Guild Wars 2

caveman.5840:

nosleepdemon.1368:

The trick is to cancel it in most cases I think. It’s far from a useless skill. The shield toss could be a little faster though.

I have been doing this but 25 seconds is not really a short cool down for something u are just going to cancel after a second of using it

Shield 5 is one of the highest energy costing skills, 20 energy, and has the single longest cooldown of any weapon skill for revenant, 25 seconds. Canceling it can save you, yes, but for something that expensive, you shouldn’t have to cancel it when what you get from it is so lackluster.

Revenant hammer better not be touched with anything less than a rework to a viable weapon in any situation other than making zerglings salty.

CoR is a broken, and quite honestly stupid, skill to have on such a low cd, and it makes little sense to me that the single highest damage weapon per skill that revenant has would be tied to the defensive legend, Jalis.

Rework it to be a viable ranged weapon for something other than bombing from max range with a bunch of stacked traits, please.

Not having a red colored legend is a bit odd, but I don’t mind the legends having distinctive colors tied to them. Being able to turn off the arm glow would be a nice option.

Vena.4276:

Justine.6351:

What I mean is people don’t use shield so it doesn’t matter how you change shield 4 so long as shield 5 is bad.

there’s a reason why shield is meta.

There’s also a reason why it’s despised by a lot of revenant players, multiple really. It being the meta choice doesn’t matter when you get slapped with every unblockable there is because you can’t move. I dropped it and it’s much easier to work without in most situations for PvP.

I thoroughly enjoy playing with Ventari as well. It took some time to get used to and I hated it at first, but it’s certainly unique in the function.

I simply want revenant to be be able to provide something completely unique to a group that would warrant its place in something like a raid meta. I know you can still take a rev, like condi, and still do just fine, but the hyper elite attitude of the PUG raid meta, at least that I’ve seen, won’t take anything but meta stuff despite most not being able to play them properly.

Perhaps if Shiro would stop being such a selfish legend, or be reworked to a state that would fit his role as the intended power dps legend we’d find a bit more wiggle room.

Just my thoughts.

While I’ve been having a lot of fun with Ventari in WvW and PvE on some of the bosses that large groups seem to be struggling to stay alive with, like Ignus and Aestus, I hate that the entire concept the legend stands upon is with the tablet. Having ranged healing is great, and I’ve gotten some ridiculous numbers from a fully speced healing build, I think having the option to abandon the tablet and gain access to other forms of support would be a great addition and offer some variance the class needs.

I believe people have mentioned the idea before, but what if while the tablet was stowed, you gain access to other skill that aren’t bound to it that do not related to healing and cleansing? Such as damage buffs like Grace of the Land, not exactly the same but similar in that it’s a unique form of support that only revenant can offer.

I know the class has dire needs elsewhere, some nerf reversions and some outright reworks if it’s going to live up to its potential, but if it had something unique to offer to the table that won’t be nerfed into the ground, then maybe it could be a viable choice in the competition of the current meta.

Jade Winds didn’t have a 5 sec CD at first.

They’ll just nerf Staff 5 and Impossible Odds, since, iirc, it’s the only shiro skill that hasn’t been nerfed yet.

DemonSeed.3528:

Anet, don’t change it. Let those serious about wvw commit themselves. It’s not about the shinies anyway. Let’s not make it just about those things. Lowering it won’t change anything if they are going to leave after getting it. Leave it as is.

Funny how you say it’s not about the shines while near everyone who played wvw for years is whining about that exact thing.

Turk.5460:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Chaba.5410:

CutesySylveon.8290:

There’s no way a PvE player can get raid armor faster than anyone else if they all put in the same effort. An example would be getting an extra Legendary Insight for each boss kill, or 2 or 3 etc.

Bad example because “same effort” doesn’t exist.

The amount of Legendary Insights you can gain per week is limited 13 (for the first months of raids it was only 3!). Not all PvE players can gain all 13 per week. The reason for this has to do with their availability, access to a team and gear, knowledge, and experience of every single boss of every wing. New players to raids are not going to be gaining all LIs every week.

The amount of WvW claim tickets you can gain per week is limited to 175. Not all WvW players can gain all 175 per week. Again the reasons for this have to do with availability, access to a team and gear, knowledge, and experience.

My point is that new raiders are not restricted by the fact that they are new and veteran raiders are not given any specific advantage because they’ve been doing it longer when speaking of the rates of progress each have to attain the goal.

The initial three LI limit was because there were only 3 bosses to get them from when raids first came out.

Wether or not someone has the access to all available means to get something like LI’s is irrelevant because it’s determined player by player based on thier lives, time etc. The point is that two people under the same circumstances, a new player and an old player, will achieve the raid rewards at the same rate if they both fulfill the same criteria together. In WvW, however, a vet can do the exact same thing as a newbie, but progress much faster to the same rewards simply by being a vet.

I think the people who have stuck to wvw over the years should be rewarded for it, but alienating the newbies and making things more difficult for aspiring wvw players is not the way to go.

Parallel to your logic, veteran WvW players should have been given a LARGE amount of claim tickets from the start of this new WvW update. For free, obviously, since the same rewards weren’t given throughout the few years prior.

This wouldn’t be much different than how it is now ….would it?

A discussion on how to approach vet players and rewards they didn’t have is something I have no opinion on.

I’m simply concerned about the rates of progression, and don’t think that past troubles, ie: middling rewards, should be part of that discussion.

“We had it bad while you got the good stuff! Now you get to feel our pain while we laugh! How’s it feel?”

Not saying this is you, but this is how some people sound.

Chaba.5410:

CutesySylveon.8290:

There’s no way a PvE player can get raid armor faster than anyone else if they all put in the same effort. An example would be getting an extra Legendary Insight for each boss kill, or 2 or 3 etc.

Bad example because “same effort” doesn’t exist.

The amount of Legendary Insights you can gain per week is limited 13 (for the first months of raids it was only 3!). Not all PvE players can gain all 13 per week. The reason for this has to do with their availability, access to a team and gear, knowledge, and experience of every single boss of every wing. New players to raids are not going to be gaining all LIs every week.

The amount of WvW claim tickets you can gain per week is limited to 175. Not all WvW players can gain all 175 per week. Again the reasons for this have to do with availability, access to a team and gear, knowledge, and experience.

My point is that new raiders are not restricted by the fact that they are new and veteran raiders are not given any specific advantage because they’ve been doing it longer when speaking of the rates of progress each have to attain the goal.

The initial three LI limit was because there were only 3 bosses to get them from when raids first came out.

Wether or not someone has the access to all available means to get something like LI’s is irrelevant because it’s determined player by player based on thier lives, time etc. The point is that two people under the same circumstances, a new player and an old player, will achieve the raid rewards at the same rate if they both fulfill the same criteria together. In WvW, however, a vet can do the exact same thing as a newbie, but progress much faster to the same rewards simply by being a vet.

I think the people who have stuck to wvw over the years should be rewarded for it, but alienating the newbies and making things more difficult for aspiring wvw players is not the way to go.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Feanor.2358:

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

How, exactly, can anyone prevent you from following the commander/zerg with just about any class or build? So what if you’re not in the squad? WvW is actually the one game mode where class discrimination matters the least. Ask just about any revenant who wants to dps in a raid, for instance.

Um. Being in squad actually matters a lot. Its the immersive experience, not alienating and alone. If I want to be alone, Ill go pve.

If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.

A cmdr can block u from squad, even if its not full, for being deaf (need TS), for being a ranger, engi, etc., for not being willing to scout endlessly days on end, for dying too often (often unavoidable if ur helping others by rezzing), or any old thing they want (they just don’t like u).

Class discrimination in wvw is very real and actually matters a lot. And it shouldn’t be allowed. All who are willing/trying (not afk) should be able to play in a squad and reap the benefits. Stop endorsing exclusionary practices – we paid our good real life money as well (esp when we’ve popped boosters!).

If you want immersion, then go Rp. If you’re going to be a part of a team effort, then you can’t expect it to be all about you and how you want things.

When I roam, then it’s about me because no one is relying on me, but if I’m zerging, then I have to pull my weight in whatever role that may be for the team.

A good commander will set up thier squad to best suit thier purposes, and if you don’t contribute, then who are you to demand a place on a team you don’t consider beyond yourself?

Stop being selfish.

Blodeuyn.2751:

Fifth.8169:

Blodeuyn.2751:

It’s not discrimination. It is rewarding those who’ve played wvw for years. Why should new players, who might leave wvw altogether when they have their rewards, get the same amount of pips as those loyal to the game mode?

I welcome everyone new to wvw, and hope you find it fun, but you have to earn your ranks and rewards like the rest of us. Wvw has been neglected for ages, so it is past time for those of us playing this game mode to get something from it.

Please remember, someone else’s rank doesn’t take away from your fun and rewards. Stick with wvw and you’ll get there soon enough yourself!

Your post is the very essence of discrimination. You played WVW those years ago for what is was back then and you gained numerous hours of game-play and enjoyment. Giving you EXTRA rewards literally every 5 minute tick is too much. Rewarding extra for the content you enjoyed in the past is wrong. You have already had a head start on the achievement points and so giving you permanent boost in your pips is simply outlandish. .

Your logic is seriously flawed. Let me help: you didn’t invest in the wvw game mode and now you want instant gratification. Since you cant get that, no one should have it.

I’m going to pop into PVE now, I get insta raid armor, right? Insta map completion? Oh, I don’t? Well darn, guess I will have to put in some effort! The horror! Call the ACLU!

Edit: you could have had 2 ranks in the time it took you to complain here. If you’re on EBay msg me and we can get you ranks.

Your logic is just as flawed.

People are talking about the process of getting the end rewards, not the rewards themselves. There’s no way a PvE player can get raid armor faster than anyone else if they all put in the same effort. An example would be getting an extra Legendary Insight for each boss kill, or 2 or 3 etc.

Getting more pips, and therefore a process of getting rewards faster when the same amount of effort is put into it, is where WvW is at now. All this does is create a hefty entry barrier for new players for WvW and stagnating it again. Just because the rewards may not have been as good doesn’t change the fact that a hardcore PvE player has to follow the exact same process at the exact same rate as everyone else, no matter how much they play PvE and someone else doesn’t.

I’m all for tipping hats to the WvW veterans, but this isn’t the way to do it.

So your solution to the problem you see is to create the same problem somewhere else? Seems rather counterproductive.

I play thief on wvw and do whatever I want, be it roam around or run with the zerg but I hang back and pounce on any squishies or people that stray too far. If I want to run in the fray, I play my revenant, but I don’t roam with it because it’s not the best suited for that role, my thief is. You can’t be upset that you’re trying to fill a role your class can’t do very well, then say that others should be penalized because they can. I want to raid with my rev, it’s my favorite class, but it simply isn’t up to par. Doesn’t mean the classes that are desired for raiding should have to suffer just be because they can do it better.

JayAction.9056:

These buffs are from a pvp standpoint. Making rev more pvp viable.

The equilibrium change is to give rev some of its burst back. It has no burst at the moment. You lose dps when not using auto attack in near all scenarios

The cast time on staff 4 is non issue. It’s quite easy to get it off near 100% of the time even in top pvp. If it needs a buff anywhere, it’s to the potency.

Cruel repercussion is a pve skill.

Hammer will never work in a real pvp build unless its damage is increased dramatically, cast times are lowered, and the weapon gains some defense other than the short rooting evade. Even when COR was on 2 second CD and could land multiple times, hammer was not a strong weapon. It’s strictly a “fun” pve/wvw plaything.

Mace and Axe also need some extreme functionality changes to ever be considered in a pvp build. They are lost causes. Mace lands almost as few attacks as hammer.

If we want more burst potential in rev, then I’d direct it to other places than Equilibrium. iirc, this trait hasn’t been nerfed at all or in a while and is still strong in its current state. I say move burst to other places because all this buff would do is push even more towards Deva, Invo & Herald, which is getting really old.

Cruel Repercussion is a lazy excuse for a trait that goes on the list of many others I hate and want gone, but it is still very usable in PvP settings if you pay attention to when it’s available.

Most of us agree hammer is bad and needs a rework.

Mace and axe could also use changes, but I don’t see them coming soon,and I’d want the hammer one first since it’s the only ranged option.

Equilibrium doesn’t need a damage buff, the heal might be an option, but the damage is fine.

Make the cast time lower on staff 4 and we’ll be getting somewhere, but until Cruel Repercussion is changed, I don’t see this trait being used much more unless it’s needed -that- bad.

No, please, no more weapon traits for ones that already have them, especially when you look at how strong Viscous Lacerations is. A hammer, axe and mace trait need to be added first.

Reading these threads is great. You mention the word ‘nerf’ and everyone goes into a panic and chants ‘l2p’.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

CDs were always on the class

CutesySylveon.8290:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

They weren’t there with pre-beta and betas, if I remember correctly. There might’ve been a few put in at beta-3 though. No CDs is what made the class appealing.

Also, CDs aren’t the only way to balance, so I’d disagree that they’re needed.

I stared in BW2, and there were cd’s on weapons.

Burtnik.5218:

Weapon skills always had cd. But just so you know sword 3 could be used literally every 7 seconds before and was much much more powerful, even if the damage spreaded to other targets each strike was hitting like truck. Now its pretty much a junk.

Utility skills should remain with 0 cd outside of the ones that actually can cc to prevent cc chains/ fake stow cancels like jade winds. They literally took everything that was fun about this class.

I have to agree about the utility.

CC utilities should have cd’s to avoid things like chain Jade Winds or Forced Aggression, but the vast majority of the others need to have their cd’s removed and the skills reworked a bit in the process.

apharma.3741:

CutesySylveon.8290:

While there are many broken things HoT introduced, the many times people point fingers and go ‘(insert class) is more broken!’ isn’t going to lead to anything productive. CS is something that shouldn’t have been implemented in the first place, and that’s the point of the discussion. The sooner people admit these things, even if it’s thier own class, the sooner we can start coming to a reasonable state of balance; even if Anet will never do it.

Start with one, then move onto the next.

The problem with this line of thinking is a class becomes utter garbage as they move from class to class lowering the power of elite specs to be less rediculous. We end up in a situation where gradually only 5 classes are viable then 4, 3, 2, 1 and in esls we get less and less choice.

Essentially it will suck all round, if they nerfed them all together fine but nerfing one thing that’s not overpowered compared to everything else that all other elites have is also not the way to go.

In that context, I meant admitting something needing addressing, rather than actually doing it one by one. I would take class balance on a one class at a time basis if Anet would actually balance it properly. No, it’s not the right way to do it, but it would be better than nothing, which is basically what we have now.

While there are many broken things HoT introduced, the many times people point fingers and go ‘(insert class) is more broken!’ isn’t going to lead to anything productive. CS is something that shouldn’t have been implemented in the first place, and that’s the point of the discussion. The sooner people admit these things, even if it’s thier own class, the sooner we can start coming to a reasonable state of balance; even if Anet will never do it.

Start with one, then move onto the next.

Sagei.1980:

… to be honest, without weapon swap, what advantage would it be? I mean rev is under doing in many ways (in general), so weapon swap isn’t so bad.

Without weapon swap, the sets were supposed to be able to stand alone and serve a variety of purposes, hence why some things were so kitten strong at first; that was all you had. Giving weapon swap made some things stand out as massively OP, like the original SotM.

I would have rather we stayed at one weapon set, but reworked them properly to be able to stand on their own.

I, personally, would like to see cd’s and energy remain on weapons, but Anet’s recent tactic of increasing cd’s on skills is not what I would like to see, and that does make things feel unfair to have the burden of both energy and cd management when everything keeps slowly getting more costly and restrictive.

To answer your question, if they removed the energy cost of weapons, I would rather see a rework of utility energy before increasing cd’s of weapons more, basically making the mechanics a reverse of thief.

This is an area I will admit I get a bit iffy on sometimes, because I think everything went out of whack when they gave rev weapon swap, which was a blessing and a curse.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Energy needs to stay, CD’s need to go. Both on weapons and utilities.

Putting in CDs ruined the class.

As already mentioned, CD’s were already on the class, and taking them off of weapons would break things terribly.

Being able to use s3 multiple times in a row would be massively OP, or SotM. Weapons need CD’s, though I think some are a bit harsh, and there are some utilities that need their CD’s removed, especially some of the high energy ones.

Rym.1469:

The whole idea of implementing actual skills as procs in traits was a missed idea anyway and I hope this sort of design will go away in the future.

The first part of the trait is actually interesting, sadly the proc is more of a trouble rather than a useful bonus.

Of all skills to have as Auto proc, this one was possibly the worst to have, given its function.

Azukas.1426:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Why are you even giving any energy to this? You should have known this was going to happen, and prepared yourself for it like the rest of the world. Revenants were so OP on release and remained so for an entire year. At what point in time did you think that was ok?

Wait you just thought you were good didn’t you?

At no point did I say or imply rev being OP was okay, or did I say that it should stay the way it was, so you might as well drop the hostility.

I’m all for bringing the class in line, and said in my previous post that there are OP things that need changing, but that I don’t think simple number changes are the answer in a lot of cases. I’d rather see some things changed in function, and if that in turn nerfs it from its previous position, then fine.

Your caption seems a bit outdated.

So a skill that evades, knocks down on every hit, and did HUGE damage was ok? A skill that is ranged, chills, and does HUGE damage was ok too? The problem is there was big damage on utility skills and a defensive weapon. OFC they are going to gut the damage when its time to nerf the class. You don’t need to be a gifted prophet or have the ability to tell the future to see THAT one coming LOL.

It happened, deal with it, and move on, because this nerf right here was always going to happen.

You seem far too fixated on one thing to listen to what I’m saying, completely missing that I’m advocating for changes that would help bring the class to a steady point all around; balancing the output with the skill required to use it properly. Stop trying to put words in my mouth.

I’m thoroughly convinced your caption is your own fabrication, or you’re just another troll who can’t troll very well.

Azukas.1426:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Why are you even giving any energy to this? You should have known this was going to happen, and prepared yourself for it like the rest of the world. Revenants were so OP on release and remained so for an entire year. At what point in time did you think that was ok?

Wait you just thought you were good didn’t you?

At no point did I say or imply rev being OP was okay, or did I say that it should stay the way it was, so you might as well drop the hostility.

I’m all for bringing the class in line, and said in my previous post that there are OP things that need changing, but that I don’t think simple number changes are the answer in a lot of cases. I’d rather see some things changed in function, and if that in turn nerfs it from its previous position, then fine.

Your caption seems a bit outdated.

Azukas.1426:

ethanzephyr.7298:

Azukas.1426:

Tgis,is the problem with inevitable outcomes of new expansions

1. The new class will be OP. This is by design to move boxes.

2. The expansion class will eventually be nerfed down to earth.

What you are experiencing is the natural order of things and the truth is the class is perfectly fine and not surpassed yet

That doesn’t make it right. Why is it that we excuse bad ideas on the forums? Even people who disagree with the changes seem to think it’s okay just because “that’s the way it’s supposed to be”.

I’m not saying its wrong or right on Anet’s part. It’s business and the way things are. As a player you should know this before hand and expect this to happen.

Honestly the players complaining about the nerfs are the ones who are the most wrong in this,situation.

I have to disagree with you about complaining about nerfs being wrong, at least as a general.

There are some things that legitimately need nerfs, but the way they’re done makes the difference, and as of late, the lazy change numbers tactic Anet has been doing simply isn’t what’s needed in a lot of cases. Rather, reworking broken skills, either OP, underperforming, or not working at all, should be looked at more, imo.

Some skills clearly do too much, in damage or function etc, while others don’t function properly at all or are very unreliable. This inconsistency causes a lot of frustration to players on both sides who get tired of seeing it ignored.

Gwaihir.1745:

Make weapon skills use very little energy, 5-8 or so. But make utilities stronger but less spammable by increasing cost.

Most utilities aren’t even spammable if you have the energy now that the vast majority have cd’s.

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

Oneira.7691:

Iain Ross.6903:

Correction: Since rev is the strongest class in the game right now, we’ll bring it down a bit to still be really strong, but not too dominant*

Oh yeah, the “slightly” line: 50% and 33% nerf to the 2 main attacks of the Rev is “slightly” and “down a bit”.

It’s funny looking back at the May 2016 nerf to SOTM of 15%. People were saying that ANET did the right thing by being conservative so as not to kill class viability. Then 6 months later they come down with a radical downgrade that looks like it will threaten class viability. 50% downgrade after a 15% downgrade means about at 43-44% downgrade in damage overall. Almost half. So much for taking things slow eh?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Surge-of-the-Mists-Nerfed-YES

I will not be playing my Rev in pvp.

It’s about 10-15% nerf to rev overall, who had insanely high damage in the first place. Rev will still be meta and one of the strongest classes (I believe mes is not the strongest) and then rev) Just the shiro port alone will make it essential.

If every other class has a value of 15k and rev has a value of 20k (which is p much the case) and then rev gets nerfed 15%, let’s say 20% just to be generous. Ppl will QQ about the 20% even tho you’re still at 16k and 1k above the other classes. Look at the results instead of looking at only the changing number to have an excuse to cry.

Funny how you prowl all across the rev forums claiming rev is the godsend of classes, yet never specifically explain why, or even bother to acknowledge the glaring issues with the class, but instead just say ‘High damage, and teamfights’, completely ignoring that rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.

Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal.

I don’t argue, I inform you Now you can either be a good boy and listen or you can continue crying about how “rev sux omg” as solace for being terrible. You clearly have no idea about rev, evident by everything you’ve said about it.

If you could read, then you’d realize I never mentioned the recent changes or said anything suggesting rev as a whole was bad, but that’s asking too much.

Looking for a second ban, are we?

“rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.”

“Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal. "
from ur most recent post alone

Nooo, please don’t ban me, and please don’t hack me and please don’t kitten my mom ;;;;;;;

As someone already mentioned, pointing out aspects of the class is not a claim to it being bad as a whole, obviously. And I’ve yet to hear you offer any counterargument to what I said, so it might as well be assumed that you have none.

I never said u claimed it was bad by pointing out what u say are aspects of the class. I pointed out how you have why u have no idea about rev, which you were in denial of, hence I quoted ur previous post :^)

Once again, I’m informing, not argueing :^)

‘Pointing out’ with no points to point at is just pointing to your kitten , which is a very informative point.

What do you mean no points to point at? I quoted evidence of your obliviousness, which is what I’ve said multiple times. Do you have a hard time reading?

You simply repeated what I said, but made no effort to explain why what I said was supposedly wrong. If you think someone is wrong, then you provide your reasoning for that with an explanation of what you think is right, but you didn’t. I gave my reasoning, and now you’re supposed to give yours. I can’t hold your hand all the time, you know.

Burtnik.5218:

CutesySylveon.8290:

We’ll add it to the list with all the other bugs.

Its not a bug. People complained about unintentionally canceling this trait by wasd so to prevent this situation you can no longer break the effect by movement keys.

Main issue with not being able to break it, is the function of the skill being a root. Being forced to root into a giant ‘Use unblockables’ bubble and not break it is a terrible idea. Honsetly, I don’t know why -that- skill was used on a health rate proc.

We’ll add it to the list with all the other bugs.

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

Oneira.7691:

Iain Ross.6903:

Correction: Since rev is the strongest class in the game right now, we’ll bring it down a bit to still be really strong, but not too dominant*

Oh yeah, the “slightly” line: 50% and 33% nerf to the 2 main attacks of the Rev is “slightly” and “down a bit”.

It’s funny looking back at the May 2016 nerf to SOTM of 15%. People were saying that ANET did the right thing by being conservative so as not to kill class viability. Then 6 months later they come down with a radical downgrade that looks like it will threaten class viability. 50% downgrade after a 15% downgrade means about at 43-44% downgrade in damage overall. Almost half. So much for taking things slow eh?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Surge-of-the-Mists-Nerfed-YES

I will not be playing my Rev in pvp.

It’s about 10-15% nerf to rev overall, who had insanely high damage in the first place. Rev will still be meta and one of the strongest classes (I believe mes is not the strongest) and then rev) Just the shiro port alone will make it essential.

If every other class has a value of 15k and rev has a value of 20k (which is p much the case) and then rev gets nerfed 15%, let’s say 20% just to be generous. Ppl will QQ about the 20% even tho you’re still at 16k and 1k above the other classes. Look at the results instead of looking at only the changing number to have an excuse to cry.

Funny how you prowl all across the rev forums claiming rev is the godsend of classes, yet never specifically explain why, or even bother to acknowledge the glaring issues with the class, but instead just say ‘High damage, and teamfights’, completely ignoring that rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.

Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal.

I don’t argue, I inform you Now you can either be a good boy and listen or you can continue crying about how “rev sux omg” as solace for being terrible. You clearly have no idea about rev, evident by everything you’ve said about it.

If you could read, then you’d realize I never mentioned the recent changes or said anything suggesting rev as a whole was bad, but that’s asking too much.

Looking for a second ban, are we?

“rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.”

“Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal. "
from ur most recent post alone

Nooo, please don’t ban me, and please don’t hack me and please don’t kitten my mom ;;;;;;;

As someone already mentioned, pointing out aspects of the class is not a claim to it being bad as a whole, obviously. And I’ve yet to hear you offer any counterargument to what I said, so it might as well be assumed that you have none.

I never said u claimed it was bad by pointing out what u say are aspects of the class. I pointed out how you have why u have no idea about rev, which you were in denial of, hence I quoted ur previous post :^)

Once again, I’m informing, not argueing :^)

‘Pointing out’ with no points to point at is just pointing to your kitten , which is a very informative point.

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

Oneira.7691:

Iain Ross.6903:

Correction: Since rev is the strongest class in the game right now, we’ll bring it down a bit to still be really strong, but not too dominant*

Oh yeah, the “slightly” line: 50% and 33% nerf to the 2 main attacks of the Rev is “slightly” and “down a bit”.

It’s funny looking back at the May 2016 nerf to SOTM of 15%. People were saying that ANET did the right thing by being conservative so as not to kill class viability. Then 6 months later they come down with a radical downgrade that looks like it will threaten class viability. 50% downgrade after a 15% downgrade means about at 43-44% downgrade in damage overall. Almost half. So much for taking things slow eh?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Surge-of-the-Mists-Nerfed-YES

I will not be playing my Rev in pvp.

It’s about 10-15% nerf to rev overall, who had insanely high damage in the first place. Rev will still be meta and one of the strongest classes (I believe mes is not the strongest) and then rev) Just the shiro port alone will make it essential.

If every other class has a value of 15k and rev has a value of 20k (which is p much the case) and then rev gets nerfed 15%, let’s say 20% just to be generous. Ppl will QQ about the 20% even tho you’re still at 16k and 1k above the other classes. Look at the results instead of looking at only the changing number to have an excuse to cry.

Funny how you prowl all across the rev forums claiming rev is the godsend of classes, yet never specifically explain why, or even bother to acknowledge the glaring issues with the class, but instead just say ‘High damage, and teamfights’, completely ignoring that rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.

Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal.

I don’t argue, I inform you Now you can either be a good boy and listen or you can continue crying about how “rev sux omg” as solace for being terrible. You clearly have no idea about rev, evident by everything you’ve said about it.

If you could read, then you’d realize I never mentioned the recent changes or said anything suggesting rev as a whole was bad, but that’s asking too much.

Looking for a second ban, are we?

“rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.”

“Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal. "
from ur most recent post alone

Nooo, please don’t ban me, and please don’t hack me and please don’t kitten my mom ;;;;;;;

As someone already mentioned, pointing out aspects of the class is not a claim to it being bad as a whole, obviously. And I’ve yet to hear you offer any counterargument to what I said, so it might as well be assumed that you have none.

Iain Ross.6903:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Iain Ross.6903:

Oneira.7691:

Iain Ross.6903:

Correction: Since rev is the strongest class in the game right now, we’ll bring it down a bit to still be really strong, but not too dominant*

Oh yeah, the “slightly” line: 50% and 33% nerf to the 2 main attacks of the Rev is “slightly” and “down a bit”.

It’s funny looking back at the May 2016 nerf to SOTM of 15%. People were saying that ANET did the right thing by being conservative so as not to kill class viability. Then 6 months later they come down with a radical downgrade that looks like it will threaten class viability. 50% downgrade after a 15% downgrade means about at 43-44% downgrade in damage overall. Almost half. So much for taking things slow eh?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Surge-of-the-Mists-Nerfed-YES

I will not be playing my Rev in pvp.

It’s about 10-15% nerf to rev overall, who had insanely high damage in the first place. Rev will still be meta and one of the strongest classes (I believe mes is not the strongest) and then rev) Just the shiro port alone will make it essential.

If every other class has a value of 15k and rev has a value of 20k (which is p much the case) and then rev gets nerfed 15%, let’s say 20% just to be generous. Ppl will QQ about the 20% even tho you’re still at 16k and 1k above the other classes. Look at the results instead of looking at only the changing number to have an excuse to cry.

Funny how you prowl all across the rev forums claiming rev is the godsend of classes, yet never specifically explain why, or even bother to acknowledge the glaring issues with the class, but instead just say ‘High damage, and teamfights’, completely ignoring that rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.

Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal.

I don’t argue, I inform you Now you can either be a good boy and listen or you can continue crying about how “rev sux omg” as solace for being terrible. You clearly have no idea about rev, evident by everything you’ve said about it.

If you could read, then you’d realize I never mentioned the recent changes or said anything suggesting rev as a whole was bad, but that’s asking too much.

Looking for a second ban, are we?

Iain Ross.6903:

Oneira.7691:

Iain Ross.6903:

Correction: Since rev is the strongest class in the game right now, we’ll bring it down a bit to still be really strong, but not too dominant*

Oh yeah, the “slightly” line: 50% and 33% nerf to the 2 main attacks of the Rev is “slightly” and “down a bit”.

It’s funny looking back at the May 2016 nerf to SOTM of 15%. People were saying that ANET did the right thing by being conservative so as not to kill class viability. Then 6 months later they come down with a radical downgrade that looks like it will threaten class viability. 50% downgrade after a 15% downgrade means about at 43-44% downgrade in damage overall. Almost half. So much for taking things slow eh?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Surge-of-the-Mists-Nerfed-YES

I will not be playing my Rev in pvp.

It’s about 10-15% nerf to rev overall, who had insanely high damage in the first place. Rev will still be meta and one of the strongest classes (I believe mes is not the strongest) and then rev) Just the shiro port alone will make it essential.

If every other class has a value of 15k and rev has a value of 20k (which is p much the case) and then rev gets nerfed 15%, let’s say 20% just to be generous. Ppl will QQ about the 20% even tho you’re still at 16k and 1k above the other classes. Look at the results instead of looking at only the changing number to have an excuse to cry.

Funny how you prowl all across the rev forums claiming rev is the godsend of classes, yet never specifically explain why, or even bother to acknowledge the glaring issues with the class, but instead just say ‘High damage, and teamfights’, completely ignoring that rev’s damage falls quicker than a stone in teamfights, and most of its viable support comes from the lazy design of boon bot Glint, which no one wants in the first place.

Shiro’s port is trash compared to other options. Lousy tracking with terrain, consumes energy if failed, requires a target in the first place, obvious animation, requiring shiro and locking you into other utilities you may not need, along with his trash heal.

It’s clear the devs don’t know how to deal with Revenant.

The changes to Precision Strike were in the complete wrong direction, and Anet’s stubborn denial to accept that the function of the skill is the issue, not the damage. An easy change to make, is that stacking hits on one person does less damage so it isn’t so broken in 1v1, but not even WORSE than it is now in teamfights with the damage going everywhere, including at things that aren’t enemies: ie, the GROUND. (Yes, that part irritates me)

Surge of the Mists is another example of a skill that does too much. As a hard CC, an evade, and a damage skill, it’s clearly got too much going for it, and personally, I would rather it have not been implemented in the first place. I’ve always voiced that I hate the ridiculous amount of CC flying around, and SotM is one of the main contenders, partly because staff is used on nearly every power build as the offhand, and it doing eight consecutive hits. Great on break bars, but you can see where the difficulty in balancing would come from.

The Warding Rift nerf was unnecessarily, in my opinion, and staff 2 is still trash at its intended purpose, which was as an interrupt, at least if you don’t mind soaking damage for the sake of it. SotM…I’m honestly not sure what to do about this one.

The Mallyx change took far too long to come about, but there’s no denying it’s a shadow of what it was, and could have been. The lack of a ranged condi weapon still holds that build back tremendously as well.

Also, any word on bug fixes? Like the still ever popular s3 confusion bug?

The only reason there are underwater skills in the new specs, is because Anet made the system and now they have to stick to it. As far as practical content where underwater is used, aside from the jellyfish fractal, yes, Anet abandoned it.

Anet has pretty much abandoned underwater combat.

Iain Ross.6903:

Doctor.1905:

After getting champion ritualist in season 3 and 4 to division 6, I would say if you are playing an Invocation power Revenant.

-Chronophantasma Shatter- DISADVANTAGE 20% chance to win
-Meditrapper- NEUTRAL 50% chance to win
-Bunker Druid- DISADVANTAGE 30% chance to win
-Power Shiro Invocation- NEUTRAL, ADVANTAGE 60% chance to win if you jump on them with Shiro
-Power Shiro Retribution- DISADVANTAGE- 40% chance to win
-Power Scrapper- NEUTRAL- 50% chance to win
-D/F Auramancer- ADVANTAGE- 80% chance to win if given enough time
-Corruptionmancer- ADVANTAGE- 60% chance to win IF you jump them, DISADVANTAGE 30% chance to win IF they jump and kite you around
-Macebow warrior- DISADVANTAGE- 30% chance to win
-D/p unhindered combatant thief- DISADVANTAGE- 40% chance to win
-D/p bounding dodger thief- DISADVANTAGE- 40% chance to win
-Mara staff shortbow acro trick daredevil teef- ADVANTAGE- 60% chance to win
-Mara staff acro trick daredevil teef using dp or pp offhand- DISADVANTAGE- 40% chance to win
-S/F fresh air ele- ADVANTAGE- 60% chance to win
-Power shatter- ADVANTAGE- 60% chance to win
-Power based GS/longbow or mace/shield warrior- ADVANTAGE- 60% chance to win

You’ll notice that Invocation rev has some bad matchups against a lot of the other meta comps which is why revs are usually placed in team fights instead of 1v1s. Revs are excellent cleavers and chasers. I still think revs are the best arena profession right now with all ESL teams playing one.

This is so wrong.

While I don’t agree with everything stated, most are very reasonable and at least can be grounded when you don’t consider skill level and go simply build against build. It’s no secret rev struggles against mesmers quite a bit, but if I went against a decent rev with condi mes, I’d lose simply because I don’t know to play the class.

As far as thief matchups go, the one who gets the better opening has the advantage, imo, and I don’t think putting them into a simple percentage to win is the best way of comparing.

Dragonfeu.4356:

Honestly, I don’t get why people are whining. In my eyes, Revs are OP.

spammable PIERCING boonstrip on mallyx + resistance
aoe 50% dmg reduction/condi dmg reduction on jalis (if you trait for it)
projectile destroying field from ventari

plus shiro/herald. there’s always the argument that other classes do x better, but I think rev is in a good place and shouldn’t be cheated of a place in high end fractals. my only issue with rev are the bugs and lack of builds we can utilise (for example, legends are inherently aligned with a certain playstyle, shiro with power) and other builds, for example condi, are laughable bad

A few problems here.

One, rev spamming Banish Enhancement is an energy sink, and a poor use of energy that will leave you with maybe the first three weapon skills to use. Same with Pain Absorption and RotGD. Yeah, it’s nice, but you’re not looking at the costs of these things.

Two, ventari’s block is about all the legend is ever used for.

To do these things, rev is forced into a whole range of skills that may not be useful in ANY way, but if you want that mobile projectile block, you have to take the rest of the skills too, which may be useless to you. Apply this with any legend, having something useful that you want while having X number of things you don’t, and more often than not, these niche situations don’t warrant the ‘baggage’ that comes with what you want.

I like the class, and want to see it do well and be properly balanced, but simply having the tools doesn’t mean they’re good if you can’t apply them effectively. On paper, it’s really nice and has great potential, but we all know it ends up with the same builds over and over, there’s a reason for it.

Hwarang.4789:

Taobella.6597:

i can upload some video if you want my rev can press move tablet + 7 heal my allies for 11k hp i run 2k healing power 155.5% out going healing if everything popped

Please do. Interested. Greatly.

Me as well. I tried a full healing power spec once in WvW, food and all, and it was very underwhelming as a ventari rev.

Zenith.7301:

CutesySylveon.8290:

The primary burst of each really is the deciding factor in most cases. If a thief misses a steal, the the fight takes a serious turn against them. Essence Sap is extremely nasty from a thief, and denying them all the benefits of steal, usually healing, initiative regen, endurance recovery and an easy interrupt, can mean a quick fight.

Kind of hard to do when the skill is kittening instant. And in the thief’s case, they can just keep resetting until the wind blows their way or they run you out of cd’s.

That’s why I said initial burst usually decides it. A good thief isn’t predictable with his steal, and that, along with it being completely instant, makes it extremely difficult to avoid, yes.

At least in WvW, a lot of thieves open with steal the moment they get in range, if they don’t do it from stealth, and most I see are typically full or nearly full glass. Hammer can help here, especially if they drop Shadow Refuge, but becomes useless the moment they get in your face.

Avoiding steal is a guess, in the end, but any class that fights thief has this issue, not just rev.

Personally, fixing bugged or broken aspects of the class are more important to me. These are things that were never intended, and shouldn’t be addressed only in the quarterly patch, if they’re addressed at all.

Other things, like reworks of terrible designs etc would probably come next.

The primary burst of each really is the deciding factor in most cases. If a thief misses a steal, the the fight takes a serious turn against them. Essence Sap is extremely nasty from a thief, and denying them all the benefits of steal, usually healing, initiative regen, endurance recovery and an easy interrupt, can mean a quick fight.

flow.6043:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Next time, try giving some counter points to prove someone wrong if you feel they are, instead of just saying l2p. It makes you look like a moron.

Ok, let’s review your earlier comments then…

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief has every tool needed to stop a necro dead in its tracks, even the more risky thief builds like D/D.

Not sure if this warrents a counter argument yet but it was already enough for me to know that you don’t play your necro to its full potential, most likely because you don’t know how to manage your life force and/or because your build is bad.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Extremely high burst potential, high mobility, stealth and easy reset potential all run circles around necro, who doesn’t have high burst, any mobility, and can’t reset a fight that’s not going well for it.

Thief has high burst potential, yes. But that doesn’t mean he can actually land this damage on your actual health pool if you know how to properly defend yourself.

@necro, the only thing I agree with here is the lack of mobility.
Necros do have high bursts.
And the inability to reset a fight against a thief doesn’t matter. If the thief disengages ooc it resets the fight for you as well. Or did you mean that a thief has better sustain in combat? In that case, that’s not true, and again: change your build and/or l2p.

CutesySylveon.8290:

No amount of starting life force will help you either, because all a thief has to do is kite the reaper shroud, or interrupt everything normal shroud tries to do for massive pulm damage.

Ok, I see where you’re going with this one, but the matter of starting life force in a duel against a thief is only important for the very first attack they try to land on you. This one has to be absorbed by life force otherwise you’re basically starting the fight with half of your hp.
Starting life force isn’t supposed to last you a certain amount of time. After the thief’s initial engagement you need to have proper in combat life force regeneration. If you don’t, change your build. If you can’t, l2p.

CutesySylveon.8290:

D/P thief has all the necessary tools in that set alone to deal with necro from easy stealth access, high damage gap closer and on demand interrupts, MM makes this more annoying, but steal just bypasses the body blocking

I won’t again debunk your anecdotal evidence of what a thief could do to a training golem. But one thing needs to be said here: MM sucks in any kind of PvP environment against any semi competent player and should therefore never be used anyway.

This is going to be a pain on mobile.

The builds I used at the time were either meta or slightly modified to something I preferred, so build wasn’t an issue.

It’s not hard landing a hit on the actual life pool when all you have to do is kite shroud, assuming reaper since it’s more common, and either force him to deplete, or steal the moment it drops. (Insert any other thief gap closer over steal if you wish.)

Necro burst amounts to rs5+4 combo, and GD, two of the most telling bursts there could be. So burst? Maybe. Practical? No, not against something with numerous evades and anyone with reflexes. The point being made is that the thief has control of the situation, necro doesn’t. Unless the thief let’s you chip away at him or blows his resources, he has the upper hand to force a necro to act, blowing CDs or going in shroud etc.

The moment shroud pops, run. General rule against a reaper, and with only one leap and no practical means of locking the thief down, like with chill, assuming he runs dash like most do, then you just end up running and draining your meter, and the moment you drop it, necro becomes vulnerable, giving thief an easy opening.

Looking at D/P as a set is not anecdotal evidence. It has the most diverse set of tools at a thief’s disposal, all of which do well against necro.

I’m speaking from the thief fighting necro perspective. So I’m looking at what I needed to do against him.

flow.6043:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Hate to say it, but the opposite is true.

Hate to say it, but l2p…

Perfect comeback.

I’ve mained necro and thief, so I think I know how each of them play, and thief has the upper hand simply by how the class functions; highly mobile with high burst damage, things necro struggles against.

Next time, try giving some counter points to prove someone wrong if you feel they are, instead of just saying l2p. It makes you look like a moron.

flow.6043:

Flumek.9043:

power or condi mesmer can 100-0 any necro …

Same with thief.
You should NOT be wining a duel against a competent thief.
…

I’m surprised to see you say this.

I won’t argue that necros are easy targets in team fights for high burst class like thieves or mesmers, or other unfavorable circumstances like starting without life force.

However, in a straight up 1v1 on even skills there’s absolute no chance a thief could have the upper hand against a necro. It’s a more even fight against mesmers, but still necros have the advantage in this matchup.

@Svarty, it seems what you need most is practice in a sterile environment like a guild arena. Lots of duel repetitions, lots feedback on your mistakes in game, rather than vague and general advice here on the forum.

Hate to say it, but the opposite is true.

Thief has every tool needed to stop a necro dead in its tracks, even the more risky thief builds like D/D.

Extremely high burst potential, high mobility, stealth and easy reset potential all run circles around necro, who doesn’t have high burst, any mobility, and can’t reset a fight that’s not going well for it.

No amount of starting life force will help you either, because all a thief has to do is kite the reaper shroud, or interrupt everything normal shroud tries to do for massive pulm damage.

D/P thief has all the necessary tools in that set alone to deal with necro from easy stealth access, high damage gap closer and on demand interrupts, MM makes this more annoying, but steal just bypasses the body blocking

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Hammer while under Impossible Odds was a good tactic for me in sPvP.

Spamming the AA under quickness doesn’t change the fact that the weapon is terrible just because it hurts to be hit with.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done this to cheeky thieves that try to run after getting hit with something nasty and it tends to catch them off guard, but if they turned around, then that hammer has nothing to help keep them from running right back to me.

Hammer has no real purpose other than spamming CoR in a backline. As a ranged weapon, it’s complete garbage, and reverting hammer 2 to what it was before would just be accepting its current state, and tossing out the chance for a proper rework.