Guild Wars 2

Ostricheggs.3742:

Penguin.5197:

Ostricheggs.3742:

EVERYONE CHILL THE kitten OUT!

Don’t start with the hyperbole again, please.

We have no idea outside, of what they’ve already said they’ll change, what’s going to happen.

They’re just my initial impressions but so far nothing really good from what they have said.

The healing turret change is going to open up a LOT of builds for engis in tourneys. The lack of condi cleanses forces us 20 up alchemy, 15 up tools (with R) or 15 up inventions (with healing turret).

It’s a good change.

I don’t mean to sound hostile, I just know that people naturally react like idorts when faced with nerfs.

Do you think the overcharge will really make a difference? They mentioned it changing to 20 sec, but I don’t know how effective that’ll be.

Not being sarcastic. Genuinely curious.

Not yet. They’re talking about eles. Eles are getting a few nerfs though.

It’s here again. I really hope they don’t bash/nerf engineers or I might have to leave these forums for a few weeks.

EDIT: Going on now.

http://sv.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru

Interesting things so far:

-Change how retaliation works in WvW and PvP. Didn’t catch it all, someone can reply to help me here.
-Thief steal boons with sword/dagger (devs mentioned it countering HgH and eles)
-Ranger pets get all around buffs, and pet skills get improved activation time. Lets hope our turrets get similar treatment.

Ele nerfs:
-Mistform: No utility skills while mistform
-Ride the lightning: RtL 40 sec cooldown if the attack misses, 20 normal.
-Reduced procs on signet of water?
-Internal cooldowns on regen?

Engineer:
To help diversify engineer builds, they have been looking at the hgh builds because of the intense condition pressure.
They are planning interesting changes to healing turret, incendiary powder and elixir S.

Healing turret
-initial heal reduced quite a bit
-overcharge and passive heals improved
-overcharge recharge reduced to maybe 20 sec
-overcharge causes water field
-overcharge reduces conditions (their words, not mine)

Concern discussed: People might start focusing down turrets. Questions about whether it is strong enough to take the damage. They’ll see about whether they need to change hit points

-Incendiary powder: Talk about 100% uptime burning. In an effort to diversify builds the burns will proc 4 sec burns every 10 sec. 100% on crit.

-Elixir S cannot use utilities when active. No news on whether we can switch kits.

Q: Is there any news about buffing bombs?
A: grenades are too powerful. They might need to be brought down. Might buff bombs in PvP but not in PvE. Bombs are powerful in PvE.

Q:Havent grenades been nerfed in the past? Isn’t it too much?
A: We want to bring things up instead of down.

Q:What about new builds? Bombs and grenades dominate.
A:Want to create turret builds, but that is not possible now. Gadgets… just not that great…

Guardian:
-Talk about playing with projectile blockers, due to being too strong against all ranged classes like engineers.

quick and sloppy. Will be rewritten. Some of the skill names are wrong, if so blame the devs, I just typed.

I’m just typing some things from what I hear. If I miss or get anything wrong, please correct me.

Clarifications: Grenades will not be nerfed. They were mentioned off hand. No changes are planned for grenade kit so far.

AsmallChicken.9634:

JohnDied.3476:

Zenguy.6421:

waka.9826:

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

If it does get nerfed there’d be no one else to blame but the engineer community. I’ve been asking guildies throughout this month (in a guild of about ~150) and no one thinks engineers are overpowered. Most (nearly all) haven’t even heard of HgH. There’s actually only three engineers in our guild (myself included) and we all just run whatever we feel like playing around with. No cookie cutter builds.

Nah, other professions are raising a huge storm over this build too. Just look over at the SPVP forums where you’ll get glimpses of where balance is heading.

This game shouldn’t be balanced solely on PvP. Sadly it will, just because they haven’t bothered to separate it by now (other than for confusion).

Also, I’ve been to those forums. Half the people on those threads are still engineers (I look at and remember names from here), and the other half seem like they can’t be bothered to learn a class that up until now no one saw as a threat. When it comes to other classes chipping in, there’s just as many giving advice on how to beat engis as there are whining about them.

Zenguy.6421:

waka.9826:

I talked to Hammon in game who is a dev and he said HGH is getting nerfed. Gadgets are not being worked on at the moment and basically nothing else lol.

If it does get nerfed there’d be no one else to blame but the engineer community. I’ve been asking guildies throughout this month (in a guild of about ~150) and no one thinks engineers are overpowered. Most (nearly all) haven’t even heard of HgH. There’s actually only three engineers in our guild (myself included) and we all just run whatever we feel like playing around with. No cookie cutter builds.

Static discharge hasn’t been nerfed. It probably won’t ever be seeing as how it hasn’t been yet. It’s funny because someone necro’d a five month old thread about static discharge and engies (back then) were going on about how it would be nerfed right away. This was before found out that it has its own drawbacks.

Amadeus.5687:

Edit: Also we still have a insane high amount of negativity on our Engineer forums, so you will need to get used to that

Self fulfilling prophecies mate

I remember november. Really good month, until the fated grenade-nerf/elixir-gun fix came rolling out.

So far, changes to the engineer include

-Moderate turret buffs: They were good but not as much as most asked for, although they are useable now in normal builds, just not so great on their own.

-HgH now gives two stacks of might per elixir drunk (not thrown): Seemed pretty minor, changed the engi meta.

-Moderate flamethrower buffs: Flamethrower is alright now. Look up Naks builds.

-Minor bug fixes: Pretty much across the board. Although we still have very terrible bugs like the asura elixir s camera bug

About the engineer meta. Look up might stacking HgH builds or Maskaganda video. Coupled with might or boon duration runes engineers can become the new d/d eles.

EDIT: oh oh, also. Someone found out how to burst people down (like a thief) with the engineer and created the infamous 100-nades build. It upset everyone so much that it eventually got removed from the game. It was very controversial, and quite frankly looked like an exploit (although it may have not been). It still got old kit refinement removed.

I thought the flamethrower bit would be too much. Glad at least one flame-trooper didn’t take offense. Hope Phinn takes the bait though

Also, what happened to this place? Why has all our cynical humor evaporated.

We have a “support heal” its called healing turret. I would rather keep the med kit as it now is. Very strong personal heal. If you couple it with 25 points in inventions, you find that you’ll never run out of heals, just out of time for healing

I used to find it very clunky and thought, “this is meant for use out of combat.” Then I started running dungeons and learning how to use it. It eventually became my favorite heal.

King Stinkeye.3560:

I don’t think any rational Engineer would claim that 100 nades was playing the class as intended and shouldn’t have been nerfed. The difference is… show me a rational Thief who thinks the damage they’re able to deliver with little to no skill deserves to be nerfed as well.

Sums up my thoughts entirely. I still won’t touch SPvP in this game because of the terrible beginners curve of “learning how to survive the amateur thief”

I’ve been following this issue for a while now and it seems like it’s just the engineer community that has perpetuated this idea, probably out of boredom.

It’s sad, but there was one QQ thread and it just got swarmed with engineers. Most seemed like familiar posters from this forum with the exception of a few from other classes. Half of the people from other classes said they have no problem dealing with engineer HgH, the other half (of which there weren’t many) said we need to get nerfed before we become as useful as an ele. Half of the engineers on the thread wanted HgH nerfed and the other half were dead set on no more nerfs.

I’ve tried to figure out why this community is so intent on nerf mongering before every patch. Is it because HgH is perhaps boring for them? Is that why they want to see it nerfed? Or does the community want fuel for the “nerf-resentment” they have for the devs. It’s probably the latter, as people find conflict engaging and amusing, they want more nerfs as an oportunity to bash the devs again.

As to why top players insist on HgH getting nerfed, I think it has to do with the engineer being a very niche and high difficulty class. If I had to make a guess it would be that top engies view HgH as “too good” because being an engineer has never before been FotM, nor has it ever been easy. Having a well rounded build with few weaknesses (which HgH has) may seem too good for an engineer because there have been very few builds like that before, and they’ve all been nerfed.

If you ask a mesmer/elementalist/thief if they think their class (or build) is overpowered, they’ll happily inform you about the drawbacks to those builds, or the skill required to pull them off. Apparently, if you ask a top HgH engineer, they’ll probably tell you that yes, the build is overpowered because it can’t be easily countered like every other engi build. This speaks of a weak class, not an overpowered build.

Ask good mesmers if they think HgH is overpowered, I doubt they’ve even bothered looking it up.

They’ll probably make pry-bar 3 sec again before they nerf HGH. 10 sec confusion would be higher on the engineer nerf list than our elixirs.

Halcyon.7352:

JohnDied.3476:

Yeah… I don’t remember anyone calling the kit refinement super elixir OP since the lost shores patch. The only thing we complained about was how much better the double SEs were when they were bugged.

Now it seems like a lot people agree that it was too good. Which is kind of funny considering I replaced it with speedy kits (great with invigorating speed) as soon as it was fixed.

All in all, I think that the kit refinement SE was holding things back. They couldn’t keep buffing SE because of kit refinement, and the way it before last patch was not so great without KR. Its just one more kit that doesn’t need to depend on traits to be decent.

Plenty of people whined that KR was op, primarily because of 100nades. That aside, I don’t recall anyone ever calling engineers overpowered for anything.

It’s an interesting theory that they might have felt the need to ‘hold back’ on SE, but I don’t think it holds up. They buffed it just before removing the double pop from KR.

Personally, I don’t think they’ll ever do anything much further to SE, as engineer already has plenty of other party support, other than direct healing. (This is their reasoning I believe, not mine.)

Ahem…

In any case, that “double pop” was only ever good for babysitting in dungeons and removing conditions. A good single burst heal is all you need every once in a while, if someone were willing to stay in a spot for 10 seconds to enjoy 100% uptime SE then I’d rather not party with them because they’d need near constant rezzing.

Also, while I personally don’t agree with the new KR, I have to say that it looks better than the old one. Its a shame that the global cooldown completely ruined it.

Yeah… I don’t remember anyone calling the kit refinement super elixir OP since the lost shores patch. The only thing we complained about was how much better the double SEs were when they were bugged.

Now it seems like a lot people agree that it was too good. Which is kind of funny considering I replaced it with speedy kits (great with invigorating speed) as soon as it was fixed.

All in all, I think that the kit refinement SE was holding things back. They couldn’t keep buffing SE because of kit refinement, and the way it before last patch was not so great without KR. Its just one more kit that doesn’t need to depend on traits to be decent.

@Mask

I don’t want to say that it was the nerfs, because then it might start a flame war, but it was the nerfs

Even when our engineer is just as strong as a bunker ele (maybe stronger in WvW) the community has already been so embittered by the nerfs that it can’t see how strong the engi is. It isn’t a L2P .issue anymore, it’s an issue with our builds.

So it seems, that all we can see is what’s been taken away, not what we’ve been given.

Penguin.5197:

It slows down a lot when it isn’t patch week, there probably isn’t anything left to discuss that hasn’t been talked about already

Pretty much sums it up. The occasional WvW video from maskaganda, or builds from Amadeus liven up the place. Other than that its just the usual rotation of people asking for engineer leveling/dungeon/WvW advice and the answers boiling down to this:

-Leveling
“Go grenades!”, “try out different things”, “Here’s my FT/EG build, its great!” and my favorite, “Here’s my niche build, it worked great for me”
-Open World PvE
“It’s so easy, do whatever” or “try out different things” and “Here’s my FT/EG build, its great”
-Dungeons
Get ready for the “Here’s my FT/EG build!” followed by “Go grenades!” and a bunch of really niche builds. What should be said here is just this, learn to dodge+your build doesn’t matter if you learned to dodge.

The most boring build treads boil down to grenades, flamethrower and might stacking builds. The flamethrower threads are especially boring because they always turn into massive arguments that go the same exact way every time. People don’t like FT because it’s “weak” and others repeating over and over again “flamethrower works great for me!”.

The only really varied discussion occurs for WvW and PvP builds and gameplay. It’s a real shame for people who can’t run WvW and don’t like PvP

EDIT: I didn’t mean to insult people, its just a summary by a lurker.

What I should have added is that suggestion threads have pretty much died because people view them so negatively now. I can’t say why exactly, but if I were to guess it’s because unless it has to do with FT/EG no one cares and the thread gets ignored. Bomb builds get ignored, turret builds get humored. If it is about FT people get really defensive about the kit and the thread get’s killed on the first page by arguments.

Interesting build threads are kind of skimmed by now due to Grenades/P/P HGH being flat out stronger than anything else. We’re becoming the new bunker ele.

Sometimes… if you pay attention to names, it feels like everyone here is arguing about the same thing over and over again…

Only with new people… who are asking questions and arguing points that we asked and argued months ago.

It’s funny when I come to understand how the old trolls used to get high and mighty about us repeating things.

Honestly, the reason the turret buffs have taken so long to come out is because the devs are terrified of engineers just leveling AFK. I’ve played with turrets since I started my engineer and while underwhelming, I’ve found that full turret builds don’t make for well rounded or engaging gameplay.

Looking at Mesmer clones we can tell what the best summon or “pet” is in the game. They do good damage and are short duration. They only attack one target, which the player has to select like any other ability, and de-spawn after the target dies so there’s no chance of AFK farming. Turrets should not be just like mesmer clones, but they should hit a lot harder than they do and a single turret should provide enough to a player to outweigh the utility of a kit.

I agree that our turret cool-downs should start ticking when we place them. I also agree that turret cooldowns should be taken down as well. What I suggest however is to reduce the uptime of turrets even more, to ~30sec, but have them do a lot more damage.

My suggestion goes like this:
.-Have turrets have a cooldown that starts ticking down from the moment they are placed (lets say 40 sec).
.-If you let them go for 30 sec they auto-blow and you have a 10 sec cooldown before you can bring one up.
.-Every 10 sec they are up you are allowed to upgrade their damage (to double their damage).

Having a shorter uptime before blowout will discourage afk farmers even more, while ensuring that players who use turrets strategically will have use for them. The 10 sec cooldown between turrets ensures that the player needs to do more than just spam turrets over an area and hope that they do all the work (again discouraging farmers). And the upgrades to turret damage ensures that the turreteers that have to put up the the former suggestions get a fair trade off.

I find that something like this won’t just be a hassle, but instead will be something more engaging than the toss, fight around, hope they don’t get aoe’d or their AI works, turrets we have now.

I’ve been toying around with support/healing builds on the engineer since I first started playing. My first set of exotics were clerics

When I first reached lvl 80 I experimented with builds that used grenades for vuln stacking, as well as elixir gun and healing bombs for party heals. Back then the engineer scaled very well with straight power+healing and those builds fairly well. This was during the lost shores month. Needless to say the engineer is another beast now that the SE bug was fixed, grenades were nerfed (buffed condi-nades), and KR SE removed.

I personally advise against going healing power on an engineer, at least not full healing power. Before this patch I ran with a mix of vit/tough, power/condi, and healing gear. Carrion gear for vit/power/condition damage and cleric trinkets for tough/power/healing. Since pistols and most kits scale off of both power and conditions my damage wasn’t half bad, and afforded some compassion for healing bombs (these scale off of all three).

If you’re wondering whether you’ll do well with full apothecary gear, then I’d wager you really won’t. The engineer scales best with a mix of stats, and not very well if you go very far on a specific one (least of all healing).

The current engineer meta revolves around going mixed condition/direct damage. So, whereas a few months ago you were best off with explosives, rifle and cleric gear, now you scale much better with condi HGH builds.

I go for rabid gear and cleric trinkets now. I wouldn’t want to go full Apothecary gear because you’d definitely kitten your already low damage (Thanks versatility tax ). I’ve found that for PvE bombs it’s a good mix for survival (vit+toughness), damage (power+Condi) and healing.

Recently though I’ve wondered if it’s worth it when I compare my build to HGH builds. The thing is, healing bombs don’t scale too well with healing power (only ever getting them up to 340 with healing gear) and burst is key in this game. In open world PvE you’ll never die with my set up (especially if you cart around med-kit), but in dungeons you lack damage and burst heals.

I’ve always been of the opinion that healing bombs are still a little lackluster (even though I’ve used them for months on end). I’ve come up with stuff like this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/nerf-healing-on-bomb-1/first#post1711329

So if I’m honest, I’m probably going to drop healing bombs within the next month. They’ve formed my favorite builds since before the grenade nerf, but are too weak to justify. You’re better off just avoiding damage all together than trying to heal it, so I’d suggest trying out a HGH condi-nades build and getting really good a dodging.

And put it on the rest of the kit.

Got your attention?

I’m just putting this idea to the forums to see whether its any good or not. Try not to bash, and instead give it some thought and feedback.

How about the devs take away that spammable heal (~340 max with all healing gear) on bomb #1 with the healing bombs trait and replace it with stronger heals (or heals that scale better with healing power) on #2, and #3.

It would go something like this. So that this trait doesn’t become OP, you take away heal on bomb #1 and do the following:

Bombs #2:
-No change to damage or fire field.
-No change to cooldown.
-Base heal 400
-Scales with healing power by .25

Bomb #3
-No change to damage or confusion.
-No change to cooldown.
-This skill now places a water field for 3 seconds
-4 stacks of regen (on ground, like healing spring or healing rain).

So the old formula:

bomb #1 spammable (with delay) ~340 heal per 1.5 seconds (in 20 seconds ~4.5k heal)

New heal formulas:

bomb #2- 400(.25) every 10 seconds. With 1000 in healing = 650 heal every 10 sec, 1.3k available in 20 seconds.

bomb #3- 4 stacks of regen (4*130 health/sec) for 3 seconds = 1560 heal available in 20 seconds.

Total heal every 20 sec for new skills:
Bomb #2 + bomb #3 = (1.3k) + (1.6k) = around 2.9k

Old heals in 20 seconds:
~4.5k

So, why am I asking to nerf our healing bombs?

Because healing bombs are not a good build outside of PvE, and even there they’re not the greatest. To make the healing decent you have to couple them with Elixir gun and a lot of regen. On top of that, most traits that go well with healing bombs are located in the alchemy traitline, not the inventions line.

So Why, oh god, are you asking the devs to nerf those heals?

In order to get that ~4.5k heal in 20 seconds you have to spam healing bombs for 20 seconds. This goes against the engineer playstyle of not depending on auto attacks. The devs have to make a spammable heal weak in the case of us actually spending all of our time spamming it.

It fits in better with the engineer playstyle to have two decent heals on bomb kit (on a 30 point line) rather than one really terrible heal be spammable. And it does a better job at healing since they’re burst heals.

Every 20 seconds you can go back into bomb kit (when the cooldowns are off) and go into melee range without having to spam #1 over and over again. You can focus on using our cooldown abilities and still get decent heals (2.2K burst).

Isn’t this stepping on the issues people are having with Eles? Wouldn’t this make a potentially tanky class worse?

Staff ele gets water blast+geyser+healing rain gan heal for 3.6k with 1000 healing power. The new bombs wont approach this potential burst heal (staying at 2.2k burst with 1000 healing power).

So the new set up for healing bombs isn’t OP because you still can’t burst heal as much as a healer ele, but you can depend on those burst heals to keep you alive while you dart in and out of combat for your bombs.

At Nakoda. In our previous arguments I had always respected what you had to say about the flamethrower because you were willing to share your build with us and talk through the good points it had with respect to other builds.

About this thread, sorry mate but since there’s always an influx of new engineers a lot of issues that have been previously fleshed out and discussed need to be constantly repeated. It’s not an issue with people going back to argue the same thing, it’s an issue with newer people arguing things that have already been discussed. No point in burning ourselves out on all these threads (Why I’ve lessened my posting).

At this thread. The flamethrower is a peculiar weapon. If you want to check out a detailed discussion on it then go to this thread (particularly at the end):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Flamethrower-is-still-not-worth-the-slot/first

Don’t be too quick to judge one weapon set because it doesn’t fit in with your playstyle. Some of these weapons are bread and butter for other engineers. I can admit this even if I don’t prefer the flamethrower myself.

As a final note, try not to rage at Nakoda, this issue is brought up every patch and he has been providing sensible comments for months now. I’ll just wait for phineas to get over here (with his inexhaustible debate skills) and shed some light on the issue.

Predictions

Nerfs:
-Kit refinement invisible cooldown is here to stay. It’ll be a few months before they catch this “bug.”
-Kit refinement bug will affect grenade kit, but toolkit will be overlooked.
-Kit refinement grenade barrage gets replaced with insta-cast bomb #1.

Buffs:
-Thumper turret now cripples (All other turrets are overlooked)
-Toolkit gets buffed again
-Remove 30% RNG from throw elixir U (increases cooldown)
-Maybe remove stealth from throw elixir S and replace it with aegis or protection (increases cooldown)
-Add some elaborate way to buff flamethrower by a little (more might stacking at the cost of having less mobility?)
-Change the elixir gun in some way that won’t be meaningful
-They fix scope (not really)

Other:
-All gadgets and other kits get overlooked (rocket boots? they’re perfect!)
-All other bugs get ignored (looking at turret AI)
-Boon hate will only be for thiefs, mesmers and warriors, and maybe gear eventually.

Punkins.2087:

Button mashing is not fun. Micro management is not fun. You confuse me.

So… What I meant is this:
Micro which involves button mashing is not fun.

Elementalists and mesmers have good micro which involve a lot of good timing, cooldowns, things that proc off of actions that aren’t mindless attacking (like on dodge, or atunement swapping).

Engineers have some bad micro which involves invisible cooldowns and spamming keys to keep buffs up (unlike elementalists which get buffs from using abilities they’d use anyway-sort of like speedy kits).

I’m not saying the engineer doesn’t have good micro and is kitten . What I’m saying is that the engineer (at the moment) is balanced around bad micro (mashing buttons for might stacks). The fact that our strongest builds depend on spamming keys to keep might stacks is very telling of the state of the class. Before HGH got buffed, you’d be hard pressed to convince someone to take a pistol build over explosives. Now p/p is an engineer staple in wvw.

EDIT: I’m not saying that the class needs to be dumbed down and made warrior-Mk2. I’m affirming that this class has a lot of mechanics that detract from the fun it brings (which it does in spades). I think that some of our more mindlessly spammy skills need to be situational and stronger hitting.

A lot of people are just spamming med-kit, or thrown elixirs to get up to 25 stacks of might and do good damage with flamethrower and pistols. Wouldn’t it be nicer if flamethrower did 15% more damage and Juggernaut was a more situational skill that instead of giving you might stacks it gave you 4 seconds of protection and retaliation (on a 10 sec cooldown)? Woudln’t it be nice if pistols did more damage but thrown elixirs no longer give might with HGH?

Thiefz.3695:

With a sigil of frailty in the mists, I was able to keep a constant vuln and bleed stack on all the golems for the entire health bar with just pistol 1. My max stack was 6vuln and 6 bleed. I was also able to keep swiftness and vigor up the entire time as well. I guess the question is, what is the best amount of stacking?

That’s still pretty low if you compare it with the vanilla grenadier spec. What rune set up were you using?

If you want to add up those stacks then go for condition duration. If you like condition+crit change, then go for runes of lyssa. Nightmare runes are also good, although I can’t remember if they’re still bugged.

I don’t know why someone would ask the devs to only give the engineer minor tweaks, considering that’s what we get every patch. I don’t think anyone really expects the devs to break out of the usual buff/nerf routine for the engineer.

That being said, you have to recognize that there is more to the game than tPvP. While we’re pretty alright right now when it comes to WvW, in dungeons we seem to lack a niche. We can compete with the 3 button mashing classes (which I agree are really boring) but we have to do a lot of micromanaging (like using med-kit/thrown-elixirs for might stacks) and that detracts from the fun of the profession.

I’ve tried out a lot of variations on p/p HGH builds and might stacking juggernaut and I find it easier to stack with p/p elixir builds. Have in mind that while each build uses similar rune sets, p/p focuses on a wide variety of longer duration boons than juggernaut.

P/P doesn’t get great until half a minute of fighting. By then you have quite a lot of boon duration stacked up if you did your traits right.

Mind you I’m not saying that p/p is better than flamethrower, I’m just giving some perspective on the kind of boons p/p gives. Both require so much micromanaging that I’d rather stick to explosives (Hate throwing elixirs, however good they are).

Lantz.7240:

I love the idea of our elixir X turning us into something cool but can’t we get something unique to us and guaranteed to be usefull. I keep thinking a giant Ooze would be cool.

Anet ran out of development time for the engineer, which explains the number of “borrowed” skills we share with other classes (and PvE bundles).

I wouldn’t hold my breath until an expansion rolls out. By then the Engineer will be a completely different class if the devs keep tinkering with our traits and damage.

Yeah… Even when KR was an adept trait I only took it for some dungeon runs. No way I’ll ever take it if it becomes a grandmaster.

Zenguy.6421:

Pannonica.5378:

A little bird told me next patch will change game for many builds (this might be a bad thing though).
Theres good things to come and bad things, but the majority of things got me excited if they get implemented as rumoured.
I’d estimate about 30-40 bullet points (and thats not only tooltip or bug fixes!).

We need to stay flexible though and it won’t solve all of our problems, but some labour is being done behind the curtains.
Of course not everybody will be happy and never will.

Hope . . .

I think the Eng class is Anet’s most undeveloped asset. This class has the potential to be the next Mesmer: a genuinely innovative class that’s fun to play, effective, and takes GW2 even further beyond the boring old hitter/blaster/sneaker paradigm.
If ANet are really putting some effort into realising the Eng’s potential that will be awesome. I live in hope . . .

I thought this as well, since we’re not tied to one or two particular builds. Unfortunately, the devs haven’t shown enough interest to bring us up to par, so I’ll just stick to playing my mesmer alt until then.

They scale with condition damage and healing power. That’s about it.

The thumper turret is fine, but making it cripple won’t exactly fix the problems with our builds. That being, dedicating every rune/sigil/trait to boosting damage (and being the most defenseless glass cannon in game) or being a jack of all trades (and pretty bad at what counts).

In any case, I have noticed this problem with the engineer. Most people who make alts will notice this at some point, but if they enjoy the engineer they’ll still play it. My engineer is still my main despite all his faults, I just like him more than any other profession, but I don’t think he’s efficient or good at anything in particular. That’s what mesmer/thief/warrior/guardian/elementalist alts are for.

This question was posed to the devs in the last state of the game, they replied that they had two pages worth of notes for the engineer… then they started talking about the thumper turret…

Several threads on this, very in depth ones at that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Putting-Flamethrower-on-Par-with-GS/first#post1587467

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Flamethrower-is-still-not-worth-the-slot/first

The second is a heavy read, but if you really want to know the ins and outs of the flamethrower, those are the engis you need to listen to (although always with a grain of salt).

Xae.7204:

They’ve been promising “Engineers Changes” for 6 months, since Beta. Most of the changes have been nerfs.

Don’t get excited or hold your breath. Until you read the patch notes they are just blowing smoke.

I share this sentiment. The opening post on this thread made me think we’ll get good things this next patch, then my mind changed when I saw the stream.

These were my impressions on the stream:
~The devs didn’t seem to wan’t to talk about the engineer
~The devs didn’t want to discuss the viability of any engineer builds
~The devs didn’t discuss anything regarding the weaknesses of the engineer profession
~The devs felt that they needed to take time to defend their changes to the profession (nerfs)
~The devs want engineers to be about turrets but they wont just go ahead and buff them, they wan’t to dance around the issue for a few more patches
~The devs made it clear that they will eliminate the 100nades build

Maskaganda is probably your best bet as he is on the forums more frequently than the other big name engineers. Other than him, if you’re still looking for well known engis, I’d suggest Teldo or maybe Five gauge.

I think what Quipter has done is admirable in that he wants to share some knowledge he has acquired from playing the different professions. The way he does so is what I don’t agree with.

Number systems are meant to be used with quantifiable statistical data, not opinion. What would have been more insightful would have been a post describing your ratings and reasoning behind each, where you feel each profession is strong with what kind of builds. You could have separated each professions abilities or class mechanics into categories, counted them up, compared and their effectiveness in each role. What you’ve done is slap meaningless numbers on a sheet of paper based on your unexplained opinion, something few people will agree with and something which gives no information on each profession.

If you wan’t to compare things that cant be quantified (like the effectiveness of professions in this game) you can’t use numbers. This is because very few people will ever agree on the numbers. If you have to make comparisons go into a detailed description, this approach actually does some good as it conveys information.

Also, What exactly are you looking for in this thread Quipter? You seem to react negatively to every piece of feedback and have been shutting down all discussion. If the purpose of this thread is to show your charts but not incite discussion or feedback, then I propose this thread be closed for all the good a thread does like that in a discussion board.

nakoda.4213:

what about a 1 sec cripple within 100 range? (ie, the panic of being coated in liquid sin forgiveness)

Having the flamethrower cripple would effectively solve the mobility problems I’ve been having with it. If I can’t move at max speed while attacking, no one can.

Also, it would make a really good combination with bomb kit.

I’m not sure of what you are asking. Do you mean to highlight the fact that bombs scale better and do more damage than traited grenades? if so, then this isn’t a new thing.

Since the infamous grenade nerf (~30% reduction of grenade 1) bombs have been the higher hitting explosive of the two. This is balanced because grenades have a higher range than bombs and their toolbelt factors into the kit’s total damage, as opposed to BoB which is more useful for it being a blast finisher.

The reason people go for grenades, even when expecting to use them point blank, is because of the limited range and the delay on bomb kit skills. These factors make bomb kit less effective in PvP.

Zinwrath.2049:

Also, our elixer gun heal, whos gonna stay in that? even in PVE scenerios your rarely sitting in one spot tank/spanking, everyone is rolling around trying to kite the boss/monsters. So yea, how about we do away with aimed AE buffs/heals entirely….

This is the main reason I stopped using the elixir gun, and the reason the kit refinement nerf didn’t affect my play-style.

Everyone keeps touting the elixir gun as this massive help during dungeons, when the only ability it’s good for is SE, and the use of SE is situational at best.

In my cleric gear I would get better use out of my on-heal regen runes, than I would out of super elixir, because the runes give party wide regen and are auto cast.

As for keeping allies alive with our boons, I have to disagree. The only party wide boons we have access to are due to combos, every other boon we have is extremely selfish in its use and purpose.

vespers.1759:

i wish rangers had burst like this O.o

Don’t worry. The devs don’t like the engineer having this burst either, a few more patches and you’ll see engineer burst knocked down again.

Every patch they’re screwing with the engineer, at least the ranger’s meta is a little more stable.

Also in dungeons, I find my ranger way better and more useful than my engineer.
To answer your question, the ranger is more viable than the least viable class. It’s probably behind the others though.

NevirSayDie.6235:

I’m currently testing my first serious build that includes a turret, a WvW build. It’s actually working out amazing, but unfortunately engineers have no “bread and butter” turrets, only creative niche uses.

That said, the devs are smart to approach it this way. Ranger is a very popular profession and the pet is obviously the most important part of the profession concept, so it only makes sense that they’d start there. Following the same logic, I’d imagine they’ll discuss necro minions next (and probably warriors in PvP after that—they’re absolutely awful in tournaments).

I’d actually thought of this myself, mid way through the post, I just couldn’t help myself and gave in to the ripple effect this dev’s had on the forums.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Devs-are-talking-pets-in-Ranger-forum

It’s a shame but we’ll probably be thought of last when it comes to UP classes again. Sometimes it really does feel like the engineer is the odd step child class.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Speace.7980:

I was planning to roll an engineer for my 3rd 80 – doubtful now. I’ve been playing mmo’s since early uo and the key word is “play”. I don’t need/want a second job. This is my down time.

It’s a fair apprehension. To me, engineers are really, really fun, but there’s certainly more time spent in research, theorycrafting, etc. than with other professions.

If you do roll an engi, don’t get too set on a build before you see how it plays out. A lot of people start off thinking “this idea I had is going to be amazing!” and then realize later that some of the key traits are bugged or the damage isn’t nearly as high as it seemed like it would be. If you’re willing to try all the kits as well as pistol, shield and rifle, chances are you’ll find something fun and effective.

Also, get used to spending a lot of gold on gear, runes and sigils, mostly right after patch days, as we are a very gear dependent class.

Hello fellow engineers. I’m not sure if anyone in this forum has known of this, but something monumental has happened in the ranger forums as of late. There was a developer reply related to a concern a lot of rangers have been having (One of the reasons I put my ranger alt on ice for the last month to level a mesmer) regarding pets and dungeons. In response to the developer post a thread was created in the ranger forum a day ago, the thread is the following:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Robert-Hrouda-on-pets-in-dungeons/first

The thread is a day old and has received 9 developer replies. Robert Hrouda has not only made me want to keep going with my ranger, but he has also made me regain all the faith I had lost in the gw2 devs over the last few months (After all these buffnerfs we’ve been getting every patch). Also, he has rekindled the thought of opening some kind of dialogue about things that worry and concern the gw2 community.

This thread most likely will not get any dev love and if it does I certainly don’t expect as much attention as the ranger pet dungeon thread. Regardless, I want to try to open a dialogue about something that we engineers hold dear to us but feel frustrated with, the role of turrets in dungeons.

Right now turrets only benefit from our healing power and our condition damage. They offer very little in terms of direct damage, the conditions they offer are short lived and due to being stationary they die very quickly in encounters involving aoe fields.

I’ve greedily read most threads involving turret builds for dungeons and PvP here on the engineer forums and try to take as much information as I can with regards to how to use them effectively. Personally, I haven’t had much luck with them in dungeons (only slotting them here and there during “safe” fights to see them in action), but what I’ve taken and realized about them is that they can offer some very humble assistance in fights when they are placed completely out of the way and offer some CC if destroyed.

What I wonder is this, will turrets always be limited to this? is this what developers always intended for turrets to be?

As it stands most kits and elixirs seem to be a better use of your utilities. The former giving you a wealth of useful abilities, and the later increasing your damage and or survival. When slotting turrets I always need to keep aggro off them (not hard for a grenadier) and work around them to get any use out of the slot. If I don’t they usually get crumpled under the foot of a champ and I have to wait for the duration of their (rather long) cool-downs to get my slot skill back.

When it comes to the detonations, I feel like I might as well bring in bomb kit and use BoB every twenty seconds and get a few more skills out of it.

Most of the time I feel like I’d rather take a kit or a stun breaker as opposed to have to babysit my turret through out the encounter. I usually feel like they burden me as opposed to help my build, which kind of hurts considering they were one of the things that made me choose an engineer to level first.

This thread doesn’t ask for a redesign of turrets, it asks if the devs will dialogue about the role they want turrets to fulfill (specifically in dungeons), whether they do this, and whether there are plans to bring turrets in line with the rest of our arsenal. If all else fails, this thread also asks for insight and advice on how we should “help” our turrets help us during dungeon encounters.

male 3 and 4, female 7

Its like Amadeus has said, we mix power and condition damage because most of our kits benefit from both. It’s a good idea because in some cases a party member might step on your toes when it comes to applying conditions.

I run rabid armor as well, but mix in some trinkets with power (either knight or cleric) just so I don’t fall too far behind in the damage area. I agree that toughness/vitality are necessary in some builds, but if you choose the right gear you can get a little of everything.

I posted something like this before and I liked the idea of removing armor mods in favor of another grandmaster for Gadgets.

Gadget specialist; Using gadgets triggers additional effects.
Battering ram- Skill applies 4 stacks of vulnerability, toolbelt causes 3 stacks of confusion
Rocket boots- Skill causes blind, toolbelt causes 3 stacks of vulnerability
Slick Shoes- Skill applies 4 stacks of vulnerability, toolbelt grants 3 seconds of quickness
Goggles- Skill grant’s 3 stacks of might, toolbelt causes weakness
Mine- Skill causes 3 stacks of confusion, toolbelt strips boons

The additional toolbelt effects can be omitted if they would make the gadget too overpowered.

SilverWF.4789:

McLeige.7625:

at 1242 healing power my bombs heal for 275 each, I can lay them 1 per half second, so 2 per sec. Backpack regenerator does not scale with Healing Power, so it gives me 128 every half second, and regular regeneration buff which does scale off of healing power gives me 291 HP every half sec.

So every half second I heal for 694 HP, or 1,388 per second, actually.

So, your own HPS equal 1388 and HPS for allies equal to 550?

Doesn’t you think it is so pathetic healing for the grandmaster trait? I do and will never use my Engineer for healing allies.
Even for yourself – when you have deal with 3k+ DPS…

Yeah, kind of. I’ve seen healing mantra mesmers puting out party heals for about 2k but those aren’t very common (when making a glass cannon mesmer is what everyone wants now). I like to think of bomb heals as another little regen for our character, although I would love it if it just scaled better with healing power.