Guild Wars 2

DarcShriek.5829:

Adry.7512:

CMM.6712:

Adry.7512:

CMM.6712:

Adry.7512:

DarcShriek.5829:

Adry.7512:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

CMM.6712:

Adry.7512:

What I find funny is that some people think that a AAA game such as this that focuses and exploration and diversity wouldn’t add a new race. Yes guys I’m sorry but eventually they will. This game has finally found its format for creating and delivering content. The only thing they are missing is a deep focus on lore and storytelling. The addition of a new race allows developers to focus on lore expansion and story development. I’m sure that most developers in Anet have realized that what the game lacks now is lore and depth. Not only that but we will be going to new continents with different races, and you think they won’t include them into the game??? This isn’t like gw1 that you only played one race. This game needs this. It will happen. No matter what you guys think. Eventually it will come.

Since you are a developer for Anet, with the red logo right over there <———-

we can just go ahead and use this as a source then, right? New continents too, meaning

NOT Cantha and Elona? You heard it here first folks, breaking news!!!!

Ikr!

Telling us soooo confidently that Yes, this will happen. The game needs this. Eventually it will come.

In reality he’s just one more anonymous poster on the forum and he doesn’t have any more insight into whether or not anything will happen than any other person who comes on the forum and gives their opinion.

Foolish remark. New continent to the current map. So yea Cantha and so on. It’s an analytical statement. To me it makes the most sense. If you can’t wrap your head around it, then that sounds like a personal problem.

It only makes sense to your biases. Also, it’s pretty sad when you accuse people of having problems simply because they don’t agree with you. It’s time to come down off your judgmental high white horse.

What is sad? It’s what makes sense to me? Your assumptions are funny. Judgmental high white horse??? Are you sure you’re using the term appropriately? You seem to not get it at all. I dont care about “judging” anyone. What is said is an analytical statement and what makes the most sense??? When did you interpret that as a reality? sigh it seems the judgmental one is you.

Really… what I’ve seen is you making a post and telling people how things are gonna be whether they like it or not, nothing we can do to change it or stop it. So you are being put on notice that this isn’t your game, and you don’t get to make these decisions. Feel free to discuss though!

Its a high probability. When i make those posts its towards people who are adamant on a definite “NO”. Which is wrong. I am speaking in terms of probability. Hell they were even considering it in their first Xpac, which was rather small and heavily rushed. Therefore, you honestly believe that it WONT happen at all for a future PLANNED Xpac? Yea right! I’m not saying YES, im saying its highly possible.

I never said “NO” and I never said “won’t” personally, I said I’d rather see new content, which in my mind is maps, story and lore. Of course a new race is possible maybe even probable, but I will say it isn’t likely for a while, maybe until all the elder dragons are defeated.

Anyways, I dont think it will be on this Xpac, maybe on the fourth one….if we’re lucky, the third.

Not exactly “high probability”.

Eh, it depends under what circumstances the new race is implemented on. Few posters actually consider or discuss these circumstances so imagining the true probably may seem impossible.

DarcShriek.5829:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.

Don’t speak for everyone.

For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.

Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.

I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.

And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.

Speaking as a game designer, there is no way I would take the steps you’ve mentioned to shoehorn any feature, new race or otherwise. The reason is that I care about my product. For example, voice over is tricky enough already with professionals. To have a non professional do even the simplest of tasks is just asking for problems. You mentioned using someone with a less demanding job than others to do it. Let me be perfectly clear in game design all tasks are demanding.

Speaking as a consumer there is no way I’d want to play a game that cares so little for it’s product that it would take the steps you recommend. If your looking for cheap, shoddy games to play I think you should try the indie market.

Are you an indie game designer? Being a creator, in most aspects beyond just game design, you should know just as well as I, having more limitations require you to be more creative to work within the confines you’re in. The problem with AAA game designer markets is they try to build bigger and grander ontop of better graphics and open worlds. It’s a trap. You don’t need all the bells and whistles to make something amazing and take the breath away from your audience. Heck, indie games have done more in the past 5 years to change the landscape of gaming than AAA has.

It’s not wrong to want to make something amazing and high quality, but it is wrong to equate high quality with more money and resources. My viewpoint, to make things simpler and manageable, is so that you can enhance other aspects further to emphasize aspect this game does better than others, i.e. the distinctness of its races.

MoarChaos.8320:

And that’s our problem. Why even have a personal story if it’s so hard to do, the only thing we can think of is cutting massive corners that we enjoy with all the other races. It’s almost always the opposite in games. The new race usually has the best story and the most quality of life to their starting missions.

Well, what massive corners are you speaking of? Granted, I do enjoy immensely the beginnings of the PS (before it all converges into one story line) but that’s hardly all that massive.

Also, regarding other games, the difference between their new race and how well its story is tends to hinge on the quality of the races in that game overall. Most games I’ve played, the races are handled on a scale of poor to bland, so introducing a new race that they actually have a better grasp on how it should handle, that race would seem “the best” relatively speaking. So I don’t see why GW2 couldn’t do the same: make a race with a story that’s good or even better. To do that, however, you’d have to revise the delivery system. Stories now don’t have those 2-person cutscenes like the old PS so what would it be replaced with? From that point alone, you can make a new race’s PS better than the original PS.

MoarChaos.8320:

I don’t think the game has any need for a new race, but I agree it should be done right if it is done. Still doesn’t change that the theoretical race isn’t making them any money and it puts a permanent tax on their pipeline.

Well, I could think of a theoretical way to make plenty of cash. It would require a different discussion though. Funny, I’m feeling more in the mood to debate armor in-game today. Must be the weather outside.

Linken.6345:

I wonder how many people would be willing to wait 6-10 months after expansion hit to finish their personal story tho

I only stated that possibility as an example. Personally, I wouldn’t have an issue with a 10-12 month wait because I’ve waited like over 3 years to finally play a Guardian or Necromancer but with the desire to make them Tengu. If a new race beside Tengu were released, I’d probably reroll my Engineer or pick one of the two (Guard or Necro) depending what is released.

But back to my point in it being an example: that was just one method of delivery I could think up off the top of my head that would be very easy and brief to explain. They could do something completely different and make a PS that was mostly text or do it via flashback or something. There are lots of avenues to tell a good story.

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.

Don’t speak for everyone.

For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.

Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.

I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.

And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.

Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…

Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.

Go play devils advocate with someone else.

Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.

And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.

Go play entitled customer somewhere else.

Barely anyone? Got a link for that? No? I didn’t think so.

If anyone is acting entitled here it is you.

Same place you get your generalized statistical proof.

I’m not acting entitled. In fact, I’ve only advocated compromise. Compromise in what efforts could be spent in voice acting, compromise in what efforts can be spent backtracking, compromise in how many areas a new race could introduce, compromise in how armor and outfits can be made, compromise in time and effort spent overall.

I can be a reasonable poster to discuss possible suggestions but you’d actually have to present yourself as reasonable, which you are not. I also don’t want to beat my points to death in a debate so I don’t tend to stick around the forums repeating myself to all arguments.

MoarChaos.8320:

All the arguments for having a new race go into delusional statements like it’s a drop in a bucket compared to an expansion or you’re not a dev, so you don’t know it’ll take that much work at all. But however it’s implemented, it makes them have to make another new set of armor or outfit anytime they make one if the new race isn’t easy like Largos. Plus needing two new voice actors that will stick with the game, and scheduling them, and working with them in the studio.

The new voice actors initial work load is going to be massive as well. Ok. So they’re not just cheaply shoe horned into lvl 80 personal story. They don’t have to do voice acting for that massive segment. Are they also not in lws2? Are they just not an ex commander commander like the player character is right now? How do you see them in lws3? See they can’t do anything with a new race unless it’s in lvl 80 personal story through everything. Which is making the wheel again for no reason.

It mainly depends on how they’re telling the story. If, for example, the newest living story does something like introduce a different organization that has a foothold in the new area and is working toward defeating the elder dragon of the area, or something happens to dismantle the pact completely and leaves the next assault on the dragons to a smaller group of heroes to handle it, ties to the pact can still be there but written differently (different lines) for a new race.

I personally have no ties with the story telling how it currently has been told for every character in the future. I have one character who is leader of the pact and if the devs figure a way to squeeze in other possibilities, I’d applaud them rather than ridicule them for trying something different.

The problem with your argument is you’re working on the defensive. Those that suggest the story must be told with a given perspective and given outcome also remark the issues with voice acting and requiring more work on things like LS2 and 3 but if this race is released around the end of LS5 and the landscape of the story cannot be predicted, how do you figure it’s a requirement that the past LS events be voice acted when it just might be the new race cannot participate in those stories? You can then counter with “well what’s the point of leaving out PS or LS etc etc, all that content lost just makes the new race pointless” while also ignoring what you can do going forward.

As far as the whole armor/outfit issue, I’ve written many posts on the issue with the 5 races alone but no one will ever discuss possible reform for that. People would rather the devs take the path of most resistance and just bullcharge into more efforts that require exorbitant time and resources with mixed results.

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.

Don’t speak for everyone.

For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.

Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.

I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.

And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.

Just someone who has been supporting Anet since beta of GW1…

Proper is what we already have in game as precedent.

Go play devils advocate with someone else.

Not playing devil’s advocate. I want the devs to implement a new race and cut out extra BS that barely anyone wants while doing it.

And bravo Mr. “I’ve been with Anet since GW1” on sabotaging creative freedom.

Go play entitled customer somewhere else.

CMM.6712:

Leo G.4501:

CMM.6712:

Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.

Don’t speak for everyone.

For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.

Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.

I don’t have an issue with there being a new race. I do have an issue with sidesteps and shortcuts and it not being properly implemented. Adding it by Living Story episodes, and it not having the same types of features the other races have… I and “some others” (is that better?) do not think that is the proper way to go about it.

And what would you and others know of proper? You’re not making the content, telling the story or investing the capital to have it made. My point is, if the devs want to seek a different method or outcome, partially because it would be easier, cheaper, faster, make more sense for their choice in delivery or just because they want to do something experimental, who are you to label it as a short cut when ultimately adding a race would still require a massive amount of work? I guess this truly is the age of entitlement where the only time you won’t get called out as lazy is if you take the path of most resistance and still get whined at for not devoting all resources to every individual persons desire. They could try to go above and beyond to add something but if they don’t bend over backwards while also adding some other thing while simultaneously fixing all bugs, they might as well shouldn’t have bothered at all.

CMM.6712:

Your “shoehorn a race” into the game isn’t what people want from a new race. No matter how you state it or how you portray it.

Don’t speak for everyone.

For one, your “shoehorn a race” argument might seem reasonable to some but from my perspective, you’re just being unreasonably picky. For two, you’re specifically picking out the suggestions you don’t agree with while offering nothing to replace it. For three, I don’t even think all the checkpoints you list off are even wanted by the majority and you only want it there to specifically sabotage the implementation of a new race.

Would it be nice to have a “like the original” Personal Story? Sure. How many people actually liked the majority of the PS? Not just the 1st chapter, but going through the orders, making the pact and following Trahern’s lead…How many people like the changes they made to the PS? How many players go out of their way to replay the PS on all their new characters? While I do enjoy the PS on my characters, up to a point, after you go through it once then explore some of the branching options, I don’t tend to go through most of it after that. Even with there being the PS for a new race, it’s still not a big deal (I’m certain it wouldn’t take that long to create…just about 3 Living World updates worth of missions should do it). Regardless of how much effort and time it would take to make a new race’s PS, I’m not dead set that it MUST exist just like it has for every race prior. It can be changed, it can be updated in pieces, it could coincide with living world updates, it could be something completely different. Encouraging Anet to create something polished and unique is good, but suggesting they must follow a stringent formula even if that formula is lined with hiccups and mistakes is not.

Crinn.7864:

Leo G.4501:

dagrdagaz.4913:

Gwaihir.1745:

Races are a launch feature, not an expansion feature.

Not for WoW apparently.

Personally, i’d rather have a new race than Legendary weapons and armour.
And a new race is more fitting for an expansion pack.

And SWtOR.

Considering the armor is likely going to get complained about for buttcapes or something, i’d agree.

SW:TOR’s races have no relation to story or lore. They also all have identical body shapes.

But they have different voice actors. Different diffs for different games.

dagrdagaz.4913:

Gwaihir.1745:

Races are a launch feature, not an expansion feature.

Not for WoW apparently.

Personally, i’d rather have a new race than Legendary weapons and armour.
And a new race is more fitting for an expansion pack.

And SWtOR.

Considering the armor is likely going to get complained about for buttcapes or something, i’d agree.

DarcShriek.5829:

Leo G.4501:

DarcShriek.5829:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you don’t have money for voice talent, use free talent,

This strikes me as the most out of touch, unlikely comment I’ve seen so far.

Just round up 10 people (2 sexes and 5 languages) who are willing to come in and work for all the hours it would take to record the dialog and not see a penny of payment? And round up 10 people not once but every time they need new dialog? Are there no laws against having people put in hours of work for a company for free and they intentionally profit from this unpaid work? Are there no unions that would have an opinion about a company getting around voice actors wages in this matter? I’m betting this isn’t even legal as it had people put in a full time hours for a company while they are not getting paid.

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects. Regardless, I think if there is a great audio master available on the books that can take and alter a voice to make it more easily duplicatable. That is to say, it’s not about rounding up the same individuals to voice future content but just use available imitations that can then be altered to sound close enough to the original (or better!).

I’m not going to lie, I don’t have much knowledge on the realm of voice acting beyond the strike that occurred last year (don’t even know what it was for) but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in all my years of working various jobs is there’s a way to get around people being lazy and cheap. It depends on how lazy and cheap people are being, how dumb the customers/client are/is, how much effort you want to put in and if you’re willing to put in similar effort in the future. Asking for a bigger budget may be suicidal without result and asking for more time could receive similar results without something to show for the request. People may see cutting corners as lazy but if you NEED results to get more time or money, consider any options available. And I’m sure Anet knows players want their cosmetic options and they’re willing to cut corners, so…

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects.

This isn’t what you suggested then. This isn’t free talent. It’s using their own workers and paying for their hours. Of course, while the employees are putting in the hours to do voice acting, all the other projects that they are working on is sitting there not being worked on.If the person is someone who was working on brand new content or QoL feature or anything else people want, (because they can speak one of the 5 languages fluently and also not sound terrible) well, that isn’t getting worked on. The more outside work you put on them the less of their main job will get done. Not a good suggestion.

This insinuates that all workers work the same. Just because you’re part of the same company doesn’t mean your work is equal. Some is more demanding and some is less. If the person who agrees to provide voice work has too much on their plate, look over them to someone who has less. Passion and altruism can also play a role.

I think you’d have to be looking for potential flaws to magnify to make an argument here. Again, I’m not suggesting ONLY free talent, just utilize what work-arounds you can to cut costs. Pay for what you can’t. My suggestion may not be good but it seems better than yours.

So tell me, what jobs at Anet are less demanding than the others?

Give me a list of all the positions of the company and I might be able to make said assumption on a basic title and description of the position. But if you think every position is just as demanding as all others is an even more deluded assumption than men and women being totally equal.

Your posts just keep getting more and more offensive. If the sexes aren’t equal, which one is superior?

The sexes are equal before the law. The sexes are not equal in outcome. People who argue for equality usually are talking about equal outcome which is only possible if you take away freedom. If you’re offended by truth, you have worse problems than equality.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

What I’m seeing in this thread is, anytime anyone points out a problem with adding new races someone else says they can get around it by removing something.

Just my opinion and suggestion: I never said remove PS, just it wouldn’t start at the beginning of the Zhaitan arc and wouldn’t consist of cutscenes as the original PS or even as many instances. Separate established expectations from the goal of the story.

Home city? Never said remove it, just it doesn’t have to be a full blown nation city. It hinges on the story being told. If the race has a story that begins with banishing the player, it could start in an instanced version of a city and then revolve around a different player hub (likely a hub introduced in an expansion).

Leveling area? Why make one when no one wants one?

Voice acting? While I do respect the many famous voice actors that bless our many forms of entertainment with their performances, it is not the end-all be-all bottleneck here. From how I hear Tengu in the game in the past, they have an odd artificial sound to their speech and likely it’s due to altering the voice in some way. Voice alteration is a thing. Not to mention, reading lines off of a script isn’t hard and having a good voice is simply a blessing not limited to professionals.

Cultural armor? Is another topic. Armor in this game is already in a dire situation in need of refining outside of races. But even then, I still think a new race should be offered a racial armor option, it’s just not necessary to make 3 of them.

Largos wings? I never said remove them, I just may limit their cosmetic choices from applying back pieces to their appearance. But this is coming from a poster who doesn’t like all the gaudy back piece items like wings and crap cluttering up players’ avatars. Largos wings should have interesting custom looks and colors.

At the end of the day, you’d have a race done in GW2 fashion = unique, integrated and attractive. It’s not going to be easy and the parts that are going to be difficult, it’s only common sense to look for ways to make them easier.

DarcShriek.5829:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you don’t have money for voice talent, use free talent,

This strikes me as the most out of touch, unlikely comment I’ve seen so far.

Just round up 10 people (2 sexes and 5 languages) who are willing to come in and work for all the hours it would take to record the dialog and not see a penny of payment? And round up 10 people not once but every time they need new dialog? Are there no laws against having people put in hours of work for a company for free and they intentionally profit from this unpaid work? Are there no unions that would have an opinion about a company getting around voice actors wages in this matter? I’m betting this isn’t even legal as it had people put in a full time hours for a company while they are not getting paid.

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects. Regardless, I think if there is a great audio master available on the books that can take and alter a voice to make it more easily duplicatable. That is to say, it’s not about rounding up the same individuals to voice future content but just use available imitations that can then be altered to sound close enough to the original (or better!).

I’m not going to lie, I don’t have much knowledge on the realm of voice acting beyond the strike that occurred last year (don’t even know what it was for) but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in all my years of working various jobs is there’s a way to get around people being lazy and cheap. It depends on how lazy and cheap people are being, how dumb the customers/client are/is, how much effort you want to put in and if you’re willing to put in similar effort in the future. Asking for a bigger budget may be suicidal without result and asking for more time could receive similar results without something to show for the request. People may see cutting corners as lazy but if you NEED results to get more time or money, consider any options available. And I’m sure Anet knows players want their cosmetic options and they’re willing to cut corners, so…

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects.

This isn’t what you suggested then. This isn’t free talent. It’s using their own workers and paying for their hours. Of course, while the employees are putting in the hours to do voice acting, all the other projects that they are working on is sitting there not being worked on.If the person is someone who was working on brand new content or QoL feature or anything else people want, (because they can speak one of the 5 languages fluently and also not sound terrible) well, that isn’t getting worked on. The more outside work you put on them the less of their main job will get done. Not a good suggestion.

This insinuates that all workers work the same. Just because you’re part of the same company doesn’t mean your work is equal. Some is more demanding and some is less. If the person who agrees to provide voice work has too much on their plate, look over them to someone who has less. Passion and altruism can also play a role.

I think you’d have to be looking for potential flaws to magnify to make an argument here. Again, I’m not suggesting ONLY free talent, just utilize what work-arounds you can to cut costs. Pay for what you can’t. My suggestion may not be good but it seems better than yours.

So tell me, what jobs at Anet are less demanding than the others?

Give me a list of all the positions of the company and I might be able to make said assumption on a basic title and description of the position. But if you think every position is just as demanding as all others is an even more deluded assumption than men and women being totally equal.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Leo G.4501:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you don’t have money for voice talent, use free talent,

This strikes me as the most out of touch, unlikely comment I’ve seen so far.

Just round up 10 people (2 sexes and 5 languages) who are willing to come in and work for all the hours it would take to record the dialog and not see a penny of payment? And round up 10 people not once but every time they need new dialog? Are there no laws against having people put in hours of work for a company for free and they intentionally profit from this unpaid work? Are there no unions that would have an opinion about a company getting around voice actors wages in this matter? I’m betting this isn’t even legal as it had people put in a full time hours for a company while they are not getting paid.

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects. Regardless, I think if there is a great audio master available on the books that can take and alter a voice to make it more easily duplicatable. That is to say, it’s not about rounding up the same individuals to voice future content but just use available imitations that can then be altered to sound close enough to the original (or better!).

I’m not going to lie, I don’t have much knowledge on the realm of voice acting beyond the strike that occurred last year (don’t even know what it was for) but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in all my years of working various jobs is there’s a way to get around people being lazy and cheap. It depends on how lazy and cheap people are being, how dumb the customers/client are/is, how much effort you want to put in and if you’re willing to put in similar effort in the future. Asking for a bigger budget may be suicidal without result and asking for more time could receive similar results without something to show for the request. People may see cutting corners as lazy but if you NEED results to get more time or money, consider any options available. And I’m sure Anet knows players want their cosmetic options and they’re willing to cut corners, so…

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects.

This isn’t what you suggested then. This isn’t free talent. It’s using their own workers and paying for their hours. Of course, while the employees are putting in the hours to do voice acting, all the other projects that they are working on is sitting there not being worked on.If the person is someone who was working on brand new content or QoL feature or anything else people want, (because they can speak one of the 5 languages fluently and also not sound terrible) well, that isn’t getting worked on. The more outside work you put on them the less of their main job will get done. Not a good suggestion.

This insinuates that all workers work the same. Just because you’re part of the same company doesn’t mean your work is equal. Some is more demanding and some is less. If the person who agrees to provide voice work has too much on their plate, look over them to someone who has less. Passion and altruism can also play a role.

I think you’d have to be looking for potential flaws to magnify to make an argument here. Again, I’m not suggesting ONLY free talent, just utilize what work-arounds you can to cut costs. Pay for what you can’t. My suggestion may not be good but it seems better than yours.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

If you don’t have money for voice talent, use free talent,

This strikes me as the most out of touch, unlikely comment I’ve seen so far.

Just round up 10 people (2 sexes and 5 languages) who are willing to come in and work for all the hours it would take to record the dialog and not see a penny of payment? And round up 10 people not once but every time they need new dialog? Are there no laws against having people put in hours of work for a company for free and they intentionally profit from this unpaid work? Are there no unions that would have an opinion about a company getting around voice actors wages in this matter? I’m betting this isn’t even legal as it had people put in a full time hours for a company while they are not getting paid.

It depends. I don’t think it’s uncommon for companies truly strapped for cash to use their own workers who are willing to offer their voice to further the group’s projects. Regardless, I think if there is a great audio master available on the books that can take and alter a voice to make it more easily duplicatable. That is to say, it’s not about rounding up the same individuals to voice future content but just use available imitations that can then be altered to sound close enough to the original (or better!).

I’m not going to lie, I don’t have much knowledge on the realm of voice acting beyond the strike that occurred last year (don’t even know what it was for) but if there’s one thing I’ve learned in all my years of working various jobs is there’s a way to get around people being lazy and cheap. It depends on how lazy and cheap people are being, how dumb or anal the customers/client are/is, how much effort you want to put in and if you’re willing to put in similar effort in the future. Asking for a bigger budget may be suicidal without result and asking for more time could receive similar results without something to show for the request. People may see cutting corners as lazy but if you NEED results to get more time or money, consider any options available. And I’m sure Anet knows players want their cosmetic options and they’re willing to cut corners, so…

Forum bug begone

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Second, new race is not the same sort of customization option as new armor. New skins don’t require anything other than the skins and an acquisition method. A new race, for it to be meaningful to a lot of people, includes new stories, new voices, and new skins.

This we know. What we don’t know is how the implementation would ultimately be handled. For instance, you say “includes a new story”, and this is to be expected. But if this addition were to coincide with an expansion to include a new region/new zones, you can roll part of that (the story inclusion + outpost area) that would be part of the new race’s personal story and zones. Of course this would come with sacrifices, i.e. there may be parts only intractable with the new race (think the Sylvari race for HoT but possibly increase more). Yes, there would need to be work to get this accomplished but how much?

You mentioned “new voices” and it is true that you cannot reuse already used voice performances for another use (although it may depend on the fine print of the contract) but it’s hardly a hurtle. If you don’t have money for voice talent, use free talent, otherwise it’s only extra time that’s NOT sacrificed by the artists wholly involved in other resources for graphic assets and story.

Lastly you mentioned “new skins”, and I’d argue that for culture armor/weapons, it’d require less investment than armor for all races simply because it’d only have to fit 1 body/gender. The only alteration I would offer over the norm is to cut the whole “three culture armors per armor weight” and limit it to one per weight which would be perfectly logical is the race began at 80. It’d be even CHEAPER if the race’s cultural armor was also the unique set of the expansion for everyone and the new race’s version would be a rehashed version of itself while the other races got heavily altered versions (basically removing the new race from the equation for that particular set). Thus, you’d only need one skin for every race’s armor weight.

By no means does all of that say it’s easy, cheap or cost effective (that’d be impossible for me to say) but it’s not the horror story many on the forums envision it’d be (like the voice acting…yeah, you know what would lessen that? voice acting less across the board. so long as you sprinkle in just enough to give the character a voice, we can use imagination to implant that in text just fine).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

But let’s say ANet offered the the option of a new race as long as we accepted that there would be no new story, no voices, no home city, no cultural weapons or armor, i.e. nothing other than a visual customization. Assuming people accept that, the startup costs include getting all the existing skins to work with the new race, combat animations for all the skills used by player characters, and, of course, the actual design options (size, skin tone, hair styles, eyes, etc). The ongoing costs would cover the same elements, making every new skill and skin a little more expensive to produce.

Like I mentioned before, Anet added a 9th profession even though it’d increase the ongoing costs of production (balancing, animations/fixes, elite specs, also specific voice acting, profession equipment) all of which would need updating as more is added to each profession moving forward. No addition but extremely limited ones are going to be one-off changes. And no addition should be written off because of the on going changes.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

In other words, even the most simplistic scenario for adding a new race requires far more resources than cancelling a few armor sets.

I draw parallels to new professions for a reason. That reason is because I don’t believe they will ever release another profession. Thus part of the resources they allocated to creating a new profession could be used for a new race instead. Now I’m not one of those players who complained about HoT but I thought it was quite a good expansion and worked to create a great platform for future additions (elite specs, living story, guild halls, etc) If the same level or greater can be expected from the next expansion, what would be in it that would be a step above what we got in HoT?

All I’d have to say is, if they knowingly understand it’d take 9 or so months to produce a set of armor, their goal should be to streamline that process and/or improve the quality of their outcome. Opening up the avenue for new racial options just may be the catalyst to sink resources into producing such outcomes.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

A lot of folks are still ignoring the costs of adding a new race. It’s not free to simply turn existing NPC models into character models, to write new dialogue and new stories for them, to add the voice actors and translations. Even if you nerf the new race from the start by ignoring the personal story and all prior dialogue, even if you could somehow re-use cultural armor & weapons from other races, it would still require a lot of work to set up the new race and maintain it through future updates.

All of that effort could, instead, be applied to new stories that cover the existing races.

Or put another way, the game could offer an Expansion with new zones and new stories. Or it could offer a new race, with a new starting area or two (level 1 or level 80 — the amount of work wouldn’t be much different) and its personal story.

tl;dr it’s not cheap to add a new race

And to this argument, I say: Then don’t waste time and resources on armor most players won’t like much or the majority of players won’t wear and instead apply all that effort to new stories, maps and elite specs.

Either you want customization options or you don’t. A new race is a customization option, it just also happens to have other perks accompanying it.

DeanBB.4268:

And if I create a new character with this new “insta level 80” race, I would miss out on the personal story and all of its rewards. No key for level 10, no crafting materials, dye, salvage kits, etc. Granted, there isn’t a lot of value there short of a major score with a key, but loot is loot and I would take that into consideration when creating a character.

Maybe that’s more important to someone like me with many toons as opposed to a “one and done,” but still a factor.

So far, I haven’t seen any compelling evidence for Anet to go to the trouble of adding a race.

This has to be the weakest argument. And you won’t see evidence. Evidence is proof of something that has happened or discuss and few people want to participate in actual discussion.

Regarding rewards and personal story, no one said a new race would lack a PS, it just wouldn’t be the same as what is in the base game because 1. The race could require an unlock only accessible to level 80 players, 2. Could be lvl 80 itself and 3. Have new, different and unique rewards from other content.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Leo G.4501:

MoarChaos.8320:

How they theoretically would implement it doesn’t matter, though. They already have to go through each race each time they make something new. Whether that’s living world or armor. And say it’s tengu or largos, they both would be clunky beyond belief and need serious work to make them somehow mesh with the backpack skins we have.

The largos are humanoid but the Tengu would need armor that covers their head differently at least. “See only the head,” you say. Only the head for every single piece of armor in the entire game. And it’s not wrapping it differently. New heads for all old skins would need to be made. Then that work is added to the work load of every new skin they have to make. Then a new race ultimately doesn’t add anything for you when you’re just running around so people will want the race they actually wanted.

The same argument could be made for adding professions but they are a 9th anyway. Just because it’s more work doesn’t mean it’s not worth while. Is there game fashion wars 2 of not? If not, let’s stop adding new armor all together and focus on actual content like elite specs and maps.

Adding a New class doesn’t need:

New Voice actors for Different Genders
New Voice actors for Different Language Localization
New Home City/Starter Zone
New Personal Story
Doesn’t need to adjust all Current Armor/Outfits to fit new class
Doesn’t need class references implemented in all related Conversation

And the list goes on, all a new class needs are Skills, Traits and Skill animations, and arguably 1 armor piece per Elite Spec, 2 Weapons per Elite Spec and the 2 sets of Runes.

Professions and races require different things, but they all require work plus increasing work load going forward. That was my point. If adding a profession was going to going to add more work going forward but they added one anyway then it’s moot to argue that adding a new race would add more work going forward.

But you didn’t answer my question: is this no longer considered “fashion wars 2”? Adding another race is partly an expansion of cosmetic and customization. If the cries for more armor with ultimately head gear and shoulders you’ll put on hide, body armor that will be constantly complained about, leggings that will be obscured by foofy buttcapes and more gaudy glowie back pieces is valid, it seems hypocritical to dismiss adding racial options.

MoarChaos.8320:

How they theoretically would implement it doesn’t matter, though. They already have to go through each race each time they make something new. Whether that’s living world or armor. And say it’s tengu or largos, they both would be clunky beyond belief and need serious work to make them somehow mesh with the backpack skins we have.

The largos are humanoid but the Tengu would need armor that covers their head differently at least. “See only the head,” you say. Only the head for every single piece of armor in the entire game. And it’s not wrapping it differently. New heads for all old skins would need to be made. Then that work is added to the work load of every new skin they have to make. Then a new race ultimately doesn’t add anything for you when you’re just running around so people will want the race they actually wanted.

The same argument could be made for adding professions but they are a 9th anyway. Just because it’s more work doesn’t mean it’s not worth while. Is there game fashion wars 2 of not? If not, let’s stop adding new armor all together and focus on actual content like elite specs and maps.

Lucentfir.7430:

I’d be all for a new race, and the only right candidate for a new race would be the Tengu. It’s possible but there’s obviously going to be a bit of sacrifice to bring in a new playable race. IMO how I’d go about making a new race would be:

-Expansion Pack/Paid Unlock.

-Have said new race have it’s own short personal story or quest up until the point of where the expansion took off(To avoid previous LS episodes and having to do all those lines in previous content.) Some might call it a lazy work around but if you think about it it’s going to save a whole lot of resources and and painful backtracking. Unabling the new race in previous LS content works too.

-New content can be played with other races as supplemental assistance to said new race.

-Find a way to make new player race character connect into Dragon’s Watch for future LS episodes.

So really the work that has to be done mainly would be animations, customizability and armors. That’s where the work is. Which looks like a lot a work still and probably is, but it seems a bit doable at least, especially if there were existing assets from launch.

I would still want a new home city for the new race but if you do several things such as start the race at 80 after unlocking it in the expansion, you avoid being to backtrack with the voice acting which eliminates that issue to object with. You also get rid of the need to add a low level zone. Then you only have to worry about current content and text. Going back into old content to alter text for context of the new race would be work but so would going back and fixing typos that still exist; I.e. it won’t be a big deal if mistakes are made nor difficult to fix, just time consuming which can be spread out over a longer period even after the race’s introduction.

The parts, I feel, would be truly difficult would be adjusting the armor for the new race. If we were to get kodan, head and neck differ a lot from Norn and tengu feet, face and tail differ a lot from charr. Adding new voices from current content onward would be difficult as well. The race’s personal story could be executed differently to integrate it with the rest of the content so it may feel differently from the PS of other races which may not be a bad thing. Considering the devs don’t use the old cut scene style but just have characters speak, in open world, this might just be simple than old content.

Beyond that, everything else could easily be mitigated or eliminated as an issue in some way. Issues with armor in general are not issues involving adding new races so solutions for this should be considered independently of these.

vove.2768:

The only thing that might make sword viable is to remove rip and merge impale with savage leap as a 2 step skill (1st click apply torment, 2nd click jump to your enemy), but I don’t know how would that work if you throw your only weapon at enemy :? Also in that scenario sword would need new skill under 4, since it already has blocking I was thinking some utility or defense.

Right now sword is useless in oh.

Mmmmm, what it we do exactly that and make savage leap>impale a 2 step and make a new 4th skill that leaps backward (call it Rolling Blade of something) that moves a good distance and only does damage if the target is affected with impale (basically just add a backward leap to rip but it can be used independently of impale for movement).

DarcShriek.5829:

Adry.7512:

Amaimon.7823:

you seem focused on the armor bit, but thats not the main argument why it’s unlikely:
1) it’d need a home city with a home zone. And thats why tengu is unlikely, there’s no space for both.
2) Personal Story needs to have a unique twist. Luckily, if lorewise the race doesn’t join the pact until after Zhaitan’s death, they can just have their own unique story until lv80 and then ‘join the pact’-right after the assault on Lion’s Arch (they’d still need a good reason why they weren’t in Orr)
3) dialogue, it would several new voice actors
4)

Good points! This is not very difficult and yes it would have to be after whichever dragon we have killed (so far mordy, but it could be after the second Xpac who knows). Therefore their story would be after that Dragon’s death. It could be that they join us in battle for Primordus and therefore we can start the race at lvl50 since they would join us in what would be considered experience warfare. Honestly the possibilities are endless. As for tengu, there is plenty of undiscovered areas that could be used around tengu rejoin.

You have no idea how much complaining your idea will cause. People will rightfully complain about not being able to play the old personal story with their new characters. Vets will complain that they can’t play the new story with their old characters. The story of GW2 was designed for the five current races, any attempt to shoehorn another race in is doomed for failure from a writing perspective.

Sure, we don’t have an idea how much complaining would rise from such an implementation… However, neither do you.

Amaimon.7823:

electricwater.1572:

Liewec.2896:

they’d also have to make a whole ton of new story content up to lv 30.
complete with dialogue.
a starting zone, and if they wanted to make it a real race they’d need to make a main city too to match divinities reach, Black Citadel, Hoelbrak, Grove and Rata Sum.

its a hell of a lot more work than simply rigging/animating a model and making the armours fit.

Not if the new race starts at 80 right away and follows some living story – kind of development instead of the usual leveling in low zones. They give new players lvl 80 boost nowadays anyway, so what’s the difference?

Also if it comes in expansion, then of course they would have to make new zones/creatures/etc, that’s what expansion is for – new content. People act like making ANY new content is a big problem, but that’s what anet is supposed to be doing? Since we are chasing fire/ice/crystal/underwater dragons nowadays, then it’s obvious the new maps will have to fit the theme. Besides, you pretty much have a dragon for each race. Norn – Jormag, Asura – Primordus, Sylvari -Mordremoth, Charr – Kralk and Humans-Zhaitan. And if you need to beat DSD (who still exists, even though he is heavily ignored/kept in secret), then who would you ask for help to defeat him if not some underwater assassin race?

Like the lazy way WoW does (hero classes, which start at lv 65 or 90)

Is this a legit criticism or do you have better ideas on smoothing out such an addition?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This is a summary of what was said in 2013 about new races and new professions

“In 2013 in an interview with Matt Visual, Colin talked about the possibility of adding another race that the player base really wanted. (and we STILL really want them) After that interview, he went back to ANet and they had a discussion on adding another race vs adding another class. They came to the conclusion that adding another race really did not add much to the game while adding another class added a lot to the game. Which is why they stopped looking at adding another race and went full steam into working on the Revenant.

The reasons for adding a new race would be:
1. A new playable race
2. New stories and lore
3. Adding a few racial skills and elites
4. A new city and zone for 1-15 levels that do not affect the core plot with Zhaitan/LS 1 & 2.
5. Appease fans who are asking for it

The reasons against adding a new race:
1. Hiring a new male/female voice actor to be the voice of the main characters (pricy and gotta work their schedules)
2. Building another personal story (takes time)
3. Personalizing to the race, certain interactions with NPCs (racism, curiosity, etc) (often overlooked and takes a lot of time)
4. Adjusting EVERY piece of armor in the entire game(and those yet to come) to fit the new race (This would take months on its own)
5. Slows down production on all future armors, racial interactions, scenes where your playable character has to speak new lines, etc. (for every set, they have to customize 6-18 pieces of armor for 6 different races)
6. Racial skills are generally far weaker than the normal class skills/used rarely (nornbear pre nerf exception)
7. Setting the precedent that with an expansion you get a new race (meaning someday they would be making 6-18 pieces of armor for 7-8 races… ouch on the budget)

Cutting out the portion about new classes but starting out on that tangent: Are we suddenly blind to WHY it is now easier to make new classes and also WHY we won’t be getting anymore (that’s my opinion, but now that there is the superfluous balance between the armor class professions, I just don’t see it’s necessary to ever make another one)?

Professions, traits, weapons and skills were simplified so it’s easier to balance with the variety of mixed combos (changes like no partial trait lines, no dupes trait tier, etc) which made it easier to make a new profession and balance it. It was the limits introduced that helped it along but it’s also why we won’t get more classes. Rather than making new classes, you can simply make more easily balanced and altered elite specialization that can change the base profession as minimally, drastically or cosmetically as you want. Why make an assassin or sniper profession when you can just make an assassin or sniper elite spec for thief? Why make a monk profession when you can just make a monk elite spec for guardian? Why make a dervish profession when you can just make an elite spec for it in revenant? So in doing so, you sort of mitigate the need for more classes while also allowing yourself greater possible additions with much less work! Beyond that, it’s unlikely for new professions because those professions would need elite specs along with other professions so…yeah, we don’t need them.

On the other hand, races. Races are desired but costly and no one seems to look at the reasons WHY it’s costly and consider THAT the issue. Rather than seek to mitigate the addition of races and other customization options, posters just attack those options and races and deem the addition irrelevant while also complaining in the other hand the disdain of outfits and the lack of armor. If you take the route that profession builds took to help add more “classes” (and people may hate on the current trait system or prefer the old. personally I didn’t mind the old way but it had its flaws and the current one is also good and lays out the groundwork for future spec additions) you’d not only make other armor/outfit additions more streamlined but also greatly expand the amount of custom options for everyone.

Further thinking on a spec, would it be better to write-up a spec that encapsulates our ideas to get garner more discussion on the topic? I think the ideas in the thread have merit.

Ulion.5476:

Its easy to see how broken some spec would be when buffed this way. Its like a daredevil but more powerful support and AE skills from dodges. Its would be something like dodge AE electric discharge, dodge fire aura, dodge group buffs and with arcane traits dodges would give double cast abilities. This does not even cover the choose of traits the elite spec would have access too

That’s probably why such an avenue is unlikely, not to mention the amount of combinations of traits that’d have to be balanced for (basically fire/plus another, air/plus another, water/plus another, earth/plus another and previous four/arcane). It’s simply asking too much on top of having extra heal/utility skills and more elite spec traits AND some sort of weapon/ its skills.

Chasind.3128:

Ele’s would still be subpar. Jack of all trades and a master of none (unless you’re a healbot which isn’t as great as it’s made out to think)

An elite where based on the element you currently have up- gives you a 100% bonus for that element whether it be damage or a condition dealt. So if you have water trait, it can freeze nearby enemies (much like the thiefs basilisk venom) And give you and nearby team a medium dealt heal boost. Fire elite causes everyone to recieve 10+ stacks of might and constant burning. Earth is aoe cripple and magnetic shields immediately and Air is a quick stun and aoe blindness with quickness to team. It sounds OP but the tempest elite should have worked something closer to this and not give you an Aura that only works if you’re critically hit (which you’re pretty much dead by the time you recieve the benefits) How about an elite that isn’t conditions met/ do a triple backflip to recieve a small bonus but an elite that is instant cast?

With that concept, I could see a specific [insert one of four attunements] spec that hinges on swapping to and from a specific element. However, making it a “choosable” decision which attunement that focuses on would have to be taken away from the player and given to the spec itself.

Brainstorming of my own, I think for the purpose of this elite spec, making a spec like a “Mirage” that has several methods of self-mitigation at the expense of support, healing and utility could be a possibility. To focus the spec, the mechanic would grant some sort of “Lich form” F5 that grants the self-mitigation and shifts depending on current attunement, however the spec has shortened swap cooldown for Water Attunement but gains specific effects for swapping to other attunements + their F5 effect with the cost of increased swap cooldown to those attunementes (fire, air, earth).

The weapon could be sword main-hand, greatsword, bow, etc and has a stronger focus on DPS while in water attunement with the other attunements focusing on other utilities such as movement and self-mitigation. This creates a rift of support, limiting the strength of support to allies through water attunement (if you organize the traits right) while siphoning off some of the strengths of the other attunements due to limited cooldowns. Other weapons would feel more hybrid-ish to allow for more utility within the attunements while the spec’s special weapon would specialize it to focus on high DPS and limited utility and group support. If the spec had a main-hand vs a two-hand, this could be further customized with off-hand selections. If you shore up weaknesses like self-mitigation through traits, the spec mechanic and weapons, you can leave the utility skills to sort of “shift” the other weapons’ hybrid nature to function within the spec’s perimeters (i.e. offering less support but better self-mitigation and damage). How this would all unfold, I’m unsure as to get a better picture, I’d need to write an outline of such a spec…

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

MidoriMarch.8067:

choovanski.5462:

my goodness. considering warrior was trash level in pvp due to no sustain before this, & now is just functional, you must know nerfing adrenal health will just send warrior back into the trash can???

Just because some class was trash before doesnt mean they should be op now.

adrenal health regens like 7.4k~ ish with 0 healing power. Even druid or ele cannot regen that much unless they stack healing power.

more like landing burst is not that hard either yet giving them 3 stacks of adrenal health on a single burst is just too much.

Thats why anet nerfed druid / ele healing stuff

wow… you think warrior is OP…

it has no presence in competitive play. it’s not even meta

furthermore, all but LB burst are dang easy to dodge.

others have pointed out why your comparison w the healing of AOE support classes is dumb. but dude, if you cant out dps 7k in 15 sec you should really rethink your play & build.

Oh yeah u want to tell me to l2p?

Because i am pretty sure i know u from fergusson’s crossing and u played scrapper so badly and u are zerger not a roamer. I dont want to hear this from a person who cant even flip a camp solo. Seems like now u are playing berserker and u talked about out dps that 7k hp regen u can try it like they are going to stand still and let u out dps them lol

i moved off fergs before HoT came out (& i was playing zerker warrior roaming anyhow). furthermore i don’t even play wvw anymore.
(& really dude not being able to output over 7k in 15sec.. aright dude hahaha, guess i should expect that from guy who thinks flipping camps solo is impressive)

pretty cool story tho. mail me another one when you get kitten again ;-)

Obvious troll is obvious.

choovanski.5462:

Olba.5376:

So… your pipe dream is that Peak Performance would thus give it a 10/20/30% boost on the heal and -4s on the cooldown?

Yeah, dream on. That’s never going to happen. At least not without Peak Performance being moved to some slot that has more competition. Literally everyone with a GS would take Peak Performance, Mending and Bull’s Charge.

currently mending is not worth using over healing sig. a 4sec CD reduction would make mending more viable. heal increase is debatably OP, & could always be offset w a nerf to base healing.

Or simply make it cleanse poison condition before it heals + removes its other conditions.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Charr romance is almost always beastality, no?

You mean bestial (that is lacking ‘intelligence’ or reason; marked by base or inhuman instincts or desires)? That’s how I see it. I’d assume the females enter a receptive phase similar to humans and how they express this may differ a bit from humans (maybe it might have to do with sound, like hormones altering their voice which is then noticeable with Charr acute hearing? also could possibly relate to pheromones which may be more noticeable by Charr if they have a better sense of smell). The difference is, with the context of mating and receptiveness, human males don’t pick up on changes in females as instinctively anymore.

So in that sense, Charr romance and attraction may only start when receptiveness in the females begins and before then, males and females don’t regard gender at all. But if we considering all the possibilities, lust can play a bit role. Do Charr feel lust? If they’re warm blooded mammals, I belive they do.

It’s not really possible to have a spec that loses all attunement except one. Doing so would require revamping or some alteration to every weapon and skill of the profession as well as various traits. Consider what it would take to make a good build with only air attunement and a staff equipped. What would other non air traits that require another attunement do?

Now i do see it’s possible to release a weapon that shifts the norm. Basically a sword or bow that uses strong dps related skills in water attunement, self protection in fire attunement, aoe and condition centric skills in air attunement and movement abilities in earth.

I tend to tell players who complain about being burnt out or for lack of content to go play something else. I’m not trying to be dismissive and I practice what I preach. I play a variety of games and I tend to stop playing when I feel somewhat burnt out or my urge to play a particular game grows stronger. It’s not uncommon for the urge to play multiple games gets very strong and I have to decide what I want to go for. It’s a wonderful feeling to go play something after a little break and enjoying the simplest of aspects such as exploring maps in GW2 (most games I put on the back burner don’t emphasize actual exploration, even if they have mounts in it).

Mmm, can I get one of those Santa Charrs in some Emperor’s New Robes stuffed in my stocking this Wintersday? Mrrrow ;P

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr I agree that the distinction of weights is less meaningful now, but I doubt very much it would be easy to allow us to mix & match across weights.

Your basing that assumption on non-data, though. I wouldn’t assume that allowing cross weight mixing would be simple or no work at all but I know it’s a restriction built to mitigate clipping. In that respect, 2 possibilities could occur:

1. Don’t allow cross weight armor blending. Anet only has to worry about new sets blending with the past sets, not the past sets blending with themselves.

2. Don’t concern themselves with clipping of past armor at all. As is, armor clips and you mitigate it yourself by just not wearing stuff that clips too bad. So if removing the restriction on armors causes issues with clipping, let it but just make sure it’s not an issue with new gear.

Remember, this is about damage control, not really how meaningful the division of armor currently is or had been in the past.

Ashen.2907:

I would love to see armor sold piecemeal. I dont even mind the concept of outfits. My primary concern, the one keeping me from collecting newer armor or buying outfits, is that I cannot honestly say that I like much of what weve seen released post launch. I find nearly all of it to be unappealing. Sigh, so many “trenchcoats.”

You know a piece of armor that I’d buy in a heartbeat or hunt (also read: lament at the grind) endlessly until I could obtain it for my wardrobe and likely would be a cool popular piece for many? Bandaged chest piece. Sort of like the tier 3 Charr heavy armor but less mummy-wraps and just more a lightly wrapped piece with ample torso showing. The females’ chest would be bound look a smaller while wearing it. I’d hate such a piece because I’d likely wear it on every “skimpy” character I play.

That and a nurse hat/medical eye patch could work well for a mad doctor-esque Necromancer.

Shivan.9438:

I’d like to see Anet spend time on making armor sets, but make it a long term project. Do it right and test it on every racial model and gender and size to make sure there’s no clipping or bugs what-so-ever. Even if it takes 6 months to make 1 armor set. Little bit of time here, little bit of time there. Make it good. I’m willing to wait for that. And people that start begging for it, tell them shut up and wait, because it needs to be done right.

Like I mentioned in the other same-topic thread, I think Anet should start some damage control with their work bloat. Posters have speculated, time and time again, why it’d take Anet so long to produce quality armor and as much as players want more and more armor sets made and acknowledge the effort and resources that may be required, but rarely do you ever hear posters discussing compromises, work-arounds, sacrifices, ANYTHING to slash at the workload of making armors in general.

While I can agree to giving Anet patience while they work on implementing good quality armor sets, the fact is doing that isn’t going to pay the bills! Some solutions I’d consider and would enjoy discussing rather than rehashing the same arguments over and over:

1. The Outfit Solution: Basically abandon armor completely (or mostly) and just implement tons of outfit variety. Also, work on improving the feature by allowing the player to choose to hide the gloves/shoulders along with the helmet and perhaps allow armor gloves/helm show through, if the proper solution can be found. They can have samurai looks, they already have ninja, perhaps a nurse look, a vampire look, just go ham and make a lot of variety! With a small layer of customization in hiding gloves/shoulders, you can do a lot more than you think with an outfit.

2. Piece-wise Armor: Rather than focusing on whole armor sets (personally think we have enough), just create armor pieces. I’m sure many already feel that legs/body is a part of the armor that lacks in variety (I find myself using only a select few for most of my characters) so rather than needing to make a whole set, just release a cool looking caped blouse or tattooed chest or simple shorts or a speedo. In CoH, there were costume theme sets, but MAANY stand-alone pieces that weren’t part of a set. Needing to make whole armor sets as a whole theme is what is slowing down the process of adding cool stuff.

3. Weightless Armor: No more light, medium or heavy. Rather than creating a concept that you then have to divide into “mage”, “rouge” and “soldier” or developing an armor concept that you then have to recreate in 2 extra variants is a huge extra time expenditure. If you have a concept for a set of clothes, you would only need to then export it to every race and then every class can use it. No extra effort required to strike a parity between the classes and it cuts necessary work by 2/3.

4. Racial Gear: It’s already been done, and while it doesn’t cut down the necessary workload of creating the gear, it can be a shortcut in resolving clipping issues if you only have to fit armor for a specific race/gender rather than all 5. Simply produce more equipment with racial/gender limits rather than being forced to re-purpose or stretch textures on foreign models. This solution may not produce equivalent armor choices faster, but it could greatly improve armor quality.

Frenchtoastersticks.8061:

I dont understand why people think “but it’s more work” is an excuse for anet to not do something they are definitely capable of.

If you were reasonable, you would have an empathetic view of the situation. It’s not really making excuses to not make armors when you’re satisfied with the content provided. If you’re asking the devs for an addition, that’s reasonable but whether it’s feasible is another matter.

Ganathar.4956:

I don’t think that they need to make sure that every armor weight gets a reward in every season of LW3. For example, they could just add different chest weights in different episodes. I wouldn’t mind that at all.

I’m asking from a damage control stand point but, would you and others consider it alright if we ditch the whole armor weight part of armor creation? Any game mechanics tied to armor (namely the armor stat) could simply be tied to class instead. So rather than creating an armor style then inventing 2 other weight versions of it, you simply make a set of gear specially stylized to look unique from any other armor in the game.

nanomidgy.9180:

+1!

I made another post about this as well, basically a scythe gs and the best animation:
https://youtu.be/Jj5bICL9R7I

It’s extremely aggravating to watch those animations. The character’s body is constantly passing through the shaft of the weapon which is extremely obvious because the character isn’t making proper body movements to allow the weapon to pass by the body. To make lateral slashes like that, you’d have to bend down so the weapon passes over you, just change the gripping of the weapon so you’re holding it near the end or spin with the weapon.

It’s REALLY obvious when the character goes from idle to combat stance. She goes from holding the scythe with 1 hand and the weapon shaft behind her then transitions to the same right handed grip but the weapon shaft passes right through her into her left hand.

This phenomenon occurs for practically every animation, too. It’s a shame, as the one hook animation (where she turns her body, making it look like the weapon slides along her body rather than passing through, then changes the weapon grip to perform a lateral stab then pull) looks great and should have been how the majority of the animations worked.

Diovid.9506:

CptAurellian.9537:

What’s the point of such a change? With the current system, only an upgrade to a heavier armor class would be beneficial, making it utterly pointless for the current heavy classes.

Look/Feel is important to quite a number of players. For example, there are people who want to play a character with light/holy magic but without heavy armor (i.e. a priest-type class). Conversely, there are people who want to play a character with dark/death magic but with heavy armor (i.e. a dark knight / death knight-type class).

In this case, grade of armor should simply be abolished and anyone should be able to wear whatever gear represents their character best. This is already nearly the case but there is still remnants of the “armor weight” system that divides the professions mechanically. That’s the whole “armor” stat which, frankly, is pointless. There is also the necessity to create skins for each armor weight which is why it takes so long to make armor skins in the 1st place.

All in all, the armor weight system was a cool concept early in the game’s life but as GW2 ages, it shows more and more of its flaws and the positives of the system grow more minuscule when you consider those flaws.

What would such a mechanic add to the game/playstyles?

My suggestions:

Cosmetic:

Lock current armor skins so that currently, those released, remain so for the current races and games and mix an matchable but those are the remaining skins outside of individualized helmet, gloves and back skins that are released through various means (in-game and gem store).

Improve the outfit system to allow players to hide shoulder and gloves along with the helmet. Hiding gloves or helmet allows you to either make the outfit part invisible or replace the helm/gloves with what you’re currently wearing. With the release of more outfits and helm/glove/back skins and perhaps adding extra dye channels for outfits to better control how the outfits are colored, this will improve the overall customization of outfits while limiting the work required that armor pieces would need. Coupled with just plain racial/gender specific outfits completely designed with that race/gender in mind instead of force-spreading them, you alleviate the artists’ burden in designing gear that actually looks good vs making armor that ultimately looks nice on one race, bulky and uninteresting on another or just plain bad because of rush work.

On top of all of that, now you can apply more focus on animation, particle effects and model of the characters and weapons! So add more races! The difficulty then leans on creating story and recording voices for the new races. I’ve got no suggestions to make this easier to accomplish. But regarding story, it isn’t necessary to create a specific city or leveling area for new races. Elements of the already existing game can be used for this and choosing specific story elements at character creation can determine where you start, what level you start at and ultimately how your story unfolds and blends with the current world. The important part isn’t the city or conforming to the base mechanics but rather telling a compelling story! But if a new city is going to be introduced, it’s not necessary for said city to be a city specifically for a certain race, just any race.

If such alterations were made, you might see more outfits, more races, more story threads expanding on the story’s scope and more interest in the older areas.

Races:
To start, the obvious choices of additional races would be Tengu, Kodan and Largos. Later neat additional races could be Skritt and Hylek. Difficult additional races would be Centaurs, Quagan and Krait. With the limits of armor being locked to the original 5 races, it won’t be necessary to revise all the current outfits/armors to the new races but instead create and utilize new outfits that are unique (figuratively) to each race. It might start out that the newer races have fewer options to start but this can change over time. (FYI, armor still functions the same for the new races, they just don’t have any visual impact as they are covered by outfits/special helm/glove skins).

Instanced Content:
Either improve on the current instanced content and/or create more! While open world stuff is great and we need more of that too, there is certain advantages to instanced content as well! Also, vary group size for these contents.

Random:
Would be nice to see my other characters in my home instance and I could talk to them. Maybe check their inventories, take/give stuff to them or give them off-screen tasks to do so I have more stuff to talk to them about. Loot can be involved, if need be.

Ophidia Moonstone.2587:

If people quit buying outfits and only bought armor, we’d have more armor and less outfits. I have bought exactly one outfit, and I regretted it.

Have you ever thought that people just enjoy the outfits for what they are so that’s why they buy them?

MeinUguu.8256:

Frenchtoastersticks.8061:

i dont doubt it takes 9 months. should it? probably not. because it taking 9 months likely means they arent devoting many resources to it. threads like this wont magically make it take less than 9 months but it SHOULD tell anet to try and put resources there to make players happier.

They don’t care if players are happy.

That’s been made evident by the fact that errors that have existed since -DAY ONE- are still around and plaguing the game.

See what I mean?

Some of you guys underestimating the devs and their workload is hilarious. I mean, if you want to boost the workflow so bad, why not apply for a job there yourself?

That being said, we are also part of the reason armor takes so long to be released. Have you seen how many complaint threads pop up about clipping? You’d think the game was somehow released with zero clipping or bugs.

Pretty much, yeah. Likely during development and the first year after, they had been working on armor sets to release in various ways. Just thinking from common sense, if your game would release with a “cash shop”, wouldn’t you have created things from the start to put in it? And made plans and started work on things to release later in the game’s life for both events, rewards and cash shop?

Ardid.7203:

I think nights should stay shorter than day, but they should be much more noticeable: Overall darker, with a true night sky, much more dimmed ambient light, and way stronger “glow in the dark” effects.

And nocturnal mobs with eyes that glint in the shadows. . .

Just a flesh wound.3589:

From what I understand about WoW armor, it’s “painted on” the character model with only some pieces being 3D. That can make a big difference in how fast and how frequently new armor is made. Also, they have different races but those races share the same character models, again making armor for that game easier to make. Blizzard also make billions (literally). ANet makes far less. The budgets aren’t going to be anywhere close.

It’s different for every MMO. Every MMO has made some kind of limits to get what they have. Of all MMOs, I think FFXIV has some of the most best looking armor and textures (although I haven’t played BDO so they might be catching up) and the reason why is they are subscription based (pure cash flow + it’s SquareEnix) and they only have humanoid and midget-baby models to make armor for.

I see people saying that outfits are crap, but comparing the overall personality of armor vs outfit, outfits has a lot of unique flavor. Even with players that will hate on outfits just in spite of them instead of if they’re actually good or not, they still have made more cash than armor with respect to time, resources and appeal.