Guild Wars 2

ElysianEternity.6215:

Personally, if there were to be krait breaking away from the doctrine of their priesthood I’d prefer it if they didn’t reject their religion but merely their leaders so they don’t turn into Mk. II-Charr. Like ‘fine the priests falsified a lot but there has to be some truth about our prophets and we’ll find it!". :P

Exactly! I think we can all agree that the before EotN the Charr were depicted in a similar light to the Krait. Basically, they are the aquatic version of the GW1 Charr as they have been profiled at this time. The devs keep tooting their own horns about how the story is revolved around individuals from different walks of life setting aside their differences to save the world. Has this goal suddenly become “save the races of Tyria, except the Krait!”? As you said, I would like to see them become independent of their current leaders but still keep their culture and religion. Hey, I would even like the Krait to become a playable race at some point. haha

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bullyrook.2165:

As near as I can tell, the devs have glossed over the topic in terms of lore. And maybe that is for the best, at least for now. I know that stating any definite answers within the Human’s belief in the Six would cause an uproar in the player community if a side were conclusively taken.

It’s always best if it’s simply not done just because of the general outcry if it is talked about either way. Such outcry/uproars . . . and this whole topic coming up over and over . . . is why most writers tend to skirt the issue rather than plunge headlong forward.

And yet, our dear, sweet devs have decided to launch themselves like living lore-filled torpedoes into the topic with the coming LS season. I remain hopeful that they won’t overplay their hand here, I expect they will, but I am holding onto hope.

I am well aware of the blog post, Konig, I just find it hard to believe that a species that cannot be credited with some form of supernatural corruption (like the orc/elf dynamic) can be totally evil and black hearted. If that were the case, that would be grounds for their genocide – depressing, right? How would you like that for an in-game achievement title? “Extinction Specialist” doesn’t sound like it has much going for it.

And I would really like the devs to avoid going the Charr route and having these “good” Krait reject their religion outright. Maybe just reveal an Oratuss that has a different perspective on their scriptures. That would be nice

lol Ironicly, I get the sense that marrying someone stupid is the biggest taboo in Asura culture. Sheesh, the Peacekeepers are holding one poor fella in a cell until he can answer a equation.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vanthian.9267:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I believe if there is a “God” who is conscientious enough to leave a complete lack of proof He exists outside of blind faith which can’t be proven, then it’s equally possible He does not exist.

I am not the one claiming knowledge on something that is not even remotely possible to prove. You have the burden of proof not the ones you insult. Think before you speak.

If you make a claim, you are the one charged with backing it up. Not your audience (if you even have one).

I have not insulted you yet, neighbor. You will know it when I do.

Regardless, this is entirely off topic now. We do know there are Gods in Tyria. On the other hand, none of them have expressed sentiments implying homosexuality is unacceptable.

Van, Tobias is correct. This subject matter is mostly irrelevant in this case, namely because the Abrahamic religions do not exist in the setting of Tyria. That is not to say the ideals are non-existent in Tyria, but the religion as we know it is not presented in-game.

As far as I know, there is no lore concerning the Six’s opinion on the topic of sexuality. In fact, I have yet to find any lore outside of the Sylvari that even brings up the moral implications – for or against. As near as I can tell, the devs have glossed over the topic in terms of lore. And maybe that is for the best, at least for now. I know that stating any definite answers within the Human’s belief in the Six would cause an uproar in the player community if a side were conclusively taken.

Mine is the 7th dragon. How do I know there is one? I’m guessing, that’s all :-P

Fiontar, tell us how you really feel :-P

1): That’s racist. (Joking :-P)
2): The Charr are raised from birth to obey the Legions, that doesn’t always happen. So I imagine the same thing happens with Krait.
3): There may be different Oratuss, telling different versions of the same stories. There are such things as religious wars.
4): We don’t know much about Krait history.
5): Is it possible that “good” Krait are still fighting the DSD alongside the Largos instead of retreating towards the shore?
6): I can’t count any higher :-P

….the sad part is that I’ve effectively seen that many times in my life. Florida can be scary. O_o

Huh, that is a compelling piece of data. Perhaps the Sylvari were liberated from the dragon through the magic of the druids?

So, we have seen flesh eating cats, ravenous bird-folk, brutal horse-men, nomadic giants, talking plants, glorified primates, peaceful fish-folk, noble northern bears, savage monkey-men, hive-minded rodents, communist moles, hubristic flop-eared garden gnomes, proud amphibians, defamed dwarves, fallen giant kings, hermit titans, tribal bugbears, silent hunters of the deep, and two-headed hunchbacks.

What do all of these races have in common? At least one member of their race has been show as being capable of exibiting peaceful actions towards other races regardless of their level of intellect. What I want to know is why the Krait, which the devs have placed in the same range of intellect as the Charr, do not have a single friendly NPC. I have looked all over Tyria and have yet to find one. Any thoughts on the matter?

They sound like they have a Catholic, Arabic, and Romanian motifs to them from what I have seen. All these talks of the Concordat sound promising. It will be interesting to see how they and their culture(s) are presented in-game.

On a related note, I want to know more about their relations with the Krait and Quaggan.

Sylvari have highly colorful personas. If you are looking for strong emotions of levity, then they would be ideal.

Well, it looks way too fleshy to be something Kral came up with. Perhaps a sky ED based Dragon Champion or… Or perhaps it is one of Glint’s children?

I think there may be a 7th dragon. That new dragon finisher looks way different from anything we currently have in-game.

Kalavier.1097:

He said that before his father showed his foolish stubbornness. Rurik was well loved by the people, why would he lie to them about a life free from the charr in Kryta? I could buy he maybe wanted to return to Ascalon with purely an army and no civilians, but not for a while.

Agreed. Not for awhile. But he had every intention of carrying on this blood feud until the last Charr’s dying breath. And considering that the Charr also attempted to invade Kryta as well, the Prince could only promise so much in terms of safety. He was indeed hoping to build an army and return in full force.

Kalavier.1097:

They weren’t heroes back then, hell a chunk aren’t NOW. I’m simply pointing out your description of them merely as “using” a leader until they have done their task is false. They overthrew the Shamans because they were oppressed, and the false gods defeated before them (Titans we killed infront of Charr in Proph. We killed the destroyers infront of a decent crowd of them in EOTN.) Not “They had used up their usefulness.”

No, I was saying that the flame legion lived up to their end of the bargain. They gave the Charr the means to overcome the Humans. When the Flame Legion’s gods were killed, it made their ideals look weak. And according to the Charr, the weak are not fit to rule. So they got rid of them. If the Flame Legion was able to find a “true” god capable of showing its might against all the Legions, the Charr would eventually fall back in line. Why? Because they would be the strongest.

Kalavier.1097:

“We’re an arm of the Krytan Seraph, stationed here to guard the queen’s interests in Ebonhawke.”

They are there to help the Vanguard enforce the peace, AND to make sure the Queen’s interests and funding are secure.

Need I remind you that Ebonhawk is rich in mineral wealth? They have been buying that Asura gate as much as the Queen has been funding them. That is why it is called a trade route. The Fallen Angels were not placed there until mention of the treaty. The treaty is the only reason they are there.

One problem with that though: repair smiths are independent contractors. If they were to enter into contract with the Black Lion Trading company, they must have something to gain. Ergo, they have been given a handsome salary in exchange for the BL’s increase in profits. Its a win, win situation.

If that were the case, you had best stop repairing your armor. You know, as a form of protest :-P

I hear ya, but I disagree. At any rate, I am sure that they have many other maps at the ready, they are just reworking them or keeping them on the back burner until they become relevant.

Nah, I imagine there are many maps that Anet has “finished” but are not accessible. You can see two portals in Brisbane alone that support this theory.

And people say Evon’s a bad guy. :-P pffft

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

bullyrook.2165:

Not much better. All it would take is a Minister corrupt enough and a few good scholars to track down a different heir to the throne. It will be interesting to see who that is.

A gold on it being Demmi Bettlestone. And of course, good Minister Caudecus has never had an idea of the “true” lineage of his family. Why, if this is true than it means there may be a viable reason for Queen Jennah to step down for a more . . . fair, experienced hand at ruling.

On the flip side, what if a equally morally upright individual contested Jennah’s right to rule with no other motive but to strengthen humanity? That would be even more interesting than another Caudecus plot. Good vs good instead of good vs evil.

What I want to know is when an Asura is considered a viable romantic partner. There is a little bit of trouble here because their mental age may far surpass their physical age. And as Asura are described as usually “falling in love with the same idea” rather than each other, this causes me to ponder if their society has any taboo’s in terms of sexuality at all other that “that person’s IQ is sub-optimal, kindly remove him/her/it from my sight”. Is it all a matter of if an individual’s or thing’s intelligence is high enough to be deemed as an acceptable romantic partner?

Looks equally matched to me. Norn is a bit heavier. Charr is a bit taller.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Wanderer.3248:

bullyrook.2165:

Technically speaking, we are don’t know for sure if that taboo exists in Tyria (I hope it does, lol)

There are genetic reasons why breeding with close relatives is undesirable. Humans have probably evolved to not breed with genetic relatives for that reason.

For Sylvari, breeding isn’t an option.

For the most part a human’s brain will turn them off to their siblings. Now there have been cases throughout history where this hasn’t happened so obviously I can’t say that’s always the case; but a sylvari’s brain wouldn’t naturally do this because they can’t reproduce in the first place.

Think about what you just said friend. They can’t reproduce, but they still have sexual desires. If they were all asexual, your logic would make sense. As is, there could be any number of reasons.

Kalavier.1097:

Rurik left because he understood how hopeless the situation in Ascalon was.

“I am not afraid, father. I have seen them in battle. Rin has been destroyed! It would be wise to escape while we can. We should make for Kryta and rebuild our strength. Not wait here for death.”
“People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr.”

Certainly doesn’t sound like he truly intended to come back in the short term, if ever.

Maybe not in the short term, be he most definitely had no intention of allowing the Charr to get away with attempted genocide and effectively nuking his kingdom. “Rebuild our strength”. What would you rebuild your strength for if not an assault?

Kalavier.1097:

The Charr “betrayed” the Shaman caste/flame Legion because the Flame legion relied on the Titans for their power, and once the titans were defeated it showed the other ones that the gods weren’t really gods. Then they tried destroyers as gods, and it failed. The rest of the Charr ‘betrayed’ them because the oppression FAILED.

You speak of the Charr as if they are heroes. In truth it is simply one form of tyranny in favor of another. Free expression, free speech, and all forms of individuality are stifled in the Charr culture. You do as you are ordered to do or you die. How is that any different from the Flame Legion? Oh, right, they lied about their gods. Nice way to excuse insubordination – Charr terminology, not mine. It doesn’t matter if their gods were fake or not. All the Charr want was the power to overthrow humanity and that is what they got. Effectively, the Charr made a deal with a proverbial devil. All their woes they brought on themselves.

Kalavier.1097:

Charr accept the humans won’t be moving out. THEY GAVE THE FIELDS OF RUINS TO THE HUMANS IN THE TREATY. Yeah. The Charr who don’t accept it are the hostile ones in the area.

Inside voice, friend. You effectively just repeated what I already said.

Kalavier.1097:

Some humans don’t accept it, others do.

Accepting the conditions of a legal contract and being fully satisfied with said contract are two different things.

Kalavier.1097:

Queen Jennah isn’t snapping her fingers and saying “All friends now”. I think her placing the Fallen Angels is simply a smart reinforcement of the Ebon Vanguard, and keeping her investments in repairing that Asura gate as well as supplying the city are secure. Because she was the one who paid for it. Hell, the ones who are more wanting to “snap fingers get it over with” are the Charr, especially the Iron Legion rep.

Then why the hey didn’t she just transfer solders to the Ebon Vanguard? What she did was stupid because the Fallen Angels forced the Vanguard out of their own barracks. What kind of message does that send? “You lesser soldiers who have seen more combat than the lot of us put together had best clear out. The REAL heroes are here! Shoo!”

Not much better. All it would take is a Minister corrupt enough and a few good scholars to track down a different heir to the throne. It will be interesting to see who that is.

Kalavier.1097:

Adelbern was unstable post searing. When Rurik left Ascalon, I felt he KNEW he would never return. It was a barren hellhole. There is no point going back there. Leave it to the charr.

Ignoring everything else for just a moment, slight correction here.

Rurik left to establish a bulwark against the Charr, he died before he could carry that out. But make no mistake, he had every intent to shove the Charr back across their borders. Futher more, if it were not for the Flame Legion and the Titans, no Charr would have ever set foot in Ascalon. Period. The Charr of every Legion’s leaders willingly set aside their freedoms to take back Ascalon with the Shaman Caste merely leading the charge. After Ascalon was theirs, the Charr betrayed the Shaman caste because they were no longer needed and no longer looked strong in the eyes of the Legions.

If it were not for the Searing, Ascalon would still be under human rule. The Charr stabbed the Flame Legion in the back when they no longer appeared fit to rule. It is just that simple. The human fighters of Ebonhawk have every right to want the war to go on. But we have bigger fish to fry with the Dragons and the Centaurs in Kryta. Humans have to accept that they won’t be reclaiming all of Ascalon. The Charr have to accept that humans will not be moving out of the Fields of Ruin. What I am saying is that the emotions, the hate, the urge for revenge, the distrust, and the mourning of a 200 year war fought in vain for both sides will need time to heal.

No queen can just snap her fingers and say “There! All better! No more mean talking! giggles”. These things take time.

Its not the cliché’s that annoy me. It is how poorly they are presented to me.

Don’t be fooled. That Charr just heard a Norn singing along to a Justin Bieber song. Nothing is sadder than that.

Smogg Blackstone – Ash Legion’s Black Warband
Mortarmer Whitecap – Iron Legion’s White Warband

The only reason I hold out for hope is that we have yet to see Mordy’s “big push”. All the Elder Dragon’s have done something during their awakening that drastically changed the area they lived in. One could argue that Scarlet was the device by which changes were made, but I think Mordy still has to establish an “Orr” of his own.

So, Zhaitan is dead and re-dead. But then there is the real question: is the mantle of Elder Dragon passed on?

Ah, sort of like Dhumm and Grenth. I like this idea

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Like others have said technically all sylvari are siblings.

As for the incest thing, it obviously doesn’t matter to sylvari as a lot of them love each other. The reason for it is stagnation of the gene pool anyway and as sylvari don’t reproduce that’s a non-issue for them.

Technically, you are only half right. If a homosexual couple also happened to be siblings then it would still fall under the range of taboo in order to prevent a double standard. Then you also have to consider that incest could opt out for the aid of a third party in order to have a healthy child.

At any rate, back on topic. I would like to rethink my answer. I get the feeling that Sylvari do not have “siblings” so much as they have “kin”. They are all created by one god-like being, each one radically different from the other. So it really depends on your point of view.

Ah, whatever, who are we to judge? It will totally kill the story for me if Braham and Rox go that way, but maybe that is the direction Palador would like to see human culture take. It is his viewpoint and we’ll have to respect it, even if we have a hard contrast in opinions here.

Anyway, back on topic. I AM NOT YOUR FRIEND KASMEER!!!!!!!

A want of ancestral land is hardly a tactical excuse. From a military standpoint, they would have been well served to crush the Norn, use the resources, and encompass their enemy. Instead they chose to back-down and keep fighting a war they were making zero progress with until the Searing – and that required the aid of a human god to pull off.

I give you Southsun 2.0 :P

Konig Des Todes.2086:

bullyrook.2165:

Why would they tell? Simple, to raise awareness of the dragons. That is something that is stressed through the whole game, that the races don’t understand the threat the dragons pose.

How would they tell? Simple, through their shady underworld contacts. LA was perfect for that sort of thing.

We haven’t heard a whisper of the trouble he is causing elsewhere in the world. For all we know, he may already be gnawing on Joko as we speak.

The Order of Whispers aren’t doomsayers. They’re manipulators and spies. They’re trying to solve the lesser problems to give the races room to go after the dragons. There is no awareness issue that telling where Kralkatorrik currently is would solve. The Dragonbrand makes the threat of Kralkatorrik as clear as anything else ever could – charr see it as a threat, but asura don’t because they’re so far away. And the asura still wouldn’t see Kralkatorrik as an immediate threat even if they’re told “Kralkatorrik is in the Crystal Desert at xyz location!” – in fact, they’d be LESS inclined to view it as a threat because he’s so far away and there’s actual tabs on him. So if he’s going to make a move… they’ll know when he does so.

But again, you miss the more important part of my post:

Very few people have seen an Elder Dragon and lived to tell a tale.

Zhaitan’s known to be in Arah because he never moved. But even then, only two people had ever seen him and lived – Caithe and Trahearne. Jormag’s known because he’s leading an army south, but again few have seen him and lived.

So anyone who sees Kralkatorrik… will be in so much risk that the chances of survival are slim to none. And bam, another branded to Kralk’s army.

Who’d risk such a thing when Kralkatorrik isn’t an immediate threat? Answer: no one.

So even if they know where Kralkatorrik is and what he’s doing, they won’t tell just because 1) no one important who needs to listen will listen, 2) idiots will race off to their deaths and expand his army, and 3) he’s not as immediate as the other dragons, given how recently he woke up and he isn’t doing more damage currently.

Why spread knowledge that can make Kralkatorrik a threat, when the Order of Whispers have – until Zhaitan’s defeat – thought the Elder Dragons immortal and the only hope was to put them back to hibernation (something we’re told pre-release and was poorly shown in-game).

You’re forgetting too: you don’t need to see an Elder Dragon to know his location. “Risen are coming from Orr! Whatever could be the cause?” In the case for Kral, his corruption is pretty danged easy to recognize. “Lets see: sand… sand… sand.. Oh, look!, purple crystals! sand… sand… sand…”

And even if they wouldn’t tell the average joe, some kind of info would be leaked to the Commander if the Pact at some point.

Kalavier.1097:

And you said that getting a “Peaceful” feeling from the citizens (When not dealing with crazy seperatists) was basically odd/bad. Whether it was hate of Charr or of the Fallen Angels.

I found ONCE npcs who was hating on the Fallen Angels. Most other conversations I found was neutral. Treat them as outsides maybe, but not hating.

I saw some random conversations where the one person was against Charr/not wanting to deal with them, while the other was pointing out they used same money, and they’d have to.

Ebonhawke definitely did not give off a feeling of “kitten THE CHARR!”

If the head siegemaster of the charr, and the main anti-siege weapon scout of the vanguard can become friends immediately following the cease-fire, I don’t think the amount of hate is that intensive. The hate is more intense in that pair of old ladies in Ascalon settlement.

You also have to remember that those two soldiers are just that soldiers. They have a better understanding of war than your average citizen. Also, I am fairly certain that even if they hated each other to the core, they would still be polite at the peace talks, if for no other reason than to get this whole ordeal done and over with.

And you are correct, I misspoke. The atmosphere was “peaceful”, but it is also tense and very grave. Like walking into a funeral parlor.

And as for your impressions of human/charr relations, I’ll just give you this from the Movement of the World (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Movement_of_the_World):"The continuing conflict between the humans and the Charr along the borders of Ascalon forced the humans ever farther into the Shiverpeaks. Although open war has ended save on a few small fronts, the hatred between the Charr legions and the human kingdoms never abated. If anything, it is worse than ever before. Ebonhawke stands alone in defiance, supplied by an Asura gate from Krytan territories. "

Many Ascalonians have an extreme dislike of any and all things Charr, many Charr feel the same way. They can be civil, but that doesn’t mean they are going to be buddy-buddy anytime soon. Even Logan and Rytlock have threatened to gut eachother whenever the topic shifts to issues of race and Ascalonian history. The closest they can get to a resolution is “its in the past, let’s start over”. For many Ascalonian families, Charr and Human alike, it is far from being in the past. Both the Charr renegades and the Human separatists act as tethers to a bloody past that keeps large scale murder charges on the heads of the other. This is not even beginning to cover the differences in social dynamics, economic tactics, views on religion, even biology – the charr have trouble hearing human voices, to my understanding. The fact that these two races think they can manage a lasting peace with sharp contrasts is surprising to say the least.

No. The NPCs you encountered were strategically placed by the devs to polarize what is “good” and “evil” within this setting. Being against the treaty, disliking Charr, disliking those “Fallen Angels”, and holding onto anything resembling a GW1 concept of Ascalon and its relationship with the Charr Legions has been polarized as “evil”, with little to no regard to the reasons.

Effectively, if you played Gw1, that means you were an oppressor of the Charr and supported the tyrant Rurik as you defended your ill-gained lands. Not only that, but this also means that your character was merciless butcher of the noble Charr race to the point that your character wears their skins. I just find this turnaround so humorous, lol.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

You’re rather missing my point bullyrook.

• Even if they can go past the Desert Gate, admitting so would be admitting a crime. So they won’t admit it. Ergo, any knowledge they have of such – if they’ve done such – wouldn’t be announced publicly.
• Well he can turn into a sandstorm. But for people to know what he’s up to requires three things: 1) that they can find him, 2) that they can survive after seeing him (note: Zhaitan was awake for 100 years and remained in Arah throughout, but only two people had seen Zhaitan and survived – Caithe and Trahearne), and 3) that they spread this information. Furthermore, as shown here journeying just to the corpse of Glint takes weeks (though from where is unknown, but this is for Zephyrites we’re talking about), so exploring the full Crystal Desert? That’s going to take a LOT of time and resources – the Crystal Desert is shown as being very harsh, even to the prepared, and it is much larger than we see in the GW2 world map (extending both south and east). So even with 7 years, mapping the whole desert to find a moving target isn’t guaranteed (but still, you’d need people who’d risk their life and the possibility of corruption to go into the desert to search for Kralkatorrik in the first place).
• I never said Kralkatorrik isn’t surrounded by corruption – just that he isn’t at the bottom of the Dragonbrand; two very different things. In fact, there’s little need to corrupt the land of the Crystal Desert, unless he’s going to make minions out of it or spread his corruption somehow akin to Zhaitan with the Artesian Waters, as it should be noted that the desert is full of his crystallized blood (per Edge of Destiny – which mentions that there’s even such found scarcely in the Dragonbrand). However, as I said above, the Crystal Desert expands further than we see… so what keeps Kralkatorrik to have created his swath of corruption off the map? Furthermore, the accuracy of the world map that’s unexplored is questionable in specific details – after all, Southsun Cove existed before we got access to it, and it wasn’t on the world map by that point – furthermore, the Dragonbrand begins at the big lake in the middle of the Blood Legion Homelands, but we can only see it starting further south than that – so the world map isn’t guaranteed to show where Kralkatorrik is, if for no other reason but to represent what players/common Tyrians know.
  Also, the Order of Whispers don’t keep tabs on any dragon directly. They keep tabs on the dragons’ influence. But even if they did, as Kalavier said – why spread this information yet? So adventurers seeking to make a name of themselves will ride off to their deaths as they do with Jormag and Zhaitan?

Why would they tell? Simple, to raise awareness of the dragons. That is something that is stressed through the whole game, that the races don’t understand the threat the dragons pose.

How would they tell? Simple, through their shady underworld contacts. LA was perfect for that sort of thing.

We haven’t heard a whisper of the trouble he is causing elsewhere in the world. For all we know, he may already be gnawing on Joko as we speak.

Ehecatl.9172:

bullyrook.2165:

arthurobenzi.2619:

bullyrook.2165:

Reconnaissance is usually followed by some manner of assault.

Yes but here they don’t, because charr saw than send a few warband is not sufficient to invade the norn . They stopped the invasion because they knew that norn was not going to be invaded by a few warband, because norn have their surnatural strenght.

A tactical and ruthless race like the Charr would admit defeat because they are scared of a little brawn?

The charr were still in a state of civil war against the Flame Legion, and had to deal with the forces of Ebonhawke on the side. The tactical and ruthless race decided to use the tactical half and, rather than send a third of their forces to take some frozen mountain range with no strategic value to their efforts elsewhere, call off a full scale invasion of the norn in favor on focusing on domestic threats.

I believe that this happened before the charr civil war. "In fact, during the Searing, the Norn allowed the Charr armies passage through the northern pass from Ascalon into Kryta, setting the stage for the Charr invasion of the central human lands. Although this was not a sign of any alliance, it set the stage for the two races to live within a watchful peace. "

Kalavier.1097:

bullyrook.2165:

If you got a peaceful feeling from visiting Ebonhawk, I must be visiting the place only on Mondays. The people of Ebonhawk are glad of the treaty, to be sure, but they still hate the Charr with a passion and rightly so. You cannot ask two peoples so entrenched in war with the blood of the other’s siblings on their hands to suddenly act chummy. It isn’t going to happen. It will take generations for that rift to heal, and forcing change though the use of special forces like the Queen is doing will only cause trouble. She really should have left the security of Ebonhawk to its guards, reinforcing their ranks through transfers, not those glorified Seraph. It breeds feelings of animosity and contempt when someone outside of your fight steps in uninvited and says “Here, let us handle things. You poor fellows will only ruin the peace we are trying to establish.” It is demeaning. And for the people of Ebonhawk, their pride and hope is all they have left. I’m just saying that it could have been handled more tactfully.

They hate the charr with a passion. Hmm. Funny

Seeing as I was just at summit peak, and there was the Ebon Vanguard captain who admitted having stuff in common with a Charr (The “Butcher of the siege plains” no less), and was working to get along with them. She admitted the next generation after they die would have an easier time, but both of them was focused on GIVING that generation a chance. So much hate huh?

Then you have the archer talking to a Charr marksmen, trading childhood horror stories of the other side, getting along fine and to quote human: “The charr are ferocious in battle, but in person they seem a little more… human.” Charr: “Humans aren’t as nasty tempered as I’d thought they would be.”

Hell, Iron Legion rep literally goes “Let’s just sign the papers, be at peace, and go back to work.” He literally says to “You think peace can just happen like that?” with “It should.”

Out of the three groups, only ONE pairing is laced with semi-hate. And that pairing literally goes “It’s hard to stand near them… but I’m controlling myself.”

Hell, for fun I then visited Ebonhawke, and ran into a human female named npc. She mentioned how pretty she was happy with the idea of peace.

Captain of the Ebon Vanguard says he’ll gladly accept the treaty and hang up his sword to return to farming.

Charr in the OoW hideout says all she gets is hard stares.

The Sergeant near the hawkgates is happy about the treaty.

An Angry farmer to the south isn’t happy, but it’s more toward Jennah then the charr.

So yes, running through Ebonhawke and the summit tent (I did not go into the Ebon Vanguard camp there admittedly), I didn’t get a feeling of a city full of hate toward Charr. I felt a city which was happy to finally have the chance at peace, and willing to move on. They didn’t feel like they were clinging to the hate and besides some, it felt like most were actually quite willing to just throw it aside.

Congrats, you found a handful of named NPCs that the devs threw in to help polarize the good of the treaty. And I never said anything about them not wanting peace, I was talking about being on friendly terms with each other. There is a big big difference. You can be at peace and still hate certain people’s guts. It is a matter of perception, not a matter of action.

Kalavier.1097:

bullyrook.2165:

Kalavier.1097:

Skipped most of the thread, but I recall the closest anet came to anti-same sex marriage was basically saying…

“The Charr might be the most opposed to it, but they really don’t care as long as it doesn’t mess with a soldiers duties (like anything else).”

Otherwise, Marjory and Kasmeer are completely open about their relationship in a bar. If it was such a taboo thing, that wouldn’t happen.

Yeah, because the taboo’s have such an effect in real life =_=.

A good bit back, if you were gay you wouldn’t openly talk about it in a bar. You wouldn’t basically walk up to somebody and ask if the guy they were with was their boyfriend/husband.

If Kryta really was against same sex couples, why would they openly discuss it in a bar, the most noted place across almost every universe to get the latest rumors and information?

Maybe it is a homosexual hot-spot :P. Not uncommon, even “a good bit back”.

All very possible. We don’t know how many Norn cultures there are either. There may be Norn in other parts of Tyria, or even beyond.

Technically speaking, we are don’t know for sure if that taboo exists in Tyria (I hope it does, lol)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

They’re from Elona, which while is across the Crystal Desert, as Mist said we don’t know how they go to and fro Elona and Tyria – we just know that they can.

Most likely, they use an asura gate. Perhaps even this one from Eye of the North. Though the canonocity of that gate beneath Istan is questionable (since all three utilize the same latter 2/3rds and other campaign-to-campaign quests (the NF to Proph/Cantha) were confirmed non-cannon by Linsey Murdock)..

I am willing to wager that they can sneak past a lil’ ol’ gate any time they want.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

My point in this is that “just because it looks like a small distance for us players, doesn’t mean it is in lore.”

No, distance hasn’t stopped the Order of Whispers before, but no one – not even the Order of Whispers – would be able to travel as fast as players, thus for everyone, even the OoW, it is harder than you may expect to travel and gather location-based information..

They have had seven years to locate a Dragon the size of a mountain who must have renovated an area many many times the size of the Dragonbrand by now. Time and distance are irrelevant in this case. That is my point. Unless of course he has Mesmer-like abilities to hide himself.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

bullyrook.2165:

So it isn’t like the entire continent of Tyria is the size of Germany or some such. You wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall structure in England from Switzerland. Same reason you wouldn’t see a 1,000 foot tall Elder Dragon somewhere within the Crystal Desert from outside of it – and you even have a small mountainrange to the north of the Crystal Desert, and access to the desert has been prohibited by foot for a few years by Queen Jennah (three guesses as to why).

I’d say the undead king on the other side might be as good a reason as any dragon.

True, but which is more recent? Which does Jennah know directly about? Why close the gate now, rather than before, if it’s closed due to Joko?

It’s more of “food for thought” than “obviously, this is the only possibility.”.

Good point, well made. I don’t think the two are related, but that is another story.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

bullyrook.2165:

Also, who said Kralkatorrik is “ever expanding”? Kralkatorrik’s size doesn’t change as far as we know.

I meant in terms of his territory. If he did settle anywhere, I would think that given the Dragonbrand was made in mere moments, whatever his current residence is now, it must be fairly impressive.

Zhaitan remained in Orr – which is smaller than the Crystal Desert – for 100 years before expanding seriously. The risen on the Tarnished Coast are said to be recent, as are, I believe, those in northern Sparkfly Fen (thus Bloodtide Coast too). Prior to recently, it’s mainly been pockets of risen wandering out of their territory, or the invasions on Port Noble, Port Stalwart, and Lion’s Arch (the last one failing) – though obviously since Taidha has claimed Port Noble’s ruins, they didn’t remain occupying the areas.

Similarly, Jormag’s move south is said to be recent (as well as a recent increase in the Sons of Svanir’s size), despite being awake for 150 years.

All of the Elder Dragons hold the methodology of “wake up, clear immediate area in one swoop, wait a century or so, then invade with armies to expand territory”. Kralkatorrik did the first two and then some in order to take out what he probably thought to be the greatest threat to him – Glint (considering she knows his weakenesses, that’s likely why just as much as Glint betrayed him – similar to why Zhaitan assaulted the excavation during Forging the Pact, assaulted the Orders’ HQs after taking Claw Island, and had attempted an assassination and framing of Trahearne and the PC depending on which fear choice you made; those were clearly attempts to remove the greatest threats).

But there is one problem with that theory: all the dragons you listed are entrenched in the corruption they made with “one swoop”. According to you, Kral is not. So that means you believe he is effectively standing in the desert with a sign that reads “will corrupt for food” as the world in his immediate area remains 100% unaffected by his presence. Either that, or the OoW has been fully lobotomized by the devs and they decided to leave this one dragon out of their watchful gaze.

arthurobenzi.2619:

bullyrook.2165:

Reconnaissance is usually followed by some manner of assault.

Yes but here they don’t, because charr saw than send a few warband is not sufficient to invade the norn . They stopped the invasion because they knew that norn was not going to be invaded by a few warband, because norn have their surnatural strenght.

A tactical and ruthless race like the Charr would admit defeat because they are scared of a little brawn?

Kalavier.1097:

bullyrook.2165:

Well, I simply dislike the fact that there is no middle ground in this difference of opinion. Feels like Kryta is occupying Ascalon and asking the locals to be happy about it. In fairness, the Queen has a limited right to extend her will over Ebonhawk, but placing special forces with gaudy titles for the purpose “protecting” Tyria’s most hardboiled humans seems a bit overdone.

Note that actually besides the hardcore people, many of Ebonhawke are GLAD for the cease-fire. Hell, they are settling their lands (They were given fields of ruin with the treaty) and making friends with the Charr.

(See CoF path 1, and the treaty tent.) Sure, some humans and charr are growling at each other, but others are making friends and going “Man, all those childhood tales about you… aren’t true at all!”

I’ve read actually Jennah and the currently lord of Ebonhawke are the only two humans capable of breaking the foefire. Honestly, besides a few TRUE old timers in Ascalon Settlement (They call you a doomed heathen if you aren’t human. One gets very nasty if you are charr. Two old ladies who get told to can it by a nearby guard for harassing visitors), people have moved on. Both in Kryta and Ascalon.

I don’t really get an “occupied” ascalon feeling much. I think most of the citizens are happy to finally have the sieges over, especially the ones who went out to set up camps and farms beyond the walls. What they want is peace, not being harassed by angry separatists or such.

If you got a peaceful feeling from visiting Ebonhawk, I must be visiting the place only on Mondays. The people of Ebonhawk are glad of the treaty, to be sure, but they still hate the Charr with a passion and rightly so. You cannot ask two peoples so entrenched in war with the blood of the other’s siblings on their hands to suddenly act chummy. It isn’t going to happen. It will take generations for that rift to heal, and forcing change though the use of special forces like the Queen is doing will only cause trouble. She really should have left the security of Ebonhawk to its guards, reinforcing their ranks through transfers, not those glorified Seraph. It breeds feelings of animosity and contempt when someone outside of your fight steps in uninvited and says “Here, let us handle things. You poor fellows will only ruin the peace we are trying to establish.” It is demeaning. And for the people of Ebonhawk, their pride and hope is all they have left. I’m just saying that it could have been handled more tactfully.

Kalavier.1097:

Skipped most of the thread, but I recall the closest anet came to anti-same sex marriage was basically saying…

“The Charr might be the most opposed to it, but they really don’t care as long as it doesn’t mess with a soldiers duties (like anything else).”

Otherwise, Marjory and Kasmeer are completely open about their relationship in a bar. If it was such a taboo thing, that wouldn’t happen.

Yeah, because the taboo’s have such an effect in real life =_=.