Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Dante.1508:

As i said after seeing GW2 and its limited future..

We will see about that.

There isn’t much to see. Yesterday there was a livestream. About a new jumping puzzle. Nobody gave a kitty. 90% of the questions in the chat were about game features like GvG and Guild Halls. Thats what people care about. And the questions were deleted with draconic dictatorship.

“Only ask the irrevelant questions please!”

There is no direction where the direction matters. They have no idea what they are doing, or they are clinging to the skirt of their PR department because they are afraid of our reactions.

“Mommy what should I say now?”

I do not know what their agenda is, but it’s not saying anything good about them. Honest developers who care about the well being of their consumers come out and answer the questions that people care about, not treat their consumers like cattle and probe them in the rectum to see if they produce more or less milk on different probings.

In the past months, lots of things were added except for the things that literally everyone requested.

What is that kitten supposed to be, some kind of a dev egoism, or a fear that if they do what people ask for then people will just keep asking and asking for more and they they will not know where to pull the line? Well guess what, you pull the line wherever the kitten you want to. It’s not like you’ll be more arrogant with that than how arrogant you are right now by not even answering.

The common sense in these people are just completely missing.

Of course people whant GvG and Guild Halls. These are Guild Wars features. What the hell were they thinking when they did not put them in? Someone kittened up prioritoies in developement. Make that guy suffer the consequences and have him come out and say “I kittened it up, sorry!”.

That’s how karma works.

It’s gonna catch you either way. You, or your game.

When in the livestream the dev said something, just one thing at the end, I don’t recall what it was but it was important, he said that he would like to work on it, just that, nothing more, the chat was flooded with responses of “thank you”.

If they didn’t get the proper way to communicate with the fanbase after that, they will never get it.

The biggest problem that tells the most about this game’s future is not the actual content, but the lag at which ArenaNet realizes and deals with missing basic components, and inherently wrong systems.

They have completely screwed up priorities.

It takes them months to implement almost mindbogglingly basic things like the titles displaying under the names. Things that should have been there since conception. Mistakes that only amateurs make.

These are ameteurish mistakes.

It’s like as if the team’s collective creativity and intelligence suffered some kind of a stroke and was reduced to the thinking capacity of a banana. Who knows why? Maybe some people who were crucial in the creaion of the original game already left? I do no know, I do not follow dev drama.

But very fact that a lot of basic things are still missing from the game and we, again, have to resort to 3rd party sites like gwlfg.com instead of having such things incorporated into the game… the very fact that for the developers it was not trivial that these things should be implemented is what speaks volumes of the game’s future.

It’s like only the creative department is still intact, because seemingly everyone else is doing a helluva poor job.

But popping out world events is not gonna save the game. You have to make big changes, or you can kiss the game goodbye. And you have to tell people about the upcoming changes, because with saying that you do not plan to make expansions, you just destroyed a humongous ammount of enthusiasm.

In case you did not know, that was what was keeping people here.
That maybe you will fix all this **** in a huge update in the form of an expansion.

And you killed that hope.
Nobody is buying the “this game will become GW2.5 and GW3”.
People are thinking that you were deprived of fiancial support and you simply have no money to make an expansion.

People know exactly how this industry works.

Sanguinem.3452:

The leveling in this game could have been shortened In my opinion, starting a game off with 80 levels is a bit much. I would have been okay with 40-60. After 40 the game just seems to turn into a huge grind with nothing really keeping you going other than guild fun.

The original idea of “no levels” was a better. It was not a popular concept in MMO games and they could have popularized it with an AAA title. It’s not like they weren’t already hellbent on popularizing a lot of their other stupid unconventional ideas.

That was something that was bothering me from the start. For a game that allegedly attemted to popularize new ideas, they started out with a lot of expy ideas.

With the ammount of marketing power that they used to cover some of their kitties after the release, they could’ve easily popularized the “no levels” concept. There was really no danger in it. Of course nobody ever considers using the evil tool of marketing for anything but damage control.

Convincing stupid people of good ideas? Nah, that must be completely impossible. You can only convince smart people of stupid ideas.

Logic.

I will say the same thing that I said when the game came out.

The profession-specific armors, the double p?rofession system, the skill building, and the elite skill hunting kept Guild Wars 1 replayable, offering something different for every class, every time; and the lack of auction house, the Outpost/City system, and Alliance Battles glued the community together.

The lack of these things killed people’s enthusiasm for Guild Wars 2.

We fans knew why the first game was good. We told them. To invoke the meme, “They only had one job.”

They didn’t seggregate anyone in Everquest 2.

It was actually an awful lot of fun to decorate them; have your cat there and everything; craft furniture through crafting professions.

That was a good game; had a good economy too where you could make money out of crafting.

Eddard.2930:

How could you possibly design an MMO that wasn’t to a certain extent “grindy”?

http://www.blogcdn.com/news.bigdownload.com/media/2008/05/guild-wars-logo---fconw.jpg

The grind starts when you decide to level a second character up to 80.

For the first time, it’s bearable. For the second, it’s old a busted, and you know that crafting and equiping are gonna sink away all your money that you already doesn’t have much of anyways.

Bonus torture points if your first character was a Guardian, because everything’s gonna feel like toilet paper compared to it.

It’s easy to look on the game and the forums to see that they cannot coexist culturally.

The fact is that Guild Wars was so different that backlash is expected, yet the new players will not kitten off either because of the tremendous hype that the game had and because of their wish to play an MMo that is better than what they have played so far, which GW still succeeds at despite being lower in quality than what old GW players were used to.

The result is, as percieved, is that you can tear at each other’s throats for the next 7 years, trying to decide which direction the game should go.

Alternatively, something might happen when it “succeeds” at revolutionizing the genre by spawning off a few clones that will serve as alternatives for those who just want to play a “new generation MMO”. Looking at the new trailers of TES Online and how they refer to their combat system as “similar to GW2” that’s probably gonna be the first one in the line.

At that point the game may die of abandonment or Anet may take some steps in the other direction, back to the old manifesto, provited there’s gonna be enough old GW players who still care at that point. Of course, they may do that sooner, who knows.

stjf.7180:

go adventuring with a friend and have fun. As lunastra said at the top of this page, their guild does hide-n-seek nights, quizzes on lore, themed gatherings, wvw nights.

Oh come on… That’s like… the greatest marketing bs that I have ever heard.

You are not doing that either. You just talk about it.
You can complete all the puzzles in one go, or in a month o so.

Then what?

A short game is a short game. It’s not us who were rushing through it. It was simply that short. For an MMO which people sometimes play for several hours a day, this game was short.

And guess what, maybe it isn’t if you play like 1 hour a day, but here’s the thing: Guild Wars was not too long for you either if you wre playing 1 hour a day. I knew some people like that. They never felt left behind.

stjf.7180:

I for one will play the game for much longer than a single player game. I’ll drop in to wvw matches or wander around with friends in years to come, and I’m sure there are thousands who will do likewise. Perhaps we are also the thousands who play the game to have fun with hide-n-seek nights and the like.

There were some things that I liked in GW1, double profession was something I liked. The reality is though is that that could never work in the GW2 engine, and I’m fine with that. There’s plenty of variety within classes to keep me amused. If I get bored of my engineer I’ll swap to my elementalist (who couldn’t enjoy playing around with the lightening hammer!).

I’m not looking for a divine masterplan of any sorts. GW2 as you see it now is GW2, any changes are going to be minor tinkering or new areas. I like that, I like GW2 as it stands and the fact that it is so busy with so many servers suggests that many people think likewise.

Well, I’m happy if you still enjoy the game. I’m just saying that so you know that I’m not trying to deteriorate you here or anything.

It’s just different for me. I got used to a very high quality of content and this game doesn’t even hit that from the lower end on my scale. In my previous post I made 4 point where I compared the two games.

chronus.1326:

• The new quest system is not objectively more effective than “hunting exclamation marks” because it takes away the ability to stack quests in a quest log and the repetitiveness of the events break the suspension of disbelief.
• The open world actually hinders convenient server-to-server movement and it does not hold a community together as much as the instanced system where people could only meet up in cities and outposts.
• The skill point money costs were a better money sink than the repair and WP costs because they actually contributed to your progress, rather than just being thinly veiled taxes that you pay so the weak-minded would turn to buying gems from real money and converting it for gold, which if effectively a hidden subscription fee.
• The Elite Skill capturing and the profession-specific armors provided unque experience for all classes throughout the ENTIRE game, not just the first 15-20 levels, and also something to work your each character towards to, making alting a worthwhile thing, while also extending character progress outside of the rims of the maximum level cap.
• The Double profession system generated community cooperation in creating builds and made GvG and PvP a constant change of meta where your job was to overcome the current meta with a better designed build and teamwork combination, effectively making victories earned and worked for, not just a matter of numbers (WvW) or who had to scratch his elbow at that time instead of dodging (sPvP).

As you can see, the difference for me in a lot of points is not a difference is style but a difference in quality.

stjf.7180:

I don’t really see what that has to do with what FatFox says.

There’s really no incentive to do anything when everything is allowed.The “what everyone makes it to be” is working as much as an mmo as a sandbox.

The roles of society allow people to identify themselves. What are you, an artist, a driver, a doctor, an architect, and engineer, a biologist, a writer, a reader? Whatever you are, you will likely not be all of them. Succeeding in one thing that is unique to you or can be unique to you at least in your own enviroment is how people can feel happiness from achievements.

If you can be a tank and a healer and a mage and a cook and a smith and a speak 40 different languages and mount a great white shark with two machine guns then you are not a person but James Bond.

The Holy Trinity is a system that came into existence as the natural result of people applying social roles to cooperative gaming. It even exists in games where it is not clearly outlined. It is not artificial. It was not created. It is the natural form of human cooperation.

You take that away and make people unable to identify with a role that only they can fill, and what you get is a bunch of slaves who row a boat. There is no natural incentive in human beings to force themselves into roles. You can force yourself into roles but it’s gonna get tiring. People derive satisfaction from exceeding in the roles that they were forced into, but naturally the human mind paradoxically strives against the shackles. You want to beat the role, but you have be in the role to derive satisfaction from trying to beat it. Being able to do everything is Enlightment. That’s when you leave this place because you have nothing else to do here. You have learned everything and have done everything. It is the boredom of perfection.

Like having a lvl 100 character in an Elder Scrolls Game.

It doesn’t work in an mmorpg.
This game should have been made a zombie survival game with the players being the zombies because that’s exactly how they behave.

…Actually. That is an awesome idea for an mmo. I’m gonna write that down.

Lafiel.9372:

So what the OP is saying…. because people are not forced to interact with each other, you’re not interested in this game. Interesting, now I see why other games never interested me since they forced me to interact with others against my will.

The alternative equals a game of soccer where everyone has a ball and the illusion of difficultity is defined only by the size of the goal.

Guild Wars 2 not only does not promote teamwork but downright promotes solo play because of the heavy repair cost penalty that you get if you fail.

This generates elitism even among people who are masochistic enough to team play, which alienates the bottom tier of a community, which is usually 70% of a community, which then is further alienated by the extending top tier of armor sets that Nexon is forcing down people’s throats now.

In the end what remains?
The lore and the story is as long-lasting as any single-player game’s and the e-sport PvP is a different animal that strives no matter what the game’s system is (thus it should never be a target group which a game is catered to).

It will live the lifespan of a singleplayer game then with the last apologist gone and everyone finally recovering from Post-purchase Rationalization it’s gonna die the death of apathy like most of the other mayflies in the genre.

The novelity is ilusionary.
The “new things” are actually not objectively better than previouisly.

• The new quest system is not objectively more effective than “hunting exclamation marks” because it takes away the ability to stack quests in a quest log and the repetitiveness of the events break the suspension of disbelief.
• The open world actually hinders convenient server-to-server movement and it does not hold a community together as much as the instanced system where people could only meet up in cities and outposts.
• The skill point money costs were a better money sink than the repair and WP costs because they actually contributed to your progress, rather than just being thinly veiled taxes that you pay so the weak-minded would turn to buying gems from real money and converting it for gold, which if effectively a hidden subscription fee.
• The Elite Skill capturing and the profession-specific armors provided unque experience for all classes throughout the ENTIRE game, not just the first 15-20 levels, and also something to work your each character towards to, making alting a worthwhile thing, while also extending character progress outside of the rims of the maximum level cap.
• The Double profession system generated community cooperation in creating builds and made GvG and PvP a constant change of meta where your job was to overcome the current meta with a better designed build and teamwork combination, effectively making victories earned and worked for, not just a matter of numbers (WvW) or who had to scratch his elbow at that time instead of dodging (sPvP).

I can completely understand why this is so hard to accept.

It’s because it is so absolutely horrible compared to the first one that everyone is looking for the candid camera staff to jump out and scream “You are on TV!”.

It is so bad that it is unrealistic. It is not something that anyone would expect from ArenaNet. People are looking for some kind of an incomprehensible divine masterplan, or something of the sort, because even that is more believable than just screwing up this hard.

“It must be our fault for not comprehending their vast intellect and how this game succeeds in everything imaginable”

“We must be not playing it the right way.”

Well… uuhh…
No.
It’s just bad.
That’s it.
That’s all.
The end.

Credits.

Fatfox.4915:

chronus.1326:

Fatfox.4915:

I think GW2, is at the end of the day, what each individual user makes of it.

Sandboxes don’t make good MMOs.

I meant as a unique experience for individuals, not as in a complete sandbox, I don’t want people to start building all over the place and leaving their mark like some cheap housing scheme gone wrong XD. I think the optional bits are what draw some people to the game, as if they don’t want to do it, they can do something else that they enjoy and get an equivalent reward if that’s what they’re in it for.

I have no idea if we share the same idea of a good MMO, one man’s trash is another man’s treasure and all that.
MMO itself is a fluid term, so maybe GW2 is a semi- open-worldish-RPG-MMO-part-RTS-nonlinear-in-places-linear-etc-etc beast that aims to cater for a lot of different tastes and does fairly well considering.

Hopefully more content will be added to make sure that people who want to use deep strategy and team work can do, giving a reason to talk to others but that is still accessible to the generally soloing player, who goes “Hey I feel like working in an organised team today.”

It’s pretty tough to get the balance right, too much optional stuff and those that like to be guided on an adventure get bored, and too much compulsory stuff and people who like wandering and exploring of their own accord get bored. Same with grouping and solo. Good luck ANet!

Societies are built on rules and roles.
If you take those away they stop being societies.

Fatfox.4915:

I think GW2, is at the end of the day, what each individual user makes of it.

Sandboxes don’t make good MMOs.

stjf.7180:

If it really is all about legendaries then why did they bother making so many areas? Why did they bother putting so much design and creative effort into each and every character model? They did that because the point of GW is to enjoy it, to enjoy the GW world.

Because NCsoft/Nexon didn’t take over until one or two months before the release.

Why nerf AC instead of buffing the other dungeons to it’s level? The only thing nerf does is pissing people off, whereas buffing other things to the imbalanced one’s level would please a lot of people while reaching the same result.

What is the point of this?

From the last Q&A it became obvious that they are not allowed to answer the real questions. This is a waste of time. They’re gonna cheery pick out questions again. Actual communication is not possible while Nexon/NCsoft stands between ANet and us.

The answers will most likely be generic and insubstantial PR again.

We can’t get answers, they can’t give answers.
It’s just a torture for both them and us at this point.

It wasn’t as fun as GW before the patch, and it stopped being GW after the patch.

What exactly do you want us to enjoy? Anet (or maybe Nexon) is misunderstanding something. I was only going through the tedious leveling process because I had hopes that the only reason why the game was not as content-full as Guild Wars was because they simply had no time to finish it. When the game was released it still felt like a beta. In the first few days they kept adding new things like the ability to craft from storage, ect.The game was not refined. The only reason why I was playing because I expected them to further elaborate the game, just like how they did with Guild Wars.

I wasn’t playing the game because I was enjoying grinding through 80 level of mostly-boring content. I was playing because I was waiting for 5 years for this game and I had high hopes even after the slippery release.

I had high hopes that they will work on the skill system some more, solve the issue with the emtpty towns, the storage placements, the traveling costs, the missing emotes, the enemy AI, the uncostumizable interface, the dead economy, or the pay2aquire legendaries.

Guild Wars became fun on the long run too. Many of us were expecting the same here, even though this game was not even nearly as fun as Guild Wars when Guild Wars first came out. But still, we had high hopes because Guild Wars had a lot of game mechanics changed too, like the attribute refunds, so we expected the same here. I expected the same here. I was saying it to my friends that “the good thing about Guild Wars is that even if something is not perfect or outright wrong, the devs will eventually alter it, modify it, change it into something good”.

I think most of us Guild Wars fans were very proud of having a dev team like Anet who was willing to go back of design choices when they saw that the designs were not working out very well. Such sincerity in the industry was so rare that it was almost nonexistant; most devs had their heads high up where the sun doesn’t shine and they cared more about face than about right and wrong.

So that is what the new patch killed.
It killed the hope that the game is going into the right direction.

So why should I level my characters now? Like I said, leveling was not fun. I did it so I could enjoy content when content arrives. I bought armor and weapons for the same reason. I designed the outlook of my character, just like in Guild Wars, not expecting the value of my equipment to go down.

I was preparing to play the game, not playing it.

But the content never arrived, instead they implemented a carrot, most likely because either NCsoft of Nexon told them to.

So I lost my incentive to progress because I do not see what I am progressing towards to. I will not grind for armor so I could do a dungeon to grind for higher armor that I can use to grind in a higher dungeon for higher armor.

That is not Guild Wars.
That is WoW.
That kitten is the reason why I was playing Guild Wars and not WoW.

End of story.

Michael.6849:

A lot of people are bringing up the argument because there is a slight increase in stats it doesn’t count as a treadmill, I guess these people have never witnessed an avalanche.

It’s like if you were being mugged and they would slice you with a knife, sure you could laugh it off, say it’s nothing but a scratch, just don’t be surprised if they stab you in the gut on the following jab.

It’s extra funny because if they actually would have played WoW then they would know that there is only a 10% difference in starts between two tiers there.

Ouroboros.5076:

It’s fun. I come to these forums once in a while because of the useless complaints of haters, and even then I can still recognize the same ten people who jump on every single post to deliver their bile : Raging Bull, LordByron, etc. They have been hating on these forums for months now.

So my question for you : are you paid for this ? Because I can’t see anyone coming every day on the official forum of a game he doesn’t like to troll every single post with useless feedback for 3 MONTHS ?!

Welcome to perspectives.

Plague.5329:

I think one aspect that didn’t help is that earlier, around launch, when the subject of endgame content came up.

This is true.

GW1 didn’t have endgame.

90% of the content was only available to you after you reached the max level. Which was 20. And reaching it was about as slow are reaching 20 in GW2. Levels before 20 were more like a tutorial section.

In that sense, the game actually had no “levels” or “leveling” in the traditional sense, and no “end” game content. Just simply content. Lots of content. And none of it was “taxed” by money sinks.

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102:

Such is life.

“That is the logic of the defeated! Winners must always think of not how the world is but how the world should be!”

xiv.7136:

because some people can’t read the server screen:

BioWare decreased the max limit to make unpopulated server seem full and therefore imply that the game is being played.

Even though those servers are full and high, whenever I log into Guild Wars I see empty zones everywhere, with 1-2 people dong alts.

People say that everyone is in Orr, but wen I go to Cursed Shore, I only see 2 or 3 whole teams farming Plinx (or whatever it’s called).

Then people say that everone is in WvW. I log in and have to run around for 20 minutes before I find the zerg (if there’s any), and the starting base is almost always empty.

So then I wonder what a Low popularty server might be like.

Andlat Helsonr.1284:

If a thread with 190 pages of responses is dismissed and seen as the voice of the vocal minority.. then why have a forum as a mean of receiving feedback at all ?

To have the illusion that they care.

Just like the live Q&A yesterday. 90% of posts ingored, 10% “answered” that have been answered before and which nobody cared about.

Cloudwalkernz.1328:

I been replaying my GW1 characters and been thinking won’t this be great if you combine the awesome game play of GW1 with the pretty graphic of GW2?

Sure it will be the Wow beater that everyone is looking for.

Plus the development cost can’t be that great since there is so many similarity between GW1 and GW2.

There is also already a huge player base and who has played both GW1 and GW2 don’t missed the original.

A copper for your thoughts.

The only way I would buy something like that anymore is if it’s made by a developer that uses Kickstarter.

Promptly, I say that everything that has any relation to and kind of a big publisher, or is on the stock exchange, or can be overtaken or manipulated by any greedy force in any possible way, can kitten itself.

I want them all to crash. I want Nexon to crash. I want EA to crash. I want Activision to crash. I want them all to crash and all their managers and directors and everybody who was ever involved in making decisions there to end up on the streets, never being able to make a single penny again.

I have enough of this industry and I have enough of the capitalistic hubris that runs it. Everyone who is involved and everyone who is a collaborator can kitten itself because they did it completely intentionally and with the full kowledge of the consequences. There are no escapes and no justifications. They are no different from the banks that caused the current fiancial crysis.

I want the entire thing to suffocate in its own inevitable backrupcy and disappear from the face of this planet forever.

And after that, when all the trash was put to where it belongs, after that we can talk about making a game. Though Kickstarter, or something similar. No more publishers. This is 2012. The distance between devs and costumers never have been this short. We can think of better systems now.

Sennar.2309:

pjdct.8176:

Live Q&A with Lead Designer Isaiah Cartwright at 6 Eastern

http://kotaku.com/5960951/the-lead-designer-of-guild-wars-2-is-answering-your-questions-right-now

And you think that he answhere any question about this change of route?

The timing is eerie.

We will see.

Hearing it 3 days ago would have given us more room to disagree and would have given them less room to say that “oh sorry we already implemented it”.

That was obviously not the goal.

cherrie.8907:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/

Translation of the German announcement on Reddit, asi see a lot of people are not aware of it.

• They are explicitly not promising that Ascended gear will be the last item tier—they don’t want to make more promises that they can be accused of breaking later (like is happening this time). They note that in GW1, new gear was added over time—not a better-statted tier, but bonus combinations that weren’t available at release, like the +energy on staves.

This really not gonna help. Are they seriously trying to make Guild Wars look similar now? Because that is a direct attack on the Guild Wars fanbase with the specific intent to feed the new GW2 fanbase with utter bs.

I see that as a fiancial suicide.

The Moment Ends.1635:

But other people do find it fun.

They do not know better.

The very premie of Guild Wars 2 was to freshen up the genre by implementing Guild Wars 1’s system into an MMO format.

The very premise of the game included completely excluding the vertical progression in it’s entirety.

It either should never have attracted the people who liked it, or should have changed them.

Namu.5712:

Hurr durr… some of you need to actually read the kitten announcements all of it.

I hope your not the columba from aion… if so that would explain a few things >.>.

From your post, it seems that apparently we were right in that defending this patch is only possible from complete ignorance.

Mega Messiah.1734:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

THE SKY IS FALLING! Oh no wait.
It’s not.

We have dissected that post long ago. It contradicts itself (and previous claims) on several levels and the writer should go be a politican intead. More money in that job.

tkalamba.2541:

We also do not know the Prototype Fractal Capacitor is even a back piece.

It is. Or a mystic forge element of the back piece.

tkalamba.2541:

you can still collect relics.

You get 5 relics per run.

A Gift of Ascension costs 500 relics.
A Simple Infusion costs 75 relics, a Versaile Infusion costs 225.
A Prototype Fractal Capacitor (backpiece) costs 1350 relics.

Loosifah.4739:

and again they never promised exotic would be the last tier.

No matter how many times you say that it’s still not gonna be true.

Several interviews and videos have been posted in this thread where they say that, and also say things regarding the legendaries and how they are gonna b the same stat as Exotics.

This change is completely new and goes against what they were saying (and pressing) for years before the game came out.

Loosifah.4739:

Why do you people always scream “You must be a WoW kid” just because we have a different opinion than you do? I’ve been playing games LONG before WoW came out and will continue to do so LONG after it finally dies the horrible death it so desperately needs to have.

Because WoW is the flagship of the geargrind philosophy.

It is more like a negative adjective that anyone really thinking that you ever played WoW. What they are saying is that people who like geargrind belong there.

phanmc.6759:

knee-jerk reaction to the public outcry for gear progression

What public outcry?

The only public outcry here is this one. Exactly in what form did those allegedly great number of people reach ArenaNet? This is the place where you talk with the developers. If somebody plays an MMO and knows what an e-mail address is, he knows what a forum is too.

There was never any outcry for progression from the gamers. This is the place where communication is possible with the devs and there was zero outcry here. There is no other method through which anyone could have achieved any kind of a meaningful result. You cannot even normally find the emal adresses of the devs wthout coming up to the man side and incidently finding the forums too.

Unless the criers were ninjas, there was no outcry.

Pants.8315:

xelynruk.6983:

There is no gap.

Exotics and Legendary’s have the exact same stat values, the only difference is a visual one, Legendary’s have extra fancy skins that is all and it was great like that.

The gap in the investment required to acquire said items, time, resources etc. Currently Exotic items require a fairly small investment, where as Legendary items require a monumental investment.

Ascended items are presumably intended to fill the investment gap between the two. i.e. they take a while longer to get than exotics, but not as long as Legendary items.

The money sink of gearing up on several tiers between exotic and legendary will only increase that gap. Which is the exact purpose of the new tier.

The only thing that Legendaries require is a high ammount of gems bought from real money, converted into gold. That is why several people already have theirs. Looking at the mystic forge and patch notes, the infusions costs are also celestial.

LordByron.8369:

I would bet to reduce server costs by having a huge part of the community to leave….

Server costs are insignificantly small in MMO’s. The combined costs of GW, Aion, Lineage, and all the others only appear on NCsoft’s yearly in a footnote.

It’s only an urban legend that they cost a lot.

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9108/nccost.jpg

It’s a very good post OP but frankly I don’t think that ArenaNet cares anymore. At least, that’s what the complete lack of feedback and the discustingly stock responses imply.

This whole “on popular demand” is just a facet. There are several “popular demands” here and on the Suggestions section that get several threads all day every day, many of them ending up on the last page without as much as “we disagree with this”, “this is a good idea” or “we will talk about it”.

I don’t think that there is a realistic possibility that they will take any suggestion seriously that doesn’t just augment their own ideas but implies that an existing system is wrong. It’s a combination of rights, ego, and fear of the supporter asking a reward for his idea.

Rusha.4725:

28 days later:

Full ascended guy:
-There is no endgame and progression in this game…

Make that 2 days.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I know it’s hard, but try to keep your ego out of this. You’ve now inferred that I am or ever was a WoW fan in both of your posts, then used that irrational springboard to make other (completely inaccurate) generalizations about the kind of player I am and how I lack the capacity to understand your elevated thought processes.

Okay. Be it. I’m gonna read the rest of your post completely normally. You seem like an intellgent fellow.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

I go way, WAY back before WoW, I would dare infer my MMO roots are much deeper than yours.

Who knows. I played EQ2, EVE, Anarchy, Lineage II for longer ammounts of times and tried out many MMO on the level of trial. And as for years, all that happened before Guild Wars. You may have a larger history but I want to hear it now. You piqued my interest. Just curiosity. No insults, ill intentions, or anything related to the argument intended.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

Next, you’re talking about Guild Wars 1. In fact when you aren’t accusing me me of being a WoW fanatic, you’re telling me how GW2 should basically be a clone of GW1.

I never said that. But when you take the balls to take the name of a francishe and put the number 2 next to it, you are obliged to at least not piss in the face of those who loved that game by doing a full 180° (And this game have done several 10° rotations already, this was only the last one.) Otherwise, use a different title for experimenting. Maybe in 2012 nothing is sacred anymore, but back in the day sequels were improvements of the a game, as that it is for every program. I do not expect Photoshop CS6 to be a CD-burner software either just because Adobe wants to experiment in that direction and decides to use the fame of the Photoshop title to sell ther kitten. Good developers do not need to do that.

Emphasis on the adjective “good”.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

You really aren’t giving me an argument. You’re just trying to proclaim anyone who disagrees with you to be: 1) stupid or incapable of understanding you, 2) a WoW fan who doesn’t understand how MMOs can function differently, and 3) not up to your standards because they don’t want Guild Wars 2 to be Guild Wars 1.

There was apparently no argument. I have went through all points of your post indvidually and in the end I only found dissatisfaction with that I allegedly considered your opinion below mine.

I did.
And I attributed it to WoW.
I’m sorry.
And I’m sorry if I offended you.

This game was hyped us as the new generation of MMORPGs, the one that will break the bad cycle of models and bring a new system to replace the old system. Everybody in Guild Warss thought that this is better than the rest of the MMORPGs, even though the game was a CORPG. And we expected it to lift what made Guild Wars good and convert it to an MMO game. That is not what happened. Then we expected that you guys will say “Why have I’ve been playing these games so far? This is so much better!”, but that is not what happened because Guild Wars 2 never succeeded in showing you why Guild Wars was good. It ended up being slightly better than the average MMO, as some would say, but it stuck inbetween Guild Wars and the average MMO level, truly cateering to none. So some people wanted it to resemble the old model and some wanted it to resemble the new.

The problem is that if they would have done it right then this should not have happened because then game would have shown you the new model first. And then nobody would have wanted the old one. Or at least, their numbers would’ve been lower.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

chronus.1326:

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

Your response to my post is nothing more than a few egregious red herrings. The only way this even relates to what I wrote is the fact that you quoted it.

But you did, however, ask me to elaborate on what fun things you have been doing in Guild Wars TWO since the beginning. You’ve been leveling up, gearing up, and exploring new content. This next patch adds more gear and more content. Sooner or later we’ll probably get more levels or pseudo-levels which constitute something of a soft-cap.

They never promised not to add new gear, and they most certainly never promised a complete lack of character progression post-80. If that was the case, I would have never bought this game. Who wants an MMO that’s all carrot and no stick? I was sold on the fact that it’s MORE carrot and LESS stick.

The funny thing is that you still don’t get it.

I don’t give a rat’s kitten about the gears. I was having the same gears through years in Guild Wars. I bought them once and kept them for years and only switched when I found a better-looking one. Gears are nothing but asthetics, parts of the “character” of your character.

Maybe you are clueless becaue you don’t know better. You don’t know anything but how to farm and grind and you have grown to like it already.

I think I can count on my ten fingers how many time I have farmed in Guild Wars. I didn1t need to. I was poor and I couldn’t afford Envoy weapons, but I never needed them and not having them didn’t make me worth any less than anyone, not even by 1%. I still did 35 out of my 50 point in HoM points, finished all four games, and completed my legendary skill hunter achivement, which was something that I was very proud of. And I have experienced and loved every… single…. aspect of the game.

So I’m sorry if your box-thinking can only allow you to see things in carrots and sticks, but the fact is that Guild Wars 2 was supposed to rescure you from that box instead of allowing you to compress it’s boundaries to the size of your box, if you get what I mean.

So I cannot blame you but I guess we can say that WoW forever doomed the mmo genre by simply existing.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

This added layer of gear allows you to keep doing the things you have been doing and loved since launch.

Ellaborate. I don’t know how it has anything to do with things like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5IUm-Dt60U
This is what we were doing in Guild Wars.

This is what you are doing in WoW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceMK9Fxz3U

I don’t see the connection.
I think you were misinterpreting Guild Wars.
Guild Wars was a game about several different levels of fun. Not illusionarry carrot progress.

Magiofdeath.2745:

I like GW1 more than GW2 because of this but I’m willing to accept changes.

Why?

As far as I have seen, this thread is filled with peope who are not willing to accept those changes, partially because they say that ArenaNet convinced them prior to the release that this is not gonna be the way. In other words, there are pleny people to stand behind here and you cannot say that your words have no weight here and that nothing can be changed.

I think that at this point I can safely say that the only reason why this thread is still running the discussion is because be do believe that something can be changed. At the very least, ANet was known to be a dev team that listened to the games throughout 7 years. Until that is proven otherwise too, we would want to believe that that mentality still exists somewhere deep there.

Roven Leafsong.8917:

Maybe I want to take up an accredited profession well away from the ‘front lines’ and become a merchant? Maybe I want to specialise in a very esoteric area of spellcraft or martial proficiency, sacrificing my overall effectiveness in exchange for taking on a very uncommon but useful role in society? Maybe I want to express my creativity, principles or knowledge in a way that allows me to share and be recognised for my contributions? Maybe I want to join a particular village or city and set down roots, have a family, build a garden, or start a cult?

This is the very reason why EVE Online works.

I am still waiting for the day when one developer will one day pull his head out of WoW’s rear, have a sudden Eureka moment, and start implementing this to the fantasy genre too.

So far I thought that ArenaNet will be that developer, but I think we can throw that out on the window now.

What’s left to await I guess is The Elder Scrolls Online. Bethesda is kind of a hit-and-miss studio but after the positive surprise that Skyrim was I think it can go either way.

Make…

The game….

Guild Wars.

There is nothing else to do.

It is not hard.

Kick the kitten of whoever is telling you otherwise.

The end.

Lothair.8942:

chronus.1326:

This is getting funnier and funnier.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Nexon-NCSoft-what-we-should-ve-seen-coming/first#post727449

Interesting how this post was deleted. Classic.

It does not matter. Everyone has all the links and sources.

This is getting funnier and funnier.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Nexon-NCSoft-what-we-should-ve-seen-coming/first#post727449

MrKnas.5193:

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:
“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

Yes, we have seen it.

It’s like a sword cut to an ocean.

Even if the system that they try to build up between exotic and legendary succeeds, it will mean that if the economy continues to rely on cash-shop-bought-gold then it will mean that even less people will get a legendary because the inbetween tiers will take away everyone’s gold. In other words, it will just end up taking away even more gold from people, while still moving away from the Guild Wars model (so I don’t even now what we are talking about).

Shilian.5873:

Guys you forgot something essential:

The gap between exo/ascen is MINIMAL, so not a MUST for WvW or anything, just for the new dungeon, and guess what? you will get the gear while progressing trough it.

Too much fap guys, no reason to go mad.

The increase between every tier in World of Warcraft is only 10%.

Ganzo.5079:

chronus.1326:

Egger.2935:

That’s enough for me..

That is a problem because there was never any statical difference between Legendary and Exotic.

They are creting it rigth now.

The entire gap never existed and if they would have had a true horizonal progression with only cosmetic differences then we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

If they want to keep the horizzontal progression they only have to make 2 things:

1) ascended gears= new skins but SAME stats of an exotics + rune, and if someone look the runes, they have the same distribution of stats. (for weapons same stats but without sigil)
2)let people to infuse the current CUSTOMIZED exotic gear

Exactly.

Update the current system, maybe change the stats of the Exotics if that’s what they want, add more runes/inscribtions/infusions, but do not add more tiers.

Actually, now that I think about it, the entire Tier system doesn’t belong into this game. It is a redundant eyecandy that will just attract more people who want vertical progression.

Egger.2935:

That’s enough for me..

That is a problem because there was never any statical difference between Legendary and Exotic.

They are creating it right now.

The entire gap never existed and if they would have had a true horizonal progression with only cosmetic differences then we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

Then there wouldn’t even be “tiers” and this entire thing wouldn’t even be possible.