Guild Wars 2

For me, the concern is not whether GW2 is “supposed to be about” dragons (how do you even quantify that?) but that if we go too long without any movement on the Elder Dragon plotline, the story and tone of the game become more and more contradictory.

A major aspect of the personal story is the PC coming to realize that the Elder Dragons pose a credible threat to all of Tyria, and that it isn’t going to be enough to focus on isolated local problems and defending only one’s own home anymore – there’s a larger danger facing all races that we need to fight together.

Over the course of the personal story, people all over Tyria pour massive amounts of resources into fighting Zhaitan. Our character loses friends, but realizes they sacrificed their lives for the greater good. The justification for the outpouring of all this blood and treasure is that the Elder Dragons won’t simply be content to stay where they are and only bother the people who get too close, but will spread their destruction into all of Tyria if they aren’t defeated.

The longer the continuation of that plot goes unaddressed, the more the personal story seems kind of pointless. If every arc for months starts focusing on localized problems, it doesn’t much credit the PC’s decision to take a wider view. If the other Elder Dragons are in fact content to sit back and only bother the folks who wander into their own backyards, it really calls into question the decision to confront Zhaitan head on – was it even necessary? Why push on past Claw Island and waste all those lives, if the Elder Dragons aren’t actually a direct threat after all?

It’s a problem of how the story is set up: the writers can’t have it both ways. The Elder Dragons can’t simultaneously be an urgent threat when the writers want to focus on them, and a lesser concern when the writers want to do something different. If they didn’t want to do a dragon-themed MMO, that’s cool… but the story would have needed to be set up a lot differently if they didn’t want us to latch onto that as a primary objective.

Please note, I’m not necessarily objecting to the content of Frost & Flame, whatever that might be. My point is more general than that. Not everything has to revolve around the dragons, but the longer ANet leaves that plot hanging with no particular negative consequences for inaction on the matter, the less credible it becomes that we needed to put in all that effort in the first place.

The bottom line is: This just isn’t that type of game.

If that’s your preferred playstyle, there are other games on the market that will appeal to you.

There’s nothing wrong with that preference. At the same time, though, not every game can cater to every player’s preference. No game can please every single person, and developers have to be allowed to take a game in the direction they want to rather than trying to appeal to every possible taste.

GW2 is a heroic storyline. Having the PC be the villain wouldn’t fit in with the world that ANet is trying to create. It’s not about the lore, but it is about the basics of how the game is structured.

I really, really hope that at some point ANet makes this note readable. It doesn’t seem like it would take that much work, and it would mean a lot to those of us who miss Forgal.

As it is, it’s such a sad tease!

They may be extinct, but they also seem to at least be sufficiently common knowledge that the average person might make reference to them.

I say this because of the Seraph nickname for centaurs, and because one of the Halloween quests added this year specifically jokes about the fact that your character should know what a pony looks like (it makes sense in context.)

I’m really excited about this! It looks great!

One thing I wasn’t quite clear on was whether to interpret the no dragons thing as “You will not confront and defeat another Elder Dragon in this plot arc” or “This is completely unrelated to the dragons.” Those would be two very different things.

InfamousBrad.5879:

The MMO I came here from wanted to do that, but their art creation and editing tools were just way too labor-intensive. If Anet beats that curse, if they don’t just create new zones but change the existing live zones as the story moves forward, they will have my undying gratitude.

I’m wondering if we came here from the same game, because I had the same thought. It would be really neat if our actions did indeed change the game world permanently.

I usually get 1-2 per day depending how much time I spend playing. The majority of them are from harvesting plants rather than dropped from enemies.

Mad King Thorn had a pony, and Seraphs refer to the centaurs as ponies – just as further evidence they are something that exists in Tyria.

Nope, once you get the Order banner, that’s it. The black banner is what Vigil characters are supposed to have.

I miss Forgal so much. I would gladly trade Trahearne to have him back.

frans.8092:

Humans taking their land 1200 years ago was no valid excuse for the genocide the Charr committed 250 years ago.

Absolutely! Nor is the genocide that the Charr committed 250 years ago a valid excuse for wiping out the current generation of Charr. This is very true, and goes both ways.

That’s why in my opinion the treaty is the only possible solution, even if it doesn’t leave either side with warm fuzzy feelings.

Pifil.5193:

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

I wish they’d talked more specifically about their story plans in the forthcoming updates.

Was anything said about this? I missed the stream and only the first part seems to be up at the moment.

Yeah, they did in the second part, but this is all it was:

Q: Dynamic system in open worlds – how will it evolve – make it more understandable, more rewards

• Changes to Orr at end of month – adding some new effects, environment zones, rewards
• Continue building lore/story – between content patches we will add in new events, new guild stuff.

http://dulfy.net/2013/01/17/gw2-dev-livestream-jan-17-transcript/

I like the sound of more story and lore, but I can’t figure out if they’re actually planning to do something meaningful with the plot or if they really just mean adding a few DEs.

I wish I had the ability to have my main’s home city be Lion’s Arch instead of Divinity’s Reach, because she’d rather live in a more multiracial city rather than with just humans.

While not every combination would make sense, it would be nice to have a few choices.

Blueshield.6291:

That’s an inaccurate parallel. Here’s why…

Indeed, I agree. The American revolutionaries weren’t trying to eliminate the British. Prior to the revolution they were in fact British citizens themselves, and they were simply trying to secure political change, not to remove the whole British ethnicity from American shores. The conflict was over ideology, and all a British citizen would have to do to join the other side would be switch political/social beliefs.

The Separatists don’t just object to the politics of the Charr; they object to the Charr having a presence in Ascalon at all. To secure their goals, all the Charr have to be either dead or exiled from what has now been their claimed homeland for hundreds of years, and become refugees. That doesn’t leave any negotiating room, because no matter what an individual Charr believes or does, he or she will always be a Charr.

A revolution and a genocide are not the same thing. One can morph into the other going either direction, but I think it’s dangerous to just flat out equate them.

It’s not that humans don’t have a valid claim on Ascalon, or that anger over what the Charr have done is unjustified. I don’t think very many people who experienced the Searing would claim that the Separatists are just idiots whose grudge is completely unfounded.

What I’m saying is just that indiscriminate violence against the Charr in retaliation is not a morally justified response.

I would be surprised if they went back and added more. Since that storyline step already has multiple options, I would be surprised if ANet considered it good use of resources to “fix” what I doubt they see as broken in the first place.

I’ve never seen that DE, but I’ve heard about it from multiple people. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong place?

It drives me crazy not to be able see that scroll. My Ranger really wants to read the note he left.

I wish they’d talked more specifically about their story plans in the forthcoming updates.

Andrax.4576:

I doupt it, Canthan new year was always held in Cantha, never in Tyria.
It might happen if Cantha is ever added to GW2

There’s a significantly higher Canthan population in Tyria (the continent, that is,) than there used to be, though.

I would think that the Canthan areas of Divinity’s Reach would be more likely to celebrate than back in the GW1 era when there had been only a handful of immigrants and they were pretty scattered.

Blackwolfe.5649:

Considering zhaitan gets his corpses, not only from orr but from other places as well.. what if you met someone you once knew? Would it feel good striking them down?

I imagine it feels horrible.

I would imagine it feels worse, though, to know that your loved one is trapped as a rotting minion to a hostile force, probably suffering greatly in the process, and without even the benefit of a natural death to relieve their pain.

There’s no other way to free them. It’s not meant to be a good, nice, happy thing. It’s actually pretty horrific. Our characters have to be strong enough to do what is necessary, though, and not let people suffer needlessly because ending it is difficult on our feelings.

I think both are necessary, neither one alone will provide sufficient longevity.

Also, I’m pretty sure it’s not homes you’re knocking on the doors of to find the Separatists. If you actually look at the rooms they’re in, it’s more like a meeting place or public area than where somebody would live.

Leablo.2651:

That portrayal is part of his point. This is how all dissidents are portrayed, until they win. Then they become revolutionaries/freedom fighters/minutemen instead of rebels/terrorists/guerrillas.

You’re talking about propaganda and public image, though… whereas in GW2 your character is viewing the group’s actions firsthand. You aren’t just reading in the newspaper that the Separatists tried to blow up a Charr village – you’re actually standing right there while they plant the bomb and listening to them gloat about it.

GW2 isn’t “portraying” some external group; since the groups are fictional, what we see in the game is their objective reality, because your character is actually there in person witnessing events as they unfold.

“Will be banned” and “technically violates the rules so you could eventually be asked to change the name” are very different things.

A name that breaks the rules may never be noticed by the powers that be, or one day your number may be up. It’s just one of those luck of the draw things.

dybryd.1358:

You also murder Inquest Recruiters as a lowbie asura…

To be fair, this is another situation where the other party turns hostile first and you aren’t left with a choice besides fighting or running if you choose to interact with them at all.

The sequence of events is actually that the PC confronts them in a forceful tone but without violence, then gets attacked.

Also, this yet another heart you can complete without bothering with the Recruiters at all, since there are several other objectives.

I would be very surprised if that name isn’t already taken.

From my own standpoint, the answer is yes (for the most part.) The action isn’t particularly twitchy, but that’s probably best for an MMO.

I think there’s room for improvement as they continue to fine-tune the game over time, but I’m happy with how things are for now.

Now, with all this said, I remapped almost all of the controls to make them more intuitive for myself. Before I did that, I probably would have said no. Fortunately the game allows for that sort of personalization.

Dudeface.8102:

There is a major exception to this fun however, and it happened when facing one of the main human enemies, called separatists. The separatists are a rowdy bunch generally opposed to peace and the human monarchy. The separatists constantly hatch plans to foil the human government and subvert the established authority.

I think you’re misunderstanding who the Separatists are – which is an understandable mistake because their name is rather misleading. It’s not simply a difference of political opinion; that would be Separatist sympathizers (whom you merely talk to,) not the Separatists themselves.

The Separatists are essentially a militia who act outside of government authority to commit acts of terrorism, murder, and sabotage in an attempt to prevent the end of a war that has claimed countless lives on both sides for centuries. Being “separate” by their standards means driving all the Charr off the land by the use of violent force.

They’re opposed to the human government only to the extent that Queen Jennah is trying to end the war; as far as I know they have no other major beef with the monarchy aside from not accepting the treaty or land-sharing arrangements.

We aren’t talking about ordinary nonviolent political anarchists here – we’re talking about an armed, aggressive group with a specific goal that would harm both species.

Also, regarding the “dragging them out of their homes” thing – try just knocking on the door and standing there. That’s what I did. They will become hostile and will attack you first.

Forgal was my favourite NPC. I liked his gruff but fatherly manner.

I still really miss him.

The Nightmare Court is a group of people, not a place. You’ll find them scattered around various parts of the zone.

Dark Adonis.5096:

what would be so wrong with an “adult” server? if your offended dont join it.

A game development team has only a finite amount of resources. (Staff, money, etc.) Allocating resources to a certain project means that those resources are not available for other development tasks.

I’m not “offended” by the idea of an adult server with nude character models, but I would consider it a waste of resources that could otherwise be devoted to working on game developments that would have broader appeal to the playerbase as a whole.

Karka, with a large amount of butter sauce.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Political correctness is slowly eroding the constructional freedoms of this country. When people have overly accommodate feelings of others, it limits their own freedoms. The constitution is meant to protect against controversial speech.

It would only be undermining ANet’s artistic freedom if they wanted to include nudity but were forced to remove it because of some sort of external pressure.

There’s no indication that ANet wanted to include nudity in their game and were thwarted – in fact, I would imagine that for many reasons varying from appealing to a wide audience to the tone they’ve already set, it’s something they would never have even considered doing.

I find it strange to talk about this as a freedom issue in a context where it’s fairly clearly something the developers didn’t actually want to do. Don’t they also have the freedom not to include nudity if it doesn’t fit in with their game design?

I think it’s just worded weirdly.

The way I would read it is that refugees came to Tyria fifty years ago, and then some unspecified amount of time later Queen Jennah ordered the sealing. I think it just needed more of a transition than was written there, when it switches from past to more-or-less present. (Notice the switch to “is”/present tense.)

ThiBash.5634:

The main thing that the ‘pro-nudity’ posters have failed to adress is what it would ADD to the game.

Because it will take up artist time to make anything decent, but it wouldn’t add to the gameplay at all.

This. There’s nothing wrong with nudity in general terms… but that doesn’t mean that every mass market product needs to include it or would benefit from providing nude options.

For GW2, the work it would take the developers (from modeling the nude forms to implementing age verification) just doesn’t match the benefits of getting to look at a naked character when that character’s nakedness serves no other purpose in the game.

I have no problem with nudity being including in games or other media if there’s valid context for it and the inclusion makes some sort of sense. In GW2, though, there would be no context for it at all. And that’s the problem. It doesn’t mean the naked form is a bad, dirty, disgusting thing, which it isn’t – it just means it would be a waste of resources to shoehorn in a nude option that’s completely out of place in a game that’s not designed for it.

I think it takes a certain amount of maturity to recognize that adding nudity to a media product does not automatically make it better.

defrule.7236:

Run few steps… Pull

A few steps again… Pull

And another few steps… Pull

Risen spawning on a uniform grid, just like any other MMO.

At risk of stating the obvious, pulling enemies toward you and fighting them in a small space is… um… not an ideal combat strategy for the non-melee classes.

No, it’s not against the rules to get money from a friend as a gift.

What people mean by “getting gold through the mail” is buying it with real world cash from unauthorized sellers or websites. That’s against the rules, but sending gold as a present without getting monetary payment for it is not.

Shanna.4762:

I wouldn’t say it’s come to a halt, but there’s a lack of new information about the game going forward so far, the holiday events were nice and all, and the new content they have added has been cool, but it’s definitely time to ramp it up now and start talking about the future because that’s what keeps players interested, looking forward at what’s to come.

I would agree with this.

I don’t see it as so much a halt as a holding pattern.

I’m still playing the game regularly, and having fun – going through the personal story on alts, working on world completion with my main, crafting, etc. – so the game certainly hasn’t stopped in its tracks for me.

On the other hand, I do think we’ve reached a point where the newness is wearing off, and GW2 needs to establish and communicate a direction for the future, so we as players can start thinking about and looking forward to what lies ahead.

I hope and suspect that within the next few weeks, that direction will be made a lot more clear.

Mechrophilia.6987:

I never played GW1, but this feature sounds really REALLY fantastic. I would love that in GW2.

The problem is that GW1 did all explorable areas as instances (as GW2 does for story missions) that were unique to the player, so one player clearing the area didn’t affect anyone else.

I don’t see how it would be possible to do the same thing in GW2, because of fundamental differences in the game architecture.

That’s not to say the spawns can’t be adjusted in other ways, of course.

Kalas.6743:

I also believe that she could have held up against the undead just as much as the other 2 could have. She was powerful and would have survived until the dragon fought her or massive amounts of undead attacked.

I think so too. From what I experienced with my Priory character, Sieran doesn’t have a huge damage output, but she has pretty good survivability. Since she wouldn’t actually need to make a lot of kills – she would just need to stay upright long enough to provide a reasonable distraction – I think it would be within her capabilities to succeed at her part of the mission.

Zeefa.3915:

Ok there are exceptions, there always is, but it still stands that MOST (hence not all) species would not attempt such things. And granted dogs will pretty much hump anything. Guess I stand somewhat corrected lol.
I will still say it is more unusual than common though.

I don’t think that we can really compare it to Earth species, though, because Tyria has five species that are equally sentient, have more or less equally evolved societies, and routinely interact with each other on a cooperative basis – whereas in the real world there isn’t another species equivalent to humans.

There’s nothing else that’s as similar to the human race in the real world as the fantasy Tyrian races are to each other, so I don’t think we really have a point of comparison from our own world.

Twill.6217:

btw, i’m female. could it be that all this hate is just male testosterone hitting the brains for they can’t stomach seeing what they perceive to be a “inferior” male in a leading role? is this all just male ego speaking? that’s my theory…

I’m a female too, and I find Trahearne’s role in the story very grating.

I don’t think personal taste should always be assumed to be related to gender.

Zelanard.5806:

…but right now, im standing as a human, and have to decide weather i want the vigil to go save a town, or the order of wispers to go gather information! gee seriously who swallowed their pacifier there? what idiot would not tell the order of wispers to go gather information and the vigil to go save the town… its not like they intend to work togeather anyway…

Yeah, I found that moment extremely nonsensical, especially since not only did it disregard the possibility of the Orders going separate ways, but it also disregarded the fact that defending the village would generally be a job for the Seraph rather than an external group in the first place.

So to me, the most logical course of action would have been to send in some extra Seraph reinforcements to hold the town regardless of which mission the PC chose to undertake… but it was like the writers temporarily forgot that Kryta isn’t entirely a lawless wasteland.

The choice as presented was that the town would fall if the PC didn’t personally go hold it, but that doesn’t make sense. Since the PC is having to travel all the way from the city, there’s no clear reason that a Seraph unit couldn’t get there in time but the PC could.

I just imagined that my character alerted the Seraphs to the threat before going to gather information.

I think some story branches do a better job with this than others.

When I did the Asura branch, it was clear that the overall plan was to gain the help/trust of one of the Orders, and the immediate mission goal was secondary. So when I was playing my Asura character, it made sense to pick based on the Order you wanted to join during the final mission rather than focusing on the plans at hand.

The first time I played through with a human (and again as a Norn,) it seemed completely arbitrary that choosing an Order was tied to how I wanted to approach this particular mission.

It’s a good mechanic that you get to try out the different Orders before you pick one, but I also think that why choosing an Order permanently is tied to the last choice is better explained in some storylines than in others.

Pasha.2367:

Think of it this way… The Dream is like a religious cult that has brainwashed the saplings born to the Pale Tree. A religious cult is often viewed as harmful by others even when the members seem happy and may have chosen to be a part of it.

That’s the whole point, though – how exactly is it like a cult?

The Sylvari still have complete personal autonomy, freedom of individual decision making, ability to interpret Ventari’s teachings (should they accept them at all) any way they see fit, and – based on the existence of the Soundless – the ability to leave entirely if they so choose.

Also, I think you’re misunderstanding the Nightmare Court’s goals. They don’t want to get rid of the Dream, they want to corrupt it. They’re trying to turn it into a Nightmare, but they still want it to exist. So I don’t really see your “rescue” angle, even if you’re assuming they’ve changed for the worse in the meantime.

You can call any belief system a “cult,” but in this case I don’t see any actual basis for the accusation from the Nightmare side; even if the Soundless could possibly make the argument that the existence of the Dream is inherently harmful, the Nightmare don’t intend to get rid of the Dream or the Pale Tree, they just want to corrupt them for their own purposes.

I just don’t see any way to twist this to make the Nightmare side the freedom-loving heroes who went astray through no fault of their own, when their whole purpose has been to reduce the autonomy and decision-making ability of their fellow Sylvari.

piitb.7635:

My guess is they are going to revamp the northern shiverpeak zones.

I think this would make a lot of sense from a plotline perspective, because the personal story strongly implied that Jormag would be the next Elder Dragon to be confronted. It would make sense to direct the action toward the Shiverpeaks so they could naturally transition to a Jormag-focused story when the time came.

Rhinzual.7861:

Which of the character creation choices lead to that mission?

When Trahearne gives you a choice about how to deal with the Eye at the end of the Temple of the Forgotten God mission, you choose to confront the Eye head-on.

I don’t think any other character choices affect it besides that one, since everyone does Temple of the Forgotten God.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Close_the_Eye

Rhinzual.7861:

I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if Zhaitan was able to corrupt the Sylvari, but poisoning their mind as The Nightmare since he can’t turn them into straight up Risen. The body is uncorruptible, but the mind sure can be, plus the first big boss in the tutorial is a Dragon corrupting the Dream/Land.

Zhaitan definitely can corrupt Sylvari minds – we see this in the personal story mission Close the Eye, where we meet a Sylvari this has happened to. She didn’t turn to Nightmare, though; she just went crazy and raved about Zhaitan.

1.) Are there any plans to have the choices we made in our personal stories (particularly the choice of Orders, but potentially other things as well) affect how our characters’ stories continue in future expansions?

2.) Have the writers had any changes in thinking in regards to telling the personal story in response to player feedback?

Pasha.2367:

The problem with the Nightmare Court is that however good their initial intention, i.e. freeing the Pale Tree from Ventari’s tablet…

I wouldn’t see that as a good intention, because they aren’t giving other Sylvari the same choice they insist on having for themselves.

The Sylvari personal story makes clear that 1.) Sylvari can and do choose not to follow Ventari’s teachings, and 2.) They don’t always agree on the interpretation of those teachings even if they basically agree that they should be followed. For example, in the “All things have a right to grow” storyline, the twins have a disagreement where they throw tablet quotations at each other to support completely opposing plans of action, and neither is portrayed as being unreasonable or deluded.

The Ventari Tablet provides a mental framework for life, but it doesn’t compel any specific action in any particular situation. The Sylvari still have to choose for themselves what to do and how to live.

The Nightmare Court may be able to make a good case for refusing to follow Ventari themselves, but I think one would be hard-pressed to defend their intention of forcing their will on others. I don’t see how they can call their plan making the Sylvari “free” when in fact they are taking away the opposing choice.

Brett.4305:

It seem that some of those who dislike Trahearne don’t like him telling them what to
do. If I were the Pact Commander, I wouldn’t be out crawling dungeons and such.
The story works, in my opinion.

Except that he does tag along on many of your missions!

The most blatant example of this is at the start of the Battle of Fort Trinity mission. Trahearne delegates you to check on the logging camp – and this makes perfect sense. That’s exactly the sort of thing a second-in-command should be handling. Except… Trahearne then goes with you. Like he doesn’t trust you to handle it without his direct supervision, or like he has nothing better to do than follow you around while you work.

I actually think one of the main things that feels contrived about this is that the writers tried to have it both ways. Trahearne is the leader and the fellow adventurer, so it seems like there’s not much of a unique role for the PC.

If Trahearne actually did stand back and let you get on with the missions he asked you to undertake, I wouldn’t mind him half as much.

Trahearne is “the everyday man” who saves the day. This notion should be inspiring to most.

How is he an “everyday man”? He had a vision from the source and essentially deity of his race telling him he is the chosen one and giving him a magical sword with which to accomplish his destiny.

That seems sort of the opposite of “everyday.”

Sounds good to me. I like the sound of new stories and incentives to visit the territory we already have.