Guild Wars 2

Maugetarr.6823:

Stogzlol.4795:

All I have to say to this, you made no point comparing thief to other professions with HIGHLY TELEGRAPHED, CASTED and/or CHANNELED, COOL DOWNED abilities to a thief whom is under telegraphed few cast times, few channels and no cool downs.

The only thief skills that aren’t “highly telegraphed/channelled” are Tactical Strike and Backstab. The requirements for setting those up (CnD, BPS + HS, smokescreen + HS, SR) are all highly telegraphed with the exception of blinding powder and traited steal (the latter of which I’ve never seen used).

Stogzlol.4795 isn’t necessarily trying to argue whether or not the Thief skills in that list are poorly cued (even though they are). The reason why Arganthium.5638’s list of attacks with a damage coefficient above 1.3 is a poor argument is because the vast majority of the skills listed there are very well cued (aside from a few notable exceptions that should be nerfed in their own respective ways) to the point where if you’re hit by something like [Ice Spike], [Big Ol’ Bomb] or Ranger greatsword [Counterattack], you mostly deserve it. Those skills earn their damage coefficients. Most Thief skills don’t deserve high damage coefficients since they don’t have long cast-times, are typically poorly cued and don’t possess any post-cast delays.

phys.7689:

part of the point of the class is to hit you with lots of smaller attacks, not really supposed to be slow powerhouses.

While hitting repeatedly with small attacks that are difficult to distinguish is a property of best reserved for an auto-attack. Basing an entire play-style’s skill-set around that sort of principle just turns every attack into something that resembles an auto-attack. This kind of play-style vastly reduces combat legibility for opponents because there’s little way to distinguish between individual attacks. This makes it difficult to know when to dodge, block or reposition (if the opportunity presents itself), which undermines what is supposed to be the cornerstone of survivability across all classes in GW2.

Also, about Ranger [Long Range Shot], you’re right in how the damage it deals is pretty high for an auto-attack given its range, projectile speed/reliability and its overall attack rate. I’ve reduced the damage there, but something vastly more important is the situation of [Hunter’s Shot].

[Hunter’s Shot] is effectively a wasted skill slot on Ranger longbow. It’s a spammy, throaway skill that inflicts minimal damage with a minimal cast-time. It’s stealth aspect is a bit paradoxical because while it is overpowered (33% uptime on stealth), a Ranger really can’t take advantage of 3 seconds of stealth well enough for [Hunter’s Shot] to really define a play-style. This throwaway skill that grants a bonus on which the Ranger can’t really capitalize makes the 3 slot on Ranger longbow effectively a wasted slot.

[Hunter’s Shot] needs a functionality change to bring longbow up (especially after a proper auto-attack nerf). Got any ideas? I’ll open that question up to the thread at large too.

Xaylin.1860:

Swagg.9236:

Trap skills
[Ambush]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Teleport to target location and summon an attacking thief at your former location.
• Teleport range: 600
• Thief duration: 20 seconds
• Breaks stun
• This skill’s summon effect now only summons the melee-specialized female thief.

I’m sure the highlighted change is purely based on practical thoughts. But it made me laugh pretty hard. Thank you very much.

Because the female melee thief uses [Scorpion Wire], it’s meant to supplement the already escape/repositioning-oriented functionality of the new [Ambush]. You shadowstep to target location while female thief NPC uses [Scorpion Wire] to further compromise your opponent’s attempt to close in on you. It could also be used offensively as a means to predict where an opponent will be in the near future because of the pull effect (provided that the target doesn’t have stability or is reflecting projectiles).

Glad I could make you laugh, though, I suppose.

Updates to pistol main-hand, shortbow, [Death Blossom] and stealth skills.

MatthijsB.4731:

Increasing the base HP is not a huge buff.

Moving the Thief to medium-tier base hp would allow the Thief to contribute more consistently to a fight. The overall goal of this initiative is to shift the thief away from instant-spike and towards a controlled, better telegraphed DPS dealer with control and defensive options.

MatthijsB.4731:

Staggered looks like a really underwhelming, situational & RNG condition.

You act like situational things are bad. Situational-use skills promote keen battlefield awareness, add a skill-cap to their proper use (because just spamming them would be a bad idea given their situational nature) and introduce new, unique dynamics into an encounter.

RNG implies that the Thief would have no control over when he/she inflicted the staggered condition. That is entirely not the case. You’re using the word RNG incorrently here.

MatthijsB.4731:

Putting a recharge on thief attack skills is just ridiculous,

I’ve already detailed why stealth skills in particular could use a cool-down. An alternative solution to the problem posed by stealth skills would be to simply make “missing” an attack while in stealth apply revealed the caster—a solution that I happen to think is far more intuitive and natural than just adding a cool-down to stealth skills.

MatthijsB.4731:

Backstab might hit hard against glassy foes, but the damage is perfectly fine against the heavy classes, classes with high protection up time or classes that can spam weakness.

The vulnerability stacking addition to [Backstab] will help alleviate the disparity between the skill’s effectiveness on high-defense and low-defense classes.

MatthijsB.4731:

In addition, I believe if you decide to run glass you know that there are thieves and that you should be able to prevent backstabs from happening, by timing your dodge, gaining distance or spam the floor with AoE’s.

A Thief’s access to multiple direct-to-target teleport skills (of which two are weapon-skills and don’t even have cool-downs) typically undermine a player’s positioning when fighting a Thief. Fighting a Thief typically means that keen positioning is moot. That has to change.

As for dodges, I’ve already said that the current stealth skills are broken in that a Thief can spam them repeatedly until they hit. This fact completely invalidates your argument of “timing your dodge” because you can’t keep dodging forever, while the Thief is obliged to keep spamming from stealth until [Backstab] or any other stealth skill connects. That also has to change.

MatthijsB.4731:

Skills that dash at foes can be easily dodged, or you can even move away so it does not hit.

Yes, that’s what this game needs. Those skills are balanced and allow for counter-play. Instant-cast teleports that inflict immobilize and high damage and also forego recharges belong in games with dedicated healers.

MatthijsB.4731:

The teleport is an important part of the thieves deception abilities.

Instantly teleporting directly to a target is not “deception”; it’s an imbalanced gap-closer.

MatthijsB.4731:

For utility skills and traits I think that all of the signet changes are stupid,

OK.

MatthijsB.4731:

the increased recharge on basilisk venom makes it even more underwhelming. Note that this skill can be seen on the thief and can then easily be blocked or dodged.

[Basilisk Venom] is a passive, attack-triggered bonus that stuns foes for 1 1/2 seconds on a class replete with instant or near-instant attacks (some of which even attack near-instantly from range). Moreover, it procs Lyssa runes (which also need a nerf) often turning [Basilisk Venom] into a single-button win for Thieves that can even be used more than once within a single encounter if the fight lasts long enough.

This sort of thing needs a regulating nerf: once per encounter; with a cast-time that could punish wanton use mid-encounter should it come back off cool-down during a fight.

kyubi.3620:

2. Stat scaling with master (the end of the physical/condition damage hybrid and the endless QQ of player who are mad at it)

I really thought about this more, and I do actually think that it would probably in the end be a better and ultimately solution than adding pet traits. As people have said before in the thread, pet traits could do more harm than good in allowing rangers to run super tanky condition builds while making a super DPS pet that players can’t deal with due to passive pet healing.

kyubi.3620:

3. high damage reduction from area of effect.

This kind of suggestion speaks volumes on the issue of the Ranger pet mechanic right now in GW2. Like I said before, I do think that this problem can be solved by additional pet commands (making F2 a weapon swap into a pet-based command set). Having a lot of defensive commands at the ready for the pet could save the pet’s life and also make pet management a more active role for the Ranger. Controlling a pet’s positioning with instant-activation queue commands would light the Ranger up as an interactive and engaging class instead of the skill spammer that it is right now.

CnaeusDane.2938:

Ground targeting would certainly help guardian mobility. I’d love to have it as an option. Though we do lose some utility from it. (Won’t be as easy to thief stomp if they port, banish stomp will be trickier, RoW + JI won’t auto track, though for WvW it’d be excellent.) Personally I’d prefer a fix / reduction to merciful healing and make it a ground target option.

Personally, I think that a small skill-cap increase on combos with IoJ would be a small price to pay for additional mobility. I’ll get to designing the skill.

CnaeusDane.2938:

Shelter is tricky. I see why people want to change it but at the same time it’s a problem to change it. As it’s used now it’s a large scale burst mitigation, as the only other option is renewed focus. The problem is warriors have access to things like endure pain and shield block to do the same thing so I’d never opt to get rid of it as it stands.

It just makes me sad to hear Guardians openly admit to calling [Shelter] a crutch and then saying that there’s no issue with it. It really speaks volumes on the current state of GW2 PvP combat. I’m going to revert my suggested changes to the skill, for now. I’ll keep it saved, but I my hope is that we can move to something more along the lines of what I’ve suggested in the future. The best way to do that, however, is to really take a critical look at the game as a whole and target the issues that make [Shelter] into a necessary crutch and not just an overpowered healing skill (as it really is).

CnaeusDane.2938:

What could be an interesting idea is that Signet of Resolve instead of just passively removing conditions could be stored for up to 3 conditions removed in a burst. A small icon similar to how shield of wrath works, ticks up to 3. Activate the skill once to use the condition removal, twice to use the heal. Would allow for counter play, since the animation would be longer and could be interrupted. Let’s players have a more active role, which is always a plus and probably the biggest thing is allowing people to actually see the effect activate. I could count on 1 hand the times I’ve seen signet actually remove a condition.

That’s actually a really neat idea. I’ll try to craft something for that.

Updates to scepter. I’m going to work on focus next based on some of the ideas discussed lately in the thread.

Auesis.7301:

I legitimately do not understand any logic here. Your proposal keeps Initiative as a thing, but most weapon skills now have cooldowns? What?! What’s the point of Initiative, then? You will ALWAYS have 6+ because you will have nothing to spend it on.

Combo skills remain as initiative hogs. I’m actually looking to adjust initiative costs a little bit more across the board to preserve the mechanic as a relevant resource pool. Even so, the point of the cool-downs is to add breaks between attacks for opponents as well as transform the Thief into less of a time-starved, spam-centric class that shows up and kills something/dies and shift its play-style into that of a consistent combat contributor like an Engineer or Ranger.

Auesis.7301:

All of this stuff is a HUGE sacrifice for an extra initial 5k HP that will melt away anyway because we still don’t have good access to defensive boons, so who cares?

The addition of the ranged CC throughout weapon skills will give the Thief a lot of combat options to employ while not necessarily in the thick of combat. It adds timing, cool-down management and positioning as a skill-cap to the class. [Push] is a dual-purpose CC skill that can serve to disrupt an enemy’s positioning or prime further attacks. I’ll look to maybe add some conditional defensive boons throughout some of the lacking weapon sets either as a means to sustain in-weapon-set combat or maybe prime the player for swap into a more full-frontal attack style. That actually might be a good way to go about adjusting pistol/dagger since it’s already a pretty attrition-based/defensive set-up.

Maugetarr.6823:

Is chaining CnD really considered perma-stealth now?

It’s always been perma stealth chaining. Moreover, it inflicted high amounts of damage. By toning the damage down and putting a definitive cap to the amount of stealth that it can apply within a certain time frame, the skill turns into an attack-primer.

Maugetarr.6823:

Furthermore 40 seconds CD for a powerful attack? I think you need to rethink what you consider powerful in this game for that length CD:

People really underestimate the power of CC in this game. It comes from a combination of stability being overtuned and people being spoiled by high damage skills.

Moreover, your list is entirely out of context. You can’t just throw out CC-related skills as examples because they all exist within the context of a weapon set or build.

Furthermore, CC is typically powerful enough in and of itself. CC skills really don’t require much damage if any at all. Keen use of most CC is enough to turn an encounter around. That list does have a lot of salient examples of CC that’s a bit overtuned because its paired with excessive damage and I’d like to address those individually in my other threads or in future threads.

Finally, I’m still looking over my suggestions and people’s reactions. I’m still constantly making additions and modifications to everything on an almost daily basis.
[/quote]

Sarrs.4831:

Swagg.9236:

If a player can dodge a [Backstab], the thief shouldn’t just be able to keep spamming [Backstab] until it hits; that completly undermines the purpose of dodging it. It makes dodging, positioning and timing completely moot.

Easier solution: make failed stealth attacks pull you out of stealth.

That’s also a solution. I guess it could work to somehow code “missing” an attack as a trigger to apply revealed. That would also really change how stealth worked across the board. I actually kind of like that possibility.

Maugetarr.6823:

So um… backstab has a level 1 eviscerate damage and malicious strike has a level 2 eviscerate. Why would you use dagger over S/P anymore?

I suppose that is a point to make. However, using a [Malicious Strike] against a foe that isn’t already staggered would cost 7 initiative and it also doesn’t mean that the foe might not dodge or mitigate the [Malicious Strike].

[Backstab] costs no initiative and is infinitely less telegraphed than [Malicious Strike].

Maugetarr.6823:

Does CnD still grant stealth? What’s the point in covering up CnD with a weak push on a 40 second CD?

To prevent perma-stealth and to also allow the Thief to provide a set-up for either his/her own attacks or possibly also a teammate’s attack. It’s also simply just movement manipulation if used against a non-staggered foe.

Moreover, [Push] can be tied to a weapon-set that includes something like [Backstab] because it deals no damage giving d/d a very powerful attack option in mid-fight or even as an opener.

NyuuNeeChan.2891:

Swagg.9236:

The Thief is now more of a control/attrition/support class with various, substantial damage options scattered throughout each weapon set.

That is the thing i don’t understand a most. What is average player first thought about thief class in any mmo – highest burst, super squishy, focused on dealing damage.
I couldn’t care less about support options after choosing thief. Don’t make changes that deny logic.

This isn’t about what people think that a Thief should be. This is about making a class that has a proper place within the balance guidelines of Guild Wars 2.

Making a class function based solely on its looks or any subjective, preconceived lore is the illogical thing.

style.6173:

@OP: You have to think about these things in terms of what would be the role of a thief after these changes.

So, what role would a thief play in tPvP after you take away the burst potential?

When it comes to raw damage, Thief’s role would be of a more consistent combatant like an Engineer or Ranger instead of someone that just engages instantly from range for huge damage and then either dies or breaks off to try it again.

With the addition of the staggered condition, the Thief would gain a supportive role in combat. By timing a staggering skill, the Thief could give allies or him/herself openings to deliver attacks in combat or even saved downed allies from stomps.

And it’s not like I’ve removed burst potential. [Malicious Strike] is r2 Eviscerate without a cool-down (even though it is bound by initiative consumption). [Heartseeker] damage at x<25% hp went untouched. [Headshot] → [Unload] → [Desperado] → [Crack Shot Frenzy] → [Ambush] → [Unload] is also a lot of potential damage. I’m looking at addressing pistol/dagger. Furthermore, I’ve read complaints about a 10-second recharge on stealth skills. I’m probably going to reduce to that to 5-second recharge. That gives the Thief the option to use a stealth skill pretty much every time that he/she goes into stealth, but it still punishes the Thief for missing that skill while in stealth. It adds a greater skill cap to stealth skills and provides the opponent with counterplay. If a player can dodge a [Backstab], the thief shouldn’t just be able to keep spamming [Backstab] until it hits; that completly undermines the purpose of dodging it. It makes dodging, positioning and timing completely moot.

DeceiverX.8361:

You also stated that the thief class is so predictable in your original post. If they’re so predictable, why is this burst such a bad thing and why is it not countered with skilled play?

Spike damage is fine if it’s well-cued and on a reasonable cool-down.

Thief spike damage is neither well-cued (nor organized due to lack of individual skill cool-downs) nor is it bound to a reasonable cool-down. Moreover, thieves have blind-spam, evasion frames, instant teleports, Lyssa/Basilisk Venom, (or just Basilisk Venom) along with other mechanics that all combine to amplify a spike. Guild Wars 2 wasn’t designed to handle that kind of game-play.

The reason why Thief is predictable, is because the Thief has such a narrow design scope: kill a target. It has no other functions. Yet despite being predictable, it’s mechanics remain unfair within the scope of balanced GW2 combat. That’s the issue.

DeceiverX.8361:

So again, you’re stating that because a thief can burst on par with most other classes..

Spike damage of such magnitude does not belong in Guild Wars 2. Every instance of such levels of burst damage has to be toned down or changed outright. No class deserves it. No class needs it. This game isn’t built to handle it.

Fortus.6175:

Whats next, reducing their health pool to minimun, give them light armor, nerf their healing in every patch and make all their skills have 40+ secs CD with highly telegraphed and long casting animations?!

It’s like people don’t know a balanced class when they see one.

havoc.6814:

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

Just because one broken spec can take out another broken spec doesn’t make either of them magically not broken.

This whole game needs nerfs and functionality changes across the board.

Arganthium.5638:

Swagg.9236:

Guild Wars 2 was a game with combat designed around the player anticipating an opponent’s moves and appearance by reading the opponent’s actions and gear,

No it wasn’t, otherwise there would be visible casting bars.

The only thing that cast bars would do for GW2 would be to turn it into a seizure machine for epileptics. Cast bars for offensive attacks don’t mean anything if all the offensive attack is a teleport or has a cast-time that of 1/2-second or less (even a 3/4-second cast-time is pushing it). Cast bar information in GW2 would mostly blur by like a stock ticker that haphazardly vomited out ticker tape at mach speed. That’s the issue.

To be brief, the lack of a dedicated healer makes this game’s combat balance dependent on any given player being able to read his/her opponent’s attack cues. Without a profession to constantly manage everybody’s red bars, it means that there’s nobody to save a player from instant or near-instant offensive attacks (either through passive damage reduction or snap health recovery). That technically means that such types of offensive skills shouldn’t exist in this game and all of the heavy damage should gravitate to well-cued, recharge-bound attack skills with clear animations so as to promote a legible combat environment in which players can survive with their dodges, positioning and clutch damage-mitigation skills.

MonMalthias.4763:

I don’t even play Thief myself and I would have to say that putting a cooldown on Backstab or other stealth openers is not the way to go. Yes, on the one hand you limit Backstab availability, but this simply pushes Thieves to want to frontload even more of their damage due to the nerfs to damage. Thieves playing, say, D/P should be able to execute multiple backstabs over the course of the fight – but the damage should never be frontloaded.

• Instead the concept of escalating threat should be applied here. As I said, I don’t play Thief, so I won’t comment on numbers. What I will say is that reducing the coefficients very little for Front damage and not at all for Back/Side damage will simply push Thieves more towards things like the 1 minute Venom Thief that stacks Venoms for Might in order to get inordinately high, frontloaded Backstab damage.
• With that in mind, the Recharge should be removed. Front stabs should grant 5 stacks of Vulnerability. Side and Backstabs 10 stacks of Vulnerability. Damage overall should be decreased and coefficients moved to skills 2-5.

The point of the cool-down was actually never necessarily to limit stealth skill availability, but rather to punish poor usage of stealth skills in general. As of right now, you can go into stealth and spam stealth skills with impunity until they hit a target because they lack both a cool-down and initiative cost. Perhaps 10 seconds was too much, though. Maybe 5 seconds across the board would be better. At least that way, it would be more in line with the base Revealed duration imposed on somebody that leaves stealth.

I do like the idea of adding a vulnerability stacking aspect to stealth skills, though (at least [Backstab] anyway). I’d better remove staggered from them, though. A 40% or 60% up-time on staggered just from stealth skills would be overpowered.

Azukas.1426:

Where’s the increased defense?

Base HP increase.
Addition of CC across the board within weapon skills.
Venom trait updates.
Devourer Venom.
Ambush.
Shadow Trap CD reduction.

I broadened the options for active defense and gave the thief substantial more passive defense with the base hp buff.

Azukas.1426:

What you are suggesting kills the class

It increases the Thief’s combat legibility while providing it with more well-defined roles and clutch functions outside of “Find target and press buttons to kill target.” The Thief is now more of a control/attrition/support class with various, substantial damage options scattered throughout each weapon set. The changes on the whole make the Thief into a better overall contributor to a fight as opposed to a guy that runs in to a fight and presses a bunch of buttons to kill something before he dies.

DeceiverX.8361:

I still to this day don’t understand the backstab hate. Yes the damage is big, but it’s less than burst rangers, axe or longbow warriors, zerker guards, and shatter mesmers.

Meanwhile also remaining less survivable than all of those builds, requires positioning skills and resource management.

Thirty points into Trickery and [Infiltrator’s Signet] typically take most any “resource management” out of a Thief’s worries.

Furthermore, I’m already increasing Thief survivability and sustainability across the board. That’s why damage can afford to come down.

DeceiverX.8361:

Backstab builds in their entirety are used to blow up squishies and finish enemies at say 50% hp. Nobody should be killing another class at full health when beginning the fight at 50% hp.

Finishing a foe at 50% hp from stealth personifies poor combat legibility.

This game is founded on the principles that combat should be legible because there are no healers/damage-mitigation classes constantly monitoring hp bars to make sure nobody gets vaporized in an instant. Legible combat provides an individual player a means of countering an opponent through the use of positioning, dodges or a damage mitigation skill (all of which typically have long cool-downs and limited durations).

DeceiverX.8361:

The real problem is permastealth or stealth continuity.

While stealth is indeed a problem in and of itself, front-loading huge amounts of damage onto every Thief skill is probably its biggest sin. Even without stealth, it’s tough to deal with a thief because of its constant instant-cast abilities, teleports, blind spam, evasion spam all combined with high damage on every attack. The whole class is a mess of issues that must be dealt with carefully.

Dual.8953:

A few questions.
-Do the skills with damage nerfs get a base damage increase?

No. The point of a damage nerf is reduce the overall damage. The damage nerfs are meant to balance out the overall increased survivability of the Thief with its increase to base hp along with other defensive measures incorporated into various weapon and utility skill designs.

Dual.8953:

-How do you envision the pistol nerfs would effect Pistol/Dagger’s ability to function?

It would become more of a defensive/attrition set-up that would specialize in defense and enemy movement control. I was thinking of maybe adjusting some of the torment and initiative cost to [Shadow Strike] in order to provide a little more pressure for the weapon set, though.

Dual.8953:

-What are you thoughts on how the x/D sets are supposed to operate now, having lost their natural stealth?

[Cloak and Dagger] will be incorporated into a part of any number of planned combination attacks that would involve multiple skills. It would remove the potential to perma-stealth one’s self, instead making x/D into possibly either a clutch positioning tool (using stealth to cover quick movement) or as a stealth skill battery (with a better cue now since the opponent would know that the Thief would only have 3 seconds to pull something off while in stealth via [Cloak and Dagger]).

Dual.8953:

How is Push worth it’s cooldown?

Use it on a staggered foe for a free full-power [Backstab] or [Tactical Strike]. Or just use it to set up any stealth-triggered 1 skill. Moreover, the 180-range knock-back can be good for point contention or just ruining someone’s stomp. Given that the skill can either knock-back or knock-down while also being tied to a stealth-granting prerequisite skill, it has enormous versatility that really should only be available once per encounter for it not to be overpowered.

Trickery traits
Preparedness (Trickery — 15 minor)

• This trait now replaces Initial Strike as a major Master trait (Trickery — XI).

Initial Strike (Trickery — XI)

• This trait replaces Preparedness as the master minor trait (15 points into Trickery)
• This trait now has a 20-second internal cool-down.

Sleight of Hand (Trickery – XII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you steal, your next attack also dazes your target. Reduces steal recharge.
• Sleight of Hand daze: ½ second
• Sleight of Hand duration: 10 seconds
• Steal recharge reduction: 10%
  • When stealing under the effects of this trait, the Thief now gains 1 stack of Sleight of Hand which lasts for 10 seconds. Sleight of Hand is a buff similar to a venom buff. The number of Sleight of Hand stacks will still decrease by 1 if an attack lands of if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed or Invulnerable.

Shadow Arts traits
Cloaked in Shadow (Shadow Arts – VI)

• This trait now only procs once upon entering stealth (no longer pulses every 3 seconds while in stealth).
• This trait now has a 10-second internal cool-down.

Power Shots (Shadow Arts – VII)

• Now also reduces recharges on shortbow skills by 20%.

Leeching Venoms (Shadow Arts – IX)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Gain a stack of venom leech for 20 seconds each time you use a venom skill (maximum of 3 stacks at any time). When you strike a foe while under the effects of venom leech, you steal some health from that foe.
• Venom leech duration: 20 seconds
• Venom leech heal: 370 (0.2)
• Venom leech damage: 200 (0.07)
  • The number of venom leech stacks will decrease by 1 if an attack lands of if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed or Invulnerable.

Venomous Aura (Shadow Arts – XII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you use a Venom skill, you and nearby allies gain 1 stack of Venomous Aura for 15 seconds (maximum of 1 stack at any time). For each stack of Venomous Aura that you have, conditions on you expire 15% faster and you take 5% less damage from attacks. Whenever you use a Venom skill, you also weaken and stagger nearby foes.
• Venomous Aura (1 stack; 20-second duration): Conditions on you expire 15% faster; you take 5% less damage.
• Venomous Aura ally effect radius when activated: 240
• Staggered: 2 seconds
• Weakened: 3 seconds
• Radius: 240

Acrobatics traits
Assassin’s Retreat (Acrobatics – IV)

• REMOVED FROM THE GAME.

NEW TRAIT – Trapper’s Dexterity (Acrobatics – IV)

• Shadow Trap now uses ground-targeting. Ambush, Tripwire and Needle Trap have increased ranges.
• [Tripwire] and [Needle Trap] range increase: 600
• [Ambush] range increase: 300
• [Shadow Trap] ground-targeted range: 900

Critical Strikes traits
Signets of Power (Critical Strikes – II)

• Might stacks granted by signet use reduced from 5 for 10 seconds to 3 for 10 seconds.

Ankle Shots (Critical Strikes — VII)

• Moved to adept tier.

Pistol Mastery (Critical Strikes – V)

• Moved to Master tier.
• Additional damage with pistols reduced from 10% to 5%.
• Now also reduces recharges on pistol skills by 20%.

Critical Haste (Critical Strikes – X) — NAME CHANGED TO — Trickster’s Initiative

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Using a Trick skill grants initiative.
• Initiative gain: 1

Deadly Arts traits
Dagger Training (Deadly Arts – IX)

• Now also reduces recharges on dagger skills by 20%.

Potent Poison (Deadly Arts – V)

• REMOVED FROM THE GAME

Combined Training (Deadly Arts – X)

• Moved to Adept tier to replace Potent Poison.

NEW TRAIT – Ambush Vanguard (Deadly Arts – X)

• When you use a shadowstep skill or a movement skill, a thief ally ambushes your current target.
• Ambush thief duration: 20 seconds
• Cool-down: 60 seconds
  • This trait only triggers if the player has a valid target selected when he/she uses a movement or shadowstep skill.
  • This trait summons the male [Unload] Thief when it activates.
  • The ally thief appears directly next to the player’s selected target.

Improvisation (Deadly Arts – VII)

• Moved to Adept tier.

Mug (Deadly Arts – III)

• Moved to Master tier.
• Damage reduced from 366 to 286.
• Now also staggers the target for 3 seconds.

Panic Strike (Deadly Arts – XI) — NAME CHANGED TO — Evasive Pitfall (Deadly Arts — XI)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you successfully evade an attack, you lay a [Needle Trap] at your location.
• Cool-down: 30 seconds
  • This Needle Trap exists separately in the game from the utility skill version—although the two are identical. This allows the Thief to maintain up to two Needle Traps on the field if equipped with this trait and the utility skill.

Residual Venom (Deadly Arts – XII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you use a venom skill, your next attack is boosted based on that venom’s attribute.
• Devourer Venom (1): Your next attack cripples (5 seconds) your foe.
• Ice Drake Venom (1): Your next attack chills (2 seconds) your foe.
• Skale Venom (1): Your next attack inflicts vulnerability (5 stacks; 10 seconds) on your foe and grants you regeneration (5 seconds).
• Spider Venom (1): Your next attack poisons (5 seconds) your foe.
• Basilisk Venom (1): Your next attack grants you protection (4 seconds).
• Skelk Venom (1): Your next attack heals you (Healing: 808 (0.2)).
  • The number of uses on these skills’ effects will decrease if an attack lands of if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed or Invulnerable.

Venom skills
[Devourer Venom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 45 seconds
• Immobilize adjacent foes with a mist of devourer venom and evade backwards.
• Immobilized: 2 seconds
• Radius: 180
• Evasion: ¾ second
• Breaks stun
  • Evasion distance is 400 range.

[Ice Drake Venom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Leap to target location and chill foes with a blast of ice drake venom.
• Damage: 336 (1.0)
• Damage radius: 180
• Chilled: 3 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Blast
• Range: 600
  • This skill uses the Warrior [Earthshaker] animation.
  • This skill plays a [Frozen Burst] visual animation when the strike lands.

[Skale Venom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Throw a skale venom coated dagger that bounces between foes and allies. This dagger inflicts vulnerability and torment when it strikes a foe; and both grants regeneration and cures up to 1 condition when it strikes an ally.
• Damage: 211 (0.55)
• Vulnerability (3): 10 seconds
• Torment (2): 5 seconds
• Regeneration: 3 seconds
• Conditions cured: 1
• Number of bounces: 5
• Range: 900

[Spider Venom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Throw a bomb packed with spider venom that explodes at target location, leaving behind a poisonous field.
• Damage: 263 (0.65)
• Field duration: 3 seconds
• Field pulse: 1 second
• Field poison per pulse: 3 seconds
• Radius: 180
• Combo Field: Poison
• Minimum range: 50
• Range: 900
  • This skill shares its projectile behaviour with that of Thief [Choking Gas].

[Basilisk Venom]

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.
• Recharge increased from 45 seconds to 75 seconds.

Signet skills
[Assassin’s Signet] (passive)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• You gain might whenever you successfully evade an attack.
• Might (5): 5 seconds
• Cool-down: 5 seconds

[Assassin’s Signet] (active)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• The next time target foe blocks an attack, you bleed and deal damage to that foe.
• Assassin’s Signet (1): 10 seconds
• Damage: 302 (0.9)
• Bleeding (3): 5 seconds
• Unblockable
• Range: 900
  • This skill now applies 10 seconds of 1 stack of a unique debuff called Assassin’s Signet to the target enemy. Whenever that target would successfully block an attack while under the effects of Assassin’s Signet, this unique debuff decreases in stack by 1 and that foe takes the damage detailed in this skill’s description. The application of this debuff is unblockable.

[Infiltrator’s Signet] (passive)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Using a shadowstep or movement skill grants you initiative.
• Initiative gain: 1
• Cool-down: 10 seconds

[Infiltrator’s Signet] (active)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Teleport to target location.
• Breaks stun.
• Range: 900

[Signet of Agility] (passive)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• You gain fury and cure 1 condition whenever you successfully evade an attack.
• Fury: 5 seconds
• Cool-down: 10 seconds

[Signet of Agility] (active)

• Endurance gain reduced from 50 to 25.

Deception skills
[Shadow Refuge]

• Cast-time increased from ¼ second to ¾ second.
• Recharge increased from 60 seconds to 75 seconds.
• Pulses reduced from 5 to 4.
• Stealth granted per pulse reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds.
• Duration reduced from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

Trick skills
[Scorption Wire]

• Now also staggers the target for 2 seconds.

[Haste]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Gain endurance and super speed.
• Endurance gained: 25
• Super speed: 3 seconds
• Breaks stun.
  • This skill chains into another skill upon cast-completion: [Jungle Strike]

[Jungle Strike]

• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Deliver a leaping kick to your foe. If you strike a foe suffering from crippled, chilled or immobilize, you also inflict knock-down.
• Damage: 101 (0.3)
• Knock-down vs snared foes: 2 seconds
• Combo Finisher: Leap
• Range: 300
  • This chain skill remains active for up to 10 seconds.
  • This skill uses the Ranger [Kick] attack animation.

Trap skills
[Ambush]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Teleport to target location and summon an attacking thief at your former location.
• Teleport range: 600
• Thief duration: 20 seconds
• Breaks stun
  • This skill’s summon effect now only summons the melee-specialized female thief.
  • The Corrosive Traps (Deadly Arts – II) trait now inflicts its vulnerability stacks in a 180 radius at the Thief’s location when he/she activates this skill.

[Needle Trap]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGE
• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Spring a trap that immobilizes and poisons foes that cross it.
• Trap duration: 3 seconds
• Damage: 101 (0.3)
• Immobilized: 2 seconds
• Poison: 6 seconds
• Unblockable
• Range: 300
  • This skill’s effect has a 5-second internal cool-down per target.
  • This skill now uses a unique model: Tall, bright-green needles jut out of the ground along this line’s AoE.
  • This skill uses the same hit-detection as Elementalist [Unsteady Ground]; this skill will not function if cast directly on top of a target, instead the target must run into the AoE.

[Tripwire]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Spring a trap that knocks down and cripples foes that cross it.
• Trap duration: 3 seconds
• Knock-down: 2 seconds
• Crippled: 5 seconds
• Unblockable
• Range: 300
  • This skill’s effect has a 5-second internal cool-down per target.
  • This skill now uses a unique model: Two wide logs on either ends of this skill’s AoE suspend a wide, grey wire across the AoE’s line.
  • This skill uses the same hit-detection as Elementalist [Unsteady Ground]; this skill will not function if cast directly on top of a target, instead the target must run into the AoE.

[Shadow Trap]

• Recharge reduced from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.

Healing skills
[Withdraw]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: 0
• Recharge: 15 seconds
• Roll backward and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled and crippled.
• Evade: ¾ second
  • This skill now chains into another skill upon cast-completion: [Recover].

[Recover]

• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Heal yourself with each pulse.
• Pulse healing: 1448 (0.5)
• Pulses: 3
  • This skill pulses healing once every ½ second.
  • This chain skill remains active for up to 10 seconds.

[Hide in Shadows]

• Cast-time increased from 1 second to 1¼ seconds.
• Healing increased from 5240 (0.5) to 5560 (0.75).
• Regeneration duration increased from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

[Skelk Venom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Recharge: 35 seconds
• Splash your foe with skelk venom and heal yourself. Allies that attack a foe that is coated in skelk venom gain health and remove conditions.
• Initial self heal: 4920 (0.75)
• Skelk venom (15 stacks; 5 second duration): Foes heal and remove a condition when they strike you.
• Skelk venom heal: 204 (0.2)
• Skelk venom conditions removed: 1
• Range: 1200
  • To apply the skelk venom, this skill uses a bright-green tinted Elementalist [Water Blast] projectile with a 600 range. The player struck by this attack gains the Skelk Venom stacks detailed in the skill’s description.
  • This skill’s projectile can be blocked and/or reflected.
  • A target splashed with skelk venom gains 25 stacks of a unique debuff called Skelk Venom. Players that strike a target coated with skelk venom heal and remove up to 1 condition. Each attacker has a 1-second internal cool-down on this effect.
  • When splashed with skelk venom, a player’s model turns a bright green similar to poison’s visual effect.

Pistol main-hand skills
[Vital Shot] (1)

• Bleeding duration reduced from 4 seconds to 3 seconds.

[Body Shot] (2)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Initiative cost: 4
• Fire a shot that immobilizes and inflicts vulnerability. This attack has different effects based on the condition of your foe.
• Damage: 61 (0.2)
• Vulnerability (5): 5 seconds
• Immobilized: 1 second
• Effect vs burning foes: Explosion damage: 302 (0.9); Explosion radius: 180
• Effect vs disabled foes: Vulnerability (10): 5 seconds

Pistol/Dagger combo skill
[Shadow Strike]

• Shot damage reduced from 336 (1.25) to 314 (0.85).
  • If you strike a foe with this skill, it chains into another skill: [Incendiary Slug].

[Incendiary Slug]

• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 6 seconds
• Fire an incendiary round that explodes at the target location, burning foes and leaving behind a field that damages foes.
• Explosion damage 65 (0.2)
• Explosion burning: 2 seconds
• Explosion radius: 150
• Field damage (4x): 1128 (3.6)
• Field duration: 4 seconds
• Radius: 150
• Combo Field: Fire
• Range: 900
  • This skill’s projectile shares its behaviour with that of Thief [Choking Gas].
  • This skill’s projectile uses the Elementalist [Fireball] projectile model.
  • The field created by this skill shares its pulse schedule with Elementalist [Lava Font].
  • This chain skill remains active for up to 3 seconds.

Pistol/Pistol combo skill
[Unload] (3-1)

• Damage per shot increased from 101 (0.3) to 101 (0.32).
• This skill now chains into another skill upon completion: [Desperado].

[Desperado] (3-2)

• Cast-time: 1 second
• Recharge: 25 seconds
• Dash into your foe and unleash a blast from your pistols that sends your target flying.
• Dash damage: 118 (0.4)
• Dash range: 600
• Pistol blast damage: 386 (1.0)
• Pistol blast launch: 400
• Pistol blast range: 150
  • The dash part of this skill uses the Warrior [Bull’s Charge] animation.
  • The pistol blast part of this skill uses the Thief [Unload] animation for a single shot; the attack itself uses an Engineer [Blunderbuss] visual and audio effect.
  • This chain skill always remains active for 5 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

Off-hand pistol skills
[Headshot]

• Daze duration increased from ¼ second to ½ second.
• This skill now chains into another skill upon cast completion: [Crack Shot Frenzy]

[Crack Shot Frenzy]

• Cast-time: 1¾ seconds
• Recharge: 20 seconds
• Unleash a cloud of gunfire that damages foes and reflects projectiles.
• Damage (8x): 392 (1.6)
• Reflection duration: 2 seconds
• Range: 400
  • This skill uses a conical hit detection identical to Elementalist [Cone of Cold] for inflicting its damage.
  • While this skill is being channeled, a projectile-reflecting barrier surrounds the Thief.
  • The player can move while channeling this skill.
  • This chain skill always remains active for 10 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

Shortbow skills
[Trick Shot] (1) – NAME CHANGED TO: [Volatile Arrow] (1).

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Shoot an arrow at target foe. If you strike a poisoned foe, your arrow explodes, damaging nearby foes as well.
• Damage: 134 (0.4)
• Explosion damage: 179 (0.5)
• Explosion radius: 180
• Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
• Range: 900
  • After-cast adjusted from current to 0.15 seconds.

[Cluster Bomb] (2-1)

• Damage reduced from 487 (1.45) to 386 (1.0).
• Bleeding stacks changed from 1 stack for 4 seconds to 3 stacks for 5 seconds.
• Added a minimum range: 50
• This skill is no longer a Blast Finisher.

[Detonate Cluster] (2-2)

• Initiative cost increased from 0 to 1.
• Bleeding inflicted per explosion is now 1 stack for 5 seconds.
• This skill now has an automatic ¼-second cool-down imposed on it upon chaining to prevent immediate double-tap activation.
• This skill is now a Blast Finisher.

[Disabling Shot] (3-1)

• Retreating leap distance increased from 180(?) range to 400 range.
• Now chains into another skill upon activation: [Tangle Bomb].

[Tangle Bomb] (3-2)

• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Fire a net-loaded bomb at target area. Detonate this bomb in mid-air to release a net that knock-downs and cripples targets.
• Minimum range: 50
• Range: 900
  • This chain skill always remains active for 5 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.
  • This skill shares its projectile behaviour with that of Thief [Cluster Bomb].
  • This skill’s projectile is a bright-green colored Thief [Cluster Bomb].
  • This skill deals no damage or effects upon landing at the target location. The purpose of this skill’s ground-targeting is to allow the Thief to time the release of the chain skill.
  • This skill chains into another skill upon cast completion: [Release Net].

[Release Net] (3-3)

• Cast-time: 0
• Release the net from your Tangle Bomb to knock-down and cripple foes beneath it.
• Knock-down: 2 seconds
• Crippled: 5 seconds
• Radius: 240
  • This chain skill always remains active for the same amount of time as Thief [Detonate Cluster] in relation to its prerequisite skill: [Cluster Bomb].

[Choking Gas] (4-1)

• Radius reduced from 240 to 180.
• Poison duration per pulse reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.
• Now chains into another skill upon activation: [Beguiling Haze].

[Beguiling Haze] (4-2)

• Cast-time: ¼ second
• Recharge: 30 seconds
• Shoot an arrow that releases a gas that dazes your foe. If you struck a foe that was already poisoned, you also daze all foes adjacent to that foe and you gain stealth.
• Damage: 101 (0.3)
• Daze: 1 second
• Daze radius if striking a poisoned foe: 180
• Stealth: 3 seconds
• Range: 900
  • This chain skill always remains active for 3 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

Dagger main-hand skills
[Wild Strike] (1-2)

• Damage reduced from 286 (0.85) to 202 (0.5).

[Lotus Strike] (1-3)

• Damage reduced from 286 (0.85) to 252 (0.75).

[Heartseeker] (2)

• Damage at 100% – 50% hp level reduced from 336 (1.0) to 317 (0.85).
• Damage at 50% – 25% hp level reduced from 504 (1.5) to 462 (1.25).
• Damage at 25% – 0% hp level reduced from 672 (2.0) to 618 (1.6)
• Striking a foe at 25% – 0% hp level now also inflicts 10 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds.

Dagger/Dagger combo skill
[Death Blossom]

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Initiative cost: 5
• Do an evasive attack in a target direction, striking and bleeding foes up to three times along the way. If you strike a foe with 3 or more stacks of bleeding, you also inflict vulnerability.
• Damage: (3x): 201 (0.6)
• Bleeding per strike (2): 5 seconds
• Vulnerability per strike vs bleeding foes (2): 10 seconds
• Number of strikes: 3
• Evasion: ¼ second
• Combo Finisher: Whirl
• Range: 130
• Attack range (radius) for each strike increased from 130 to 150. The total distance traveled when using this skill remains at 130 range.
• This skill is now a ground-targeted movement skill akin to [Whirlwind Attack]. What this means is that [Death Blossom] will now track across a targeted strip of land, attempting to strike all foes in its path instead of attempting to path over a selected target.

Dagger/Pistol combo skill
[Shadow Shot] (3-1)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Initiative cost: 4
• Fire a shot that marks your target if it hits.
• Damage: 202 (0.5)
• Mark duration: 3 seconds
• Range: 900
  • This skill is no longer unblockable.
  • Now chains into another skill: [Shadow Stab]
  • A small [Shadow Shot] skill icon appears over top of a target marked by [Shadow Shot].
  • If you strike a foe with this skill, it chains into another skill: [Shadow Stab].

[Shadow Stab] (3-2)

• Cast-time: 0
• Initiative cost: 0
• Shadowstep to your marked target and blind your foe with a dagger stab.
• Damage: 202 (0.5)
• Blind: 5 seconds
• Range: 900
  • Stab attack animation increased from current? to ½ second.
  • This chain skill remains active for up to 2.5 seconds.

Off-hand dagger skills
[Dancing Dagger] (4-1)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Initiative cost: 3
• Cast-time: ¾ second
• Throw an oversized dagger that bounces between foes before returning to you. Foes that are struck by Dancing Dagger are crippled and bound to you for 5 seconds.
• Damage: 244 (0.75)
• Crippled: 3 seconds
• Bound duration: 5 seconds
• Maximum bound leash range: 900
• Number of bounces: 4
• Range: 900
  • This skill now uses the Mesmer [Mirror Blade] casting animation.
  • This skill now chains into another skill upon completion: [Dagger Draw]

[Dagger Draw] (4-2)

• Cast-time: 1½ seconds
• Recharge: 40 seconds
• Pull all foes bound by Dancing Dagger to you.
• Unblockable
• Range: 900
  • This skill uses the Lieutenant Kholer wire pull animation with a different audio cue.
  • This chain skill always remains active for 5 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

[Cloak and Dagger] (5-1)

• Damage reduced from 504 (1.0) to 336 (1.0)
• Vulnerability stacks increased from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 10 stacks for 5 seconds.
  • This skill now chains into another skill upon completion: [Push].

[Push] (5-2)

• Cast-time: ½ second
• Recharge: 35 seconds
• Knock your foe back with a quick push. If you push a staggered foe, you knock down that foe instead.
• Knock-back: 180
• Knock-down: 1 second
  • This skill only hits 1 target.
  • This chain skill always remains active for 5 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

Sword main-hand skills
[Slice] (1-1)

• Damage reduced from 269 (0.8) to 229 (0.65)

[Slash] (1-2)

• Damage reduced from 269 (0.8) to 229 (0.65)

[Crippling Strike] (1-3)

• Damage reduced from 437 (1.3) to 336 (1.0)

[Infiltrator’s Strike] (2-1)

• Initiative Cost: 4
• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Dash at your foe to deliver an immobilizing strike. You gain 1 initiative if you strike a foe.
• Damage: 252 (0.75)
• Immobilize: 1 second
• Range: 600
  • Uses the Warrior banner [Sprint] attack animation.
  • If you strike a foe with this skill, it chains into another skill: [Infiltrator’s Return]

[Infiltrator’s Return] (2-2)

• Initiative Cost: 2
• Cast-time: 0
• Evade backwards and lose up to 1 condition.
• Evasion: ¾ second
• Evasion distance: 400
  • Condition removal occurs before the backwards evasion roll.
  • This chain skill remains active for up to 20 seconds.

Sword/Dagger combo skill
[Larcenous Strike] (3-2)

• Now has a 10-second cool-down.
• Now steals up to 2 boons.
• Damage reduced from 365 (1.5) to 336 (1.0)
• This chain skill always remains active for 3 seconds, even if it is not off cool-down.

Sword/Pistol combo skill
[Pistol Whip] (3-1)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Cast-time: ½ second
• Initiative cost: 3
• Stagger your foe with a pistol whip.
• Damage: 202 (0.5)
• Staggered: 2 seconds
• Range: 130
  • If you strike a foe with this skill, it chains into another skill: [Malicious Assault]

[Malicious Strike] (3-2)

• Cast-time: 1¼ second
• Initiative cost: 3
• Dash at your foe before leaping and delivering a devastating strike with your sword.
• Damage: 840 (2.5)
• Super Speed: 1 second
• Range: 900
  • This skill uses the Elementalist [Fiery Rush] attack animation.

[Steal]

• Range reduced from 900 to 600.

Stolen Skills by Profession (PvP)
[Mace Head Crack] (Guardian)

• Damage adjusted from current to 159 (0.5)
• Daze duration reduced from 4 seconds to 1.5 seconds.
• Now also inflicts staggered for 3 seconds.

[Throw Gunk] (Engineer)

• This skill now uses ground-targeting.
• This skill now has a “Radius: 180” skill fact in its description.

[Ice Shard Stab] (Elementalist)

• Damage adjusted from current to 159 (0.5)
• Chilled duration reduced from 10 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Now also inflicts staggered for 3 seconds.

[Whirling Axe] (Warrior)

• Duration reduced from 3¼ seconds to 2¼ seconds.
• Number of attacks reduced from 15 to 10.

[Consume Plasma] (Mesmer)

• Cast-time reduced from 1 second to ½ second.
• All boon durations respectively decreased from 10 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Now no longer grants stability.

Stealth Attack skills
[Surprise Shot] (1)

• Damage reduced from 202 (0.6) to 159 (0.5).

[Backstab] (1)

• Front damage reduced from 403 (1.2) to 302 (0.9).
• Back damage reduced from 806 (2.4) to 554 (2.0).
• Now also inflicts 12 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds when striking a foe from behind.
• This skill’s damage is applied before the vulnerability stacks.

[Sneak Attack] (1)

• Each strike now also inflicts 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 seconds.

FUNCTIONALITY CHANGE TO STEALTH FOR ALL PROFESSIONS

• If a player attacks while in stealth, but “misses” an attack due to being out of range, blinded, blocked, evaded, obstructed, or if they struck an invulnerable target, that player gains the revealed debuff for 4 seconds.

THIEF BASE HP

• Thief base hp at level 80 increased from 10,805 to 15,082.
• The Thief’s hp now scales identically to Engineer, Ranger and Mesmer hp levels.

NEW CONDITION UNIQUE TO THE THIEF – STAGGERED

• Staggered foes cannot gain protection or stability. Staggering a foe removes up to 2 stacks of Defiant.
• Staggered does not stack in duration nor in intensity. If a staggered foe were to be staggered again, the second instance of staggered would simply overwrite the first instance.

I was pretty close to just not making a Thief one, but:

Anton’s Assassin

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RR3;0VwVa0V5R-Vd0;9;499TJ-1;05;047A49;2UNV0T;1sV2DsV2D5BD

Gwen’s Manipulator

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFF3l;0VPVz0C7cV-71;9;4JJ9-J06-39-2;309-Ucl6P;1_JH8_JH88s

Mhenlo’s Warden

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7Bxs;1NFV20J3RG-90;9;6TJJ;418A14-58-UN-5;2ZF18ZF185By

Lydia’s Lich

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;08-_;1kHFC0A4ZJVJ0;9;4J99-T57-5;04;359BUNk6;24JF04JF08Bi

Updates to staff, off-hand dagger and scepter.

Mbelch.9028:

A certain response of yours triggered my annoyed post.

You said, “The cast-time might be unnecessary. The 1-second delay even with a 0 cast-time is an ample cue—especially if there’s a floating fireball with a red circle sitting there. Also, it’s very possible to hit targets in 1v1s with a 180 radius attack. You just have to lead your attacker by predicting their movement or use the loads of CC available to you on staff. It requires planning ahead a bit.”

A one second delay plus cast time is thinking ahead WAY more than a bit. Do you know how far people can move in one second?

Since you’re just asking me personally about this sort of change, I can say that nailing people with the first tick of a [Lava Font] when that is buffed to 180 radius with Blasting Staff isn’t difficult. Often times, CC is involved, but we’re talking about staff here; it’s absolutely replete with CC. Moreover, as I’ve already said, running staff in PvP without the Blasting Staff trait is pretty folly. That trait then would increase the [Flame Burst] radius to 240, which isn’t something that someone should miss barring something like an opponent’s clutch dodge or snap movement—in which case, that’s their victory.

An issue with which many people can’t seem to reconcile is the idea that an opponent can ruin an attack with snap positioning or dodging. You seem upset or entitled saying that an Elementalist has to think ahead of an opponent. The goal of this initiative is to make a lot of skills more prone to missing and more dependent on player aim and timing. Across all professions, more skills that require precision, timing and prediction on part of the player using them: that’s the goal.

Mbelch.9028:

For eles and guardians, apparently your decision was we’re, “Almost perfect.” I’m a journalist. In order to use quotations, you must be quoting from a source.

It’s just a title, man. But, I must say that I do use this threads selfishly. Many times, I get into conversations that help me better convey how I truly feel about the various aspects that relate the state of this game. This whole thing is a constant process. Even so, I think that I’m coming closer to a better way to express

Mbelch.9028:

We as elementalists don’t think our class is almost perfect. Can’t you tell by the responses you’ve had here? Or the several pages of changes you proposed to our skills?

Elementalists possess many of the best skill designs in the game (talking about on-land here). Well-cued attacks; post-cast delays on single-hit AoEs; powerful CC that doesn’t inflict excessive damage or even damage at all; a single powerful skill that has a crippling wind-up that could spell death for the user if activated off-handedly without any situational awareness, planning and/or proper positioning; filled with these kinds of skills across weapon sets; this stuff is great. That’s the perfection—that the class as a whole could incorporate so many of these types of skills into its design.

Trouble is, a lot of those skills are focused on dagger and staff. Scepter instead got a poorly-cued burst rotation that wasn’t even that good until Fresh Air came in and decided that it would be OK to strike foes with double instant-cast/auto-aimed lightning bolts every 5 seconds. Focus got a bunch of throwaway skills and a kitten press-to-receive-invulnerability skill. That’s the kind of stuff that we should address.

Why do we have all these skills like [Lava Font] or [Ice Spike] with their clear cues that provide counter-play and then suddenly there is a weapon set on the same profession with a rotation that throws that entire concept out the window? Why should it be seen as a trademark of a specific profession to think ahead of an opponent as you say it is with the Elementalist? That’s not how it should be.

Mbelch.9028:

We have the tools to be a good class with a high team contribution, but not to suit everybody’s style of play, and not to anybody who doesn’t have a high capacity to think ahead and make quick decisions.

It’s a real shame that that’s how some players feel about this situation on the whole. Don’t play this class if you don’t like thinking ahead. In order to take something like thinking ahead away from the worries of the player, you make the Warrior; and many people can agree that the Warrior needs to be toned down in several respects.

We can create a game of teamwork, thoughtful encounters and rewarding play-styles if we continue to promote the best-designed skills in the game instead of encouraging or ignoring the ones that ignore the rules that govern balanced GW2 combat.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Exactly. I skipped it except for the 1st paragraph.

Also, I’ve said this before, but this game needs a lot of work. I’m willing to help, but I can’t make the workload any smaller.

Wondrouswall.7169:

Same. Skimmed thru the rest though. The shortbow auto cast time made me cringe

Soon, you and I can live in a Tyria where Rangers don’t win encounters by auto-attacking targets to death, but rather have to actually invest their time in activating and aiming their other skills.

Morgash.3165:

Flame Burst:
I think your change would make it almost worthless in small scale pvp… sure you could catch people in a zerg but in 1 on 1 or small scale combat where there is not as much distraction you wouldn’t hit anyone with it.

The cast-time might be unnecessary. The 1-second delay even with a 0 cast-time is an ample cue—especially if there’s a floating fireball with a red circle sitting there. Also, it’s very possible to hit targets in 1v1s with a 180 radius attack. You just have to lead your attacker by predicting their movement or use the loads of CC available to you on staff. It requires planning ahead a bit.

Moreover, going into a pvp situation with staff and not taking Blasting Staff is practically folly. That trait would make the radius 240 in width—an enormous reticle with which one should be able to land a hit on most anyone even if the player just haphazardly slapped the reticle on top of a moving target.

Morgash.3165:

Lighting Surge:
Not sure the point of this change other then to telegraph it even more?

Yes. I do kind of
Gust of Air:
I rather have knocks target back and down. Give some ability to try to get distance. So many melee have way to many gap closers on short cool downs while our escape ability’s have long cool down. [/quote]
A knock-back is strong enough since the cone-attack would make it easier to hit and the skill would also be removing boons. Both of those combined make for a very strong attack. Adding anymore would probably be overkill.

Morgash.3165:

Windborne speed:
I don’t mind this but I rather have.

Teleport to target area giving speed to allies after landing.

This would give staff some mobility that it lacks.

A teleport on a 30-second cool-down (possible 24-second) as a weapon skill is a scary thought. A weapon-skill teleport also works to eliminate something like keen positioning as a necessity. Two seconds of Super Speed can allow an Elementalist to quickly reposition or even escape without being quite as unfair as a teleport.

How does this thread feel about making [Judge’s Intervention] a ground-targeted teleport? As much as this would increase the Guardian’s potential mobility, it might goof up a lot of typical combos that some Guardian’s might attempt by pre-casting skills before pressing the teleport button. I mean, the combos should still work so long as the player just aimed the target reticle properly. Not sure, though.

As for the posts above me, I’ve been reading over them and I’m working on a response.

I will take a look at your thread, though, Balefire. It’s the least I can do.

Balefire.7592:

Swagg.9236:

Reanimator (Death Magic – 5; minor)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Gain 5 seconds of Vigor upon leaving Death Shroud.
  • Cool-down: 15 seconds

Necromancers are not meant to have vigor by design.

I will make the argument that the design wasn’t incredibly sound to begin with. ANet wants to make an “attrition” class. They then give the “attrition” class a load of hp, little CC, poor self-defensive measures and effectively no stability. They tell it “Good luck.”

The Necromancer is no more the attrition class than is an old hp sponge boss in overworld PvE/dungeon. People just do a maypole dance around it while the boss whittles away with little else to do. It makes for a very one-dimensional encounter both from the standpoint of the Necromancer and the opponent which typically boils down to “CC the necromancer into the dirt before he fears you forever and/or DPS’es you to death with conditions.”

An extra dodge once every 15 seconds is not game-breaking, and it will allow the Necromancer to eek out a little more survivability. Moreover, it’s bound to exiting Death Shroud which not only gives the Necromancer some staying power in a weapon set of his/her choice, but the proc is then also tied to a charge-up mechanic. The Necromancer can’t go gaining an extra dodge once every 15 seconds if he/she exhausts DS and then can’t replenish Life Force effectively.

Balefire.7592:

Swagg.9236:

NEW TRAIT – Dead Skin (Death Magic – XI)

• Gain 1 stack of Dead Skin every 5 seconds that you don’t take damage (up to 5 stacks total). Lose 1 stack of Dead Skin every time that you take damage. You cannot lose more than 1 stack of Dead Skin each second. When you lose a stack of Dead Skin, you gain 2% Life Force.
  • Dead Skin (1): Gain 300 toughness.

I think this is somewhat unintuitive, but in terms of what it accomplishes, I guess it’s fine.

Why is it unintuitive? Do you know specifically what this trait is attempting to accomplish?

Swagg.9236:

Near to Death (Soul Reaping – VIII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• Death Shroud begins recharging right as you enter into it.

I always see people asking for this, and I think it’s a terrible idea. Not only is it terribly unintuitive, it allows you re-enter deathshroud as soon as you exit provided you outlast the cooldown, which therefore offers no punishment for exiting DS at the wrong time. [/quote]
There’s that unintuitive word again. What do you mean by that? That’s a very subjective word.

Also, what do you mean by exiting DS at the wrong time? I just don’t see that as an argument. Give me an example of exiting DS at the wrong time. Do you mean something like exiting DS when you suddenly see another enemy coming up on the horizon?

As an answer to that: the point of a trait in GW2 is to change the way that a build plays. This version of Near to Death would drastically change the playstyle of the Necromancer by giving him/her more flexibility in DS usage. It doesn’t affect the cool-down at all, it simply gives the Necromancer more flexbility in DS usage; this could translate to increased survival if played right.

Balefire.7592:

Swagg.9236:

Death Nova – MOVED TO – (Soul Reaping – VII)

• FUNCTIONALITY CHANGED
• When you enter Death Shroud, you create a bubble of toxic energy at your location. After 2 seconds, this bubble bursts, poisoning and knocking back foes.
  • Delay: 2 seconds
  • Damage: 314 (1.0)
  • Poison: 3 seconds
  • Knock-back: 180
  • Combo Finisher: Blast
  • Radius: 180

This is the flag ship minion master trait, and it’s perfectly fine as is, since people complain about the zoo aspect, not Death Nova. It baffles me that you would remove this from minion builds while leaving Necromantic Corruption or Fetid Consumption, both of which are never used.

Reapers Mark (Soul Reaping – VII)

It wasn’t a matter of attempting to purposely cripple MM builds, it was a matter of introducing more well-cued, active, hard CC into the Necromancer’s repertoire.

• REMOVED FROM THE GAME

And replaced with? [/quote]
Death Nova was the original plan. That said, I guess I could just rework things based on what you’ve said regarding MM.

Actually, about Ghastly Claws, it isn’t necessarily broken from a LF-gain stand-point since it was described that—ah, nevermind, I’m just remaking it anyway.

Also, UPDATES TO TRAITS. I had an interesting discussion with Kiriakulos.1690 earlier today and I’ve put the results of our talk in its own “traits” post at the beginning of this thread. I’m also looking at reworking the Death Magic 15 minor trait. Any ideas for that? Limiting it to just minions really pigeon-holes it and we should look at expanding its functionality with a full change.

Dadnir.5038:

Well… You wrote a lot of things… Let’s point an overpowered things :

_[Ghastly Claws] (2)

Fair enough. I was actually going to rework this anyway. I’m surprised that nobody called me out on that sooner.

Dadnir.5038:

_Deathshroud skills
[Dark Path]

Absolutely ridiculous, this would give us even less mobility…

Being able to move 900 range in a direction every 20 seconds could be more useful than requiring a target for a projectile-bound teleport every 15 seconds. Target-free mobility is a very powerful thing.

Dadnir.5038:

Your changes on [Well of Blood are really off.

The water field would provide more party support.

Dadnir.5038:

You are just trying to make a new signet of vampirism.

New [Well of Blood] is a party-wide lightly spread counter-pressure buff (so long as players remain in the well, which may or may not be a wise move depending on how a given battle is going). [Signet of Vampirism] is a focused counter-pressure DPS buff for the party that moves with the target.

Dadnir.5038:

[Spectral walk]… I mean are you serious here? Super Jump? PvE gamebreaking by opening door to exploit bug. Gamebreaking for WvW to by jumping over the walls…

This game deserves more well-telegraphed vertical movement. Teleports are nonsense because they don’t provide any counterplay. A super jump is the perfect solution.

As for breaking the game, there are a lot of things that ANet can do with their in-house terrain modifier to very quickly adjust weak points in WvW and PvE. These sorts of things can be fleshed out in the beta test client.

Dadnir.5038:

While I feel it boring when I’m perma lock/cripple/chilled, I don’t think we lack condition cleanses to get rid of them to the point that we need to add this things to a skill that is already really good.

Having a get-out-of-soft-CC-free card is a very valuable skill that I think the Necromancer deserves. Moreover, it’s on a 60-second cool-down. This might promote even more active use of [Spectral Walk] outside of a stun-breaker.

Dadnir.5038:

And lastly [Dhuumfire], best way to fix this one would be to replace it with something that actually help our soft cc. Something like : enhance by 1 seconde every chill/cripple that you inflict.

I’ve had discussions about Dhuumfire and how it’s hated by a large number of the informed Necromancer community. I’ll look into something about soft-CC. It seems like a good idea for something like a GM trait (a build-defining trait).