Guild Wars 2

Ishmael.6740:

I think they are indeed powerful and most of all are cut out for the new content, so they end up being the go to specs for that.
On the other hand it doesn’t make “vanilla” specs unviable. It’s mostly the min-maxing meta attitude that has been a problem for much longer. Most of the time your core spec builds will be perfectly viable, maybe it’ll take you a bit longer to complete content, but not to the point where it becomes a major problem, I think.

The min-maxing meta attitude is not the issue. You can choose not to min-max in PvE – sure – but in PvP you’re going to have a very bad time if you’re not on an elite spec.

Not only will you be at a severe disadvantage but your team might direct their anger towards you and some might even stop playing.
The handicap is too big.

You’re only looking at PvE – but PvP and WvW are also parts of this game.

Because if you flat out state it it gives people more grounds to complain. It would create a focal point on which the community could focus and point towards. It would be out in the open. Stating the opposite helps create confusion and creates camps of people. Instead of them focusing on Anet asking for a change the two camps focus on each other – each camp arguing for its point.

This way it’s more of a gray area – because for everyone who says it’s like there will be others who will say things like: “Oh I’m sure they didn’t intend to – it’s an oversight and they’ll get right on changing it” or " You have no proof that they want this – in fact I don’t believe the elite specs are necessarily overpowered".

Grey area allows for backpedaling too – say the community becomes SO mad with it the waves of backlash are huge. They can just nerf the elite specs and say they were “performing better than expected” or give some other PR-friendly line about it.
A solid statement indicating they WANT them this way would mean they have to commit to this 100% and there’d be no room to backpedal in case of an emergency.

There’s a saying where I’m from – roughly translates to “keeps quiet about it but does it anyway”.

Also – where did they claim otherwise?

Healix.5819:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Map taxi isn’t bad, just something that is is the easiest most successful way of doing the events. And on the other hand makes the empty maps feel very much like wastelands where people don’t attempt the event as it’s much more likely to fail, thus a waste of time in many peoples eyes.

It’s good for the few, but bad for everyone else as it further fuels the zerg mindset and potentially kills off the other maps as people leave or continue to try to. That full map could easily split in two and still have more than enough people to complete the meta. People become accustomed to the ease of zerging however and anything less is unacceptable. Why bother with a lesser populated map when the average player can practically AFK through a full one for a guaranteed win. Meanwhile, the people that don’t taxi and always find themselves in dead maps eventually stop showing up.

Even if the maps were populated however, people’s perception can be a major problem. If people don’t know where others are, they see no commanders for example, they’ll assume the map is dead. The UI should help with that by showing all events, how many people they’re actually scaled for, how many people are nearby and there should be an easy way to request help (ping chat and show an icon on the map for example).

FrizzFreston.5290:

What could potentially fix it, is scaling these events better or so that when there are less people they become slightly easier or equally hard to do than when there is alot of people.

Group events generally begin scaling at 3 people. Scaling isn’t 1:1 however, because when it is, the zerg fails hard, like Shatterer’s pre-nerf impossible breakbar. The average player simply isn’t good, so it needs to get easier with more, otherwise you will get into that situation where people don’t just want you to leave, you’ll have to. There’s really no reason however to not make it easier with less, except that that was meant to be the normal difficulty.

This is pretty much on point.
I don’t dislike the system though – I’m not one who really enjoys open world content so being able to do it easily and get carried by zergs is really nice. Gives me more time to tab out and stuff.

And I know people will be shocked and appalled but I’m not going to put 100% effort in unless I know others are as well. Like with a TTS overflow map, or other organized things.
On top of that putting 100% effort into something that randoms half the map away can fail because they can’t be bothered to think or even read map chat is a bad investment.

So map events for me go like “show up – tag – get reward – get out”.

Should this be changed? Yes and no.
I think a lot of players enjoy the zerg – it makes it easy and accessible for a lot of people and the “failproof maps” also keep toxicity in check because nobody is upset if maps succeed.

Simply put – fewer people on map = harder content which means more toxicity.

I agree that in every area of the game elite specs dominate and are stronger than core specs. I do however believe that this is intended and that as BRA above states these elite specs will be balanced against OTHER elite specs.
I believe that elite specs will be balanced against each other while remaining stronger than the core specs – which will create pressure on players to buy access to these elite specs.

Does this make the game buy-to-win? Well not really – in the same way buying GW1’s expansions gave you access to the skills – some of which would be more effective at something than others.

I think they wanted to make elite specs stronger than core specs – even the name they were given is suggestive “elite”.

All that aside – @Orpheal – I disagree with you and I don’t believe the game is going to be reworked. Don’t forget games have inertia – and a lot of people are used to the game as is. They can make tweaks and arrangements but 4 years into the game’s life you’re not going to see a huge overhaul like the one you’re suggesting.

@Drakz – trust me – if a player wins a 3 v 1 it’s because of player skill not “OP class”.
No matter how strong you are – a 3 v 1 between players of equal skill will be a quick fight with the one player either dying or running away.

You guys have to take into account that Raids ROI is not something you can fully appreciate through number of players doing them NOW alone.

Raids are more than just the in-game content – they are a tickbox of “stuff” the game has that has now been checked.
This is a smart PR move – I’ve known a lot of people who stayed away from GW2 because it has no “raids” or “endgame”. Now that box has been ticked and a number of people might be interested or might consider the game.

Another issue is that a lot of the first raid’s success or failure will hinge on legendary armor. If it’s cool, looks good and appeals to a lot of people I guarantee you a lot of people will start raiding. If not – a lot of people might drop it.
This is an MMO – people do things for rewards and progression (be it vertical or horizontal) – if the rewards are considered “bad” the content overall will be considered “bad” and flop.

One must also take into account that Raids are a way of appeasing a part of the community. You can’t really say “GW2 has no hardcore content” anymore. And I haven’t seen one thread about “no difficult content” in a long time.
GW2 has had for a very long time a LOT of easy content for the casual player(Open world stuff). Now it has some hardcore content for the hardcore player.
It also has intermediate content for the in-between player (dungeons, fractals) – so all in all I think with the addition of raids the majority of players have been covered with something to do.

Blaeys.3102:

This will all be moot soon regardless – as soon as people actually have to spend those legendary insights to make gear. I wonder how many people will accept the answer “I would link my LIs, but I had to use them to make precursor armor” or, even better, not make the armor so they can continue to link insights

IMO, this is silliness only practiced by insecure raiders who need the people they bring into their groups to be capable of carrying them through fights.

It would be fine because you could ping your precursor armor.

Razor.9872:

Harper.4173:

Razor.9872:

[&Aif2LQEA] = 39 Legendary Insights

Please

For the love of all that is good in this world — only use this if you know you can meet expectations. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up to be a hindrance for other people.

This means bringing the best food/maintenance for your build, having TS/Discord handy, being responsive to group requests, and understanding/performing your role in the squad.

Well done – give him help in what he’s doing and hope he doesn’t ruin other people’s fun.

This is really sad.

You shouldn’t fake codes – get your insights and actually ping them. It’s not that hard.

Plus – if you fake them – chances are you’ll get kicked 99.99% of time.

The issue for a lot of people is that they find themselves in a situation where they can’t “get [their] insights and actually ping them.” It turns into a catch-22 where they need insights to join groups to get insights — even when they have reliably beaten the boss before on more than one occasion with the rare insight-requirement-less groups.

The way I see it is this: If the people pinging chat-codes are not good enough for the insights they ping, then they will be kicked regardless. However, there are plenty of people out there who are definitely skilled/knowledgeful enough to raid, but are gated out of groups because of their lime-limited-life imposing a LI shortage.

So they should form groups with other people that don’t have insights and want them.
Leeching off others is not nice.

There are people out there that have raided since day 1 – do your own work – earn your place don’t just try to freejoin good groups because you can’t be bothered to make your own.

deSade.9437:

Kiktor.9503:

well i got full ascended gears, watched youtube videos how to do every boss and that attacks they got, only thing i never cared much about raids till now, then i want to make legendary backpack and for that u need salvage ascended gear ( TONS OF IT ), and raids seems best way to get them.

Dude, they’re gonna notice unless they’re all as dumb as a bag of rocks. I never ask for LI ping, but I’ve had pugs weaseling their way into the party and pretending to be experienced at said boss because they “watched a few videos” and believe me, it ain’t pretty. Unless they’re playing ps warr and everyone’s too focused on their own duty, you notice immediately they’ve never done it before, and then it’s either 2 things: we notice as soon as they get their 1st bomb/poison (if we’re lucky, they die straight away and cause no further damage to the team), we proceed to keep quiet about it and carry them through the successful kill, perhaps even with achievement (lookin’ at you, Seimur), then they leave feeling all smug and thinking they’re “experienced” and how OBVIOUSLY you don’t need LI to kill the bosses, all dem filthy elitists, bwahaha, I’m so smart and cunning, they didn’t notice!!!! or two: we fail the encounter, once or repeatedly, the morale goes to crap and I gotta pinch my nose and kick before everyone in the party ragequits (then complain about everything that comes to my attention ‘cause oh god I’m such an awful person).

Hey, it’s 50/50, right? well, more like 20/80, ‘cause you better not expect most pugs groups to be able to carry. Maaaaybe you get lucky every once in a while and nab some VG/gorse kills from a half-decent group without them noticing. That’s about it, unless you’re the luckiest jerk that ever lived on this planet.

Orrr could do like most did and work your way up from the bottom, but that isn’t as easy as getting carried, heh.

Anyway, I’m just gonna go ahead and be a toxic, presumptuous butt, let me just… /writes down
Just in case, eh. Better safe than sorry. And boy, don’t I feel like a sorry kitten when I catch a bad case of LieSneeze.

Why do you carry people that sneak into the group? Kick them on sight and write their account names down for further reference.

Razor.9872:

[&Aif2LQEA] = 39 Legendary Insights

Please

For the love of all that is good in this world — only use this if you know you can meet expectations. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up to be a hindrance for other people.

This means bringing the best food/maintenance for your build, having TS/Discord handy, being responsive to group requests, and understanding/performing your role in the squad.

Well done – give him help in what he’s doing and hope he doesn’t ruin other people’s fun.

This is really sad.

You shouldn’t fake codes – get your insights and actually ping them. It’s not that hard.

Plus – if you fake them – chances are you’ll get kicked 99.99% of time.

1. I do not see the meta being “more fun” without a PS warrior. I also don’t understand how metas are supposed to be “fun or unfun” in PvE.
2. Even with banners I presume warrior would be dropped for another Ele or something.
3.Why would this even happen?

Make both – swap between them!

doddbox.8153:

Harper.4173:

doddbox.8153:

The people publishing AP requirements are advertising how bad they are themselves, I wouldn’t be too bummed about getting kicked by people like that. Find or make some friends to run dailies and avoid taking more than 2 pugs in any run.

How exactly are people bad if they simply dislike to play with certain people?
How am I bad if I want people that I know will most likely know the content by heart. How am I bad if I don’t feel like explaining stuff to new players?

You’re bad for trusting that AP correlates with any part of what you just said, to which it doesn’t. (Also helps to read the post so I can avoid future repeat answers)

You’re bad for not understanding that there’s a clear trend that correlates AP and player skill. It’s not 100% perfect.
But more often than not a 20k+ AP player will be significantly better than a let’s say 5k AP player.

Also a 5k AP player is MILES ahead of a 500 AP player – in the majority of situations.
Exceptions exist – the rule still stands.

Zenith.7301:

No.

The last thing this game needs is more legendary greatswords.

Twilight and Sunrise have already the most effects and animations compared to the other legendaries. They have the longer lasting footprints, which are also large unlike Colossus/Meteorologicus, they bring an aura with themselves, and their attack animations are amongst the most detailed.

The last legendary that should be worked on is more greatswords.

Work on improving the crappy ones we already have.

Legendary footfalls don’t scale with race so footfalls are minuscule on male norn.

Meteorologicus doesn’t have an aura or any spell animation effects, unlike Bifrost. The footfalls of Meteorologicus are kitten, basically a lesser copy/paste of Bolt’s.

The Minstrel has no footfalls. The torch is similarly mediocre.

Howler’s aura doesn’t work on your character half the time and the footfalls are barely visible.

Nevermore’s footfalls are barely visible and don’t last long like Twilight/Sunrise. Astralaria and the shortbow have similarly short footfalls but at least Astralaria’s is more noticeable.

You are both biased and wrong. We get that you don’t like greatswords. We really do – but they should work on ALL types of legendaries – not just the ones you like.

That aside – greatswords are the some of the most popular weapons in the game – so why not have MORE of them if people like them?

There’s a reason they’re so common.

Just buy the things? They’re really not expensive.

Some human male idles are missing too.

ziggystardust.3721:

Harper.4173:

So I was on reddit a few minutes ago and some happy poster posted this:

It is the same immaturity that plagues other PvP and FPS games and the problem is certainly not the people that are just there to play casually/have fun.

It was posted in a topic where people were discussing toxicity and its causes.
Well one of the causes is right there – in his post.

If you are playing PvP casually in a happy-go-lucky way you should not be playing in leagues.

I think Anet should take steps to make it more clear that people that just want to “play some pvp” but have no idea what PvP is, how it works and so on should be encouraged to not play leagues.

The real reason for toxicity as far as I see it is being matched with clueless people that don’t listen and go into PvP with the wrong attitude.

One solution I propose to fix this would be a PvP rank requirement for entry into leagues of let’s say 60. I understand this can be farmed too – but I doubt most “casual” PvPers will bother with farming it that high.

Also to those of you who will be asking – why not post this on reddit – the answer is: I dislike reddit and believe that discussion regarding GW2 should take place on the official forums – not some 3rd party website.

First, aren’t you creating that toxicity now by criticising those casual players?
Second, if you’re that guy who dislike to loose matches and blames randoms for it maybe you are the real problem?

If you want to win you get your own team and play with real voice help. You having fun, play how you want. I spend almostall my time at pvp, with randoms, just having fun. This is game for fun and you shouldn’t tell others what to do. You want to go to pro, get team. If you dislike people crying at eotm just block them.

First – without addressing a problem and talking about it we’re not going to fix it or even come remotely close to that.

Second – how am I the problem? Because I have the audacity to solo queue and THEN – on top of that I expect people to at least know what PvP is and how it plays out before they join?
Or to have the common sense not to go in 3 v 1? or feed mid continuously?

Baronvonhippo.3157:

Archon.6480:

Harper.4173:

Archon.6480:

Yes, if we could only stop people from playing this game to “have fun” all our problems would go away.

Go to work if you wanna have fun! Leave gaming for the serious folks!

You missed my point entirely.

There are people who only want their wins.
There are people who just want to “have fun and goof off”.

Their goals are different. Pairing them together is a recipe for disaster. In the end people will get at each other’s throats and nothing good will come of it.

Is it so hard to understand?

I got your point exactly right. And it’s not hard to understand your point is completely false. Really? You think there is only two kinds of players? Since when has having fun and trying to win been mutually exclusive?

Maybe you could expand your thought a little and consider there are people who just want to have fun and win?

/thread

I think what he is getting at is the lame duck argument “I paid the same amount for the game I will play however I want!”. Guess what everyone in the movie theatre paid the same amount for a ticket to watch the movie as well, this doesn’t mean I can watch the movie how I want and be disruptive to others there. The other 9 players in the game are real people using their real time so why isn’t there a basic social contract here as well to at least understand basics of the maps/class before jumping into ranked games.

Here is a real world experiment to try. Go to your local basketball court, join a game with random players there. Once the game begins ask for the ball then proceed to dropkick the ball out of the court. If people get upset remind them you are just playing the game the way you want and that you paid the same taxes as they do. Who cares if you ruin the game for 9 others, you are a fierce individual and you do what you want ROAR!

Exactly this – this is exactly what happens in games where I get frustrated.
It’s not that people are playing badly – it’s that sometimes people are out of this world clueless as to what’s going on.

It’s not that they’re bad players – it’s that they’re not even playing. They’re just there – doing whatever they want to – disregarding that for the rest of the team that means certain defeat.

snarfrificus.4230:

Harper.4173:

So I was on reddit a few minutes ago and some happy poster posted this:

It is the same immaturity that plagues other PvP and FPS games and the problem is certainly not the people that are just there to play casually/have fun.

It was posted in a topic where people were discussing toxicity and its causes.
Well one of the causes is right there – in his post.

If you are playing PvP casually in a happy-go-lucky way you should not be playing in leagues.

I think Anet should take steps to make it more clear that people that just want to “play some pvp” but have no idea what PvP is, how it works and so on should be encouraged to not play leagues.

The real reason for toxicity as far as I see it is being matched with clueless people that don’t listen and go into PvP with the wrong attitude.

One solution I propose to fix this would be a PvP rank requirement for entry into leagues of let’s say 60. I understand this can be farmed too – but I doubt most “casual” PvPers will bother with farming it that high.

Also to those of you who will be asking – why not post this on reddit – the answer is: I dislike reddit and believe that discussion regarding GW2 should take place on the official forums – not some 3rd party website.

Nice bait this topic, i can only say people play this for fun are way more the majority then the so called true hardcore minority, o wait the true hardcore ones already left this game and are playing BDO at this moment. The ones that are still left are wannabees who wants to keep their little world and not welcome anyone else.
I play PvP for fun and i dont care what others think about it, the joke is if i see playing pvp for fun i play at my best, if i MUST do stuff, i will not succeed.
Every human being works different mate, just learn how to go around with it, if you cant then you should be having a horrible RL lol.

Taking PvP seriously doesn’t mean you have to dedicate your life to endlessly grinding gear and subjecting yourself to RNG like BDO wants you to.

Chaith.8256:

Harper.4173:

Ellie.5913:

Ranael.6423:

@Ellie: Pills are no replacement for education!
If someone in the street cannot control his anger, turns upset easily and throw some insults because it is getting out without control, I see how this person needs to channel his anger. It can be done either by medication or discussion.
In the present case, people get upset and take time to type on their keyboard, sometimes read what they have written before pushing Enter. It is like a forum, it is not as spontaneous. In that case I tend to think that people know what they are doing and do it on purpose : they want to be toxic towards someone.

There can be several reason (“you hurt my ego, I hurt yours in front of others”, “If I am mean enough to someone it will create a reaction in his gameplay”…..) but I don’t think it is a medical issue.

I don’t know but i was cyber bullied on here once a while back by some one I killed in pvp repeatedly, and that’s all I did, I didn’t speak 1 word to him, just killed him every time he came near my point. And he got so mad and started calling me the worst name he could think of, it was bad but what made it worse was he got everyone on his team to call me that word too. I felt soo bad that I just wanted to go some where and hide. So that kind of abuse does bad things to people and it should not be excused or permitted. If meds and or therapy would help them to not harm others that way then they should do it, and if they are just hateful cruel people they shouldn’t be allowed any where near the internet ever. That’s my thoughts on the subject

“Others should be silenced because I can’t control my emotions”.

You might find this funny – but people who insult others or are just verbally abusive are not people that should be put on meds. Trust me – I work in this field and know what I’m talking about.

If people who insult and verbally abuse others should be medicated – you’d be medicating 99% of the world’s population.

The best way to avoid harm is to try to do your own part in being stronger and more capable in dealing with this sort of thing. Silencing people isn’t the answer.
Whether they’re wrong or right – people will speak out – it’s a fundamental right.
Their freedom means they’re also free to be mean to you if they so wish. Even if Anet doesn’t necessarily support it.

Who said anything about silencing people? The block feature works fine.

You’re equating giving a cookie to people that are up voted for sportsmanship, with something completely different.

If it’s your calling to rip a strip off your teammates, and annoy every player in the vicinity, God bless America, you can still do that. Just don’t expect a cookie for good behavior.

In case you missed it Ellie proposes that everyone who has something that’s not nice to say to him must somehow be psychically deranged and should be put on medication.

This is a form of silencing – it’s the “there’s no validity to anything you say or do because you’re insane” tactic.
That does not mean that being verbally abusive is nice – but it certainly is not a prime indicator for mental sickness.

Others in this thread have proposed permabans for people who vent in PvP.

I was primarily addressing them.

I get your system – it might work – if the rewards are good enough it might even be a good farm.

Ellie.5913:

Ranael.6423:

@Ellie: Pills are no replacement for education!
If someone in the street cannot control his anger, turns upset easily and throw some insults because it is getting out without control, I see how this person needs to channel his anger. It can be done either by medication or discussion.
In the present case, people get upset and take time to type on their keyboard, sometimes read what they have written before pushing Enter. It is like a forum, it is not as spontaneous. In that case I tend to think that people know what they are doing and do it on purpose : they want to be toxic towards someone.

There can be several reason (“you hurt my ego, I hurt yours in front of others”, “If I am mean enough to someone it will create a reaction in his gameplay”…..) but I don’t think it is a medical issue.

I don’t know but i was cyber bullied on here once a while back by some one I killed in pvp repeatedly, and that’s all I did, I didn’t speak 1 word to him, just killed him every time he came near my point. And he got so mad and started calling me the worst name he could think of, it was bad but what made it worse was he got everyone on his team to call me that word too. I felt soo bad that I just wanted to go some where and hide. So that kind of abuse does bad things to people and it should not be excused or permitted. If meds and or therapy would help them to not harm others that way then they should do it, and if they are just hateful cruel people they shouldn’t be allowed any where near the internet ever. That’s my thoughts on the subject

“Others should be silenced because I can’t control my emotions”.

You might find this funny – but people who insult others or are just verbally abusive are not people that should be put on meds. Trust me – I work in this field and know what I’m talking about.

If people who insult and verbally abuse others should be medicated – you’d be medicating 99% of the world’s population.

The best way to avoid harm is to try to do your own part in being stronger and more capable in dealing with this sort of thing. Silencing people isn’t the answer.
Whether they’re wrong or right – people will speak out – it’s a fundamental right.
Their freedom means they’re also free to be mean to you if they so wish. Even if Anet doesn’t necessarily support it.

Spartacus.3192:

Harper.4173:

If you are playing PvP casually in a happy-go-lucky way you should not be playing in leagues.

a thread about toxicity and here we have a perfect example.

Telling other people who paid the same amount of money as you, how they should play the game.

Dont blame the players, blame ANET for making a PVE item a reward for PVP leagues. For making class achievements in ranked only. All these are causing the problem.

I understand you are upset.
However where exactly do you seem to get the idea that I don’t blame Anet for this as well?

Cuchulainn.7421:

Posted this months ago:

“..New players start with an MMR very close to the average of the player base..”

And i think this is the main problem since start of GW2 pvp.

This is not a new thing and i thought about it years ago when i started this game and was surprised why i was placed with truely more experienced players than me after my first couple pvp matches. I didn´t know anything about builds strategy and so on.

So, if we look at A-Nets description above. Why are new players average players?.."

It has been proposed for ages not to team newbs with advanced players but A-Net can´t find a solution for it. They used to place newbs near 50% players at beginning. I don´t know if they still do this.

And posted this month ago:

“..So and why does ANET continuously refuse to make MMR/ELO public if they don´t have to hide something?

They could solve this 3 year mmr problem in seconds.

If we could see our MMR u can clearly say,ok boy, u deserve where u are, git betta.

No visible MMR = no visible player strength.

Because its MMR that counts in the end…"

The problem is, we can´t know if a player is good or bad. Only MMR/ELO can do this. U can see outstanding players that play bad sometimes. Maybe they have a bad day? Maybe they are drunk? Maybe they want to sabotage the game?

Ikittensee their high ELO and they played bad u can tick it off or u can insult this player why he didn´t play at maximum efficiency.

Otherwise the bad players see their MMR in comparison to other better players. Education effect?

I agree with you – I feel new players are placed to far up the MMR scale. It is absurd.

A visible MMR system would go a long way to understanding what’s wrong. I feel however this is the exact reason a system like this is NOT put in place. Because it would make the shortcomings of current matchmaking much more evident.

Chaith.8256:

Casuals seem to be a scapegoat for toxicity of this thread. Toxicity is the fault of the toxic people or persons.

In every team game, all the players are going to be salty if individual teammates are getting dumpstered due to poor connection, bad builds, talking on the phone, screaming kids/parents in the background, you name it.

I’m guilty of being salty @ bad teammates, but as per the unspoken internet code of conduct, don’t start verbally abusing people in GW2 team chat. If you do, you’re at fault.

Instead of alienating a significant player demographic by simply denying them the PvP Achievements/League progress, I suggest a positive sportsmanship program, and the ability to meaningfully rate players on their sportsmanship, (or toxicity) in a way that incentivizes shutting the hell up instead of expressing how crap your teammates are compared to you.

Toss in some serious reward track progress boosts for a clean bill of sportsmanship, and you have a happier playerbase.

And you believe such a system could not be abused? Silencing people who are mad because of a problem does not fix the problem. It only frustrates people.
You need to fix the problem not silence its effects.

azyume.6321:

What exactly is so surprising and hard to understand that there is a safety on the lower divisions to ensure that everyone can obtain the reward, in this case the backpiece? Upholding that knowledge, it is obvious every kind of player can reach ruby.

If they put in the time and effort – yes – that’s why I’m saying matchmaking should consider more parameters than just rank and MMR.
Because you can get people who got to sapphire through sheer number of games played that are very bad and will disrupt the enjoyment of all others there.

I’m not saying the backpiece should not be for everyone.
I’m saying match bad players with bad players. Medium players with medium players and good players with good players.

Anet made an invitation to every player to join the leagues, be they a beginner or a seasoned, and some players are thinking the leagues are their own pro league bit. Once they can take that out of their mind and see the leagues for the way it is, then the toxicity will start to decrease.

But maybe not everyone should play with everyone. Because of differences in skill ,goal and mindset.

Dungeons were a similar thing – content for everyone that groups approached very differently – some were speed runners – some were lore-RP-atmosphere lovers.
Some wanted loot – some wanted to pass the time.

Different goals – conflict.

If one is dissatisfied with their teammates while solo queuing in the league, they have the ability to form a team and fix that. However they don’t and have this unreasonable expectations that the matchmaker will be able to find the 4 perfect players any time that person decides to play the league. Much better form a team than keeping solo queuing, blaming the others, being toxic and frustrated, no?

I don’t expect perfect teammates – I’m not perfect either.
I expect teammates of my skill and knowledge level. Sometimes the game throws me out of my bracket in terms of skill and knowledge – that’s not fun either – because I can’t perform in those higher areas of the game and I drag my team down.
That’s not good for anyone.

So you are simply ignoring or disqualifying every pro league team we have NA and EU as well as the players and teams who competes on the tournaments by saying this game doesn’t have any competitive player?

I’m saying it’s not a hard competitive game – it’s never going to take off as Anet wanted it to.
It will never be a huge success in the eSports scene like LoL ,DoTA and other games.
Honestly – Not many watch it, and I’m pretty sure none of the pro teams play it because they actually love the game.

It is time for people stop using excuses for this and that for bad behaviors and start to examine themselves and the real reasons why they are doing it. Do those players leash on their family and friends in daily basis like they do in game or they just do it in game because they know they will have, if any, a minimal punishment for it?

The reason these things happen aren’t excuses – it’s just a reason. I doubt anyone is looking for “excuses”. I think the people doing the toxic things don’t care about that.

Also – comparing complete strangers represented by virtual avatars to friends and family is absurd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_favoritism
Of course they don’t do that to friends and family. That doesn’t mean they won’t do it to strangers.

There are other games out there that punish things – DoTA, LoL – and do you see people stopping because of it?
When you’re angry – you’ll vent – you’ll take the hit ( “punishment”) and still do it. That’s how humans work.

Ranael.6423:

While I understand your proposal, I am sure such a system would simply destroy leagues… which means coming back to where the system was before HOT. Leagues are a good way for the game to attract many people in PvP on specific times (hence the one month down time). If you put a high threshold for entry, no one will take the time to do it save hard pvpers and queue times will be much longer.

I get that might be the case – but the alternative is short queue times with all that’s going on now.
I’d rather have 1 good game with balanced teams and good teammates vs good opponents than have 3 games that go completely one way or another.

That aside – leagues are not what brought people to PvP – the new backpiece is.
Imagine leagues without the backpiece – who would be playing? Not many.

Does the mixing of good and bad players create toxicity ? Maybe, but not only. Within each group (baddies or goodies) there are always people thinking they are better than they actually are so they will not believe their teammates have their level and hence starts to be toxic (following your thoughts). But sometimes it is enough to see that the other team is better to give someone the impression he is paired with bad players, it’s just a comparison effect.

This I understand – however there are some universally applicable traits that say “bad”. Going in vs 3 when you’re alone, going with a teammate to cap when the point is clear – etc.

The problem is that this season’s matchmaking pairs extremes more easily than S2 at least.

On top of this, the main factor for toxicity is losing game. If you are in a “bad” team and win, you won’t feel the need of ranting, you’ll simply think “well, it is ugly, but at least we won”. Rank 60 wouldn’t change the fact there is a losing team… and toxicity.

I’ve won on bad teams and felt incredibly frustrated and appalled by my team afterwards.
I’ve lost to better teams and not because we had a terrible team but just because we were outplayed by a superior team – and I was perfectly fine with it and enjoyed the game.

I don’t mind losing. I mind doing it because someone is just completely out of his depth. And just as a note – when I usually consider someone bad and call them out – I’m usually not the only one on the team that notices how bad they are.

I think the place where there is the least toxicity within a team is premades (full team of course). If you choose 4 people to play with you know there level so you won’t really be toxic towards them. In fact, in that case the toxicity will be against the other team but this is easier to solve by not having any map chat on PvP maps.

Agreed – sadly you can’t 100% team games.

So my suggestion : create “fake” leagues (with less rewards upon crossing tiers but keeping the possibility of Legendary rewards) in unranked and make ranked (with proper rewards and leaderboard) for team only (no ranked soloQ any more).

This is actually a good idea.

I mean – raids are 10 man things – so why not these? 5 man teams sound good.

Ellie.5913:

Harper.4173:

Ellie.5913:

Ohhhh a cyber bully/verbal abuser post trying to justify why they have the right to verbally abuse people , NICE. This kinda reminds me of the show COPS while the dude gets arrested and hand cuffed hes talking the whole time trying to explain why he did what he did and how he was justified in committing the crime and shouldn’t be arrested for it, and should be allowed to commit crimes without any consequences grabs pop corn Carry on.

Cyber bully? Right.
I’ve had my fair share of vents in PvP. Some were nice – some might not have been so nice.
However – I’ve noticed a trend with people.
Anything you say is “abuse” to some.

Also I wasn’t justifying anything – in order to fix a problem one must first understand it. And as it seems Anet has not understood that you can’t match very good and very committed players with low skill carefree people and not have an issue there.

Matchmaking is poor at the moment – and that’s why you’re getting these problems.

Sorry dude, but the problem isn’t the people playing this or any other game to have fun and be happy. The problem of toxicity is within yourself. It’s not normal to be angry and always lashing out and insulting people and putting them down and all that stuff. The only way to fix this is for you to go see a psychiatrist and maybe get put on meds, that might help you with your problem, removing gamers from your game however, won’t. Goodluck.

I’m glad you’re also a certified MD now. Well – if you actually want an expert’s opinion no – what you said is not the solution.
I’m perfectly sane – what I do need is people to realize that there is a middle ground.

Nobody said anything about removing anyone from the game. Are you finding it difficult to comprehend the written word?

I just said – in short – don’t match casual or new players with veteran invested players. That simple.

Guhracie.3419:

The one you posted first certainly sounds like the fault lies with the people who PvP in a “happy-go-lucky” fashion. Then you amend it to mean that the people who are playing in a way that doesn’t suit you should somehow be filtered out so that players (like yourself?) are not compelled to curse them out?
Yeahhh. Right. “It’s not my fault I scream at you! If you weren’t so happy/clueless all the time, I wouldn’t have to do this! Why do you make me so angry, baby?” That is what you are saying.

I am saying something else entirely. Regardless of what you and others wish – we can’t, won’t and never will live in a carebear society. And I’m ok with that.
However – if hostility is a problem to some people – a problem BIGGER apparently than something they can solve themselves by turning off their chat or ignoring the “toxic players” then Anet might want to improve the system.

The best way IMO is to reduce contact between the groups that create this conflict.
Clueless and inexperienced players DO NOT MIX with players that are on point and want to win and get stuff done. They just don’t.
What’s going to come out of that mix is nothing but toxicity and hurt feelings.

And I know you’d like to hear that the ones who are toxic are in the wrong but honestly – they’re not the only ones in the wrong.

Because if you go in and ruin the experience for 4 other players you can’t really expect them to be happy about it can you?

People who are toxic to new/inexperienced players do it for two reasons:

1.They’re genuinely so upset they cannot control themselves any more.
2.They want to make sure the newbie people get out and stay out.

Is this ok? Maybe not. But I can certainly understand why they’re doing it.

I do not support Anet’s decision and implementation of leagues and do not consider leagues should be somewhere where people go to “try to learn” PvP.

You have hotjoin and unranked for that.

Guhracie.3419:

Never mind the fact that there’s absolutely no way for anet to quantify what you’re asking for.

Yes there is – there are metrics they can look at:

-PvP player level.
-Time spent in PvP matches
-Time spent on a class
-MMR

A more complex algorithm could create better teams for everyone. Including those on the receiving end of the toxicity.

Guhracie.3419:

Never mind that telling people to turn off chat as a way to avoid being exposed to verbal abuse is making the problem worse. (the ability to turn off chat does not put the people getting death threats at fault, despite your claims to the opposite)

This part I do not understand. Put them at fault? It protects them from being insulted. How is that a problem?

Guhracie.3419:

The fact that, in your head, you are perfectly comfortable with this stance of, “filthy casuals just get what they have coming to them, and if it weren’t for their filth, most of the toxicity would decrease in pvp” and you legitimately believe it is actually extremely sad, to me.

I am comfortable with this stance:

Before I start any game type where my performance influences others I have the common courtesy and decency to at least have a broad idea of what is supposed to be going on.
I don’t go in head first to ruin things for others. I watch, read, learn and practice before I do something where my failure might drag others down.

Before I did ranked in GW2 pvp I did a long spree of unranked until I had more than average mastery over my class of choice. Before unranked I did hotjoin.

Is the common courtesy of “if you’re going to show up know what you are doing” too much?
I understand that some people are slower, not as good at executing moves and so on – but at least you should have the theoretical knowledge down before you start leagues.

You should know that if the enemy has 4 mid – and you are alone – going mid to let them kill you is a bad idea.

I also believe PvP will always be toxic – but it’s been much more toxic ever since leagues launched. Ask any long-time PvP player.

Guhracie.3419:

You’ve read what is intended in leagues. Maybe if you don’t like the casual players, you should go pro? Or pull together 4 of the people in this thread who agree with you and form a team? There are already measures in place to avoid getting paired up with people who are “clueless” or “casual.” And they are methods that do line up with the terms of use. Try them.

It’s not that simple.
It’s not a dichotomy – you’re casual or pro. There are tiers of skill and dedication when it comes to PvP.
Maybe I can’t go pro – but that doesn’t mean I’m supposed to be casual or accept the newest of the new with open arms – especially when their plays are the reason we lose.
Forming a team is another way – but it’s pretty hard to find people and run together with 4 others at all time – I do this sometimes – can’t always do it.

And ultimately – neither the more serious nor the casuals own PvP – both should be able to play alone if they want to – and ideally they should meet each other as little as possible.

alain.1659:

If you are cursing someone just for a bad game and your personal bad day, you are a poopy-hole. And that is certain. If it is someone’s part of the daily routine, that person should go and practice it away from the computer.

But there should be a difference between ranked and unranked. I am a casual player, so I do not want to play in “the league”. But every now and then I want to play pvp, so I log into the unranked usually (if I do not have a team). I think there are many like me.

On the other hand there are people who are not that good but insist on ranked. So there should be a minimum skill/lvl cap for the ranked, you are right. But how can you decide if someone is worthy? You ask him/her to wield the might Mjöllnir? There are several people in lvl 80 who do not have the necessary skill, who gained his/her rank by just rank farming. It will be hard to decide without resetting the previous rank system properly

Arbitrarily – just like Anet does now.
There’s a restriction for playing leagues and ranked – it’s level 20 in PvP at the moment.
There’s how Anet did it – they did it arbitrarily -they chose a level. I’m just saying that the problem is still here in a big way – so maybe that number of level restriction has to be higher.

There are far fewer players of low skill who grinded to 80 than there are people with low skill in lower ranks.

Trigr.6481:

Harper.4173:

So I was on reddit a few minutes ago and some happy poster posted this:

One solution I propose to fix this would be a PvP rank requirement for entry into leagues of let’s say 60. I understand this can be farmed too – but I doubt most “casual” PvPers will bother with farming it that high.

You just debunked your own suggestion, therefore making your idea of a “fix” meaningless.

Excuse me -how?

I do realize the solution isn’t perfect – that’s what I meant – but I feel it will alleviate a lot of the problem even if it won’t make it go away entirely.

Yes there will be bad and casual players with a rank of 60+ but I’m pretty sure there will be significantly LESS of them.

Or perhaps people should be matched based not only on “skill” reflected through MMR but also through another parameter such as “lifetime number of ranked games played” or “lifetime minutes spent in non-hotjoin PvP games”.

Maybe that would help.

Ellie.5913:

Ohhhh a cyber bully/verbal abuser post trying to justify why they have the right to verbally abuse people , NICE. This kinda reminds me of the show COPS while the dude gets arrested and hand cuffed hes talking the whole time trying to explain why he did what he did and how he was justified in committing the crime and shouldn’t be arrested for it, and should be allowed to commit crimes without any consequences grabs pop corn Carry on.

Cyber bully? Right.
I’ve had my fair share of vents in PvP. Some were nice – some might not have been so nice.
However – I’ve noticed a trend with people.
Anything you say is “abuse” to some.

Also I wasn’t justifying anything – in order to fix a problem one must first understand it. And as it seems Anet has not understood that you can’t match very good and very committed players with low skill carefree people and not have an issue there.

Matchmaking is poor at the moment – and that’s why you’re getting these problems.

Silberfederling.9302:

Harper.4173:

Silberfederling.9302:

Yeah nice try.
The reason why people behave like cave men is that they can. What is the worst that can happen? 3days time out? 6 months? As long as people have free tries on hating, flaming or death wishes\threats nothing will change. I just killed a 3k AP ranger with my axe auto and he just walked away not dodgeing but after dieing it startet spouting insults and death wishes.
The only thing that will help is perma ban at first offene. No second chances. If you are doing it once chances are that you are morally corrupted enough to do it again. In my country attacking a child of 12 years with death threats is not something to be laughed about. This game is for children of 12 years. I really have to wonder who in their right mind to still Quote the sticks and stones BS. It is sick that this goes under “not so Bad as buying gold” and these people remain. Oh block you say?
As far as the pvp forum goes i read so far that blocking is for special snowflake kitten? Right.
No, you can try to explain and describe or seek for scapegoats all you want. Anti social behavior like this has its root in the people that hate post. And as long as you let this cancer untouched, it will spread and grow.

Because perma banning people who’ve had a bad day and are angry and curse after a PvP game is a solid way to maintain a good and healthy player base.
Nobody cares if someone called you something mean. It’s words. Ignore it, close your chat if you must.

Honestly this sort of post makes me lose faith in humanity.
Morally corrupt? Do you have any idea how much cursing is part of our daily routine? You can’t just “ban” players for it.
Especially when YOU have the power to protect yourself. Close off your chat – there – safe.

If you believe conflict between people is “antisocial” then you don’t really understand what society is.

Yes i Start to think people like you just do not care.
Death threats are death threats and if you think you can try to lecture me about society on a games forum defending idiots and psychopaths as persons with a Bad day then do not complain and seek excuses. People go to therapy due to online harrassment. Good for you that you are such a grown up boy. Oh and don’t complain that i was condescending or had an attitude. Just ignore me i had a Bad day.
It is Kind of a sad excuse right?

First of all you are wrong. It’s mostly people having a bad day – not criminal scum and psychopaths and whatnot as you might believe.

deed, Lin’s team found that only about 1% of players were consistently toxic. But it turned out that these trolls produced only about 5% of the toxicity in League of Legends. “The vast majority was from the average person just having a bad day,” says Lin. They behaved well for the most part, but lashed out on rare occasions.

http://www.nature.com/news/can-a-video-game-company-tame-toxic-behaviour-1.19647

Second of all people go to therapy for a lot of reasons – some valid – some not.

Also – online harassment is not the same thing as having some negativity thrown at you in PvP in GW2.
I think the fact that you would consider the two equivalent underlines how little you understand what online harassment is.

Also criticizing you is not me “complaining”.
Did you see me asking Anet for a permaban for you? Or asking them to censor you because my fragile little emotional self can’t handle it?

Silberfederling.9302:

Yeah nice try.
The reason why people behave like cave men is that they can. What is the worst that can happen? 3days time out? 6 months? As long as people have free tries on hating, flaming or death wishes\threats nothing will change. I just killed a 3k AP ranger with my axe auto and he just walked away not dodgeing but after dieing it startet spouting insults and death wishes.
The only thing that will help is perma ban at first offene. No second chances. If you are doing it once chances are that you are morally corrupted enough to do it again. In my country attacking a child of 12 years with death threats is not something to be laughed about. This game is for children of 12 years. I really have to wonder who in their right mind to still Quote the sticks and stones BS. It is sick that this goes under “not so Bad as buying gold” and these people remain. Oh block you say?
As far as the pvp forum goes i read so far that blocking is for special snowflake kitten? Right.
No, you can try to explain and describe or seek for scapegoats all you want. Anti social behavior like this has its root in the people that hate post. And as long as you let this cancer untouched, it will spread and grow.

Because perma banning people who’ve had a bad day and are angry and curse after a PvP game is a solid way to maintain a good and healthy player base.
Nobody cares if someone called you something mean. It’s words. Ignore it, close your chat if you must.

Honestly this sort of post makes me lose faith in humanity.
Morally corrupt? Do you have any idea how much cursing is part of our daily routine? You can’t just “ban” players for it.
Especially when YOU have the power to protect yourself. Close off your chat – there – safe.

If you believe conflict between people is “antisocial” then you don’t really understand what society is.

Archon.6480:

Yes, if we could only stop people from playing this game to “have fun” all our problems would go away.

Go to work if you wanna have fun! Leave gaming for the serious folks!

You missed my point entirely.

There are people who only want their wins.
There are people who just want to “have fun and goof off”.

Their goals are different. Pairing them together is a recipe for disaster. In the end people will get at each other’s throats and nothing good will come of it.

Is it so hard to understand?

When one group’s goals interfere with another group’s goals conflict appears. The solution is to group people of similar goals and equal skill and knowledge appropriately.

Wolfric.9380:

It should work if divisions seperate players per skill… but this process is not finalized and a mess… And the multiple profession thing causing players to use multiple professions burns the cake … I am a good examle. I main elementalist and can stand against most very competative. If i play my alt warrior i would not dare to say i am worth saphire + and if i use anything else more then amber is to much ….
So lets say i made it to diamond with ele and then want the backpiece ….. Hooray …..
fortunately i am staisfied with ascended …

Exactly – I can play two classes really well – Warrior and Rev. Asking me to do another profession is handicapping those people. Because while I can play the first two and go toe to toe with high diamon/legendary players ( at least last season) on anything else I’m sapphire-tier at best. And that doesn’t help my team at all.

azyume.6321:

Introducing PvP Leagues

But there’s one piece missing in our vision of PvP—one feature on that road map that was to serve as a place for beginning PvP players as well as up-and-coming PvP talent to compete, see progress, set goals, and be rewarded. We have regular competitive events for our top PvP teams; now we’re adding a system that allows everyone to compete and be rewarded. I’m excited to announce our PvP League feature for Guild Wars 2.

Problem is people trying to make out of the League something that isn’t. Saying casuals shouldn’t play? That’s people generating toxicity when Anet stated themselves the league was made for every kind of player. If one have a high competitive drive, they should try to aim and focus on the weekly tournaments and the Pro League more than the League.

Then Anet has to figure out a way to keep newbie or starter players with other newbie or starter players and more experienced players with more experienced players.

The toxicity starts the moment you get a guy on your team that has no clue what to do. And I expect that in amber or emerald even. But what’s something like that doing in Ruby?

Ruby is 2 tiers away from “legendary” – I’m thinking that at least in theory we should not be seeing “new” or “inexperienced” players there.

Also the toxicity has increased not because of “high competitive drive” – we all know that any decent player with a high competitive drive won’t bother with THIS game’s PvP – because it isn’t really worth it.
The reason people have PvPd a lot recently is the backpiece. People have a high-reward drive – and all that “toxicity” that comes with people wanting their reward and being upset with others that get in their way has now spilled into PvP on top of the already existing “normal” PvP toxicity.

I agree- the PvP backpiece was a good idea on paper.
I do agree that some incentive was necessary but the execution IMO is pretty poor.
Also the multiple class thing is a problem because honestly most people only really master one class – having to play multiple will most certainly create some issues.

I like it as well – why should it be taken out again?

So I was on reddit a few minutes ago and some happy poster posted this:

It is the same immaturity that plagues other PvP and FPS games and the problem is certainly not the people that are just there to play casually/have fun.

It was posted in a topic where people were discussing toxicity and its causes.
Well one of the causes is right there – in his post.

If you are playing PvP casually in a happy-go-lucky way you should not be playing in leagues.

I think Anet should take steps to make it more clear that people that just want to “play some pvp” but have no idea what PvP is, how it works and so on should be encouraged to not play leagues.

The real reason for toxicity as far as I see it is being matched with clueless people that don’t listen and go into PvP with the wrong attitude.

One solution I propose to fix this would be a PvP rank requirement for entry into leagues of let’s say 60. I understand this can be farmed too – but I doubt most “casual” PvPers will bother with farming it that high.

Also to those of you who will be asking – why not post this on reddit – the answer is: I dislike reddit and believe that discussion regarding GW2 should take place on the official forums – not some 3rd party website.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Excuse me while I put on my “Captain Explains Things” codpiece and recount history for a bit.

The original trait system we had was quite free form. Given 70 points, we were allowed to invest any number of points into any line, and once we had sufficient points we could grab any trait along that line. This would also give us status bonuses depending which lines we invested in. This system… was scrapped. Largely because Anet found in testing that free-form trait choice lead to the ability to make some seriously overpowered builds. Having no better way to deal with the horrible build inequality that would arise from the situation, the “adept-master-grandmaster” tiering system was made. This provide at least some form of exclusion along the traits.

However, all was not well. We still had to deal with difficult trait balancing, even more so since physical stats were still tied to the trait system. After awhile, Anet noticed an anomaly among player trends. There was a large portion (I can’t remember the exact number, so lets just say significant enough) of players who, quite frankly, couldn’t build themselves right. One of the most popular builds in the game was the 14/14/14/14/14 build, where players would distribute their trait points evenly across all lines. Back then, the system was designed so you would specialize into different lines, and it gave you a new trait choice for every 5 points. So players would instinctively distribute their points in the literally worst possible way.

After a horrible NPE update and a couple of attempts to lock traits behind achievements, the system before was scrapped almost entirely, and now we have the new specialization system. While the freeform point allocation could work well for players who liked to theorycraft or listen to theorycrafters, the system was too idiot-prone to function. The current system we have now was designed specifically to minimize the chances that a player is going to build themselves into ineffectiveness.

As much as I’d like to see the build system become more diverse, the dreaded 14 × 6 build problem still exists. Any complicated system proposed would have to either accommodate for the fact that players will use it incorrectly, or have to convince Anet that it is O.K. for players to build themselves horribly.

This could be summed up – sadly- to “Anet made this system because most people are terrible at the game”.

It’s really sad that we have to lose complexity because too many people would be incapable of building themselves.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Harper.4173:

WC is a grind – you do it – you can’t fail it. Eventually you get it done. It’s a time gate.
Items of high prestige should have skill gates.

I often wonder how many of the people who complain about World Completion being a grind actually go doing champion trains, or Silverwaste Chest farms etc. Farms which again, one can’t fail.

The thing is that the grind there results in profit – which can be used for anything.
The grind in WC only helps one thing. And is only useful after ALL of the grind is done.

BrotherBelial.3094:

stale.9785:

I actually support this – and I have no plans of getting a legendary.

Really, what I’d like isn’t quite the same. I want a map-maker NPC. Once you’ve completed the world completion, your other characters ought to be able to visit the mapmaker and have all the WP’s in the world unlocked, for a fee.

While this wouldn’t remove all the tedium from repeating world completion, it ought to help at least.

You know you don’t have to do world completion right? It took me less than 6 hours to grab every HC in the game bar 2 in DS that are locked behind masteries I don’t have yet. Now if I can get “all” HC’s that quickly. Waypoints would take way less. You could probably grab every way point in the game in about 2-3 hours.

The problem aren’t WPs, or HCs – HEARTS are the real problem. That and some vistas – because they take time.
While I agree that the vistas do take some skill – and I think that’s fine – the hearts are absurdly stupid.

They don’t require any amount of thought or skill – 80% of them can be done by just killing what’s around – but they take time. A lot of time. There’s 300 something of them in game.
If you spend 5 minutes on a heart that’s 1.5 minutes – that adds up to one whole day (25 hours) doing nothing but mindless droning.

Why?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Harper.4173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem I see with catering to the OP’s desire to make gaining a Legendary weapon easier is this. There are many different players who want to make L. weapons. Many of them will dislike some part of gaining what it take to make the item. Once Anet sets the precedent that they will cave to one request to make the process less demanding, the flood of calls to eliminate the part of the process other players hate will flood in. There will be no justification to say, “No!” to those players once they’ve said, “Yes!” to the OP. This would have an overall detriment to the health of the game.

They already caved and did this when they listened to all the QQ from the carebears who couldn’t complete WvW map completion – so they took it out.
I don’t see why they couldn’t do it again.

While I agree that that was a mistake, I think that further caving could lead to even more demands for making things “less grindy” — whatever that means.

And i agree.
Legendaries shouldn’t take time to make – but skill.

WC is a grind – you do it – you can’t fail it. Eventually you get it done. It’s a time gate.
Items of high prestige should have skill gates.

Yeah – you can see it that way – but then again they could always have done something similar with core GW2 maps.
Done WC once ? you’re done – and justified it with the fact that they would be adding new maps such kitten or DT.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem I see with catering to the OP’s desire to make gaining a Legendary weapon easier is this. There are many different players who want to make L. weapons. Many of them will dislike some part of gaining what it take to make the item. Once Anet sets the precedent that they will cave to one request to make the process less demanding, the flood of calls to eliminate the part of the process other players hate will flood in. There will be no justification to say, “No!” to those players once they’ve said, “Yes!” to the OP. This would have an overall detriment to the health of the game.

They already caved and did this when they listened to all the QQ from the carebears who couldn’t complete WvW map completion – so they took it out.
I don’t see why they couldn’t do it again.

Vayne.8563:

See I handle map completion differently. As I’m running around doing stuff, going from place to place, I do easy stuff. I do a bit at a time. I don’t have to stay and finish a heart. I can go and destroy two centaur traps. Next time I run past, another two. I’m in these areas enough.

I’ll just gather and do other stuff and as I go, eventually the world is complete.

It’s only a problem if you have to do is now.

First of all I agree with OP – once you’ve done it a few times it becomes mindlessly tiring and not fun at all. I recently just finished map completion a second time – first time being on release- and it is a painful and boring experience.

Now to address Vayne’s points:

You’re right but only regarding your own play style. Even if you don’t need to rush ( I didn’t) map completion requires two distinct things:

-That you play in all ( or most maps) – which I don’t – nor do I have a reason to.
-That you play another character that hasn’t completed the map – which i very rarely do and then only in WvW/PvP or instanced content.

So yes – it isn’t so easy unless your enjoyment of the game and what you do in the game focuses on low-mid tier areas while playing alts. Which a lot of us don’t do.

I feel it’s fair that once you’ve done it once, maybe twice, you be allowed to have an alternative – spending gold/tokens/whatever – to save yourself the useless grind.

I get that it should be mandatory for legendaries- do it once – it proves you’ve been everywhere – seen everything.
Do it twice? Three times? Ten times? Why? What’s the point? It’s not proving skill, it’s nothing but the most boring and basic time-gate in the game.

And I’d accept even a time gated alternative – if it meant not having to do the same boring hearts over and over like a level 20 newbie.

Moyayuki.3619:

Hexinx.1872:

Whenever I’m in WvW and see Keep capturer… I feel your pain. Generally means I have to do a PvE daily, which is against my playstyle.

I also like legendaries, think they are pretty aesthetically pleasing … was kittened when I found out I had to run (shudders) dungeons. Instead of coming to the forum and letting anet know what they are doing wrong (imho of course) … guess what I do.

Has one job … Does it.

But I mean, I totally see where you are coming from. World completion used to require WvW points of interest. Guess what the PvE community did? Got them removed, so there hope for you yet.

Keep this thread on anets radar and maybe just maybe … they will give you more pve options (that you also may not like, and we will hear back on that sequel)

~X

Back when WvW was required for world completion, I did my best to get them done. I think I may have gotten them done right before the requirement was taken out. Needless to say, it wasn’t easy, but it was my choice. It worked out great when other players weren’t trying to kill me. Wish I could have worn a tag that indicated I was only trying to complete the map and wasn’t in there to fight. :P

The ones that aren’t there to fight are always the tastiest ones to chase down and slay.
If you had worn that tag I guarantee you would have gotten twice the attention.

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

If I want fun rewards sometimes I need to do stuff that is not fun.

If someone was offering money to people to eat cow poo IRL, each person would have to do a cost/benefit analysis of how much money it would take for them to eat cow poo. Some would say that they wouldn’t do it even if offered a million dollars. Others would do it simply on a dare with no money required. Obviously there is a scale of discomfort to reward.

I would like a legendary weapon, but I am not going to do the huge amount of WORK to craft one. So I simply won’t get one. It’s not that big a deal – most people don’t get the ultimate best thing they want in games. How many people farm content thousands of times in other MMOs trying to get a rare drop that they never get? People in this game farm the Mystic Toilet and spend hundreds or thousands of gold trying for a drop that they never get.

I’m just skipping to the “never get” part without doing all that work / discomfort lol.

Congratulations.
The problem is however that a lot of people (not saying it’s you) complain that they don’t have the items they never bother to earn in game.
And worst of all – they get upset at the people that do have them and do earn them and say it’s somehow unfair.

Djinn.9245:

Harper.4173:

Djinn.9245:

vesica tempestas.1563:

wvw can be casual, pvp can be casual it and they take no effort, you simply do what you enjoy doing. Walking up to a wvw vendor and buying a thingy take no effort, walking up to a vista takes no effort. etc etc

WvW and PvP might be EASY – if there are no opposing players when you walk in and you can accomplish your goal without conflict, that would be easy. But for those who don’t enjoy PvP conflict, even the potential for that to occur makes those activities UNfun. And since a majority of the Daily list are WvW and PvP, that means for those players who simply dislike PvP conflict and want to avoid it, the Dailies are heavily weighted against them. Of the remaining PvE options, if one is a World Boss and you don’t have that kind of time, that further restricts your choices.

Therefore Dailies are weighted against casual players.

If you are being serious you are hands down my favorite person right now.
I can’t even believe you might be serious – but here’s hoping.

That aside – without the possibility of conflict there is no possibility for reward.
See how simple that was?

I am being serious, but I don’t understand what: “without the possibility of conflict there is no possibility for reward” has to do with this topic. Clearly there is possibility for reward without conflict in a lot of GW2. And since we’re speaking of PvP conflict, obviously most of GW2 doesn’t have that. Just in the dailies.

If you want to do your daily PvP matches and get your rewards – you can’t do that without PvP.

Guild wars 2 has easy dailies- it’s just not the ones you like.

It took me one day to fill my orders.

You mean last week when you could get all of them cheaply right?