I don’t know, my first campaign was Prophecies and I got my first character to level 20 just before leaving Kryta (in fact I think it was during the Divinity Coast mission). I still had the Maguuma Jungle, Crystal Desert, South Shiverpeaks and Ring of Fire to go, had barely started the ‘real’ storyline (I still thought it’d be all about the charr).
It wasn’t as fast as Factions or Nightfall, but still pretty quick compared to other games. Even in non-grindy single-player RPGs you usually won’t hit the max level until very close to the end of the game.
That does not sound very “normal”. Mobs outside of LA is lv11. Mobs outside of Sanctum Cay is lv17. Arriving at LA a character should be lv15 +/-2. If the level difference is more than 6 mobs give no experience. A 19 character would not have gotten any exp from the mobs in Divinity’s Coast. Completing the mission and bonus would have given 2k exp but you would have had to somehow get within 2k exp of leveling from even lower level mobs.
Going back on to the topic of the thread though. I have yet to see any reason given for the benefit of loitering about at lower level. “Too fast” implies there are reasons to not level. The only benefit I can think of is for opening champ bags and even that is only slightly useful.
The reason to not level is that the horrible downscaling system renders all pre-80 content childs play for a player with even a mediocre skill level. It completely ruins the fun of exploring the world, map completion, etc. because what is a serious threat to newbies turns into “kill 20 mobs at once with my whirl -sunglasses-”.
Fixing the scaling could help, but ultimately there is far too much pre-80 content in this game (most of it, in fact) to justify the current levelling speed.
And as I pointed out earlier, levelling is something that can provide alot of value to a game, despite how many people do not like it. When properly implemented, it encourages socializing, teamwork, and can even be relaxing.
ArenaNet clearly realized this with HoT, or we wouldn’t have masteries… :P
I shall look forward to HoT then. *throw moneys at the screen
I feel like the levelling is way too fast. I don’t even bother to use all of the boosters, tomes etc. that I received over time because if I make a new character i would be level 80 within a week of casual play anyway, and within days of hardcore play.
Another problem is, the levelling curve being so shallow means that players never need other players help to level. I’m not talking about grinding here, I am talking about killing mobs and doing events in a party so that you get the most benefit. The current system enforces soloing because it is not difficult enough to warrant partying.
I know the system has alot of positives, but it also has alot of negatives, and I hope that eventually ArenaNet (and players) will understand those negatives.
YES. Oh yes. I agree with you 100%. I never used any booster because it will make leveling even faster and I hate that.
A BIG agree on the players interaction during leveling. I feel like playing a single player game when leveling. Other players can’t affect my leveling positively or negatively. By positively, I mean help from other players. By negatively, I mean ks or pk. I agree they are annoying, but that’s life. You have to deal with problems. I don’t understand why modern MMORPGs are so paranoid about cyber bullies. Most of them even removed open world pk and GW2, even better, removed ks. In the old days, you can’t even report for such silly things. You have to deal with it. You can join guilds, meet friends, make alliances and fight back. That’s the BEST part of MMORPG. Modern MMORPGs have so much peacefulness, so much fairness, so much protection, and are so boring.
From my understanding, there are two types of stories.
The first one is your personal story, which is your character story, just like the story mode of single player game. It will repeat every single time a new character is created, as long as you choose the same path.
The other one is the story of the world, aka the Living World. This is the story of the world we are playing in, Tyria. This does not repeat. If you missed it, you missed it, supposedly. Just like the events in the real world, the car accident happened on the street is happened, with or without you.
So, back to the game. Living world season 1 left permanent effect in Tyria, the destroyed Lion’s Arch. That is not replay-able because it is technically impossible to have Lion’s Arch destroyed for some players, and not destroyed for some other players. Anet took a different approach (put it in instances??) to LW season 2, which makes it replay-able. Players who were there (logged in), when LW season 2 is ACTUALLY happening, get the content for free. Those who did not, like you and me, have to PAY for it (WHY ANET? WHY???).
I am a new player too and I am still grinding gold hoping one day I will have enough gold to buy the gems required for LW season 2. So, please correct me if I am wrong.
I may be taking this the wrong way, but I think I can relate. I also like to take things pretty slowly, mainly due to being a completionist. It’s a bit different than other games, but try thinking of level as more of a minor goal. The end goal is simply building up your characters. Go for all the achievements, gear, appearance, and above all personal skill level. It’s actually pretty nice being able to do this on multiple characters (though I’ve always been an altoholic). The classes all play very differently and are very fun to experiment with.
I read your post about the games you used to play and the lack of well known players/guilds here. I came from those type of games as well. (Ever play Grand Fantasia?) At least in what I played, the biggest reasons some people were well known was 1.) small population and 2.) world chat. It would be pretty nice if people and guilds who did well were better recognized though. Hopefully they could get better leader boards, including a focus on guilds and wvw.
Long post aside, hope you enjoy GW2. It’s quite different compared to most MMOs, but that’s definately not always a bad thing.
Yup, that’s what I am doing now. I have already ignore the “level” in GW2. It is pointless, and that’s the main reason I have started this post. However, I don’t like the idea of achievement. I mean, what are achievements? It does not make the character stronger. It’s kind-of like a cosmetic thing. I remember the first time seeing achievement system is on an iOS game, since then, every games have this useless system. I never like achievements. AP hunters please do not get me wrong here. I do not like the system, not AP hunters. I am impressed that you guys being so dedicated.
Nope, I did not play Grant Fantasia before. I google searched it and it looks great. I think I will like it.
1) Agree. This is the first MMO I play that has soooo many worlds.
2) Agree. Why no world chat?? I love world chat. Without world chat I feel like playing a single player game with multiplayer option enabled (Yes, it’s not the same as MMO).
The leaderboard definitely needs to be touched. I like WvW and PvP leaderboards. I never look at AP leaderboard, although I don’t mind it being there. Guilds leaderboard is NEEDED, now. WvW rank/kill leaderboard is a MUST too. I hope Anet can award top ranked players (even though I will never be one) too, probably by giving some special effects when they are in the open world. Players who do not look at the leaderboard have no way to know a player is a top ranked player. Some cosmetic effects like a big floating crown on top players head (so everyone can notice) will be so cooool.
I enjoy GW2. I am just pointing out something I am not used to.
Vertical=grinding out levels you access gear that will allow you to do content previously inaccessible.
Horizontal=levels up and getting best gear real fast allowing you to access all the content now and grinding for cosmetics and perks like magic find, permanent contract and other fancy convenience items that aren’t required to enjoy the content.
i don’t think thats what vertical and horizontal really means
vertical is like climbing a ladder, you have to climb the ladder to become more powerful. higher level is more powerful; high level character, high level skills (mastery), high level gears (exotic/ascended), gaining additional skill points after level 80
horizontal is like on a journey to discover things. combinations of different skills to create different results, skill points from map explorations. ability to dodge and utilize your skills to win, crafting because you need to get the materials.
Whichever explanation, I prefer the vertical one. Horizontal explained by SkyShroud will definitely make the game much enjoyable. I don’t really like the game with horizontal explained by Julie Yann. It sounds like a single player game. Combination of both vertical+horizontal explained by SkyShroud sounds like the perfect game of me.
the new mastery thing in HOT, is both a horizontal and vertical thingy
Wow, I am all hyped up for HoT. *throw money at the screen
Compared to GW1 leveling is already painfully slow in GW2. Getting all professions to lvl 80 and fully equiped is really tedious. Making it even slower would be a real disservice to Anets faithful fans.
With that being said I understand where the OP is coming from, I get what he seeks in a MMORPG and why he is disappointed about not finding it in GW2. If you come here not knowing anything about GW1 and 2, expecting the game to follow the same rules as most other MMORPGs do, than you are in for a nasty surprise.
This however doesn’t mean GW2 has to change. Not at all. If you don’t like the way leveling in GW2 works than GW2 is simply not the MMORPG for you. Go and play another one, there are plenty out there that give you what you want.
Yup, I don’t know anything about GW1, a little bit about 2. Nope, no nasty surprise here. It’s more like a “cultural shock”. Nope, if I don’t like it, I will leave it and wouldn’t even find my way here to the forum. I am just expressing my comments about the leveling speed.
out of curiousity what games did you play that had such a painful experience?
Mainly Korean/Japanese/Chinese MMORPGs that you have never heard of. The only old MMORPG that I played and you probably know is Maple Story, but I did not spend too much time in it.
And no, it wasn’t painful. I love those games. There are OP players and dominating guilds that control the economy, dungeons and etc.. I actually like it, but I know modern players do not. Modern players look for fairness. Mostly, I am not one of the OP players, but I still enjoy the game. I have two choices in those games. Join the “govern” side or the “resistant” side. I can join the dominating guilds and be the “bad guys”. Or I can fight against OP players by joining many small and normal players, or forming alliances with weaker guilds to fight dominating guilds and stuffs like that. These are mechanisms that are not natively in the game, but created by players. I LOVE it. The world channel is never so quiet like GW2. Players are constantly shouting at their enemies, and it is fun to watch. There are big news in game consistently, such as “xx guild has fallen, they are no longer controlling yy dungeon”, “the top player, aa player, lost in a pk fight with bb player just now”, and etc.. They are exciting. Players with high level or nice gear are always surrounded by new players. I have not seen in GW2, EVER.
Do you watch One Piece? I like characters that are very OP like the marine admirals, shichibukai, or yonko. I don’t mind not being one of them, but they are very fun to watch. “One of the yonko has just declared a war with another yonko. What will happen? Will marine admirals intervene? What is the fate of normal people?” These are exciting even I am not part of the fight. I will look at the world channel (which does not even exist in GW2, seriously???) all day to find out what happened. In GW2, I don’t even know what the top guild is (hopefully guild hall in HoT will change this), nor who the top player is. I just play and meet different players everyday. If they are good, I will say, “Oh, they are playing very well.”, and that’s it, I forget about them. There isn’t thing like, “OMG, I met aa player in yy map!!!!” or “OMG!!!!! xx guild is fighting with yy guild”, screenshot and post it in the forum. Everyone in GW2 play on the same ground, no special guy, no special guilds, nothing. Just boring.
That being said, I know those old school days are long dead. I study/work now so I won’t be spending so much time in an MMORPG. GW2 is not perfect, but good, and I like it.
(edited by Katalos.5038)
Compared to GW1 leveling is already painfully slow in GW2. Getting all professions to lvl 80 and fully equiped is really tedious. Making it even slower would be a real disservice to Anets faithful fans.
With that being said I understand where the OP is coming from, I get what he seeks in a MMORPG and why he is disappointed about not finding it in GW2. If you come here not knowing anything about GW1 and 2, expecting the game to follow the same rules as most other MMORPGs do, than you are in for a nasty surprise.
This however doesn’t mean GW2 has to change. Not at all. If you don’t like the way leveling in GW2 works than GW2 is simply not the MMORPG for you. Go and play another one, there are plenty out there that give you what you want.
Yup, I don’t know anything about GW1, a little bit about 2. Nope, no nasty surprise here. It’s more like a “cultural shock”. Nope, if I don’t like it, I will leave it and wouldn’t even find my way here to the forum. I am just expressing my comments about the leveling speed.
i was the poster in tha tlink provided lol
i would seriously stop playing if there was that much grind
might i suggest wildstar? they talked it up to being the mmo for veteran hardcore mmo players.
its very well polished and quite fun, tho it doesnt have the playerbase it used to. i also love its artstyle/controls and housing. but my accoutn was hacked awhile back and i dont really ahve time to spend 15 bucks a month on it anyways. so i never recovered it.
i hear it might be going the way of f2p in the near future, that it might come to steam. id be curious to see how pay to win it becomes or pay2customize wich would kill it for me because that game was all about customizing.
Oh hi, “different type of player”, lol. I guess I am the one different here.
Erm, I am not into hardcore MMO. That’s not what I meant. What I meant is I like slow leveling, but you can do stuffs when you are at low level.
For example, in order to progress above level 10, you need to gear up, unless you are very skillful and pro. To gear up, there is a dungeon unlock at level 10-ish where you can grind for gears. At level 15, same thing happens, but this time, a level 15 dungeon unlock and a new system unlock, I don’t know, something like jumping puzzle maybe? As you progress, there are stuffs for you to do. For competitive gameplay, it is still fun since everyone’s level is not very high because it’s hard, except some hardcore players. This is what I meant by “low level gameplay”.
In GW2, the leveling is very fast. I won’t stop at level 50 to grind for a level 50 gear because I will soon hit level 80 and trash that hardly earned level 50 gear. Therefore, I will proceed with the leveling until I hit level 80 and then I will start doing stuffs. In this case, the leveling seems pointless. It is more like a tutorial. There are no low gameplay at all, except leveling.
Furthermore, level scaling in low level maps, sPVP map, and WvW causes leveling has low impact on our gameplay. What I am saying is “level” in GW2 is virtually useless. It’s easy to get and it will be scale down or up appropriately. Then, why not remove “leveling” in this game? Since “level” has so minimal impact in GW2, skill is almost everything, which makes GW2 like CS, Dota, LOL and etc., which is the type of games I don’t like. I don’t like game that can be picked up by anyone and play. I like games like MMORPG where you need to spend some time building your character and explore stuffs. Again, like I said, leveling is more like a tutorial in GW2. “level” is not necessary in GW2.
(edited by Katalos.5038)
I take it you wouldn’t like Guild Wars: Factions, where even doing it casually, you hit the level cap in about 5-8 hours. Of course, you’re then only ~10% through the Factions storyline.
It seems like you want a vertical progression game, not the (mostly) horizontal progression that the Guild Wars series is.
Vertical? Horizontal?
and I know it isn’t this way now, and I think it might be a mistake on Anets part, but when the game first came out, for a long time, people WERE doing dungeons of the appropriate level. that “80+ only” junk has only developed once people got to that level and made their legendaries and junk and now they feel like they’re superior and don’t want to waste time with the likes of a *gasp/ newww playerrr
That makes new players like me very sad. I can’t even find players to run dungeon at my level with me through LFG. I only ran AC twice, once with some very helpful players, who kept telling me I am doing great while I kept dying, and once with my guild mates.
24 here.
I was expecting the players in GW2 to be slightly older, maybe around 30-40. Many of you surprised me because I don’t know any adults (people who are muchhh older than me, so, yea, it’s relative to me) play games, especially MMOs. Probably that’s not common in my culture.
Or…. you guys are actually trolling?
Guild Hall is coming out in HoT, I am hyped about this.
hi there~
welcome to gw2!
gw2 is a more casual game targeting wide range of audiences unlike all the mmorpg you have played before which target the niche market
of course, the main difference between gw2 and those mmorpg you have played, only the players with perseverance and commitment will reach the late game and thus effectively filter out the casual players, leaving the semi-hardcore and hardcore players.
however, like i said, gw2 is targetting wide range of audiences instead of niche market. but, dont be mistaken, not all current games are like that. generally speaking, many new games are now moving towards sandbox and classless system. there are still many new mmorpgs that follow the grinding way of doing things. there also new mmorpg that trying to relive the hardcore gen mmorpg, where you get to loot from players, i miss that gen, those games were fun.
Aha, shake hand. Someone who misses the hardcore MMORPGs (corrected myself from using “old gen” after reading at your explanation). I thought all new gen MMORPGs is like this after playing Tera and GW2.
No? What does the game give you from 1-79? Just skills and traits. I’d love to have those instantly. It’s just filler levels.
That’s the problem. 1-79 seems like unnecessary when the leveling is this quick. In other MMOs, the leveling is much slower and harder. Thus, grinding low level gears in low level dungeons is necessary. In GW2, low level dungeons is more like one of the high level dungeons because everyone is looking for level 80 in LFG.
When you have no low level contents, why is the leveling existing anyway?
OP should have a chat with this guy:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/how-do-you-deal-with-the-grind/Different strokes for different folks, I guess?
lol. Different players exist huh. Just to clarify again, I am not complaining, only discussing.
80 hours and level 60? Most would consider that slow as I got my guardian to 80 in under a week with tomes crafting and wvw.
Please keep in mind this is gw2 not Tera or wow. At 80 not a single thing in the game truly changes, you would still do the exact same thing for map completion. Then farm end game zones or do world bosses
Actually, it’s more like ~100 hours and a level 60. That’s because I spent ~20 hours with a Norn warrior and realized it is a norm to have multiple characters in this game. I don’t usually do that and I have only one name for my MMORPG’s character. So, I needed a new naming convention for all my characters. I came out with the naming convention. The Norn warrior character’s name is violating my characters’ naming convention so I deleted it and restarted a new character, which is my ele now.
lvl too fast people complains…. level too hard and too slow also people complains…. i wonder how people measure the word “too”….
erm… Are you a Malaysian or a Singaporean by any chance? Please do not get offended. The english you used sounds like Singlish.
(edited by Katalos.5038)
I have played many MMORPGs in my life and stopped for a few years to focus in my studies. Now, I am almost done with my grad school and don’t feel like boosting my GPA anymore, so I have started to play MMORPG again.
The first “new gen” MMORPG I came across was Tera. I like the combat and graphics, but I don’t know why I just don’t like the atmosphere of the world. So, I quit after three months. My character almost hit the level cap at that time. The leveling was quite fast for me.
I am using a Macbook Pro, for educational purposes, and building a gaming desktop while I am constantly moving from apartment to apartment in not practical. So, I searched for the best MMORPG in Mac. There, I found GW2. I did some research and decided to give it a try (my first pay to play MMORPG).
GW2 leveling is wayyyyyy too fast for me. I have only spent ~80 hours on my first character, which is an Elementalist, he is now level 60. Considering I like to play games very slowly (talking to useless NPC, chatting on the map channel, standing at a nice place looking at things for minutes, enjoying the world, and etc.) and I have not used any tomb of knowledge, this is incredibly fast for me.
Combining the experience I had in Tera, it makes me wonder a question, “have all the “new gen” MMORPGs became like this?”. By “this”, I mean “level” is no longer valuable in a game. It can be gained so easily and all players own a few characters that have reached the level cap. Low level gameplay is no longer important. Since level 80 is so easily achieved, grinding for gears lower than level 80 seems pointless because those hardly earned gears will be trashed in a few days, if not hours. Lastly, the saying of “the game begins when you reach level 80”. If that’s the case, the level 1-80 acts just like a tutorial for the end game contents. Tera has much funner low level gameplay compared to GW2.
“Last gen” MMORPGs I used to played take months, if not years, to reach the level cap and level was very valuable. Only a handful of players in the server actually reach the level cap. Low level gameplay is fun and “end game contents” can be accessed by not-so-low-level players. Players generally do not own many characters and even they do, the sub characters only act as a bank or something. Therefore, choosing a class to main is a much more intense process.
ps. I am not complaining about GW2, I love it. I am just wondering why has leveling became so easy and why “game begins when you reach the level cap” became a mainstream thing for “new gen” MMORPGs.
tl;dr: I think leveling in GW2 is way too easy, what do you guys think?
(edited by Katalos.5038)
Single digit is weird, I am playing on my laptop with only Radeon HD 6750M. I have ~10 FPS when there are too many players, ~20 FPS when I am in a normal size zerg.
ps. I am using medium-low setting.
I know elementalists cannot swap weapons for fairness. However, we, elementalists, switch weapon sets outside combat very often for swiftness, cosmetic, and etc..
Can Anet allows elementalists to swap weapon sets (with one key) just like other professions, but only restricted to non-combat situations? Once we are in combat, we no longer can swap weapon. This is still fair and the only advantage we get is we no longer need to bring up the inventory/hero tab to switch weapon outside combat.