Guild Wars 2

In a mesmer vs. mesmer face off, it seems to me the phantasm spec would have a much better chance of winning.

I’m interested to hear what ya’ll have to say about this. Strategies you’ve used vs. other mesmers, thoughts on the superiority of one or the other build in a dueling setting.

GO!

Quite sad this thread is getting derailed

So I headed to the mists today naked, steady greatsword in tow, without traits, to see if I could figure out how the Illusionary Berserker works. Well I am more confused than when I started, I think, but I will share what I found.

I tested on a single Heavy Target Golem first. I found the damage dealt is definitely positional. The hits on the “away trip” are almost always more than the hits on the “return” trip of the berserker. The damage of a single hit on the away trip is about 150, and on the return trip about 300. This doesn’t make sense, but I thought, well maybe the various hits are not always the same damage, so with that in mind, it started to make more sense. I was getting mostly ~600 damage on the away trip and mostly ~300 on the return, so I came to the conclusion that the first two hits were 150 each, with the third and fourth hit being 300 each. In my testing I got one trip that appeared to do 4 hits. Here is the data I collected on 16 passes of the berserker:

Away Trip (a.k.a hits when phantasm starts attack in melee range)
Number of hits, approximate damage
1, 150
3, 600
3, 600
3, 600
2, 300
3, 600
3, 600
3, 600
2, 300
2, 300
4, 900
3, 600
3, 600
3, 600
3, 600
3, 600

Return trip (a.k.a hits when phantasm starts attack in at about 600 range)
1, 300
0, 0
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
0, 0
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300
1, 300

So despite my target being a stationary golem, some of the return trips didn’t even connect! Something definitely wrong here. It is a shame I do not have a pre-patch dataset, but from my analysis of older videos makes me belief that it used to hit 4 times almost all the time on the “away” trip.

Where it all breaks down is in a multiple target situation, unfortunately. I tested this in the “aoe” target golem area of the mists and had widely varying results, with 3 hits causing 450 damage which was unexpected, and also hits occurring on the initial target when the berserker was hitting the targets last in line (some sort of additive damage or compounding of hits). I can’t explain any of that data and it was difficult to collect and I got tired. So if someone wants to do some tests on the multiple heavy golem target situation, I would greatly appreciate it!

Alternatively, I would love if Jon could chime in and tell us how the skill is supposed to work in terms of damage output?

Also, this testing is quite difficult as phantasm damage is not recorded in the combat log

Phew. Hopefully someone finds this helpful and will help me build on it to crack the nut that is the berserker!

XiL.4318:

Phantasms take a second or two before they will perform their skills and there is a panic response.

Necro Minion AI has been broken since beta, several minion skills result in a long delay before casting (often resulting in the minion’s death prior to execution), AND our temporary minions die of massive self bleed stacks before even reaching the target if they somehow manage to aquire it…

And nothing but chirping crickets and player ranting about it on the Necro forums for months. Even signs that Arena Net is internally unaware of any issue whatsoever.

If I was to identify a problem, that needs to be corrected, it would be the one that results in immediate, reassuring, and ‘actionable’ attention to one class while others are completely ignored for long periods of time.

Minions are not weapon skills present on all of of your weapon choices. We are forced to use phantasms, and our weapon dps is balanced around them. Bugged utilities, while significant, are NOT as significant as bugged weapon skills.

Jon,

I wanted to post here again to follow up on my post above given the reasoning you listed in the other thread for the 1 second (apparently 0.5 second intended) delay being in since BWE2 for balance reasons.

There are multiple reasons, elaborated throughout both of these threads, that this delay is not good balance and unnecessarily weakens phantasms.

1. Since the changes in the November patch, enemies already have a chance to “avoid the powerful summon” by dodging/blocking/blinding/interrupting the phantasm cast.

2. Secondary phantasm utility effects such as the Berserker cripple or the Warden projectile absorb need to be responsive in order for them to be functional in the fast-pased, reaction-based combat system. Compare to Warrior’s Hamstring or Throw Axe (1/4 sec cast), Thief Dancing Dagger (1/4 sec cast), Elementalist Unsteady Ground or Frozen Ground (1/4 sec cast). Now Berserker already has a 3/4 sec cast time just to get the phantasm out – a long time for a cripple compared to other classes – but if we have to wait another 1/4, 1/2, or even 1 full second for the cripple to land?? That is certainly not balanced. As long as it has any delay it will not feel responsive and satisfying in PvP or PvE

3. A delay between the spawning of the phantasm and the attack dis-proportionally affects melee phantasms as elaborated in my previous post. This is even more true if the Berserker attack functions as a Warrior’s Whirlwind where the number of hits decreases as the target runs away.

4. The delay in attacking creates absurd situations of PvE mobs turning around and one-shotting the phantasm before it even appears. This is easy to test on Cheiftan in the mists with the Berserker.

So in summary I think your damage issues and delay issues may be linked, and strongly recommend that phantasms initiate their first attack as soon as possible after summoning. If a zero second delay is impossible, then the smallest non-zero delay programmable should be used (0.05 seconds? 0.1 seconds?). I think even the proposed 0.25 seconds is too long given the importance of phantasms secondary utility effects and location based damage. Almost every other class has access to a quick-cast cripple/chill ability for soft CC (we can discuss Illusionary Leap’s flaws another day in another thread…)

JonPeters.5630:

Now if only I could figure out the berserker dmg thing… Worst case scenario I will just try and readjust the numbers based on the new functionality but that is harder because I don’t have the old data. For what it is worth it was not the bladetrail change that messed with this because we locally reverted that and this berserker issue still persisted.

In terms of old data, some of the best pre-November sources of reference for damage on the berserker are these videos:

Berserker discussion at 37:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZ0NNd7b60&t=34m16s

Lots of good actual footage of greatsword use. In this vid it is attacking nearly instantly (he’s using phantasmal fury) and connecting with all 4 hits almost 100% of the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJLJipvBTBE

Is the warrior ability whirlwind having any issues since the patch? According to Mr. Prometheus the abilities almost exactly the same. One thing to consider, that if it functions like the warrior’s whirlwind, which according to the wiki “Whirlwind Attack will hit 1-4 times depending on the distance between the user and the enemy. Starting in melee range usually results in 4 hits, while reaching the target at the end of the attack results in 1.” This functionality makes the delay issue absolutely crucial, because on a moving target, the longer the delay, the further out of melee range the phantasm gets, almost assuring less hits. For this phantasm and the Illusionary Warden, the delay issue is much more critical because movement of the target hugely affects the skill. For these two phantasms sake, the delay should be as short as possible.

A minimal delay also addresses some of the other arguments above regarding the “two chances to miss” phenomenon since making these skill subject to block/blind etc. As the duration of the delay approaches zero, this issue becomes less and less important due to the odds that your opponent is going to re-blind or re-aegis or whatever in that fraction of a second unlikely.

So please squeeze that delay down as much as possible! Many of us have grown used to nearly instantaneous phantasm attacks due to the “exploit” of the phantasm boon traits. If I were to trade, I would much rather have the boon traits broken and my instant attacking phantasms back.

Hey I watched the state of the game video that GW2 Guru did with Jonathan Sharp and really enjoyed it. In the video much discussion was focused on how to help new players enjoy the game and learn how to play. I think a huge thing that would help with this is the ability to see other player’s hero panels (including traits and utility selections) in the Mists.

1. This allows new players to inspect those around them or even the “pro” players to see their builds, trait choices, etc. to give them a starting point for making their own builds.

2. It would allow for new players to learn other classes without having to actually play them by being able to read ability and trait tooltips for their friends or others in their party.

3. Fears about “gear score” or abuse of this mechanic are not relevant in sPvP seeing as all the gear is freely available and you can change your build at any time.

4. Some people may want to keep their build “secret” and you could address this by either having an option to disable incoming inspect inquiries OR just swapping to a different character when in the Mists waiting for queues (OR just clearing your traits and unequiping weapons / amulets when you hit the mists).

5. It would create a lot more opportunity for in game discussion about trait selection, gear, etc. which for now seems limited to forums or voice chat. I think it would build a healthier community atmosphere in the Mists.

The Mists should be a place where people can learn more about how to play sPvP, and I think having an inspect feature that functions only there would be extremely helpful toward that goal, appreciated by casual and hardcore players alike

With custom arenas you could easily set up all the duels you wanted. I am sure the player limit will be adjustable so you could make a 1v1 server.

Also, not that difficult to find an empty server now to do some 1v1 on. Someone comes to bother you, just move to a different server or ask them politely to leave – no big deal

Hey all,

I posted this on the mesmer forums without any response, wondering if anybody here could provide some opinions, at is only loosely related to mesmering.

I have been running a typical 20/20/0/0/30 build for tPvP and was wondering if anybody could help with some maths or if they have done any testing could help me with some rune choices.

For a long time I ran Berserker’s Amulet/Jewel and 6/6 Divinity Runes. Lots of damage but too squishy. Penalty for dying much more with new res timers in tPvP, so I was looking for options. I started carrying a few different amulets for different situations in my bag:

Berserker’s Amulet / Soldier’s Jewel – running this most of the time
Soldier’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel – using this when thief on opposing team so I don’t get instagibbed
Knight’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel – when opposing team is condition heavy

This has thus far been working out very well and I feel like I gain a good amount of survivability when I use the other amulets. With my rune set I am looking to maximize damage output.

So my crit chance is variable with my amulet/jewel choice from 17% to 41% to 44% (without any rune influence). I typically run with 5% crit sigil on offhand pistol (running GS / s+p).

So what is the best rune choice?
Divinity vs. Ogres vs. Scholar (don’t like this one b/c less effective after losing 10% health) vs. Eagle vs. Air vs. Infiltration????

Problem with divinity is the reliance on crit damage, which is probably less useful the lower my crit chance gets, so I don’t know if it is worth running when I’m using Soldier’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel.

Let me know what ya’ll think

Hey all,

I have been running a typical 20/20/0/0/30 build for tPvP and was wondering if anybody could help with some maths or if they have done any testing could help me with some rune choices.

For a long time I ran Berserker’s Amulet/Jewel and 6/6 Divinity Runes. Lots of damage but too squishy. Penalty for dying much more with new res timers in tPvP, so I was looking for options. I started carrying a few different amulets for different situations in my bag:

Berserker’s Amulet / Soldier’s Jewel – running this most of the time
Soldier’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel – using this when thief on opposing team so I don’t get instagibbed
Knight’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel – when opposing team is condition heavy

This has thus far been working out very well and I feel like I gain a good amount of survivability when I use the other amulets. With my rune set I am looking to maximize damage output.

So my crit chance is variable with my amulet/jewel choice from 17% to 41% to 44% (without any rune influence). I typically run with 5% crit sigil on offhand pistol (running GS / s+p).

So what is the best rune choice?

Divinity vs. Ogres vs. Scholar (don’t like this one b/c less effective after losing 10% health) vs. Eagle vs. Air vs. Infiltration????

Problem with divinity is the reliance on crit damage, which is probably less useful the lower my crit chance gets, so I don’t know if it is worth running when I’m using Soldier’s Amulet / Berserker’s Jewel.

Let me know what ya’ll think

I like this idea a lot

vutak.3186:

Y’know, I totally didn’t click on that, but Dazzling should be in the list up top, what with Diversion being probably the best source of Daze for most (non-asura) mesmers… I’ll add it right after his.

While we’re on the subject, though, I could imagine that despite Illusionary Persona being the popular girl in school right now, Imbued Diversion has some potential with on-interrupt traits, particularly in WvW. 4 seconds of Fury on interrupt may not seem like much, but if you got it x5 for shattering into a pack of enemies… too bad it’s a 30-point trait! It’s also a shame that Halting Strike does such little damage… and that most of the on-interrupt traits are pretty weak no matter how you slice them, now that I think about it.

And that you can’t get Imbued Diversion, Dazzling, and Furious Interruption all together

I don’t think toughness has been nerfed at least not that I can detect, but I do seem to see more people running condition based teams. Conditions are not mitigated by toughness, so vitality is better if you’re facing a heavy condition team. The better your healing and condi removal the more powerful toughness is in comparison to vitality. I would suggest carrying around a bunch of amulets with various gems in them and swapping them out until you find a nice balance between damage and survivability. Its hard to theorycraft the best mix and quite dependent on the rest of your spec and the opposing team.

Another problem for sPvP necros is that if you’re going for a condition based spec yourself, there is not good offensive amulet that will give you cond dmg, power and toughness, so you may be taking more of a damage hit than classes with different damage set ups that may take better advantage of defensive amulets. My impression is that Rabid is not a very good amulet for many classes – I dunno someone prove me wrong.

It would be cool to turn this thread into one where we discuss skill paths that do a lot of damage for the various classes! Here’s one for a mesmer using GS/S+P:

1. phantasmal berserker
2. mirror blade
3. dodge roll toward target to create clone with deceptive evasion
4. mind wrack
5. illusionary wave
6. weapon swap
7. magic bullet
8. phantasmal duelist
9. illusionary leap
10. dodge roll for clone + swap
11. blurred frenzy +cry of frustration

Krag.6210:

The vulnerability on shatter trait is very good.
Also, before Time Warp, use your F3 with 3 clones + yourself, instant 24 vulnerabilities!

If you switch Illusionary Persona for Imbued Diversion, you can apply 18 vulnerabilities on mutltiple targets.

Good thread so far guys, thanks.

Regarding this trait – am I missing something? I thought it only applied 1 stack of vulnerability per illusion shattered (thats what the wiki says: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rending_Shatter). How on earth do you get 24 vulnerabilities? Does diversion stack more than the other shatters?

Just sayin’ – it happens. Things are not as dire as they seem. Also, not that hard to find a group if you’re willing to download the various voice chats and ask around. Too much QQ on this forum

You can create pickup groups that do well in pvp if you have the motivation to find groups using voice chat. Develop a friends list, join some random groups, ask in map chat, join multiple guilds.

In this format, communication is essential. Download every voice chat thingy you can get. I currently have about 14+ ventrilo servers on my roster that I have used with various pugs.

You don’t have to be bffs to group with someone and stomp some face in some tourneys – you just have to be persistent. The better player you are, the better groups you will get invited to. Figure out your class in hotjoin, then look for organized groups using voice chat for tourneys.

In the fluke that you to get to map 2 or even 3 with a total random team, talk to some of these peeps, see if they are interested in grouping or minimally tell them “hey add me to your friends list, I’m always looking for groups!”

Can someone explain how these work in free tPvP and paid tPvP? I could not figure it out in the few games I played today

From patch notes:
“Free and paid tournaments will now use individual respawn timers. Public games played via the PvP Browser will still use time-based wave spawning.”

Grimnar.6128:

Solo/Duo, and Team queue normal mode 5v5 games
Solo/Duo, and team queue ranked mode 5v5 games
-you must finish a game to get your glory, if you win you double it(there you go, incentive to play to win and finish)
Glory is earned through playing games just like it is now and can be spent on cosmetic rewards. For $money$ which you need, players may purchase glory for gems from the cash shop to then spend on cosmetic rewards(think LoL skins)

Custom Arenas can address all of these concerns. Sponsors for custom arenas can set rules and have moderators enforce things like only pugs, only teams, their own ladders, rankings systems, rewards (though unlikely to be in-game rewards… not out of the question as gold/gems/dyes are trade-able).

I think a lot of people in this thread are acting like spoiled children on Christmas opening a gift and stamping their feet stating “but it’s not what I wanted!!!”

Look – custom arenas put the control over the future of the sPvP community in the community’s hands. Servers could create their own ranking systems, ladders, etc. They could create map rotations that do not include Raid on the Capricorn (zomg!). They could customize the server cap to create that random 5v5 atmosphere that other thread says is absolutely necessary for the survival of the game (melodrama much). The birth of esports (or any sport for that matter) has to come from organizations that will gather teams, create match-ups or opportunities for match-ups, and administer rewards (even if it is only street cred or the satisfaction of a job well done – I don’t play in an indoor soccer league every Tuesday because I am going to get some prize at the end – I play to hang out with my mates and have some fun kicking a ball around).

The best thing ArenaNet could do to quickly address the ranking/ladder system is release Custom Arenas, as they are planning. Undoubtedly, if they created their own ranking system and league there would be a whole bunch of people complaining about its flaws. Instead, they have released the creative control to us, the players. What thanks do we give them? A bunch of whiny posts on the forums about how we don’t like our Christmas present.