Guild Wars 2

Ranging is slower. I’m not even sure what you’re trying to argue anymore. You shouldn’t be able to stack on a boss and DPS him down in less than a minute. That’s a testament to how faceroll dungeons are.

/end

In the end, it’s easier for pugs because that’s what they’re used to. The fact that you can stack on a boss and kill them without doing hardly anything else…Is what makes dungeons faceroll. Bosses are so predictable that that’s all you need to do to win.

And that’s the point I was making.

I meant compared to meleeing and not stacking. I thought that was obvious. If you just attack the boss where he’s standing, half will try to melee and half will try to range when the going gets tough and it will hurt everyone.

It’s slower, never said it was harder. Stacking is both quick and easy.

I was pointing out easily dodgeable, because it’s just as easy to dodge an attack while on top of the boss then when you are spread out. The biggest benefit of stacking with pugs is the party buffs and the easy access to res’ing the downed players. You don’t need to be ontop of eachother for party buffs but when you’re playing with pugs and you’re not stacking, some will start to use ranged attacks and spread too far out. And that not only slows down the DPS but it weakens the melee tankiness as there are fewer people soaking up the damage. And fewer buffs/heals going around.

I think the pug definition of stacking is actually stacking. Forcing the boss to follow you next to a wall and dpsing him down. I’m referring to dungeons, not fractals. Higher level fractals are still stackable but the average pug group will range the bosses down. It’s slower, but not any harder.

Because any boss with a hard hitting skill has a noticeable tell and is generally easily avoided by dodging into him. The rest of their attacks are negligible and easily tankable. And stacking assures you get full party buffs and heals from not being too spread out. It’s best for pugs because they’re used to it and it works.

TheFrighteningFrenchFry.3275:

Kagamiku.9731:

Wethospu.6437:

When I did AC first time my group spent like 2 hours on Kholer until we quit. When I did Gorseval first time we got it on second try.

Not to mention a huge amount of topics complaning about too hard dungeon difficulty and oneshots.

Even if you didn’t know faceroll stacking is enough to beat any dungeon. It doesn’t matter how old raids become, they will never be as explotable and as easy as dungeons.

Unless you were carried by 9 very experienced players.

First: stacking is actually a bad idea on bosses most of the time
Second: Wethopsu didn’t get carried by anyone, I’d advise you watch his youtube videos

Some of the time. I never said stacking was the most viable or the fastest but it’s the easiest and it works on virtually any boss that stands still. And anyone can do it.

How can he prove that it took him two tries? That is what I doubt. Not that he did beat him. So unless he has a way to prove that, I don’t know what looking at his youtube channel will accomplish. I know who he is.

Am I supposed to take someone seriously that legitimately thinks raids are not much harder than dungeons? You can be a skilled player and still be full of kitten to prove a point.

Wethospu.6437:

When I did AC first time my group spent like 2 hours on Kholer until we quit. When I did Gorseval first time we got it on second try.

Not to mention a huge amount of topics complaning about too hard dungeon difficulty and oneshots.

And now dieing in AC is virtually unheard of. You were A.) new to the game back then and B.) didn’t know how to dodge the one attack that can actually kill you. Had you the experience as you do now back then, you would have noticed his obvious 1-shot tell and easily completed that dungeon. Even if you didn’t know faceroll stacking is enough to beat any dungeon. It doesn’t matter how old raids become, they will never be as explotable and as easy as dungeons. Because they have mechanics that require good team coordination and a skilled dps rotation.

While the raid bosses will always give a risk of death regardless how experienced you are. Because 1 person on team failing means whole team fails.

Gorseval on second try? Sorry, that’s bs. Unless you were carried by 9 very experienced players. Unless all ten of the people on your team have the raid boss memorized, you’re not beating gorseval on second try. A skilled raid group without experience on the boss would take far, far more than two tries. And even if you do have it memorized, so many things can go wrong in that fight. Like gliders not deploying or orbs in terrible spots.

Wethospu.6437:

Requests like this are ridiculous. Raids are not that much harder than dungeons/fractals.

uh, yes they are. I beat frac 100 on my first attempt…Just getting to Gorseval has taken roughly 20 attempts. To beat a raid you need all 10 members to be on the same page and hardly ever mess up. All dungeons are faceroll easy (I can solo most of them…) and to beat a high level fractal you only need 1 or two good players to keep res’ing people when they’re down. The timer really makes it worlds harder than any fractal. If gorseval isn’t dead soon after his final phase you practically explode. And it takes a near perfect team composition and a high DPS check with good players to do that. One weak link in your team means you will probably fail time and time again. Sure, you can go into a raid with 10 very experienced people and get it done without a whole lot of trouble, but how many attempts did it take for every player to reach that point? While no dungeons and only maybe two fracs (94 mostly) isn’t pug friendly.

Though I will say the individual skill for these raids isn’t incredibly high, when you factor that you need 10 people to not kitten up throughout the whole fights (and someone usually always does) it can become mind numbing after a time. It’s also why pugging tends to be a disaster. And the updraft on Gorseval is broken as kitten since 80% of my fails were one of my team dropping to his death because the updraft didn’t catch him.

That’s not true. You can get a fractal of any level going if you’re persistent enough. While most people will not attempt them, enough people play fractals to where some will take the bait eventually. It might take 20minutes, but it will happen. I completed my 50-100 achievement only recently.

You can’t fix fractals without giving better rewards too. So you’re going to force players to do fracs they don’t want to do while giving the same kittenty rewards? The better rewards need to come either first, or at the same time as fixing the rest of fractals. And harder fractals need to give exponentially better rewards, or whats’ the point of doing them at all?

There is nothing selfish about what the players are choosing to do. They’re optimizing their time within the game to get as much from the mediocre rewards as possible. They’re not forcing players to join their groups. Hell, from what I’ve seen, they’re not even forcing them to wear a particular stat combination. As long as they have the ar, and they know what to do then any player is welcome. I’d say it’s more selfish to expect players to play in fracs that you need completed despite them having already accomplished that goal themselves. Sub 50fracs aren’t so bad, but 70+ are literal hell with their incredibly high HP. My dredge pug (highest dredge scale) group took 2 hours to complete because the boss took 30minutes of constant attacking and many of the pugs could not stay alive long enough to kill it.

All of the veteran frac players have completed fracs hundreds, if not thousands of times. Almost no one cares about fracs beyond doing dailies. You’re just going to get a bunch of disgruntled players if you randomize fracs without increasing their rewards. Most people playing fracs now are only in it for the legendary backpack. Once that’s done, there will be even fewer people playing fracs.

Everyone who is at that fractal level has played each one of the fractals multiple times. Not to mention the higher level fractals can be complete hell to finish without a decent group. AND the rewards are no better for the harder fractals. And even the easier fracs don’t particularly give a good time/reward investment. You’re wasting your time to do any other fractal unless you’re trying to complete the 50-100 achievement for the golden fractal weapon (which I already have). Unless they drastically increase the rewards of the harder fracs and make higher level fracs far more rewarding in general; it’s common sense to only do those two fractals. After a point, fractals is farming just like any other part of the game, and doing swamp/molten is no easier than any of the other mindless farming that’s part of the game. Especially arguably the most rewarding of all, SW chest farming.

tl;dr All fracs give the same rewards despite some being monumentally harder and longer than others. Give me 10 gold for completing a high level dredge fractal and I might consider doing it. Until then, let people do what fractals they choose to do, thanks.

What exactly is good about fractal leaderboards? It’s just a way for organized groups to measure their e – peen compared to other organized groups. Nothing good really comes from it. The only thing it might do is stop the more decent players from playing with pubs because they fear they’ll hold them back.

I should have known the last part to making the legendary backpack would be backed behind a gold sink like all the other legendaries.

I did the 80% reduction to healing challenge mote for the 3rd tier of the legendary backpack collection and did not receive my collection reward. Has anyone else had this issue?

Raid’s aren’t the only part of the game. They’re a very small fraction of the game. I wouldn’t even say the rewards are that high when even the best groups with teamspeak take so many hours trying to beat each raid boss. And regardless how good you become at the raid, you can still only reap the rewards once a week. And that takes a great deal of time and dedication in the first place.

Is there a way to complete Bark breaker? None of the husks appear to have a defiance bar. Is there a husk somewhere that does?

As for pact camper, the part of the event chain where you have to rescue the sylvari from vigilante…Where exactly does that take place? I’ve done the pact camper multiple times and have yet to see that even come up.

Lastly, I’ve looked everywhere for the skritt salvager, but have yet to have any luck.

Why would use use krait runes with GS/hammer and rampage? That doesn’t make any sense.

Necro’s are incredibly OP against other condition builds. Just mediocre against other stuff. But since you don’t consider power based damage a direct counter to berserker’s stance then I guess power based damage isn’t a counter to corrupting/transferring conditions.

Berserker’s stance lasts 8 seconds. 8 seconds is not a counter to anything. It does absolutely nothing against power damage. And even condition builds can work around it if they’re smart. Like necro’s placing wurm somewhere they can port to right after warrior activates their stance.

When you interrupt battle standard does it go on full CD? No, it doesn’t this means the interrupt just delays the BS for the next down. To add to this you can also watch your ally and CANCEL your own BS if you see it is going to miss or be ineffective. The only way to make someone burn their CD is to apply poison AND get the enemy below 30% or w/e the exact is or to full kill them in 2 seconds flat.

That applies to every skill in the game. If a warrior is stunned once while trying to land BS he is likely going to fail trying to do it multiple times. Not only so most classes have multiple stuns, but most classes also build bursty. He’s going to sacrifice all of his HP and probably fail to res in the process. Especially in a situation where it’s a 2v2 and the warriors teammates was downed. They need only stun the warrior once, and then burst him down as well.

The skill has a cooldown far to long for it to achieve nothing after being used correctly. 240seconds! You can only use it a couple times during a match. The way PvP is currently the person you’re trying to banner could be dead in a few seconds. People don’t even try to stomp anymore because of how quickly peoples health burns in downstate.

As far as it being as good as as rampage, that’s subjective to the role you are bringing to your team. BS is still an INCREDIBLY big game changer and is always welcome in critical teamfights.

There is only one real role warrior can play in the current meta, and that’s bursty. If you’re going to play some other role, just role an Ele. They’re better in every other feasible way. And rampage is far better for this role.

And even then, rampage in its current state is better 100% of the time.

Then we can look at skills like, idk tornado, glyph of elemental, spirit of nature, dagger storm, even flesh golem for the most part are so beyond the level of useful, let alone competitive you really shouldn’t be complaining. You have 3 competitively viable elite skills, that’s more than basically every other class. You’re mad because you didn’t understand a mechanic of the ability and want it to work the way you thought it did rather than the way its worked for years… You want to remove the only counter-play BESIDES killing the target in a 2 second window making it basically dummy proof, and that’s wrong.

So basically, “because my class has a bad elite skill, I want battle standard to not do what the tooltip says it should do even if the skill isn’t nearly as good as I think it is and has an insanely long cooldown”
It’s one of these posts, I get it now.

And for the record, I know exactly how BS worked. But since it was brought up in a thread, I figured I should give my 2-cent on how dumb it is.

Even so, everyone is running rampage, that’s reason enough to make BS more viable.

Even if cleansing ire is not enough, you can pick up shouts and run soldier runes, you can pick up warhorn,

lol this guy. So basically play shoutbow or bust. Shoutbow sucks now. It’s not even viable with how bursty everything is (notice how every warrior is yolo zerker now). And you can’t say using shouts and soldier runes is a viable way to clear conditions in the first place. That’s a runeset anyone with shouts can use, it’s not a class skill/mechanic/trait.

It’s not a “I want counterplay” it’s an “I want all stances to be food for necro’s like balanced stance already is”

There are so many overpowered skills and builds right now, and berserkers stance is far down that list. Hell, without rampage warrior is mediocre. That is their true trump card. And even with rampage, they’re still trumped by mesmers and ele’s and guards…

And whats truly funny is necros are the true condition killers. The more conditions you apply to them the more they’re going to send back at you. Or how they corrupt your boons and replace them with conditions. With a 1/2 second casttime, and unblockable. Where is the counterplay in that?

The counterplay is the two second cast time where it can be interrupted via daze/stun/fear and so on. It isn’t insta-cast and it has a long cooldown. That is the opposite of a skill without counterplay. It’s also an elite skill on a 240 second cooldown, so it either does something or you dun wasted the longest cooldown skill in the game.

Compare that to rampage, where it’s 20seconds of destroying anyone dumb enough to try and fight you 1v1 or even 2v1. Much shorter cooldown too. Both Banner and rampage easily win fights, yet battle has a longer cast time and cooldown.

How few people even use battle standard in PvP now, compared to the o-mighty rampage? Signet of Rage is even more popular. Battle Standard was really only common with shoutbow and since shoutbow isn’t even good anymore because of how squishy it is against the current burst in this game, every warrior runs yolo rampage builds. Because it works better.

I’m sorry if you can’t see that.

Sunshine.5014:

online.1278:

I am pretty sure this is what anet really need to fix. Since battle standard has like longest cd time and there isn’t any banner cd time decrease from its trait, anet need to fix that it can just rez anybody regardless of downed ally got poison or low hp or whatever. Well it has to becuz it can be interrupted easily as well.

No, it’s not a bug. It allows for counter play. Battle Standard shouldn’t be an “I win” button. It can drastically change who will win a team fight.

A skill on a 2 second casttime has no counterplay?

And that 240 second cooldown…

You’re funny.

Also going by the tooltip, it is a bug:
“Place a battle standard that revives fallen allies and grants fury, might, and swiftness to allies.”

Certain circumstances should not impede battle standards ability to revive someone.

I’m sorry, but you’re not taking regeneration and signet of restoration (protection too) into consideration. Water Magic too (even more so if they trait for it) when they reach that attunement and need some more skills to spam. All of these things happen passively by simply spamming spells. The more they spam, the more they heal. That is yoloing in a nutshell.

Even if they stood still and did absolutely nothing, you could not remove their diamond skin instantly (several hits). But if they actually use their skills, it becomes the ultimate counter to condition builds.

You’re just making stuff up to try and prove your point. A rabid/dire specced character will not drop an ele below 90% health unless he stands still and lets you take it from him.

x Charlie.4820:

skowcia.8257:

While we have diamond skin eles running around facerolling any condi builds out here.

Diamond skin requires a commitment. You can’t run around hitting like a truck with diamond skin because your health threshold will drop too quick and you won’t be able to regain that health back.

(Cele ele has issues, mostly burn, i admit)

Glasscannon eles can’t get much benefit from this trait. With zerker stance it makes 0 difference if your a tank or a full glass yolo warrior, The effect is the same.

What are you talking about? A diamond skin ele will never drop below 90% health when fighting a dire/rabid build. No exceptions. Now if the ele was fighting two people (dire and power build) there would be a problem for the ele. This applies to berserker stance as well.

They’re both countered by the same thing. Power based damage.

x Charlie.4820:

Maybe because i’m unable to fear/chill/cripple or apply weakness to him?

While not completely immune, a rampage warrior is 66% immune.
Rampage warrior with weakness still hits really hard, and I know you cant’t apply it for the full duration. The same goes for chill and cripple. It’s a very brief solution to rampage. Not to mention most classes have hardly any access to fear/chill. That’s strictly a necro forte.

No in that case i would just blind or root and stand behind it, depending on my class. Slick shoes works too.

For 15 seconds? And slick shoes doesn’t really work as they have pulsing stability as well.

Yes i agree, zerker stance has less counters than zerker stance.

Yeah, you must have started replying 5 seconds after I posted.

x Charlie.4820:

Where did i say i run from rampage and lich? I don’t run from either because they both have counters. Rampage with it’s pulsing stability and necro have signet trait just results in the warrior repeatedly fearing himself.

That’s not a counter. It pulses 2 stacks of stability every 3 seconds for 20 seconds. You don’t have even close to the amount of boonstrip/CC to stop a rampage warrior. Three auto attacks is enough to kill some classes. If they hit you with any of their CC you’re really done for. You obviously need to kite rampage to even consider surviving, and it lasts a full 20 seconds. With tons of CC thrown in. So why can’t you last 8 seconds against a berserker stance warrior and yet somehow you can last a full 20 against a rampage warrior?

Lich can just be countered by blind or heavy cc in short duration.

Solo? Nopenope. Sure, CC them, but they have far more HP than you and hit far harder than you. Maybe if you’re dealing with a lich that’s already hurt badly, but a fresh lich form with full HP? You’re not going to solo it.

Sure you might think rampage is strong, This thread is primarily about zerker stance. I would suggest making a new thread to discuss about rampage.

Well you talk about things needing counters, when rampage has far less counter than zerker stance. So it’s a valid argument.

If running is a valid strategy for rampage and lich, why is it not for zerker stance?

Where zerker stance only makes one build run from you. Rampage makes every class and build run from you. Why is this so hard to understand. Without zerker stance, rampage will still roll people. Warrior will be even more reliant rampage then ever.

I don’t know, Do they last 8 seconds and can they be chain cast with another ability which reduces all direct damage for another 6-7 seconds?
If so, i would say yes, quite possibly. nearly 20 seconds of immunity to direct damage while being able to attack is pretty overpowered.

Most warriors take defy pain for another 4 seconds. So they have 8 seconds of physical immunity. Two skills/traits though.

The resistant on healing signet..I would be happy if they got rid of that, if you’re going to use that as an additional excuse to nerf berserker stance. Healing signet heals for basically nothing when activated, so the resistance was there to make it more “viable” I would much prefer it to just heal for more when you activate it.

I would argue its only just behind ele thief, mesmer and gaurd.

So 5th best? Sounds pretty balanced. Even on the low end of the spectrum.

Oh come on, lets not pretend you don’t know what i meant. You wouldn’t make an endure pain discussion thread and talk about how op it is against conditions.

So is endure pain and Signet of Stone OP against power builds?

Also, shoutbow just doesn’t have the sustain to deal with this burst meta. Still good vs. conditions, but lacks damage and sustain against burst classes. That’s why everyone is running Greatsword now. They had to join the burst meta like everyone else. Except D/D ele’s, ‘cause they’re still ridiculously tanky and deal heavy damage with burn.

Lifeblast can get diamond skin down most of the time. Along with our golem. Once it’s down it usually doesn’t get back up. Ontop of that they have less cc and overall damage.

I’m sorry, but you’re not getting a d/d Celestial ele down to 90% health with a purely condition based build. And if by some miracle you do, they merely need to go into water and heal up instantly. And this process will repeat itself, until you’re dead. Less CC they might have, but ele has more of everything else. Mesmers and Ele are on top.

You keep talking about having no counter, but power based damage IS the counter. Literally every class has a counter to zerker stance in the form of what armor they’re wearing. Condition builds are the ones it counters, albeit temporarily. And more players run power builds than condition builds.

There is no counterplay to it. It’s the only skill in the game that actually makes you run away for 8 seconds. It doesn’t matter if it’s rampage or hammer.

Diamond Skin says hi, except then you just run away forever, right? Also I’d really like to see a video of you soloing lich form or rampage without you running from them with your tail between your legs.

The fact they are the stronger sets is due to the cc capability.

Hammer is so easy to dodge, I don’t even. The only thing I can think of is you don’t see them proc zerker stance, and you keep pewpewing away in melee range, only to realize you haven’t been doing any damage to them and they now have you in a CC combo. Kite them for 8 seconds, it’s not hard.

As posted earlier, The ONLY class that will be able to remove it is mesmers and necros.

And thiefs. That’s almost half the classes. And warriors already have a huge problem with those classes. Blind spam, fear spam…Everything about a mesmer is spam.

The only thing it changes is that now you have 8 seconds of condition immunity and not 8 seconds of condition immunity followed by 5 seconds of little to no conditions that are easily removed by other means.

What are you even talking about here? Berserker’s stance is 8 seconds where conditions can’t be applied to you. What is this “followed by 5 seconds of little to no conditions”

It’s not that big of a nerf. It just allows some room for condi classes to do something other than go afk when he actives it.

It is a big nerf. Big enough to where warriors would stop using it because of how easily strippable boons are on a warrior.

Warrior: Pops zerker stance
Necro: I’ll be taking that!
Warrior: All these fears….

Or thiefs saving their steal for when we pop zerker stance, so they can blind spam us to death.

x Charlie.4820:

I responded earlier but it got deleted. Stop seeing this purely from a necro v warrior 1v1 perspective and look at it from a broader scale. The example i gave earlier was just an example. The problem doesn’t lie with rampage because you can remove stab/Apply movement hindering conditions or blind. The problem lies with zerker stance.

I’m seeing it from your point of view, because that’s the class you play. There are many builds and classes that can faceroll a zerker stance warrior. The only builds that have a large issue with it are the ones that go purely condition damage…And that’s the consequence you pay for using a tanky condition spec. Even then, it’s not like you can’t leave for a whole 8 seconds until you’re able to damage them again. Flesh worm comes in very useful for this.

I can screenshot you my games played if you want. They’re all roughly the same with mesmer having 3×. Don’t judge people based on whats written in a signature. I can write anything there.

Well, mesmer is one of the classes that pretty much hard counters warrior. Even if you were to run full condition, they can just invis themselves until their stane is used.

Yes, Necro should be able to remove it. It’s their job. Do you think it would be balanced if deathshroud gave necros an unremovable cc immunity?

It gives them a full life bar. Pretty kitten good I’d say.

It’s a necro’s job to remove boons and apply it to themselves. Berserker’s stance isn’t a boon. It’s a warrior specific skill that prevent taking condition damage for 8 seconds. So no, it isn’t their job to remove berserker’s stance. It’s got a 60 second cooldown that serves one purpose. To have a necro rip it from them with the click of a button. That would be real cool, right?

Kagamiku.9731:

We’re all entitled to opinions. Theres no need to get so aggressive emphasizing on the “IS” This is all opinions, There’s no right and wrong. Rampage was barely used prepatch because the damage wasn’t great. Now the damage is pretty high but it becomes unstoppable when paired with zerker stance.

And this is why I feel you’re only looking at this through a monocle. Rampage can be traited to do roughly 250% attack damage, it decreases the damage you take by 25%, it doubles your HP pool, skills and traits you activate before using rampage transfer over to rampage once you use it…So many things make rampage an unstoppable force, and yet somehow berserker stance is what you’ve concluded to be overpowered. Sounds legit.

What I don’t get is why you even brought up rampage at all if Berserker Stance is what you have beef with. I already listed an easy fix to your dilemma with zerker stance rampage. Stances currently applied to you do not transfer over to rampage.

Problem solved.

Hammerwarrior is the same thing, Zerker stance makes it unstoppable. You have to just rely on them to be bad and eventually miss something or chain all their cc when you stunbreak and dodge.

No, it doesn’t make them unstoppable. They’re very easy to deal with on anything that’s not purely condition damage. They have to rely on you being bad because all of their skills are highly telegraphed. Don’t dodge their earthshaker? Well, you deserve what comes next. 8 seconds isn’t even enough to contest a point. Pay attention to when they pop it, disengage, and finish them off after the stance wears off. Because they’re at a disadvantage without it.

PvP is a team game, if your condition spec is having issues with a berserker stance warrior, then let one of your other teammates deal with them. ‘cause y’know, most classes have been running power specs…Where Berserker stance is far less useful.

So your in agreement that it’s so strong it’s used in nearly all builds?

I’m in agreement that warrior is far from the best class currently, and berserker stance is a key to letting them deal with some of their counters. Warriors can’t stack a kitten ton of boons like some other classes, if zerker stance ever became a boon, it would be counter productive to use at all. So many classes could use it against them, while they wasted a skill on a long cooldown.

You get so personal. It’s not “Just me” Anyone with a full condition build “Can’t deal” with zerker stance.

I just think you’re completely out of touch with what needs nerfed, and what needs to be left alone.

x Charlie.4820:

Kagamiku.9731:

No counterplay to berserkers stance —-> Physical damage.

berserker’s stance is perfectly fine. Rampage is the problem.

I think the opposite, Rampage is actually somewhat useful now. It’s zerker stance that makes it unstoppable. If you play certain classes your as good as dead when he hits zerker stance.

I’m not sure why everyone gets resistance but warrior is an exception to the rule.

You’re saying that rampage warriors are facerolling you because of zerker stance, and yet you want zerker stance to be a resistance because you’re a necro that can easily remove the boon from them. Sorry, but no. Rampage IS the problem. Zerker stance is needed for many warrior builds and nerfing it just because you can’t deal with a zerker stance rampage is clearly an issue with rampage, not zerker stance. Let’s just nerf a skill because you can’t deal with a warrior when he activates it while in rampage and its 150 second cooldown…While massively nerfing a warrior not in rampage in the process.

Here is a simple fix to your problem without completely gutting unnecessary things: While in rampage, all currently applied stances are removed.

No counterplay to berserkers stance —→ Physical damage.

berserker’s stance is perfectly fine. Rampage is the problem.

Darknicrofia.2604:

Kagamiku.9731:

Pre-patch, warriors were run for shoutbow for their strong support and survivability. Zerker Guardians are vastly better than a zerker warrior in terms of sustain. They have true invulnerabilities, and they can use meditations to heal themselves and they have unavoidable instant cast damage. They also have protection, aegis, and blinds. Warriors have the higher HP pool but they have no way to sustain that HP from any big damage attacks. People don’t look at the big picture when they compare classes, go figure.

This has not changed post-patch. Except shoutbow sucks now.

the only thing that changed is that rampage is a better skill than any other skill in the game.

It’s definitely strong but it’s a one trick pony used for one game mode. The strongest skill in the game is Feel my Wrath (funnily enough, it’s a guardian skill) Group wide quickness (5seconds) and fury (10seconds) on a 30second cd (24 seconds when traited). No other quickness skill even comes remotely close. Hell, no other skill even comes close to the damage output it can provide. Compare that to time warp which is 10 seconds of group quickness (and slow) on a 180 second cooldown.

RevanCorana.8942:

No a Guard with zerker amulet is basically a freekill that doesn’t even deal more damage than a marauder warriors.
The fact that Guards dmg cant compare to Warriors is due 2 things first they need either barbarian or marauder amulet for the vitality being a melee with 11k is just not possible so its a dmg loss.
Then Warriors already have much higher dmg multiplier on autoattacks and skill and can use berserker amulet because of their high vitality.
Also they can ignore team spike for short duration while still attacking for 16 seconds! nothing like renewed focus that removes point capture contribution!

A freekill? Guardian is pretty much the only counter to mesmers in their current state, while mesmers hard counter any warrior not currently in rampage. Yes, the mesmer notorious for their high unavoidable burst damage is at a large disadvantage against a zerker guardian, while they will completely faceroll a warrior. Why you ask? Because their sustainability is simply better. They can survive multiple bursts with their various utility and weapon skills, while also applying large amount of cleave and burning damage that is far harder to avoid than warrior skills. Their ability to instant gap close via ports is also extremely useful.

Guardians are also one of the current classes able to abuse burn damage to ridiculous levels. And regardless what you say, their burst damage potential is insane. Is it larger than warriors? Probably not, but it’s far easier to land high damage skill on a guardian than it is for a warrior to land a high damage skill.

As for your 16seconds of ignoring spike damage, that’s some fairy tail you came up with. No one runs defiant stance for a good reason (as healing signet is better, always) and defy pain is an unreliable trait that procs at 25% health. By then conditions have stacked ontop of you and you might be even be dead already if they hit you with a burst around 30% HP. And then there is Balanced Stance. For a whole two more seconds of physical damage immunity (endure and defy pain +1 second) we lose cleansing ire. No one is going to realistically take that even if we traited for all three stances. So with balanced stance/defy pain/endure pain/defiant stance we would have 13 3/4 seconds of physical immunity and 3 3/4 seconds of complete immunity. Still not 16, and it’s a large nerf to our sustain in reality as both cleansing ire and healing signet are better for that. What warriors do have is four seconds of physical immunity and 8 seconds where conditions can’t be applied to them, plus another 4 seconds of physical immunity that has a strong chance of proccing at a bad time leading us to more likely run away than continue the fight. Assuming conditions don’t kill them before we can run.

If you look at things in a vacuum and fail to look outside the box and see why a zerker guardian has more sustainability than a warrior, I don’t know what to say.

Pre-patch, warriors were run for shoutbow for their strong support and survivability. Zerker Guardians are vastly better than a zerker warrior in terms of sustain. They have true invulnerabilities, and they can use meditations to heal themselves and they have unavoidable instant cast damage. They also have protection, aegis, and blinds. Warriors have the higher HP pool but they have no way to sustain that HP from any big damage attacks. People don’t look at the big picture when they compare classes, go figure.

This has not changed post-patch. Except shoutbow sucks now.

Also, engi stealth is only something they can use to escape or initiate, they don’t have enough access to it to use it regularly in combat. And ranger can only have stealth in longbow. All other ranger builds have no access to it.

denis.9487:

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

What are you talking about? Most classes can’t do most of those, let alone all of those.

Two classes that come closest are thief, and ele. I find ele OP as well (at least they can’t invis spam)…And thief needs to melee you if they’re going to kill you so makes them far more risky to play. They also lack great CC’s (just basilisk venom).

Provost.6210:

Aomine.5012:

Provost.6210:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Lets consolidate our thoughts for the next patch.
what are the classes ranking from number 1 (needs the most nerfs) to number 7 (needs the least nerfs)?

1) Mesmers
2) Elementalist
3) Engineers
4) Thieves
5) Warriors
6) Guardians
7) Rangers

You’ve got to be kidding me.

Try this:

1) Mesmers
2) Engineers
3) Necromancers
4) Rangers
5) Thieves
6) Conditions overall
7) Stealth as a mechanic
8) Thieves (I know it’s on here twice, but it’s my list so I’ll say it as many times as I want)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
99999) Elementalists

Are we playing the same game sir?

I ought to ask the same question of you if you think elementalists need to be nerfed.

This always happens when eles start appearing in the meta. We get hit with every possible nerf bat such that people notice when an elementalist actually appears on your team (or you get schooled by one). And, of course, it’s just downhill from there.

“waah waah this ele beat me. He moved around and used his skills, no fair!”

Suck it up.

Ele’s have always been in the meta. They’re the best pve class, one of the best pvp classes, and one of the best wvw zerg/roaming classes. They’re literally the meta of every game mode. That was prepatch, before they received their post-patch buffs. Yeah, they’re even stronger now.

Mesmer and Ele is literally on top top of the list of 90% of the posters here. That ought to say something.

Mesmer was never a “free kill” it pains me when people try to pretend that it was. Mesmers were not amazing in pvp because thief counter and point style capture. Even so, EU used mesmers quite often in high tier.

In an actual dueling scenario, mesmer was one of the strongest classes even before the patch…They were buffed to absurd levels post patch so now even mediocre mesmers can faceroll better players 1v1.

Too many baseline traits…

danizmax.4329:

Well if you must know, with that 45 character title limitation there was now way I could says what I wanted, I wanted to write “low ranked players” at the end I gave up and wrote “p.” lol xD

Only one problem…Your title is not 45 characters even if you spelled out “low rank players”…

Just remove the “…” at the end and you’re good.

“He is so boring ‘cause I suck with him and get rolled by ele’s and mesmers”

Fixed that for you.

I don’t think OP thinks every class on his list should be nerfed, he just poorly worded the thread. It’s a strongest classes (which needs nerfed) to weakest classes (which needs buffed) And there are classes in-between which are balanced. I’m just going to assume he forgot to add necro…

I personally think Guardian should be right below Ele, but I agree beyond that.

Mesmer: Too much stealth, powerblock shouldn’t work on a players healing skills. Too much burst especially because of too much blind and how easy it is for them to stun/daze you. Too much blind.

Ele: Too much sustain and too much burn.

Guardian: Feels like they do too much damage considering how many get out of jail free cards they have.

Godzilla.7629

I checked my wallet and the balance was the same

The challenge is never the reward. The challenge is fun to most people because of the reward. If you have nothing to look forward to upon completion, then there is little reason to dedicate so much time to success.

Though titles, minis, skins are fine rewards. But if people are to repeatedly do them, there will need to be gold incentive, as you can only receive a title, the mini or a skin…once.

You need to hint at the notion you were being sarcastic for anyone to interpret it in such a way…

A good player will change his skills based on what he needs. If you’re incapable of dealing with rampage, and you’re a mesmer….Pick polymorph and moa him. You play the class with the most counters to rampage and you refuse to use the biggest counter of all. Whose fault is that?

All you need is one stealth and moa. Rampage is no more.

Makes me want to bang my head on a wall when people use “broken” wrongly. Broken is something that is not working correctly, such as guardian symbols and grenade barrage when traited with grenadier. Rampage is working exactly as it is intended. Whether or not it it is too strong is open for debate. It’s not broken, regardless.

Having said that, with how OP ele’s and mesmers are at the moment, rampage is hardly an issue…Because warriors are actually easy to deal with outside of their elite skill. Ele’s don’t even need an elite skill to 2v1 you.

SlayerSixx.5763:

If I’m not mistaken, swapping atunements is the same as your regular weapon swapping. They have four attunements. Assuming no fresh air and the Ele is rotating at a decent pace, it isn’t hard to understand how he’d maintain so many stacks of poison.

It has a 9second cooldown so that shouldn’t matter.

The most a single sigil of doom should provide is 6 seconds of poison. 6 seconds of poison every 9 seconds…Assuming you proc it on a target every time.