Guild Wars 2

Forum topics like this are for theorycrafting of course, so I ‘vote’ for an overhaul.

But in reality I would settle for all important bug fixes and some quality of life improvements on kits and turrets and such…

You should really check out the topic about the ‘TANK CAT’ build.
It’s not using the flamethrower, but it will give you a ton of fun options if you go with tool kit.

Even just as something to give you ideas on combo’s, it seems right up you ally.

After using pistol-tool kit combo, you could swap to flamethrower and hit #5 for another blind, and than just knock them back.

if fighting mobs: dodge (backwards) after knockback and you’ll be in the perfect spot to use flamethrower #2 explosion on them.
In theory you are in the perfect spot without the dodge, but they immediately move in on you again (if melee mob) so your dodge negates that distance they make.

Use prybar, than immediately swap to pistol and use pistol #3 (same button).

You now have 7 stacks of confusion on your target instead of 3…

or the other way around of course, pistol #3 as they move in for blind and confusion, than tool kit for prybar and block if needed.

Pannonica.5378:

Shake it up, shake it down, shake your booty all around.
Asura have one weakness after all…

we have the benefit of being too tiny to see what we’re doing.
With elixir S we seem to have the weakness of being too tiny for a change.

Anyhow: it can’t be intended and is terribly annoying by the way.
I almost hate elixir S just because of this

Neat trick if you use the flamethrower:

1. you can swap to any kit when stunned, always.

2. you can use Flamethrower #5 the blind, when stunned.

So if no stunbreaker: swap to flamethrower and hit #5: at least they will miss their next attack even if they stunned you.

If you use runes that work on healing skill (like chill, aoe burn, aoe regen, etc…):
use med kit when stunned. It’s a kit as well… so can be used when stunned and it procs it effect
Sigils on weapon swap: work as well on kit swaps now… and you’re in combat after all.

Once you get kit refinement this becomes real fun.
Stunned?
Med kit for some effect, elixir gun for regen field, tool kit for crippling nails, grenades, a bomb, an aoe burn and than flamethrower #5 blind…
Heck, stuns never last long enough to do it all

Anymras.5729:

I think it’s mentioned in the Hints page when you first do it. About as informative as a brick to the foot.

I would notice a brick to the foot, I never really noticed any usefull hints…

It’s good they have a very accessible wiki (even type /wiki something in game chat and it will pop you to your browser on the correct page.
Something else they never explain by the way…
But the tooltips themselves in this game need work.

And combo’s should be part of the tutorial, or at least an option they offer.
‘Would you like to come test the combo fields?’
Just as a side quest at level 2 or something.

I appreciate this thread, and tried to put in my own ideas.

But let’s face it: they don’t lack ideas.
They lack the will, if anything. For whatever reason they have, be it time limits or resources, or a different view on balnce than we experience.

I want top hats with goggles, and a few coats with clocks and pressure meters visable.
And a shield that is a folded out mechanic constuction, or some wheel. Tool Kit you say? Yes, I reply… but permanent.

Thank you very much.

- med kit: when running, if you put down something, you use it immediatley. You run through it and use it, no need to stop or anything. Just keep going and put them down and you’ll use all.

- grenades: best aoe BUT bit weak without the grandmaster grenadier trait.
Still wort it though for questing and such.
Grenades work in melee range, a LOT better than mines.
You can chill AND blind the opponents in melee, which will make them hit a lot less hard.
Grenades in melee is like using bomb kit, just with more button presses

- have you tried bombs yet? Pretty easy to use in melee range with several mobs on you.

- rifle: GREAT control weapon, lots of damage up close.
No other advice than : use it, get used to it.
Try out pistol and shield too, or 2 pistols… but give each version enough time to learn.
Rifle has the best control with net shot on such a low cooldown, and the jump can be used to escape as well.

- try tool kit with the rifle.
You suddenly are playing a whole new game.
Not sure when it becomes available though.
Tool kit gives you a lot of defensive options too, so great for survivability.

- aside the toolkit, I personally love the flamethrower for control while questing.

- if you use rifle, tool kit or flamethrower maybe, bombs or even grenades to some extend: get mostly power as offensive stat. Precision after that. Get condition as it comes,don’t go looking for it (it’s more a thing for pistols).

- healing power isn’t great, toughness and vitality are what you need for defensive stats.

- Gadgets? They are for fun.
Try out the mines, the rocket boots (but that’s a bit like rifle #4 but with an extra stunbreaker), the slick shoes for a great escape… etc.
No rules, just find what you think is the most fun.

If you use a flamethrower, always try to put down a napalm field even when shooting at range with your pistol for example, or even your elixir gun (#1 is also a projectile finisher)…

Adding a burn is always good extra damage, even if the burn is small.
And others can shoot through it as well.

@ Anymras, on the turrets:

I would keep the detonate on demand, I wouldn’t keep the ‘pick up’.
Why: pick up still triggers a cooldown almost as long as detonating does…

Detonate at least gives a blast finisher, and in my version a free untraited knock back as well.

Pick up just gives a slightly lower cooldown without any other benefit at all.

If ‘pick up’ would mean I can put it down somewhere else the next second… THAN I would find it usefull.

Throw wrench is a projectile finisher.

Napalm is a fire field.

Combo of: Fire field with projectile finisher = add a burn to the projectile.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combos

Anymras.5729:

Yeah, I responded in this one before I read the other one. To summarize other post: I like it (some of the turret overcharges would be amusing with gadgets attached), but I’d still rather be able to independently move toolbelt things around.

Also, I missed the part where this had something to do with the idea of Hammers and Heavy Armor for Engineers. Think you might have gotten confused on which thread was which or something.

I started replying to things being said here, especially the part about ‘creating a trait for more armor’ and one thing lead to another.
You’re right: I went of topic too far by now.

Anymras.5729:

I’d rather just move the gadgets to the toolbelt entirely, if that’s the idea, perhaps with a chain effect (resetting upon cooldown completion) to continue activating both (or all four, in the case of Throw Mine) effects or something. Some gadgets are actually okayish, and it’d be neat to be able to use them alongside some of my other stuff (definitely help deal with turret cooldown), but I don’t like kits in the least.

I think they’re overemphasized, honestly. That’s why I’m asking for ideas to improve the underemphasized Unique Mechanic of the Engineer, the Toolbelt, as opposed to That One Category of Utility Skills that Seemingly Everyone Loves and Wants to Improve.

You touch upon a very simple, and very strong solution:

make all tool belt skills seperate.

1. Create a list of all current tool belt skills that every ability has.
2. Add most, if not all gadget main effects to that list.
3. Balance them out amongst each other
4. Create categories like: elixir tool belts, turret tool belts… etc.
Just make sure every category has most gadget effects in one form or another.
5. let us pick whatever we want, out of each category fitting the skill itself (turret, kit or elixir).

small note: how to detonate turrets than?
Simple: ‘press F’ and forget the whole ‘pick up’ system.
Just detonate, and let each detonate do a knockback without traiting.

We can be anything, except being versatile.
Sad sad irony of how the devs describe us…

All the good builds we have (those listed above mostly), they all are weaker than the builds of other professions that serve the same purpose.

I haven’t found that imfamous versatile build yet, that warrants the devs to put a penalty on our damage.
The only builds for engineers that work, are all single purpose builds.

while we are on the subject of elixir S:

any other Asura get this annoying glitching when using it?
It’s as if my movement is too small for the game to handle well.

For that defensive side:

1. you can swap to kits when stunned

2. you can use the Flamethrower #5 blind when stunned

So if a thief for example, hits you: even stunned: hit flamethrower, hit #5.
You not only get the 200 toughness, but you blinded him as well, even without using a stunbreaker yet.

Offensive side:
Juggernaut plus might from using elixirs can result in pretty good might stacking, especially if you add runes to that.

Also: Flamethrower #1 hits FAST.
Sigils without a long cooldown (steal health on 2 sec, etc) are golden with it.
More might if you want that…

200 toughness doesn’t make you a bunker, but it helps.

As I answered in the other topic: the same could be done for turrets.
Work gadget effects into the turret tool belts and overcharge effects.
They can use with some improvement after all…

Basic idea: to be versatile we should not be forced to spend an entire slot just for one gadget!
Every usefull gadget effect should be worked into kits and turrets.
just like elixirs already provide stunbreakers for example. If elixirs have stunbreakers, than why is there not a single turret or kit with a stunbreaker?

Gadgets are great, but we don’t have room for them. not if we are paying a price in damage because we are supposed to be ‘versatile’.

Turrets themselves could have such effects.

Currently turrets overcharge abilities are weak and slow.
And several of the tool belts are weak as well, or have totally silly cooldowns.

So some gadget effects could be used in both kit effects as in turret effects.
After all: we currently have stunbreaker in BOTH elixirs as in gadgets, we already can equip 3 stunbreakers if we want.
No one does, so no one will use a kit AND a turret with the same effect either…

And look at it this way: you might hate kits, but do you hate gadgets too?
By equipping a ‘gadget’ for the tool belt, you simply get a kit added to it that you may or may not use a lot. You don’t have to…

Just like many toolbelts now aren’t worth using as much as the main skill (several elixirs, kits, gadgets… suffer from this problem).

I focused my suggestion on kits, but turrets could be part of that just the same.
it’s not like turrets are that good at the moment.
They could do with having usefull effects here and there.

For example: EVERY turret should knock back if detonated, you shouldn’t have to trait for that… especially not in a trait line that has ZERO other effects for turrets!

Just the same we could add stunbreakers, vulnerability stacking, knock back oil, etc… to the turrets tool belts and overcharge abilities.

I do NOT ask for damage abilities, I simply ask for VERSATILITY in our design.
The way to do that is to merge more of what we have acces to.
Working in gadgets into kits and turrets, is one way I see open to achieve that.

Gadgets take up a full slot, and that’s too much in a ‘versatile’ profession!

Currently we have to create builds using: kits, elixirs, turrets and gadgets.
This is simply too much, we can’t fit it all in.

So how would I improve tool belt?

By making the most usefull gadget effects into the actual tool belt of a kit!

Rocket boots for Flamethrower, sick shoes for Elixir gun, add goggles effect to Big ole Bomb… whatever, just add the stunbreakers, excapes, boosts… to the kits as tool belt.
Just be carefull to leave the usefull kit tool belts that provide utility now (like Big Old Bomb).

Result: we get the effect of gadgets while actually using a full sized kit.
Leaving at least one category out of the 3 slots we have: no more gadgets as seperate slot. Just kits that have them as tool belt, elixirs and turrets.

copying what I said about this in another topic, it overlaps but might explain it better:

2 principles used:
– kits provide the utility we are supposed to have
– gadgets are the skills we all want, but hardly ever have room for.

For example: imagine having Rocket Boots as tool belt of the Flamethrower.
You always have Rocket Boots handy, but you get to use Flamethrower as well if you want.

Slick Shoes for Elixir Gun, Goggles effect added to Big Old Bomb or whatever…
Just using Elixir gun would immediately give you slick shoes (random example); leaving you open with 2 slots to use for other kits, turrets, elixirs…

Basic idea is this: the kits all get a truely usefull gadget added as tool belt skill.
These tool belts are focused on utility first, not damage as such.

The tool belt is usable with whtever weapon or kit you have equipped, so it doesn’t take kit swapping to reach them.

But at the same time you don’t lose a slot on a gadget alone, you always get a full kit with it.

By adding things like stunbreakers and escapes to kit tool belts, we create truely versatile builds. Without sacrificing slots we can use for elixirs, turrets or more kits…

Anymras.5729:

I like the idea of the armor boost trait, I think. I don’t like the idea of it being part of Juggernaut, though, as I’m of the opinion that kits are overemphasized in just about every way for being just another Utility skill type – our Toolbelt skills are our unique ability, they should get some work done on them to bring them up to par with every other class’s unique abilities.

One way to do this by using kits anyhow, is to work the best gadgets into the kits toolbelt abilities.

2 principles used:
- kits provide the utility we are supposed to have
- gadgets are the skills we all want, but hardly ever have room for.

For example: imagine having Rocket Boots as tool belt of the Flamethrower.
You always have Rocket Boots handy, but you get to use Flamethrower as well if you want.

Slick Shoes for Elixir Gun, Goggles effect added to Big Old Bomb or whatever…
Just using Elixir gun would immediately give you slick shoes (random example); leaving you open with 2 slots to use for other kits, turrets, elixirs…

Basic idea is this: the kits all get a truely usefull gadget added as tool belt skill.
These tool belts are focused on utility first, not damage as such.

The tool belt is usable with whtever weapon or kit you have equipped, so it doesn’t take kit swapping to reach them.

But at the same time you don’t lose a slot on a gadget alone, you always get a full kit with it.

By adding things like stunbreakers and escapes to kit tool belts, we create truely versatile builds. Without sacrificing slots we can use for elixirs, turrets or more kits…

A simpler solution would be to implement most gadgets into kit skills.

This allows us to keep the current system without totally redesigning the engineer UI and all that.

Kits could do with stunbreakers and better escape options.
Bombs and grenades could do with some variety in mechanics anyhow.

Making several toolbelt skills into a mixture of it’s current effect, combined with a very good gadget mechanic, could result in pretty strong and versatile kits.
Other normal kit skills could be redesigned towards gadgets as well.

Slick shoes, rocket boots, goggles… they all could fit in a kit without much hastle.
By focusing on the tool belt skills, we avoid adding too much damage as such. Even with the kit not equipped, those tool belt skills would always give superb utility without being pure damage.

Sparky Sights.9174:

Heavy armor wouldn’t be a good idea because then all the rangers would whine about it constantly, instead I think adding a trait to boost our armor by a certain percentage to make our armor nearer to heavy armor stats, but not as high, somewhere in the middle of medium and heavy armor would be best I think.

Juggernaut should work on ALL kits, simple as that.
We are supposed to be ‘versatile’ aren’t we…

I like many gadgets such as the mine, the rocket boots, the goggles even though they are a tad boring in ‘animation’, etc.
But I never find room for them in my builds, as you say.

Maybe they should just be merged into kits…
Make Rocket boots the tool belt of Flamethrower, add knockback to one of the grenade skills, add stunbreaker to several kits.

the gadgets don’t fit a ‘versatile’ profession, they seem designed to give a very single-purpose build at least one side utility.

I like them as such, but they don’t fit well taking up a spot that could be an entire kit.
We pay the price of not having high damage, we shouldn’t pay another price for not having room for utility…

NaturalPortman.9562:

I find every elixir other than elixir S kind okittenward to use. Especially the one that breaks stun and gives you endurance. Almost feels like you drink it and nothing happens.
Not to mention the quickness elixir doesnt synergize with anything we have. Quickness is awkward on engi and just doesn’t work imo.

Not going to argue that elixirs are perfect.
Two reasons made me say they are in a better state than kits, gadgets and turrets:
- the elixir traits are actually pretty good in effect, and many people find them mandatory in their build.
- elixirs appear in almost every build I’ve seen, while turrets almost never do, gadgets only sometimes.

Elixirs are bloody random, and I totally agree their effects don’t merge all that well.
They do need improvement.

Penguin.5197:

FiftyTwoBears.5482:

As a human though, I run with the Hounds for racials while PvEing. It’s quite useful to distract Elite mobs while grabbing a Skill Point or whatnot.

In PvP though I would definitely say Supply Crate at all times.

Supply crates does that too. I use it to bypass champ karka all the time

Yup, the turrets from the crate draw aggro on just about anything, including npc’s in WvW camps and all of that…
Fair enough that those turrets die fast, but the mobs usually target the ones damaging them first, so your important ones like healing and net turet last the longest every time

grenades beat mortar in every way, except a knockback and a heal.
But than you can’t use the knockback or the heal where you most need it: at minimum range!

Another, more simple route would be to give several improved features to both kits and turrets.

For starters: elixirs are too random, but other than that elixirs and elixir traits seem fine enough.

Turret traits are ok (if they work…) but turrets themselves are too weak.
The overcharge functions of turrets are way too slow. Increase the speed on those, and lower the cooldowns. Like the condition removal from healing turret is not something you can depend upon, while it should be!
Very important: add a stunbreaker to at least one turret.

Kits:
also add a stunbreaker to at least one kit. For example to EG #4, FT #5, TK # 4, even Bomb #5 is a good option. At least 1 or 2 of these should be added.

Gadgets: give them more synergy with our other skills and kits, or at least with each other.
Kit refinement trait for example, should give an effect on using a turret or a gadget too. If we are to be versatile, we can’t have all our traits just effecting one set of skills!

In short: give the gadgets, kits and turrets more utility so we don’t need to spend slots on elixirs to get certain effects.
Merge traits, and let traits cover more than ONLY elixirs, or ONLY kits, or ONLY turrets etc…

Mind you: I never ask for more damage, I can live with ‘versatility’.
But than I demand REAL versatility!

For me:

1. bug fixes, this alone will make a big difference

2. merging more traits so we have acces to versatile builds instead of the current ‘single purpose’ builds.

3. add more utility to kits, like stunbreaker effects to current kit skills, more condition removal outside of elixir use.

4. increase pistol range and damage to be on par with rifle without spending 2 or 3 traits first.

5. make Mortar stronger in every way, maybe add a function to break doors and walls.

Not going to happen though, if we’ll see any improvement for Mortars, it will be the fact they finally make the trait work for it.
If we’re REALLY lucky, they’ll make every turret trait work for it (mortar is listed as a turret).

Beyond these 2 basic fixes, I don’t expect them to ever look at it again…

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yes, this is only a snapshot, but to me it is a telling one. I took a level 33 Engineer into Queensdale to get events for dailies today. The character was in Strong L32 Greens, with a Strong Rifle. Traits are 10/5/8/0/0. Did an event versus level 11 bandits, and I was down-leveled to 11. Rifle was taking 7-8 auto-attacks to kill a bandit. It consistently took 13-15 uses of grenade 1 to take down a bandit. Maybe its better at higher levels, maybe it isn’t. However, the reduction is nasty at lower levels.

the sad thing with grenades is that they seem to be balanced around having the Grandmaster Trait (30 in explosives) Grenadier.
Without that trait grenades aren’t worth equipping to be honest, except for practice on the targeting…

The result of this is that:
1. grenades are too weak by themselves
2. you need to spend 30 points in Explosives to have our only real ranged option, which limits any possibility of a ‘versatile’ build.

I have never seen a build using grenades without the grenadier trait, not ever.
We are not versatile as engineers, we are forced into mandatory traits for every kit, for using elixirs in a strong way, for even using our pistol we need 30 points in Firearms…

Or better: actually give us the versatility that seems to warrant this low damage penalty.
We don’t have it now… or traits only support single purpose builds, never a true versatile build.

So if we pay the price for it, I would really like to have the actual versatility now, if you dev’s don’t mind…

Max Castle.6173:

No Walking.6349:

So a groups of 5 engies can steamroll through keeps? Pop a mesmer Time warp on top of that? No thanks…..WvW is broken enough as is

those 5engys could just build a ram or cata to the same effect. Just looking for some variety here.. And when is the last time you saw 5 engys in wvw… I rarely see any others when I run mine.

Engineers could get a supply or building speed advantage, or better: be able to repair sieges.

Danger of the poisoned gift though: this would almost force engineers to become the designated trebbers and glue them to the balista’s and mortars during any siege.

Simple solution: make the elite skill Mortar actually good, and let it be a real siege weapon that can make a difference…
Mortars should get a min range option ‘battering ram’ that hits doors at least.

I agree that he medium armor in this game isn’t really designed with engineers in mind, for the larger part.
But heavy armor is that even less…

Do we need heavy armor in terms of stats?
Not sure about that, I think our issues lie elsewhere.

As for hammers: please be aware that if you equip a hammer, your ranged options now are:
- avoidable grenade kit
- tickling elixir gun
- missing mid range flamethrower, which isn’t even worthy of the term ‘ranged’

That’s it, no other ranged than that if using a hammer.
I personally would stick with pistol or rifle, and use the fun Tool Kit instead.
But if you all would like hammers, there’s no reason why I should be against the option.

Bombs have the big advantage they don’t need a target, and they hit every mob in range just as hard.

Add a blind and confusion to that, and an immobilize if you need to run, or a knockback, and you have yourself an easy enough mechanic to fight brainless mobs.

Leveling is indeed ALL about fighting brainless mobs, so I fully agree bombs are pretty good for that.

Once you can trait further in either explosives, or perhaps finally the grandmaster trait to make bombs heal, than you’re really set to go.
But even before that, bombs seem to be one of the most forgiving damage kits we have for leveling.

Lite.3819:

After experimenting with every possible situation and weighting every skill, this is the best I can come up with. I’m quite proud of this build, it’s pretty close to jack of all trades. I use this build for PvE, PvP, and WvW. The only change is the Berserker amulet to Knight amulet when I switch to PvP.

It’s based on the idea that you make almost no mistakes.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/engineer#14|0|1207|253|4700|4603|4065|30|1422|1789|1885|20|1866|1433|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|20|1883|2270|0|0|0|0|28047|0|49962|49962|49962|49962|49962|25790|21080|0|0|0|0|

Very close to what I use myself.
More or less based on the few things that work: Tool Kit, EG’s #5 and grenades for carpet bombing mindless zergs or mindless targets…

Elixir gun mostly for condition remaval, doubled with kit refinement, some healing and an escape.
If I happen to target a single hardhitting enemy, the weakness comes in handy.

Grenades because it’s our only real ranged option…

Tool kit for defense and more melee fun.

I use a pistol and shield myself, and didn’t go 20 in Firearms, instead I went 10 in Alchemy and full 30 in Tools.
Your damage will be better, and the riffle is good cc.

My defense will be slightly better, but in essence it’s the same.

Builds like these are the closest I can find to being ‘versatile’ but frankly: they are a mess and lack in more ways than one…

As Casia explained: engineers lack the traits to create versatile builds that are truely valuable.

Wasdclick.1764:

Pannonica.5378:

TK’s Magnet also most of the time only makes Dolyaks (WvWvW supply Dolyaks) ‘stumble’ a bit, i.e. not pulling them at all.

That’s probably intentional since it’s a long walk between bases, and yanking dolyaks around would probably slow things down by a huge amount.

weird reasoning.
I only pull dolyaks to kill them, not to ‘slow things down’.

Sabyne.6329:

Sungak Alkandenes.1369:

If you have Carpel Tunnel or some other hand/wrist RSI issues, for now you may want to steer clear of the class. What the grenade/bombs folks here aren’t saying is that those kits do not have an autoattack option for #1, requiring many repetitive keypresses to take down enemies.

Grenade doesn’t but bomb kit do have an autoattack, one of the reasons I prefer to use it. ^^

bombs have an auto-attack that stops the moment you get out of melee range, not even out of the bomb range itself…

Bombs are best used while kiting around, making use of their 1/2 second arming time.
By design, they are not best used standing totally still.
Yet the auto-attack stops once you move an inch.

It’s better than having no auto-attack of course, but I wouldn’t say the bomb auto is optimal…

Any other Asura having glitching issues when using elixir S?

It’s almost like I get soooo tiny the game can’t handle me moving anymore.
Terribly annoying: I can barely swap to a kit when trying to move, let alone do smart things like stomping or rezzing and such.

By the time the glitching gets better, the duration of the elixir is all about over too

Grenades swap out by themselves, and med kit never swaps back even if you mash the button (not in pve or WvW)…

Great work, and not a priority to fix at all it seems.

runeblade.7514:

I feel that the range is decent enough. I never had an issue about range. Just being in grenade range is enough to be in a mortar range. Although I don’t really mind if they buff the range.

I feel that Shell velocity is good, it is a mortar not a cannon. Most dungeon Mobs don’t really move around all that much to care about accuracy.

if the range is that of traited grenades, and you’re using Grenadier grenades anyhow… than why the heck would you ever use the mortar?

Simply use your grenades and drop a supply crate on their heads!
You’ll be waaaay more dangerous to them using grenades.

mortar has 100 shorter range (trait doesn’t work…), it has LESS damage (try it on a dummy), it is very slow, it is stationary and gets destroyed like nothing.
It even has a minimum range restriction, you can not hit anything getting near you. Not even the knockback or the heal wha would make perfect sense.

Grenades are better, always.

mortar has a slooooow knockback, I’ll give it that.
And it has a weak heal.
Both on a long cooldown.
These 2 features alone does NOT make mortar worth using over grenades as grenadier!

Untraited grenades I can understand.
But using mortar over grenades when grenade specced with the Grenadier grandmaster trait? Never…

Nope… but you’re the only engineer who doesn’t know it’s announced already

(no exact date yet, we all think the februari patch)

LukeTheQuke.4079:

Made engineer at launch, leveled him to 80, 260 hours played on that character later I made an alt warrior, leveled warrior to 80, placed engineer in LA, it now works as a lowly slave to my warrior.

On a more serious note. Will you have fun leveling this class? Yes. Will you have fun in end-game with this class? For a limited time, yes. Will you be on par with other professions? No. Will you make an alt and forget your engineer? Yes.

I believe I retraited once every day for about a month in search for one single build that I found viable, made sense, was fluent, was flexible, supportive, high dps, anything! Did I find anything? No. Almost actually, a few times but they always had a very annoying flaw that I couldn’t live with. I never felt complete as an engineer. On warrior I can roll whatever kitten I want and I feel like a complete, working, thought out profession.

That’s all I had to bring to this discussion..

I’m at the phase of creating a new build daily, just to find one that has at least the features I find fun.

If I want ranged damage, I’m almost forced to use grenade kit AND trait Grenadier. I hate that…
Other simular choices feel too forced as well, it’s just one example.
Rolling without a single elixir?
A stunbreaker on a terribly long cooldown, or use a gadget wich again ruins any elixir traits.
Simply use 3 kits and have a ton of skills that ammount to getting nothing done properly?

I’m trying out all sorts of builds, but there is one thing I can not find: VERSATILITY!!!

There is no valid versatile engineer build.
There are only specified engineer builds, and even those are sub-par compared to the equivalent of another profession.

Where is my stunbreaker on a kit?
Why are there so few traits buffing ALL kits?
Why are elixirs so bloody random with long cooldowns?
Why do pistols need 2 traits to barely reach 1050 yards and pierce? Why does the rifle only have 1 skill that actually has max range?
Why is my flamethrower so close range but misses at minimum range?
Why does the elixir gun hit so weak? It’s nothing but a healing elixir that removes conditions most of the time: swap in, swap out…
Nag nag…
But mostly this:

Where the hell is this so called versatility that is sooo good we have to pay a price for it?

next stage: try out a different prof just for laughs, just to see… maybe a guardian and see what the word ‘support’ actually means.
Not rerolling of course, just making a new character to compare a bit… sure.

And what’s the deal with map completion on deletable alts, as well as the jumping puzzle being the BEST ways to gather badges???

This alone is beyond my comprehension.
How can a feature like the World versus World strategic large scale battle, have the best rewards in useless npc’s like the Grub, jumping puzzles and map completion on alts?

What on earth were you thinking here devs?

as usual, any support build is not rewarded for the trouble.
If you don’t go full out damage, you’ll see almost no badges drop at all, even in bigger fights.

That’s for support builds, support roles in WvW are even worse.
Sieging up towers don’t give anything, nore does upgrading them, or guarding them…
Guarding dollies doesn’t even give karma even though it’s an ’even’t in theory, let alone that you get badges for it.

Pure damage builds, and preferably in the biggest zerg you can find…
Just like the spvp glory, this whole system is so outdated and simplistic, it’s a shame for an MMO as innovative as GW2!
Harsh, but it really is a shame for this game.

Nastypiggy, when the devs mentioned we deserve a damage penalty for being so versatile, I’m quite sure they ment IN combat.

Swapping skills and traits ouside of combat is something every profession can do.
And what’s more: it implies you know exactly what’s coming and what will be needed.

Your own examples prove that we need 3 kits, several turrets and at least 2 elites to be versatile…

While I’m saying that we should have the traits and skills that allow us to be just as versatile with things we can actually equip at once!

I agree that your examples ARE versatile, but they are not versatile IN combat.

Versatility means being able to respond to many different situations you do NOT know in advance!

As you have shown: if an engineer builds like that, he either misses certain kits, or misses the traits to make those kits any good, or he misses certain protections and buffs from elixirs, or he misses things like turrets…

You simply can not make a single versatile build that can stand up to another profession on an equal playing level.

I wish we could.
I love my engineer, and I play it for the versatility.
Because of that I realise no versatile engineer build is a finished build. They always lack in so many places the total becomes weak.

I run 3 or 4 kits most of the time, sometimes using 1 stunbreaker with it.
My build is ALWAYS Jack of all trades, master of none.
But in every build I create, there is always so much of the traits that I actually need, that I can’t reach.

Every succesfull engineer build so far is focused on a more specified task like damage or bunker, or ranged aoe, or condition, melee tank, or healing bot, or booner…

Not a single succesfull engineer build is truely versatile.

This is the same for most professions, but they don’t get the crap about paying a price for being versatile and being good in medium range, wherever that is…

Videshi.5371:

Because I was only level 20-odd at the time, new to the game, and just watched this dude smoke two of my friends. I decided fleeing was the way to go at the time.

Anyway, my argument was: I found this very entertaining, which is really why I play Guild Wars 2, in the end.

Also: my main’s a warrior now that I have experience in the game, so I won’t argue your point about engineers, it’s quite valid.

Of course I couldn’t know why you actually ran, could have been a lot of reasons.
Mostly I pointed at the fact that as engineer, that’s often the right thing to do…

You’re right about the fun factor.
Kiting someone from one end of the map to another IS fun.

Engineers certainly have that fun factor, and it’s that what is hinted at with the term ‘versatility’.
Being that Jack of all trades (master of none…) as well as being unpredictable.

It’s why I love the profession so much.

But that is also why I ask the devs to drastically BUFF our so called versatile builds!
In the end there is no succesfull versatile engineer build to be found.
I keep saying it over and over: the only good engineer builds are the least versatile…

Videshi.5371:

I would argue that engineers can be harder to play, but not necessarily. Some rearranging of hot-keys can solve that, as can a mouse with 2 extra buttons.

… and as people are saying, engineers can be a blast to play. Consider this situation I had a while ago in PvP:

A warrior is coming after me. I was playing a largely grenade/bomb based engineer with dual pistols. I drop a goo shot to slow him down, he keeps coming. I know I have to run, so I flip to grenades and hit him with an ice grenade, slowing him again. Dang, he’s determined, and keeps coming after me. Switch to bombs. drop smoke bomb and sticky bomb. Keep running iwth the knowledge that my goo shot is almost back up again.

Hee hee hee!

We are great escape artists, that’s true.
Again, as with everything: other professions have builds that are BETTER escape artists.

That’s one issue with your story, the other is this:

What if you would have turned around and fought him, with your bombs, grenades and dual pistol?

You ran, and you could have kept running.

And than you’re even in a dps focused build with grenades and bombs and dual pistol.
You are using all out damage and control skills!

Your build isn’t even versatile I assume, it’s dps.

Imagine what a truely versatile engineer build could do in that situation?
Even less than you…
That’s how ‘versatile’ engineers are by design.

You were using dps skills all over, and you ran…

Sporadicus.1028:

As for the post about a ranger signet having a +50% endurance on weapon swap: We have an elixir that breaks stuns AND gives 100% endurance back.

Giving up a skill slot as engineer hurts our so called ’versatility!
That elixir R eats up a full kit for example.

You are comparing the cooldown of elixir R to that of a weapon swap?
Of course the effect should be stronger… waaaay stronger!