “checkpoint” in time which allows them to come back to specific “point in time”. Via quickness and slow it’s like Chronomancer speeds up allies action in time and slows action in time. Shield skill 4 “freeze” enemies in time and grants quickness to allies. Skill 5 grants phantasm with alacrity and they can speed up themselves. Wells are also about time&space manipulation. To sum it up: name “Chronomancer” fits perfectly, because it’s gameplay, new mechanic, concept and name says “I am Chronomancer and I wield powers of time manipulation”.

Comparing this to Guardian’s spec. Does gameplay, mechanic, concept and name together show that this is “Dragonhunter”? Not at all. There is only elite skill with dragon-like animation, new gauntlets and bow. That’s it. Imagine watching trailer of this spec for the first time without name in YT description. Imagine YT description of the video is “New Guardian Specialization!” and that’s it. Imagine watching Devs’ stream showing gameplay of the spec without them revealing name. Would you have a thought that this class is “Dragonhunter”? I don’t think so. New virtues are more suitable for Paragon-like specialization. Longbow skills: we shoot arrows imbued with light + symbol + trap-like 5 skill. Nothing fiting “Dragonhunter” till now. Trap skills: Traps/Symbols imbued with light, really nice animations. Nothing seems like it has something to do with dragons, except elite skill with dragon’s maw animation.

So it seems like that Guardian’s specialization is named after one elite skills, because gameplay and new mechanic don’t define name “Dragonhunter”. What are my thoughts about specialization after seeing gameplay. “I defeat my enemies from the distance. Piercing their chests with holy light (arrows) and slowing them down (traps) is the way how I fight. The final judgement will come unexpectedly. They will burn in holy light! (traps are light-imbued)” These are my thoughts after seeing the gameplay, mechanics, animation and concept art. This description doesn’t fit Dragonhunter at all. In the end this is Guardian’s specialization, so the name of the spec should be tied at least a little to main profession. I will repeat myself, but “Dragonhunter” doesn’t fit at all even in this case.

Please consider changing the name of specialization.

Sentinel
Divine Archer
Divine Hunter
Conqueror

I really like “Sentinel”. Anyway, many suggestions listed here are better than Dragonhunter. We as Guardians will be protecting outpost from Mordrem attacks and we will be able to use Bow to take out enemies from the distance and use traps to slow them down or just to make sure they won’t reach outpost and destroy it. In this perspective I don’t see reason to name this spec “Dragonhunter”. Every character’s goal in the end is to kill/defeat Elder Dragons, right? I haven’t seen any other dragons around to hunt down. Please consider changing the name of this spec to the name that has sense taking into consideration class mechanic, lore and it’s role in upcoming expansion.

At the very beginning I thought that this idea of distribution beta access was very good. Now I see that it’s not so good as it seemed. What I really like about the game is that it doesn’t force you to grind all days like crazy like in other mmos to achieve something. By this portal beta event they introduced true grind which i hate. Instead of having fun this gives frustration. After so many hours in last couple of days I am tired and have enough. Now I consider taking a longer break from the game, because If I kept up forcing myself to grid, sooner or later I would leave and I don’t want this, because I love the game. Sorry devs, but I think this idea wasn’t the best one. Maybe next time consider for example doing event for 24h or 48h with higher drop rate, so people won’t build more and more frustration over time and seeing someone getting portal every 5 minutes in map chat rather than once per hour (or once per a few hours…) would be more motivating and fun, because it would give a feeling that this is achieveable and this wouldn’t feel like a grind.

Request: Lord Faren in a speedo! “Never fear Pale Tree, Lord Faren will save you!”

I’d love to see skritt and quaggan flying on tengu through ethernal alchemy. That would be the perfecr moment to create Shiny Alliance!

My theory about Caith secret is Pale Tree & Caith were aware of Mordremoth existence and that’s why Caith acted rude to Cadeyrn on purpose. He created Nightmare Court, so Sylvari are fighting with each other about the dream – it is artificialy created conflict in order to make Sylvari choose dream or nightmare (Scarlet figured out that there is third option to choose, not only between these two). Dream/Nightmare is a barrier protecting Sylvari from Mordremoth’s influence. Scarlet broke this barrier so Mordremoth was able to take control of her. As I said, Pale Tree knew about this (“Please: go no further. In seeking to comprehend the forces that shape us, you will unleash them. Society cannot withstand that.”). To sum it up: Pale Tree created artificial internal conflict within Sylvari society in order to protect them from external influence – Mordremoth.

Part 2:

Sometimes zones are forgotten by players, so zone could easily go for 100% enemy influence after some time. This should have greater impact of the world.
Ex. Harathi Hinterlands are occupied by enemy (100% centaurs influence) for some time. This should trigger massive invasion of centaurs to Kryta. Players defeat invasion, get rewards and for ex. each player receive e-mai from Logan ‘thx for help, without you we wouldn’t defeat them. It’s perfect time to deal with centaurs once and for all. I send troops to Harathi Hinterlands, I hope you will help us again to defeat Kryta’s foes.’ Or it could be announced differently by NPCs, however, it somehow guides player, what he can do next, what could be his next goal to accomplish.
Also Heralds in every city should shout about some massive events/invasion, so player are aware of the situation what happens currently in other zones.

Of course zone progression should be tied with achievements, as I stated before, unique rewards, maybe some titles, increasing your rank if you represent your guild/order, etc. Each Zone could have some story, shown some lore by this events, etc.

Well I think zones progression is a good way to introduce more and better content and basically it is based on dynamic events, so not so many new thing need to be developed to achieve this. Also once for some times events could be changed. It could be also influenced by living story (see Kesex Hills transformation), forming alliences with NPC which were hostile before to fight back new enemies, etc.

PS: Sorry for bad english.

I support the idea of zone progression. My vision of this:

Each zone have additional bar stating influence of players in each zone. For example let’s day default value is 50% – half of the zone controlled by players, half taken by enemies. Players completing events and defeating enemies makes progress bar goes up to more % to reach 100%. When % reach some gap (ex. 60%, 70%, and so on) this triggers additional events.

Example 60% our influence, 40% enemies – enemies are gathering more in specyfic places in order to increase their numbers and send attack for different camps. Let’s go players and kill enemy where they gather their strenght and prepare for war. Players destroy their supply carts, etc to weaken enemies.
Example 70% our influence, 30% enemies – while we attack enemies on their spot, champions are attacking our villages and destroying our supplies! Go back and defeat them
Example 80% our influence, 20% enemies – Champions are defeated. Different enemy races form one alliance to fight us (ex. Molten Allience), new deadly enemies appear. Other friendly NPCs were kidnapped/forced to join their ranks and we have to fight people were our allies before (ex. quaggans).
Example 90% our influence, 10% enemies – New Alliance is almost defeated. But there is a last hope: powerful shamans summon massive bosses with unique mechanics and really great rewards for defeating them (better than 2 blues and 1 green).
100% influence – zone in players hands. This state is temporary for some time. Players get nice rewards, villagers are grateful for yor help, special NPCs are unlocked with unique receips/consumables/thropies.

I could also give also some examples when players loose fight, but I guess you guys catched the concept already. Ex. when influence of enemies is above 80% there is huge invasion on the whole zone, etc. More influence of enemy – Players have to defend villages, repel enemies, gather supplies, maybe trying some diversion, etc.

Part 2 in post below:

timmyf.1490:

I’d really love events that span multiple zones or impact other events.

For example, you assist the Quaggans in Sparkfly Fen and they help you fight Tequatl the next time he spawns.

This could potentially be tied to Order Faction or Rank (and work as an alternate Hero system) – if you’re ranked high enough in your order, you can start new events to acquire order assistance for a period of time/particular event/particular area.

This is great idea! Helping other minor races/villagers/ basically npc through events in certain zones, could increase temporary ‘reputation’ for yourself/faction etc, or it could be tied to zone progression, so this way you can see that your decisions have impact on the world – I will help Quaggans, so in the time of need we will stood united in the battlefield. I won’t help them – ex. they will be corrupted and we will see additional deadly wave of raging Quaggans against us in a boss fight.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

My number one would be “Zone Progression” / “Order Progression”

Something that gives players a purpose to explore the zones.

• A lot of people miss quests, my main guess why this is the case is: they miss stories. Dynamic Events are cyclical in nature, so those stories have no real end – climax if you want. Time to give your writers something more to do and let them design unique events.
• even the most simple idea could make people exited. Today I leveled in Kessex Hills when I saw a bear walking alongside a skritt. Awesome I thought… until I found out that I can’t interact with that npc at all; it’s just a guild mission boss. Why not spawn such rare characters (dozen of them, but rare spawns) in the open world, give them a loottable and a few interesting dialogue-options or even a small event associated.

Fill the existing maps with tons of things to do. I mean: tons and tons of things. And may these be just little things… the world has to feel more alive.

…and then combine this with progression. The more people find, the more they unlock. And the more they can unlock for others (in the sense of triggering new events).

summary: progression in specific zones via a huge variety of things to do (something for everyone – fighters, explorers, collectors, lore-lovers, treasure hunters,…………

People should have some goals for each of the zones. Not for the world in general (Legendary – mats from everywhere). Zelda reference: the Master Sword is in the Lost Woods, not everywhere in Hyrule.

I totally agree with this and this is ‘number one’ feature I choose.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

@AikonFelcis II:
Those NPCs who give you direction (like Almorra in your example) could rotate orders, so that if feels less like a quest but rather than a guide to direct you to action.

At 5:00 Almorra sends you to Tequatl, he might spawn soon. (yay, no Dragontimer needed). 15min later Almorra sends a few of their troops towards a Metaevent in zone XY. Help the soldiers and get Duty points for each resurrected or buffed Vigil-member / assisted kills.

Give Almorra 40+ different tasks which rotate randomly / as the Meta-events begin.

These are also great ideas. We will see if someone from Anet would like to comment Orders system idea.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

@AikunFelcis:
I like some aspects of your idea, here a few questions:

1.) Are you aware that anyone can join in high-rank events (like the battle in Ebonhawke) once a event is triggered by a high rank member? It’s certainly a good thing, but it must feel weird since you have those higher rank battles and then go back to low rank activities like killing rats in the basement.

2.) You wrote: “other people from your order can help you”. Does this mean that now non-order players can’t join in those events? Confused.

3.) Quests in Vigil Keep. Did you read my post about Anets reasons why they didn’t add quests? It would feel the same to everyone who has joined the order. How would you adress this?

4.) I like the idea of npcs who send you to different regions of the world to complete certain events. Just wanted to emphasize this, I love it. It gives more direction to specific content other than having players find things by themselves all the time. Hearts are too static imho, you do your stuff in the heart-location and that’s it. Events can lead players to new locations. Chains of events.

Quests may feel static, but why not have Quest-npcs who wander around in the world? Find them and they send you to new locations. Once he sent you away a new event related to the quest might trigger and stays active for a limited time at the target location.

1. I am aware that proper mechanic for this should be found. Maybe if you joined higher rank mission to help someone, you get more “Duty Points”, but there still should be some limitation so people won’t get the highest rank in a week, it should be a long term goal.

2.I imagine every people can join event, but only people from the same order get “Duty Points”.

3.I didn’t read all thread, sorry for this. Well, I guess that people start always in the same position – ex/ chosing your race (human: always divinity’s reach, you will follow certain storyline ex. noble and no parents). So still there are finite options to take. So If you are newbie it is quite normal that you get some minor things to do and everyone first start from zero to later become hero in the end. For each rank you can add many events, and noone should be able to trigger same event all day. Adding additional events depending on living world, season, etc is also an idea, or Anet can rotate events sometimes. All events in this game are repetitive, excluding living story and Karka one-time event, so I really don’t see the problem.

4. Thanks. I agree with your ideas.

Now I got another idea: what if order events could trigger public events? I mean, if Members of Vigil are fighting branded creatures for a long time, and, let’s say, there could be progress bar for order progress in certain zone, if the bar is filled, then the public event is triggered (ex. Shatterer is mad that braded creatures loses to Vigil, so he would attack Ebonhawk). Etc. This would be ‘living’ world.

In Order Panel ( like guild panel) you can see your progress, avaiable missions, and also order can sshow you notification about world events like „Tequatls is going rampage! Vigil, our time is now!”. It would encourage players to join world events, and also, it can gives opportunity to add more achievements. Ex. You can get trophy from tequatl and give it to Almorra, so you then get special title that you represented your order fighting the dragons. Later you can see for example Tequatl tooth/scale in her office.

This system can also be influenced by living world – good option for foreshadowing. Example, Vigil discover secret new camp of Aetherblades – go destroy them. Order of Whisperers are spying Atherblades and forcing them to talk about their plans. Priory would like to try to use new magical weapon and discover something about „Do not touch” things. At the end of mission everyone get some info/foreshadowing about future living story, ex. Scarlets plan for new alliance.

Reaching the highest rank should be very diffcult, take some time and it should not be influenced by item shop. Rank of player should be seen by the other people (ex. ranking board or somethig like this) and to be able to unlock the rarest, the best looking skins, maybe crafting material to ascended/legendary items, or event it would give you opportunity to find a better solution to find precursor (scavanger hunt?).

It’ would be good idea to add separate order chat window for players, so it would be easier to gather people together for order missions, help others reaching higher rank, etc.

Well, this is my suggestion, I give many examples how I would see system like this. To sum up benefits:

-more achievements, rewards, unique skins, etc
-sense of progression (ranking system) and gives prestige (hard to get titles, skins, rank itself, etc).
-option to foreshadow living story and maybe see it differently from the order perspective.
-new dynamic events
-new story hidden in events, players can form a bound with NPCs, to feel that they are part of the world, NPCs to react differently depends on your rank, etc.
-way to introduce some story of the areas and races live there and their conflicts.

And one of the most important thing, you can feel as part of community, like in guild. Some players have problem with joining guild and playing with the other people (lack of time, then one day you find out you are kicked or noone is active in guild). This way there is always a group of people waiting for you, sharing the same goals and having fun.

Hello, I’d like to post my suggestion about Orders. I don’t have time to read all topic so I’m sorry if such suggestion was posted before. Also sorry for bad english.

I guess when character joins Orders (I will refere to Vigil later in post, because this is my order on my main character) it should have some impact on the player and the world. My examples:

When someone join order he/she starts with „new joiner” rank. At the beginning, player get mail that he join new recruits in Vigils Keep. Now the story begins.

Player could trigger some events depending on his rank in the order. At the beginning as new joiner, he could help to gather supplies, help fixing old armors and weapons, cleaning Almorras boots, fight Skritts in basement (ex. they try to stole supplies/shinies). For each such event player gets exp, maybe karma and let’s name it „Duty Points”. It wouldn’t be currency, but it would show your progress in your rank. Example to go from Rank 1 to Rank 2 you have to get 50 duty points. To prevent people to reach maximum rank in 1 day, for example first 5 order events in day rewards you with „X” duty points. Other people from your order can help you and they are also rewarded for events and getting duty points.

When you reach higher rank, you get more interesting missions. For example quests in rank 1-5 takes please near Vigil Keep and if rank goes higher, the place when you do missions is expanding (ex. You were cleaning boot, better rank you escort someone from Vigil Keep to Lions Arch, fight back Zhaitan minions in swamps in Gendarran Fields etc). Finally when you reach ex. Rank 10, Almorra send you to Ebonhawk to help Vigil fighting separatists and so on. It is also fine way to introduce some story of area you are in and also you can form a bond with NPCs if you help them and fighting with them for longer time than 1-3 personal story missions.

Higher rank missions can get you better reward (ex. material to craft ascended items).

As I said before, player can trigger some events on the same place talking with npc, or take some item from npc, go to spot, use item (ex. throw purse of money downstairs and skritts go out from their hideout to get some shinies).

The ranking up system gives your benefits, like unlocking achievements, titles, unlock some NPCs with special receips only for your order, so you can craft unique reward. Maybe some special consumables, minis, skins, etc.

Part II below in next post:

Shriketalon.1937:

ColinJohanson.2394:

So a fun question to ask to help direct the conversation a bit: What aspects of your favorite television shows would you think would be cool to see reflected in a game medium?

It’s a quote from a ways back, but it’s the best way to frame my response. I hope you don’t mind.

A good show must find a balance between building lore, establishing characters, indulging in instant gratification, and setting up long term investment. In many ways, a television show is an apt comparison to MMOs. They require an initial hook to get the player interested combined with long term reasons to get committed to regular viewing. In addition, they cater to many different individual’s personal tastes; viewers will get attached to certain characters, become invested in the plot, or simply enjoy the wit and banter to bring them back again and again. At the moment, however, the Living Story feels like a poor spinoff due to the overemphasis on the Saga of Scarlet. In order to achieve a solid viewing audience, the Living Story needs to find balance.

I have a thread over yonder where I go into more details, but here is a simple example of a Living Story arrangement designed to appeal to a wide audience. The idea is to reserve long term campaigns that take months of content for the most important things going on in Tyria (which are dragons, not redheaded Sylvari reverse engineering bloodstones). These fit into the January-to-May block very easily, since there are no holidays during that time frame. Meanwhile, the rest of the year is devoted to creature features, lore delves, one shot stories, and the introduction of new races in order to indulge a diverse audience. The combination of hardcore campaigns and whimsical/wonderful oneshots should satisfy the audience and keep them entertained for years to come.

If it is not to presumptuous, here is a hypothetical TV Guide To Tyria to demonstrate what the Living Story could be.

THIS! This TV Guide is so awesome, I’d love to see that, great ideas!