Guild Wars 2

Jerus.4350:

No, the expansion isn’t incentive at all in this discussion. They’re asking for my money right now but not offering any reason. Why wouldn’t I sit on my money till release?

Maybe it isn’t as common practice as I thought, but god I don’t know why if you’re talking digital download. If you’re talking hard copies, well your incentive is to reserve it, so that if they’re out of stock on release you have yours. But, in EQ we always got some trinket of appreciation for the advanced purchase. So maybe my view is just tainted.

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

Yep there is you get to try it before everyone else during beta events + a little title which granted is not going to change anyone’s life. But actually I am happy they’re not giving away anything spectacular if you prepurchase, especially in light of there being a lack of information on what the expansion offers. the worst that could happen is having people pre purchase the expansion for goodies only to find out they dont appreciate the actual content when its released.

I honestly dont see this aspect as a bad thing.

Cyninja.2954:

Michael.8562:

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

Why should people that bought the core game in the last six months be compensated in any way? Did they get to enjoy the core game in that six months? How were they lured? It’s true that the core game is required to play the expansion. If they got the game during one of the sales then they’ve done extremely well in terms of cost. If they haven’t played the game during that time well – their problem – the world turns.

The core game gets “gifted” to you when buying HoT. So no, you do not require the core game.

Also the changes FAQ stating you require the GW2 core game leading people to believe they need the base game and expansion.

And then we wonder why Arenanet arent open with their communication as much as we would like.

Once again ANY change even a positive one gets used against them. Because lets be honest here this was actually a positive change. These people you’re claiming were so brutally cheated instead of spending anywhere between $60 to $110 in order to buy the game and expansion now they get to buy both for just $50 to $60 I am not sure why you feel even though this part didnt effect you personally in any way, you have to feel angry for them. They actually are much better off.

Cyninja.2954:

Killthehealersffs.8940:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

This means that people what already have the core game should have been getting this expansion at a reduced price. Why is this so hard to grasp???

Newer players wont be able to eploit the lack of DR to maximizse their rewards in specific maps (like human starting area) :P
(or the ghost pepper exploit :PP)

New ppl wont benefit for the lower gold>gem cost , like we do from the start of the game) :P

Newer players wont be able to see the Marriornete fight or the Tower or the LA fight (and if they see it it will be in a personal istances with 5 other npcs (or protect one lane) :P

And what about the new players who got lured into buying the game in the last 6 months thanks to false advertisment? That being that the core game is required?

They got none of the above too and get shafted.

If you bought the game 6 months ago you had 6 months to play it, you were’nt exactly cheated especially if you bought it for $10

BUT once again Arenanet said they intend to freely upgrade anyone who bought the game “recently” just contact support. How far back recently stretches I have no clue.

But this isnt idle talk either its already happening:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3aege1/a_follow_up_to_my_post_that_blew_up_out_of/

Cyninja.2954:

You continue to missunderstand that the pricing is only part of the problem. The entire approach is what set people off and got this going.

And yes, people will go nuts when they feel cheated or betrayed or taken for suckers. The cash value over this is more often then not a side factor.

Me personally I could care less if the expansion costs 50,100 or 150,- $. I can afford to pay any price. What I do care about is not getting **** on and be expected to take it and ask for more.

Yeah but what happens when people feel betrayed and cheated when in truth they’re not?

Arenanet didnt do anything different then any other company except for instead of charging extra for the base game they’re giving away for free. how is that betraying or cheating customers exactly?

Ringsound.7806:

Galen Grey.4709:

Who is forcing you to rebuy the game again? they’re not charging you anything for it. This is all people twisting things to suite their arguments, Arenanet made it pretty clear the bundled core game is free. Arguing you’re being forced to pay for it would be akin anyone arguing that after being forced to buy FFXIV 1.0 they were then forced to pay for it again when they released 2.0!

nah, i have FFXIV 1.0 and i dont have to buy FFXIV again when 2.0 was release
and i can buy only the expansion upgrade for 3.0

yeah, of coz the core game come with HoT is a “free bonus”
which this one of the worst marketing strategy
i do agree “when come to money, there are no friend” but keeping a happy customer is the key for longer success

I know and that is exactly my point. FFXIV gave 2.0 free to FFXIV 1.0.

Arenanet are giving GW2 free with HoT but people are insting they have to pay for Gw2 when they buy HoT when they dont need it which is incorrect just as it would be incorrect saying you had to pay again for FFXIV!

General Health.9678:

Galen Grey.4709:

I honestly dont understand how this all has started because on the whole Arenanet are really great.

GW2 is great, Anet are pretty rubbish.
They should really take the $100 I’m going to spend on the expansion and use some of it to investigate why I, along with many other people, think this.

thanks that really helped me understand how this all started

Cyninja.2954:

They decide to bundle their game after changing the FAQ of the expansion which shows up that they did a cash grab with the last few sales.

Or they changed the FAQ after they came up with the idea of bundling the game for free. We dont know which one it was but lets always assume the worst!

Cyninja.2954:

They deliver an expansion with near no customer service for players who have stuck with them for over 3 years (and longer if coming from GW1).

Arenanet did not “decide to be nice”. More than likely the decision to bundle the expansion witht eh core game was made a while back and they tried to figure a way to maximise their revenue. If they really wanted to be nice, this is what they would have done:

Just like every other MMO developer ever but it seems Arenanet are held to a different much higher standard, not sure if thats a good thing

Cyninja.2954:

- offered HoT as upgrade for 40,-$ (no extra character slot)
- offered HoT as upgrade for fourty-five $ (1 extra character slot, no other bonuses)
- offered HoT + core game at 50,-$
- offered HoT delux edition at 75,- $ (same as now)
- offered HoT premium edition at 100,-$ (same as now)
- added some titles or other useless stuff for veteran players to feel good. the fact that there is not even a title or anything is saddening

That, would have been “nice” or good customer retention.

So after all the content they gave us for free for 3 whole years they deserve to be attacked all out over $10 ? your HoT nice edition is litterally $10 cheaper and you’re happy to defend square enix and calling them the role model of how to threat customers even when they charge 50% more every single month then the amount of money you have issue with (thats $540 for 3 years) + $40 for the expansion. once again Arenanet get a different much higher standard, why?

also I am not sure this will make you happy but at least it should not sadden you as you say because rejoice there is indeed a title if you pre-order its the “Maguuma Trailblazer” title

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-is-available-for-pre-purchase/

Personally I agree a free character would be nice, I think they should keep their $50, well they really have no choice there now since they have sold prepurchases. But they should give a free character slot with the standard edition too. Hopefully people will be willing to bridge their difference over $5

Jerus.4350:

Offair.2563:

I am still trying to figure out the rage about getting a core game copy for free. People surely didnt mind to get a 2nd or 3rd account when it was on sale for 10$ ish. So why moan about a freebie?

And yes Anet are people too, just like us. Maybe it is a bit over priced but none of you have been forced to pay more then the game it self.

There, my 2 cents on this matter.

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

If I had intentions of buying the expansion (which with the current amount of content even $5 to me is too much as I simply don’t intend to play it) I surely wouldn’t be pre-ordering it because there’s no reason to, why pull my wallet out now when I get the exact same thing if I pull it out at launch.

Why should they? inst the actual expansion incentive enough? Gw2 didnt give any incentives with its standard edition either yet there was no uproar over it!

I dont know where this is coming from, standard editions dont have goodies they’re just the product, thats what deluxe and collectors editions are for after all!

care to point at all these awesome insentives to sweeten the pot other MMOs do with their pre-order programs? because I am not seeing any really. Only thing I can find is Warlords of draenor which offers a instant level 90 option though it wasnt even a pre-purchase reward since its still available now and I have a feeling they did it more for them then for the players considering mists of pandaria had the lowest sales of any WoW expansion I guess it was a good move for them to include the instant level up so that people who skipped over that expansion could still buy and enjoy Dreanor by using that instant LeveL up to bridge the gab skipping over pandaria caused.

Cyninja.2954:

Which is an entire different complaint. You are mushing two complaints together.

One being the expansion might not be worth 50,-$, the other being that we are forced to rebuy the core game (not to mention all the people who got lured into buying the game recently).

Who is forcing you to rebuy the game again? they’re not charging you anything for it. This is all people twisting things to suite their arguments, Arenanet made it pretty clear the bundled core game is free. Arguing you’re being forced to pay for it would be akin anyone arguing that after being forced to buy FFXIV 1.0 they were then forced to pay for it again when they released 2.0!

as for those who bought recently they already said whoever bought recently can get their account changed to the pre-order.

Cyninja.2954:

The reason people didn’t complain about square is that their expansion was not tainted by such short term busniess moves.

Not sure how character slots work in FFXIV, but that’s another 10,- $ right there. So essentially we are already talking about a 60,-$ expansion which forces you to pay for the “free” base game.

ohh but it is! If you use only 1 character sub will cost you $12.99. If you want more then one then sub goes up to $15 and that gives you 8 characters. I am not sure if there is the option for more characters at that point. when FFXIV 1.0 launched it was $10 sub + $3 for every character not sure if they retained that $3 per month for extra additional character beyond 8.

but even with just 8 characters it means you’re paying $2 extra a month which come to $24 a year which in 3 years means you’d have paid $72 which would be equal to 7 characters in Gw2 thats not even mentioning that you dont really need to pay a single cent to unlock a character slot really.

But again everyone is fine with what FFXIV do even though what they do is orders of magnitute worst and Arenanet get it for trying to be nice and give away something for free.

Cyninja.2954:

It’s just a LOT of small things adding up.

Would people be fine with any 1 of the following?:

- 50,- $ price tag
- no character slot
- luring under false pretense (core game being required)
- disparity between new accounts (5 character slots+bank) vs old account upgrading

$50, why not? thats what others charge! actually FXIV will charge you $10 more since the same they’re selling expansion + game for $60 not $50.

They’re not giving a character slot either

there was no luring under false pretences. 1 the core game is required that hasnt changed + anyone who actually bought the game because they thought they would need to buy it anyway they’re upgrading for free even though strictly speaking they still got value out of their purchase.

Cyninja.2954:

I’m sure on their own people would stomach it. All of them together is what is causeing the uproar. And that’s not even dealing with probable lack of content.

what probably lack of content? why is it probable exactly?

I honestly dont understand how this all has started because on the whole Arenanet are really great.

I’ve played so many MMOs of all different business model not one comes close to what Anet have done with Gw2.

I dont know do people forget this easily?

I have never had any MMO company send me gifts for buying in game currency, Arenanet did it more then once.

I never had an MMO release so many free content updates while they worked on an expansion

Implemented so many things the community asked starting from the first month when they implemented crafting from the bank

Living story, gifted it free to anyone who spend 5 seconds to log in the 2 week span they ran in.

Developed a whole game with in a game just to have a laugh and enjoy april fool with their players

Changed their whole content release strategy, more then once to make their players happy

Yet we really seem to have gotten to a point people look for any reason where they get to raise their pitchforks against Arenanet. Its incredible, people are specifically being hurtful and even trying to jusitfy they have a right to hurt employees or a subset their of at least because of their outrage and over what? because Arenanet decided to give for free once again something others generally charge for? I really dont understand people any longer… perhaps arenanet should just stop being nice altogether.

They got attacked for giving the LS season 2 for free and only charge those who dont log in at least once when they’re active and they got attacked for that while I have absolutely never heard people attacking The Secret world , Defiance , dc online or any other MMO that charges or DLCs even though they charge far more then what Gw2 charged for its living story.

Now they decide to bundle the game for free with the expansion and again they’re attacked quite brutally, while others who also bundle their core game with their expansion and charge $10 dont even get a mention.

Arenanet decide to be nice and we find a way how to twist their actions and make them seem like this bad guy who cares about nothing but money.

Article linked by OP really made me sad. Seriously I just cannot believe what I am seeing. Arenanet for the good of everyone just stop being nice we just dont deserve it.

Cyninja.2954:

Galen Grey.4709:

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

How does this compare to this situation? I’d be fine with getting 10,- $ off for already owning the base game (which is nothing else than paying 10,-$ more for the core game).

I’m not even going to comment on you comparing this situation to a company who pulled their new MMO and completely remade it and rereleased it. That’s some way more customer friendly business right there compared to the last year of anet.

It compares like this:
instead of charging $60 for the expansion and the game like Square enix are Arenanet decided to provide a better deal and instead of charging $10 extra they’re not charging anything.

so yeah you could argue they should remove the cost of the core game since you dont need it but since they’re charging $0 that will not change anything .

Many.8419:

Unloveableone.6082:

Many.8419:

Sorry but no.
Yes, designers are doing amazing work. And this work was destroyed one minute because of someone making a terrible marketing move. They should blame those responsible inside their own company. They are parts of the same company and the company is blamed as a whole.

I feel no pity here. This is bussiness. The company failed and company will take responsibility as a whole.

Glad you support the harassment of devs that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Shows a lot about you my friend.
I’m glad the feelings of those that have created GW2 means less to you than an extra 10 dollars.
How immature.

I’m not your friend. I do not support harassment. If this lady from OP feels being harassed how about taking advice anet always gives their players? Block and report and let their support team solve the issue. They are not children, those are grown up ppl doing their jobs. A company made a bad decision, now is the time to fix it. Emotional tweets won’t help with fixing this issue.

You’re making huge assumption that the company made a bad decision. Did it ever occure to you that perhaps its players raging that are in the wrong?

Just look at FFXIV. They did something similar. for $10 extra with their expansion you can get the core game. Its a sensible thing to do since it gives you a chance to get new customers you would not otherwise get. No one is angry with Square Enix for doing this. So at which point does this really become this really bad decision? when they charge $5 extra? when they charge $2? or when they charge nothing exactly?

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

can we stop saying we’re only getting a single map? Even worst everyone it taking that as a fact. We know for a fact that is not true.

Actually what we know for a “fact” is that they have said that there will be multiple maps. Something claimed is not a fact until sufficient evidence is present to prove it.

I believe them.

That doesn’t make it a fact. Anet has specifically stated that pre live announcements are always subject to change. Until anything hits live nothing said about it is a factual description of what it will be on live.

Actually we do know there are multiple maps beyond their claim which should be more then enough. Like I said we know there are 5 maps for sure.

1. being Verdant Brink
2 being Lost Precipice *1
3 being Gilded Hollow *1
4 the Forgotten City *2
5 Dont know the name *2

*1 http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=36174
“the guild halls are physical places that exist on the world map”

*2http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=36174
“Clearing these areas will be tied to the maps they are adjacent to”
“The first is the Guilded Hollow, a monolithic cavern beneath the jungle that connects to the Forgotten City (which can be seen in a few of the previously released trailers)”
“he other guild is the Lost Precipice, which lies in the Northwest on the border between the jungle and the Northern Maguuma Wastes”

Beyond that they also stated there are 3 biomes. So it stands to reason each biome should have at least 1 map. I know there is the theory its just 1 map with 3 biomes but thats EXTREMELY unlikely. I do believe this video for example proves thats not the case: https://youtu.be/KeF7GjsGJgM?t=3268
If it was just 1 map with 3 biomes how come when he falls beyond a certain amount he is teleported back up. Should he hit the ground with there still being a cave right under that?

can we stop saying we’re only getting a single map? Even worst everyone it taking that as a fact. We know for a fact that is no true.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns
Multiple open world jungle maps² made up of three distinct “biomes”

http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=35650&storypage=2
“We were able to confirm that the Heart of Maguuma is a region that will consist of multiple maps”

Thats also ignoring the fact multiple interviews have mentioned adjecent maps to the guild halls not to mention that the guild halls themselves are maps that need to be concured to unlocked an instance version the guild can use.

We dont know how many maps there are we know they’re at least 5 and most certainly more then 1.

Its 3 biomes for crying out loud. No one said each map has all 3 biomes either. It makes more sense to have multiple maps per biome rather then multiple biomes per map after all.

Koviko.3248:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Koviko.3248:

I’m not saying that I won’t purchase HoT. I will definitely 100% be playing HoT when it’s released.

I just don’t feel comfortable with my pre-purchase, anymore.

So you are 100% you are going to buy HoT when it is released. You bought HoT before it is released but you will have it when it is released. So if you are 100% sure then I don’t see the problem. You bought something you just said you were 100% sure you were going to buy. You just don’t get to use it yet aside from beta.

I’m secretly hoping the price will drop by then. Maybe there’s a $10 premium on there for beta access, which I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of anyway. I’ve been invited to the betas before but they never fit my schedule.

If your motivation for the refund is hoping the price will drop if you wait for release because of the drama thats currently going on I personally think its a bad idea.

You’re going to get in a lot of hasle for nothing.

Keep in mind what we have is a pre-purchase I am no lawyer so I may be wrong however from what I understand a prepurchase sales contract doesnt conclude until such time as they deliver the product. IE if they drop the price before release that would mean they took more money than they were entitled to which would make it theft. So legally they’d most likely be obliged to refund the difference at the very least or make the whole sales contract null and void (naturally you cannot change the terms of a contract on sidely)

In any case I very much doubt they’re going to lower the price (until its been out for a while) $50 is industry standard price now a days for expansions.

aspirine.6852:

Galen Grey.4709:

Koviko.3248:

I spent the 100 dollars thinking “oh, I get $50 in gems basically for free” without even realizing, “wait, I’m paying $50 for a tiny expansion.”

When I originally bought GW2, I got:

• dozens of fleshed out maps,
• several dungeons,
• multiple PvP & WvW maps,
• reworked classes from GW1, and
• a full personal story (and promise of a Living Story).

Now, for the same price, I’m getting much less. I don’t know… My first thought when I pre-purchased was that I was supporting a game that I love. Usually, I support the game with gems, though. I didn’t plan on participating in the beta because I’d like the gameplay to be fresh when it releases.

$50 of the money I’m spending to support the game doesn’t give me gems and doesn’t give me $50 worth of content…

I’d honestly just like to get a refund, for now. I’d hate to think that a company I’ve trusted for so long would just run off with my money even though I’m not happy with my purchase.

:/

not sure if it will make you feel better or not but the truth is we have no idea how big or small HoT really is. any one claiming HoT is tiny or huge is just stating their own personal opinion.

Until such time Arenanet talk about the new maps, how many events / adventures etc.. are to be expected, length of the personal story, what dungeons / fractals are to be expected, what the new challenging group content consists of, how many world bosses the expansion contains etc.. everything is simple conjecture.

Well the fact they have not boasted about how big it’s going to be makes me believe that it isnt.

everyone is free to believe what they want to believe but believe alone doesnt make it true. For example a lot of people believed we would not get an expansion ever, that ls updates is all there is ever going to be. I am sure you remember the back and forth on the subject, yet that also didnt turn out to be the case

Additionally lets not forget they didnt talk about that feature yet so they didnt get a chance to boast either.

Like take guild halls as an example, until last week all we knew is we’re going to get guildhalls. One could have said based on your same argument that guildhalls would simply be one small building were guilds could gather with no additional functionality since they hadnt boasted about it.

Yet now we know that its not 1 small map but 2 full zones, which need to be captured through objectives, you can build additional buildings to expand functionality, we’re getting 3 new currencies associated with them, there is a full pvp arena include where you can fight guildies as well as other guilds, there will be an overhaul on guild consumables, new guild weapons, a new crafting professions specifically for guilds as well as decoration that can be earned in different ways including through overcoming challenges together.

Thats also without touching on guild missions that are yet to be revealed, could potentially still be even twice that!

but in anycase point is until arenanet talk about something its just impossible to know the extent of it.

Koviko.3248:

I spent the 100 dollars thinking “oh, I get $50 in gems basically for free” without even realizing, “wait, I’m paying $50 for a tiny expansion.”

When I originally bought GW2, I got:

• dozens of fleshed out maps,
• several dungeons,
• multiple PvP & WvW maps,
• reworked classes from GW1, and
• a full personal story (and promise of a Living Story).

Now, for the same price, I’m getting much less. I don’t know… My first thought when I pre-purchased was that I was supporting a game that I love. Usually, I support the game with gems, though. I didn’t plan on participating in the beta because I’d like the gameplay to be fresh when it releases.

$50 of the money I’m spending to support the game doesn’t give me gems and doesn’t give me $50 worth of content…

I’d honestly just like to get a refund, for now. I’d hate to think that a company I’ve trusted for so long would just run off with my money even though I’m not happy with my purchase.

:/

not sure if it will make you feel better or not but the truth is we have no idea how big or small HoT really is. any one claiming HoT is tiny or huge is just stating their own personal opinion.

Until such time Arenanet talk about the new maps, how many events / adventures etc.. are to be expected, length of the personal story, what dungeons / fractals are to be expected, what the new challenging group content consists of, how many world bosses the expansion contains etc.. everything is simple conjecture.

mistnmc.6243:

I’m totally ok with anet putting gw2 on a 1week discount %75 or %100
I’m totally ok with price being $50 for the expansion
I’m totally ok with expansion $50, expansion + gw2 bundled for $100, or even $75; but price of HoT = price of HoT + gw2 as an introductory offer (like your %50 discount offer) is plain stupid, and usually offers (sane and reasonable ones) doesn’t work like that.

What is the difference between buying the game seperately at 100% discount and the expansion seperately at $50

or buying both for $100 with a 50% discount?

its exactly the same thing why is one okey but not the other?

also just for clarity plenty of business do 50% introductory discounts. just google that and you’ll get nearly 1/2 a million hits.

mistnmc.6243:

I’m totally ok with price being $50 for HoT and a free SEPERATED gw2 account.

That would be a really bad move on Anet part. I guarantee you if they did that there will be millions of new cheap keys on sale on sites like G2A essentially cheating Anet out of millions in sales.

mistnmc.6243:

But an attitude like “if you want to upgrade your old account, too bad we won’t give you the bonus gw2 account for free because you’re not a new player but our old loyal player.” is not something I’m OK with.

ever business does that each time they do a promotion.

mistnmc.6243:

For people trying to rationalise this by thinking it as a sale: A sale is a TIME PERIOD which you can get something for cheap, or some extra freebies. This is not a sale, there is no time limit, you can buy HoT whenever you want, and still get gw2 as a bonus. Oh, sorry, you only get a bonus if you’re new player.

I am not rationalising it by thinking its a sale. I am using the sale argument for clarity. What this is a promotion. Sale is one way of having promotion. In this case the promotion involves giving away the core game for new accounts. And no you dont get the bonus only if you’re a new player. As a veteran you have the option of getting the bonus as long as you open a new account. No one is stopping you from buying HoT and create a new account and getting the same exact deal as a new player. What they’re doing and with good reason is seperating the two (core game and HoT) cause what would happen is people would take HoT and resell the core game. Keep in mind a lot of veterans already got a 2nd account. Those who thought a second account was a useful thing to have I am sure bought one when it was just $10 with very few exception. If you dont think a 2nd account is useful most likely what you’re going to do is resell it. Why keep something you dont value?

mistnmc.6243:

But I can totally understand anet. Well you veterans have already bought the game. Most of you are pretty much done with your gear and customisations. Anet already took much of your money. They are done with you. Why would they think of you? But new players on the other hand, they are juicy. They will need gems too! All those extra character / inventory / bank slots you have, new players don’t. You’re angry and feel frustrated? You’re going to uninstall your game? Oh please do so, they needed that server space for new players with money to spend anyway…

oh come on this is prepostrous. Why on earth wouldnt they care? dont veterans buy gems to? and even if that is not a factor dont the veteran’s $50 for HoT count as much as the $50 of the new player? On top of that who’s more likely to buy the ultimate edition in your opinion? someone who has been with the game since day 1 or the new guy/girl who 3 years 1/2 later still didnt think Gw2 is a good game to buy? and if all these reasons aren’t enough… there are 5 million+ existing Gw2 customers do you really think Anet thinks is an awesome idea to drive them all away by doing something unfair because they expect to sell more then 5 million copies to new customers who didnt think Gw2 is a good buy until today? Really?

I am sorry to say this is all envy and greed. People are mistakenly perciving that new people who buy HoT now are getting more then people who bought Gw2 before when in truth they’re getting exactly the same deal only new players getting a bit discounted like they did each and every time Anet discounted the core game.

Its absolutely not true that new players are get 5 character slots more then veteran. The veteran got those same 5 characters slots when they purchased the game. Same for every other feature of the core game.

Like I’ve been saying plenty of times this is exactly the same thing as any other discount.

Eklipse.2043:

I’m sorry, but to me it’s still cheating veterans. You better give me an incentive to purchase for the same amount I’ll be paying as a new customer for this expansion. Again, it’s great for new customer and it’s justified because they’ll receive HoT + core game for $50. What about current players? Why am I as a veteran forced to pay the same amount as someone new? They get more value from it by experiencing the core game plus expansion. Veterans already have the core game, so why are they forced to pay for something they already own? Again, regardless how the situation plays out it’s still cheating the vets when you look past said situation. Until a more reasonable price is announced for JUST the expansion, I’ll be passing on getting HoT.

Did you feel cheated each time a new person got gw2 for $10 when you paid at least 5 times that? I am going to assume your asnwer is no cause if its yes then thats a different issue So why are you feeling cheated now? if its okey for someone to get a 75% discount why is not okey to get 100% ? The $50 buys you HoT and thats what Anet is giving you both (new person / you) now to entice the new person to buy they added the 100% discount thing which makes total sense you dont need HoT if you dont have the core game. This isnt about giving stuff to people thats what the deluxe and ultimate editions are for. This is about getting new people to join the game. Naturally anyone who has not bought the game till now requires an extra nudge. there have been plenty of 75% discounts, free trails etc.. and all that was not enough to rope in those customers. Anet is hoping this deal might be attactive enough to rope them in. It is 100% designed for them.

Thing is this is totally Anet prerogative. They’re free to run any promotions they see fit. I cant understand why tying a promotion to a product sale makes is so evil while if the promotion is ran on its own then its okey. If they just discount the core game by 75% no one feels cheated even if they paid full price. if they give it for free with the expansion the world falls and people expect free stuff. Just look at everyone else. Expansion normally come in standard and deluxe / Collectors edition. The standard always carries just the base game its like expected, standard = bare minimum. Goodies always come in the deluxe+ editions… naturally thats what they’re for.

Test.8734:

Vayne.8563:

I am relatively sure I’ll have a lot of fun with it and that I’ll get at least 50 hours of entertainment out of it, which is you know, a buck an hour.

And you are sure about that because…? Have you been told how many maps the expansion will have? How big each map will be? How many activities will be there? How many story instances there are in the game?

You don’t know any of those things. You are assuming everything will be bright and happy just because you want to assume everything will be bright and happy.

I cant answer for Vayne but for me I would be happy to pay $50 every 3 years if they release a map the size of cragstead as an expansion and keep doing what they have done the past 3 years. I may be in the minority perhaps, who knows, but I loved what they did with the living world. New stories and content to enjoy every 2 weeks alone is worth more then $17 a year. of course its going to be much more then a small cragstead map. We know for sure there is going to be 1 large map from the beta. The Guild halls reveal also clearly stated that the 2 guild halls are far apart, one in the northwest of the jungle the other is under the Forgotten Golden City. It also revealed that to get access to these guild halls you need to clear out objectives in their adjecent maps. This alone suggests a minimum of 3 maps not counting the guild hall maps themselves. Of course we know there are 3 biomes and somehow I doubt it will be a single map per biome but anyway thats all we know for sure. All that together for me is worth way more then $50 so much so I got the ultimate edition

MauricioCezar.2673:

Galen Grey.4709:

your 5% claim is bogus, truth is we dont know how big / small HoT is right now.

05% was a typo. I meant to write 25%, just like I did a little below.

What you don’t understand, is that a new brand game is a totally different thing than a expansion. For a expansion they already have pretty much everything done, they just need to"Expand" it.

Don’t get me wrong, I know it takes a lot of work and planning to do all the things we will get in the expansion, but it doesn’t reach even in anywhere in the world close to the big work that it was to build the whole game from zero.

you’re right you did quote 25% later on apologies for the misundertanding.

yes and no.. Yes they do have most of the development ready though naturally there will still be changes to that in order to release new features but obviously it will take less time to implement those then starting from scratch.

Its also no though because art assets, story, voice acting, texturing, world building etc.. has to essentially start from scratch. I very much doubt they’re going to use existing assets. Development and art creation goes on in parallel so at the end of the day it will not be much faster creating new maps in an existing game then it will be on a new map if faster at all.

With that in mind it is also important to factor in some other elements mainly that they had 5 years to create the base game, around 2 – 3 years to create the expansion. They had all the team focused on creating the game those 5 years while post launch their teams got highly fractured… maintance, pvp, living story, porting to chinese, holiday events etc.. Simply speaking it is unrealistic to expect an expansion to be as big as the core game. They had less time to work on it with less people.

TheDraco.3965:

I will look you straight in the eye and tell you that given the combination of the track record of anet’s “content” and what they’ve shown us of the expansion, that asking for 50$ is hilariously laughable.

This is really proposturous they’ve released free content every single month for 3 years, for a big chunk of time every 2 weeks while working on an expansion, which other company does that? It always 2 – 3 releases of small content while waiting 1-2 years for an expansion and we’re using that to claim anet content release is dodgy? Even worst using that against them so that the one time they as for money we try to make it sound like we should pay them less? I guess whoever invented the saying no good deed goes unpunshed was absolutely right. If they had left us starving for content for 2 – 3 years we would have considered them to be MORE productive then if they spend 2 – 3 years releasing content ever month / 2 weeks. Unbelievable!

NEOCROM.8957:

Galen Grey.4709:

NEOCROM.8957:

“So, new players are more important to you than the fan base that’s been funding you with gem store purchases for the last few years? Nice to know. Don’t get me wrong, im glad you’re throwing them a bone. Nothing irks me quite like buying something only for that something to be discontinued and re added with a bazillion perks/additions for the same cost (In this case, an expansion). But uhm, your current fan base, and the ones who’ve stuck around.. They should matter too.”
Found this comment in the wall-o-texts there. This guy deserves medal of honor.

So you and that poster are suggesting we outlaw promotions now? And if we do excatly who will benefit? all you’re saying here is if I dont get nice things, no one should get nice things!

Suggesting that Anet isnt fair with the price. The price may be fair for newcomers, but what about vets? What about ppl who bought the game 3 weeks ago for example? 50$ for an expansion AND the core game we already have, and not even some gems in that absurd price.

Its a promotion, the core game is free. So even if you’re a new comer you’re paying $50 for the expansion alone. If the price isnt fair for you, its not fair for them either. It cannot be both at once. The mistake you’re doing here is you’re seeing this as a bundle when its not. This is no different then someone who bought the core game for $10 during a sale and then later bought the expansion for $50. You’re arguing that for such a person the price of the expansion is right while for us who paid full at launch its overpriced. I am sure you can see how it would be incorrect to evaluate the value of the expansion based on how much you paid for the core game. Its the same thing with the only difference being instead of 75% discount Anet are now giving 100% discount as an insentive to sell the expansion.

As for those who bought the games 3 weeks ago, they should contact support and have it changed to a pre-purchase. But seriously people this is starting to look more like a lets use the save the “children” excuse politicians like to us to get more stuff for us.

jacim.5904:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

The fact that you are giving away the game for free is a slap to the face to every single one that supported your game buying it, I can understand it being reduced in price over time but this, is unacceptable.

ohh come on, its fine if they sell the game away for $10 but a slap in the face if they give it away with kitten purchase?

Hachiman.2470:

It is just to illustrate the point, if they gave the game for free even for a week the game would probably die as I am sure you’re not the only one who would open a gazillion accounts. but back on subject it just goes to show the issue here isnt one of being cheat its one of misguided envy.

Let me put it another way.. what if they sold 2 versions one for $50 that has just the expansion and one that includes the base game that sells for $100 … everyone would be fine with that right?

now consider as an introductory offer they put a 50% discount on the bundle that includes the core game. Is this okey? is this something to feel cheated about? and if yes why? why is it okey to put a 75% discount on something but not a 50% on something else?

Thing is we want HoT thats what we’re paying $50 for, and Veteran or new thats what we’re getting. The core game is there for conviniance. We never cared about what Anet did with the core game before, they could discount it as much as they wanted, why does it have to make a difference when they bundle it with something we want?

The way they have packaged this expansion gives the short end of the stick to newer players too. I bought another account a couple of months ago when it was at 75% off for my wife.

This essentially means I’ll have to spend $60+ to get the same exact game. There is no way I would have purchased it for 75% discount when I could have just waited a little while longer and get it bundled with the expansion. It’s a disservice to the newer players who bought the game two months ago.

On top of that, by not openly letting the community know how you intend to sell the game/content you trick players into purchasing what they think is a discount just to turn around and offer it for an even greater discount months later.

I get it, these discounts are intended to bring in new players and what better way to do that then to continually change the price so new players feel like it’s a good deal. With these practices it would not surprise me if in a few months after the release they offer the expansion at a 50% discount that includes the game and at that point I’m sure the newer players will be wondering why they bought it when they did. ANet is continually undercutting itself to replenish it’s player base which works but is essentially just a band-aid.

They already said they are going to convert people who recently bought the game so contact support and good luck.

Altapir.2571:

Wesley.4590:

Maybe we need an analogy here.

Imagine walking into a hardware store to buy some nails. The shopkeeper asks you if you already own a hammer, because what are nails without one?
You answer that you already purchased a hammer from him a few years ago. The shopkeeper says: “Great! So you don’t need one.” He then tells you about the sale they have now, where if you didn’t already own a hammer you would get one for free with the nails. But since you already have one you just get the nails for the same price a new customer would get the nails plus a new hammer.

In this scenario, would you be completely kittened-off and demand either a discount on the nails or a new hammer for free with your nails as a returning customer as well?

Flawed logic. It would be a valid point if they offered the extra hammer to me aswell. But they don’t. A new customer will get nails AND hammer, but when the clerk see my face he says “hey, I sold you a hammer 3 years ago, so no free hammer for you”

And that would be the right thing to do for that poor ironmonger cause if he gives everyone who buys nails free hammers regardless if they own one what will happen is most of those 3 million or so nail buyers will run off to the G2A of Iron mongery and sell those 3 million hammers for a discount the iron monger cant possibly match cheating him out of millions just for being nice.

Eklipse.2043:

The thing is, veterans like myself are upset that they have to pay for something they already own. A perfect example is this:

I buy a computer and things are nice, then the company I buy it from down the line has a new video card I can upgrade it with. However, in order to get this new card, I have to purchase another computer that has this card installed. It’s currently the only way to get this card and they refuse to sell me the card without buying another computer.

To me, that’s bad business, you don’t treat your current customers like this unless you want a PR nightmare which seems to be what’s going to happen. It’s great for new customers, but for older customers it’s nickel and diming. If they offer something that can offset the amount I’m paying the expansion for with gems or something to justify the price, I’d be ok with it. Currently it’s cheating veteran players regardless how you sugarcoat it.

This will sound wierd cause we’re dealing with phyical objects that have cost prices but ignoring the wierdness what we have here is a vendor who is trying to sell video cards and figures some people just dont buy video cards because they dont have PCs to stick them in. In order to overcome their issue they decide to offer a free PC with every video card. When you go to buy your video card you’re charged for the video card and given a free pc. Now you already have the PC so you chuck that aside since you dont need it, stick the video card in your PC and you’re done.

Provided they charge you just for the graphic card which is what Anet is doing here based on their statement why is that a problem?

Thing is people are assuming the Expansion costs $30 and everyone is just being charged $20 for the core game whether they need it or not but Anet has already said multiple times that, that is not whats happening here. Expansion costs $50, core game is free. This is a digital product, it would be hard to give away a free pc with every graphic card simply because there is a cost price with a physical pc thats why the scenario above sounds wierd but there is no such issue with digital products. It costs Anet nothing to give away the core game with the expansion without charging anything extra for the expansion and in return it might get them a few more customers they wouldnt otherwise get.

There is no veterans being cheated here. Just lucky new comers who get a great deal if they decide to pre-purchase HoT. Simply speaking one doesnt imply the other!

mrstealth.6701:

Galen Grey.4709:

its not an entirely different situation, its exactly the same thing. well with 100% discount instead of 75% of course. Lets say this week they do a promotion where everyone can get the game for free and next week they open pre-orders for HoT for $50. Isnt that exactly the same thing both in terms of previous promotion and what they actually did?

What you’re describing here is yet another entirely different situation. If they started giving away the core game free next week, I could get another core game account. I could get 20 core game accounts if I wanted them. With the current bundled package, I get nothing but HoT for $50.

The issue here is the disparity between two different versions of what is marketed and sold as the same package.

It is just to illustrate the point, if they gave the game for free even for a week the game would probably die as I am sure you’re not the only one who would open a gazillion accounts. but back on subject it just goes to show the issue here isnt one of being cheat its one of misguided envy.

Let me put it another way.. what if they sold 2 versions one for $50 that has just the expansion and one that includes the base game that sells for $100 … everyone would be fine with that right?

now consider as an introductory offer they put a 50% discount on the bundle that includes the core game. Is this okey? is this something to feel cheated about? and if yes why? why is it okey to put a 75% discount on something but not a 50% on something else?

Thing is we want HoT thats what we’re paying $50 for, and Veteran or new thats what we’re getting. The core game is there for conviniance. We never cared about what Anet did with the core game before, they could discount it as much as they wanted, why does it have to make a difference when they bundle it with something we want?

Linken.6345:

Yes but then you have 2 charges so you can charge your batteries faster and you can use either your new charger or old charger to start charging them aswell.

Your example we should get upgrade for hot on either accounts of gw2 we have new or old it wouldent matter. ( and here is were that example fall apart)

Nope because what you’re missing is my existing charger is a rapid charger and the charger they give you is a regular drip charger. So yes I could use the charger bundled with the batteries but I will have a worst experiance then simply not using it at all which is what I would do in that situation.

rapid charger in this case is a veteran account with all goodies you get from playing for 3 years and the regular drip charger would be not applying hot to our existing account but rather opening a whole new account and starting from scratch for the new characters.

naturally no analogy is going to fit 100% dynamics are always a bit different in any case the point is not that you could use the charger even though you already own one. The point is the batteries are bundled with something you dont need at all but why should that make me angry?

Devin.3076:

I already bought the $100 version of the preorder without realizing how much I am being cheated. It seems more beneficial to rebuy the game and get a second account than preordering with my current account. A lot of people are talking about an extra character slot but I don’t even think that’s enough. I recently bought the core game for my boyfriend thinking that everyone would have to buy the expansion and the core game separately. If I had known he could have gotten the core game free I would have waited. You are punishing your loyal customers. I hope that you do reevaluate what you are doing and also compensate the people who have already preordered an upgrade to their current account.

Anet already said they are going to do that. If you bought the account recently for your bf just contact support they’ll convert it to a hot pre-purchase.

mrstealth.6701:

It’s an entirely different situation than the sales on the base game we’ve seen already. When the base game is put on sale, existing players have no reason to buy it. It doesn’t offer anything, unless you want an extra account. New players buying this are just getting the game at a lower price, which is something that happens with any game some time after release.

What we have with the expansion pricing, is something that every existing player has a reason to buy. And every player that does buy it has to get the same bundled deal. But only new players actually get the benefit of the bundled deal. Two groups of people, paying the same price, at the same time, for the same package, but one group only gets to use part of the package. Existing players don’t even get the option to use the extra core game key for an extra account, or to give to a friend.

Had they done this sometime after release as part of a promotion, I think it would have been fine. But to have this from day one, as the only option, and giving your existing playerbase nothing extra while handing out $40 worth of core game free to new players is inviting a well-deserved PR nightmare.

its not an entirely different situation, its exactly the same thing. well with 100% discount instead of 75% of course. Lets say this week they do a promotion where everyone can get the game for free and next week they open pre-orders for HoT for $50. Isnt that exactly the same thing both in terms of previous promotion and what they actually did?

This akin to some promotions vendors of rechargable batteries do. Sometimes with large packs they give you a free charger. At times it doesnt matter cause you already own a charger but if you dont and you need a charger you will likely choose that brand. I who already own a charger am not being cheated, I am paying exactly the same price. I dont see how delaying the promotion will change anything. Should I get angry if I find the charger promotion the same day I need to buy batteries but be totally fine with it if the actual promotion happens the week after, IE 7 days after I would have already bought the batteries I need?

Anger on this is misguided in my opinion.

village idiot.1436:

The notion that the base game is free with the expansion is just marketing doublespeak. Everybody who purchases the expansion is paying for the base game in addition to the expansion regardless of whether they own it or not. Reminds me of microsoft claiming that internet explorer is “free with windows”. It isn’t free just has the price included.

Anet pulled a bait and switch on players who purchased the base game with the understanding that is was required in order to play the expansion.

Anet should look forward to months of complaining and abuse rather than hype for the expansion.

what are you basing you claims on exactly?

why is it marketing double speak in your opinion?

MauricioCezar.2673:

I will explain you why:

Core game = 25 Complete maps, with at least 2500+ events, plus a full story, complete brand build mechanids of gameplay, 8 professions, 5 races and etc, etc, etc..

Expansions represent in the most, 05% of the total ammounf of the core game (And take in count that they don’t need to rebuild the game whole again. Just “Expand” it).

So, how in the world is fair pay the same price of the core game, for 25% extra of it?

it was actually 1500 events at launch but still point stands..

in which case can you please point out where anet said HoT would only have 1 map and no more then 75 events?

your 5% claim is bogus, truth is we dont know how big / small HoT is right now.

besides who says expansions need to have the same amount of content as the full game?

WoW expansion had no or maximum 2 new classes or races , none of them had a full 9 new classes to justify the price.

same if we take FFXIV upcoming expansion, they’re getting 1 new race no 5, they’re adding 3 new jobs not 10 and no new classes.

how is any of that any different then adding 9 specializations and 1 new profession?

these both ask the same price Anet are for their expansion.

is everyone a cheat because their expansions are technically smaller then the core game?

codiac.5642:

It’s only disingenuous if I don’t believe what I’m saying, not because you disagree with me about it.

I used hearts for leveling in GW2 and I use quests in ESO for the same, they are both very good XP and very useful for leveling. Yes there are other ways to level and other things to do. For this quests have been more fun for me.

so what you’re saying is you truely believe hearts provide a better experiance then dynamic events? You real believe that?

You feel there are hearts that have better story / execution then say the dwarven artifact dynamic event chain from False lake in lonar’s pass?

or say the seraph assault on Centaur Camps which can nearly shift the entire map from centaur control to human control or vice versa?

or to some fun events like say how the dynamic event chain of captain Penzan intermixes with the priory research team dynamic event chain

or the one with the ettin suite

thats not to mention temple events, meta events and world bosses.

Do you real feel there are hearts that provide a much more epic experiance and if so mind sharing some?

joe.7684:

Galen Grey.4709:

Anet already said if you recently bought Gw2 you get it turned into a pre-purchase just contact support.

What about people who bought GW2 not recently, like those – such as me – who pre-purchased it in 2012? What do they get?

The same exact thing you got everytime Arenanet put the game on sale as an incentive.

Why was it okey then and its not okey now? or do you feel this is different? and if you feel its different then why?

codiac.5642:

Hearts only have a value once, quests only have a value once, both are really useful for leveling, they serve the same role even though the mechanics differ.

Same can be said for crafting, doing vistas, jumping puzzles etc.. doesnt mean they’re comparable

and no they dont serve the same role, like I already stated hearts are only meant to direct you to the source of the real content which is dynamic events.

I’d find Gw2 the most boring MMO ever if leveling up meant just doing hearts.. they’re still better then generic quests sure for at least they offer multiple options how to complete them but they also serverly lack story while Dynamic events dont.

If I wanted to compare the best Gw2 has to offer with the best any other game has, using hearts as a bases is in my opinion disingenuous.

darkdomino.9578:

Come on now.. The core features Anet has listed are all there is. They’re not hiding anything. What you see is what you get.

really so you dont mind tell me how many maps there are? or how many masteries? or how many new dungeons / fractals if any?

you will not mind tell me what the difficult group content anet have announced actually is?

They’re not hiding anything, I didnt state they did but they havent unveiled everything yet there is still much we dont know.

ToT.7018:

I didnt notice this thread and started a similar one with the below.

I’m unsure why the UK cost of the expansion is way more when converted from US dollars. I have rounded the prices up to nearest whole number.
US/UK/actual exchange rate.
Pack1 £50 / £35 / £32
Pack2 $75 / £60 / £48
Pack3 £100 / £80 / £63
As you can see the last figures are a lot lower than the charges on the site.
Seems we are getting a bad deal on exchange rates.

I’m sorry but those prices for an expansion are far too high, i paid less for the actual game.

for the million time, in the uk you pay VAT , its not simply exchanging currency. This is how your table should show
US/UK/actual exchange rate/actual exchange rate + 20% vat.
Pack1 $50 / £35 / £31.76 / £38.40
Pack2 $75 / £60 / £47.64 / £57.60
Pack3 $100 / £80 / £63.53 /£ 75.60

base pack is actually cheaper then it should be, perhaps they have a situation where they dont pay taxes on order less then $50?

The others are just slighly her then they should be but keep in mind different banks charge different rates of exchange + some also charge money for the transactions so it will never be 100%.

NEOCROM.8957:

Galen Grey.4709:

NEOCROM.8957:

“So, new players are more important to you than the fan base that’s been funding you with gem store purchases for the last few years? Nice to know. Don’t get me wrong, im glad you’re throwing them a bone. Nothing irks me quite like buying something only for that something to be discontinued and re added with a bazillion perks/additions for the same cost (In this case, an expansion). But uhm, your current fan base, and the ones who’ve stuck around.. They should matter too.”
Found this comment in the wall-o-texts there. This guy deserves medal of honor.

So you and that poster are suggesting we outlaw promotions now? And if we do excatly who will benefit? all you’re saying here is if I dont get nice things, no one should get nice things!

Suggesting that Anet isnt fair with the price. The price may be fair for newcomers, but what about vets? What about ppl who bought the game 3 weeks ago for example? 50$ for an expansion AND the core game we already have, and not even some gems in that absurd price.

Anet already said if you recently bought Gw2 you get it turned into a pre-purchase just contact support.

Besides why isnt it a fair price? are they charging more then other MMOs charged for their expansions released in the last couple of years? Checking FFXIV and WoW they charged exactly the same amount for example, only difference FFXIV charges $10 more if you want the base game.

dekou.6012:

Galen Grey.4709:

BrooksP.4318:

Galen Grey.4709:

They’re already doing that.

Link because I see nothing on the announcement or in the FAQ. If true then there is no issue.

The current outcry is a perception of value, whereas this is more about deceptive business practices.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a46s4/preorders_for_heart_of_thorns_are_now_live/cs96lfu

Quote: “We’ll most certainly help anyone out who just bought the core game and would like to make the change to a HoT pre-purchase.”

How nice of ANet to bury that info in a Reddit thread instead of putting it somewhere where people could see it, like… oh, maybe the preorder page! That’s such a great idea, but I’m sure they just missed it. Surely, they’re not hoping people will miss their chance for a refund. With the latest lack of shady practices on Anet’s part, it’s easy to believe in their good intentions.

Likewise, the expansion is probably missing an extra character slot to teach veteran players to use the gem shop. It’s like a tutorial!

Please, as if there is any such thing as burrying anything on the internet
its been less then 12hrs devs cant be everywhere all the time.

no no, the tutorial was in the base game, it had 5 slots instead of 8 to let you practice buying slots 3 times and get the hang of it.

littlemunster.1059:

I’ve only experience a month or slightly more? I consider myself to be a newbie veteran. I purchased the core thinking it was needed. I was misled and lied to. It’s not a matter of being greedy. I also see that older veterans who bought the game will need to spend more than just $50 to experience the expansion in full. Either that, or they grind madly for that character slot. Is it fair older players needs to pay $60 instead of $50?

You’re in luck, contact support they’ll probably change your purchase into the pre-purchase for you:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a46s4/preorders_for_heart_of_thorns_are_now_live/cs96lfu

Cormac.3871:

What I am expecting from HoT is not worth $50. If they came out and said 7 new maps, then I’d say “Awesome, take my money!” I am expecting 3-5, so I am a little reluctant to hand over my money. The problem for me is that by preordering I don’t have a reasonable idea of what I am paying for.

then wait until they actually expand on what maps we can expect in HoT, why is that a problem?

Test.8734:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its actually called being objective. We dont even know the full extent of the content HoT carries how can anyone really evaluate value at this point?

Since ArenaNet is asking us to pay the full price of the game, they obviously think we have enough information to evaluate value.

Meanwhile, HONEST developers give people more information before allowing pre-orders, such as, I don’t know, the RELEASE DATE or something?

Different people require different level of knowledge to make an informed decision.
For some there is enough information to pre-order. I’d argue for some knowing there is going to be an expansion was enough for them to pre-order. Dont even need to argue you can find threads asking about pre-orders dating back to the announcement.

In anycase why is this a problem? is there a benefit to pre-ordering now then pre-ordering a day before release? if you’re not confortable with the amount of knowledge you have right now (and you’d be right not to by the way) then wait until you get enough information to make an informed decision. There is no hurry.

codiac.5642:

Hi, I bought ESO fairly recently, my first non A-Net MMO, I have a high end system and it is absolutely gorgeous! I haven’t tried the PvP yet, but the PvE is really good and I like the combat system.

I’ve found the ESO quests more enjoyable that heart quests so far, but I’ve not gotten that far in to the story lines as I like to wonder around and play on different toons.

What I find really great about ESO is the UI mod’s you can get for it, they really allow you to customise the UI and see things how you want. If A-Net was going to take anything out of ESO it should be this, their default UI is on par with the GW2 UI, but with community mods it creams the GW2 UI, because each player can get the exact experience they want, regardless of how different their tastes are.

I’ve been logging in to GW2 regularly to get the daily rewards, just in case I need stuff for HOT, guess I’ll continue to do that but I won’t pre-order HOT because to me it’s questionable value. I’ll wait until after release and wait to see is there is more \o/ than qq … no reason I can’t play 2 MMOs :P

Amway, I bought ESO and haven’t had buyers remorse yet, so guess that’s a +1 from me

Your Gw2 account is 2 years old and you’re comparing Questing with Hearts?
Surely you know Hearts arent Questing in Gw2, they never even were meant to be in Gw2 and but were added as markers for players based on testers feedback, to direct them in the general area of Dynamic events and give them something to do while they wait for dynamic events which are the real questing meat so to speak!

Baldrick.8967:

Galen Grey.4709:

Mordalus.8146:

I’ve been a loyal GW2 patron since release. Even spending a small amount of cash on gems every month. Up until now, GW2 has been a great value. But I just refuse to spend 50 bucks plus on Silverwastes 2.0 and some LS updates. Twenty even twenty-five bucks? Yes. Fifty? Not on your life. The value is just not there. The amount of content appears to be very slim for such a high dollar figure.

Especially since I’ve been eyeing up ESO since it released. And now that it’s B2P and discounted, it seems like the better value. Also, most of its bugs have been fixed and it’s received a nice amount of polish as well as new systems. Many of the issues players have complained about are gone.

So I think I’ve off to Tamriel for a while. At least until HoT comes down to a more realistic price based on the small amount of content it appears to be delivering.

we have no clue how much content HoT has. we dont know how many maps there are, we dont know how many dynamic events there are, we dont know how many story line missions there are, we dont know if there are dungeons / fractals or even raids. how can you objectively make this statement "But I just refuse to spend 50 bucks plus on Silverwastes 2.0 and some LS updates. " ?

As we don’t know how much content there actually is, his argument is just as valid as yours…

I am sorry but no. Not knowing how much content there is doesnt make comments stating how content starve this expansion is valid. Just like if I were to argue this expansion is overflowing with content completely bogus. We dont know means we dont know we cant infair anything in either direction.

NEOCROM.8957:

“So, new players are more important to you than the fan base that’s been funding you with gem store purchases for the last few years? Nice to know. Don’t get me wrong, im glad you’re throwing them a bone. Nothing irks me quite like buying something only for that something to be discontinued and re added with a bazillion perks/additions for the same cost (In this case, an expansion). But uhm, your current fan base, and the ones who’ve stuck around.. They should matter too.”
Found this comment in the wall-o-texts there. This guy deserves medal of honor.

So you and that poster are suggesting we outlaw promotions now? And if we do excatly who will benefit? all you’re saying here is if I dont get nice things, no one should get nice things!

MashMash.1645:

Galen Grey.4709:

This is getting rediculous

I mean seriously what exactly would have changed for anyone?
seriously how did this effect you exactly?

You paid $50 or whatever at HoT announce for base gw2 (because its needed to play HoT), and now have to pay another $50-$100. If you are new player buying this HoT deal it only costs $50-$100

Total – $50-$100 vs $100-$150

Unless they decided today this was the new deal, they must have known earlier – but continued to sell copies, knowing a free copy was going to be included.

Like OP said – shady.

No like they stated if you just bought the game Anet will change it to a pre-purchase for you. IE not shady. I mean come on people they’re obviously doing this to entice new players why on earth would they try to double charge them, that doesnt even make sense!

indelible.5928:

darkdomino.9578:

Gotta love fanboys… Telling someone one thing and then behind their backs doing another isn’t LYING. Right guys? Right??

Hahaha

I’d argue that it runs very, very close to being a bait-and-switch scheme.

1) Bait new customers to pay the premium for the base game by telling them they’ll need it to play the expansion, but withhold the information that the expansion will include the base game;

2) Switch the base game out for the expansion, and on the day of pre-purchase release change the relevant information to include the previously withheld information pertaining to the base game being included in the purchase of the expansion.

Bait-and-switch.

Actually illegal.

Well done, ANet ^^

You do realise if what you’re descibing actually qualified as bait and switch then absolutely every discount would be considered as such!

First you get me to pay full prize then without informing me first that down the line you offer it for 75% less?

Bait and switch works exactly the opposite way of what you descibe.

IE it would have been bait and switch if the said that you dont need the core game and then once you bought the expansion they suddenly changed tune.

BrooksP.4318:

Galen Grey.4709:

They’re already doing that.

Link because I see nothing on the announcement or in the FAQ. If true then there is no issue.

The current outcry is a perception of value, whereas this is more about deceptive business practices.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3a46s4/preorders_for_heart_of_thorns_are_now_live/cs96lfu

Quote: “We’ll most certainly help anyone out who just bought the core game and would like to make the change to a HoT pre-purchase.”

Damian Vryce.9417:

Galen Grey.4709:

This is getting rediculous

I mean seriously what exactly would have changed for anyone?
seriously how did this effect you exactly?

Tell me how did this not affect people that bought the game solely because it was stated it was needed for HoT before they changed it? Sure it might not be many, but that’s a different discussion all together.

because they’re covernting those people to HoT pre-purchase for free.
Ironically its not those people who are complaining about this.