Showing Posts For Dustfinger.9510:

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

It’s not because it happened a very few times and with special conditions, than it is lore-stated , common or prove.
And Captain Heda used a “heavy oak bench” to repulse them. If you read it again she didn’t beated them , because this wasn’t a fight, but a ratio of strenght to strenght ( and more than this we didn’t know who were these charr).
Further, this is like that in all the examples of norn vs warband, the norn throws them, repulses them or what you want, but they actually didn’t beat them.

Captain Heda picked up the closest thing she had which happened to be a bench. And she definitlt beat them since we know that these charr were battle hardened (like all charr), experience fighters who ambushed the council. Tell me how this is not beating them, the charr were armed, out to kill and she pinned all three armed charr against the wall rendering them helpless with a bench. that sounds pretty decisive to me. And it defintily sounds like a fight.


“To the side, Captain Heda took om three charr at once. She’s picked up a heavy oak bench, her arms rippling with massive strength beneath the softness of her chubby body. When all three charged her, Hedda set her feet and held the bench crosswise in front of her chest, setting her entire weight against it. Even with all three charr pushing as hard as they could, the buxom norn woman walked forwar step by step, shoving them back with each stride. When she reached the edge of the pavilion, Hedda gave a roar and slammed the bench back even farther, pinning all three squirming soldiers against the wall.”

edit: also, the events of the MotW aren’t too special since that was the general outcome of the attacks. It is lore stated and it is proven to have happened. Nothing about either of those accounts indicates that it was special or an exception.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Profession's Archetypes

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

So, I don’t know where else to put this. (Not in the profession subforums that’s for sure – they’re too busy crying about their changes [I think. Meh, what do I know?])

Anyway, when comparing the Professions of GW2 to normal fantasy archetypes, where would the profession fall into? Like, a Guardian would be a Cleric or a Paladin or a Crusader or whatever.

Engineers would be alchemists and stuffs. Maybe they could even be modern day hunters .(you know, in Urban Fantasy people would use guns and gadgets and elixirs and crap.)

The classes don’t generally have hard arch-types. Because the archtypes will be dependant on many factors including player race, weapon, and personal preference.

e.g.: A ranger could be a scout or classic ranger for humans, beast master or scout for charr, hunter for norn, biologist for asura, warden for sylvari.

And of course there will be a lot of overlap just in those racial tendancies. That’s before we account for human hunters, sylvari scouts, etc. etc.

tldr: The classes don’t generally have hard lore like they do in other fantasy universes. So there is a lot of wiggle room for a lot of different arch types in each individual class.

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

The Movement of the World says that when the charr invaded, that “warbands and smaller raiding parties could not overcome the individual strength of the Norn”.

Some have interpreted this to mean that the charr couldn’t beat the combined norn force but I see no need for the term “individual strength” if that is the case. And individual norn taking on warbands and small raiding parties seems to be more believable when we see an unarmed chubby norn female take on and subdue three armed charr during a charr ambush, in Sea of Sorrows.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World#Charr

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I don’t think they did make a mistake. Focusing on Ascalon would only have meant a perpetual battle against the ghosts at the time. So there would have been no change there. But attacking Kryta and Orr means they put those human nations in their own war so they couldn’t just build their forces and attack on their own terms.

It also made sense to attack both. Orr because that was the traditional seat of the gods and it was really the gods that drove the humans to conquer Ascalon in the first place. so that is really preemptively sound. And Kryta was reinforcing Ebonhawke.

Didn’t they attack Orr and Kryta before the Foefire though? I’m not mixing things up am I?

They did attack them before the foefire. Not before the searing though.

Help me to the lore of this game universe.

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Was the flame legion really the leader of the charr? I remember the flame legion imperator took under assault the Ascalonian capital so he will a great feat to be recognised as their Khan but we all know what happened in that assault.

The FL did rule the charr through proxy. The shaman of the other legions ruled their legions due to the titans giving the shaman power. And the FL had the most shamans. Since the last real khan Ur died, the major legions have been vying for controle of the charr but any Khan-Ur needs to be strong enough to maintain controle since charr society constantly challenges their superiors.

" In the end, the Shamans of the rival legions met in secret, unified their differences, and swore to force each legion to follow these new gods. As one, they returned to their individual city-states and convinced their people to worship the Titans–all save for one Charr named Bathea Havocbringer. This heroine, whose strength and Warrior ability had made her a leader among the Blood Legion, fought against this sacrilege and was killed for it by the Shamans, her execution a sacrifice to the new gods." http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ecology_of_the_Charr

Why I do not get among all the other legions the fire legion had the biggest losses in recovering Ascalon why are they so hated?

All legions were involved in taking Ascalaon “One of the leaders of the Flame Legion at the time, Bonfaaz Burntfur, spurred the charge against the Wall, leading the Shamans in a further show of unity.”

The FL is so hated because of how they ruled when they were in charge and their continual dependence on false gods.

“The Flame Legion is condemned more for their worship of false gods and longtime oppression of the other legions than for the fact they have a preference for fireballs.” http://www.onlinewelten.com/games/guild-wars-2/interviews/jeff-grubb-im-interview-zu-charr-7759/seite-3/

Still I am surprised they did not aknowlege they sacrifice and effort were is the honor in that?

All legions sacrificed as Ishmael said.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Engineer - why not perma swift and others?

in Engineer

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

You referenced reality when it comes to the mines. So as a person who has served multiple years in the US Armed forces and spent time deployed, and personally had direct contact with mines, IED’s, and other explosive devices, I am curious to where you got your expertise to declare how they “behave in reality” ???

Mines should be an instant win if they hit an enemy. That would be realistic and it would fix this broken class. Oh…. and one good hit from a fifle should do the same. And flamethrower should only take a partial hit to win. And the engineer should explode into a ball of defeated flames if he gets hit while weildinf the flamethrower. Grenades! Don’t even get me started. No one should be able to keep fighting after a barrage of grenades goes off around them. :P

Is this really all engis 'nerfbat' is ?

in Engineer

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

After reading through this thread there doesn’t actually seem to be any problem.

Norn Fighting Tengu God?

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

It may have been concept but it doesn’t look like that concept was a raven to me. it looks more like a bird of prey like an eagle or hawk than any raven.

Engineer - why not perma swift and others?

in Engineer

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Only one I know of said they were working on all weapons for all classes. So the long awaited hammer engi was a check.

Norn Fighting Tengu God?

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Oo, yeah that looks like it might be a centaur after all. I don’t really see a raven though. And raven form doesn’t have wings.

Norn Fighting Tengu God?

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Interesting a-net art I’ve stumbled across while looking for reference pics.

Attachments:

Who would win in a fight, a Charr or Norn?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

The Charr are more savage, but the Norn’s raw power is something that allows them to live these solitary lives. Similar to a grizzly bear, an animal that fights with packs of wolves all the time, they are balanced by sheer strength.

Tigers kill brown bears (often bigger than grizzly bears) all the time. Tigers are somewhat smaller, but much faster and stronger. They also kill crocodiles, bison, even elephants.

Cats are basically designed for taking down large prey. They leap from ambush (tigers can leap up to 30 feet), grab onto their prey with their claws, and crush the victims windpipe. Sometimes they’ll just bite through the neck and crush the vertebrae.

Lorewise Norn are stronger, because: magic.

But in reality, without magic, a big cat would easily beat a big humanoid. A tiger is easily strong enough to crush a skull or snap a neck with a single blow.

Tigers kill baby and sick elephants but it is extremely uncommon for them to attack adult elephants or rhinos because it is a huge gamble. One or both will end up mortally injured.

“…Tigers generally avoid full-grown male Brown bears (which
usually weigh more than 200 kg in this region), but will frequently
predate on cubs and smaller females…”

Source:The Illustrated Encyclopedia Of North American Mammals

Tigers rarely kill male brown bears. In such cases the tiger usually takes the bear by surprise during hibernation.
Tigers will usually avoid bears. A bear may try to steal a tiger’s kill. The bear uses its paws to rain blows to the head and shoulders. ///// The Amur tiger shares the forest with a powerful neighbor: the brown bear. A close relative of the Alaskan grizzly, the brown bear lacks the ferocity of its cousin, but can grow larger, with big males regularly reaching 1500 lb.
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/conflict9.html

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I’d agree with Zaxares. It’s stated in Sea of Sorrows that all norn train to be heroic since childhood, but that heroism rarely translates into working in concert like the charr do. The entire charr society is a military branch. And excluding the Flame Legion nation, they have three entire military branches working in concert. Each with their own specialty but each also self contained and self sustaining.

What happened to the Ritualist?

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Oooh, I like the idea of GW2 Necromancers getting access to Urn magic.

I like it too. Fits with the open ended classes that are prevalent in GW2.

Why can't I make my asura look sexy?

in Asura

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Thanky. I the steampunk look they offer and it fits with the interest in the charr tech.

Help me to the lore of this game universe.

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

At the end of the third guild war who was the strongest human nation?

Hookay, looks like the first one was between Ascalon and Kryta. No further info. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/First_Guild_War

The second one was between Ascalon and Kryta again with Ascalon being victorious. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Second_Guild_War

And the third one known as The Guild War (which is where I made that left turn) involved Ascalon, Kryta and Orr and was ended by the charr invasion. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Third_Guild_War

Help me to the lore of this game universe.

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Well, they are numbered now, but I don’t think they were in the first game.

Ooo. Do you have a link? I might be missing a lot of details from within those wars.

nvm, found some wki info

Why can't I make my asura look sexy?

in Asura

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I like the unisex coats on the asura. I use the same one.

Attachments:

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

^I never said they lost to Kryta I said they did not won because of bad decisions to attack all 3 nations. Better said they lost because they did not completely win if you get my point.

I can see that. But consider this: the only reason EH was such a problem is because they were supported by a whole other kingdom with all it’s resources in tact. Imagine if they started focusing on one kingdom and had two whole nations backing EH with two nations resources in tact.

edit: Or if they sent their entire force into Orr or Ascalon and lost the whole army when they sacrificed themselves.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Help me to the lore of this game universe.

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Ohh. Yeah, that is confusing. The game is named after the guild wars of Tyrian history but we don’t actually engage in the guild wars. we start the game as the guild wars end due to the charr invasion. So there was no multiple guild wars, there was only one big series of conflicts called the guild wars that ended with the start of the first game.

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Still they kinda lost I mean 200 years later and they did not even set foot in LA after they were repelled as army and now with the new capital way further and so in land that chance is gone. But that is not the point the point is that they lost to much with this ventures after all armies after armies were wiped out you see the mongols at the time of Ghengis Khan needed one defeat and goodbye empire but it did not happen the charr had so much potential to take the world if they focused all their armies at one enemy at a time but they did not and there still there after 200 years there not taking all of Ascalon.

They were focusing on Ebonhawke. Scouting LA was in anticipation of defeating EH who they were focusing on.

They didn’t lose because it is specifically stated that kryta had no major victories. Kryta wasn’t being focused on. Saying the charr lost to kryta is like saying that any one of the human nations lost the guild wars. No one did because it was an ongoing conflict. But we know that the charr held all major victories and they were gearing up to focus on kryta. Losing minor battles doesn’t equate to losing the war. Especially since it is specifically stated that they had no major victories.

edit: the capitol was moved in land due to zaitans attack. that doesn’t really factor into whether the charr made a mistake or not since no one could have anticipated that. And krytas strength has always been it’s navy. If the charr didn’t have to worry about it’s navy kryta would be less of a threat, not more.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Help me to the lore of this game universe.

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

At the end of the third guild war who was the strongest human nation?

The guild wars were a series of conflicts and hostilities between the three human nations. None of them came out on top because they only ended due to the charr invasion.

“The Guild Wars lasted for decades. It was not comprised of any single campaign; instead, it encompassed a long-term struggle between a number of distinct factions. Over time, with no clear victor, the quest for dominance embroiled all the human nations. The Guild Wars came to an abrupt and brutal end by the emergence of an even greater threat. The Charr invaded the human kingdoms,…” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars

edit: We can really only assume they rivaled each other in power with their major strategies resting on their own national strengths.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

^I meant when Kryta pushed them out of their territory having a war not on your own turf is a victory to me.

They had a victory in battle but the book Sea of Sorrows confirms that they didn’t have any major victories. The charr new they needed to be able to focus their attention on kryta. And the charr already had the capitol of Kryta (LA) mapped out with the newer generations of warbands specifically studying krytans. And the Iron Legion was building up it’s navy in an effort to rival krytas supremacy of the seas. So the war on krytas territory was definitely coming.

A common invasion tactic in RL was to send out initial invasion forces in order to see how far you can get. It tells you what kind of resistance you can expect and it tells you what is actuall a threat. (Ghengis Khan did it and it just turned out that there was no force that was prepared for his type of assaults.) So once the initial charr invasions were eventually repelled, it allowed them to have an accurate battle map strategy of where forces needed to be and what needed to be prioritized.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

^Was not the Ascalon incident were all have been made ghosts was after Kryta and Orr defeated the charr?

Kryta never defeated the charr. they were still at war up until recently when the elder dragons attacked. Until then, they were sacrificing waves of troops to bolster Ebonhawkes defenses. And the charrr were planning on attacking the captitol of kryta once they conquered ebonhawke.

The events of Orr echo the events of Ascalon but they happened after ascalon was already ravaged by the searing. Then they marched south to Orr. The leaders of each nation had only pyric victories since they destroyed their nations in an effort to thwart the charr.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orr
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Cataclysm

Did the Charr made a big mistake?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I don’t think they did make a mistake. Focusing on Ascalon would only have meant a perpetual battle against the ghosts at the time. So there would have been no change there. But attacking Kryta and Orr means they put those human nations in their own war so they couldn’t just build their forces and attack on their own terms.

It also made sense to attack both. Orr because that was the traditional seat of the gods and it was really the gods that drove the humans to conquer Ascalon in the first place. so that is really preemptively sound. And Kryta was reinforcing Ebonhawke.

Lack of In-game Lore

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

sad that gw2 have such an awesome lore couldnt find away to tell it better ingame.


Maybe because the lore isn’t that great ???
Having a Dragon that turns living beings into minions isn’t the greatest
invention ever. This followed by the the next threat being a Dragon that turns living beings into minions is just aweful.
Of course having the heros always not working together and find a way to make them working together like the last dragon isn’t helping either.

Sometimes i wonder they have just 1 story writer and he is just changing the names of the dragons and hopes none of the 12 year old fanboys will notice.

We…… already knew that there were multiple dragons. They were all categorized as “elder dragons” and we knew we would have had to deal with all of them at some point in time since they are cataclysmic forces.

Why can't I make my asura look sexy?

in Asura

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Yeah, we don’t have boobs but we should be able to wear the female version of armor / outfit! In real life, girls who have small boobs don’t wear male clothes, duh!

female cloths aren’t necessarily revealing either.

Attachments:

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Charr do NOT have the strongest military. Again, they may have had the strongest military when they were the subjects of the Titans. But since then they have become fractured. They cast off the shaman caste that held a lot of their power. They’re still strong, but not the force that invaded Ascalon and Orr. The Charr are quite a bit weaker than they were at their height, and humans are much stronger than they were at their lowpoint.

What really makes the races strong though is their integration with each other.

It doesn’t matter if a nation is as strong as it ever was or if it is at it’s strongest. e.g.: A grawl tribe may be at it’s strongest in history, that doesn’t mean it is the strongest nor does it mean it is stronger than the weakest playable race-nation. Out of all the playable races, who do you think has the strongest military?

Engie who use elite crate in 1vs1 =noob?

in Engineer

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

There are codes of honor, and they certainly have their value. One might enforce some limits on himself in order to force himself to get better. One might decide to give his enemy every possible chance in order to show himself that there is no way that their opponent could have beat him. One might decide handicapping themselves is more fair due to a variety of reasons.

However, if someone I trying to enforce their own personal code on you, that isn’t a code of honor. That is them trying to handicap you and if they are successful, it actually has the opposite effect than sticking to a code of honor has. It stacks the deck in their favor in order to give them a clear advantage. It shows that they aren’t as confident in their skills as they may wish they were.

tldr: Trying to handicap someone else is a sign of weakness. No duelist in any sport or competition should expect their opponent to handicap themselves. If they really had a code of honor, they wouldn’t throw tantrum when you choose not to follow it because the entire purpose of a code of honor is to follow a set of rules that may not be followed by others.

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I really do not get you all there was a event in a book were a charr beat the crap out of a drunk Norn which is a normal thing for a Norn to be so why do all of you people still say that a Norn is stronger and is not a a thing that proved that they are not the strongest race.

There’s also an event in a book where one unarmed flabby female norn took on three armed charr that ambushed her.


To the side, Captain Heda took om three charr at once. She’s picked up a heavy oak bench, her arms rippling with massive strength beneath the softness of her chubby body. When all three charged her, Hedda set her feet and held the bench crosswise in front of her chest, setting her entire weight against it. Even with all three charr pushing as hard as they could, the buxom norn woman walked forwar step by step, shoving them back with each stride. When she reached the edge of the pavilion, Hedda gave a roar and slammed the bench back even farther, pinning all three squirming soldiers against the wall.

It is a lore fact that norn are the strongest individual playable race. But I think this topic is really to do with the racial society vs the other racial sociaties. Rather than individuals against individuals.

How tall should I make my Norn?

in Norn

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Go tallest. I made mine just over mid range thinking he would be average height. Not so! There are so many other characters of other races that are max height (especially human males) that it really dwarves the norn. I used a kit to make my norn max height just so I could feel like a norn.

Jumping

in Asura

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Np. A-nets philosophy is that they wanted your choice of race to be largely based on flavor, so even the racials are subpar compared to the class skills.

Jumping

in Asura

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

mechanic-wise? yes. There is no difference as far as how high characters can jump or how far or hard they can swing a weapon.

Engie who use elite crate in 1vs1 =noob?

in Engineer

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Noobs cry when they lose. And they blame it on you when they should blame themselves. They’re the same types who cry that low sweep is cheese mode in every sidescroll fighting game.

How do Charr grip things?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

What Ishmael said. In Ghosts of Ascalon, Almorra Soulkeeper retracted her claws.

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Forming a militia when there is virtually no other protective presence in vulnerable and hostile territory is not “militarization”. Hell, forming a militia in any circumstance is not militarization. You have such a flawed understanding of reality that there was no hope for this discussion in the first place. This is not a topic you are evidently capable of understanding.

A militia is a body of citizen soldiers. Militarization is the pursuit of military ideals. So organizing a soldiery even made up of citizen soldiers is a form of militarization. Clearly you project your limits onto others.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Thiefs and Greatswords !

in Thief

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

And according to the character creation, one theme option for or thieves that is already available to us is:

“I mean business. I’m the bruiser, the muscle, the beat you don’t want to poke. My headband keeps my vision clear no matter how physical I get”

So, there really is no lore in GW2 that says the thief class needs to be assassin arch types over bandits or rogue arch types. Dual pistols is clear proof of this.

How do Charr grip things?

in Charr

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Lorewise, the claws are retractible.

In retractible claws, the tip digit simply rotates backwards so when they makes a fist or hold something the surface area of the tip digit would still provide surface area. It just wouldn’t be the surface area in the same place on that last digit as you or I.

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Godkitten it how can you not understand this. I’m not talking about different societies,—-some stuff—-parallels, and not to feudal lords. Either you are being intentionally dishonest for no discernible or you simply don’t understand. At this point, I don’t care which it is because the result is the same frustration of trying to point out the circle peg doesn’t go into the triangle slot.

So let’s forget all the little tangents that apparently have nothing to do with the conversation and we’ll break it down to it’s barest elements.

-You said, the human communities should all be militarized because that’s what people do IRL.

-My response to that is that it doesn’t always happen. That’s a fact. For a myriad of reasons, throughout history, all over the world, it doesn’t always happen. Basic truth.

-You pointing out instances when it does happen doesn’t suddenly cause all the times when it doesn’t happen to cease to exist. And as long as there are times when people don’t militarize, even while under threat, then it makes communities in tyria that don’t, plausible. Because out of all those myriad of reasons for people not to do it, only one needs to apply to any one community in tyria at a time.

There. No examples for us to try to compare to the conversation. No analogies. That’s the basics of the conversation without all the tangents.

edit: also, making a definite speculation about population comparison based purely on diet is impossible. There are too many unknowns and unaccounted for factors. You would need to know exactly how much maximum resource possibility is being practiced in each situation. We have none of that. That’s all I was trying to say, initially. There, now we can be friends, again.

An enemy like the centaurs that is pretty much looking to kill you all, though… that’s a very different kettle of fish. If they’re around, you either 1) have a sufficient force of defenders to protect you; 2) leave; 3) arm yourself, or 4) have no sense of self-preservation.

All of this is generally true. So I accounted for it earlier in my posts when I described how they might use their hunting rifles, pitchforcks, etc. for basic protection. But that doesn’t equate to a militarization. The homesteaders faced Native American tribes who did kill all whites they came across without always having the protection of an organized organized military force. They were brave. They defended themselves as best they could but often times their meager individual defense simply wasn’t enough. But they continued to settle. When they had the backing of a nearby military fort it definitely made life easier but not all homesteaders had that luxury.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

-I didn’t say there were more humans than charr. I said Krytans would likely outnumber Iron Legion. Also your analogy makes literally no sense. I cannot even fathom in what universe that would make sense. A given acre can produce more calories useable to an omnivore than to a carnivore. That’s all I’ve said and made educated guesses with. ///There’s no point continuing this line of thought if you cannot differentiate such a simple concept.

If you don’t have the ability to see the relationship between your educated guess on population based on diet and my example of two societies that have different diets but populations that defy your “eduacated” guess …… you may have to resort to personal attacks. /shrug

-So common people were still called to the land’s defense and still self-organized themselves for common defense. You haven’t refuted anything.

Your link supported what I already said, so I pointed it out. What you can’t seem to gasp is that common people defending themselves isn’t always a militia.

-I’m way too tired and frustrated from explaining simple things for this… The warlords are heavily armed, many of these villages are not. They have nothing to fight back with and in the places they can fight back, you have civil wars and oh look at that, civil wars are all over Africa where warlords and governments get pushback.

Again, you reiterate what I already said. Do you even know what your point is anymore?

-You are completely not understanding the point. They were fighting to conquer and then rule. They were fighting over borders because those borders determined who controlled the resources. In the case of centaur in GW2 and the Plains tribes in the American West it is completely different because they don’t give a flying kitten about borders and are trying to drive the humans/settlers out. If such simple concepts elude you this discussion is never going to go anywhere.

You seem to have trouble keeping basic points of conversation straight.

-It makes sense for people to organize a militia in the absence or lacking of any other protective presence, specifically in the case such as this where the enemy doesn’t want to conquer and rule but to displace or at worst (and nearly as likely) kill. Has this still not gotten through to you? The point there was that if the Seraph aren’t doing their jobs and these are lands held by nobles there is no reason for the nobles to not have their own hired guards to defend their property if not an organized militia from the commoners.

I makes sense to do so yet doesn’t always happen for a variety a reasons. “If such simple concepts elude you this discussion is never going to go anywhere”.

-The peasantry in GW2 appears to be much better off than those in feudal Europe. Unless you are implying that the common person who can own a farm or shop cannot even afford a bow and some arrows there is no way they wouldn’t organize some kind of defense if Seraph are insufficient. Again, we are not talking about a medieval lord marching his army into a neighboring lord’s territory so he can rule over conquered peoples. We are talking about a hostile race of barbarians who will kill you if you do not get out of the way fast enough. We see tons of refugees, which would make up the people running from the fighting, and we also see people sticking it out in contested areas. The only reason these people would be sticking it out is because they either can’t leave (highly unlikely if so many others have been able to) or they feel secure enough to do so. There is just no logical reason for people standing in the face indiscriminate destruction to lie down and take it when they know what is going to happen.

They may not be able to afford it. they may not have the training. They may try to lay low and hope the troubles doen’t find them. Any number of reasons that happen in RL.

-IRL Africa there are militias that fight back the warlords. What do you think all those kitten civil wars are? I have no idea why you keep pointing to Africa as a glimmering beacon of “no militias” when the place is overrun with them.

I’m done. I cannot explain things in more drawn out simplistic words.

Clearly you’ve proven that all villages fight back against the warlords so that they are only victimized after they’ve lost a battle. /eyeroll You can’t explain things when you constantly build strawmen to rebut rather than address what I am actually saying. Or maybe you build the starwmen because you can’t address them. To clarify, I’m not saying militias never happen. What I have said is that they don’t always happen for a variety of reasons. You can’t win this one because I have such a simple truth on my side.

Thiefs and Greatswords !

in Thief

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I have no idea how greatsword would fit in the Thief/Assassin archetype but rifle wouldn’t…

GS-Conan the barbarian was a rogue at one point in his carreer.

Rifle- Snipers/shot gun bandit

Conan the Barbarian was a barbarian…‘rogue’ just means a vagabond or scoundrel.

Sneaking around, killing and stealing seems pretty scoundrelous.
What the Lonewolf said. But the pistols show that even our thieves can simply be “scoundrels” without needing to be ninjas or assassins. And barbarians can be a thief/rogue class. They were in AoC. leather armor, sneaky, and capable of wielding two handed swords.

Barbarian: One of the rogue classes

Attachments:

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Now that I think about it. That it is even logistically feasible for these refugees to abandon their farms and move to DR implies that Kryta has enough surplus from existing food production that it can afford to not only sustain the burgeoning numbers in DR but also do so through the loss of farms to the centaurs that is creating refugees. I mean, is there some famine or food shortage I’ve missed somehow besides localized supply shortages? The majority of complaints I see from them in DR is about being displaced, not being hungry. From my perspective, just looking at crop production, Kryta would appear to be doing extremely well currently. Again, unless I am missing something.

I don’t think you’re missing anything here. kryta seems to be producing quite a bit of food. We touched a bit on it in This thread

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Yes but there are simple facts that you cannot get around. You can ////and movings of the world that aren’t directly told to us we are left to infer from what basic facts we do know and can surmise.

There is a flaw in taking implications too far. By stating that there are more humans than charr simply based on diet while remaining ignorant of other pertinent information is irresponsible. I can take this logic and claim that a small village on the coast of the meditaranian is more populous than Chicago simply because they like sausage and hotdogs in Chicago while the village has a meditaranian diet. It is an illogical extreme.


I have no idea what you’re trying to get at. Mandatory militia laws were most certainly a thing.

“With the decay of the feudal system and the military revolution of the sixteenth century, the militia began to become an important institution in English life.” Other than that, it says peasants were called to service during larger wars and the militia was the responsibility of the nobles to organize. This doesn’t speak to the point.

Especially on the edge of a frontier or in a war zone where the main military force (Seraph in this case) /////mean, you are making some awfully kittenumptions in how cavalier people living in spitting distance of Centaur raids are with their lives.

This is called ‘forming a posse’. It isn’t an organized militia. seems to confirm what I said when I wrote: “settlements may just respond with their hunting rifles/swords/daggers/pitchforks as needed and able.”

_"It’s one thing to have largely non-militarized civilians in Shaemoor, Beetletun, and maybe even Ascalon Settlement given how big and fortified it is. However for all of the smaller settlements ///////threat first hand (because we do know the centaur raid pretty far and wide in Kryta) would not be driven to organize.

We see it happen in a lot of those little villages in Africa. Warlords run through villages, take the food, kidnap the kids and commit atrocities. The villages remain unorganized and victimized. You may not understand it but we can plainly see that it does happen.

Also, again no. Nobles, at least in Europe, came about as wealthy land holders. "The systems //////thinking about this. This isn’t two nations fighting over borders. These are different societies fighting for living space.

The different societies of mainland Europe weren’t all simply pettily fighting over borders for borders sake. Early on especially they were after the resources of those borders and those resources could mean the difference between life and death during a hard winter.

Your view of feudalism is…odd. The feudal lords protected their holdings insofar as someone would protect their own property. The symbiosis was entirely bore out of necessity /////have a levied military force protecting it. Heck, the minister’s have proven this with their own “Ministry Guard”.

So it makes more sense for them to rely on a military force…… that’s not their own self contained organized militia. Something like that would give feudal lords pause at least.

The bandits are being paid. There is no shortage of the poor and disenfranchised in Kryta. ////the frontier. So quite simply, either the Seraph are enough for a location or they aren’t and the local citizens by all logic should have picked up the slack.

Yes, bandits are helped out due to the power struggle. No one seems to be paying the peasants to get armed.

Seriously though, you do not need a warrior or raiding culture to have either a militia or mechanism to bolster law enforcement and protection.

It helps quite a bit. But there is no guarantee that there will be a miltia even in the face of great danger, as we see in RL Africa.

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

We can extrapolate very basic things which can tell us a lot, the type of species they are and it’s dietary needs plus the general organization of the society. It also goes beyond supply lines. I’m talking about the supply base and what can be inferred from the biology, society, and generalized total holdings.

Numbers on population aren’t a basic thing though. They depend on too many unaccounted for factors.


Also, I call bs on that. People who settled the American West starting even before the pushes into the Ohio Valley were armed for self-protection at the least. I think there is too much a emphasis of “oh, hey, military stuff, that’s like, a charr thing, so humans wouldn’t even think about self defense!”. Bull //resources besides West. At a fundamental level, population and resource pressures push people to colonize. It’s a lot more complex and a lot less avaricious than the popular tropes put out, which are heavily influenced by the views on American expansion west which was still primarily driven by homesteaders being incentivized by the crowded conditions of the East.

You’ve pointed out instances where people armed themselves. I’ve accounted for that since they are free to defend themselves against threats that arise. But that doesn’t neccesarily make them a militia. Plenty of American settlers had rifles for hunting and self protection without being militia. Meanwhile, plenty of peasants in Europe couldn’t afford firearms so relied on traveling peacekeepers that traveled rural roads. And local peacekeepers wich were little more than one guy chosen to carry the only sword in town. Not everybody had the same means.

tl;dr
At this juncture, humanity appears to be portrayed contrary to historical reality and logical sense or at the least what we see just appears off. It appears off and I’m not sure how much of that is for gameplay reasons and how much it is legit lore that civilians living in a war zone would rather get killed empty handed than participate in a militia.

Also, if you can’t tell. This whole situation seriously annoys me.

Historical reality varies greatly. Look at the feudal systems of Europe. There was the constant threat of attack and raids. The “nobility” developed because it was their job to protect the borders. While the working class had the job of providing for the nobility which allowed the nobility to concentrate on better securitity. A fine idea steeped in symbiosis but, human nature being what it is, caused the symbiotic relationship to become a caste system and the workers essentially became servants and slaves over time.

All of your examples reference communities removed from the feudal customs. But that doesn’t reflect Krytan society.

edit: Look at the bandits. They’re human, they have a raiding culture and they are all armed to the teeth. Not everybody in every small village and settlement in history had a raiding or warrior culture.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

Absolutely. The charr have an inherent disadvantage as far as supply lines go. It’s just without controlled variables or a solid base to start from, we can’t extrapolate population size.

I’d guess the reason all human populations aren’t militia is because humans just aren’t geared to mostly be militant. Sure they can be violent and unreasonable like anyone else but they don’t have the chain of command bred into them the way the charr do. And they don’t have that aggressiveness bred into them either. Sans religious fervor, human expansion tends to be more about greed and opportunity than appreciating combat for combats sake, as can be seen in the charr and norn. A lot of people in the smaller settlements seem to have very little desire to militarize. So that seems to echo certain cultures in RL. Small villages may depend on local peacekeepers, while other more out of the way settlements may just respond with their hunting rifles/swords/daggers/pitchforks as needed and able. Without actively looking for some battle to fight in an effort to just get through life.

(edited by Dustfinger.9510)

Thiefs and Greatswords !

in Thief

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I have no idea how greatsword would fit in the Thief/Assassin archetype but rifle wouldn’t…

GS-Conan the barbarian was a rogue at one point in his carreer.

Rifle- Snipers/shot gun bandit

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

I think the problem there is that in order to go by support population per usable acre, we have to assume both races have reached the maximum possible number that their territory can support. But there is too “empty” land in tyria to have a solid base to start from.

Would it be good to use ghosts against ED?

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

the dead and defeated Ascalonian guard arose once more, their spirits animated by the power of Adelbern’s sword

Their spirits are only memories, the lingering presence of a past that cannot let go of the present

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Movement_of_the_World

So it seems both the living and the recently defeated dead were risen in the foefire.

Thiefs and Greatswords !

in Thief

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

The only weapons that the Thief class should get, that are fitting for the class /// I find it already wrong, that Thieves got Pistols and would replace them any day with Crossbows
http://d3strategyguide.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Demon-Hunter-Dual-Wielding-Crossbows.png
Thats the image I’m thinking about, when I’ve crossbows and thief in my mind

Not all thieves are the same archtype. So there really is no weopons that are ‘fitting’ because the classes don’t have hard lore like in other game universes. So a pistol thief is easily a dashing rogue in contrast to a dagger thief which may be a stealthy assassin.

Charr vs Human vs Asura vs Norn

in Lore

Posted by: Dustfinger.9510

Dustfinger.9510

And it appears I was wrong about them planning the assault at the same time. They knew they needed to be able to focus their resources in order to do it.

;-)