Guild Wars 2

Tolmos.8395:

Sure, you can grind until your eyes bleed, since every decent karma farming method keeps getting nerfed… not that you have to worry about that, since no one is farming karma in Orr anymore but instead standing in Lions Arch yelling “LFG LFG LFG”.

I can’t express how happy I am that I got my armor while Plinx was still at 100%.

Or -gasp- you can also not. Let’s see…full karma armour is like~250k. You can get 40 jugs in 1 month just from achievements. At almost 8k karma per jug, that’s 320k karma. Look, there’s your karma exotic set. Now, if in that one month you also bothered with random stuff like dungeons, WvWvW, resource gathering(where you are bound to run into a few events), you also made a decent amount of gold, got some mats and extra karma. Oh, almost forgot, if you leveled by doing maps and not with crafting or wvwvw and didn’t accidentally delete all your gold, you’d probably have 5-10g saved up to buy a piece or 4 from the TP with it. But, yeah, you can go grind till your eyes bleed out. After all, games are not about having fun, but about getting everything and getting it right kittening now.

Hellkaiser.6025:

If you feel that your game truly is living up to it’s expectations then fine, your expectations are your own, but claiming “hey we can do anything in this game” is a baseless claim, and it was already pointed out that even a month before release the “out of the box ideas” of how to keep yourself amused in GW2 were being touted, which was a sign that the game was lacking inherently.

Oh, and an appeal to ridicule to cap it all off! classy. when you’re done trolling and claiming that somehow the fact that the game devs aren’t holding us hostage to play their game and we can leave at any time, has any bearing on the games quality,

Then by all means let’s discuss this :P

ps. It was pretty obvious, that the 8million nails was simply to draw parallel with the analogy you tried to make a straw man out of, it seems it’s the only way you can argue however, so yea… not surprising

I also love the idea that everyone should just “leave the game if they don’t like it” because obviously that’s the solution, and people use this argument knowing full well that’s exactly what happened with SWTOR, SGU etc it’s like they have no perspective :S

Well, yeah, if there is absolutely nothing you enjoy in a game, you should actually leave it. It’s not like they will rewrite the entire thing, just for your personal pleasure especially when there are thousands(even 100 thousands) of people who do find enjoyment in their game. It might sound strange to you, but I have intention of convincing smb to play a game they dislike or trying to force them into staying just because more players = better future. I firmly believe that playing a game should be fun above all.

Yes, your “nail” example. I made the point that you can create your own enjoyment if you have a bit of imagination and you, again, decided that there has to be smb telling you what to do. How did that happen? How did it go from nailing down 8mil nails to having a master ordering you around? Was it because you suddenly realised that your example could easily be tweaked against you so you decided to give a foolproof one that accidentally turned out as implying that you are forced into doing it? Which, obviously, you are not. Free will and all….

PS: Just because I find you whiny doesn’t mean I’m trolling. It just means that I read your posts and hear a distinct “waaaa, waaaaa” in the background….

skotie.2614:

I see so the REAL problem just lies with the players because we are not enjoying ourselves. This is true, this is true.

Think I’ll just go pound 8 million nails into a wall for fun now, I just gotta remember to tell myself that this will be fun and I can make it so!

Why wouldn;t it be fun? You can start by nailing in the shape of a flower. Then turn it into a butterfly. Then turn it into a house. A mountain. Etc. Create art with it and it will be fun. Even if it isn’t…how about this wacky idea: don’t do it. Weird, right? Unless smb happens to be holding a gun to your head? Maybe the same person who halds the same gun to the same head when you play GW2? Oh, wait, that’s ridiculous…

Hydrophidian.4319:

@TWMagimay:

I’ve already stated multiple times in this thread and elsewhere that grind is, in large part, subjective. Everyone has a different threshold. What’s assumed is that everyone does have a threshold. When that threshold is exceeded, the gameplay is no longer fun for the person. It becomes a grind.

As I’ve pointed out before, if I decide to play multiple games of chess, am I then grinding chess? No, that’s just silly. Ergo, repetition is obviously not the sole defining attribute of “grind”. So, what else defines it? Lack of fun, lack of enjoyment. If that isn’t at the core of it, this entire dialogue becomes meaningless.

Example: I have a low tolerance threshold for farming. For me, it becomes old, fast. It becomes a grind. At which point, I stop doing it. Others enjoy farming much more. It doesn’t become a grind for them nearly as quickly. However, most will get bored with it eventually. If, at that point, they continue with the activity only for the rewards involved, it becomes a grind.

The question is, does the model of GW2 lead to grind for a large portion, if not the majority, of its players?

With your definition of grind, yeah, ofc it does. As I said, you put ’enjoyment" in there and everything in the game becomes a grind. Actually, everything in every game can be described as “grind”. I can think of a good amount of people who think:
-wvwvw
-spvp
-resource gathering
-karma farming
-dungeons
-ow mat farming
-even discovering vistas and poi(especially in wvwvw)
is repetitive, boring and not enjoyable thus grind.

But my point was that grind is not "unenjoyable"_by definition_ and the only definition provided that suggests so is of a person, not from a dictionary. It doesn’t matter who that person is(especially since he’s a game developer and I doubt he ever wrote a dictionary in his life or has a degree in English philology ), it’s his personal understanding of the word(likely because he, just like you, has a low threshold for farming)

I’m inclined to say it does. Why? Because I’m going to end up hitting that grind wall, and I’m a gaming omnivore, which means I’m easier to keep entertained than many… maybe most (putting me at mid-range on the spectrum would be a conservative estimate). Thus, if I’m going to hit it, it follows to me that a huge portion of the audience is going to hit it before I do. The replay value of the content, as it currently stands, is not sufficient to ward off grind for a sizeable portion, if not the bulk, of the player base.

If you in particular are able to endlessly replay the current content and never get bored with it, great. But I’d say you are an extreme outlier.

If I weren’t able to replay the same content over and over again, I wouldn’t be playing MMOs. I’d be playing a new SP game every day. And that’s the whole problem. You assume your threshold is average and a lot of people would hit the wall before you do. How do you know that? Yeah, you don’t. And it still only works for 1 aspect of the game. The aspect you dislike. What about everything else? How’s your wall there?

And since “enjoyment” is smth we basically make for ourselves… You know by now what you enjoy, I hope. So, why would you do smth that you know you don’t? GW2 has an extremely casual and free gameplay. If you feel forced to “grind”, that’s because you force yourself to do it, not because you actually have to do it. And then you go ahead and blame it on the game. Your own choices are not the fault of a dev team….

Hydrophidian.4319:

@TWMagimay:

If you want to contest the meaning of grind, I would request the following:

1. Any support for your alternative spin on the word: that grind can (and often does) involve fun and enjoyment.
2. An alternative term that represents the concept of: “repetitive game play leading to a goal where the activity of progression isn’t fun whether it not be fun initially or it suffers from diminishing returns over a period of time” that can replace “grind”.

Because that’s actually what everyone’s talking about. Trying to obscure the meaning of “grind” in this context won’t change that. If you want to continue to insist that “grind” can be enjoyed… then, under your view, no one’s actually talking about “grind”. They’re talking about: “repetitive game play leading to a goal where the activity of progression isn’t fun whether it not be fun initially or it suffers from diminishing returns over a period of time.” So, if you don’t want to use “grind” for that, you’re going to have to come up with something else that fits for you.

I questioned the “by definition”-part. Because the definition of “grind” doesn’t actually say it’s unenjoyable. What everyone is talking about is repetitive game play leading to a goal where the activity of progression isn’t fun for that person whether it not be fun initially or it suffers from diminishing returns over a period of time. But if you look at the actual definition….killing the same mob over and over again would be grind. It’s “labourious”(in a way, because I refuse to see labour in games). It’s definitely monotonous, likely mechanical or without inspiration. BUT you’d see people saying they enjoy grinding which would contradict your unejoyable definition of the word. I also find Chris’s words rather…wrong. Because, based on his definition, the entire game is both only grind and no grind at all. Because “unenjoyable” is very personal. If I were to take his definition as the correct one, I’d ask…why is there WvWvW and sPvP in the game? For me, both of those are perfect matches to his words. At the same time, fotm, getting a legendary etc won’t be a grind, because I enjoy those. As a result, “we don’t want you to grind” would be a lie in every possible aspect, because every activity in the game can be identified as grind by somebody.

PS: Hope you get what I mean, cause it’s like 11pm here and I’m half-asleep. I can try again tomorrow in case it’s still not clear.

Pig.5827:

I opened a lot of bags, bought them from 75c-2s.
I spent a lot of gold on them, and I currently have 18 Silver Doubloons.
I recall opening 100 Bag of Skritt Shinies and getting 2 Silver Doubloons out of them.
Opened 100 Bag of Skritt Shinies and got 0 Silver Doubloons.
I lost track of how many I opened, but I’d say maybe 1000-1500 bags total of the ones I linked. (That is just a guess though, I did lose track)

You can see exactly how many bags you bought(and hopefully opened) in your transaction history. Which would give a good drop rate estimate and a general idea of how much you ended up paying per SD.

Anyway, happy you found a somewhat reliable source of SD…I think that’s…good…sort of xD

SirMoogie.9263:

You will find few who consider “laborious” synonymous with “enjoyment”, and many who consider laborious activities unenjoyable (i.e., “tiresome”, “arduous”, “tedious” are synonyms, not “amusing” or “delightful”) . For example,

Speaker 1: I just spent my day laboriously washing dishes.
Speaker 2: That must have been enjoyable.

Most English speakers would take Speaker 2 to be sarcastic. You would be one of the rare English speakers that takes Speaker 2 seriously.

But that is about personal understanding of a word and what that person associates with said word and not so much about the actual definition. Just like some people find visits to the dentist unenjoyable (while I do, I like getting compliments) or people who find getting flowers enjoyable(I don’t because I’m extremely allergic to most).

What does “smb” mean?

And here I thought that with all your “English Speaker” stuff you’d have opened a grammar book or a dictionary at some point in your life. Smb is short for somebody.

There are no “official” definitions. Words are not carved out in nature for us to discover, they are vehicles of communication developed, used, and sometimes codified by communities of social creatures and can vary substantially in their use between communities. In the Guild Wars 2 community, and probably among English speaking MMORPG communities as a whole, “grind” is mostly considered to be an unenjoyable, repetitive activity performed to accomplish a goal. Chris Whiteside’s definition closely approximates the common usage among MMORPG players.

That’d be what we, non-English speakers, call a connotation, not definition.

I didn’t say “by definition”, your charge of misleading is unwarranted.

Oh, so you are not the same person I quoted and directly asked for source… Then why did you assume that role by putting words in his/her mouth? Maybe s/he would’ve been able to provide an actual definition that meets the requirements instead of confusing a definition with a connotation…. Is that what “English Speakers” do?

I like crit heals. So, ammm, +1

SirMoogie.9263:

It’s a usage of the term among English speakers ¹, oft heard in common parlance in the phrase “the daily grind” ². It was also defined this way by Chris in his recent AMA ³.

¹ – Grind – Definition (v.tr. 6 and n. 4)
² – Daily Grind
³ – Reddit AMA – Grind Definition

1. Nothing about enjoyment
2. Nothing about enjoyment
3. Smb’s personal definition, not the official one. Since this is the only one that actually mentions lack of enjoyment as part of the meaning, you should’ve said “by Chris’s definition” instead of the misleading “by definition”.

Deathful Dante.1239:

LOL never said I liked the OP’s idea. I only agree that there is an issue.
IMO, and it is only my opinion, my suggestion and I leave it to ANet to consider and decide whether is it good or not; is to downscale armor and weapons too. And I also think that the gear we drop from chests and foes should be at our actual levels. Materials and trophies and salvage items I think must continue the same. My opinion is nothing but a theory but I think this way lower level areas could still be fun and rewarding.

While GW2 was being developed they said a high level toon would have fun going back. And a experienced player would have fun helping a newbie friend at starter areas. Clearly this is not happening.

Hmmm, in order of appearance:
1. Downgrade weapon/armour: I can work with that if, and only if, it also downgraded repair and teleport costs. Because why would I go there and have lvl 5-10-w/e gear while paying for lvl 80 exotic?
2. Drop gear at own level, salvages at other level: That’s a contradiction right there. Because the items you get from salvaging are tided to the level of the item, so if you are getting lvl 80 weapons, u can’t expect to salvage them into copper and green wood…

You know why that’s not happening? Because you get leveled down. I actually had my gaming partner refuse to help me level an alt because “the repairs aren’t worth it”(almost bit his head off when he said that). Did I mention, I happen to be engaged to said gaming partner? Yeah, my fiancé refused to help me level, because he didn’t feel particularly useful there, he had nothing of value to get(and you can’t have lvl 10 mobs dropping T5/6 mats, obvious reasons) and he’d literally have to pay for it(because the 1-4s it costs to get to some zones as a lvl 80 would take good few hours to gain back from playing on the map itself, let alone if he died).

I, on the other hand, like hanging around low level zones, but that’s because I have this weird gathering fetish… What I would totally go for is…jumping puzzles. Make them like the one in…mount maelstrom?(where you have to finish an event to get inside). Then add some more chests with random spawns(like the gathering resources or the achievement chests with the bugger guys). Have those chests(from JPs and the random) drop the lvl 80 stuff, T5/6 mats so that the lvl 80s have a reason to be there without screwing with the low level gameplay itself. Oh, and we can have actual lvl 80 content in there(like, instead of a lvl 10 champ, put a lvl 80 one there)…seen similar stuff in other games, works pretty good.

Deathful Dante.1239:

Saying “take off your armor” and “buy appropriate armor from TP” doesn’t help. The matter we are defending here is that there is no reason for one to go back to low-level areas, other than to complete explorer.

People not wanting it to be changed must agree that this IS an issue. That ANet DID intend low-level areas to be interesting to go back to. So this IS something that ANET probably wants to “fix”. So that it works as it was intended to in the first place.

As to how to fix we can only suggest ideas. The choice is theirs in the end anyway but I do think they have lots of much more important issues to solve right now.

And how exactly would the idea in OP help with the issue? If anything, it’d make it worse. Adding incentives(better drops and stuff) is one thing, making the risk higher(and at the same time the price in gold higher) is very different and what people do not want to see happening.

Hydrophidian.4319:

Grind, by definition, lacks enjoyment.

Can you quote the source of that definition?

nofo.8469:

Right.

I never made it sound like everyone is running around in full ascended, eventually maybe but not now.

I would be more than happy to do the grind if I enjoyed it at all, I do not.

They said ascended gear would be available through other means, and it will probably require as much of a grind as this otherwise they just made all that effort they put into the dungeon obsolete.

No, the reason I’m not thinking and QQing instead is the direction of the game, actions speak louder than words and the patch notes indicate this game is going in a very grind heavy direction.

Also, the exotic armor sets are available outside of dungeons, how’s that working for everybody? The karma set is alright but its limited in what stats you can get.

edit: They did say a lot of things, yes.

Yes, actually you did. Remember that whole quitting the game because you don’t feel like you can compete without grind any more? Who exactly can’t you compete against? The people in exotic gear? yeah, that you never had a chance to begin with.

The dungeon gives more then just ascended gear, you know… Like, exotic/rare drops, obsidian shards, mats. It’s like saying other dungeons are obsolete, because you can get the stuff they drop from other places as well. Following that logic, everything would be obsolete as long as it’s not the only source of -insert item type here-. Obviously, that’s not the case.

What would that “very grindy direction” be? The introduction of a new gear tier? That would be obtainable throuugh different activities? I wonder if you even know what a “grind heavy” game looks like. Hint: GW2 is so far away from that, you can’t even see it with a telescope from here.

I have yet to meet a player without exotic set, so I guess it is working out pretty good. Oh, btw, there isn’t just 1 karma set, there are a few of them, with different stats. And then there is crafting.

nofo.8469:

Yeah, fair enough, each to their own, this game has potential for you imo because they will likely add more ways to get ascended gear if you are patient enough.

I on the other hand, came here for the WvW and found no progression to be had there, for the guild, server or myself. I do like progression however I don’t like it to be through gear, I would rather server leader-boards with guild/player rankings, benefits to winning WvW matches and some form of personal progression; even if it was titles alone.

You may not feel punished through ascended gear, but I do, if I don’t dedicate a few hours every day to this dungeon (something I do not enjoy) then my character will fall behind and not be competitive in WvW, and for the people who say there is no difference my guild ran small group WvW and I liked to roam a lot, trust me not having best gear makes a huge difference for that.

I must confess I did play the trading post to get my gold rather than do legit PvE, and I found that to be far more entertaining and profitable than running FotM.

If the game had fun ways to get the gear I wouldn’t have left, but as it stands at the moment I absolutely abhor the new dungeon and I feel spending several hundred hours in there to be competitive is an unacceptable level of “grind” in order to be competitive.

Read grind as doing something I do not particularly enjoy in order to do something I do enjoy better.

ie grinding levels, dungeon runs etc. The only differences between these examples and FotM is I found them more enjoyable, they had more variety, and they took less time.

They did say ascended gear will also come for karma(aka, that thing you get in bulks in WvWvW). But I guess “I want the best and I want it now”-mentality is hard to battle. You almost made it sound like everybody in WvWvW is running in full ascended gear and roflstomping you on every corner. While most people don’t even have a single ascended item and those who have more than 1, likely don’t have time to even be i WvWvW to begin with. But, yeah, gotta QQ, thinking is for noobs, right?

1. As above, Blasting staff is just awesome. 20% doesn’t sound like much, but you can really really see it good.

2. Just like in pretty much every game ever, focusing on stats is better than spreading them out too thin. What stats you focus on is not particularly important(though having toughness and/or vitally in there is a good idea if you are havng trouble surviving).

3. Nah, don’t. Solo pve with staff is just fine. So is solo PvP, actually. Ultimately, use the weapon you like and not the weapon people are telling you to like.

4. Usual rule applies here as well. Vitality is better when fighting 1 mob with strong attacks, toughness gains the upper hand when fighting multiple mobs with weaker attacks. I usually run around Orr in power/precision/mfind set and power/precision/toughness set. Do just fine in both of them, but the survival difference is notice-able…sometimes(because glyph of storms on 48s cd is lovely).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

>OP
>wanting easy mode for his Legendary

Balance is in the eye of the beholder. My guild knows the perfect spot to farm Charged Lodestones. We can get 1 to 5 per hour (with MF gear of course). I get unID’d dye here and there just playing in Cursed Shore, and I’ve opened over a hundred of them so far (with 2 Abyss drops among them). Once you learn where to farm the items you need, all you need to do is stay in that area. Rinse and repeat.

And for argument’s sake, I can say that 250 Steel would be hard for me to get, since I don’t usually mine Iron nodes (with the TP being irrelevant).

Wow, so much ignorance in so few words. Everybody knows where to farm xxx lodestones. Because they actually have set farming places. you get a couple dyes a day in Orr? I get a couple dyes a day in Caledon Forest and my supplier gets a couple dyes a day in WvWvW. Heck, people even say you can get dyes from sPvP chests. Silver doubloons are the worst item on any list. With 2×100% map completion chars I have exactly…1 of those.

And that has nothing to do with the topic, because it’s very clear what you need to do to get steel. Aka, farm iron ores. Now, if steel could drop from any node and any mob in the world at 0.1% chance, your example would actually make sense.

CassieGold.7460:

On that then…. the way I see things is that Orr is a bit of a cliche’ theme… they’re Zombies… what do zombies do? They drag you down, crush you under the weight of numbers and nom on you.

Not the most sophisticated beasts in the world… but the way they behave in Orr is exactly what I would expect from Zombies.

Have you ever heard anybody say “Omg, I’d totally love to be attacked and dragged around by flesh-eating zombies! It just sounds like so much fun!”…cause I really haven’t…

Anyway…last night I discovered that the pull-fall mobs can 1shot me with that skill. Yeah…18k hp in 1 hit…I hate Orr.

Creslin.1758:

With staff, you can get perma-swiftness by equipping arcane wave, putting down an eruption -> attune to air (swift from elemental attunement) -> put static field over eruption, trigger arcane wave in eruptions (swift x 2 from two blast finishers), then use air 4 (swift). The swiftness you get from this exceeds the cooldowns so you can actually stack swiftness very high like this.

Or you can also just use one with air and not hit every mob on your way. Can you really imagine running around Orr maps(that are packed with mobs) and pulling off those combos without unnecessary aggro? Cause I’m having a hard time seeing that work somehow… As I said, it’s actually pretty good for jumping puzzles and running around to gather. Not for other activities, obviously, but you did ask for uses of the traits and that is definitely one. Also, it’s a very lazy way to get speed xD

Oh, and it’s a pretty close-ish call when you are actually running through mobs with a fairly good chance at not making it.

PS: I said D/D vs staff, because auras are relatively passive skills as opposed to laying down aoes(especially with the added arcana range, which I absolutely love btw).

Weeeell…
One with air: You are looking at it from a D/D point of view. A staff ele, like me, isn’t exactly swimming in auras so perma-swiftness is far-fetched. I’m quote fond of this trait because it makes jumping puzzles a breeze(i don’t need to activate anything, just hop around like a bunny on speed xD) and for general running around and gathering purposes.
Serrated stones: There was a discussion somewhere about it…an ele was saying s/he could solo maintain 25 stacks of bleed. They were discussing what gives higher dps earth-bleed or fire-power build and last I looked, it seemed like a draw. It’s a very specific trait though and one would have to spec towards cond dmg, cond duration(bleed in particular) to pull it off, but it is an interesting possibility.

Reihert.1509:

250 t6 mats + 50 gobs (later you’ll require 250 gobs for another upgrade) or 1850 relics isnt exactly fun to gather. It is a plain a simple grind.

Why not make a very hard boss that requires COORDINATION and learning a fight that rewards you those items? You know, loot table?

The way it is now, we only have an insane grind.

I dont mind having those 2 ways to get gear, after all, some people that wants to grind or cant take down that hard instance but tries a lot (thus getting 1850 relics) could achieve it.

But game should favor skill and coordination. Not running fractals over and over till you puke. That’s grinding.

Since those items are only needed for running high lvl fotm…what exactly is your problem? To even need them, you need to like grinding fotm. If you don’t…just look at all the other things you can be doing….

SHM.7628:

As far as I was concerned, lost shores was the final nail in their coffin. After they made my level 80 exotics obsolete, there was no turning back. I deleted the characters and uninstalled the game.

Werid, my exotics are just fine, working as they did before the patch. Myabe you should’ve reported the bug before deleting the chars. Or is this the new QQ-trend?

Jairlyn.1429:

Yeah those WPs are so killer that one yellow item vendored pays for half a dozen uses.

I don’t remember getting yellow items in Caledon Forest, do you? If gear gets downscaled, so should the repair costs. Otherwise people would have even less reason to go to those areas. Playing with the strength of a lvl 5 and the costs of a lvl 80 is not enticing or profitable or anything. If it is for you, lvl5 gear can be found on the TP, farmed, crafted. Knock yourself out, but don’t ask for it to be ruined for the rest.

Amen.2630:

then the drops, you said we would get more drops scaled to our levels if we play in a low lvl area, i didnt noticed anything like that, we still get just crap

What level area do you play in?

Kerithlan.1659:

I never said that I’ve never pvp’d in wvw. I’ve only stated why wvw isn’t inherently a pvp endeavor. It is a pve one and as such is categorized as pve. You can go duel players all you want in the jumping puzzle or by random chance, sure, but that is in no way the primary purpose of wvw. World vs World is about killing NPCs and earning crafting bonuses for your world.

But the monthly achievement, ya know, that thing we are discussin gin this topic, is not. It’s about killing players.

You can get your 50 kills by spamming any aoe weapon while barreling along in a zerg. You cannot seriously tell me that random tagging where you’ve barely done anything (because 30 other people also hit 1 at the same time) is in any way a serious, compelling, or even competitive form of pvp.

Because, obviously, you’ve done so much WvWvW that you think everybody can get on any siege weapon at any time they like. From what I’ve seen, there are usually 4-5 weapons and 40-50 people who want a piece of it. But I do have to agree that WvWvW is one of the worst mass pvp events I’ve ever seen. Which doesn’t make it any easier for strictly pve players to want to join in.

[quute]It’s literally no different than joining an event zerg in Straits of Devastation at that stage. If you hate zerging then sure yeah whatever, but otherwise this is the most mind-boggling attempt at “boo! pvp! grr!” flaming that I’ve ever seen.[/quote]

Yes, it actually is different. If it weren’t, I’d be geting the kills in SoD, wouldn’t I?
So, our dislike of WvWvW is “mind-bogging” because…you don’t share it? For you it’s just like pve. For us it’s just like pvp. Same way I can say fotm is just like WvWvW. You get zerged by enemies and zerg them in return. Which would make this topic entirely pointless, because apparently, everything in the game is just like everything else thus people shouldn;t complain about any part of the monthly achievement, right?

Kerithlan.1659:

Have you played any extensive world vs world?

Makes me wonder if you have especially if you never did pvp in it. And how do you suggest one gets 50 player kills without killing players? Just curious.

mavet.3047:

I must be mistaken as well when the very best next tier of armour and weaps, which NCSoft/ANet LIED TO ALL OF US and said this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, can ONLY BE FOUND in the new dungeon – right?? Or am I, and with the majority of ppl complaining about this, just wrong?? If so, please tell me and everyone else what we are missing. Thanks in advance

Yes, you actually are wrong.
1. The currently present new gear in the dungeon is only needed if you want to run that dungeon above lvl 20. Outside the new dungeon, it’s just fluff to show off in chat.
2. The future new gear(as in, when that new gear really becomes a part of the game as a whole) was said to be obtainable through other means. For all we know, they’ll mail a set to every player.
You and the majority of people complaining about it do it for the sake of it, not because it’s actually, ammm, important….

Tommyknocker.6089:

I get you point, and it would make a good suggestion. However, if one category of monthly is stated as PVP and one is not then the latter could and should be considered NON-PvP.

I guess you are not familiar with the GW2-specific terminology. In GW2 PvP doesn’t refer to all player-killing activities, it’s actually used for the structured pvp. If you look under your achievement tab, you’ll notice that there is a PvP Conqueror category and a separate one ofr World vs World. Furthermore, both the daily and the monthly PvP achievements can only be completed in sPvP(every single activity required is only present there) and give only sPvP related rewards(tournament tickets, glory boosters, pvp salvage kits…none of those has any use outside sPvP). While I can see where the confusion comes from, making claims without bothering to do your research is extremely ignorant.

Bluestone.7106:

The DR and similar attempts are to combat bots, not players. Trying to combat bots is with the aim of making players happy. The threads complaining about bots have decreased drastically lately, this may mean something they are doing is working.

I watched a game completely destroy bots and gold sellers without screwing with players in the process, so this argument is invalid. Mostly because a bot doesn’t care about “DR”, legit players do. Cause, unlike said legit players, the bot isn;t actually wasting his time, he’s doing smth else while a program is farming for him.

Oh, and whoever asked about how to make 1.3g in 30 min even if it’s one time a day…farm ori and omnom and then sell. 1 full run is 30-45min and nets about 2g. I can think of a few more ways to get similar amount of gold(more than once a day, but a bit less…though with literally 0 effort) but…last time I mentioned it on the forum, my post got deleted and I got an i-word(it was a perfectly legit farming strategy, not a cheat or anything bad), so…yeah…

ChairGraveyard.2967:

Anyway, I think you’re full of it. I seriously doubt you can come up with any legitimate way to earn 20g “a day” with the current rare drop rates.

There is… It just needs that day to be pretty long. He said 10-20g, don’t forget. 10g is doable in 5-6h(heck, if you have 6 lvl 80 chars, u can get 10g in 3h). And from there on…lucky drops make the other 10(lodestones, exotics, salvaging rares for ectos).

ikiturso.4026:

I join fractals of the mist or what ever its called hater band! Doing dungeons for monthly is ok. 5 of them is not too hard but now monthly has become complete PVE. Totally and utterly screwing pvp/ wvw players. Some people say 45k karma is not much?!? Go to wvw and tell me how fast u get 45k. Ill give u a hint: It will take forever.

Let’s see… It took me 2 days of 2-3h WvWvW to get my monthly thing done(because my guild has too many suicidal ninjas in it). In that time my karma went up by 15k(i didn’t do anything that’d give me karma outside wvwvw). So…that means…1 week for 45k? Yeah, sounds about right. Oh, and I generally have no idea what I’m doing there, just following guildies around like a puppy.

I can’t help but wonder…if the local coffee shop runs a promotion “50% off on coffee if you buy a muffin”, do you complain that you’d rather have a cookie instead of a muffin? Smb at ANet decides what the monthly achievement should be. It will never please everybody. Actually, as long as it has wvwvw kills and dungeons in the same place, chances are, nobody will be perfectly happy with it. Most people who get the achievement force themselves into an aspect of the game that isn’t “fun” for them. The good side? You only have to force yourself for a couple hours. 50 kills? 4-5h total(I got a good hint for this from my guildies: hop on the first arrow cart you see in a castle and aoe the beep out of the attackers…guaranteed to get you some kills). 7 fractals? 4-5h max. Can’t find a group? The game is called Guild wars, how did you miss that?!

Mighty Assasin.3816:

Getting lvl 400 crafting is a joke. Dungeons aren’t challenging.

As opposed to, I don’t know, the extreme challenge and hard work of clicking 5 times and waiting for smth to happen? I could see replacing the ectos(because that is the actual painful part of it all for me) with some item that you buy with achievement points as a good solution.

How about…NO…

redknight.8036:

Oh, for multitude of reasons:

1. Posting on this thread takes 5 seconds as compared to 15 mins of finding grp and 1 hour of completing the fractals itself (assuming it goes smoothly, I’ve got an ENTIRE party disconnected on the final boss before… it ain’t pretty.)
2. People live in different time zone, have different real world schedules.
3. Do you really expect players who have no interest in dungeon runs in the first place to do fractals run that are meant for the hardcore ‘raider’ groups?

Are they even interested in the rewards that supposedly enable them to ‘run further, higher level content in the fractals?’

Face it, Lost Shores added nothing for the casuals.

1. Agreed. Complaining is by far easier than looking for a solution.
2. I’m pretty sure GW2 has more players than there are timezones in the world. But I might be wrong….
3. Lvl1 fotm is meant for who now?

No, but they might be interested in, say, gold, T6 mats, ectos, exotic gear…

Ireniicus.2167:

I just dipped my toe with 8 tries and got one clover. I hate RNG

Count your blessings. My first clover came on try 22. Right now sitting at 5 clovers and around 80 tries…. On the plus side, I got gossamer out of it -.-’’

Erasculio.2914:

No, I understood your points. I simply believe they are wrong. For example:

Obviously not. For example:

Because there is no gearscore in game. That doesn’t mean people are not being kicked from groups because of their gear, or that players aren’t asking for DPS meters and similar things with the goals of being able to grind faster, because they dont want to grind yet they are doing so, and thanks to that they are making the game worse for other players. That’s the kind of impact grind has on the game. And do you know why? Because, in your own words…

Again, I never saw that happen in the game. I only see people complaining about it on the forum. Including the guy that b****ed about ppl using MF gear in fotm. I was never asked to link my gear, if I had agony resist, I never saw anybody complain about smb using MF set in fotm or even about smb not being lvl80.

And why is grind being rewarded more than everything else, so doing it is the faster way to achieve anything? Why is grind so superior to any other plasytyle, considering how negatively it impacts GW2?

How is it rewarded exactly?

Erasculio.2914:

See my comments above. I’m sure a few players like to grind, but if so many people enjoyed it, we would not get as many complaints when ArenaNet nerfs farming as we do.

Grind has a big negative impact in the game. When people say, “We want gearscore for dungeons!”, have you ever bothered to think why? It’s because they want to play with other players that give them the highest possible chance to succeed; and that is because they want to play through those dungeons as fast as possivle; and that is because they do not enjoy what they are doing, they just want to get it over with as quickly as possible. In other words, they are grinding, they don’t have fun grinding, and so they turn to what some people would call an elitist behavior in order to keep the grind as short as possible.

Why is grind rewarded so much, then? Why is grinding something so good that it is the most rewarded thing in the game? This is what should be changed. Grinding is not something good, for the players or for the game; it should not receive the highest rewards in the game, rather the lesser ones.

You absolutely, completely missed every point I made. I’ll try to explain better and in order of appearance.

I have never seen anybody ask for gear score in game. I’ve never been asked to show my gear or asked for it myself(because repairs are cheap xD). That part always feels so unreal to me… And if people are doing smth they don’t enjoy, it’s their own fault.

The highest reward in the game is fun. It’s not some virtual item that shoots unicorns. If you think it is, you should probably reconsider your priorities. Having a legendary weapon is not even close to a “must”. And before you say anything about ascended: they did say there will be other ways to obtain the gear besides fotm when the armour/weapon come out. Anything on that topic is beyond pure speculation. For all we know, they’ll be craftable with double the mats compared to exotics.

Now, how to get a legendary. You can grind your behind off and get it relatively fast. But is it worth it? I dislike Orr and the events in it in particular(I’m proud to say I don’t even know where or what “plinx” is). 2 weeks ago I decided I want The Bifrost. And I’m getting closer to it by the day. I make 5g in ~3h of playtime without grinding or doing anything unpleasant. Farm ori and stuff on 2 chars(~1h) → sell for 3.5-4g. Do a daily fotm run for some mats, ectos and obsidian shards(~1.5h) + gold. Borderlands JP for badges and some more items(~30min). If I have more time…gather some herbs around for a few extra bucks(because I like gathering…weird, I know). Voilà. I had fun and got 1 step closer to the weapon I want. As smb else said, patience is very important for a casual player. If you set unrealistic goals that require you to do things you dislike, you are simply doing it wrong.

Erasculio.2914:

And what is wrong with players wanting to be rewarded for being skilled or for having fun, instead of for being willing to “endure” playing the game?

It’s interesting that a common comment in this kind of topic (or a common “excuse”, if you want to call it like that) is “if you want it, work for it, just like you work in real life”. I wonder, do people who state those comments have a job in real life?

Doing mindless activities over and over again, like farming… That’s not a “real” job in real life. Sure, some people can’t find better things to do due to a lack of better opportunities… But those who actually make careers, who have big jobs? Doctors, laywers, engineers, teachers, and etc? They don’t “grind” real life, they do the work they want to do. They don’t “endure” their work, they have chosen their work based on what they like to do.

If grind is something people avoid even in real life, if the most successful people in the world are not “grinders”, if the biggest salaries usually go to those who enjoy their jobs… Why, exactly, do you want grind to be the thing with the highest reward in the game?

And here I thought “fun” was the highest reward of a game. Silly me, should’ve known a bunch of shiney pixels trumps “fun”. Did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe, some people enjoy “grinding”? Or that maybe, just maybe, anything you do in the game(except spvp) actually gets you to a legendary at some point? The only difference is how fast you get there. And if you’d rather do stuff you dislike just to get those pixels in a bulk asap…maybe, just maybe, the problem lies in you and not the game design?

Glyph of elemental power maybe? Chilled in water, crippled in earth… Grasping vines for a sylvari… But nothing is as good as SoE….

Judas.5432:

I just like how completion is 7/7 instead of 9/9. Are we playing the same game here? Maybe I’m just missing the obvious ‘why’ of that?

Lvl1, 3, 5, 7 etc consist of 3 fractals. Lvl2, 4, 6, 8 etc consist of 4 fractals. 7 requires 2 runs(most people would either keep progressing or stick to an even level) while 9 needs 3 runs to complete. There is your obvious “why”.

-nods in agreement- They could just add a couple insignias as a sub-gift somewhere that determine the stats. Like 5 or so…

Firs of all, to complete the fotm monthly, you need to do exactly 2 full runs of the dungeon. One odd level and one even level)or 2 even levels if you wish). Tell me again how in 30 days you can’t find time for 2(TWO) dungeon runs and how extremely boring it is to run a dungeon 2(TWO) times total in 30 days.

Second, some of you completed the WvWvW part and it was easy bla-bla. I finished my fotm part yesterday, it was easy bla-bla. WvWvW on the other hand…yeah…14/15 right now…gathering the strength to go in again and waste another hour of my time.

Third, ofc not everybody likes doing all the things on the monthly and people often have to go out of their way to complete it. But, puppy it, you have 30 days to do that. 30 whole days to suck it up and do 1 thing you don’t like all that much. It’s not like they are asking for 1000 kills, 1500 fotm runs, 20 000 gatherings or anything like that. They are asking you to dip your toes in the water and check the temperature.

Forth, you don’t have to finish it. Contrary to popular belief, a kitten does not die every time a player doesn’t finish his/her month achievement. Oh, and the players themselves seem to survive it as well(the guy that got hit by lightning? oh, that was, ammm….coincidence!)

Mirta.5029:

how did you solo Lissa to get the skill point she sits on if you need to guard 3 places while doing damage to her?

You can get that skill point from outside. Just need to kill a couple mobs around it and hope the catas don’t hit you before the mobs respawn. I solo’d it once, did it duo the 2nd time…

Anyway…today I happened to be in Malchor’s Leap just as Lyssa got killed. First few seconds, everybody was rejoicing. And them smb said “great, 2 blues and 1 green”, then smb else said “lucky you, i got 1 white” and it just snowballed from there. Apparently the best drop from the event was a BL salvage kit for smb who just happened to finish the daily there. And then I realised why this is the 2nd time ever I see Lyssa killed.

Apathy.6430:

Not really, there’s a lot you can do.

Wall of Reflection for Guardian is a LONG duration skill that completely shuts down pretty much every ranged attack, EVEN BOSSES!

Line of Warding can block off a melee train of mobs for a good duration, as can Ring of Warding and Sanctuary. Sanctuary can actually stunlock enemies for it’s entire duration if you pin them against the wall…and it even works against bosses.

Other classes also have abilities that prove a ton of support. My necromancer can permanently maintain Chilled on a single enemy, while also spreading it to nearby enemies with Epidemic.

Other classes can indefinitely maintain weakness, which makes all non-critical hits do 50% damage, even works against bosses. My Guardian can also maintain Protection on everyone close to the enemies, further reducing damage by 33%.

Just because you’re not playing health bar whack-a-mole while your tank holds all of the enemies doesn’t mean there is no strategy and it doesn’t mean it is just a zerg to the death.

Again. Random aggro → random mobs/bosses → random dungeon runs.

What is health bar whack-a-mole? Is that what dpsers imagine a healer does?

Blaine Tog.8304:

Welcome back.

What can i say..was expecting i-word, didn’t come, figured I’d see how long it takes(if it ever happens).

No one. That’s what “objective” means.

If you admit that there’s such a thing as underpowered and there’s such a thing as overpowered, then it’s possible for the Elementalist to not be balanced. Peoples’ opinions would have nothing to do with that. If there were no one playing GW2, the Elementalist would still be at X level of power.

And that is exactly why we can’t have objective anything on a forum where people are discussing their opinions.

If a class is OP or UP, everybody agrees on it. Thin balance degrees are open for discussion but there is never an objective end to those discussion.

The Patriots and the Cowboys are American Football teams. Would European Football be a better example? I was basically saying Manchester United is objectively better at football than a bunch of preteens.

It’s all relative xD For all you know, those preteens are the future world cup dream team of 20-w/e. You know how the movie Rocky is based on a real story, right? Objectively, Muhammad Ali should’ve owned that wanna-be boxer in no time and yet realistically, the fight went on for 15(i believe) rounds.

I don’t follow football so I actually don’t have any idea of how football fans argue. But, difficulty in convincing someone of your point doesn’t mean the matter is subjective; it just means the matter is murky.

Let kitten a different example: someone is murdered and the police have three suspects. They know for sure that one of those three people committed the murder (maybe the four people were sealed in a cargo container together when the murder happened), but the evidence isn’t clear who did it. That doesn’t mean the victim wasn’t murdered, just that they can’t necessarily convince a jury that it was Suspect A rather than Suspects B or C.

I don’t follow it either, but football fan fights here make the news(yes, that’s how big of an issue that is). Last year a football hooligan made it on the Austria’s most wanted list xD

Actually, it can also mean that the victim wasn’t murdered. Maybe it was an accident? Elaborate suicide? Or just stupidity(there was this article on the Darwin awards site…guy chopped off his own head with a chainsaw to prove he was man enough)?

No, you’re ignoring my example. There’s either a guy with a sign there or there’s not. His existence has absolutely nothing to do with me. I’m merely commenting on it (rightly or wrongly).

Actually, it has everything to do with you. Maybe you are delusional and imagined the guy. It’s still there for you and very real to you thus you are subjectively right. And here we hit my point: If smth is objectively true(or close to), everybody will agree with it. If the guy really is there, everybody will nod and tell you you are right. If the guy isn’t there, everybody will look at you funny and tell you you are wrong. But if the local mental hospital is on a trip, some people will nod and agree, others will shake and disagree. Because some of the people see the guy there and others don’t. Ultimately raises the question….who is the delusional one? The one who can see the guy or the one who can’t? And how do we get that answer? The guy is equally real to you as he isn’t real to me.

Disclaimer: It’s an explanation, not actually saying you are delusional or anything.

That’s not what I said, and I’ve been excruciatingly clear about that.

To put it yet another way, it’s like I’m including my monthly heating bill in my budget when doing my finances. It’s not that paying my heating bill is bad, it’s just that I need to keep track of it when I’m watching my funds.

But do you think you are paying too much for heating?

That’s all numbers issues, not the class fundamentally. Fundamentally, I like Attunements. It’s even fair to have less damage in exchange for more utility. But it’s possible for the precise ratio to be off.

Actually, it is closely related to the class. The dmg is a result of the utility. The cds are a result of the increased number of weapon skills. And whether it’s to much or just right is the personal opinion part of it.

Short version: If a class is objectively unbalanced, people will agree with it, it’ll be obvious by the amount of people playing the class(you’ll know when you are one of the total 5 healers on all 3 servers of a game). Once people disagree on the matter, it becomes vastly subjective, because it comes down to the personal preference and personal expectations.

toidi.1690:

Having played quite a few mmo’s over the years, I was somewhat suprised when gw2 decided to run without a dedicated healer class (closest it comes is ele water/earth build).
Played the game on and off for last few months and I am completely sold oApa dynamic localized quest and map interaction system. gw2 team have got it spot on with regards to dificulty etc.

Sadly though I have just completed several CM runs, and this is where my issue lies. All of the runs seemed to lack cohesion and purpose. The main tank never really tanked (no fault on their part). There was never any real control of aggro and mobs.
All of the runs sort of degenarated into a spam fest. Sure there were times when tactics were kind of useful. But the bottom line ended up in spam killing mobs and trying not to die.

I completely understand that the game has been built around the idea that healers are not a part of the game mechanics and i am in no way suggesting that they should be.
What i am saying is that by the absense of a dedi healer and proper tank, dungeons are merely a button mashing spam fest.

Yup. And the dpsers will never understand the feeling. Their gameplay didn’t change, only ours did. And I just can’t stand dungeons in this game. Doesn’t matter how organised or good your group is. Random aggro → random mobs/bosses → random fight.

Horheristo.3607:

I leveled 10x lv80!!! Oh wait… wrong topic..

TWMagimay.9057 – I get your point, and it is a valid one, but I never understood people who want to farm a specific less valued item.
By the time you farm 250 silver doubloons in this case, how much money could you make instead to buy them off the TP by farming something else?

Or did I miss the point myself here?

I can easily farm the gold and buy everything I’m missing. But I kind of want to farm the items themselves, I’m weird that way xD The only thing I might buy from the TP is The Legend and that’s only if I have everything else sitting in my bank and there is still no scavenger hunt. But I’d rather, you know…not….and with the mystic coin acquire rate, I hope I won’t have to.

Sounds good on paper, but how do you balance it with other classes? You know how every trait line has a weapon or two tied to it for other classes…how do you make the ele equivalent more versatile without ultimately making it superior?

Dogblaster.6713:

And I have leveled 20x 80lvl! Oh, what, that absolutely doesn’t matter, like not at all…but guess…3-933/V…gotta feed it, right?

Stop complaining here .. 2 of my guild mates are going for The Juggernaut too and they have all the doubloons. I bought Doubloons from TP in one evening and believe me, there was like 150 availible when I put the first offers in.

Also .. I am farming with one mate, hes going for Sunrise. He had to buy precursor for 250 gold and now he has to farm 100x charged lodestones, you think hes complaining? No, he knows that is the price for prestigue and unique weapon.

My first plan was to go Legendary shield but after I realized its too cheap I went for The Juggernaut, because its one of the most expensive ones, that means less players will have him and It will be bigger achievement.

If you guys think some weapons are really too expensive and its not worth the farming, just choose different ones or give up.

There are alrady tons of players with legendaries and you bet they would rage if Arenanet would make any changes to requirements, like making it easyer to obtain.

If you want to make them equally difficult, just change those cheap ones and make them equaly hard as those expensive ones but that wont be possible because players just prefer GS, Hammers, Staffs over some pistols, bows, etc

I complained? Where? Can you show me? Also, I’d love to see how you farmed 250 silver doubloons. Oh, wait, you didn’t. You bought them. And no matter how strange it might sound to you, some people actually want to farm the materials and not just gold to buy their legendary. I sure as hell am happy that dyes are easier to get than doubloons…otherwise I wouldn’t even be collecting for it.

Dogblaster.6713:

Guys its normal that weapons have different requirements and cost different prices. ALL depends on supply and demand.

Thats why dusk, legend, Dawn precursors are so expensive on TP. Cause everyone wants them.

I am almost done with my legendary, I went for The juggernaut. All I am missing now is few wvw badges and map completion.

Every price of legendary is set up by players, if greatswords are favorites ones, they will be the most expensive ones. On other side you have one handed weapons, bows, etc 2x cheaper because there is 2x smaller demand for these legendaries.

Thats how economics works … higher demand = higer prices

Just get over it. Stop looking at other legendaries, how cheaper they are and how unfair it is for you. Come on.

You completely missed the whole point.

Anyway, yeah, I also find it weird that they went out of their way to make some legendaries harder/longer to get. There was a topic recently, about a legendary that needs a gem only item…c’mon…a bit of balance would be good…250 silver doubloons…holy…with 2 lvl 80s and stuff…think i got like 2 of those in my bank….

If the Elementalist dealt no damage, offered no utility, and was easy to kill, it would be underpowered. I don’t think it would be possible for anyone to argue otherwise.

Anything else is just a matter of degree.

Exactly. And how can that degree be an objective anything? Who’s the objective person deciding on it?

You’re making my case for me: one football team can be better at the game overall than another. It’s difficult to say which professional team is better, but no one would expect the Patriots to lose to a bunch of 8th graders, for example. The Patriots are objectively better at the game than a random group of 13 year olds. Just because I think the Pats are better than the Cowboys (as an example) doesn’t mean I magically can’t be wrong. It just means the gap is less clear. I’m entitled to my opinion, but as soon as I start to make an argument I’ve moved beyond opinions (as opinions are necessarily not connected to facts, whereas arguments start with facts — possibly we just have different understandings of what the word “opinion” means?).

So, how would you make the argument about the…Patriots(what on earth is that?) being better than the…Cowboys(yeah, I’m European)? What “facts” do you have? And how many times did you convince a Cowboys’ fan that the Patriots are better? Like I said with the band thing, you can keep showing “facts” about scores, rewards, wins, w/e. It won’t convince anybody who doesn’t agree with you from the start(ok, honestly, i forgot what this part was all about…)

If I say “Right now, there is a man standing in front of the Lincoln Memorial waving a sign that says ’I love Fluttershy,”" I may or may not be correct. Someone disagreeing with me doesn’t mean I’m wrong, but nor does me making that statement mean I’m correct.

I may well be wrong about the Elementalist, but I’m attempting to be right. I am reaching for objective truth. Whether I’ve made it there or not is very unclear, which is why I’m attempting to resolve that fuzziness. I would like to know as well whether I’m right or wrong.

Well, as I said, you are right for yourself. There can’t be an “objective” truth when it comes to classes unless smth is horribly horribly wrong. It comes down to -gasp- personal preference. This whole thing reminds me of the “healers are boring”-arguments. Or any -insert class here- is boring. You feel like attunement cd is too long, the f1-f4 skills are too…blant etc. That’s cool and true for you.

No. I find your presumption that you know something exclusive about me quite rude. I like the Elementalist. I have implicitly and explicitly said as much. My opinion, as it were, is that they are pretty cool. You are trying to tell me that that’s not my opinion, that I’m wrong about what my opinion is, which is particularly ironic given the rest of the conversation. And now you’re strawmanning my reaction of umbrage. Apparently being told you suck at something when the insulting party hasn’t anything to go on except a disagreement isn’t a reasonable cause for taking offense.

Look, what this comes down to is I don’t want to be the subject of the debate because I’m nothing here. I’m just a guy you’ll never meet. The only thing we have in common is that we both play the Elementalist class and have ideas about the extent of changes needed to it. Getting into whether I would be better off playing another profession is distracting at best and fallacious at worst.

Did I ever say you don’t like ele? Or that you don’t think they are cool? Why are you assuming I did then? I’ll try it one more time, cause I’m bored… I like tennis. I think tennis is a really really awesome sport. I absolutely suck at it. As in, if I allowed people to film me while attempting to play tennis, I’d have my own youtube channel with fail videos starring only me. Now, what do I have to go on about my opinion?
- on a few occasions you compare ele to other classes you play and deem those other classes better
- you are obviously dissatisfied by basic class mechanics, just look at the post that started it all:
- attunement swapping is not good enough for you as f1-f4
- the lack of weapon swapping bothers you even though you do understand the reason behind it
- you find the dmg low and the vast range of abilities not enough to justify it
- attunement swap cds are longer than weapon swap cds and the arcana tree is apparently bothering you as well
- can’t finish all own combo fields(6 fields, 5 finisher = not good enough)
- skill cooldowns are also too long for your taste
I can’t believe you don’t see it.

PS: I’m amazed that I still haven’t gotten an i-word…makes you wonder if anybody ever comes around here…