Guild Wars 2

I actually dont like the idea of tying them to anything in the LS, but rather have us learn them by doing a good old fashioned questline with a master.
It is more personal and imersive that way, as it would give a feeling of: Hey, Chronomancer, that is totaly a thing in the open world and nothing new. Reaper, check out this guy, he is one of these special necromancer, who dedicated their time to master a big clunky weapon.

I wouldnt want it in the LS, because they have allready problems fitting anything else into it, that isnt their mainstory at the moment.
Putting it outside, gives them way more flexibility, doesnt tie them down to the maincast and allows them to use more characters in the world

Exalted
I dont really know why you want to corrupt the Exalted, it they are allready following Glints legacy.

In case of evil dragon child, they would follow their belief. I mean they sacrificed everything for that cause.
Before any of them realizes that things go wrong, a lot could happen.
They are like the white mantle at this point, except, maybe, a bit nicer?

The Ritual
The forgotten performed the ritual, that is true.
I might have mingled that up with the fact that they created them, based on Glints predictions.
Which in turn puts her in the position of the brain behind the operation.
She made the prediction and the forgotten followed.

As we know of none forgotten left at the moment and Glint being dead, it is kinda hard to see who took charge here.

However I see a possibility of Glint, in her time time with the forgotten, was able to learn from them.

Glints army
What if creating minions would have costed her too much energy, at that cruicial time?
The Exalted followed the prophecy of her dead, not her survival. They could ahve been plan B (protection of her race).

If plan A was the one with the highest possibility to succeed (because it was early in the ED lifecycle, etc. ) in her eyes, but still had the possibility of her dead, that would automaticly plan A, self sacrifice.

In any case, she would weaken Kalkratorik, would secure the Charr and Humans for a while and would gain the trust of more influencal people at the same time.

Every other plan, that would need more time, would give the EDs more time to device countermessures and would have a higher possibility of them to fail as well.

She was ready to put all of herself in that fight.
If she (or the writers at that point, we dont know) knew about her dead. Wouldnt you call the Exalted yourself?
Why would she let herself killed, if she had these assets, if not by willingly holding them back for something else.

Again, we don`t know if her goals are good or bad. Just that we don`t know her endgame and if it is good for us or not.

@Konig

Exalted
Yes, that is the beauty of it.
I never talked about how the Exalted should be corrupted.
They are allready willing to do everything for Glints prophecy. That naturally means if he prophecy says sacrifice yourself for me, then it seems like they would do it.
While they still have their free will, they seem still be able to be influenced. We don`t know everything they know.
By all means, they could be the army to fight against EDs, be the army for the new ED infused child or its foodsource for a kickstart.

I mean, Glint was the one who performed or deviced the ritual, as she got in from the forgotten. Do you think she has no way of dispelling, or getting around that spell? She had a long time to learn.

Furthermore it would be the perfect defense. We know that ED could corrupt each others minions under the right circumstances.
The exalted would be working like a mercenary force, if we get any Glint offspring ED minions.

Just ebcause they would be the perfect soldiers to fight the ED, doesnt mean they couldnt be used for something else. In that case they are like very other weapon.

Murssat
I have to admit, this was just a thought on the side, so please excuse my randomness before.

Glint lived several hundred years uncorrupted. She had a lot of time to look at the world and analyse her ressources for the next ED rising.
The Mursaat would have been one of these powerfull assets at her disposal. Since she is playing the role of a puppetmaster, someone who influences people from afar, she might have been able to take advantage of them.
However we know how the Mursaat are. They are backstabbers and rather save themselves, then others.
I think Glint thought the same and put her eyes more on other races. Her prophetic ability alowed her to deal with the Mursaat along the way. The Flameseekers prophecy.
The Mursaat came back with their own goals and in letting them know of the prophecy, she ensured their doom and also freed the krytan humans.
We dont know how far the Mursaat would have gone, since all we knew, was that their goal was to stop the prophecy. However doubt they would have let go of their control of the human race.
The fact that she did in some way helped with the revenge of the forgotten, is a nice bonus.

Nevertheless. The humans were now free to develope themselves and unite better (more or less, but that is free will for you), without the Mursaat putting an additional strain on the races intern workings (The Mursaat also took control from the shadows, leaving the humans mostly in the dark)

Again, just a possibility.

Her dead
Well, if Plan A was the plan she thought would be the one with the highest sucessrate, it would make sense.
Then making herself vulnerable for the opening would be the way to go. Furthermore if she had other Plans in the background, that would ensure the further safety of race for example.
She might have seen herself as a piece in her greater puzzle.
I mean, if she had succeded, she would have a win win scenario.
Even if she died, other things were already in motion.
Though you are right. She could have used more assets , however I am unsure if she still had acess to them.
We dont really know what happened to all of them and she said that several adventures tried to slay her, if I am not mistaken.

Also, it could be writers oversight. I dont know.

Also, her vision might have seen her die and the others survive. So that would still make sense in a twisted way.
Going down, but keeping the rest alive.

However we are talkign about plans of a dead one. A dead one who was playing several chessgames at once.
Who really knows what her play was.

Religion
I shouldn`t have used that word so easily.
I think a better word would be followers.

Exalted
So? They are described roughly as magic gatherer.
They aren`t dragion minions.
However they gather magic.
They store magic.

I just stated the fact that EDs consume magic. They are basicly a walking feast for them.
Their protection is against other EDs, not against Glint and her offspring, who deviced that magic protection.

Why would you want your army/foodsource be easily taken from the enemy?

Mursaat
Okay, I need to step back here a bit.
When she was cleansed, it was by the forgotten.
The EDs went into their sleep.
Glint had a lot of time to look at the world and plan.
The Mursaat were just a contender. However Glint is just a puppetmaster.
The Mursaat were just too selfish.
Humans and other races would be the better choice.
With the flameseekers prophecies she took care of that and even did something for the forgotten at the same time.
Now Humans and the other races were free to develope themselves into what they are today.

Her dead
We take all her words for granted.
However this is only under the assumption that she only had one plan to beginn with.

Why would she tell the Exalted that she would live, if they are plan B. the plan which is set into motion, when she dies.
Even if she survived, she could have appeared and set things right for herself.

She had enough time to formulate plans. Even additional plans if things fail.

The fight with Kalkratorik could have been won by her, if everything would have played out.
However it was never said that she can see everything in the future.

The thing is: She is dead and we can`t ask her what her goal is
We only get snippets. Things that align with our goal.
However we don`t know what her goal is.

She could be the nice dragon who wants the mortal races to live and don`t experience what she did.

She could also be someone who wants revenge and revive her race.

She could also be someone in between.

Additional thing: Glint Revenant
The Glint we have as a revenant doesn`t have to be the Glint who met her end.
She could be a Glint from anywehere in time.
She could be a Glint who didn`t completed her plan.
A Glint who wasn`t was bitter and maybe even want`s to stop her future self.

Now while that part is cliché, i know, it is still soemthing that would work for a additional story.

I mean, we are now following Glints Legacy. Our goal shifted to her, from the eldar dragons at the moment.
She is one of the oldest characters in the series and we know only bits and pieces of her.

Again, it is a possibility, simply based on the fact that everyone we ever encounter, either doesn`t tell us enough or only knows pieces of her puzzle.

I would have gathered more intel.
I mean, was it even stated that we knew enough about Mordremoth?

We went into great detail with Zaithan.

Were we just so hyped about or victory there, that we just went on and though: “Yeah, same tactic again. This one should be even weaker.”

Well, the Sylvari thing was kinda unfortunate, but how aboutat least a two wave attack?
Not everything at once.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Dragon champions are all 100% capable of creating minions. This is actually the main method for Elder Dragons to create minions – by creating minion-producing champions. Such as the Blighting Trees and Vinewrath for Mordremoth.

So, the question would be if she inherited this from being a Champion, or if she was born with it.

We see Kalkratorik corrupt, rather then produce minions at the moment (I don`t remember any non branded right now, aside from The Shatterer)

So yeah. Seems like we are still open on the dragon reproduction details.

I won`t say Glint is evil.
I will just say we shouldn`t trust Glint.

We know that she is a chrystaline like dragon, who was corrupted by Krakatorik.
We know that she is prophetic, that she can see or predict parts of the future.
We know she has offsprings.
We know that she was the writer of the flameseekers prophecies , which doomed the Mursaat.
We know she was cleansed by the forgotten.
We know she has plans in motions concering the eldar dragons.
What we don`t know is: her true goal

Glint is a puppetmaster , she lived for hundreds of years and influenced the world on several occasions.
She also is/was the last of her kind (we know about her ofsprings, but no other adult at this point.)
Which could mean that her race has been consumed, when she was under ED influence.
She is basicaly the mother of her race.

This, alongside the fact that she was corrupted by Kalkratorik, gives her enough reason to seek revenge on them.

It gives her no reason to see us as nothing more than tools for her plans.

She lived a long life and had enough time to see how the world evolves. She also set several plans in motions over time.
She even started religions to follow her teachings (Brotherhood of the Dragon, Zephirites and the Exalted at the moment)
All who are following her, but none of them telling us her goal .
Just that we should trust her.
All we know right now, is that she wants the ED Power and that she or her race is capable of becoming an ED.
However ED power corrupts . The power is dangerous and even if she isn`t consumed by it there is the thing with her race being dead.
Why didn`t she tell us or anyone the reason of why the ED exist? Did she not know?
What reason does she have to protect us?

Because we helped her?
The whole Exalted are willing to sacrifice everything for Glints vision.
They allready sacrificed their mortal body and everything they possessed.
They are living magic container and EDs consume magic.
Who says that the vision doesnt see them as a jumpstart for her/her offsprings.

Does she really see us first and not her family and race?
Does she want to become a ED that is on our side?

If she needed an army, why didnt she use the powerful Mursaat?
She needs an army.
She knows them. They are no army. No soldiers. They are rats who rather leave the boat, instad of going down fighting.
Mortals, who have to fight for their life and have a limtied lifespan are much easier to control in that regard.

She is dead
Yes. She fell thanks to the power of love.
It is said she is good at predicting things, but not that she is perfect at it.
However, she lived a long life and thought of a legacy.
A plan B (or maybe even plan C?).
Nevertheless, she has several plans in motion.
Some who will take care of her children.

So yeah. Her plans are of use for us at the moment (or we for her).
However we don`t know which role we will play, if everything is said and done.

Sure, but I just wanted to mention that this possibility does exist.

We don´t know where the egss come from.

It could actually be that she allready possesed ED qualitys (though it is not only an ability of the EDs) to create minions/offsprings/beings with magic.

Meh, dont think so.
I think the dragons are just some regulation mechanism for something.
They are power in some way.
Someone will take that power and he/she will be our final boss, as everything that has happened was her/his plan.

Power can corrupt you know and ED-Power has shown that very clearly.

Someone has been stringing us along all along.
Heck, it could even be Glint and her prophcy (there are reasons why this could be possible)
Or just some demon from another plane.

If we look at the Shadow of the Dragon he is cretaed by using a Dragon as a blueprint.

Glint however had been corrupted by Kalkratorik.

Seeing how she could bear eggs after all this time, traditional gender doesnt have to mean anything to their kind.
There are species on earth who can change their gender if needed (to secure their race) and are even able to impregnate themselves (which could explain Glints offsprings)

Most of the time we attribute the gender to the voice, though.

It doesnt have to mean anything, so we could also see them as androgyn.

Are we really a leader of the pact btw.?
I mean we push our little team around and at the beginning we put Laranthier and the others in their place, but after that we aren`t really in any leading postition.

In fact everything else is just regulating itself.
We aren`t really part of any meetings or organize a lot of efforts.

As we are in the open world, we are basicaly one of serveral pact soldiers who help in the fight against Mordremoth.

However everything else is working itself out.

So, while we are the boss/the comander in the story, aside from being called that title and be thanked for our participation, there is just our passive involvement.

I would have liked some parts of the story, where we gather some of the surviving pact leaders and help organize anything.
I think that would have brought the open world and the story itself to a more fleshed out experience.

VanEinstein.5019:

As someone just now going through season 2, something I found disconcerting was that upon my arrival in Prosperity, it was already covered in mordremoth vines. It’s clear that said event isn’t supposed to happen until between episode 1 and 2 of season 2 (the point at which you get a letter from Braham about an attack on the town). From a few videos and the wiki it’s apparent that this wasn’t always the case, but hey, anet is a fan of this one time world change business. Perhaps with the addition of heart of thorns they just figured everyone had already seen that event in the story, so why not have it reflected permanently? Not a fan of that approach.

Even stranger, is that during a segment of S2 e1, you’re asked to talk to the NPC’s in prosperity, and it’s clear that the dialogue of the Charr in the bar was tinkered with to reflect the already boned state of the village/dead npcs. Is this a simple case of anet not being able to make up their mind? Both this and the issue the OP brought up are things I’ll just have to accept if I’m going to enjoy myself, but I can’t help feeling this was sloppy.

It is a compromise. Not a good one, however with no phasing in GW2, there is no other way at the moment.
Theoreticaly they would have to instance that part of the story, to make it more coherend, however as it is now, you have to have a strong suspension of disbelieve and just roll with it.

Trust me, this is one of the smaller problems of their storytelling.

Tom Gore.4035:

I’m pretty sure we stomp the Mordy dream boss with divine fire. At least the animation heavily suggests so.

If so, it is just a methaphorical representation (aka the artist had fun here).
We are in the dream and I dont recall us ascending or getting infused with divine fire.
We are not even the Catalyst.
We left the tool carying the fire with the shadow of the dragon.

Actually isnt that a dropped plotpoint again?
i thought we will create it artificialy to fight Mordremoth.
I mean, it was very effective.

Can we get divine weapons for the future please?

HoT is what they promised. the base for things to come
That is how it was advertised and it is what you get.

Basic mechanics and expansions to the core game, which greatly shift the whole game towards the future developement.

However, by this definition HoT is ready, but it also wont be a completed product, because it was never advertised as such.

This is of course good and bad.
Good for them mostly, as they havent lied.
Good for us, because what we got is good enough to pass and we have the promise of more to come.

Bad, as it will never feel like a true and complete expansion, even though it is called that.
Bad, as they extended their idea of it being the base for the future appearently to everything, even to parts that allready had that base for years (story cough ).

Bugs will alwys be a problem. It is quite different from taking things out of the testing envirmoent into the live game.
You wont really get around that issue.

So was it ready for release? Basicaly yes. However that can be said for dozens of other games.
In compairson with other games, this was really smooth. I personaly had only two bugs, which were quickly resolved.

Yes, it was ready. Am I satisfied? Mostly, but then again, I do compair it with their previous expansions and I expected a bit more meat in general

I can allready answer you one thing:
We won`t get any clear timeframes between the things that happen. We only get a rough order in which they happen.

They clearly abolished the idea of giving us an exact timeline. Like telling us so many days or month have happened.

On one hand it gives them more freedom, as they are not ristricted to a proper timeline anymore (and allows them to have LS and LW work independently. Like LA rebuilding and LS2 + HoT at the same time).

On the other hand it is really frustrating for us, who try to keep the order of events in some way understandable and logical.

We can agree that the rebuilding of LA just happened. It happened somwhere after LS1 and date XY (as HoT has no real timeframe, it could still be destoryed as that happened), however it will certainly be rebuild with LS3, which will bring us there in one way or the other (I am pretty sure we will get some Consortium shenanigans in the future and Evon needs to get his revenge).

However everything else. As long as they avoid dates or mentioning any timeframes, it just happens.
We won`t be able to put a date on it.

Before we were able to pin it down to the releases, which were more or less in a reasonable order, or we were able to suspend our disbelieve, to make things fit (big marionette for example, being a one time event, even though gameplay wise it happened over and over. Canon is, we hold it off, while alternate timeline shows it destroying everyone)

Now, it is all thrown out of the window, because we are missing crucial information.

The story right now is just a little window we look through into the world of Tyria.
That is why we magicaly know mordremoths name, even though we were never introduced to it. it happened off-screen.

it is not good storytelling, but unfortunatly that is all we got.

For order
here my basic idea:
HoT starts with the end of HoT, which means that Caithe took the egg and went deeper into the jungle.
We arrive back in the silverwastes camp —> head towards verdant brink —> meet and help Lanthier —> meet and help the Itzel —> find Eir —> enter Auric Basin and meet Caithe, the Exalted and Faolain —> Do their trials —> hear about Rata Novus —> meet the Nuchlock on our way —> Learn nothing really in RN —> follow Rox and save DE —> Kill the Dragon

while that happens, everyone we meet does something at the same time, so all events that happen, are based around the idea that we get to an in the open world and start them.
They happen independently from our PC doin the story (unfortunatly we also do not have any saying in them. Like planning the attack on the mouth of Mordremoth)

We arrive in Auric Basin, help a little and then we leave everything to these people.
(Which in my opinion is a big flaw in the story. luckily everything works out at the end).

Unfortunatly we have nothing, but a rough order here. These are sidestories, alongside the mainstory, so if anything the timeframe we are looking at is enter Verdant Brink to Mordremoth is dead
Everything happens in that undisclosed timeframe, which could be days or month right now, till they give us another vague date.

@Gorgaan Peaudesang

Exalted
The thing is more about (how in the story and not in the open world), we meet him, he helps us and then he shows us something they could have fabricated.
We are still under the asumption that Mordremoth is able to mess with our minds and since we met him, we got split from the group and run around alone with the exalted.
We then even proceed to just give them the egg.

I know, it is the rushed storytelling, but as I just don`t trust Glint anymore (I am a Shadowrun player, i don`t trust dragons. Even more none with plans that no mortal is able to concive), as she is just too convinient.

Chak
Yes, near the laboratory. What stops new Chaks from getting back into it? They managed it the first time and seeing how the thing is busted I dont think the defensemechanisms are a big hindrance anymore.

@Konig

the egg
Yes, things point there. I blame the rushed story then. Why do we always have to give in so easily…

No one in the falls?
I cant really believe that. We know of the Asura, sure, but we know the White Mantle are at least went in the jungle area.
Also there were several hundreds of years and thanks to our GW1 heroes knowledge of what can be found there. I mean, there is even a temple to Balthazar here, which could have been a place to pilgrim too after it was rediscovered.

Rata Novus
Well, we are still talking about Asura. I ebt they have some nice telescopes around.
However yeah. The map doesnt have to be accurate.

Inquest
So nothings speaks against the idea that the Inquest could have been from ancestors or survivors of Rata Novus.

If they are a recent group, the basic of their Dragon research could have been from Rata Novus.

We dont know who survived. If it is the back stabbing personal gain kind of Asura who mostly got out, then it could easily become Inquest down the line.

I he is the ancestor of a former Rata Novus Asura, he can still be taught by Snaff.
He just might have had another hidden agenda, thanks to his parents.

Well it doesnt have to be, but I like the Idea. I am just unsure about the timeline, though.

Guild
Oh, its that easy? I want a memo as well next time, since apearently I am the Boss now as well.
When did that happen, then? The PS epilog said, that I killed Zaihan alongside DE, if I am not msitaken, and then I wandered around alone gathering my new friends to take down Scarlet, all while they joke about creating their own guild.
When did the transition and inititation happen? Off screen again?

Clothes and armor
Well, he could use their body as a base and deform them. Like everyone else. Its not like he enhanced the others as well (Faolain, moredrem Guard…). I count it more alongside the mordrem frogs we meet, who are jus a darker tone in color, aka reused model

The Dream
He is a Necro and a Fristborn. Yes he could be a conduit, but something like that could have been introduced earlier. I accept the pale tree, as she is the creator, but without a hint, it comes around as very easy solution to a significant problem.

Kassmeer
I know. She just really jumped in scope, when we consider our gamemechanics. It just feels disconected.
On one side she is the sheltered noble (her comments to ansty things for example) and then she is suddenly the master ninja. Yes she had the abilities. However she now uses them in the midst of enemy territory and has no problems with it.

Epilog
I dont like waiting for Elite Content Side Stories/bridge to new content and fill in the gap LS3 . I like my traditional epilog.
However, that might just be me.

Taimi
Yep, in that area. Let them swarm in after her protecors are gone MUHAHAHA

Rata Novus Escape
Which was broken like the one we got in. Also, the nice green star didnt point to the gate, but towards the way we got in, so technicaly we are still there and everythign after it is just a hallucination, thanks to us starving.

But seriously. The thing was broken. How did we get out?

@CureforLiving

Exalted
Big golden City. Even if it didnt shine, they were big ruins. Someone who wandered there might have noticed.

Amor and Clothes
I aaccept that answer

Braham
Sure, however what can he do that others can? Aside from being Eirs Son and smash thing he didnt really do much.
Sure he was Taimis babysitter and started the search for Scarlet for the Norn, but after that?
Yes, we need every help we can get, but I am asking about what skills does he bring to the table? I f it is just smash things we got Rytlock now and he has at least some extra snark with him.
Most of the time I feel like he is just there for reasons and not neccessary for the story (even if he gets a big downer in HoT)

Scarlet
Actually I was mostly joking with that one. Would have been interesting though, as it would bring the Who talked really to her debate down. It could still have been some demon.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Jaken.6801:

Characters get no real development
PC
I don`t know if that was always the case, but him being the optimistic wisecracker who just says: No Problem, it`s all right to everything (well, aside from burning potential Mordrem) and even going Deus Ex Machina for the end, while being without a care in the world for many things he does ( oh, you were supposed to take care of the egg? My mistake, here take it. ).
It would be okay if that was on occasion, but he is like that all the time, meking me question his leadership qualities.
It`s nice to hear him talk again, but for the future, please gives us some checkboxes back where we can adjust his character a little bit. Please.

So I know opinions are opinions, but still I have to disagree with you here. I think the PC was by far the best written character in this storyline. Most of it came from the fact that he was so wasted in the original PS. In the last third the PC was named second in command of the Pact, yet you never felt it. It was always NPCs telling you what to do where to go, the only decision making was Trahearne asking you what you think would be the better plan of attack.
But in HoT there is no one above you, no one giving you tasks. The PC is the shotcaller and no one else. Caithe running away with the egg? B*tch let me handle that, I’m the boss. Rytlock coming back from the Mists all kitten? He still listens when I raise my voice. That’s the kind of character I want to play. I 1vs1 a dragon champion if I have to, there is no one who can give me orders and they know it.
The plot about chasing the egg was kinda pointless I admit that, but it wasn’t the PC acting dumb, it was Caithe’s fault through and through. After seeing what the PC can do she still trusts him so little that she thinks she has to deliver the egg? Seriously? I have no problem with the PC giving the egg to the Exalted, I think he is smart enough to see that these are the guys the Master of Peace wanted to reach.
And the last point: I don’t think the PC was nonchalant about the whole situation. I mean this might be a voice acting thing, I played the german version and my Norn did sound concerned yet optimistic. Pretty much what I expect him to be in this situation. He is a Norn after all, he simply does not care about the odds. I have to play it on my Charr too, but I guess the voice acting will be comparable.
All things said, I think the PC was handled really well and he struck me as a much better leader then Trahearne has ever been. And since the PC not being written well and not feeling like a commander was one of my biggest peeves with the original PS, I’m pretty happy with how he turned out. It feels like my concern were heard. I mean I actually once wrote an kind off “open letter” to Bobby Stein about this problem, so now I feel like he read it.

I understand where you come from.
Basicaly most of my problems can just be brought back to the short nature of the story. We just spend a little time with our PC actually talking and most of it is short to the point and then suddenly everything is okay, lets tackle the enxt plotpoint.

The fact that we can only at (aprox.) two points go to the other characters and ask them a little bit more about how they feel

Dont get me wrong. I didnt dislike him. It is just that there were some occasions where he acted way too rash and then disregarded other things way to easily.

Yes he is supposed to be smart. He acted smart. he said the right words. However that made him very unrealistic, as he had an answer to almost everything.

Again, most of it is due to how quick the problems have been tackled. Thus it created a way different image in my head, as maybe intended.

@ the Taimi stuff.
Yeah. She wanted respect. She certainly does deserve some respect. However she is still a child.
She is smart, sure. However she is still ill.
The storyline from us being cautious about her, her standing up to us and then we say You did good, stay with your new toys is fine in theroy, however it was only aprox an hour.
An hour in which she did the same thing, she always did. Being an kitten Asura.
We know that allready.
However she still sacrificed her Golem, a tool she needs and then stayed behind in an infested Area, without any working defense.
Yes she might be able to build something, however till then she is defensless and the Chack have proven to breach into the city.

Yes, she deserves praise for her work. However she is a brain character. She needed her brawns to stay with the group or survive alone.
I by all means would have never let her stay with her new toys.
Moreover not in the way she nonchalant tells us: Oh, I cant help you without Scruffy, maybe I should stay here with my delicous data.

No. I might sound hard, but No. This was a very stupid justification here and I would have only let her stay, till some kind of help had arrived.

Right now she just wants to get the hand on her data first, without any regard for anyone else. Her tone makes it very clear.
She has reached something new, entursted the whole fight to us and is now heads deep in her new research.
Bah…

Okay, I have finished. Let`s start just with the ones from the top of my head:

- What was Mordremoths big plan again? I thought he was very intelligent.
- What was the Egg for and why do we give it away so easily?
- Why did no one find the exalted in all these years?
- Why are the druids imlmemented so half-hearted.
- Why were there nobles in the attack?
- Why is Rata Novus, supposeldy visible from Rata Sum, not visible?
- Are Inquest part of former Rata Novus survivors?
- Where was the supposed Nightmare Court?
- Where does the amulet of Kryta come into play?
- Where are the inquest?
- How is “our” guild called?
- Where did Rytlock got his powers and why does nobody care?
- Why can we suddenly, without a problem enter the dream?
- Why does Mordremoth copy clothes and armor?
- Since when is Kasmeer a teleport ninja sneaky expert? I know she theoreticly can, but I want that as well. I am a mesmer.
- Why did we bring Braham along?
- What about the bloodstones?
- What about the Pale Tree?
- What about all Sylvaris around the world?
- How come LA does know about what happened?
- Why was there no Scarlet clone?
- Why is there no epilog?
- What about Malyck and his tree?
- How did we get out of Rata Novus?
- How did Taimi survive in an infested place?

Actually, the problem with HoT is mostly that it doesn`t give us much to ask question. It just does. So any potential question is mostly brushed aside, or taken care of with some reason .
The main question would be more along the lines: Why are these big things not touched upon.

So, I finaly finished the story (after some Masterymayhap) and I sadly got to chime in as well:

Characters get no real development
PC
I don`t know if that was always the case, but him being the optimistic wisecracker who just says: No Problem, it`s all right to everything (well, aside from burning potential Mordrem) and even going Deus Ex Machina for the end, while being without a care in the world for many things he does ( oh, you were supposed to take care of the egg? My mistake, here take it. ).
It would be okay if that was on occasion, but he is like that all the time, meking me question his leadership qualities.
It`s nice to hear him talk again, but for the future, please gives us some checkboxes back where we can adjust his character a little bit. Please.

Braham
Lost his mom and wants to take down the EDs even more than before. The endfight mostly strenghten his resolve. Oh and for some reason he is bald now (is that a Norn murn thing I dont know about?)

Rox
Rox is there. She plays big sister to Braham once and then does, what she should have done before with Scarlet: Scouting. She is a ranger and I expect her some expertise there (its not liket he rest of Tyria did a good job there at that time and as you can see I am still annoyed by it)

Kasmeer and Majory
Apearently Kas and Maj have some trouble, however that was only said at the end of the story and only if you walk back up the spire.
You can even say that: they were awefully quite the whole time . You know I get Majs part, with Belindas death and so, however we could have easily fit that in HoT. Heck it would have been perfect for the finale, where you fight a regret of yours.
Oh and Deus Ex Kas is now a expert stealth ninja teleporter and her coments make me still ask why she is on a battlefield. I thought she was used to nasty stuff by now.

Taimi
Can suddenly run at mach speed and was pretty quick to sacrifice her best mechanical friend, who she had just updated to a level where he can better protect her. Something she has basicaly just learned in S2.
She is still our technological marvel, who in my opinion shouldnt be so OP. She looks at something and instantly understands it.
By the way. Her being selfish and staying in an infested unsecure laboratory with no way out (by the way, how did we get out? That was a plot point.), with not even any sign of regret was bad, really really bad. “Hey, you got your vague answer. Now get out and let me raid this place. Shoo go save the world or something…”
That is not funny writing. She is a selfish brat, who hasnt learned anything.
Our PC saying: oh she will be allright without any real defense at the moment. is just as stupid.

Canach
Other than his snark and that he wants to be free (soemthing we knew since he was in prison) we learn not much about him actually. He wants to redeem himself (known) and is our conenction to Mordy, for all our not Sylvari PCs.
He just pops up and says: Anise says I am in your care now, deal with it. and thats it.
The PC is against him for one sentence and then we just dont care about that part of the story. In fact we suddenly start to care about him, like he was part of the group all along.

all other NPCs
Could potential be interesting, but are mostly an exposition device. Would have loved for them to be more integrated, or have even some dialog aside from the story.

Story
So the story is split in open world and instanced areas. By that I mean you have to do open world content and story missions.
Okay, let me be frank. Each segemnt is bare bones and mostly tells you only the obvious things.
Characters get no real development in the stories (btw. It would have been cool to find pur crew in the open world as well and have them push some events. That way we could have shown their story, as the party was split up and gave them some story.) and the world gets extended to new areas, with only basic information about it. We dont really find any great mysteries or mor eimportantly the few mystieries we get are not explored enough to get a satisfying conclusion.
Even old mysteries are barely touched upon. Even worse, they are just brushed away (Balthazar? lets fight him (okay, that might fit, but really, thats it?). Druids? Pah, they existed, they pop up and then vanish again. I thought hey were supposed to cleanse the whole jungle.)

Overall my verdict is: Good ideas, not so good execution
The expansion is good in theory, however as soon as you look at all the wasted potential it is just disheartening. Old lore, while adressed in a bit, feels like a distant memory, and the new stuff, feels sadly out of place in corelation to it.

While glint is old lore, her plan is new lore. Just taking her name and creating basicly a complete new religions outside her allready established cult (you know, brotherhood of the dragon for example) is just weird. How many secret followings does she have?
How many plans did she have?

btw. How is our supposed Guild called? Braham said, that we could have killed Mordremoth just because it was our Guild? What Guild? When did we establish a Guild? Is it the same way I became their Boss? They just followed me around one day. Can I kick them? I mean all Braham does is smashing things. I allready have Rytlock for that and he is at least funny.

All these things are bound to happen in fictional universes and every story we hold dear and think that it is unique can be traced back somwehere somehow.

That things are similiar are often just coincidental, even though certain homages do exist.

There is a reason tropes exist

Shiren.9532:

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

He’s just a dropped plot thread.

Like Bahltek. The Teller of Tales. Vael. Druids. The Mysterious Stranger who contracted Zinn to make R.O.X. The Herald. Malyk. Lazarus. Drakkar. Wizard’s Tower/Isgarren. Caudecus. Ministry of Purity. Palawa Joko. Molten Alliance. Toxic Alliance. Mai Trin and the Aetherblades. Magdaer (how is Eir gonna give it to Logan now!?). Adelbern. The Nightmare. Dhuum. Menzies. Shiny. And many, many more I can’t think of atm.

None of these got concluded. Just faded away into nothingness.

I would add Evennia, Livia and the Scepter of Orr (well atleast we have her in Sea of Sorrows) .

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Maguuma bloodstone, afaik, is not explicitly explored in HoT and the Spirit Vale (first raid) seems to be located in an area the bloodstone could be found in GW2 (allowing for the geography changes they have been making). Livia was Shining Blade, enemies of the White Mantle. Silverwastes and Dry Top had a lot of hints suggesting bandits, or White Mantle, would make an appearance in the not so distant future. I’m really hoping Livia makes an appearance in the raid.

We know that we will encounter most of these things in the raids (which in my opinion is a bad place to put them, as it is supposed to be hardcore content and thus for the mostly lore enthusiasts, harder to reach and thus I doubt we get some deep lore here aside from: yeah, bloodstone and white mantle were a thing, you know )

Kassmeer (and I need to find the quote, I am sorry) did not gain extra abilities.
The writers have confirmed (for now) that the events in the tower of nightmare have nothing to do with her sudden stronger magic.

It has been described that all the events around Scarlet have just cleared a mental block and she was just a powerfull Mesmer all along.

All her abilities can be traced back to basic Mesmer and detective abilities. Like empathy, mind reading, etc.

She is a powerfull Mesmer who has awoken to he power.
The prick in the tower was a red hering.

Overall we have no further info there and till the devs don`t go into further detail here, we have nothing to go on about.

Its more likely that she will be our bridge to the nobles of the humans and to the conspiracy surounding Anise.

Yeah. Making valuable plot threads less valuable, because they are just part of the ED Crusade.

Though my point is this:
Even in the main story, they go out to look at possible ways to fight the ED, aka Rata Novus. It is only a hunch. A possibility.
They abandon their main goal (getting the Band… I mean DE back together) to go on a history trip.
So why couldn`t they stumble about other things. Malyck could have been helpfull, Mordremoths logistics could have been usefull, Druids could have been usefull.
Even the White Mantle, who is human centric and would do anything to protect humans would be an asset (and appearetnly they are in the jungle.. now they ar ein the Raid).
Or what about the Bloodstones? Big source of magical energy in enemies territory?

There was so much potential here and they reduced it to: Where are our friends? Oh look Exalted. Take care of the Egg. Oh a Asuran City which could have answers, lets explore. Lets enter the dragons mind. Dragon death.

In fact they could have used their split into Main Story and Open World lore to give insight into many things.

We know they tackle white mantle and bloodstones through raids, but these are set after HoT.

You just don`t take the straight line in a completly new area straight for the leaders head (which more or less is the story of HoT, as they just complete some little tasks before taking the enemy down).

The whole story is like all these locust players, who rush trhough a game and compalin that there is nothing to do here and move on.

(btw. I don`t like the idea that an LS should fix these things, as it suggests that the main story was incomplete and lacking. The LS should bridge to the next bigger storylines and allow us to explore outside the normal threats. Thats why it should be focused on the small DE2.0, while the main plot involves whole Tyria more)

Slowpokeking.8720:

Jaken.6801:

I don`t get the guards.
They are grown to serve mordremoth, which means their only influence is that of his will.
Even if we take the clones later into account and maybe the idea that they have remnants of the originals ideals and ideas, why would an ED create such a flawed concept.
If he can stretch his influence so far, wouldnt it make more sense to have them run with a more simplified programm instead of an own will and self ?

Okay, there might be logisstic problems here and they need to work somehow autonom, but if we can build golems who do certain things, I think an all powerfull ED can do that too.

Other than that. I welcome our new future dino riding allies, since we have an infant and guilable army to convert to our cause, since they are all nice on the inside and dont want to do horrible stuff…

I have more sympathy with the undead of zaithan. I mean they are forcebly revived and under his infulence. They had a life and experience prior.
however the guards are just created to serve Mordremoth. They are on the same level as destroyers who are living magma.

They were not supposed to have individual will, the Pale Tree reshaped them.

Yes and Mordremoth creates his own Guard as well, not only taking Sylvari and turn them if I am not mistaken.
Or did I missed something?

Sure, the annoying part is just that E was part of Season 1 and since then the writers have teased that we get mroe info on him/her.
What did we get in season 2? Nothing (aside from one or two letters)
What did we get in HoT? Nothing.

Even if they reveal for him to be Anise, the simple idea that they didn`t progressed our revelation towards him is just not enough and makes it feel dropped.

Yes, there are writing stuggles. I get that.
However it is not, like we in the forum pull these particular questions up again and again and make them visible.
If they write their part, there should some alarm bell go off and a big neon sign blinking saying: Don`t forget to expand on that plot point

Mordeus.1234:

This post from a dev hints to a problem with expecting elite specialization lore in HoT.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Spoiler-HoT-Unsorted-Discussions/first#post5648054

If the Dragonhunter lore was added after the whole “Braham taking Eir’s bow” plot point was already developed, then it literally is an afterthought and not part of the narrative development process. So the communication between the Narrative team and the Elite Specialization team wasn’t very integrated in that the Narrative team was largely ahead of the other in terms of developing lore. If we wanted Elite Specialization lore in HoT then both teams would have been more in sync, and the lore concepts of the Elite Specializations developed alongside or even prior to the HoT narrative.

Makes me wonder if then Marjory receiving Belinda’s Greatsword informed the choice of the Reaper wielding a Greatsword for the Elite Specialization team. So if Belinda was to say wield a different weapon like a longbow, then the Reaper would have used a longbow.

It’s a little confusing now because we expect Marjory to be a Reaper and Braham to be a Dragonhunter purely because of their new weapons. And therefore expect others like Taimi to be a Scrapper, Kasmeer to be a Chronomancer, etc… just for the sake of representing the new Elite Specializations. Makes me wonder if it’s too much trouble integrating the professions or elite specialization in with lore, and just accept them as gameplay only.

The only profession that I think needs some explanation is the Revenant purely because Rytlock can’t just disappear into the Mists without telling us what happened there. I wonder if Rytlock disappearing into the Mists inspired the creation of the Revenant or if the Revenant was already planned and that inspired his journey into the Mists. And the only Elite Specialization I personally need explaining is the druid, because what is the difference between a Druid and the druid specialization?

It’s all a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario, where it’s unclear which came first. The Elite Specialization concepts or the lore that just happen to vaguely hint to them. I believe if the Narrative team was as active in the creation of the Elite Specializations’ origin as the Elite Specialization team itself then we would have had the proper integrated lore.

Well, yes and no.

The core professions are based on the GW1 proffessions, who had background and we got some nifty explanations for them in GW2.
Like how certain believes changed and how they had to adapt them to fit all reaces.

The revenant is, as you say, a lore desaster, as it jus doesnt fit anywhere, aside from a game mechanic and being a deus ex machina.

Tying the new elite to our DE2.0 characters is indeed a stupid idea, but the same goes for them being available through a menu.

To make them relevant for anything in the world, there would have to be groups or well known masters, who trained in this elite part of the core professions, as they are just extensions of their basic elements.

That being said, many elite professions make sense, as their concepts are easy to grasp and are easily identify by name and mechanics to be part of a certain professions (nature ranger becoming druid, warrior going berserk or dogdy thief getting more dodgy as a daredevil).
Then we have the black sheep , which is the dragonhunter (and yes I am still annoyed about the silence and the recent revelation), who just doesnt make sense in general and our only tie in so far into the world is Braham who picks up Eirs bow.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

In the final instance, the PC tells Trahearne that the Pact is “all but gone.” The Pact. Not the fleet. The Pact.

Wait really?
So they want us to believe that they threw everything in for that attack?
- So we have no base of operation,
- no fleet construction sites,
- no B-Team,
- no remnants patroling other parts of the world and taking care of other EDs
- No Plan B or C?

Seriously? Did they want the Pact gone so badly?
We need an army to show how devestating the EDs are.
They are a great plot device.
They can show how we build up again and have people fight with us.

It`s not like we couldn´t have expanded on it like:
- Pact 1.0 has heavy losses against Zaithan
- Pact 2.0 get`s help from core Tyria races to fill the ranks, but even that isn`t enough.
- Pact 2.5 sends out expedition to find other allies in the world
- Pact 3.0 gets help from allies, they helped on their expedition (aka Cantha or Elona army)
- etc…

As it is now, all efforts were for nothing, we are reduced to a very small group and the World leaders will bunker up in their homes and refuse help (well,w e could talk to them again. I mean, I am THE COMANDER with the tounge of gold).

I really hope that this is not where they are going.

I liked my few valuable pact characters, who were awesome and have shown that there are others who get things done, aside from adventure party 356 aka destinys edge 2.0, which by all means has completly lost its merrit, as they dont work towards their strenghts (aside from Taimi, who just plays the usual nerdy Asura.)

Loboling.5293:

The reason it was forced is that Mordy forced you to charge in. His spread was vast but weak, he had to lure in our forces and destroy them, but once he did, he knew that was it. Since he is fused with the jungle movement is kind of hard. So his plan when he sensed that you have become corrupted by lay line energy is to trick you into thinking you’ve won and subtly confuse you in the future to compromise the security of Tyria. You yourself become the “villain” and you have to work tirelessly in season 4 to make up for your mistake. With Trahearn gone, you now control the largest army in Tyria. Once you’ve rebuilt, I’m sure something will go even worse than having the whole forward army get obliterated. The rata novus research will indicate that the dragon is probably alive, but the pc won’t believe it right away. (Due to Mordy subtly influencing your thoughts)

If I’m wrong, then this was a weird ending, but I still can’t believe that, it would make almost no sense. I mean just look at Scarlet, everyone when she was around thought she was some random sicko. Everyone was like: “Scarlet did it because she is CRAZY”. But they were building a much bigger plot. I’m sure we’ll find this is leading u to something big.

Well, she went coockoo for cocopops.
She had an external force, that caused it and the devil on her shoulder, but she went crazy.
Crazy in terms of doing something a normal person wouldnt do.

The one behind the curtain could have been mordremoth or someone else (still not 100% confirmed).

For the ending of Mordremoth however… meh, to be honest. With so many loose plotthreads I bet this one will bite the dust as well.
His dead is just one big X on the checklist.

Gnat.9405:

Well Mordremoth, or the Mouth of Mordremoth (which we presume to actually be the dragon), does look like a dragon.

Ah, saw a video now.
Yeah, however other description fit as well. Most I heard was snake or big vine.
It looks like a dragon. Like a Hydra I guess.

Since Zaithan is still dead, even though we had dozens of speculations that say otherwise and the devs saying he won`t come back (but then again, it is the devs and it is a bit hard to trust them if we talk about story related things), i would say:
Mordremoth is dead.

Zaithan was also supposed to be this all powerfull being. He wasnt supposed to be stupid at all and in the end was.
Even though he was depicted otherwise (infiltrating, etc.)

So right now, if we kill an Elder Dragon, then we kill an elder dragon.

I even say, good thing we kill it, so we dont have to bother with them anymore. However that is based on one problem we have in Guild Wars: great ideas, medicore implementations

I wish for a more complex and broad approach and the LS did it to a degree, but with HoT they threw everything out of the window and reduced it to the minimum steps required to kill the elder dragon.

If this was (again) just part one of him, then I dont care, as they could have easily put other storylines in HoT. Storylines they have teased again and again.
They only put in their new creations, from which two are somehow related to old GW1 characters. Which is nice, but sadly doesnt go beyond being references.

I don`t get the guards.
They are grown to serve mordremoth, which means their only influence is that of his will.
Even if we take the clones later into account and maybe the idea that they have remnants of the originals ideals and ideas, why would an ED create such a flawed concept.
If he can stretch his influence so far, wouldnt it make more sense to have them run with a more simplified programm instead of an own will and self ?

Okay, there might be logisstic problems here and they need to work somehow autonom, but if we can build golems who do certain things, I think an all powerfull ED can do that too.

Other than that. I welcome our new future dino riding allies, since we have an infant and guilable army to convert to our cause, since they are all nice on the inside and dont want to do horrible stuff…

I have more sympathy with the undead of zaithan. I mean they are forcebly revived and under his infulence. They had a life and experience prior.
however the guards are just created to serve Mordremoth. They are on the same level as destroyers who are living magma.

Shiren.9532:

Unless Braham settles down and starts the school of dragon hunting, tieing the origins to the new spec to him seems like a bad move. Guardians across Tyria are going to become dragonhunters but is it just going to be a coincidence that they learn the exact same techniques Braham does?

Dragonhunters are supposed to be guardians that specialise in hunting down and probably killing dragon minions. The most logical source of a widespread change in guardians mastering these techniques would be a response to the sylvari (dragon minions) turning on the Pact. Just like a handful of people in Lion’s Arch distrust sylvari after Scarlet, across Tyria the distrust towards sylvari as confirmed dragon minions would result in a rise of intolerance. Dragonhunters could have their origins as a villainous group hunting down sylvari, Son’s of Svanir, Inquest – any formerly accepted fringes of society related to dragon minions. Braham isn’t the only one who lost someone to Mordremoth or an elder dragon and making him a dragonhunter because his dead mother used a longbow is super cheesy, especially after they did the same thing with Marjory and her sister, or Logan and his brother.

Using Braham to tell that story makes no sense for Tyria as a whole.

Too be honest. Tying it down to guardians also makes no sense, as we have no reason to single this porfession out as something more qualified to hunt dragons, than others.
Dragons and their minions are just too varied and there could easily be one that resitst guardian magic and techs.

@Konig. Yeah. HoT sees a lot of potential and ideas but at the same time we see a lot of failed execution.

I got an idea. We have a PvP and general stream on twitch. how about a lore stream? I know speculating is half of the fun, but a bit more insight aside from the snippets we get ingame are certainly apreciated.

Randulf.7614:

Almost certainly never. It’s existence invites mystery, speculation and wonder – this is a game writers dream!

Nothing Anet could do with that place could ever live up to years of expectation and imagination on behalf of the community.

For these two reasons I will place my own cast iron guarantee we will never see inside that place ever. To be honest I think that is the right call as well – some things are best left…….mysterious…

They could do a lot with it.
I mean it is nothing more than a wizards haven, so as long as it is big and magical anything goes.

The thing you are getting it, i believe, is doing it right.

So it has to address everything we know right now (that there are supposed to be several towers, the history behind it and it needs a purpose)

Even if it is “just” the home of our pouwerful wizards who said: “screw this world, I am doing my own thing.”
like he is just a watcher and chronicles the world or something.
It is still something where we could find something usefull.

Even if this is his space, where he is almighty and has no reason to deal with us , we could at least go with the trope that we are stubborn enough to get his attention or are amusing enough for him to help us a little bit.

On the other hand, it is another mystery for mysteries sake. It`s not like we don`t have several of them around at the moment…

Urosh Uchiha.9732:

They’ll probably use the whole “Now that Mordy is dead we can finally explore the jungle in peace and see what we can find.”

That way they will add all sorts of things that we are talking about on the forums that are completely missing in this expansion and it was its perfect place to be in HoT

Which would be interesting, however in the end we would ask: “why couldn`t it have been in there from the beginning?”

Whoever it is we get, expect the possibility of showing bubbles/steve in any form and then them not doing it.

Mordeus.1234:

There really should be a thread listing all the unanswered questions and forgotten plot points, just so we can keep track of it and maybe see the scale of what needs to be addressed. You could probably do a pretty sizeable list of just HoT/Maguuma-centric stuff.

I’m tempted to do it but I don’t think I have the best grasp of the problem.

I started one after LS1 and right after HoT:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Spoiler-Open-Questions-post-HoT-edition

However I still think we need a more condensed space. Something that is easier to edit and not as restrictive as the forums (A post is not enough for all the loose ends and reserving several is a guessing game.)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

He’s just a dropped plot thread.

Like Bahltek. The Teller of Tales. Vael. Druids. The Mysterious Stranger who contracted Zinn to make R.O.X. The Herald. Malyk. Lazarus. Drakkar. Wizard’s Tower/Isgarren. Caudecus. Ministry of Purity. Palawa Joko. Molten Alliance. Toxic Alliance. Mai Trin and the Aetherblades. Magdaer (how is Eir gonna give it to Logan now!?). Adelbern. The Nightmare. Dhuum. Menzies. Shiny. And many, many more I can’t think of atm.

None of these got concluded. Just faded away into nothingness.

We definetly need a list of all these things.
I am gettin tired of the teasing, not delivering and adding more stuff instead of resolving things.
I mean, I am doing this lore thing not as long as many others and I am getting more and more frustrated than entertained right now.

I read nothing of story or the LS (still not fond of having to wait for the latter)
The other things are big and certainly exciting, but HoT left a sour taste and I wish there would be a bit more on that matter.

Which begs one question though.
Why are they called Dragons if they dont have to look like dragons.

I know it could just be a description of old (like in doctor who, the word doctor is refered as healer and wise man but also warrior and death), but I always though there was some kind of physical representation embeded in the ED energy.

Everyone who takes the power, transforms or manifests it in a dragons shape.

I mean, every other ED was dragonlike.

Racoon.4128:

Friends, I’d like to mention how much I love the new maps and the layout and the jungle’ishness of the whole design, I felt so lost and broken (but so excited), seeing my carefully built Pact been ripped of the sky, scattered in this new hostile wilderness.

I would also like to mention how disappointed I am regarding the HoT-Story. Like QQ-to-tears-disappointment, please let me express my thoughts:

I wish, we could have seen more character development – especially after Eir's passing away. Braham could have picked up her bow and become a dragon hunter himself, avenging his mother's death and at the same time introducing the class, giving it a proper background and the epicness it deserves (like Revenant-Rytlock). And I was so hoping for Eir becoming a druid, feeding the story of the new class!
Man, I miss her already, she really was an archetype of the strong, wise woman.

Then Caithe: She turned into this hunted woman who – as we later understand – is determined to make her Wyld Hunt succeed. Mordremoth could have broken her spirit during her encounter with Faolain, resulting in a side quest where the Hero and their small group try to free her from the Elder Dragon’s grip (while further exploring the jungle). As a result, she evolves with the Daredevil-specialization!

And what about Marjory receiving the great sword of her sister Melinda (ding, ding, elite specialization of Necromancer?!) but we never hear another word of her new powers again?

Last but not least Traherne, the ever-so-bright-and-heroic Firstborn. I loved him so much for always being so noble, oh shiny knight in salad armor…
Mordremoth catching him broke my heart and I really, really wanted to rescue him. Why not continue the story with a turned Traherne, a twisted and evil Firstborn who was not able to resist the grip (verifying that other sylvari might bend to the Dragon’s call, too, making the threat even bigger, raising suspicion against Canach – whose character I enjoy immensely), a Firstborn who becomes the Elder Dragon’s Marshall? We could have had another side step with a massive battle, but Mordremoth saves him from our attacks and we find him with his broken sword and he helps us, because reasons, maybe the Pale Tree whispered to him, calling him son? Or maybe he does not help us, we gain access to the Dream by killing him)?

All of those strong story steps lay ground for fantastic character developments. Talking about Eir's death, Melinda's death, Caithe’s Wyld Hunt, new items which where gven to the protagonists…

Ah, I am suffering from ‘what could have been’. It’s exactly like when you watch a movie and have imagined it to be different… like Jem and the Holograms or The Hobbit 3. What do you guys miss in the Story? What did you enjoyed the most in the Story of HoT?

Last thought before bed: Please let us at least fix Caladbolg and return it to the Pale Tree. And help Taimi build an awesome tiger-shaped golem. And maybe get us saurian mounts, pretty please, yes?
Still some things I can look forward to.

I think we should stop combining the Elite and DE2.0… it just limits possible cool concepts.
Also, Braham taking up a bow and calling himself dragonhunter is not enough to name an entire profession after it.
I mean, even the devs own explanation is definetly not enough, as the name itself just too broad to be confined to one profession.
It is style over substance and the excuse of high concept is not enough to warrant dozens of questions which they are unwilling (or not enough time, even though they spend a lot on explaining mechanics etc… and keeping up to date with every change… ugh) to address.

On the other hand Majory becoming a reaper could be a great bridge to her canthan heritage.

However i rather have some masters or real groups in the world using these advanced profession abilities instead of the easy and boring way we have at the moment.

I agree with the fact that we could have way more character developement and in fact much more fluff, instead of setpiece after setpiece, with very little bite.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

As I said in another thread with this very topic (seriously guys, three threads on the same topic now?):

Konig Des Todes.2086:

• Braham wants to go after Jormag.
• Rytlock wants to go after Kralkatorrik.
• Rata Novus was heavily studying Primordus, so we may get his weakness faster.
• Jormag has been the second most active dragon since the Personal Story.

But I don’t think any of them will be next.

In the final cinematic, we see the magic within Mordremoth explode and go into four directions. They coincidentally seem to match the cardinal directions – north, south, east, west.

Now, the one that went north went into the egg. So the egg got 1/4th of Mordremoth’s magic. Where did the other three go?

Well, the one which went west would have gone directly to Rata Sum – to the GW1 vets, you may remember Arachni’s Haunt dungeon; well in the quest dialogue the asura mention that there’s a high concentration of ambient energy there – yup, Arachni’s Haunt and thus the docks of Rata Sum (what the asura built over the spider cave system) is a ley line hub. Further east of that is the Grove, which wouldn’t be surprising to be on a ley line hub too given the tree is a dragon minion thus would need to consume magic as a food source.

Westward is pure water after the coastline which isn’t far off the map. So it goes into the Unending Ocean and if it keeps going straight-ish then it’d eventually reach Sunrise Crest.

Southward leads to the Ring of Fire – and Abaddon’s Mouth. But beyond that, if the ley line doesn’t turn, it’d lead…. directly to where the Deep Sea Dragon is likely to be.

This might explain why HoT promotions had three dragon heads rising out of tidal waves assaulting Lion’s Arch

Scleritethin/Selbbub/Senor Bubbles/Steve is next Elder Dragon.

Oh great, the Grove. i knew HoT was missing something.
I hope the fact that the whole Sylvari civil war mess was cut out, isn`t because we now have a crazy Pale Tree to take care off.

Though hunting the other parts of the dragon energy could be fun.
Even though it would still undermine Mordremoth as a villian (still better than omnomnom Zaithan, who didn`t had much character), as he would just be the dragon that fell, to fuel our own.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Just throwing this out there now that Mordy is vanquished, but who do we assume is next? I know Primordy was mentioned, and the map seems to be wrapping us back around towards Rata Sum, do these two factors lead us to be it will be the destroyer dragon?

To be honest, I dont care about the EDs at the moment.
I hope they finaly tackle and finish some of the older plotthreads.

If they finaly go back to the EDs, i really hope they make it more memorable, as Mordremoth so far was mostly just there for me.

Sird.4536:

As a Guardian they said Dragon Hunter was a high concept name. Braham picking up Eirs longbow doesn’t seem high concept if indeed that is the idea behind that.

They said that this event was jsut the inspiration for the DH. The main idea however is the witchhunter.
Both ideas are bad, though, or rather not well implemented.

Braham calling himself a dragonhunter would be okay, but is not enough to create a whole class around it, till he proves himself to be actually usefull against them.

A group of guardians calling themselves dragonhunters is also questionable, as we have no reason to constrict such a name to only the guardian.

Their argument that they hunt everything dragon is also very unfitting, as they would be on the front of the Sylvari extermination crusade for example.
Also, there are other groups who have the same goal.

However the downside of this profession has been debated enough and from the reaction and how the topic is handled by the devs show how low this and other topics is on their agenda.

They got a cool name and some vague “lore” behind it. That should be enough.

They got some fine people here and some very big and interesting lore. Still I have the feeling they are too overhelmed with it and are not sure how to tackle it.
They try to build upon the old, but keep forgetting that the base isnt finished.
I hope the whole ordeal doesnt crumble.

With all the critizism and the LS3 seemingly the last hope for everyone who wanted anything answered (I dont beleive that the raids will offer a lot more info, as these are usually centred around creating a great encounter. They will be neat little sidestorys, though), I would love it if a writer would take some time and assure us, there is a lot more in the pipeline.

It would be sad to see the big mantra of HoT, carried over into every part of the game.
By that I mean, that HoT is nothing more than the base for everything in the future.

Which is something I dont really agree upon in the story and lore department, which certainly had a enough work done already.

PS. In my opinion shifting lots of answers maybe on LS3 and having such a rushed experience of the story (which should have been something cool and amazing, btw.) is not the right approach.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The only thing I feel ArenaNet met expectations on that were made so high from all the hyping was the Exalted. In terms of story/lore, that is.

Of course, I never wanted the Exalted to be mursaat so I’m sure many will disagree there.

Rata Novus has also been great, but it was not hyped up at all. A full mystery to discover and I thank ArenaNet for that. Should consider that more often.

To be honest. I thought they were a waste. An unneccessary introdurction to an convoluted “master plan”.

Yay, we have an golden army, made of the stuff the dragons want all for Glints great revenge plot.

Don`t know, but I see them becomign a thread in the future. Either as glints eggs minions or as its foodsource.

The idea is interesting. Dont expect many people to jump on it so easily, as the fact that the lore is rather superficial and as you said: feels rushed.

I dont know if that is the right idea, but something at least a step in the right direction.

Well, dont bet on that, since we have this little tidbit of information:

MatthewMedina.5419:

This was definitely not motivated by the decision to have an appropriate backstory for the guardian elite specialization. In fact to my recollection, I think Jon Peters took this plot point which we knew early on as inspiration and ran with it so if anything story helped give rise to the Dragon Hunter and not the other way around.

Which means, we got just a ncie little idea and thats it. Nothing that would tie the Dragonhunter to the guardian in any way.
The fact that no one answered in the big thread in the HoT part of this forum, after the explanation of their high concept defence is a clear sign. They dont want to talk in any way about that matter.

The same can be said about the Revenant who got a similiar treadment. We got some roleplay fun in a blogpost, however right now the stance on anything more related to him (as shown in HoT) is: “Its magic, dont ask questions.”

I have seen dozens of other games pull this off better. Even if the lore was just text on websites or ingame description.

It is really sad to see this here, as I know there are some brilliant minds behind the lore here.
I really wish to know what went wrong? Was it time? Ressources? Some other factor?

I can understand (to a degree, since I love these quests in other games) not implementing a real quest to unlock classes, as people would be annoyed (as they were allready with the 400HP, though that was okay), that they cant play their precious elite classes from the second they boot up the expansion.

However, omiting everything and tucking it neatly behind some arbitary collections, which in many cases even have the same silly requirements is just lazy in my opinion.
They didnt have to be on legendary level, but at least give us some insight into them.

I don`t mind us going out and search for DE, as they are proven to be valuable assets, however the lack of coordiantaion with the rest of the war effort inside the story, feels weird.
I know they wanted to tell the story with the map battles and effort there, but in the end, we just have several disjointed stories, that never actually feel like they influence each other.

Which they should. Not in a way that one is hold back, but in the way that they reference each other.

The PS could have pushed you into the area, where you are organize the whole war effort and then have you back on your quest.

Imperios.2543:

I wonder. [spoiler] Why killing Fattie in Mordremoth’s dream result in his physical body dying ans magic dispersing from his body? Shouldn’t he have simply become a braindead vegetable (pardon the pun) wih all the magic still in his unconscious body, or does that mean that magic in Tyria is somehow mental and stored by the mind itself?[/spoiler]

Well, there is a theory that dragon energy is at least always looking for a new host.
We dont know the true nature of it, though.
As if it has to be claimed, or if it just lashes onto the next suitable being.

That being said, havign this energy seems to come with its own laws, like having hunger for magic.