Guild Wars 2

Solandri.9640:

X Factor.2641:

That depends now… See warrior ADPS isn’t constant and “passive” like PDPS is

LOL. Clearly you’ve never used a pet on a moving target.

so you would have to look at the PDPS over the time it would take to build up the ADPS. I’m not saying rangers didn’t get shafted on that deal but I am saying that it’s not a straight up comparison.

Of course they’re not a straight up comparison. If they were, they’d be the same thing and there’d be no point distinguishing warriors from rangers.

They are different, and they are going to have differences. But it’s unfair to look only at the features of pets which are advantageous compared to other F1-F4 skills. Warriors can’t lose access to their adrenaline skills for 60 seconds like when a pet dies. Guardian F1-F4 skills always affect the guardian, whereas ranger misses out on pet buffs if the pet is too far. Ranger pets offer a dumb AI target for thief C&D. And as I already pointed out, pet DPS doesn’t scale with better equipment or buffs.

OTOH, ranger pets can take aggro and tank. They can revive a downed ranger even if he’s taking constant damage. The huge variety of pets (compared to other F1-F4 skills) gives rangers a wider access to different effects via F2. Just as pet damage isn’t increased by equipment, pet damage isn’t decreased by going with a bunker build.

You have to look at the whole package, not just those parts which favor the argument you’re trying to make. On balance, the approach you’re taking leaves rangers with a huge DPS deficit compared to other classes – that’s why you ended up with silly things like rangers doing more DPS with warrior banners than their own weapons.

Hence the "" around the word passive. I know people can avoid pets, but people can avoid warrior adrenaline shots too and those are a one hit trick whereas you don’t have to “wait for your pet to power up”. In fact anyone can avoid anyone really… so that’s not a really fair point. Granted the PDPS is reliant on the AI whereas the warrior adrenaline isn’t, but enough about warriors.

In addition this thread isn’t about F1-F4 skills… it’s about rangers and getting a feel for their mechanics and abilities but I see what you’re saying. That’d be a good thread for you to start though if you wanted to press the matter.

I’m not trying to make any comparisons at all and all I was doing with the OP if you look reeeeeally reeeeeeeally closely was breaking down the effect the pet has on the RDPS. I wasn’t saying this compensated and I never said it was better than warriors. All I did was provide the breakdown in a very simplistic fashion. If you’d like to argue the effectiveness of a pet then perhaps you should start a thread about it. Notice how I didn’t mention which pet is better than which other pet. That’s because it depends on the build you’re running. And, as I’ve tried to explain, this is a general overview of the tools the ranger has. This thread isn’t focusing on any one build. There are no points I’m trying to make. I’m just laying out for new rangers what everyone who already plays a ranger knows. If you’re a vet ranger then obviously there are technicalities and specifics and you can tear this thread apart if it would help you sleep at night. But this is for people who are thinking about playing a ranger to get an idea of their GENERAL mechanics and how they work.

Thank you for your comment

Solandri.9640:

X Factor.2641:

RDPS = DPS + PDPS

Now how fair is that to our warrior friends? Not at all so the devs had to split the total DPS between RDPS and PDPS so it actually looks like this:

RDPS + PDPS = DPS

This mistaken belief by the Anet developer(s) is the reason ranger has sucked for so long. Ranger and warrior DPS are:

RDPS = DPS + PDPS
WDPS = DPS + adrenaline_DPS

Basically, ranger DPS should be the same as the DPS of any other profession. The pet’s DPS should be the same as the DPS of other professions’ F1-F4 abilities. (Actually, it’s the overall utility which should be roughly equal, since some F1-F4 abilities don’t contribute just DPS).

Also note that adrenaline DPS, shatter DPS, initiative DPS, etc. all scale with better equipment and buffs. Pet DPS does not scale with equipment, and only scales with buffs if the ranger takes the Fortifying Bond trait (the 5-person limit on AOE buffs means the pet never gets a group buff unless this trait is taken). So ranger DPS suffers from that handicap as well.

That depends now… See warrior ADPS isn’t constant and “passive” like PDPS is so you would have to look at the PDPS over the time it would take to build up the ADPS. I’m not saying rangers didn’t get shafted on that deal but I am saying that it’s not a straight up comparison.

Fluffball.8307:

No me gusta…

Okay… We know Rangers are survivable and about their DPS… so how do I play them?
The ranger, unlike pretty much every other class in GW2… is a very selfish class. What do I mean by that? I mean that while you might have Guardians and Warriors buffing allies or Ele’s and Mesmers providing swiftness (they can do that right? dunno I’ve never played a mesmer… but they can port allies too so there’s that) or Thieves and Engi’s providing stealth, the ranger really only has one skill that can be used to help allies… Healing Spring. Sure if you throw down a Bonfire they can use that for a fire field or if you trait Spotter they get the precision buff but in terms of direct assistance, rangers don’t bring much to the table.

This isn’t bad! This just means that rangers have more tools at their disposal to ensure their own survival and safety. This means that rangers can not only provide bow coverage in a large group, they can also go out on their own and do their own thing without changing their build too much (unless of course you go full glass but even then I’ve seen rangers take down a few people at a time).

One ranger build is usually versatile enough to cover a few things… usually.

Sidebar
Ranger’s are also very good at inflicting conditions… maybe not as good as Necros or Engis… but they’re good, it may be something you may want to consider when playing your ranger…

So now what?
Well the following are builds that you may want to look up if you’re searching for a new build to try. Now that you know the ranger stuff pay attention to the skills in the builds and don’t be scared to tweak things in the build if something better would suit your playstyle.

The Builds Are As Follows:
Spirit Ranger/Condition Ranger
Bunker Ranger
Trapper Ranger
Glass Cannon Ranger
Beastmaster Ranger

Test them out, modify them and find the one that suits you best. If other experienced rangers have input or criticisms I encourage you to share them to educate our ranger brethren to get them more comfortable with the class as a whole and not specific builds.

The Survivability of a Ranger
So what makes rangers appealing in sense of survivability? If you’ve played GW1 you’ll recall there was a Monk class that did all the healing so you didn’t have to be so concerned about keeping yourself alive. In GW2 we know better so what is their “shtick”? Warriors and Guardians can take more hits than Rocky Balboa, thieves are invisible and sneaky, even mesmers are essentially moving copy machines which can make them pretty elusive. So what makes the ranger survivable? What are its perks in that department?

Turns out rangers are like the Kings of Evasion. Sure they can’t poof in and out of stealth like thieves but they don’t have to. They can evade like nobody’s business. They have 2 sword skills that have evades (1 skill has 2 in it), 1 dagger skill with an evade, 1 shortbow skill with an evade, heck even their harpoon #5 skill is an evade! On top of that they have 3 seconds of stealth from the longbow #3 skill and now with the september buff to rangers the #3 skill on the gs I believe is also an evade. Don’t even get me started on their blocks (gs, axe…) but yeah, in addition to your two adrenaline evades… rangers are pretty elusive folk.

Now you can always boost your toughness and/or vitality stats for more survivability but these skills are the bread and butter of the ranger’s “staying alive” factor. Use them!

I peruse the forum from time to time and I see a lot of “Build” threads under specific classes. This is all well and good but if you don’t know how to play the class in general, either the build isn’t going to help you all that much or you won’t be getting the biggest “bang for your buck” when it comes to stats and what the build can do. Say for instance I want to play an elementalist. I look up how to play an elementalist and get all these awesome builds but no real “these are what ele’s can do” kind of things. Of course a lot of it comes with experience, L2P, trial-and-error, and all that mess, but it does help to know what the class has at its disposal in regards to how it can be played. So this is an overview on rangers and remember… ask not what your ranger can do for you, but what you can do with your ranger.

The Class Perk
Pets were the class perk of GW1 and they are for GW2 as well for our ranger friends. What does this mean? Well it means that your pet is doing some of your damage output. This makes logical sense in a developing and designing sense for balance… allow me to demonstrate. TO THE DRAWING BOARD!!!!

The Drawing Board
So let’s begin by taking the DPS (damage per second) of say… a warrior. Very high DPS and tanky build when it needs to be. If we write out the DPS as an equation it would look something like this:

DPS = DPS

Pretty straightforward right? The output DPS of the warrior is equal to the total DPS done by the warrior. Now if the ranger didn’t have a pet it’s DPS equation would be the same as the warrior right? Makes sense… so what happens when the pet comes into play? Now not only do you have RDPS (Ranger DPS) but you have PDPS (Pet DPS) as well! HOLD THE PHONE, if the ranger DPS is equal to the total DPS… then what happens to the pet? This is where the balance comes into play… the plot twist is… the RDPS does NOT equal the total DPS. Don’t believe me? Take a look:

RDPS = DPS + PDPS

Now how fair is that to our warrior friends? Not at all so the devs had to split the total DPS between RDPS and PDPS so it actually looks like this:

RDPS + PDPS = DPS

and now you’re getting the total DPS split between the pet and the ranger. So really the ranger is only doing a fraction of it’s total DPS. Now, there are ways to increase the RDPS so that you don’t have to rely on the AI of your pet to compensate… but usually increasing your RDPS too much leaves you pretty squishy. A nice balance is usually required for a successful and versatile build for a ranger. If you don’t want to rely on your pet as much, give yourself a bit more Power. If you’re okay with your pet doing some damage then give yourself something else and consider traiting into Beastmastery.

Jeknar.6184:

X Factor.2641:

I’m not sure what the going price on Soldier’s gear is because, like I said, I don’t use PVT but other quality PVT gear (i.e. Sentinel) is pretty pricey (at least the last time I checked which was about probably a month ago) especially compared to other gear. Now if you’re a rich and wealthy player it’s all trivial but as far as gear goes, yes PVT can be pricey.

Sentinel (VTP) is horrendously expensive because the only way to aquire them is buying with guild commendations… Soldiers is cheaper because you can just buy soldiers gear with alternative currencies like Karma or Badges+Gold.

Learn something every day I guess… Well then get some GOOD yet cheap PVT gear which I’m beginning to understand is cheaper than I previously thought. Thank you for the clarification

Ben K.6238:

X Factor.2641:

PVT tends to be somewhat pricey

Are you serious? PVT insignia are cheaper than anything on the market but the rubbish like Settler’s etc.

I’m not sure what the going price on Soldier’s gear is because, like I said, I don’t use PVT but other quality PVT gear (i.e. Sentinel) is pretty pricey (at least the last time I checked which was about probably a month ago) especially compared to other gear. Now if you’re a rich and wealthy player it’s all trivial but as far as gear goes, yes PVT can be pricey.

These are all really good suggestions which is what this thread is about, good stuff, newbies take notes class is in session

Fuzzion.2504:

Tip 8

Wear PVT

PVT tends to be somewhat pricey for the obvious reasons that it’s the “go-to” WvW gear but yes if you have the moneys, get some solid PVT gear.

P.S. I don’t run PVT… I run P/T/HP or T/HP/CD

To put this to rest right now, this thread is not for WvW vets, hence the title of the thread. This thread is for people who are just testing the waters in WvW or getting their toes wet on how to survive in WvW or even EotM for that matter… so let’s begin.

1) Know your Build: Essentially you need to understand what your build is capable of. If you’re roaming and you know your build can hold its own against one to two people, then when you see three or four you may need to look for the nearest control point in your team’s possession and dip which brings me to my next point.

2) Map Awareness: Map awareness isn’t something exclusive to commanders. Constantly be checking your map and knowing what got taken recently and where your nearest capture points are for a retreat if needbe. There are even apps so you can check RI on these points in WvW and I’d recommend getting one if you are able.

3) Know where your Zerg is: If you know where your zerg is you are able to circulate and revolve around them as close or as far as needbe for assistance.

4) Don’t overexert yourself: This coincides with knowing your build but don’t think that because you won the last 7 1v1’s you’ll be able to take on a 2v1 of two people you previously beat with no problem. If people see you a second, third, or any consecutive time they’ll remember you beating them and try and adapt to your build. Don’t assume every victory will be the same.

5) Don’t get “pilot-vision”: The concept of “pilot-vision” or “pilot-sight” is that military pilots would become so focused on their target that they would literally run into it and blow up. Don’t focus so much on your targets that you ignore the fact that the Control Point just south of you was capped by a 50 man zerg and they are likely to be heading your way. Don’t chase a target into a control point that they control either unless you know you are capable of handling the situation.

6) Have a Speed Buff that you can switch out: Anyone will tell you that, in WvW, speed is key. Likewise, for mobility purposes, you would do well to have a speed boost with you to get away and avoid people who would otherwise smite you. When you see a potential target, however, you may want to swap that buff skill for something else if it is just a skill. This is something not a lot of people do because they forget but, before combat, if you can swap a speed skill for another more effective utility skill DO IT. It will give you more chance of winning in your fight and surviving which is what this thread is all about.

7) Stick with the zerg: There may come a time when having 3 fps all the time in WvW doesn’t appeal to you but for starters, if you’re still unsure of the mechanics of WvW, there is power in numbers and I’d recommend sticking with the commander and the zerg. This is an independant tip as the previous 6 can be with the zerg and without.

These 7 tips, which probably seem trivial or elementary to vets, are a solid start to get the newer people who are thinking about WvW to become formidable fighters for their server. If any other vets have other tips that are general enough for all classes by all means share them.

EDIT: One last… non-conventional tip is watch your fps or pay a passive mind to it. One of the things I do as a commander, if we don’t have eyes on an enemy zerg, I’ll watch my fps. If it plummets I know it’s about that time to start dropping AC’s and calling for buffs and stacks. Your fps is your unorthodox “zerg radar” so if it drops and you’re not surrounded by a substantial amount of people, 9 times out of 10 it’s time to dip fast.

I had posted this in response to someone complaining about the new ranger buff and having to fight a party of rangers. I explained that fighting a party of anything the same (Stun-lock Warriors, Shatter Mesmers, etc…) would be hard but you have to know how to play.

I’ve had my ranger as my main and ran with just about every build there is. I know what works and what doesn’t and what counters what which is why I don’t run with lb even after patch. I tried it for a few hours but realized how easily it could be countered and went back to my old build I modified off an existing one. Anyway here is a synopsis of my analysis of these eager people who want to try the new machine gun (MG) ranger and don’t really know the mechanics. In the other thread I go into detail because I’ve posted more but this post sums up the combat breakdown…

IMO if you had a guard or an ele in your party… after seeing that the other party consisted of all rangers (for the most part minus the warrior you mentioned) I have no idea why they didn’t pop Wall of Reflection or Magnetic Aura.

It’s things like these that you need to think about. Let me give you a quick rundown on what a ranger is going to do if they’re running Machine Gun Build (MG)…

First they’ll spend the first few seconds of the fight buffing up, likely with Rampage as One and maybe even Quickening Zephyr if they’re feeling extra speedy. Then they’ll RF you. If you haven’t given up on closing the distance they’ll knock you back. You’ll try and close the distance and they’ll stealth somewhere else where they can RF you again.

Almost every kiddie I’ve ran into roaming follows this simple pattern. Once you realize that’s the “blueprint” of their playstyle (obviously there are some variations and they might improvise if they aren’t completely brain dead zombies following the meta) it’s not terrible to counter.

For guard or ele, like I mentioned, when you see a ranger buffing up you know RF is coming soon so that would be a good time to pop WoR or Magnetic Aura. After RF is over you close the distance and wait to dodge roll forward until they try and knock you back. That is two wasted skills for the ranger right off the bat. Only thing they can do left is stealth and what do we all do during our enemy’s stealth? Swing madly at the air until they pop up somewhere else. MG rangers are only going to have 3s of stealth so once they pop up again you should have some time to close the distance and get a few hits in again before they pop RF again which you will have at least one if not two dodge rolls at your disposal.

The only real game changing variation is if they have Entangle instead of RaO which you’ll be able to tell right away when they buff up if they have it or not. If they Entangle you (it’s only 5s now) and if you get stuck (because it is possible to evade), pop a heal skill and be ready to roll right out of it because they’ll use that to RF you while you’re immobile.

Every skill for the ranger has a counter. Just gotta figure out what it is.

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

Well of course if you go up against a team of lb machine gun rangers you’re going to have a bad day, but that’s the same for just about any class. You’d also be having a bad day if you went up against a team of Stun-lock Warriors or Shatter Mesmers or even a team of Stealth Thieves. That’s not a very good foundation of argument because of course that’d be unfair as it would with any other class.

I second that.The only possible thing is the warriors,but they got nerfed and now it is way easier(still formidable).

IMO if you had a guard or an ele in your party… after seeing that the other party consisted of all rangers (for the most part minus the warrior you mentioned) I have no idea why they didn’t pop Wall of Reflection or Magnetic Aura.

It’s things like these that you need to think about. Let me give you a quick rundown on what a ranger is going to do if they’re running Machine Gun Build (MG)…

First they’ll spend the first few seconds of the fight buffing up, likely with Rampage as One and maybe even Quickening Zephyr if they’re feeling extra speedy. Then they’ll RF you. If you haven’t given up on closing the distance they’ll knock you back. You’ll try and close the distance and they’ll stealth somewhere else where they can RF you again.

Almost every kiddie I’ve ran into roaming follows this simple pattern. Once you realize that’s the “blueprint” of their playstyle (obviously there are some variations and they might improvise if they aren’t completely brain dead zombies following the meta) it’s not terrible to counter.

For guard or ele, like I mentioned, when you see a ranger buffing up you know RF is coming soon so that would be a good time to pop WoR or Magnetic Aura. After RF is over you close the distance and wait to dodge roll forward until they try and knock you back. That is two wasted skills for the ranger right off the bat. Only thing they can do left is stealth and what do we all do during our enemy’s stealth? Swing madly at the air until they pop up somewhere else. MG rangers are only going to have 3s of stealth so once they pop up again you should have some time to close the distance and get a few hits in again before they pop RF again which you will have at least one if not two dodge rolls at your disposal.

The only real game changing variation is if they have Entangle instead of RaO which you’ll be able to tell right away when they buff up if they have it or not. If they Entangle you (it’s only 5s now) and if you get stuck (because it is possible to evade), pop a heal skill and be ready to roll right out of it because they’ll use that to RF you while you’re immobile.

Every skill for the ranger has a counter. Just gotta figure out what it is.

UnitedChaos.8364:

jcbroe.4329:

I think everybody needs to step back, take a moment, and watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

And remember that Rapid Fire, based on the video, IS the E. Honda slap.

This is the best thing ever posted. If only more players had this mentality.

This… is good

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

You didn’t offend me but this is a good lesson that you “can’t judge a book by it’s cover”. I roam in wvw, it’s all I do really when I’m not cmd-ing and, while I have noticed the increased power handed to the lb rangers… all it really does it make it more fun to fight and inevitably kill them.

Rangers are amazing in pve, no one denies that, and 1v1 they have always been pretty good at if you know what you’re doing. All the lb buff really does is make the Zerg runners strong enough to have an impact on the zerg… but even as a cmd you end up finding ways to counter their proposed “OP-ness”.

While I agree with you that accepting bigger challenge is nice and all,When these things break the game, for example,did a tpvp match yday against 4 rangers and guard we were beaten and me and the thief always got picked out by RF’s cause you dodge/avoid one RF you get another one on you and dont let me talk about when they all RFing at you,I dont want this to continue.

Well of course if you go up against a team of lb machine gun rangers you’re going to have a bad day, but that’s the same for just about any class. You’d also be having a bad day if you went up against a team of Stun-lock Warriors or Shatter Mesmers or even a team of Stealth Thieves. That’s not a very good foundation of argument because of course that’d be unfair as it would with any other class.

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

Oh this is funny…

What strikes me as even funnier is that even some ranger players are saying things like “Good rangers even know Machine Gun Ranger is too OP”… that’s funny. Laugh with me quick, hahahaha.

Anyway, my ranger is my main. Created him a few weeks after release and was my first toon. A few months into playing him I realized just how much the how for the ranger sucked compared to other class builds.

Now who is QQing? ranger wasnt “suck” in compare to others,he was decent any good ranger player would tell you that. so please Laugh with me quick,hahahahahaha.

Can’t help but smile at how you cleverly tried to take my quote out of context. If you would have had the patience to continue reading you would note that I continue to say I still use him and have no problems with the ranger even before patch. But if you seriously think that rangers were as good as any other class… well you need to ask no one other than the wvw-ers what they thought of ranger viability.

Also you will note (if you would have bothered to read) that I said my ranger eats other classes for breakfast… but I mean if you think I’m complaining about that then I’m not sure you understand how the game works.

But yes before rangers were “underprivelaged” and now… well now people are just a little hurt in the rear because lb rangers aren’t the squishy powerless targets they used to be… Now they’re just squishy targets… That I still eat for breakfast

P.S. Being “decent” is not the same as being as good as any other class so by definition you are agreeing that rangers were underpowered compared to other classes..

First of all,sorry if I offended you in some way.Secondly,I indeed didnt bothered to read all of your essay since the first 3 sentences pretty much gave me an overall look at you.

About wvw,you should ask wvw-ers roamers in about a week,what are thier thought about the sniping machine-gunners that roam now instead of every other class.I dont need to be a prophet to tell you the answer.

I do agree that rangers were on the VERY LOW food chain,but it dosnt mean Anet should bump them to the top of the food chain in instant.They waaay capable of killing any proffesion in matter of seconds,I dont care how much the other guy is skilled in his game,fact is that the dmg output of a ranger>>>>>>>>>thief which is stupid,cause thieves are squishiest and by anet words:“proffesion who have lots of dmg output will have less durability”
Anet and thier big words

You didn’t offend me but this is a good lesson that you “can’t judge a book by it’s cover”. I roam in wvw, it’s all I do really when I’m not cmd-ing and, while I have noticed the increased power handed to the lb rangers… all it really does it make it more fun to fight and inevitably kill them.

Rangers are amazing in pve, no one denies that, and 1v1 they have always been pretty good at if you know what you’re doing. All the lb buff really does is make the Zerg runners strong enough to have an impact on the zerg… but even as a cmd you end up finding ways to counter their proposed “OP-ness”.

Sandrox.9524:

X Factor.2641:

Oh this is funny…

What strikes me as even funnier is that even some ranger players are saying things like “Good rangers even know Machine Gun Ranger is too OP”… that’s funny. Laugh with me quick, hahahaha.

Anyway, my ranger is my main. Created him a few weeks after release and was my first toon. A few months into playing him I realized just how much the how for the ranger sucked compared to other class builds.

Now who is QQing? ranger wasnt “suck” in compare to others,he was decent any good ranger player would tell you that. so please Laugh with me quick,hahahahahaha.

Can’t help but smile at how you cleverly tried to take my quote out of context. If you would have had the patience to continue reading you would note that I continue to say I still use him and have no problems with the ranger even before patch. But if you seriously think that rangers were as good as any other class… well you need to ask no one other than the wvw-ers what they thought of ranger viability.

Also you will note (if you would have bothered to read) that I said my ranger eats other classes for breakfast… but I mean if you think I’m complaining about that then I’m not sure you understand how the game works.

But yes before rangers were “underprivelaged” and now… well now people are just a little hurt in the rear because lb rangers aren’t the squishy powerless targets they used to be… Now they’re just squishy targets… That I still eat for breakfast

P.S. Being “decent” is not the same as being as good as any other class so by definition you are agreeing that rangers were underpowered compared to other classes..

Oh this is funny…

What strikes me as even funnier is that even some ranger players are saying things like “Good rangers even know Machine Gun Ranger is too OP”… that’s funny. Laugh with me quick, hahahaha.

Anyway, my ranger is my main. Created him a few weeks after release and was my first toon. A few months into playing him I realized just how much the bow for the ranger sucked compared to other class builds. I dropped the lb and never looked back. I’ve ran just about every build there is for the ranger and even created a few of my own. I ran a GC build for a while, a BM build, a spirit ranger, you name it I’ve probably ran it at some point. Of all the classes it’s the only one I would consider myself a master in simply because I spent so much time with it I never had time for another class. I’m currently leveling up a guard and have no idea how to play him yet because I’ve never messed with heavies before.

Anyway, I’ve been running the same build for a few months now, one I modified from one I found, a hybrid creation if you will that eats just about any class for breakfast. And once the patch notes came out about how the ranger was going to be buffed I thought I might try out the lb again… Well the patch came and I went full glass, specced 6/6/x/x/x just like everyone else who was peeing themselves over this buff (because let’s face it, almost everyone has created a ranger) and you know what? After a few hours of play I put down the bow and went back to my old build.

I did this for two reasons, 1) it’s just not my play style and 2) being as “well-versed” as I am in the ranger profession (I’d even call myself a ranger connoisseur if such a thing existed) I realized what it would take to kill such a build and realized it actually wasn’t that hard.

This brings me back to my laughing session about how “good rangers” know the patch buff makes the GC LB build OP. If you were truly good you’d know your weakness and know what it takes to bring it down.

Another tidbit, my hybrid build can make mincemeat of GC LB rangers… And I don’t run one. It makes me smile when they get mad and surprised that I can do that.

After all this time of negligence and being the laughingstock and target of many wvw-ers people are really going to complain about rangers getting a buff for a weapon that is supposed to be the specialized weapon for the ranger? Interesting…

Personally I don’t care if the lb gets nerfed because, like I said, I still don’t run with one, but you people who are complaining because you have to adapt your perfect build to a little change because you never paid attention to it before are just unfortunately misguided. If your character was good at everything well then you could win wvw by yourself and anyone with your build. Each class and build has it’s purpose, for instance mine is great at roaming and ok at running in a zerg which is why I usually eat other roamers for breakfast… without any milk. Wait for the “shiny” to die down a bit on the ranger buff and wait for people to learn how to counter them (you all may want to spend some time with your toons to figure out how to not “get totes rocked by #2 and it’s so unfair”) and I promise the eager “fair weather fan” children will stop playing only that build because they’ll get frustrated that their “totes awesome” and “OP” build is being easily countered…

That’s my two cents anyway.

Chris (Christopher, C-Dog, Christoph, C-Dizzle, whatever they call you),

I posted this earlier but people disregarded it so I’ll post it here since you seem to be actively checking this thread (very ballsy coming into the lion’s den like that but I admire it)

Let me start by saying I love GW2. It took me a while to get used to it since I was a big fan of GW1 and, when GW2 came out, I realized they were very different. I love the WvW and the Living Story and the Dungeons and all that stuff. Nice job Devs!
I am starting to notice however that people, myself included, are starting to look for something more, something bigger that you can add to the game. I have two suggestions for Long-Term projects for you guys that could keep this game alive and thriving.

I realize these would be Long-Term projects and if you guys see this post and decide to give it a try, I realize this won’t be done by next week or maybe even next feature pack, but it’s just something for you guys to think about and maybe give a try.

1) So one of the things that was so great about GW1 that kept a lot of the original Prophecies players playing for so long is the fact that you came out with huge expansion campaigns (Factions, Nightfall, and the EotN expansion). In GW2 I’ve read that Elona has been completely cut off due to the rising of Palawa Joko and a dragon in the Crystal Desert (Kralkatorrik). It would be really cool to see a campaign about pushing into the Crystal Desert (maybe killing Kralkatorrik) and fighting Palawa Joko in Elona thus opening up Elona to GW2 players again.

I’m not sure what happened to Cantha although from what I’ve read it seems like Zhaitan had cut off access to Cantha and the Ministry of Purity had kind of made them a little xenophobic (btw I first saw that word in the GW Prophecies manual concerning the Stone Summit Dwarves) so maybe you guys might look into, now that Zhaitain is dead for most players, moving into Cantha to reunite with the other races.
Food for thought, that’s a tall order but I know people have been breathing down your neck about something big and this could be it.

I know the current Living Story is kind of the exact opposite direction map-wise of Cantha and Elona but it would be real simple I’d imagine, after Mordremoth, if you did something with Kralkatorrik in the Crystal Desert with a new Living Story and then you could tackle the tall order of a new campaign into Elona.

2) The other thing that could be a big change is regarding WvW. In my humble opinion WvW is one of the most dynamic things about GW2 and I love it. The one thing that is starting to disappoint me or turn me away to Edge of the Mists is the redundancy of the maps. Now I know people have said “Change the maps” before but hear me out.

Blue Team in EotM is Frostreach. So maybe you could make their home BL a tundra setting or more snowy “Shiverpeak-y” type feel to it.

Red Team in EotM is Badlands. So perhaps their BL could be more of a “Desert-y” Crystal Desert (which could be available if you created new expansion campaigns wink wink) feel.

Green Team in EotM is Overgrowth so perhaps their BL could be more of a jungle-y, forest-y type feel? Maybe to imitate the Magumma Jungle scenery or something of that nature?

EB is fine as is but perhaps make the three corners of the same scenery as respective with the team, like in EotM for example. It looks like you did that a little bit with Green Team in EB but Blue Team and Red Team got the short sticks or something.

Anyway these are just some suggestions for long-term projects so I hope you look at this and give them a try. I haven’t read through this whole thread either so these ideas might have already been mentioned or you as the devs might have already thought of them… but those I think could be some of the BIG LONG-TERM projects people are looking for.

I don’t do much other than WvW so I’m sure people would like to see some stuff in Duneons and Fractals as well but those are just my two cents. Personally I think WvW is one of the things that make this game great and separate from other MMOs. Don’t let it take the backseat when you’re at the drawing board with your coworkers thinking about what do do for the next patch.

As an old school GW1 player I know what a big hit that game was and why it was so awesome, I’d hate to see this game have a shorter life and that’s why I am posting these thoughts. Keep rocking on and doing what you do, thanks guys!

Templar.4512:

No, mate.

When did you start playing GW2? If you’re a ‘veteran’ like me, you’d know that after 2 years with NO sign of an expansion whatsoever, and a LS2 that leads nowhere near any of those 2 continents…you’re in for a disappointment.

WvW might get minor improvements (balancing) but that’s it, nothing else. Just look at sPvP.

I’ve had the game since about a week or two after release and so I am fully aware of the lack of big things… but it’s worth a try. If you were a Prophecies player before either of the other two campaigns came out you’d know that Prophecies gave no hint of any other campaigns or continents for that matter. So stranger things have happened.

And who knows, with the LS concerning Mordremoth they may make one about Kralk which could open up Elona. All it would take is a little initiative and there you have it.

Let me start by saying I love GW2. It took me a while to get used to it since I was a big fan of GW1 and, when GW2 came out, I realized they were very different. I love the WvW and the Living Story and the Dungeons and all that stuff. Nice job Devs!

I am starting to notice however that people, myself included, are starting to look for something more, something bigger that you can add to the game. I have two suggestions for Long-Term projects for you guys that could keep this game alive and thriving. I realize these would be Long-Term projects and if you guys see this thread and decide to give it a try, I realize this won’t be done by next week or maybe even next feature pack, but it’s just something for you guys to think about and maybe give a try.

1) So one of the things that was so great about GW1 that kept a lot of the original Prophecies players playing for so long is the fact that you came out with huge expansion campaigns (Factions, Nightfall, and the EotN expansion). In GW2 I’ve read that Elona has been completely cut off due to the rising of Palawa Joko and a dragon in the Crystal Desert (Kralkatorrik). It would be really cool to see a campaign about pushing into the Crystal Desert (maybe killing Kralkatorrik) and fighting Palawa Joko in Elona thus opening up Elona to GW2 players again.

I’m not sure what happened to Cantha although from what I’ve read it seems like Zhaitan had cut off access to Cantha and the Ministry of Purity had kind of made them a little xenophobic (btw I first saw that word in the GW Prophecies manual concerning the Stone Summit Dwarves) so maybe you guys might look into, now that Zhaitain is dead for most players, moving into Cantha to reunite with the other races.

Food for thought, that’s a tall order but I know people have been breathing down your neck about something big and this could be it.

2) The other thing that could be a big change is regarding WvW. In my humble opinion WvW is one of the most dynamic things about GW2 and I love it. The one thing that is starting to disappoint me or turn me away to Edge of the Mists is the redundancy of the maps. Now I know people have said “Change the maps” before but hear me out.

Blue Team in EotM is Frostreach. So maybe you could make their home BL a tundra setting or more snowy “Shiverpeak-y” type feel to it.

Red Team in EotM is Badlands. So perhaps their BL could be more of a “Desert-y” Crystal Desert (which could be available if you created new expansion campaigns wink wink) feel.

Green Team in EotM is Overgrowth so perhaps their BL could be more of a jungle-y, forest-y type feel? Maybe to imitate the Magumma Jungle scenery or something of that nature?

EB is fine as is but perhaps make the three corners of the same scenery as respective with the team, like in EotM for example. It looks like you did that a little bit with Green Team in EB but Blue Team and Red Team got the short sticks or something.

Anyway these are just some suggestions for long-term projects so I hope you look at this and give them a try.

I wouldn’t mind this but I spend more time in EotM than I do the other WvW maps. It would certainly be a nice change from the redundant BLs and even EB. I’ve always been a fan of EotM since it came out, imbalances and all, and have gritted my teeth as people have turned it into a ktrain map when it was originally intended to be an experimental WvW map. It would be interesting to see how it would work if people were (God forbid) forced to WvW in it.

Personally… I love EotM. I hate the players in EotM. I’ll first cover why I like it because I like it for many more reasons than I hate the players.

It’s a beautiful map for one. It’s a nice change from the redundant EB and BLs. I enjoy the different areas and the middle of the map and the aetherblades and all that mess. I enjoy the different champs and their uniqueness as to why you might want to cap them.

Also, as a commander in EotM, I enjoy the lack of TS use. In EB and the BLs everyone is on TS because they’re all on the same server. In EotM you can’t do that because you’re all from different servers. This calls for a little more strategy and tactical use of terrain and structure as you can’t just call out “Stack and push” and charge headlong into another zerg that is doing the same thing. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to look around for a choke point or high ground or a control point in our possession to set up siege and defense against an incoming larger zerg. It sets apart the good commanders from the great commanders in my opinion. If you can be an effective pugmander in EotM I will hold great respect for you. You have to be more active in team chat and it is a great thing, not to mention the feeling when you’re outnumbered and whoop the other zerg.

I DON’T like the fact that players in EotM are constantly saying things like “THIS IS EOTM THIS IS KTRAIN YARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH”. They get genuinely angry at people and it’s a great way to turn away first-timers. I understand that people come to EotM to level up toons and, as a commander, I understand people want karma and champ bags and I do my best to give it to them. But when people constantly yell at other people who are defending or they call the commander bad because he/she turns to defend the keep really quick… it’s annoying and kind of childish.

The other day I was defending FR keep with a handful of defenders and OG was going up mid gate. Our cmd was on the other end of the map so I didn’t expect him to come help and I didn’t ask for it. What happened was the cmd wp-ed back, so since he was in our area I figured I’d point out that we were defending… The cmd ran his zerg right by OG which was committed to mid-gate. He could have easily trapped them and wiped them but no and his reasoning was “We can take it back later for karma”. What ticked the defenders off the most was that he was literally right there to wipe OG, he wasn’t on the other end of the map.

It’s mentalities like that that make me and other people who enjoy just doing their thing not like EotM as much as we might. As I said, I have nothing against ktrains and champ bag farming but recently, now that people notice what colors are good for what, ktrains are harder and harder to keep going. OG knows they’ll always outnumber FR and BL so it’s not uncommon for them to bag farm. BL knows their keep is easily capturable due to WS right next to it so they don’t bother and try to take other things. FR is usually outnumbered and tries to ktrain only to be either wiped by OG or end up having to take their keep back and fail due to the three defenders of the keep. As FR I only care about defending keep, as BL I only care about capping things, and as OG I don’t really care because our numbers are great enough to take anything. People are starting to realize what each team is good for and ktrains are starting to die out.

As far as relation to the OP goes… I like the way it is set up now I just wish the mentalities of the players in EotM would be a little more open-minded and wouldn’t mind a little change up every now and then. It is a game after all and the objective is to have fun. People’s idea of fun differs and, while yours might be constantly grinding from one champ to the next monotonously, another person’s might be occasionally breaking the monotonous action to engage another zerg in a pretty intense battle of non-ts using strategy and tactics.

Maybe if they made two EotMs… one for all levels and one for lvl 80s only… where the all lvl EotM is where you would go to Ktrain only and the lvl 80 is where you would go to run WvW with other server players and have fun. But no matter… people are entitled to their opinions and, even though it wasn’t originally designed as a ktrain only map, EotM will become what the people make of it.

Whatever happens to this patch it’s going to make a lot of rangers run back to the LB imo. My ranger is my main and WvW is all I do pretty much. I don’t use a bow but, post-patch, I might just try it out again.

The problem with rangers, and this has been said on many threads already, is that they are a class that you have to know exactly what you want to get done or else some other class will do it as good if not better. Too many players have created a ranger because either 1) it was a pretty solid well-rounded class in GW1 or 2) they like the idea of being a ranged specialist with some survivability. What follows is that the people who don’t really know how to build the rangers, see that something works in pve, try it in WvW and get obliterated and everyone has a good laughing session.

A lot of people build their rangers very differently. IMO it is the class with the most diversity as far as builds go because of your pet. Do you want your pet to help you or do you think your pet’s AI is still not all the way there and not trust it to get the job done? That’s actually why ranger’s were so under-powered in WvW is because ANet thought it’d be a great perk to the class but didn’t give pets and AI that’s formidable enough for actual players instead of mindless mob NPCs. The AI has been tweaked but it still could use a teeny bit more work I think.

It’s not a question of “will the patch make rangers usable in WvW” so much as it’s “will the people who know what they’re doing use the bonuses” and “will more people get used to the ranger’s playstyle in WvW and what their strengths are” because as I said a lot of people try to use a ranger to fill a warrior’s spot… well guess what they have warriors for that. A lot of people try to be dodgy and roll-y and evasive like a thief… well guess what they have thieves for that. Ranger’s are very versatile and I saw someone on this site who said something to the effect of “it’s difficult to be a class that can be 90% good at just about everything rather than a class that’s 100% in a few things”. You have to know what you want to do and how to adapt.